Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 19 Aug 2018 21:17

Seriously, touching. People are ppl everywhere, even Pakistan has a few humans. Monsoon reached Indus yet? It ain't over: Indian Navy may be called to fish a lot for survivors off Krachi.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 19 Aug 2018 21:21

UB Sir..

Basic dosconnect 1: The 'Bhageeratha Prayatnam' was for diverting Idukki water, not Mullaperiyar water. I feel you TL;DR my post.

Basic Disconnect 2: I described here my comments about the Mullaperiyar diversion. Apparently, you TL;DR that as well. If you have time, please read that post and comment on my concerns expressed there, which already addresses half the points you made.

If you are going to TL;DR this also, I would be obliged if you mention so.

Now, about the "overflow" concept, I would request you to ask your old mates who knows about dam design to confirm (I am not, and I would bet that you aren't either), but my belief is that dam structures are NOT designed to support overflow. There are a lot of structures on the top that are not designed (doesn't make sense to) to take flowing water. There are spillways and sluice gates to manage the water, avoiding overflows. Of course, the Maximum Water Level of Idukki is 2408 ft (while the maximum operating level is 2403), so they DID have a good margin to go before having to open the gates. But SOPs are SOPs. The operating manual gives the curves that they need to check and open the gates. The operators do not have choice there, because they are not competent enough to determine the safety. I am not sure if there is even a mechanism to overrule the manual.

It is publicly known that five generators of the six at Idukki are working. The sixth is under maintenance. KSEB may be a bunch of babus, but generation is their bread, so they do a good job of it. Once again, you are welcome to check with your mates. Anyway, KL do not have power cuts, and it is reported that we paid back the power we bought from others last year. So, unless some djinn power was available, it must have come from the 21GW installed kappakutty only.

BTW, the highest selling white goods in KL now is Air conditioners. We haven't seen any power hitch because of that.

About Mullaperiyar generating power, that place is called "Lower Base Camp", not "Lower Periyar", which is another project down the periyar system. Refer to the excellent chart posted by A_Gupta on previous page. TN is not supposed to generate power, but they do anyway. There is a strong opinion among the KL side is that we must demand share of that power, but the Babus here have their balls in the tight vice of TN, so they do not dare it seems.

>>The hydro power leg is effective only in the rainy season

Sir, the whole idea of having these dams is to store water, so that power is available round the year. Most of the systems actually run throughout the year. In fact, we have similar daily reporting of Idukki dam level in summers, where people are concerned about power cuts. However, there was zero occurrence of the system shutting down due to running out of water that I can recall.

>>but is that worth inundating fertile land for the rejerboir

Sir, you are asking the very same thing in TN during the rainy season in KL. You need to inundate the land to aquify it.

>>Question is how to divert the OVERFLOW without having to open dam doors at the height of the rains into already swollen rivers.

The answer is that you can, but at an exorbitant expense of capital, and a drastic change of agricultural patterns in TN. I am sorry. That ain't happening, even in the "first world" let alone here.

But I got to give this to you Sir. Your solution is actually "possible", unlike Habal's "use pumps to pump to ocean".

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 19 Aug 2018 21:45

habal wrote:In another heartwarming development, a group of Pakistani workers in Dubai decided to donate a single day of their wage towards the relief fund for Kerala flood victims. The generous act by these people, who are already lowly paid even by UAE standards, has touched several hearts.

Which perfectly fits to another narrative which I am currently trying to counter in some Facebook groups

. Indian Armed Forces did nothing to help Kerala, where as it was the Islamic countries who contributed their level best. Various channels are now pushing up the good work which was done by the fisherfolk from Kerala coasts (which is a good thing to do), but deliberately down playing the work done by the Armed Forces of India.

Kerala based fishermen doing all the hard work + money form Islamic sheikdoms & Pakistan; any body can figure out the drift..

.

Edit: The major part of the calamity is now over. Rescue operations have now moved to providing relief, and establishing relief camps etc. Now it is time to watch out the "political games" being played. May be we can have another thread to track those kind of information

.

vinod · Post by **vinod** » 19 Aug 2018 21:48

^^^ Exactly! Earlier it was primarily why the operation should\should not be handed over to Military. Now, the narrative being peddled is that of fishermen who did the rescue effort and not any military. On top of that, many on TV are there just to sing praises of CM!

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 19 Aug 2018 22:01

vinod wrote:^^^ Exactly! Earlier it was primarily why the operation should\should not be handed over to Military.

Some changes which happened in last 24 hours.
- Concerned authorities clearly confirmed that there is nothing called a "national disaster". Vested interests* who built stories on Central Govt. "owning" the entire rescue operations had to sit and sulk.
- It was clearly established that Armed Forces are NOT going to "take over" any thing from the civilian government. Armed Forces would only be "assisting" civil government in the area. So civilian government (and its staff) have to perform.

With the above points, it was clearly proven that Kerala Govt. has to do a good job in protecting the state's people. Dumping every thing on Central Govt. and the armed forces (under them), and then blaming them actually flopped. Then this story of Kerala people themselves doing every hard work to get the problems fixed started cropping up. So the focus was on the fishermen who did an excellent job (I will readily say they did rise up to the occasion, full 100% marks to them). Now add the usual bit of fund donations from Middle East countries, magnanimity of a few Kerala based businessmen etc.

* Today I saw a Facebook post in which some one had actually figured out the the monetary aspects if a calamity is declared as a "national disaster". It was fun reading stuff like "Money for house building - 4 lakhs (Central Govt. would pay), Money for feeding cattle - Rs. 100 for cow (Central Govt. has to pay)" etc. etc.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 19 Aug 2018 22:05

Dileepji:

Discussion is for a specific purpose, patience appreciated onlee. Many thx. I am aware that far away in dry Ulan Bator I do not share the emotional impact that is on you, surrounded by the disaster. Am leaning back in LaZBoy with feet up on a yak-dung-mound.

Agree on several things:
1) Even a few saal pehle, "KSEB" was a word that brought

But the other din I asked, and was told "KSEB is now considered the best-run org. Super-efficient" etc. Part of this is that they can buy power from other states, also because a lot of functions have been Modi-fied. Anyway, kudos to whoever cleared THAT jungle. Previous Hero Legends were all like "Big Baboon was leaning back in chair with feet on table, while "customer" was writing bribe cheque was handed over, in walks Polis, and Baboon fell right backwards with chair in shock"
2) Hydel power gen in summer obviously trades water need vs. power need. Very tough choice: apparently in Peechi the choice is that no power can be generated most of the year. This is from those who installed the system, not from chaiwallah etc.
3) True that there are no "power cuts"? Someone needs to tell ppl living in central 3-shiv-Name-istan, for instance. Power goes off every couple of hours, and stays off long enough for inverter batteries to get drained (8 hours). Only ppl with PV systems are relatively immune. A year back KSEB used to send warnings of the timings of the rolling power cut, but not any more: the power would just go off, this May-July. So I would back off on the violin concerto about KSEB on that aspect. Most urbanites in India claim that "Power is Plentiphool". Those who don't feel that way cannot be found on the Internet, Twitter etc. Wonder why.
4) Have to give credit that for the most part, even Internet stayed on through the past 2 weeks! Must have saved a lot of lives.

5) I was not suggesting anything on Idukki (except that the first set of imported gen equipment all rotted away due to the commie and congi guvrmands). : My knowledge of Idukki jio-graphee even worse there than on Mullaperiyar.

MP is on the KL-TN border, hence the love-fest. But actually the border is about 9 miles east! Hence the suggestion to cut pipes/tunnels whatever to the ridgeline, and let the water down easy on the other side, distributing via idyllic streams (let's not call them aqueducts due to twisted-undie concerns). These things will remain dry for most of the year, and maybe all year some years, but will provide a relief valve in extreme events like this year's. If the TNites can't find it in themselves to accommodate THAT level of humanity, the land there could be converted to a missile test range and commandeered by the Army. ("mijjing" mijjiles can slam into the mountain side and accidentally drill tunnels...)

Current trajectory of MP water is interesting: it runs mostly NORTH to join Periyar.
P.S. How much power DOES MP "lower base camp" generate? Maybe the reason why I listed Lower Periyar is that I could not find any entry in WikiDevata for MP power.
But your concern about "cost" is a bit premature. The cost of the present disaster is not even beginning to be comprehended: basically 70% of KL bijnej and infra has been immersed in brown poo-water flowing so fast that all the stones under rail tracks, plus entire embankments, are just gone. No EZ fix for the main rail lines.

Effect is about same as that of a Class V hurricane in Khanstan. Instead of the shoreline tidal wave we have inland torrents courtesy of KL Flood Control Dams Public Ltd. I would say, $50B in damage. Repeat and rinse 5 times in the next 25 years, rising each time? What about effect on investment? Now how does the ROI look, for a bit of supposed pain to TN arid-land farmers who don't want to be inconvenienced by free water?

BTW, Acquifer replenishment by "flooding" need be no worse than flooding a paddy field which is done routinely. That's say 1.5 feet of water over huge areas. I do not see why that is anything other than a no-brainer. Maybe entirely new crops will become feasible there. Maybe they can start vertical farming on the eastern slopes.

And...pls talk to someone at Amrita U, near Coimbatore, for instance (yes I know, that is far north of MP, but if the water can go north enough to reach Periyar, it can also be diverted to Palakkad gap and into Coimbatore?) HUGE issue of groundwater replenishment there, because they are exhausting the borewells fast. That was the same issue when Coca Cola (or was it Pepsi) tried setting up a plant.

What WOULD be useful is a reassessment of the 1789-1808 assessments where the rulers were exploring the same ideas as what I suggested, except much grander scale: to bring routine water to Madurai. How has feasibility changed? Why is the much less intrusive idea of overflow channels during arid times (August in TN is not very wet, hain? full 4 months to absorb the water before the NE Monsoon even arrives).

BTW, have you suggested your idea of generating good contour maps from Googleswara and constructing weather warning apps (besides other uses) to anyone who might run with it? I could try asking someone in the nbd, given the present newsworthiness of such efforts?

Offline pls on that.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 19 Aug 2018 22:12

Sachin & others: The WhatsApp and other social media feed that I see from Malloostan is more than duly appreciative and laudatory of the Armed Forces effort. Ppl openly crying reading those. I only saw one report of the Sultan of xyzstan sending $$. Yeah, some of the "Abdul emptied his Pakistan Bank" stories, taken by MSM from FaceBook, are pretty contrived, but I am glad to see desis getting into this mode. Learning from Murikhans no doubt. I see it as a great sign of growing societal consciousness.

In fact the reports of Supermarket Relief and Liquor Shop Relief are not seen on the social media torrent so far.
Amazingly, so far no direct blame ascribed to Modi/BJP despite clear evidence that the Depression that cause the floods came from (NDA-ruled?) Odisha Ocean. Also, failure of ISRO to provide warning that State govt einsteins were opening the dam gates in orchestral synchronization. Is UndieTV asleep or what?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 19 Aug 2018 22:18

^^^^^^^

BTW, have you suggested your idea of generating good contour maps from Googleswara and constructing weather warning apps (besides other uses) to anyone who might run with it? I could try asking someone in the nbd, given the present newsworthiness of such efforts?

I have a feeling that detailed contour maps made by the brits may be available in some dusty records office locally. May just take some searching, though.

I have seen such very detailed maps for Bangalore and was reliably given to understand that they officially existed for the entire state of KAR.

Further, the brits covered the entire country when they made such maps, giving the location of every feature, lake and natural culverts.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 19 Aug 2018 22:22

While on the topic of the wonderful KSEB, I checked something else that my Malloostan source told me about WHY KSEB is now such a happy outfit. In the 1980s KSEB was supposed to actually GENERATE power to meet KL needs. The commies made sure that demand stayed low by driving away industry and keeping the population poor. But now? KSEB's main bijnej per my source is BUYING power from other states and distributing it. It's basically a money-counting outfit. The word "generate" now does not mean turn turbine wheels in Kerala, it means "go shopping and bring it from other states". QED. This is also why they were magically cutting power in the summer/early monsoon times.

"The average power consumption in the state has almost touched 64 million units. This may rise to 80 or 82 million units in the peak of summer in March. It is expected to settle somewhere between 75 to 78 million units throughout the summer", sources in the board said. The increase in consumption should be seen in the background of the fact that 2016 witnessed the lowest inflow of water to hydel dams. Compared to water level in dams during the previous year, there is a shortage of water worth for generation of 800MU power as on Tuesday.

The Pinarayi government has already proclaimed its stand that the state cannot shy away from setting up power generation units, both hydel and thermal, for a sustainable future in the power front. According to sources, the government has given a clear go ahead to KSEB to ensure that it doesn't burn itself in the bid to ensure 24X7 power supply in the state. "The board is already suffering a whopping loss of over Rs 9,000 crore. It would be foolish for the board to go in for high cost power to tide over the power crisis that is looming large," they said. {IOW, let's not start any bad habits like doing work ourselves..}

At present, the board imports around 57 million units of power to meet the daily demand. Of this 29MU, the state get as central share and the rest is brought to the state through long, medium and short-term power purchases. "The sharp dip in rains has upset the plans the board had for this monsoon. With the capacity building works expected to get completed soon in north Kerala, the state's capacity for drawing power from other states would increase from the current 2,600MW to 2,700MW.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 19 Aug 2018 22:24

Sachin wrote:
vinod wrote:^^^ Exactly! Earlier it was primarily why the operation should\should not be handed over to Military.
Some changes which happened in last 24 hours.
- Concerned authorities clearly confirmed that there is nothing called a "national disaster". Vested interests* who built stories on Central Govt. "owning" the entire rescue operations had to sit and sulk.
- It was clearly established that Armed Forces are NOT going to "take over" any thing from the civilian government. Armed Forces would only be "assisting" civil government in the area. So civilian government (and its staff) have to perform.

With the above points, it was clearly proven that Kerala Govt. has to do a good job in protecting the state's people. Dumping every thing on Central Govt. and the armed forces (under them), and then blaming them actually flopped. Then this story of Kerala people themselves doing every hard work to get the problems fixed started cropping up. So the focus was on the fishermen who did an excellent job (I will readily say they did rise up to the occasion, full 100% marks to them). Now add the usual bit of fund donations from Middle East countries, magnanimity of a few Kerala based businessmen etc.

* Today I saw a Facebook post in which some one had actually figured out the the monetary aspects if a calamity is declared as a "national disaster". It was fun reading stuff like "Money for house building - 4 lakhs (Central Govt. would pay), Money for feeding cattle - Rs. 100 for cow (Central Govt. has to pay)" etc. etc.

BTW, there will be a hefty bill from the forces for all the expenses that they have incurred. It will be detailed and it will be given to the state govt.

This is what happened and also how people found out about the bill as it was presented to the J&K govt after their floods some years ago.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 19 Aug 2018 22:26

Brit maps may be a bit outdated for purpose of predicting flood channels, due to construction(the prevailing legend is that the floods are partly because natural retention areas such as fields are gone: certainly true where I know the geography. For instance the "burkha Billionaires" who had to be evacuated to refugees camps in lorries, were living it up in mansions built on most-probably-illegally filled paddy fields). Built on permissions bought in the early 1980s.

Probably Google3d or Google Earth is a better starting point, easily integrated.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 19 Aug 2018 22:28

^^chetak: I thought that when Centre said "100 karod releajed immediatly" it was for operations such as bringing in the C-17s and troops? They actually bill state govts?

More to the point, they billed the freeloaders of J&K?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 19 Aug 2018 22:32

UlanBatori wrote:Brit maps may be a bit outdated for purpose of predicting flood channels, due to construction(the prevailing legend is that the floods are partly because natural retention areas such as fields are gone: certainly true where I know the geography. For instance the "burkha Billionaires" who had to be evacuated to refugees camps in lorries, were living it up in mansions built on most-probably-illegally filled paddy fields). Built on permissions bought in the early 1980s.

Probably Google3d or Google Earth is a better starting point, easily integrated.

The maps are true in the sense that they show the true situation before encroachment and building activity over the years.

In case one is looking for the lay of the land to plan water drainage systems etc it will show you the best path to take to reach a specific containment or catchment area.

habal · Post by **habal** » 19 Aug 2018 22:39

talking of fishermen, here is one who literally goes down to help a few damsels in distress.

fieherman goes down on all fours to help women climb boat

The latest instance of inspiration is that of a rescue worker going down on all fours so that women victims could use his back as a step to climb a boat. This has left social media in utter awe. In the viral video, a member of the rescue team is seen nearly submerged in water because of his decision to go down on all fours. Women victims are seen using his back as a step to climb the boat.
The video was posted by journalist Shreya Dhoundial, who wrote, “Putting his back into it. Quiet literally. Jaisal KP a fisherman in Vengara puts himself in water so women and children can use his back as a step into the boat. 600 fisherman helping out in #KeralaFloods the unsung heroes. #Salute.”

. #Salutepic.twitter.com/DXo1CbKIs2
— Shreya Dhoundial (@shreyadhoundial) August 19, 2018

yensoy · Post by **yensoy** » 19 Aug 2018 22:42

Dileep wrote:Basic Disconnect 2: I described here my comments about the Mullaperiyar diversion. Apparently, you TL;DR that as well. If you have time, please read that post and comment on my concerns expressed there, which already addresses half the points you made.

New to this discussion and just saw a similar article on Rediff. I think the via media should be that TN can maintain the 142 level, except that in anticipation of high rains it would be wise to drain off to say 137 ahead of the rains so that excess storage would be available to absorb the ingress. For the sake of people on both sides of the issue I hope there is a technical study done and precise operating procedures instituted based on science alone (with a way to review/improve the process) and backed by court order. I hope this is done before monsoon 2019.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 19 Aug 2018 22:43

UlanBatori wrote:^^chetak: I thought that when Centre said "100 karod releajed immediatly" it was for operations such as bringing in the C-17s and troops? They actually bill state govts? More to the point, they billed the freeloaders of J&K?

Yes, the J&K govt tried to argue but the center simply deducted this amount from the next tranche of central funds transferred to the J&K state.

Whatever the GoI has released has gone to the state govt for their emergency expenditures for the crisis management. I think that the state asked for 1000Cr and the released amount is 900Cr

Under this govt detailed accounting is required or the funds may simply stop. One crooked CM of another south Indian state has not rendered accounts of central funds given to him so central aid has virtually dried up pending the receipt of accounts of expenditure which will then be audited by the CAG.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 19 Aug 2018 22:47

Meanwhile the Saints of Assholistan are busily at work. Even I can't believe how jerky these are. Along with the poo-waters, these EJs need to be washed away.

https://twitter.com/RajivMessage/status ... 6481042432

https://twitter.com/RajivMessage/status ... 6621076480

https://twitter.com/Eka0lavya/status/10 ... 8747451395

https://twitter.com/RajivMessage/status ... 5909683200

https://twitter.com/RajivMessage/status ... 5870151681

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 19 Aug 2018 22:50

chetak wrote:BTW, there will be a hefty bill from the forces for all the expenses that they have incurred. It will be detailed and it will be given to the state govt.

No worries, that would be used in the "agenda" which I had just mentioned in a few posts above. Sir, KL state is in a big financial mess. A state government taking Rs.2500 crore from various sources to celeberate the "state festival"; do you think they can pay off any other agency after such a calamity? What is expected is 100% funds with no questions asked.

UlanBatori wrote:I thought that when Centre said "100 karod releajed immediatly" it was for operations such as bringing in the C-17s and troops? They actually bill state govts?

From what I understand this money is released to the state government, and they can decide on how the money gets spent. But I may not be having the right information because the "national disaster" debate going on is more about funds. Who spends for what? Is it a one time grant, or loan which has to be paid back.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 19 Aug 2018 23:01

I have not verified any data from this piece but dekho. Gives some information (though accusatory of the KSEB) on dams and levels
https://sandrp.in/2018/08/10/idukki-rel ... e-avoided/

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 19 Aug 2018 23:09

Entities mentioned:
1. Bro Lazarus Mohan
2. OpenDoorsCanada
3. A good Malayali Christian householder videotaped, advising a bunch of bible-toting idiots to go do something useful like helping those in need. They try talking back and being sneery until at the end he coolly advises them that he is a good Christian himself, which is why he is spending his time coordinating calls for help and directing aid to where it is needed, and hence has no time to be sitting around reading the Bible. They leave looking a bit more aware that they are idiots.
4. WorldVision
5. Amazon.in, who are supporting WorldVision
6. The news channel

madhu trehan <madhunewslaundry@gmail.com>, Madhu Trehan <madhu@newslaundry.com>
of the dump "Newslaundry".

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 19 Aug 2018 23:20

habal wrote:

The height and depth doesn't warrant a help like this. Sorry, I have to disagree both the chappal use and the same women can park themselves on the gunwale and swing their legs in.

some stage-play perhaps here for photo exibition

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 19 Aug 2018 23:21

Prasad wrote:I have not verified any data from this piece but dekho. Gives some information (though accusatory of the KSEB) on dams and levels
https://sandrp.in/2018/08/10/idukki-rel ... e-avoided/

By the grace of ATM! Saved from Dileepji!
This is basically what I suspected by my usual GUESS technique.
Especially interesting:

In fact, basic objective of Idukki Dam is power generation. Idukki dam has six turbines with 130 MW capacity each {hence 6 x 130 = 780MW claimed, aha! }. One expected that this year Idukki power generation would have broken all records, since never before has the dam water level and inflows into the dam been so high. But when one looks at daily and monthly power generation figures from National Power Portal of Central Electricity Authority (CEA) and CEA’s own past records, one is shocked to see that during June-July 2018, Idukki generated about 325 Million Units (MU) of power, which was below power generated during at least four years in just last decade: below that in 2008, 2012, 2014 and 2015. In 2014, the highest generation year for June-July, Idukki generated over 50% more than it generated in June July 2018. If Idukki had generated more power, that could have also help reduce water level.

His data fit my (pre-determined) conclusions, so I am 400% in agreement with him. I knew that hype about Idukki is just that: hype.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 19 Aug 2018 23:25

SaiK wrote: The height and depth doesn't warrant a help like this. Sorry, I have to disagree both the chappal use and the same women can park themselves on the gunwale and swing their legs in.
some stage-play perhaps here for photo exibition

Lawd Raleigh (or was it Drake?) Queen Elizabeth redux. Except here the guy is sitting at strategic point onlee. Have you heard of the story where the Madama in skirt was in a ricksha accident? Collision: the ricksha puller fell down, the ricksha on top of him. Madama spilled over him, but got up, and promptly yanked the vehicle off the guy and saved him. Then she roared:

DID YOU SEE MY COURAGE??

Ricksha puller was not conversant in Angreji vocab, but understood "did you see" very well. He shivered and shuddered as he stammered:

yyyyyyyyyessss Madama! pliss to phorgive onlee!

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 19 Aug 2018 23:26

UlanBatori wrote:Seriously, touching. People are ppl everywhere, even Pakistan has a few humans. Monsoon reached Indus yet? It ain't over: Indian Navy may be called to fish a lot for survivors off Krachi.

. I remember the famous BRF mission statement, when it comes to pakis.

habal · Post by **habal** » 19 Aug 2018 23:26

SaiK wrote:
habal wrote:
The height and depth doesn't warrant a help like this. Sorry, I have to disagree both the chappal use and the same women can park themselves on the gunwale and swing their legs in.

some stage-play perhaps here for photo exibition

never tried climbing into a boat, a rubber dinghy to boot, from inside a foot of water. It requires some dexterity esp if climber is wearing a saree.

habal · Post by **habal** » 19 Aug 2018 23:31

Sachin will chime in to say this is a huge conspiracy ..

https://www.firstpost.com/india/uae-rea ... 1.html/amp

UAE reaching out to Kerala amid devastating floods highlights North India's apathy even more

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 19 Aug 2018 23:36

New to this discussion and just saw a similar article on Rediff. I think the via media should be that TN can maintain the 142 level, except that in anticipation of high rains it would be wise to drain off to say 137 ahead of the rains so that excess storage would be available to absorb the ingress. For the sake of people on both sides of the issue I hope there is a technical study done and precise operating procedures instituted based on science alone (with a way to review/improve the process) and backed by court order. I hope this is done before monsoon 2019.

Malloostan baboon were out kissing lawmakers' backsides when others were learning Calculus, so the term d/dt makes no sense to them. They only look at instantaneous "situation" and sit around long conference tables with polished wood and bottles of (never mind) and then go out and Implement Orders 5 hours later. Rate of change is not something they can use.

To have avoided this SNAFU, one would need a PID controller. Maybe with a little bit of adaptive learning to learn to act a few hours ahead of when things get to supercritical. There is an old Malloo saying that describes this:

Muttombol parambe anveshikkuka

That means:

Act With Great Foresight And ProActive Vision Just Like Twin-Elephant Administrators.

habal · Post by **habal** » 19 Aug 2018 23:44

Ulanbator ji, my feeling is kerala administrators have thought that like every year this year too, monsoon will be deficient and leave dam levels lower than expected and thus tried to leave in a buffer in the dam so that in event of drought conditions prevailing all over India, like during feb-may, they would have some stock of water to play around with. Because in conditions of low rainfall all over India, it is extremely difficult to buy cheap energy fron grid and whatever little electricity available on market would be priced out of reach.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 19 Aug 2018 23:46

Apparently some guy described as Suresh Kocchattil has given Malloostan something to get the blood flowing and have something to live for: to lynch him. Described as "BJP spokesperson". Someone gave him a twitter handle of #joblessPrivilegedPrick#. Very entertaining. Malloos sure write well when they are mad.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 19 Aug 2018 23:47

habal wrote:Ulanbator ji, my feeling is kerala administrators have thought that like every year this year too, monsoon will be deficient and leave dam levels lower than expected and thus tried to leave in a buffer in the dam so that in event of drought conditions prevailing all over India, like during feb-may, they would have some stock of water to play around with. Because in conditions of low rainfall all over India, it is extremely difficult to buy cheap energy fron grid and whatever little electricity available on market would be priced out of reach.

I protest at the shocking usage:

kerala administrators have thought

Seriously, after first week of June there was no call to fear monsoon shortage. Water rose to street level in mid-June, and ppl were scared. But the rain stopped just in time. Remember that circa mid-July the CM went to Dilli with begging bowl and came back abusing the PM because he didn't get enough baksheesh. That was because there was already flooding. So were the dams empty, hain?
So, no, that excuse don't wash. This is why I say that there is a strong case to indict the entire commiestani guvrmand as traitors who deliberately did this so that the hard-working middle class would have their life's work and property destroyed. Along with the poorest of the poor, of course, but then when have the commies cared about them?

Look at the reports from Idukki: apparently MSM went and camped at the foot of the dam to watch the anticipated release. They solemnly reported that just ONE gate would be opened, and that partially. But what happened instead is that ALL 5 GATES WERE OPENED FULLY. Same at other dams as well. That part is quite true, confirmed by ppl who were watching TV.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 19 Aug 2018 23:52

UlanBatori wrote:Meanwhile the Saints of Assholistan are busily at work. Even I can't believe how jerky these are. Along with the poo-waters, these EJs need to be washed away.

https://twitter.com/RajivMessage/status ... 6481042432

https://twitter.com/RajivMessage/status ... 6621076480

https://twitter.com/Eka0lavya/status/10 ... 8747451395

https://twitter.com/RajivMessage/status ... 5909683200

https://twitter.com/RajivMessage/status ... 5870151681

when you have the time, take a look at the outpourings of a creep called anna mm vetticad.(@annavetticad) and her catholic cohorts.

illuminating, to say the least.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 19 Aug 2018 23:53

WHAT CAUSED THE KERALA FLOODS? COULD WE HAVE DONE ANYTHING TO PREVENT IT?
https://www.firstpost.com/tech/news-ana ... 93041.html

habal · Post by **habal** » 20 Aug 2018 00:01

they first opened one gate at half foot, water level instead of showing decrease showed no slowing down of increase. Then in a huff two more gates were opened by same margin. And these were kept open for a day or two when MP decided to unload its 13 shutters at 2:30 AM by 6 feet. Until MP opened up, things were under control and airport was open for business. That is why you see the dravidian brotherhood as evident on TN CM facebook page comments section of Aug 16-18

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 20 Aug 2018 00:05

habal wrote:Sachin will chime in to say this is a huge conspiracy ..

https://www.firstpost.com/india/uae-rea ... 1.html/amp

UAE reaching out to Kerala amid devastating floods highlights North India's apathy even more

The RM has been on top of things pushing in more and more assets every day. Anyone who says the "north" isnt aware is smoking some seriously strong stuff.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 20 Aug 2018 00:25

can't they have rate monitoring and control? open up, and then close say every other hour? how much time it takes to open?.. based on that and flow rate, we could have some periodic control shut-off/open cycle - or just know how much you want to flow out, open up that much for the predicted rate.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 20 Aug 2018 01:11

A lot of Northern states have promised/sent very significant amounts of aid. Including J&K. In fact quite an amazing show of awakeness all round.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 20 Aug 2018 01:18

SaiK wrote:can't they have rate monitoring and control? open up, and then close say every other hour? how much time it takes to open?.. based on that and flow rate, we could have some periodic control shut-off/open cycle - or just know how much you want to flow out, open up that much for the predicted rate.

I recall one idiot opening the gates of a reservoir in vishakapatnam, in heavy rain, and hearing the huge roaring noise of the gushing waters and running away, fearing for his life.

It completely flooded the naval airport with about 10-12 feet of water and that too in the middle of the night.

The area is home to thousands upon thousands of snakes, mostly poisonous and the poor panic stricken creatures were swimming about for days on end, all trying to find shelter and keeping away from humans.

The flood waters in KER must be full of snakes too, looking for some shelter.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 20 Aug 2018 01:29

perhaps privatization of services is the answer, especially when SOPS knowledge/defects/inefficiencies, infrastructure-sense, and disaster management are not all imparted as training and management model.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 20 Aug 2018 01:45

Privatization implies responsibility as in assessing damages. I am curious to see if citjens or the insurance companies which are going to go broke otherwise, will hold KL guvrmand 100% responsible and force a good payout. Just increasing premiums may not play that well. What do u think of my rough estimate of $50B to $100B (680000 crore INR) plus the irreplaceable lives lost? Probably a gross underestimate per GUESS algorithm.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 20 Aug 2018 02:50

upon such disasters, the norm should be whoever made the decision, no matter good or bad, if it causes destruction must quit/resign/lose his job. at least some basic responsibility kicks in when he about to make that decision. these men/women will begin the process of CYA, and start seeking for better SOPS, and/or passing the buck to the authority. IOW, another way to hack into bureaucracy by throwing few dynamites on the process and organization, and use it for full citjen bunapit!