Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

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arshyam
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Post by arshyam »

Karthik S wrote:
arshyam wrote:Time to close the temple. What is a temple without the sanctity and devotees' devotion in it? Only a building with some sculptures.
A big part of me agrees with that, but that's what EJs would want, wouldn't they? What will rejoice them most, A few women entering or temple closing down?
True that, but it's the only way to show the finger to those institutions that have no respect for Indic value and belief systems. And a few other Ayappa temples will bloom eventually.

Otherwise, I don't know what's the solution. The KL govt does not want to back down, the SC shows no sign of wisdom, and the MSM (especially the Delhi+Mumbai based English media) is frothing in the mouth; how long can people keep up the protest?
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Post by fanne »

It is like saying, hey I have to breathe/think/my heart has to beat/blood has to flow every second I have to be alive, how long will I have to do it? Or I have to look out against anti-national everyday for the country to be free, how long? or A soldier on the border says I have to be guard at all times against napusnshaks sorry napakis, how long?

As long as it takes!!
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Post by Sachin »

arshyam wrote:Otherwise, I don't know what's the solution. The KL govt does not want to back down, the SC shows no sign of wisdom, and the MSM (especially the Delhi+Mumbai based English media) is frothing in the mouth; how long can people keep up the protest?
There are some signs that the KL Govt. has been shaken with the developments and have deputed the Devaswom Board to once again negotiate. But there is also a strong rumour that Trupthi Desai would be allowed to enter the hill shrine tonight (and that she is already in Kerala). News about additional police deployment, also gives a bit of credence to that news. The temple generally closes down for the day at 11:25PM, and re-opens the next day morning at 03:00Hrs. But here again there would be a question on whether Trupti Desai is a devotee or a "publicity seeker". Because a true women devotee of Ayyappa will NOT try to enter this shrine at this time.
chetak wrote:how and why is it that guys like rahul easwar always turn out to be termites, hollowing out the edifice from within??
Rahul Eswar's true intentions are really not known. He could be a "trojan horse" of the EJs. On the question why he is clean shaven etc; Rahul Eswar has NOT taken the vruth to visit the temple. Only people who do that keep a beard. Secondly, he is associated with the chief priest's family through his mother. And amongst Kerala Brahmins, a man is "attached" (or known by) to his father's family. So he really cannot claim to be really part of the family of chief priest, or even take up that post.

Mean while Kerala man in Saudi fired for `Derogatory' remarks on Sabarimala
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Post by Javee »

If devaswom board does not appeal I think the devotees should stop going to the temple. I know lakhs and Lakhs of people do viradham and hike on yearly basis but there is no easy way out. Both my father and brother have done it for 10+ years and so are a bunch of my friends and they are perturbed and confused on this whole incident.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Post by Karthik S »

fanne wrote:It is like saying, hey I have to breathe/think/my heart has to beat/blood has to flow every second I have to be alive, how long will I have to do it? Or I have to look out against anti-national everyday for the country to be free, how long? or A soldier on the border says I have to be guard at all times against napusnshaks sorry napakis, how long?

As long as it takes!!
We are not fighting here, that's a two way street, we are only defending, pleading, requesting. Anyone recall "offensive defense", what is that?
arshyam
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Post by arshyam »

fanne wrote:It is like saying, hey I have to breathe/think/my heart has to beat/blood has to flow every second I have to be alive, how long will I have to do it? Or I have to look out against anti-national everyday for the country to be free, how long? or A soldier on the border says I have to be guard at all times against napusnshaks sorry napakis, how long?

As long as it takes!!
While I understand what you are saying, as a practical matter, the protestors will have to go back to their jobs, home, etc. at some point. The GoKL will simply out-wait them and do whatever it wants to. Eventually, people will get resigned and accept the reality, as UB-saar has been trying to drill into our heads (not that I agree with him of course :)). But such an outcome will not be good for Hindu society, especially in KL. It's like fighting a defensive battle on home soil, and pulling back inch-by-inch like at Uri. Instead, closing the temple and re-opening scores elsewhere is like opening another front to take Lahore :D.
Sachin wrote:
chetak wrote:how and why is it that guys like rahul easwar always turn out to be termites, hollowing out the edifice from within??
Rahul Eswar's true intentions are really not known. He could be a "trojan horse" of the EJs. On the question why he is clean shaven etc; Rahul Eswar has NOT taken the vruth to visit the temple. Only people who do that keep a beard. Secondly, he is associated with the chief priest's family through his mother. And amongst Kerala Brahmins, a man is "attached" (or known by) to his father's family. So he really cannot claim to be really part of the family of chief priest, or even take up that post.

Mean while Kerala man in Saudi fired for `Derogatory' remarks on Sabarimala
Genuine q. Why this distrust of Rahul Eswar's intentions? What did he do? I only know him from the occasional Arnab shouting matches, where he does try to out-shout Arnab :).
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Post by Sachin »

arshyam wrote:While I understand what you are saying, as a practical matter, the protestors will have to go back to their jobs, home, etc. at some point. The GoKL will simply out-wait them and do whatever it wants to.
Sabari Mala is not a temple which opens every day. It is for the first 5 days every month, and then for a longer duration during the peak season (which is about to start now). So yes, GoKL can try to mess up things by allowing women during a very lean period, where the men devotees would not be able to put a strong protest. The chief priest can be coerced to do the "purification rituals" and carry on with the poojas etc. Actually this time around it was also the media hype which made many a devotee look-up and see the danger.
Javee wrote:If devaswom board does not appeal I think the devotees should stop going to the temple. I know lakhs and Lakhs of people do viradham and hike on yearly basis but there is no easy way out.
Not only appeal (which has already been filed by other organisations). Focus now should be to annull/byepass the court order. The Devaswom Board has already noticed that people are depositing "Save Sabari Mala" instead of donating money. That trend should continue. What needs to be done is to spread the message across all the southern states, that their belief system is now under threat.
arshyam wrote:Why this distrust of Rahul Eswar's intentions? What did he do? I only know him from the occasional Arnab shouting matches, where he does try to out-shout Arnab
He struts around as a Hindutwa activist, and got the Hadiya case completely messed up. He tried to do some "pacifying tricks" which caused further damage. Secondly, he has been trying to introduce a new character to the mythology at Sabari Mala. That is of "Velutha Achan" (white padre) who was also at Sabari Mala and was a friend of Lord Ayyappa (like how the Muslim Vaavar/Babar was a friend). That seems to be a very pro-EJ move, considering that X'ians have no connections with Sabari Mala at present.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Post by Javee »

700 crores is not a small chunk, may be it should be a state wide movement and extend to all the temples. With the SM at full swing, it's easy to spread the message. I think GoK will feel the pinch when they miss a big chunk of their revenues gone. If the church and mosques are not owned by the govt, why should the temples be.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Post by hnair »

I dont think people who are asking for closure or not donating to Sabarimala is getting the true intention of both State and Central governments.

1) If the Tantri decides to lock up the temple, the temple will be taken over by state govt in a jiffy and a new, pliable tantri appointed. Same as Dalai Llama vs Panchen Llama games. Courts will say no fundamental rights got trampled, since this is policy change and tantri is not a legal position.
2) if no donation comes to Sabarimala, the large infra bill will be footed by govt, which again gives it more control than now
3) Despite high hopes of many, current central govt has shown zero interest to local public's opinion in the matter of Sabarimala or for that matter, Padmanabha Swami Temple. Both wont be taken over by Center (a better solution than current state govt control), under the argument that both are live temples and not just national heritage sites.

Forget successive Kerala governments, last decade has been challenging times for anyone who has faith in Delhi establishment to do the right things. Sir CP Ramaswamy Iyer, the man who come up with 1936 Temple Entry Proclamation, is laughing somewhere at Delhi establishment.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Post by Javee »

Saar, if the money is not there, the govt loses interest. We have many such examples in TN. Unfortunately ntemples are state subjects, unless they are under ASI supervision. But if it's a functioning temple, it will be under state govt, like Periya Kovil in Thanjavur.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Post by UlanBatori »

Great. I want the malloostani namboothiris who have been entertaining Witzel etc with Rainmaking YAgas, to read the article that comes in NYT. More evidence that Shri A and Rsi Sabari are out to convey several lessons.
UBCNews has been trying to drill into our heads (not that I agree with them of course :)).
^+100. When one is out trailblazing with accurate predictions, one does **NOT** want agreement, any more than when buying The Winning Lottery Ticket. We r just thinking ahead N chess moves where N >1, and seeing clearly.

Note that the Poojya Comrade CM has a history including suspected (I am being PC there..) involvements in X murders, X>>1. Yet he gets elected CM of the State with the Smartest and Most Literate Electorate in the Dunia :roll: , and oh, just by chance, he IS also the Police Mantri who can request files of any cases and the associated evidence. When the files are returned, several pages and key witnesses will be at the bottom of the KaythaPuuzha Kayal, in pieces, like what happened to Adnan Khashoggi, except not with such bumbling incompetence. V r dealing with past-maestros at this.

Ppl like that don't get to be where they are, by being dummies, or by going around yelling JeeeeeeHAAAAAD! as they rush the trenches unlike some of the Bhaktas here. So far the "Devotees" have appeared quite amateurish - a characteristic of the Sadhoon who need ParitrAnam, true. But u r dealing with Dushkrtah who spend 100% of their time plotting their next moves.

Game is over by the old rules. The Devotees need to shift the goal posts and win elsewhere. The Malayarayan Maha Sabha thing has some promise, but also major dangers. They **COULD** turn that around and ban everyone from entry into tribal areas. Except EJs and Ummah who seem to have no trouble converting in tribal areas in yindoostan.

Also, some historical perspective. When the SC of USA mandated School Integration, several Holy States like AlObama and Ark&Ass stood their ground. Full support of the Holy majority populations of those states. Led by the State Governor holding a double-barrelled shotgun. In front of the gates of the schools and universities. In their traditional Bedsheet& Pointy Hat couture.

The local Polis and Sheriffs provided no protection to the Outside Agitators. As it says in bold letters now on the AlObama highway Welcome Center in front of the Potty Shrine,
WE DARE DEFEND OUR RITES
Ha! Take THAT! They told the arrogant yankee SC.

Small problem. Next week the National Guard and the 82nd Airborne, ordered by POTUS Kennedy, were accompanying the Unwelcome Entrants into schools and universities. I believe they carried machine guns and came with armored cars, maybe tanks and helicopters. Yeah, the governor was on the steps of the Capitol with his shotgun, but promptly raced into the Potty Shrine to Defend His Rites.

IOW, Malloostan could very well see the CRPF and RRF and BSF accompanying NYT reporters and Arundhoti Whineroy to the holy places.
I hope not, but entirely possible: you have to think through these games clearly and with historical perspective.
Last edited by UlanBatori on 18 Oct 2018 20:56, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Post by Javee »

habal wrote:Suhasini Raj, 46?y/o, New York Times delhi reporter and investigative journalist, native of lucknow has started the 5 km trek from pampa to temple. Police team is following her at safe distance so that no guerilla attacks are attempted on her person by 'pious' devotees.

Looks like this will be the first touchdown. She is accompanied by her male colleague who looks like Jeffrey Gettleman, delhi bureau chief of NYT.

She will most likely reach sannidhanam at 8:30 am IST.
Supposedly a Lucknowali, but calls Hanuman a monkey god. There goes her true reporter self.

https://twitter.com/suhasiniraj/status/ ... 46528?s=19
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Post by Karthik S »

UlanBatori wrote:Great. I want the malloostani namboothiris who have been entertaining Witzel etc with Rainmaking YAgas, to read the article that comes in NYT. More evidence that Shri A and Rsi Sabari are out to convey several lessons.
UBCNews has been trying to drill into our heads (not that I agree with them of course :)).
^+100. When one is out trailblazing with accurate predictions, one does **NOT** want agreement, any more than when buying The Winning Lottery Ticket. We r just thinking ahead N chess moves where N >1, and seeing clearly.

Note that the Poojya Comrade CM has a history including suspected (I am being PC there..) involvements in X murders, X>>1. Yet he gets elected CM of the State with the Smartest and Most Literate Electorate in the Dunia :roll: , and oh, just by chance, he IS also the Police Mantri who can request files of any cases and the associated evidence. When the files are returned, several pages and key witnesses will be at the bottom of the KaythaPuuzha Kayal, in pieces, like what happened to Adnan Khashoggi, except not with such bumbling incompetence. V r dealing with past-maestros at this.

Ppl like that don't get to be where they are, by being dummies, or by going around yelling JeeeeeeHAAAAAD! as they rush the trenches unlike some of the Bhaktas here. So far the "Devotees" have appeared quite amateurish - a characteristic of the Sadhoon who need ParitrAnam, true. But u r dealing with Dushkrtah who spend 100% of their time plotting their next moves.

Game is over by the old rules. The Devotees need to shift the goal posts and win elsewhere. The Malayarayan Maha Sabha thing has some promise, but also major dangers. They **COULD** turn that around and ban everyone from entry into tribal areas. Except EJs and Ummah who seem to have no trouble converting in tribal areas in yindoostan.

Also, some historical perspective. When the SC of USA mandated School Integration, several Holy States like AlObama and Ark&Ass stood their ground. Led by the State Governor holding a double-barrelled shotgun. In front of the gates of the schools and universities. In their traditional Bedsheet& Pointy Hat couture.

The local Polis and Sheriffs provided no protection to the Outside Agitators. As it says in bold letters now on the AlObama highway Welcome Center in front of the Potty Shrine,
WE DARE DEFEND OUR RITES
Ha! Take THAT! They told the arrogant yankee SC.

Small problem. Next week the National Guard and the 82nd Airborne, ordered by POTUS Kennedy, were accompanying the Unwelcome Entrants into schools and universities. I believe they carried machine guns and came with armored cars, maybe tanks and helicopters. Yeah, the governor was on the steps of the Capitol with his shotgun, but promptly raced into the Potty Shrine to Defend His Rites.

IOW, Malloostan could very well see the CRPF and RRF and BSF accompanying NYT reporters and Arundhoti Whineroy to the holy places.
I hope not, but entirely possible: you have to think through these games clearly and with historical perspective.
Like SC judge, you are viewing the situation through western prism. You mean 9th battalion Madras Regiment will escort the unwelcomes, read Tdesai, Tnow & repubic reporters into Sabarimalai? Which political party will order that? BJP? Ka and a section of Kl BJP themselves are protesting (genuinely).
I think you went too far ahead with some example from elsewhere about blatant racist discriminatory practice vs Sabaraimalai's.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Post by fanne »

True that!!
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Post by fanne »

And one big difference while POTUS there stood with dharma (all are equal), here the SC and KL govt is standing with Adharma (I will insult and trample your faith because my fake feminism is much more sacred that $hit you believe in). It was ordered by a group of nepotistic judges, who are far removed from Bharat that is NOT India and who are maculay's true products!! and is shoved by a state govt that is anti-Hindu to put it mildly.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Post by Javee »

When push comes to shove, the state will have to abide by SC judgement. Any amount of chest thumping will not solve that problem. Also, the state govt is sympathetic to SC judgement, which means they got both the trump cards. It will be a catastrophe when the young lawyers association will go back to school and file for contempt.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Post by chetak »

Javee wrote:When push comes to shove, the state will have to abide by SC judgement. Any amount of chest thumping will not solve that problem. Also, the state govt is sympathetic to SC judgement, which means they got both the trump cards. It will be a catastrophe when the young lawyers association will go back to school and file for contempt.
meanwhile, the GoI has already voiced its resentment.

SC’s rulings on matters of faith selective, feels Arun Jaitley
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Post by Karthik S »

Javee wrote:When push comes to shove, the state will have to abide by SC judgement. Any amount of chest thumping will not solve that problem. Also, the state govt is sympathetic to SC judgement, which means they got both the trump cards. It will be a catastrophe when the young lawyers association will go back to school and file for contempt.
State gov is already implementing the SC order, seems like they are being makemytrip for Tdesai now. What more you think they'll do?
Also heard CPI members are quitting because of what's happening now.
Order is one thing, enforceability is what we are talking about.
Also don't say chest thumping when thousands of devotees are bearing it all as we speak.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Post by arshyam »

Karthik S wrote:I think you went too far ahead with some example from elsewhere about blatant racist discriminatory practice vs Sabaraimalai's..
Absolutely. That example was in poor taste.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Post by hnair »

UlanBatori wrote:Small problem. Next week the National Guard and the 82nd Airborne, ordered by POTUS Kennedy, were accompanying the Unwelcome Entrants into schools and universities. I believe they carried machine guns and came with armored cars, maybe tanks and helicopters. Yeah, the governor was on the steps of the Capitol with his shotgun, but promptly raced into the Potty Shrine to Defend His Rites.

IOW, Malloostan could very well see the CRPF and RRF and BSF accompanying NYT reporters and Arundhoti Whineroy to the holy places.
I hope not, but entirely possible: you have to think through these games clearly and with historical perspective.
um... Khan loves the gun. They truly believe in "whatever is your problem, gun is the answer". That is not how India is or ever was. Only when the AK47s were shooting outwards was when even Bindranwale got halaled.... Here we are talking about elderly women and kids sitting and chanting "Swamiye Ayyappa" and you are warning them by showing an example of a large police state called US? Also two national political parties (2/3rd majority right there) supporting the agitation. No one has declared war against the Indian Union, as you are implying. Please dont make this into something this never was, because of your POV!

Bring in the CRPF and other few-letter central forces and we got a fertile base for a color revolution. Remember this is a society that has the deepest social media penetration in India, has huge diaspora outside India and vast foreign fund flow is nothing new here, as was the case in Punjab, when Indira Gandhi decided to go full-stupid....

This has to be defused via review petition route, while the state govt is asked to tone down the rhetoric of its ministers.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Post by Prasad »

How? After thomas isaac called protestors terrorists. When you hand over control of your temples to a "secular state" that has EJs you will have to beg on the streets.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Post by arvin »

The kerala govt is already acting like 82nd Airborne , forcing down its preference on the temple.
Au contraire, the central govt has been sympathetic also making a observation that SC had been selective in its judgement.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Post by hnair »

OK, so some major downhill skiing has been started by State Govt - just saw Minister Kadakampalli say they will "welcome" Devaswom Board, if a review petition is filed.... This is a major climbdown from "no need for review petition by anyone official, this verdict is as per commie manifesto"

Looks like someone in LDF finally read the intel reports that must have been lying around Secratariat, saying Malabar, till now holding out from joining the Southern Kerala fracas, is slipping out of their control.

Btw, today's hartal by Sabarimala Samrakshana Samiti was total here in Trivandrum and hardly had political backing. A huge message to all political sides about where the public stands.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Post by Javee »

here is the article by the NYT journalist,

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/18/worl ... hasini-raj
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Post by vinod »

hnair wrote:OK, so some major downhill skiing has been started by State Govt - just saw Minister Kadakampalli say they will "welcome" Devaswom Board, if a review petition is filed.... This is a major climbdown from "no need for review petition by anyone official, this verdict is as per commie manifesto"

Looks like someone in LDF finally read the intel reports that must have been lying around Secratariat, saying Malabar, till now holding out from joining the Southern Kerala fracas, is slipping out of their control.

Btw, today's hartal by Sabarimala Samrakshana Samiti was total here in Trivandrum and hardly had political backing. A huge message to all political sides about where the public stands.
I don't trust their motives. They probably want to pull a fast one when the guard is down.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Post by UlanBatori »

All uber-faithfuls, nice going, but it is getting a bit tiring. I am sure the Supreme Court will be very impressed with your fatwas. (yawn)
Yes, I knew the example from 1960s Southern US would cause a burr up the musharraf. It was used to show that the mindset if it can be called that, is pretty-much exactly the same. Enough perfectly faithful, religions, totally good people who preach
Luv thy neighbor/his wife as thine own
felt in the 1960s that they were TOTALLY right in not allowing riffraff into their schools, colleges, not to mention churches, restaurant, public restrooms, hospitals, until the SC ruled, and then the 82nd Airborne came in. The agitators then too were "old women, children, church-going saints" etc. PERFECTLY decent people.

As recently as the 1990s I have been asked by Perfectly Fair Leaders why I supported the candidacy of (the best qualified applicants) for certain positions.
What about defending "Western Culture"?
I asked them what they planned to do when the EEOC asked them what that was. You see Harvard today is trying to defend in court why they have been discriminating against people like us to protect their "diversity" and their ambience. Instead of going by merit.

The bigots always have very impressive arguments. At the end of the day they are still what they are.

The trick is to try and not get boxed into being that. By thinking of the rights of those whom you are screaming to deny rights. Maybe there are win-win solutions which Alla* won't allow you to see as long as you are yelling.

I note that Jaitley took his time coming out with what is essentially a "Miaow!" instead of some good growling and teeth-baring due 3 weeks ago, so hold ur breath for Center to come to the rescue... :roll:

That is because they cannot deny the essential inevitability of the SC judgement. Indian citizens have the right to enter public places, regardless of race, color, gender (yes, creed too but we won't go there yet). The case is that simple. Is it a public place? Then all are welcome. If it is not, well, who does it belong to? And why are they denying rights to citizens? They can be sued into destruction or tossed in jail. IOW, they can be banned from all public places.

Yelling and screaming and being Offended on Internet forums does not change that fact one bit.

If the SC judgement is dissed, those dissing it get dragged in for Contempt of Court. That is the law of the land.

If it is to be overturned, Kerala must bring an Ordinance - which will be challenged as unconstitutional. Will Center bring an Ordinance? Sorry, I don't think so. Right now, it is win-win for BeeJayPee National to let the LDF face the curses, and lose the votes. Why should they bail the commies and their voters out? If it hasn't occurred to you, India is very much a North-dominated country. They are a bit afraid of the TN ppl because of the DMK/ history of riots. No such fear of Malloos any more than Northeasterners.

Can Malloo yindoos turn this into another Vimochana Samaram? It must be evident even to the most asleep yindoo that they need to wake up and win the next election for Hindu interests, which cannot happen with CPI(M), CPI, Congress, Kerala Congress, Muslim League etc etc. It's not whether the CPI(M) is for or against present issue: it is that with CPI(M) running the govt, KL has no influence at all at Center. And KL yindoos have no influence at all anywhere even with a Hindootva govt at Center.

(If this had been, say, Somnath, the High Court would have taken 65 years to render a verdict and the SC would be pondering for the next 100). Because they are afraid of riots. No such fear of Malloo yindoos rioting. Funny thing is, wimmens are not allowed anywhere NEAR the front 3 rows when certain Holies are present (I think this is true of the Akshardham gang's Big Cheese). But no one has sued yet. Wonder how they manage that: Guj wimmens are no less assertive than Malloo wimmens. Recently for an event in Khanstan, someone tried to invite said Big Cheese. They came in with above condition. My Evil 6th Coujin showed them single-finger pranaam and told them to go sit in their Boys Club treehouse. End of story. It would have been illegal just as in Sabarimala to impose any such conditions.

If yindoo interests win the next election then they can mitigate the effects of the SC judgement with intelligent decisions. But face facts: Women between the ages of 10 and 50 will be allowed to go on pilgrimages to worship Shri A at SabariMala.

They will have the right. Whether they choose to exercise it or not, depends on (a) fear of violent yahoos or (b) devotion and decency, a sense of history and ritual etc. I think (a) will just increase their determination and kill chances for (b). Not sure at all that (b) is better long-term for anyone.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Post by Sachin »

Looks like the Kerala Govt and police will take three women to Sabari Mala this morning. The police had pretty much moved every devotee from the hill shrine yesterday itself. So a major victory for "secularism". Now the next step is to what the priest on duty, the chief priest plan to do.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Post by Pulikeshi »

UlanBatori wrote: That is because they cannot deny the essential inevitability of the SC judgement. Indian citizens have the right to enter public places, regardless of race, color, gender (yes, creed too but we won't go there yet). The case is that simple. Is it a public place? Then all are welcome. If it is not, well, who does it belong to? And why are they denying rights to citizens? They can be sued into destruction or tossed in jail. IOW, they can be banned from all public places.

Yelling and screaming and being Offended on Internet forums does not change that fact one bit.

If the SC judgement is dissed, those dissing it get dragged in for Contempt of Court. That is the law of the land.
Similar arguments were made by Slavers that the law of the land must be followed.
To quote Law & Order from yester years: Man has only those rights that he can defend :mrgreen:
The ivory tower of all such ‘law of the land aka slavery is supreme dictum’ crumbled to common sense and values.
Activist law making can never replace the considered legal arguments to be had by elected representation.
What is happening is a travesty of law - where the Supremes are religious institutions, water tribunals, municipality, etc. etc.

Women of the Wall

Many cultures, religions and civilizations have dealt with it dissimilarly, neither good nor bad, just what works for them.
UlanBatori wrote: The bigots always have very impressive arguments. At the end of the day they are still what they are.
The yelling unwashed bigots have no one standing up for them, no one telling them their belief and traditions matter.
The crushing sound of their traditional hearts - cheered on by the edumacated, ivory tower, Davos visiting, Lutyens Supremes enforcing Law!
In hindsight, there will be lament on lost traditions, but by then the sterility of comonformance and modernity would have strangled it all
Impressive sales pitch indeed: `Bigotry be gone` now sold in a bottle 10% more for 10% less!!! :P
Last edited by Pulikeshi on 19 Oct 2018 08:18, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Post by sivab »

Image

Rehana Fatima who is daring to violate Sabarimala traditions.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Post by arshyam »

Watching visuals on a Tamil news channel of some woman being escorted towards Sabarimala. Full riot gear, not a shred of appearing to go as a devotee. Heck, not even a bindi. Some devotion this, and some fundamental right we are supposed to respect. Ack thoo only.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Post by arshyam »

I'd request the Mongol to stay away from this thread for some time. Mongolia is anyway not impacted by this, and post after long unreadable post telling us unwashed natives to start washing ourselves or else, only inflame our feelings and do not contribute anything to this thread. If I didn't know better, this could be called as trolling.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Post by arshyam »

Regional channels are more sensible: they have a male reporter on the ground and are reporting with some sensitivity. Unlike a few shouters like Ornob.

Current caption on Thanthi TV: "irumudi kattamal senrukkondirukkirar Kavitha" (translation: a lady called Kavitha is heading (towards the temple) without an irumudi). The irumudi is a cloth package required to be carried on the head by the devotee, which contain offerings to Ayyappa, such as coconut, etc.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Post by sivab »

https://twitter.com/NewIndianXpress/sta ... 6427260929
The New Indian Express
‏Verified account @NewIndianXpress
5m5 minutes ago

#BREAKING | #Sabarimala IG Sreejith says the state government doesn't want to take two women to Sannidhanam. Police decide to take back the two women to Pamba. Sreejith says "we need to convince the two women about returning to Pamba," reports @ajaykanth7.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Post by sivab »

The New Indian Express
‏Verified account @NewIndianXpress
13m13 minutes ago

UPDATES | The two women are journalist Kavitha Jakkal of Hyderabad based Mojo TV and woman activist Rehana Fatima, according to ANI.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Post by chetak »

Javee wrote:When push comes to shove, the state will have to abide by SC judgement. Any amount of chest thumping will not solve that problem. Also, the state govt is sympathetic to SC judgement, which means they got both the trump cards. It will be a catastrophe when the young lawyers association will go back to school and file for contempt.
What about this SC judgement, saar??

Why has it not been implemented so far??

Why should ONLY specific and biased judgements be implemented and that too very selectively?? Isn't the SC same for all or is it different for different communities??

If it can work for a burial ground, then why not for sabari mala??
Varanasi Shia burial ground judgement of SC given aginst Sunnis is pending for implementation for 40 years. Reason given was there would be riots if SC order was implemented. The SC accepted it & stayed its own order. If it can work for burial ground why not for Temple


Doshipura area of Varanasi under siege as Shias and Sunnis spar over two Sunni graves


Doshipura area of Varanasi under siege as Shias and Sunnis spar over two Sunni graves


Men of the Provincial Armed Constabulary (PAC) are conspicuous by their presence and the local police have been strengthened with armed reinforcements. Five companies of the PAC have been pressed into service here and a battalion of the Border Security Force (BSF) remains on the alert 6 km away. Some officials confided that there are at least 70 PAC and BSF companies waiting in reserve.

The massive bandobust has a very good reason. The Supreme Court has ordered that if the long-standing dispute between Shias and Sunnis over two Sunni graves in an overwhelmingly Shia area is not amicably solved by April 27, the graves will have to be shifted. The court on March 21 permitted Suleman Sait, MP and president of the All-India Muslim League, to try and bring about a settlement by then.

Many must be hoping he will succeed, for otherwise the consequences could be disastrous. "We stand by our decision to commit mass suicide or resist the move by all means. No Sunni Muslim will allow this to happen," stormed Sunni leader Irfanul Haq Ansari of Doshipura. Many Sunnis consider the court order an anti-Islamic action. "Nobody knows who will do what. Some will commit suicide and some will attack others," added another Sunni, Dr F. Kalam.

Doshipura's Shia-Sunni dispute began in the nineteenth century (India Today, January 15) over a plot of land donated by the Maharaja of Benares for common religious use. The first case involving a dispute between the two sects was recorded in 1878 and similar disputes continued through the years.

In October 1982 a Supreme Court-appointed committee reported that the Sunnis had vehemently opposed it but shifting the two graves seemed "quite feasible". It will not be until the graves are shifted as the court has finally ordered - or if an amicable agreement is reached by April 27 - that the matter will finally have been put to rest.

However, as the administration prepared to execute the court order, Anjum Qadar, president of the All-India Shia Conference, came out with the plea that the graves should not be removed as doing so would set a bad precedent.

Moreover, he said, neither of the two parties ever demanded shifting of the graves and it was the then commissioner who had created the problem. "There are known instances of graves having been removed, but not under compulsion," he says.

But 90-year-old Shia leader of Doshipura Iqbal Hussein accused Qadar of being a stooge of the Sunnis and said the demand for the removal of the graves was the main one. "Anjum gave us Rs 3,000 in 1981 to fight the court case. Now when the court has given its final verdict he has changed his stand, and without consulting the Shias he issued the statement saying no Shia wanted shifting of the graveyard," he added.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Post by habal »

today's comedy from sabarimala

* state govt claims the two women are 'activists'

* plenty of clean shaven men seen milling around sannidhanam who are hardcore devotees.

* IG Sreejith is the latest victim and becomes a caricature
at the steps

* IG advises women to go back but atleast one seems unwilling to go back, so police is now in catch 22. Major loss of face.

* One of these wimmens is Rehana Fatima whose devotion-filled photo of plastered above.

* Tantri warns of closing the 'nada' till evening.


So do the police not know beforehand the antecedents of them wanting to do the 5k trek ??
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Post by Aditya_V »

I will be belive she and her colleague are sincere if they do a similar pilgrimage to Mecca.
Last edited by Aditya_V on 19 Oct 2018 15:24, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Post by Sachin »

habal wrote:today's comedy from sabarimala
Yes, indeed. And today is the day Hindus do their Vidyarambh. When they actually worship books and young kids start their learning.
* IG Sreejith is the latest victim and becomes a caricature at the steps
I don't think he is a victim, but a willing accomplice who work for the Communists. Rehana Fathima is a Hindu hating sw***e, who have even abused the deity. Folks like Sreejith are not just out of the Police Training College, he has been in Kerala Police for 15+ years.
* IG advises women to go back but atleast one seems unwilling to go back, so police is now in catch 22. Major loss of face.
That is Rehana Fathima - a Muslim activist and a known Hindu hater.
So do the police not know beforehand the antecedents of them wanting to do the 5k trek ??
The police knew, the communist rascals now running the show in Kerala also knew. This was I feel a well planned move to "test the waters". If the devotees were lax, their belief system would now be trampled upon. Now both the parties have exposed their cards; when the chief priest stated that he would lock up the temple and hand over the keys to the Pandalam Royal Family.

PS: These incidents also can be the "new evidence" when the review petition is taken up again. The Supreme Court should be clearly shown the evidence and ask if they are interested in "desecrating" a Hindu temple?
PPS: Many temples in Kerala have a "non-Hindus NOT allowed" board. I feel people would now know the reason behind it.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Post by Javee »

Chetak Saar,
That Varanasi example doesn't hold because there the state govt is not willing to implement it, in Sabari, the state govt will go to any extent to implement the judgement. Although, now, looks like GoK is back pedalling. I guess they didn't expect the backlash from the Hindus.

P.S some one has attacked the house of Rehana Fathima in Ernakulam. I think some one is trying.to provoke and make this a big issue.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Post by habal »

Rehana Fatima had converted (to hindu) a few months/years ago and her name is now Surya says a media source. Along with kavitha from mojo tv in hyderabad, the nameof Surya was doing the rounds since morning. Only now it was revealed that Surya was infact originally rehana fatima.

So if her new id showed her new name 'Surya', police can claim innocence.

Tantri now threatened to leave the kshetram and lock the kshetram and hand over keys to pandalam royal family if the girls make it anywhere near 18 steps.
Locked