Understanding the US - Again

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A_Gupta
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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby A_Gupta » 26 Nov 2019 00:17

Old story, but relevant
https://www.theatlantic.com/internation ... on/542610/
How Stalin Hid Ukraine's Famine From the World
In 1932 and 1933, millions died across the Soviet Union—and the foreign press corps helped cover up the catastrophe.

...Duranty was The New York Times correspondent in Moscow from 1922 until 1936, a role that, for a time, made him relatively rich and famous. ..

....Duranty himself discussed the famine with William Strang, a diplomat at the British embassy, in late 1932. Strang reported back drily that the New York Times correspondent had been “waking to the truth for some time,” although he had not “let the great American public into the secret.” Duranty also told Strang that he reckoned “it quite possible that as many as 10 million people may have died directly or indirectly from lack of food,” though that number never appeared in any of his reporting.


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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby disha » 26 Nov 2019 00:52

I have to respond to couple of posts. However the above needs a quick response.

1. Stalin was an equal opportunity genocidal maniac with strong upbringing in marxism-leninism a.ka stalinism.

2. That is, Stalin genocided everybody. On famine, he brought about soviet famine of 1932-33 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1932%E2%80%9333. And that famine was widespread and not just related to Ukraine.

3. The above was no different from what Brishiters wrought on India.

4. Of course, Stalin also did the 'Great Purge' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge

In a nutshell, Stalin was an equal opportunity murderer. No special love for Ukraine only if that is what you want to allude to.

All agree that Stalin was a mass-murderer. So were the Britishers, the French, the Germans, the Belgians and every colonial empire of 19th century including the Americans.

The questions you need to answer are -


1. What is America doing in Ukraine?

2. Why is America interested in Crimea? Do not the Americans remember the Charge of the light brigade? Or the Battle of Balaclava (not Baklava!)


So please answer, what is America's interest in Crimea? Why trillions of dollars are spent supporting neo-nazis in Ukraine to fight Russians in Crimea?

*As an aside, Atishi Marlena from AAP is a marxist-leninist.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Rony » 26 Nov 2019 03:05

Ilhan Omar 'working for Qatar', Florida court hears

The Democratic Congresswoman is said to have passed information to Qatar which was subsequently handed along to Iran.

The claims came during testimony by Kuwati-born Canadian businessman Alan Bender, who was giving evidence in the trial of Sheikh Khalid bin Hamad al-Thani. The Qatari emir's brother stands accused of ordering his American bodyguard to murder two people, and of holding an American citizen hostage. His deposition, obtained by Al Arabiya English, was authenticated by the attorney for the plaintiffs, according to the publication.

Speaking from Toronto by video link, Bender told the Florida District Court that he met with Qatar’s Secretary to the Emir for Security Affairs Mohammad bin Ahmed bin Abdullah al-Masnad and two other senior Qatari officials.

According to his sworn deposition, the three officials told him: “If it wasn't for our cash, Ilhan Omar would be just another black Somali refugee in America collecting welfare and serving tables on weekends."

Bender testified that the officials asked him to recruit American politicians and journalists as Qatari assets, and that when he objected, was told that several prominent figures were already on the payroll. US Congresswoman Omar was described as the "jewel in the crown," he said.

Qatar “recruited Ilhan Omar from even way before she thought about becoming a government official. […] They groomed her and arranged the foundation, the grounds, for her to get into politics way before she even showed interest. They convinced her,” he added.

The deposition shows he further told the court that, during a 2017 meeting with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, Omar swore allegiance to him. At the time she was a junior state representative in Minnesota.

Omar was said to also have passed information to Qatar which was subsequently handed along to Iran, and was actively involved in recruiting other American politicians to likewise work for Qatar, Bender testified.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby UlanBatori » 26 Nov 2019 04:24

Why do the FreeBiscuits not know about this? How can they **NOT** know? Sounds like the AA HiC: substitute Qatar for KSA.


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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby ldev » 26 Nov 2019 05:43

A_Gupta wrote:Old story, but relevant
https://www.theatlantic.com/internation ... on/542610/
How Stalin Hid Ukraine's Famine From the World
In 1932 and 1933, millions died across the Soviet Union—and the foreign press corps helped cover up the catastrophe.


My, my, this is how subtle propaganda is played.... look at the headline, "Ukraine" famine in the 1930s. It was the Soviet Union in those years but why let facts get into the way of good old fashioned propaganda. This article is written in October 2017 when the Russiagate, Russian meddling story etc. was being built up into a fever pitch by the establishment media in the US. This is quite clearly another effort to spur outrage against that "goddamn Russian dictator" starving those "poor Ukrainians" who now deserve "our" full support in their current "struggle" against the "evil Russians". I have to say that mass Western media and associated think tanks have now sunk to about the level of Pravda and Izvestia during the heydays of the USSR in terms of their credibility.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Mort Walker » 26 Nov 2019 07:01



The Tom Nichols is a never-Trumper security anal-yst by his profile.
Professor, author on Russia, war, nukes, and "The Death of Expertise." Noted curmudgeon. Cat guy. Ex-GOP and Never Trumper "human scum."


Indian food is mostly vegan and vegetarian, and it is entirely understandable if one doesn't like a particular vegetable or the use of too many spices, but condemning all Indian food is out and out racist. The fellow is no different than Stephen Miller or Steve Bannon.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby A_Gupta » 26 Nov 2019 08:02

I was highlighting not the undeniable fact of Stalins genocide, but rather the western establishment’s press’s complicity in downplaying it.

As to why the US is in Ukraine is a long story to do with the security concerns of the non-Russian areas that were under USSR’s control.

Imagine India got Independence from the UK but the UK was next door.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby A_Gupta » 26 Nov 2019 08:19

The kind of thing that would make Ukraine v. Russia an Indian concern:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.unian. ... arket.html

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Kashi » 26 Nov 2019 08:59

A_Gupta wrote:Imagine India got Independence from the UK but the UK was next door.


No need to imagine, Republic of Ireland is right there...

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby A_Gupta » 26 Nov 2019 09:10

Are Trump’s Critics Demonically Possessed?
Two of the president’s prominent evangelical supporters are literally demonizing his opponents.

It isn’t enough for Franklin Graham and Eric Metaxas, two prominent figures within the American evangelical movement, to lavish praise on President Donald Trump. They have now decided they must try to demonize his critics.
.....

Graham and Metaxas appear to believe that they, along with Donald Trump, are part of a holy crusade to rid the world of evil, wickedness, and demonic powers. What they are saying in their interview is that you either stand with them, or you stand with the forces of Satan.


https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... er/602569/

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby A_Gupta » 26 Nov 2019 09:14

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... cy/602485/
Foreign Policy Isn't Just Up To Trump
The president’s defenders argue that U.S. foreign policy is whatever he says it is. Trouble is, that’s not what the Constitution says.

Yet as the Supreme Court said pointedly just a few years back in rejecting the notion that the president is the “sole organ of the federal government in the field of international relations,” the Constitution recognizes no such “unbounded power.” On the contrary, the legislature’s power to influence and even control U.S. foreign policy decision making is vast, and certainly vast enough to support the uniform view the witnesses expressed: U.S. support for Ukraine is a central pillar of U.S. foreign policy, and the president is undermining that policy, not legitimately setting a new one.

First principles first. The Constitution expressly allocates to Congress a lengthy list of foreign-affairs-related powers, not only to declare war, but also to regulate commerce with foreign nations, define and punish offenses against the law of nations, make rules for the government and regulation of the armed forces, appropriate funds to provide for the common defense, and indeed make “all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution” any of those powers, among others.

The list of foreign-affairs powers the Constitution allocates to the president is, in contrast, quite brief and—far more important, as the Supreme Court has long and repeatedly explained—dependent “upon their disjunction or conjunction with those of Congress.” While the scope of some of the president’s powers may be reasonably broad, the president is on the thinnest possible constitutional ice when he takes steps “incompatible with” views Congress has expressly or impliedly made known. As Justice Robert H. Jackson famously explained in the Steel Seizure case during the Korean War, our constitutional equilibrium is one that ensures the president is bound by the duly enacted laws of the United States.

Far from understanding these powers to be more constrained in the realm of foreign affairs or national security, the Constitution’s Framers recognized the power to appropriate money in particular as an especially important check on the executive’s ability to exercise U.S. military power. Determined to learn from the negative example of the British military—which had quartered soldiers in private homes and clashed repeatedly with colonists—the Framers thought it essential that control over the military not be vested in an executive alone. Thus, in addition to giving Congress the power to raise, support, and regulate armies, the Constitution expressly requires members of Congress to authorize military expenditures “in the face of their constituents” every two years, ensuring that the government’s most profound power remained squarely in the hands of “the representatives of the people.” Military leaders at the time favored this approach as well, as they feared being made the political scapegoat of civilian policy decisions. When it came to matters at the core of American national security, Congress was to play a central role.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby A_Gupta » 26 Nov 2019 09:16

And

Given this history, it should be unsurprising that Congress has repeatedly enacted legislation in the modern era prohibiting the use of funds to support various U.S. military activities abroad, or setting conditions on the distribution of security assistance to allies, effectively altering the course of U.S. foreign policy. And in response, presidents have complied.

This is in part why the current president’s critical—and apparently unlawful—delay in delivering congressional authorized security assistance to Ukraine is so extraordinary. As it has done in countless other statutes, Congress insisted in the Ukraine security-assistance law that the Pentagon certify that the aid could be appropriately delivered, and the Pentagon had so certified. The Office of Management and Budget nonetheless held the delivery of those funds past the time during which there might have been any legally permissible reason to hold them, and provided no statement to Congress (as the law also required) explaining why the funds could not now be expended. In this respect, the administration violated the law. And in this respect, witness after witness has been more than justified in describing the White House conduct as, likewise, a violation of the foreign policy of the United States.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Mort Walker » 26 Nov 2019 09:37

A_Gupta wrote:I was highlighting not the undeniable fact of Stalins genocide, but rather the western establishment’s press’s complicity in downplaying it.

As to why the US is in Ukraine is a long story to do with the security concerns of the non-Russian areas that were under USSR’s control.

Imagine India got Independence from the UK but the UK was next door.



This is flawed reasoning. Ukraine has historically been part of Russian culture and it was Kruschev who rebuilt Ukraine after WWII and into the 1950s. Ukrainian and Russian languages are similar like Punjabi and Hindi with at least half the words mutually understandable. Ukraine being a separate country makes about as much sense as Khalistan being a separate country.

The US has interfered in eastern Europe for far too long with expansion of NATO since the Clinton administration. Eastern Europe is simply indefensible for the US due to geography and it makes little sense to protect corrupt countries. This nonsense has been going on for far too long. We've seen this play before, just as the US interfered in the Indian subcontinent from 1947 onwards, it armed Pakistan which is now an international liability, and has effectively destabilized the region.

It's amazing for someone who has been on BRF for a long time can't see the facts and are promoting a US partisan view point. :x

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Vayutuvan » 26 Nov 2019 10:54

A_Gupta wrote:I was highlighting not the undeniable fact of Stalins genocide, but rather the western establishment’s press’s complicity in downplaying it.

As to why the US is in Ukraine is a long story to do with the security concerns of the non-Russian areas that were under USSR’s control.

Imagine India got Independence from the UK but the UK was next door.


A_Gupta ji, moi hab a bhery bhery fundu pooch saar.

is "western establishment's press" is same same as "western press"?!

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby A_Gupta » 26 Nov 2019 13:51

E.g., “The newspaper of record” like the New York Times; such a status is conferred by the establishment. There are, or used to be, any number of other newspapers.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby A_Gupta » 26 Nov 2019 13:53

Making America Great Again by the stable genius:

"I'm curious why wasn't it done a long time ago? And also, I guess the answer to that is because now I'm president, we get things done."

President Trump signs the Woman's Suffrage Centennial Coin Act.

Video at:
https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1199 ... 74112?s=21

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby A_Gupta » 26 Nov 2019 14:01

Mort Walker wrote:
A_Gupta wrote:I was highlighting not the undeniable fact of Stalins genocide, but rather the western establishment’s press’s complicity in downplaying it.

As to why the US is in Ukraine is a long story to do with the security concerns of the non-Russian areas that were under USSR’s control.

Imagine India got Independence from the UK but the UK was next door.



This is flawed reasoning. Ukraine has historically been part of Russian culture and it was Kruschev who rebuilt Ukraine after WWII and into the 1950s. Ukrainian and Russian languages are similar like Punjabi and Hindi with at least half the words mutually understandable. Ukraine being a separate country makes about as much sense as Khalistan being a separate country.


Disagree with the last sentence. Reason: history.

The US has interfered in eastern Europe for far too long with expansion of NATO since the Clinton administration. Eastern Europe is simply indefensible for the US due to geography and it makes little sense to protect corrupt countries.


Well, an American majority thinks it is in their national interest to protect East Europe. Further all those countries want the American umbrella. In particular they want to be part of the EU and part of NATO.

This nonsense has been going on for far too long. We've seen this play before, just as the US interfered in the Indian subcontinent from 1947 onwards, it armed Pakistan which is now an international liability, and has effectively destabilized the region.

It's amazing for someone who has been on BRF for a long time can't see the facts and are promoting a US partisan view point. :x


The subject of this thread is: “Understanding the USA” not “Understanding the Indian view of the USA” is it not? How do you understand the USA without presenting their POV?

And as to partisanship, what’s with all the support of Trump? I don’t see a non-partisan view from most of the posters on this thread.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby vijayk » 26 Nov 2019 17:26

https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/4 ... dent-trump

How Democrats can build a better case to impeach Trump.

The question is whether Democrats want a real or a recreational impeachment. A real impeachment case can be made, but to make it, they will have to reschedule, reframe, and repeat their House investigation.

As compelling and upsetting as much of the testimony has been, the record still lacks direct evidence of a quid pro quo on American military aid to Ukraine. Out of all the House Intelligence Committee witnesses, European Union Ambassador Gordon Sondland was the only person to speak directly to President Trump on the issue, testifying that Trump denied any quid pro quo and that his own presumption of a quid pro quo was connected to a White House meeting with the Ukrainian president and not the aid. The transcript of the phone call between Trump and the Ukrainian president does not state a quid pro quo, and the only two other direct conversations on the record have Trump denying a quid pro quo.

While a September conversation between Trump and Sondland can be discounted as coming after the whistleblower complaint was sent to Congress, an August conversation with Senator Ron Johnson occurred before the submission. Johnson was upset with the delay in aid and, when he asked if there was a quid pro quo, he testified that the denial by Trump was “adamant, vehement, and angry” and contained “more than one expletive.” Those conflicts only highlight the still undeveloped record.


If Democrats continue with their plan to impeach Trump by the end of December, they would be presenting the thinnest record and fastest impeachment investigation in history. Democrats assert that the record is more than 2,670 pages long. In comparison, the report by Kenneth Starr to Congress summarizing the evidence in the Clinton impeachment was 445 pages, with more than 8,000 pages of supporting documents just on the part dealing with the Monica Lewinsky allegations. The grand jury record and other documents from the investigation were even larger.

Basing an impeachment on such an undeveloped record would relieve senators of the need to seriously consider the underlying alleged acts. They could vote to acquit on the basis of an incomplete record. In other words, Democrats are not just making it easy on themselves but easy on their Republican counterparts by rushing a House vote. None of this means that a case cannot be made, but it has to be proven. You cannot blame partisan voting in the Senate if you submit a record that omits key witnesses while inviting conjecture over poorly defined criminal acts.

It remains to be seen if an actual case can be proven with these witnesses, but this would be an opportunity for a real case for removal in the Senate. However, they have a year to make that case. The view that it is untoward to impeach a president close to an election is simply absurd. The election has nothing to do with an impeachment. The election is about the next term. A legitimate impeachment can happen the day before an election. That is certainly better than leaving alleged impeachable acts without a constitutional remedy. So the choice rests with the House. It has made the case that impeachable offenses may exist. Now it has to prove them.

Jonathan Turley (@JonathanTurley) is the chair of public interest law at George Washington University and served as the last lead counsel in a Senate impeachment trial in defense of Judge Thomas Porteous. He has testified with other constitutional experts in the Clinton impeachment.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby UlanBatori » 26 Nov 2019 20:14

Don't know where else to post this, but this is PROOF that all those images of Moderate Child Beheaders are Russian DeepFakes. Seriously though, it suggests that all is Maya now. One of the pioneering applications of "AI" to anticipate all the checks that we might do to spot the photoshopped cheen maal.
Adminullahs kindly post it in appropriate places including the Deleted folder as you deem fit.

Source link cannot be given sorry, it comes from UBCN's Deep State contacts. :mrgreen:

Tech Companies Are Racing To Spot Deepfakes, Which Are Getting Better

Two stories cover the race by technology companies to learn to detect deepfakes ahead of the 2020 US election. Both stories say the sophistication of deepfakes is growing as fast as tech companies can detect them. The Wall Street Journal Share to FacebookShare to Twitter (11/22, Morris, Subscription Publication) examines how companies are training software to spot deepfakes. Companies at work on the problem include Facebook, Twitter, Google, Amazon, Microsoft, and Adobe. The latter is using an authentication approach, which differs from other companies. Adobe now has a system that can append attribution to content and plans to share its technology, including in Photoshop.

The New York Times Share to FacebookShare to Twitter (11/24, Metz) has a similar story about detection efforts using artificial intelligence systems, which “learn on their own how to build fake images by analyzing thousands of real images. That means they can handle a portion of the workload that once fell to trained technicians. And that means people can create far more fake stuff than they used to.” That cycle will continue, so “the question is: Which side will improve more quickly?” The article quotes Arizona State University computer science professor Subbarao Kambhampati, who said, “Even with current technology, it is hard for some people to tell what is real and what is not.” Kambhampati also said, “In the short term, detection will be reasonably effective,” but “in the longer term, I think it will be impossible to distinguish between the real pictures and the fake pictures.”


May become v. important in this Erection Cycle in US. Effect of such things in desh media is best left to the imagination, although courtesy of WhatsApp ppl are getting a bit inured to garbage like what my relative(s) send out recently. Most recent was "New York Restaurant Gets Approval To Serve Human Flesh".

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby UlanBatori » 26 Nov 2019 20:17

And as to partisanship, what’s with all the support of Trump? I don’t see a non-partisan view from most of the posters on this thread.

I think that statement should be emblazoned on BRF. A true classic. :mrgreen:

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Vayutuvan » 26 Nov 2019 20:34

A_Gupta ji,

looks like the current thinking in the democrat establishment and their mouthpieces is that there should not be any changes in the world map. end of WW II is the epoch avert which every o e has to go through the unelected poobaah sod the UN and/or get approval from next gen heroines, grating Greta daring thunderberg.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby vijayk » 26 Nov 2019 22:05

https://theweek.com/articles/880252/dem ... -mcconnell
Democrats, don't hand impeachment to Mitch McConnell

House Democrats are about to make a big mistake. There are indications from leading House Democrats that they intend to wrap up their impeachment inquiry soon, drafting as many as four articles of impeachment against President Trump.

This is folly. Instead of bringing the hearings to a close, House Democrats should be firing subpoenas off at the White House and delaying Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell's (R-Ky.) inevitable whitewash for as long as possible.



And then, suddenly, it was over. Speaker Nancy Pelosi (Calif.) announced Friday that Democrats would not go to court to force testimony from Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, Acting Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney and former National Security Advisor John Bolton, among others. The ongoing failure to seek testimony from Giuliani himself and his various henchmen like Lev Parnas is also incomprehensible from a strategic perspective. There is some chance that their testimony could be compelled by Chief Justice John Roberts during a Senate trial, but then again there is a chance that Roberts will side with his Republican patrons.


The better path for the party would be to continue holding impeachment hearings indefinitely, while they await court rulings about the testimony of Mulvaney, Bolton, and others. Hold an impeachment hearing a week from now until next October, and pass a dozen or more articles of impeachment just before the election so McConnell never has a chance to run interference for the president.

Is there some law that says this must only be about Ukraine? Why not schedule hearings about the president's decision to order agents of the federal government to commit ongoing crimes against humanity at the U.S.-Mexico border? Why not some hearings about the Trump administration's relentless self-dealing? This is what today's ruthless Republicans would do.

For Democrats to quietly wrap up their inquiry like good little boys and girls and then wait patiently for other institutions in the American political system to do the right thing is beyond delusional.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby ArjunPandit » 26 Nov 2019 22:40

Vayutuvan wrote:A_Gupta ji,

looks like the current thinking in the democrat establishment and their mouthpieces is that there should not be any changes in the world map. end of WW II is the epoch avert which every o e has to go through the unelected poobaah sod the UN and/or get approval from next gen heroines, grating Greta daring thunderberg.

generally that is not wrong per say..but then we gotta get give freedom life and liberty to PoK, GB, CoK and incidentally get our territory back..lets prepare ourselves for the right moment...PoK is well within sights by end of next decade...COK and GB is where we'll have to wait for big events...

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby vishvak » 26 Nov 2019 22:50

lets prepare ourselves for the right moment..

Hopefully the Indian government develops vision to develop as per most high level view while keeping separate resources for battle s on way.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Mort Walker » 26 Nov 2019 23:44

A_Gupta wrote:
Disagree with the last sentence. Reason: history.


Ukraine nationalism must be within the same context similar to Belarus. The common Kiev-Rus culture, linguistics, and Eastern Orthodox Christian church puts Ukraine firmly in the sphere of Russia. There is little in common with Western Europe aside from the propaganda being espoused by the US.


Well, an American majority thinks it is in their national interest to protect East Europe. Further all those countries want the American umbrella. In particular they want to be part of the EU and part of NATO.


This is the view of the US political establishment and MIC more commonly known as the Deep State. The vast majority of Americans do not wish to go to war over the NATO states of Poland, Bulgaria, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia who are NATO members.

The subject of this thread is: “Understanding the USA” not “Understanding the Indian view of the USA” is it not? How do you understand the USA without presenting their POV?


It is not the US POV, but rather the Deep State’s POV. Remember, about half the population of the US agrees with Trump’s approach. This approach happens to coincide with the BRF world view at this time. No one here has any love for Trump or any US president. They are politicians first most who have no affinity for PIOs or Indians. Finally, this is BRF and not a CNN or MSNBC forum. You don’t like Trump? That’s okay, no one here will disagree with you, but the partisan bullshit is better suited for another forum.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Rony » 27 Nov 2019 09:22

Rony wrote:Ilhan Omar 'working for Qatar', Florida court hears

The Democratic Congresswoman is said to have passed information to Qatar which was subsequently handed along to Iran.

The claims came during testimony by Kuwati-born Canadian businessman Alan Bender, who was giving evidence in the trial of Sheikh Khalid bin Hamad al-Thani. The Qatari emir's brother stands accused of ordering his American bodyguard to murder two people, and of holding an American citizen hostage. His deposition, obtained by Al Arabiya English, was authenticated by the attorney for the plaintiffs, according to the publication.

Speaking from Toronto by video link, Bender told the Florida District Court that he met with Qatar’s Secretary to the Emir for Security Affairs Mohammad bin Ahmed bin Abdullah al-Masnad and two other senior Qatari officials.

According to his sworn deposition, the three officials told him: “If it wasn't for our cash, Ilhan Omar would be just another black Somali refugee in America collecting welfare and serving tables on weekends."

Bender testified that the officials asked him to recruit American politicians and journalists as Qatari assets, and that when he objected, was told that several prominent figures were already on the payroll. US Congresswoman Omar was described as the "jewel in the crown," he said.

Qatar “recruited Ilhan Omar from even way before she thought about becoming a government official. […] They groomed her and arranged the foundation, the grounds, for her to get into politics way before she even showed interest. They convinced her,” he added.

The deposition shows he further told the court that, during a 2017 meeting with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, Omar swore allegiance to him. At the time she was a junior state representative in Minnesota.

Omar was said to also have passed information to Qatar which was subsequently handed along to Iran, and was actively involved in recruiting other American politicians to likewise work for Qatar, Bender testified.


bdullah Al Saleh | عبدالله الصالح
@abdullahalsaleh
My name is Dr. Abdullah al-Saleh and I was the guest of the Qatari government and Prime Minister for 6 months. I learned of their operations in the West and can testify and confirm that everything Alan Bender said in his deposition regarding Rep. Ilhan Omar and Qatar is true.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Rony » 27 Nov 2019 09:26

From a desi contributor (presumably a "progressive") in Al-Guardian

Kamala Harris and Mindy Kaling's Indian cooking melted my heart – and made me cringe

While her more recent productions – Four Weddings and a Funeral, a Hulu series and remake of the 90s movie – navigate culture and identity fairly well, I felt like Kaling spent many years seemingly scrubbing her Indian identity from her projects, which were staffed almost exclusively by white writers and producers.

I feel similarly about presidential candidate Kamala Harris, who is black and Indian. On the one hand, Harris gave me goosebumps when she took Jeff Sessions, the former attorney general, to task in 2017, or in her sharp and candid dialogue with then supreme court nominee Brett Kavanaugh. On the other hand, she’s a cop, one whose agenda has sometimes clashed with the needs of brown and black communities.

In either case, neither of these women have consistently upheld or recognized their Indian identity in any significant or public way, or looked out for the south Asian community. That is, until now.

In a video-slash-PR-stunt released on their social media counts on Monday, Harris and Kaling teamed up to make masala dosas and talk about their immigrant parents, Indian food, and Besant Nagar, a neighborhood in Chennai where Kaling’s father and Harris’s mother hail from.

As we watch Harris struggle to protect her flagging campaign, it’s clear why turning to Kaling, and dosas, is important. Not only does the audience skew young and female, but the south Asian vote is 1.3 million people strong, and voter turnout among Asian Americans as a whole has sharply increased in the past decade, according to the Brookings Institution.

Meanwhile, the pool of south Asians engaged in politics is notable. Gone are the days of the occasional Bobby Jindal. Now, Washington congresswoman Pramila Jayapal is a progressive leader, and California congressman Ro Khanna represents a diverse district encompassing some of the biggest immigrant and labor issues of our time.

It makes sense, then, that we land here, in Kaling’s kitchen, figuring out whether or not cashews and peas belong in the masala, with Harris protesting, “just don’t call me auntie”. Because, as Kaling says, there is something about watching Harris on the presidential stage, despite misgivings about her potential or her politics.

She’s the kind of candidate that has the Indian diaspora meeting in the grocery store or on Twitter and reminding each other: “You know she’s Indian, right?”

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby KLNMurthy » 27 Nov 2019 09:42

A_Gupta wrote:I was highlighting not the undeniable fact of Stalins genocide, but rather the western establishment’s press’s complicity in downplaying it.

As to why the US is in Ukraine is a long story to do with the security concerns of the non-Russian areas that were under USSR’s control.

Imagine India got Independence from the UK but the UK was next door.

I am not so sure about this analogy. Isn't Ukraine supposed to be the original homeland of the Russians? If so, it would be more like, imagine if UP got too full of Ganga-Uamuna tahazeeb and broke off from India and has a troubled relationship with India?

Maybe we don't even need to go that far.

India:Kashmir :: Russia: Ukraine

More than

UK:India :: Russia:Ukraine

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby UlanBatori » 27 Nov 2019 09:44

We REALLY need some Action Thriller novels based on this stuff: it is getting beyond Hilari - us.

Here’s what Russia’s 2020 disinformation operations look like, according to two experts on social media and propaganda.
By Darren Linvill
& Patrick Warren

...Professional trolls, on the other hand, are the tip of the spear in the new digital, ideological battleground. To combat the threat they pose, we must first understand them — and take them seriously.

On August 22, 2019, @IamTyraJackson received almost 290,000 likes on Twitter for a single tweet. Put in perspective, the typical tweet President Trump sends to his 67 million followers gets about 100,000 likes. That viral tweet by @IamTyraJackson was innocent: an uplifting pair of images of former pro football player Warrick Dunn and a description of his inspiring charity work building houses for single mothers. For an anonymous account that had only existed for only a few months, “Tyra” knew her audience well. Warrick’s former coach, Tony Dungy, retweeted it, as did the rapper and producer Chuck D. Hundreds of thousands of real users viewed Tyra’s tweet and connected with its message. For “Tyra,” however, inspiring messages like this were a tool for a very different purpose.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Kashi » 27 Nov 2019 11:19

A_Gupta wrote:And as to partisanship, what’s with all the support of Trump? I don’t see a non-partisan view from most of the posters on this thread.


Of course you don't, it would be unrealistic to expect so (as you and other posters would very well understand.

This is indeed "Understanding the US" thread, BUT from an INDIAN if not entirely INDIAN NATIONALIST perspective. So it is not unexpected that claims such as

A_Gupta wrote:Well, an American majority thinks it is in their national interest to protect East Europe.


will not raise eyebrows or invite reactions from India and Indians. After all wasn't 1971 theatrics part of the same "thinking", when Americans believing it to be in their "national interests" to "protect" Pakistan, send in a naval fleet to intimidate us? A change of passport perhaps enables one to "understand" and whole-heartedly embrace this point of view, but for the "less fortunate" or "less willing" or simply the "left behinds", it does bring back discomforting memories and an unnerving question- Eastern Europe today, where else would they be willing to "extend" their "protection" tomorrow?

A_Gupta wrote: Further all those countries want the American umbrella. In particular they want to be part of the EU and part of NATO.


I'm sure an erudite and scholarly person such as yourself would not have stated those claims without solid evidence and data to back it up. Could please share some of the data which unequivocally show that these countries "want an American umbrella"?

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby A_Gupta » 27 Nov 2019 14:21

Kashi wrote:
A_Gupta wrote:And as to partisanship, what’s with all the support of Trump? I don’t see a non-partisan view from most of the posters on this thread.


Of course you don't, it would be unrealistic to expect so (as you and other posters would very well understand.

This is indeed "Understanding the US" thread, BUT from an INDIAN if not entirely INDIAN NATIONALIST perspective.


I thought that is what the India-US relations thread is for.


So it is not unexpected that claims such as

A_Gupta wrote:Well, an American majority thinks it is in their national interest to protect East Europe.


will not raise eyebrows or invite reactions from India and Indians. After all wasn't 1971 theatrics part of the same "thinking", when Americans believing it to be in their "national interests" to "protect" Pakistan, send in a naval fleet to intimidate us?


What I wrote is a fact, not a moral or other evaluation.

A change of passport perhaps enables one to "understand" and whole-heartedly embrace this point of view, but for the "less fortunate" or "less willing" or simply the "left behinds", it does bring back discomforting memories and an unnerving question- Eastern Europe today, where else would they be willing to "extend" their "protection" tomorrow?


This thread "Understanding the US" is indeed where one would try to figure out where else would American public opinion or political elite be willing to extend their protection tomorrow. You can't understand where American public opinion or political elite opinion is going if you are constantly moralizing about it. IMO, the division of threads is, e.g., on this thread one would understand e.g., what the US is likely to do next from its internal compulsions. The Inso-American relations thread would deal with how India should deal with that.

A_Gupta wrote: Further all those countries want the American umbrella. In particular they want to be part of the EU and part of NATO.


I'm sure an erudite and scholarly person such as yourself would not have stated those claims without solid evidence and data to back it up. Could please share some of the data which unequivocally show that these countries "want an American umbrella"?

[/quote]

Certainly. Try this, from 1996:
https://fas.org/man/eprint/bene.htm
The following Central and Eastern European states have indicated an interest in acceding to the NATO Treaty: Albania, Bulgaria, the Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, and Ukraine.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby A_Gupta » 27 Nov 2019 15:06

KLNMurthy wrote:I am not so sure about this analogy. Isn't Ukraine supposed to be the original homeland of the Russians? If so, it would be more like, imagine if UP got too full of Ganga-Uamuna tahazeeb and broke off from India and has a troubled relationship with India?

Maybe we don't even need to go that far.

India:Kashmir :: Russia: Ukraine

More than

UK:India :: Russia:Ukraine


Well, it is somewhere way outside of India:Kashmir. In fact, if I wanted to be hyper-irritable as is the fashion these days, I'd take that as a severe insult to India. The day India:Kashmir :: Russia: Ukraine is the day that India has no moral claim on Kashmir any more. The Russian dominated USSR killed millions of Ukrainians in an engineered famine. It is perhaps more like Pakistan:Bangladesh.

Should recall that when the Nazis invaded, the Ukrainians initially greeted them as liberators, until it became clear that the Nazis wanted to exterminate all Slavs.

Per Wiki
Ukraine emerges as the concept of a nation, and the Ukrainians as a nationality, with the Ukrainian National Revival which is believed started sometime at the end of 18th and the beginning of 19th century. According to Ukrainian historian Yaroslav Hrytsak, the first wave of national revival is traditionally connected with publication of the first part of "Eneyida" by Ivan Kotlyarevsky (1798). In 1846, in Moscow the "Istoriya Rusov ili Maloi Rossii" (History of Ruthenians or Little Russia) was published. During the Spring of Nations, in 1848 in Lemberg (Lviv)the Supreme Ruthenian Council was created which declared that Galician Ruthenians are part of the bigger Ukrainian nation. The council adopted the yellow and blue flag (Flag of Ukraine).


Via Google translate:
http://history.franko.lviv.ua/gryc_r1.htm

The main effect of the 1830s was the accelerated isolation of Ukrainian cultural identity from the all-Russian stream. The personification of the coup was a new generation of Ukrainian leaders that acted in the public arena on the verge 1830s and 1840s. The central figures of this generation were Mykola Kostomarov , Panteleimon Kulish and R echi Commonwealth . In their biographies the collective traits of a new generation of Ukrainian patriots were reflected. First of all, unlike their predecessors - the descendants of the Cossack elders - all three were of a "low" social origin: Kulish came from a family of free peasants, Kostomarovwas the illegitimate child of a Russian landowner and a Ukrainian serf, and Shevchenko was born into a serf family and by the age of 24 he was a serf. Another was their common feature is that if the first generation of leaders of national revival treated his literary and scientific studies as a kind of hobby, then Kulish , Kostomarov and Shevchenko their activities in the field of Ukrainian culture was, as if to say, quite professional in nature.

Taras Shevchenko was the most prominent figure in this triumvirate . In 1840 he published a collection of his poetry, entitled Kobzar. The significance of Kobzar's appearance went far beyond literary limits. Despite its high aesthetic values, Shevchenko's poetry differed in its language. They were not just a reproduction of the vernacular; he created it on the basis of three Ukrainian dialects (south-east, north and north-west), elements of Church-Slavic language, as well as linguistic material of earlier Ukrainian literary works. The result was a natural and simple sound that showed the genius of the poet. Shevchenko thus laid strong foundations for modern Ukrainian literature, and more broadly for Ukrainian national identity.

Even more important was the political aspect of his work. The most fruitful under this review were 1843-1845, when, after returning to Ukraine, Shevchenko wrote his most revolutionary poems - "Dream", "Caucasus", "The Great Cellar", "Both dead and alive ..." and " Will". Most of them he collected in his manuscript called "Three summers". His passionate poetry went beyond local patriotism and the mourning of a heroic past. It awakened national feelings and gave a vision of the future: if Ukraine used to enjoy the rights of an independent state in the past, then it should have been sufficient grounds for political independence in the future.

Shevchenko shifted the main blame for Ukraine's enslavement to Russia and the Russian emperors. For Shevchenko, the Russian emperors are tyrants who deprived Ukraine of freedom. Never before had Shevchenko raised his Ukrainian voices in protest against Russia . His poetry sharply rejected the conformist model of "Little Russia", which was based on the idea of ​​the inseparability of Little and Great Russia and loyalty to the emperor.

Another great merit of Shevchenko was that in his work he combined two previously separated streams of Cossack tradition - the commoner and the sergeant. His hatred of social injustice and his concern for the will and dignity of the common man were derived from his peasant origin. But with his intellectual cargo, he owed much to the influence of the Ukrainian nobility, both through their writings and personal acquaintance. Both major sections of Ukrainian society - both peasants and nobles - found something in his poetry. Shevchenko's call for simultaneous national and social liberation has become the ideological cornerstone of modern Ukraine.

Shevchenko's work is a watershed in the development of the Ukrainian idea. The later Ukrainian national movement in one way or another identified itself with Taras Shevchenko as his spiritual father. And his martyr's personal destiny served as a source for the emergence of a strong national myth that inspired the next generations of Ukrainian figures.
Last edited by A_Gupta on 27 Nov 2019 15:24, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Aditya_V » 27 Nov 2019 15:07

Yup , if read the History no way India Kashmir is anyway related to Russia and Ukraine.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Primus » 27 Nov 2019 19:44

UlanBatori wrote:We REALLY need some Action Thriller novels based on this stuff: it is getting beyond Hilari - us.

Here’s what Russia’s 2020 disinformation operations look like, according to two experts on social media and propaganda.
By Darren Linvill
& Patrick Warren

...Professional trolls, on the other hand, are the tip of the spear in the new digital, ideological battleground. To combat the threat they pose, we must first understand them — and take them seriously.

On August 22, 2019, @IamTyraJackson received almost 290,000 likes on Twitter for a single tweet. Put in perspective, the typical tweet President Trump sends to his 67 million followers gets about 100,000 likes. That viral tweet by @IamTyraJackson was innocent: an uplifting pair of images of former pro football player Warrick Dunn and a description of his inspiring charity work building houses for single mothers. For an anonymous account that had only existed for only a few months, “Tyra” knew her audience well. Warrick’s former coach, Tony Dungy, retweeted it, as did the rapper and producer Chuck D. Hundreds of thousands of real users viewed Tyra’s tweet and connected with its message. For “Tyra,” however, inspiring messages like this were a tool for a very different purpose.


Old wine in new bottles. The Russians are past masters at this. Right from the Novosti days. Before the internet they used different tactics but the ideology, the intent, the long-term goals were the same. Yuri Bezmenov's interview with Griffin is very revealing as was his book on the Novosti.

Here is a transcript of the interview from 1984, there is a link to the original video somewhere. What fascinates me is how India was manipulated just as the US was. Who knows how deep the rot went. I know from personal experience that this was a huge operation.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby vishvak » 27 Nov 2019 20:28

and that when he objected, was told that several prominent figures were already on the payroll. US Congresswoman Omar was described as the "jewel in the crown,"

Well i donno much about counter intel etc but what is important as an outsider is how to deal with propaganda that accompanies exclusive ideologies (xyz-phobia) where everything and everyone else is thrown under the bus and genuine political movements (leftism here) is kidnapped in the parliament.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby UlanBatori » 27 Nov 2019 21:17

That is a VERY serious accusation against the Hon. COTUSwimmens Omar-bibi is it not? Undeclared foreign agent. Received payment from a foreign government. Basically in their pocket.
See the case of the Sikh couple in Germany?
Has there been any reaction from the Hon, COTUSwimmens? Is she trying to wish this away or brazen it out?
(Couldn't have happened 2 a nicer person...)

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby A_Gupta » 27 Nov 2019 22:01

JAMA article:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/a ... ct/2756187

Life Expectancy and Mortality Rates in the United States, 1959-2017

Quote from the abstract:

Findings Between 1959 and 2016, US life expectancy increased from 69.9 years to 78.9 years but declined for 3 consecutive years after 2014. The recent decrease in US life expectancy culminated a period of increasing cause-specific mortality among adults aged 25 to 64 years that began in the 1990s, ultimately producing an increase in all-cause mortality that began in 2010. During 2010-2017, midlife all-cause mortality rates increased from 328.5 deaths/100 000 to 348.2 deaths/100 000. By 2014, midlife mortality was increasing across all racial groups, caused by drug overdoses, alcohol abuse, suicides, and a diverse list of organ system diseases

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby KLNMurthy » 27 Nov 2019 22:54

Aditya_V wrote:Yup , if read the History no way India Kashmir is anyway related to Russia and Ukraine.


I don't want my analogy, which I offered as an alternative to A_Gupta's original analogy, bear in mind, to be misconstrued.

Of course India didn't commit crimes in Kashmir the way USSR did in Ukraine, when it was part of the SU, and the crimes didn't necessarily target Ukraine per se. For you to focus on that aspect when defending against my challenge to the India:UK analogy is misleading.

Let me reiterate why it is questionable to compare Russia:Ukraine with India:UK. The degrees of cultural and geographical affinity involved in the two cases are so qualitatively different as to leave one surprised that such an analogy is even being made.

If I am incorrect in my belief that Kiev is considered the tribal heartland of the original Russians, I'm willing to be corrected. As to the historical quotations, I'll just note that, once there is a breach in the relationship, history can and is always revised to justify the breach and the newfound separate identity.

To explain further why I am having a problem with A_Gupta's case that good Ukraine needs NATO/Khan support against bad Russia because Stalin-Lysenko-Ukraine famine:

I believe that in some elements of Bengali lore, Shivaji and the Marathas were/are viewed as bandits/invaders/mass murderers. Hypothetically, , if tomorrow Mamata Banerjee were to declare independence, and ask for Khan support against India, would we then justify that request by pointing to Shivaji's "crimes?" (After suitably elevating the lore to history under a rejuvenated Romila Thapar, say?)

Or something closer to home for me: Andhras have a similar lore about Pindaris, who were disbanded Maratha soldiers post-Panipat. The way things are going, it is conceivable that Jagan may one day secede and, again, ask for Khan protection of Christian state of Andhra against criminal Hindu fascist state of India. Because, you see, historical crimes of Hindu Marathas against innocent Andhra villagers is already on record, it is just that yeevil yindoos concealed it so far.

I am just wondering where A_Gupta's logic would leave us in such cases.

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Re: Understanding the US - Again

Postby Cain Marko » 28 Nov 2019 00:33

Rony wrote:


bdullah Al Saleh | عبدالله الصالح
@abdullahalsaleh
My name is Dr. Abdullah al-Saleh and I was the guest of the Qatari government and Prime Minister for 6 months. I learned of their operations in the West and can testify and confirm that everything Alan Bender said in his deposition regarding Rep. Ilhan Omar and Qatar is true.

This is or should be very big. Something we always knew on BR I guess.


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