Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

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chetak
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby chetak » 14 Nov 2018 15:42



she is desperately looking for either an assembly or a LS ticket from the congis.

She will lose her deposit.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Sachin » 14 Nov 2018 15:58

vinod wrote:One thing amongst all these, is the impact on Uniform Civil Code... If this is not handled correctly, it is going to be even more difficult to push through a uniform civil code.

Uniform Civil Code is a bridge too far; as per the Law Commission themselves. When the Sabari Mala fiasco started a few people had even suggested that give upon Sabari Mala so that it helps UCC roll out. But Keralites were smart enough to know the reality.

chetak wrote:she is desperately looking for either an assembly or a LS ticket from the congis.

A letter supposedly drafted by her is now available on some media portals. As per the letter she is expecting a 100% Kerala Govt. sponsored trip. Expecting a car to take her from airport, stay at govt. guest houses and police escort all around. But don't know if this letter is cooked up. And the catch is that she is landing on the 17th of Nov, around 32 hours after the opening of the hill shrine. By the time she lands pilgrims would already be present in sizeable numbers.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Karthik S » 14 Nov 2018 16:18

I don't care for UCC, we just need strict 2 child norm. TT etc doesn't affect me, what affects me is demographic changes.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby chetak » 14 Nov 2018 16:53

Sachin wrote:
vinod wrote:One thing amongst all these, is the impact on Uniform Civil Code... If this is not handled correctly, it is going to be even more difficult to push through a uniform civil code.

Uniform Civil Code is a bridge too far; as per the Law Commission themselves. When the Sabari Mala fiasco started a few people had even suggested that give upon Sabari Mala so that it helps UCC roll out. But Keralites were smart enough to know the reality.



The law commission reports are advisory in nature.

The inputs may/may not be considered by the govt.

It is ONLY the parliament that actually makes the laws. That is why so many BIF and offshore funded NGOs provide free "administrative" assistants and "interns" to Indian parliamentarians, ostensibly for "research" purposes but actually to covertly influence Indian legislation and slant things their way.

Many stupid Indian parliamentarians now openly accept such services. A lot of what they say and do in parliament is written out or drafted by such entities.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Prasad » 14 Nov 2018 17:07

Unless UCC invalidates all government inteference including HR&CE acts, govt takeover of mathas and temples, revokes land ceiling/redistribution enacted upon temple land holdings, it is worthless.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Sachin » 14 Nov 2018 17:17

Prasad wrote:Unless UCC invalidates all government inteference including HR&CE acts, govt takeover of mathas and temples, revokes land ceiling/redistribution enacted upon temple land holdings, it is worthless.

UCC would be taken as an Utopian/never attainable target set by the "seculars" who would use this ruse to mess up with Hindu religion more and more. The behaviour of all political parties when it comes to minority religions is now out in the open.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby chetak » 14 Nov 2018 17:23

Prasad wrote:Unless UCC invalidates all government inteference including HR&CE acts, govt takeover of mathas and temples, revokes land ceiling/redistribution enacted upon temple land holdings, it is worthless.



Are you asking for a new and improved Indian constitution 2.0??

UCC cannot and will not address all those things.

Each of those issues needs to be tackled separately by itself and I not only see where you are coming from, but I also agree with you.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Prasad » 14 Nov 2018 17:29

Sachin,
exactly. all nuances will get worded out by the UCCers without touching others.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby SaiK » 14 Nov 2018 17:51

All kinds of rogues and b!tches will become famous now. Who gets to be in free headlines. This is billion dollars or trillions worth to be the first banned woman to land at sabarimala.

This news will overshadow even first Indian on the moon should that happen in the near future.

Making the religious place unsanctimonious is a bigger even in Abrahamic institutions.

This will lead to a civil war.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby habal » 14 Nov 2018 18:53

did anyone post this news here ?


https://www.thenewsminute.com/article/s ... mily-91167

Members of the Adivasi community say that their ancestors used to perform rituals in Sabarimala until they were forcibly removed in the 19th century by the Pandalam kings.

The Mala Araya – an Adivasi community – have said that till the Pandalam kings came into the region, the Sabarimala temple was managed by them, and the rituals were performed by them.

The community has alleged that the rituals in the temple have been ‘Brahminised’, and that the community was threatened and silenced if they dared to ask questions. Now, with the Supreme Court verdict allowing entry to women of all ages into the hilltop shrine, the Mala Araya community has found new strength, and say they will take their fight forward.

The Mala Araya tribe, and the birth of Ayyappa

Mala Araya, a term derived from the word "Malai Arayan", translates in Malayalam to 'King of the Hills'. The Adivasi community is one of the largest tribal communities in the state, with around 5,000 members residing in the hills surrounding Sabarimala.

PK Sajeev, the founder and general secretary of Aikya Mala Araya Maha Sabha (AMAMS), an organisation working towards the welfare of the tribe, has researched extensively on the subject of the Sabarimala temple.

Sajeev says that Lord Ayyappa, the presiding deity at the Sabarimala temple, was born to Kandan and Karuthamma, an Adivasi couple belonging to the Mala Araya tribe, in a cave in Ponnambalamedu near the Sabarimala temple. "The Cholas were on the offensive in Kerala during this period, and there was the Chera and Ay dynasty ruling in Travancore. Kandan and Karuthamma, who belong to the Mala Araya community, went to a priest called Korman to ask him for a solution to defeat the Cholas. Korman told them to fast for 41 days, and they will get a son who will defeat the Cholas. After 41 days, Lord Ayyappa was born in a cave in Ponnambalamedu," says Sajeev.[/b]

According to Sajeev, the Mala Araya tribe stood with Ayyappa and helped fight the Cholas. "Ayyappan united the people who trained in martial arts in the region and formed a strong community,” he says.

'Ousted by Thazhamon Madom family’

The Sabarimala temple is believed to have been established in the 12th Century. Since 1950, the temple has been under the control of the Travancore Devaswom Board (TDB).

According to Sajeev, since the construction of the temple until the 19th century, it was the Mala Araya community that performed the rituals at the temple.

When the Pandalam family ruled the region in the 1800s, the Adivasi community faced violence from the rulers, Sajeev says. The Mala Arayas were driven out of their homes in the hills, and had to flee elsewhere to protect themselves, he says.

In the 1900s, the Pandalam family visited the temple and brought along their own priests from the Brahmin Thazhamon Madom family – popularly referred to as the ‘thantri family – says Sajeev, and that’s how the family got control of the rituals at the Sabarimala temple. Since then, the role of the head priest at the temple has been passed on within the Brahmin family.

"There are various temples surrounding Sabarimala including in Karimala, Nilakkal, Ponnambalamedu, Thalappara, Anaimala. They were all temples managed by the Mala Arayas, but they are all destroyed and are in a bad state now. These temples were left to die so that all traces and evidences of the presence of Mala Arayas could be wiped off and new tradition and rituals could be introduced," Sajeev says.

The Sabarimala temple, however, already had followers believing that the temple was sacred, says Sajeev. "The Pandalam royal family took over the temple by force from the Mala Arayas. They didn't take the other 18 temples in the area. but the rulers of Pandalam took over this temple and effectively sidelined the Mala Arayas," he says.

The origin of Sabarimala rituals

This birth story of Ayyappa, Sajeev says, is the reason behind the 41-day fast observed by Ayyappa devotees.

He further states that the 18 steps leading up to the temple's sanctum sanctorum, that are considered sacred, are a dedication to the 18 hills surrounding Sabarimala. "By crossing all 18 steps on the way to the shrine, it is a symbolic tribute to the 18 hills in the area".

Before the temple was Brahminised, the Mala Arayas would perform the thenabhishekam (bathing the Ayyappa idol with honey), which was replaced by the Neyyabhishekam (bathing the Ayyappa idol with ghee) by the Brahmin priests,” Sajeev says.

Sajeev says that the Mala Arayas also performed the lighting of the Makara Jyothi as a ritual at the shrine.

It is these rituals that the Adivasi community wants restored to them. However, in 2016, Rahul Easwar, the grandson of Sabarimala Thantri, filed a petition before the SC/ST Commission on behalf of deity to restore the rights of Mala Aryans to light the makaravilakku. The Thantri family however has denied that the tribes had any other rights over the temple.

Preparing to claim their right

For the Mala Arayas, the Supreme Court verdict regarding women’s entry into Sabarimala has come as a shot in the arm – although the community itself stands divided on whether women between the ages of 10 and 50 should enter the temple.

"For many years, anyone who dared to question the ownership of the temple was threatened and silenced. Now, the verdict from the Supreme Court on the entry of women to Sabarimala has given us the opportunity to talk about our rights. This is a time people will take notice of any news regarding the temple,” Sajeev says, “We are not asking for money. We are simply asking for members of our tribe to practice the rituals that our forefathers did in Sabarimala.”

The AMAMS and the Aikya Thiruvithamkoor Mala Araya Maha Sabha (ATMAMS), another organisation working for the welfare of the Mala Arayas formed in the 1950s, are planning to file a petition in the Supreme Court seeking the restoration of the tribe's rights at the Sabarimala temple and three other shrines under the control of the TDB – the Karimala, Ponnambalamedu and Nilakkal Mahadeva temples.

However, the petitions from the two organisations differ on one point – the issue of the entry of women. The ATMAMS believes that the practice of disallowing women between the ages of 10 and 50 entry into the Sabarimala temple should continue. "As we are asking for rituals and traditions to be restored at the temple, the practice of barring women in the menstruating age group should continue,” says KK Gangadharan, general secretary of the ATMAMS.

In contrast, the AMAMS does not want to question the Supreme Court's decision to allow women of all ages entry into the shrine. "If a woman in the menstruating age group goes to the temple, it must be due to her devotion to Ayyappa," says Sajeev.


So basically CPI(M) is extremely eager to play the tribal card in sabarimala case, but is extremely apprehensive and suspiscious if the tribals will do a volte face on pressure or inducement esp of a certain 'persian' since tribal are loosely organised and there is no partcular party that speaks on their behalf and their loyalties can easily be split. But whoever is advising CM mr. vijayan is keeping this at back of their mind and are not willing to give tantris and the pandalam royals an easy time. CPI(M) extremists have also played their politics in tribal areas of wynad and thus must consider this right in their ally but feel circumspect on loyalty of the hill tribes on standing with them throughout. A case of so near yet so far for the communists.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby SaiK » 14 Nov 2018 20:03

‘Trust Kerala govt to protect us’: Trupti Desai and 6 others to visit Sabarimala on Nov 17

https://www.thenewsminute.com/article/t ... v-17-91536


This news is more valuable than landing on Moon

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby UlanBatori » 14 Nov 2018 20:32

And if I were running her plans, I would schedule her visit for Nov. 15 (to-din). So that the Faithful can assemble for grand picket&protest on Nov. 17 and twiddle their thumbs while I :rotfl:
Think why the date is announced and take precautions.

If I were running the show, I would also have her state in her Brej Release which will only come out Nov 19 that she and 6 other bibis visited the shrine and could clearly see the Deity raising His hand to bless them, and smiling benevolently and in approval and congratulation. Add a couple of other Miracles, say that a tiger was seen standing by the side of the path, and wagged its tail and purred. And the wind in the trees clearly whispered:

Inquilab Zindabad!


Given that this is about Faith, such an announcement will have very significant impact. Let me cite a story that came over WhatsApp:
In Kannur Dt, there is a Bhagavati temple. The idol was stolen 3 times over a couple of years. The DySP offered to post bolis guard to prevent further theft. The Bhaktas declined. Why?

Each time the idol was returned because the thieves voluntarily returned It. The first time IT was found left near the temple. The second time they sent a note of some sort. The last time they sent a detailed letter saying where they had left it. It seems that if they carried IT they got disoriented. IT became immensely heavy. Their hands shook. Their legs became weak. They begged for forgiveness from the Bhagavati and promised never to steal again.


My questions:
1) Do you believe this?
2) Regardless of answer to (1), would you risk stealing the idol?

Q.E.D. Power of suggestion, particularly in WhatsApp-lobotomized Malloostan.
Last edited by UlanBatori on 14 Nov 2018 20:44, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby SaiK » 14 Nov 2018 20:33

If the Kerala government wants to establish “Swami Ayyappa” as a secular god, then they should make sure that the idol of Ayyappa should be installed in all mosques and churches across Kerala state.
@AmitShah @rammadhavbjp @narendramodi #SaveSabarimalaTradition #SaveSabarimala https://t.co/fGQgkSDG7S


Fair deal but that doesn't mean we have to break traditions

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Sachin » 14 Nov 2018 21:31

habal wrote:But whoever is advising CM mr. vijayan is keeping this at back of their mind and are not willing to give tantris and the pandalam royals an easy time.

The CPI(M) strategy - which to be quite frank seems to be heavily influenced by EJs - which has played out so far;
1. When the case was heard in Supreme Court, repeatedly took a stance against the traditions & faith system at Sabari Mala. They bullied the spineless Travancore Devaswom Board members to submission.
2. Next step, they tried abusing the chief priest and the royal family (using some GoKL ministers who are experts in that - Mr. Underwear & Mr. 3rd Std. pass). This was after knowing that these two entities tried to defend the existing system. The communist intelligentsia - including "traitors" from Brahmin community was then used to remind people of Brahminism, caste hegemony etc. On social media Muslims & X'ians became extremely respectful of the judiciary, and on the sanctity of the Constituition etc. From then on, they have not reduced the respect till date ;).
3. The temple opens for the first time after the verdict. Commies expected a large number of women to turn up. The CM on begging challenge was in UAE at that point of time. This was a disaster as only women who turned up were media folks and many non-Hindus. The CM and his brigade of advisors were not able to estimate the level of protest which hit the street. They change the strategy, and focuses on using the caste card and "brahminical hegemony". This is when the commies even got the Chief Minister in person to go around the state and give "explanation sessions". It is at this stage the love for tribals etc. started over-flowing. But the tribals do not have the clout like the other Hindu communities, and there are umpteen sub-groups within them. And any idea of "restoring" the temple to them was impractical, GoKL will then face a riot then and there. It was quite recently a dalit man was made a priest in a temple in Kerala. And even that man, defended the traditions of Sabari Mala :D. So the commies feared that the tribal priests would become "tantri++" when they took over.
4. The most recent strategy was to say that Sabari Mala is a "secular Hindu temple", and trying to introduce X'ian & Muslims into the game. GoKL now doubts if Sabari Mala was a budhist temple; even when all this while it has been managed by a Devaswom Board which was only for Hindu temples.

CPI(M) extremists have also played their politics in tribal areas of wynad and thus must consider this right in their ally but feel circumspect on loyalty of the hill tribes on standing with them throughout.

Tribals of Wayanad (where the Maoists have some say) are miles apart (distance wise and culturally) from the tribals of erst while Travancore. The tribal community of Kerala are not a single group. Tribals of Sabari Mala area may how ever falling into the EJ trap.

SaiK wrote:‘Trust Kerala govt to protect us’: Trupti Desai and 6 others to visit Sabarimala on Nov 17

This has already got the pilgrims riled up. But the tone of the whole letter also makes me think if this is just an "attention capturing" scheme. And the main consumers of this news being people from North India (here I include MH as well). Trupti Desai is expecting a pick up from the airport, confirmed accomodation at a hotel or govt. guest house, a wake up call at 5AM on 17th morning, and to be taken upto the temple by 0700Hrs. Off course with adequate police bandobust right from arrival all the way to departure. She does not realise the distance to be covered, plus the trek which she needs to do reach any where near the temple. Police men cannot trek on her behalf, she has to do that by herself. From the way she has planned things it is quite clear that she has no clue on the terrain at Sabari Mala, or the whole process of making a visit to this shrine. Ideally she can be clubbed as an "activist" and denied permission. Secondly, the court order does NOT talk about GoKL providing security upfront for any woman. Women can try making a visit, and if that fails use the current legal means for recourse. She shoots of letters to MH CM, KL CM and the PM. Where as the right approach was to get an order from the court.

The shrine opens in the afternoon hours of Nov 16th, as there is a pooja in the evening. So ideally the pilgrims would have already started marching in, and pitched camps at the hill temple from that day on wards.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby SaiK » 14 Nov 2018 21:50

^We need expense report tabled by @cmokerala for these protections. Not under tax payer or Hindu hundi kaanika money.

She can go jump into urrpiean sea to wash her sins

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby UlanBatori » 14 Nov 2018 22:28

IMO she will be there with the first wave of pilgrims.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby disha » 14 Nov 2018 23:50

Trupti Desai should show up as promised and is the best thing to happen to the Sabarimala protests.

A group of urban naxals do not want to see the PeeWee Mao walk away with the credit of assaulting the Malai. They want to use the stage created by PeeWee Mao to burnish their own liberal credentials. Trupti Desai and her ilk fall into that.

A group of urban naxals in media and Page 3 me too celebrities want to make money/attention/fame out of the whole show and at the same time show Hindus as luddites for their later triple-T and other equal-equal., for example rNDTV. They will come out with head lines like "First woman to make history (assaulting Malai)"., they want to get their collective orgasms as when an urban naxal goes to uranus at the escape velocity of jupiter. The nekid history sheeter and the fake marxist journo falls into this group.

Another group of commies (this is the CPI* appartchiks (or) gandhians with guns) who throw up a pavlovian bark and growl at anything Hindu and see a bhakt (and not a swami) behind every hue of Saffron. For them desecrating The Malai is a hoary goal. At the minimum it just proves their leftist secular credentials. In front of this set, Pee Wee Mao cannot see himself blinking.

Then there are the EJs. For them The Malai is the last bastion of Hindu faith. Amma & Guruvayoor is already secularized. Breaking this bastion is their goal. For them Pee Wee Mao is a useful idiot hence a useful tool. This is the group that needs to be defeated comprehensively. Here if Pee Wee is made to blink and SC also blinks., this group will be defeated for a generation. This is the group which will happily start a nihilistic war since they do believe in nihilism and blame the Swamis.

Of course, there is fluidic movement of personas among the 3 groups above. For example, A Roy is biding her time since she was used up (and chewed up as well) in the "Rafale Aircraft Carrier Scam" fiasco. Hence there is no support from the urban naxals sitting in Naarth (some of them are fighting for the survival of their nihilistic ideology in Naarth).

First two groups should get more air power, they suck away energy and strategic initiative from the third group.

Pee Wee Mao himself thinks he is the man of the season. And loves the attention. Completes it with 'Beggar Run' in Doobai.

And then there are secular Hindus who do not want to see the game through and through. For some only if BJP/RSS says the right thing at the right time, they are to be trusted otherwise everybody else in the above list is trustworthy. The rest are incorporated into sinecures like the devswom boards. They do not realize that clash of civilization has truly begun and there are several battles being fought all over the landscape. These are the people who sit and lament or feather their nests. Apologies for calling out what they are, this are the useless idiots. This group whittles one day from "mudi should rezine" to "mudi is not doing enough for hindu causes" or runs to the SC prostrating how secular the temple can be.

The only group that stands out unmaligned and bright are the the swamis. Only swamis and their Swami can save the day and the civilization. Another war has been thrust upon Swami and I am sure his swamis will carry the day. They need to make the PeeWee Mao blink first locally and later in SC.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby UlanBatori » 15 Nov 2018 01:07

My fear is that this has the potential to turn into a 1992 repeat. Most of the entities "benefit" from a descent into violence and are girding/revving up for it. No powerful conciliator/ play of good sense seen. A consequence of decades of militant corruption and utter lack of morality/decency. Neither the state or union government can be accused of providing statesmanlike guidance or leadership.

I will add to that at the great risk of trying to talk sense in a (yelling crowd): right now, only the beejaypee/arressess and bhaktas on peearef are articulating this as a civilizational issue, rather than, as M.T, Vasudevan Nair said in the (commie rag) Deshabhimani: "Fools cite yesterday's mistakes as today's tradition". A bunch of bearded yahoos standing around blocking Real Devotees from worshipping. From an outsider's pov, it is the Trupti Desais who are coming to worship and it is the Rahul Easwars and the RSS dude who are merely agitators. The Supreme Court has heard the issue in detail and delivered its verdict. They have not heard/believed/accepted the claim that this is the sharp edge of a huge civilizational struggle. Unless that point can be hammered home in both KL and in neighboring states, this will turn into both a tactical and strategic disaster. Maybe for all sides, but surely for the Bhaktas and Hindu interests in KL.

Let me point out one observation: If the "foreign influx" of Swamis from TN etc were to stop suddenly, don't count on aam malloo yindoos weeping. Enough said.
Apparently, even GoKL claims that they are a net drain on resources, though I am pretty sure the taxes and bribes and hotel/food bijnej all do a roaring trade. Plus on the way back from SM, the GoKL's main source of revenue: the govt. liquor shaaps. But even in broke Italy, they put up banners saying:
Refugees welcome. Tourists stay home!

Many in KL feel that the SM "pilgrimage" has gone way, way out of control. Want to go to Guruvayoor? Plan around when the Pilgrims are likely to be there. Same I am sure for many temples.
So they would welcome some sort of controls being put on. The SC decision threatens to DOUBLE that infux so it is not welcome, but otherwise, it comes across as a case of going from bad to worse: the whole enterprise needs a serious rollback.

This year's floods have turned an ongoing disgrace in poor facilities, into an absolute disaster. I wonder how great the Tata project is going to be - in such a short time in a place where many roads were washed away. I am told for instance that the highway between Palakkad and TCR - one of the main routes for TN-KL contact and commerce, is essentially kaput.

So if your strategy hangs on THEIR support/stubbornness, good luck, is all I can say

The Bhaktas are inexorably circling the wagons and deciding that they have only themselves as friends, need to close ranks and minds, shut out all alternative voices and do a jeehaaad. One has to ask: where is the logical evidence that this is what The Deity wants? In 2018/2019? Is it haraam for Sanatana Dharmis to wonder about logical evidence?

Unless you make the point that it is a civilizational conflict you cannot turn the tide. Right now it is Chitor against Alauddin Khilji. Masada against Rome. A mass uprising is needed to kick the besieging forces in the musharraf. Ain't coming from the Center, evidently, nor from the Supreme Court. The Con grej is fence sitting. This is of course why yindoos are in the sad state that they are in KL.

Trupti Desai is not stupid. Read her words: carefully selected. Thoughtful. Far more dangerous than a lakh-strong mob of Marxist yahoos.

So who can counter them? Answer is the matrons of KL. The yindoo middle class. Don't sit around dissing them with RSS terminology of Marx/Mullah/Macaulay: understand that they are knowledgeable, can be thoughtful and for sure they can win arguments. :eek: :shock:
How do you convince them that this is about the survival of Hinduism, and all the rakshasas are arrayed on the other side?
1) The "all religions" thing is a clear pointer.
2) The CNN invasion is another clear pointer.
3) EJ pointing to Xtian claims to the areas around SM is a clear pointer.
4) Anti-Hindu bias of the "Devaswom Boards" is a HUGE pointer.

The usual argument of WHAT ABOUT XTIAN/MUSLIM WOMEN IN CHURCHES/MOSQUES? is ***NOT*** a winning argument because those bibis are not at all protesting.

BTW, I c that the Sri Padmanabhan Khetram Case is open at the SC. What eej that? Another disaster coming? Any chance of combining/pre-emptive attack?
Last edited by UlanBatori on 15 Nov 2018 07:55, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby SaiK » 15 Nov 2018 04:17

#Kerala
JANAM TV and AMRITA TV being evicted from #Sabarimala in preparation of Operation Desecration as Trupti Desai and Gang announces plan to enter the temple.
#SabarimalaVerdict
No secular media protest. total compliance with Marxist edicts.
: https://twitter.com/PartyVillage017/sta ... 38880?s=09
https://youtu.be/

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby SSridhar » 15 Nov 2018 09:36

Police to deny agitators space at Sannidhanam - The Hindu
The Kerala Police on Wednesday appeared focussed on preventing agitators from turning the vicinity of the sanctum and the “holy steps” into a platform for anti-women protests when the Sabarimala temple opens to a potentially tempestuous Mandalam-Makaravilakku season on November 17.

Their strategy for upholding the peace seemed to be centred on denying possible agitators a chance to linger near the temple. They wanted to ensure that the outflow of pilgrims matched the inflow, thus denying committed groups intent on a direct action the opportunity to encamp at the Sannidhanam.

Ideally, the police wanted the temple authorities to shift the multiple counters that sell aravana and appam, traditional offerings at the temple, to a less sensitive locality downhill. Law enforcers were also reportedly in touch with the authorities to persuade them to distribute ghee offerings to pilgrims in a manner that did not cause long queues or gridlocks in the temple area. The Travancore Devaswom Board is likely to take a call on the proposals in consultation with other stakeholders.

A senior officer said that any protest at the Sannidhanam would severely reduce the options of the police to respond proportionately.

Tackling protesters

Organisations such the Ayyappa Dharma Sena, which is opposed to the entry of women between the “prohibited” age of 10 and 50 to Sabarimala, have declared their resolve to prevent women of childbearing age from worshipping at the predominantly male-only shrine. The police seemed to have struck on a twin-pronged strategy to weather the rough and tumble of the religiously sensitive pilgrimage season. They would focus on pre-empting and de-escalating probable law and order situations while enhancing the law enforcement’s force projection and visibility by deploying more riot-control officers and special forces personnel at the pilgrim centre.

A senior officer said the police were likely to requisition additional forces, including India Reserve Battalions, from neighbouring States when the pilgrim arrival peaks at the height of the Makaravilakku season. He said the outcome of the all party-meeting to be chaired by Chief Minister Pinarayi Vijayan on Thursday would have a bearing on the policing strategy for Sabarimala.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby SaiK » 15 Nov 2018 10:32

Isn't India’s secularism continuing with colonial anti-Hindu agenda?
https://www.mynation.com/views/india-se ... ala-pi6zvy

Sabarimala is a world-renowned Hindu temple complex in Kerala honoured as one of most sacred sites in Hinduism. It is the location of the largest annual religious pilgrimage in the world with up to 30 million devotees joining every year. Naturally, this creates some envy among competing beliefs and ideologies that may be intimidated by its prestige and pre-eminence.

  • Is Sabarimala a shrine to secularism, not to any religious group?
  • Was Sabarimala founded after 1976 when India was first proclaimed a secular state?
  • Devotees to Sabarimala are required to follow special spiritual and religious practices of an ascetic nature in order to properly enter and worship the temple and its deity. Are such ascetic practices part of secular behaviour?
  • Is Ayyappa, the deity of Sabarimala, a deity of secularism and is honouring secularism the foundation for his worship?
  • Are the priests of the temple mere secular employees of a site that has nothing to do with religion?
  • Why are regular prayers and chants occurring if Sabarimala is a secular site?
  • Should communists be able to dictate temple rights in consultation with Christians and Muslims?
  • Now we have the strange situation of communists in Kerala wanting to consult Christian and Islamic groups for their opinions on Sabarimala, even though these groups are targeting Hindus for conversion. Is converting Hindus part of a secular agenda?
  • India is still following the same policy of the colonial era of denigrating and exploiting the Hindus and trying to convert them.

Yet, the solution to this problem can only be found when Hindus protest and vote out these pseudo-secularists — who clearly have a determined anti-Hindu agenda and little respect for Hindu temples, celebrations or practices. Else, it is likely that every Hindu temple in India and every Hindu festival up to the Kumbha Mela will be eventually be targeted, regulated and restricted under such contrived secular guidelines by the same anti-Hindu forces. It is time for Hindus to take a stand and not waver.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby hnair » 15 Nov 2018 11:36

There is not even an iota of :(( about how much of a fortress a peaceful shrine is being made into!

We used to go to Sree Padmanabha Temple after 8:30 PM, to observe the Shivali ceremony in peace. We all get our views of the giant moorthi, sit in the sands and come back home. Until 10 year back, when the legals, in their infinite western-oriented wisdom, decided to teach the natives about ownership of wealth etc. Wealth never mattered, not even today. But net result is a ticket system that is a pain in the arse for those who did care about the temple and its deity :-?

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby SaiK » 15 Nov 2018 11:51

Looting the temple wealth was always the gov control agenda. How many dieties, murthis and vigrahas have been smuggled out we have no clue. At palani we dont know if the navapAshanam is still real or fake. Criminals are using advanced technology and material science to create replicas that even chinese will fail for example build a stealth fighter or tubojet engine.

Easy cultures, fragile traditions, free money, planned occupations and super soft invasions.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Sachin » 15 Nov 2018 14:15

As expected the "all party meeting" which was chaired by the Kerala CM has concluded with every one maintaining the same stance.
* CPI(M) led Kerala Govt. did not allow the Travancore Devaswom Board to even file a new petition at Hon.SC asking for some time gap to implement the verdict.
* The Congress party protests & and boycotts the meeting.
* BJP also retains the same stand. BJP state leader Adv. S. Sreedharan Pillai also lists out a whole list of verdicts from Supreme Court which has been kept in abeyance. BJP decides to stand "with the people". He says the "Ayyappa pilgrims" will go on with their protests.

Mean while; No special consideration for Trupti Desai: Kerala police. And the state's Finance Minister Thomas Issac says that the Sabari Mala issues and the campaign to stop donations to the temples will hit the state's finance. So the communists clearly know that it was the poor Ayyappa pilgrims who give a lot of revenue to the state government. The communists are just here for money.

Social media have got live feeds stating that Forest Dept. is also blocking alternate forest routes which leads to Pampa river point. Looks like the strategy is to keep only one route open, and have that fully controlled by the police.

@Dileep; are your posters out? I saw the first group of posters (in all languages) requesting pilgrims NOT to donate to the Devaswom Board Hundis.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Sachin » 15 Nov 2018 16:26

SSridhar wrote:Police to deny agitators space at Sannidhanam - The Hindu

We need to wait till tomorrow to see how these plans actually work in "operational conditions". Every pilgrim more or less will have to "linger" in the hill top for any where between 16-24 hours. Plus there are also provisions to sign up for "day long poojas" in which a person will have to stay back for more time. There is no entry route and exit route at Sabari Mala; so ideally there cannot be a situation where pilgrims come by one route and go back by another route. It has to be through the same route. Whether the police will clear one batch of pilgrims from the hill top, before the next one is sent up from Pampa; I don't know if they can do that.

A senior officer said that any protest at the Sannidhanam would severely reduce the options of the police to respond proportionately.

It is very tricky to completely sanitise the Sannidhanam area. There is a kind of level ground (a plain on a hill top), which is a must pass through area. The main temple (on a hillock with the 18 holy steps) is further up from here. That area is even of a lesser land strip. And this area also cannot be bye-passed. And all the residential facilities available at Sabari Mala hill shrine (including police barracks & a hospital) are all in this limited area. With people having the luxury to stay in such limited area, it cannot be kept completely devoid of any people.

They would focus on pre-empting and de-escalating probable law and order situations while enhancing the law enforcement’s force projection and visibility by deploying more riot-control officers and special forces personnel at the pilgrim centre.

The bolded part seems to be the only working strategy at the moment. And that is a very standard police tactic which they use in very many other situations. That is to create an impression that "police is every where, and a possible riot monger/criminal cannot escape". The main stream media etc. can be used as "force multipliers" to show that police is out in full strength and have covered all sensitive points. Add to it the deliberate highlighting of posting an RDO (Asst.Collector rank) at Sabari Mala, with executive magistrate powers to order police firing ;).

A senior officer said the police were likely to requisition additional forces, including India Reserve Battalions, from neighbouring States when the pilgrim arrival peaks at the height of the Makaravilakku season.

This is again a usual practise, and this happens year on year ;). How much of additional forces made available is yet to be seen. But at no stage of police deployment can there be a stage where pilgrims and police are in 1:1 ratio. It is impossible to also keep such a huge police contingent near Sabari Mala.

As I see it the police is working on lots of assumptions. One is that the protests would only come from Malayalis or Kerala based devotee groups. They assume that other state pilgrims can be cowed down by the police force. The police also expects every one to come pre-booked (using https://www.sabarimalaq.com/ and http://keralartc.com/ web sites). Other wise they expect every one to queue up at Nilakkal base camp and get the Q-coded token and Ke.SRTC bus tickets. Average foot fall of pilgrims is expected to be around 1 lakh, and even with expectation that 50% of them would come pre-booked the police manning the counters would have to process 50,000 pilgrims and send them up. Whether their systems & online connectivity can with stand such loads also needs to be seen. The police may be assuming that pilgrims would not use alternate trek routes to reach Pampa river point, or they plan to close all such routes.

All said and done I feel the "inflow" of pilgrims tomorrow & the day after would give clear indications on how things are faring. If the police is able to use their systems to effectively keep the crowds moving, good for them. But we must know that at Sabari Mala, there are no alternate routes to reach the holy 18 steps or the sanctum sanctorum directly. What ever routing the police does, at some point all the routes meet at a point; and from then on it is a single route.

PS: I heard that a suggestion from GoKL in today's meeting was to see if certain days in the season can be kept exclusively for women pilgrims :roll:. Sabarimala row: All-party meet ends without consensus, Congress-BJP walk out; CM says will obey SC order.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Dileep » 15 Nov 2018 17:02

There are a few things that go severely against the police.

1. It is a temple. You can't use force to evict a pilgrim who sit there peacefully. All you can do is to threaten them to arrest them once they are back to native.
2. It is inaccessible. If you move, say 10 people by force, how will you take them away? There are no motor transport.
3. Think about the logistics needed for the police force? They need to eat, sleep, crap and bathe, isn't it?

As long as the protestors use Gandhigiri, and do not break out into violence, the police can't do squat. If the get into violence, then all bets are off, and it will become a huge issue.

aThripti Desadrohi will not last one day at Pampa or Nilackal. There is no food. There are no toilets. She will have to decamp to some place like Pathanamthitta, where it wouldn't be pleasant for her. The devotees on the other hand are used to use the jungle and wash in the river. She has no clue about the geography or facilities. She thinks it is a "Pilgrim Tourist Centre" like everywhere else.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Dileep » 15 Nov 2018 17:31

Poster images for final text check. Please help to review.

Image

Image
Last edited by Dileep on 15 Nov 2018 22:27, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby arshyam » 15 Nov 2018 21:04

There seems to be a problem with the Tamil font saar. Could you pls double check?

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Sachin » 15 Nov 2018 21:29

Updates for the evening..
1. Firm on our stand, says royal family member, tantri {chief priest}. That is no women in child-bearing age should be allowed, violating the temple customs. GoKL had come up with a plan of keeping some days exclusively for women.
2. CM Pinarayi {Vijayan} says TDB can seek time from SC to implement Sabarimala verdict. This again could be a ruse to bring down the guard of the devotees. And there is no guarantee that Hon.SC would now bother to hear the TDB :roll:. And after all the mess up GoKL has dumped the heavy sack on to the head of a pliable Devaswom Board President.
3*. Cr.PC 144 imposed in four areasin & near Sabari Mala, and this time there is also a ban on Ayyappa mantra chanting protests as well.
4*. Ban on night camping @ Sannidhanam, says the DGP. He does not mention on any thing about pilgrims doing the early morning ghee abhishekam, if they are all send back down the hill the previous night. After Pampa river point, accomodation is only availble (in limited numbers) at Sannidhanam.
5*. The Kerala State Finance minister says that a messed up Sabari Mala pilgrimage season would cause a huge revenue loss to the state. The Devaswom boards would take a direct hit, but there could also be losses in indirect business associated with the pilgrimage. The Fin.Min's statement has confirmed a valid concern of pilgrims; for GoKL Sabari Mala is a cash cow; and it is revenue they are worried the most, not the rights of the pilgrims.

* - reports in Malayalam. Many malayalam news channels seems to be NOT publishing the same reports in their English versions/editions.

Dileep; I still don't trust GoKL, TDB & K.P. So I guess the Hundi challenge needs to be kick started. In the tamil message I see that some letters have been converted to small boxes (may be the font has some issue).

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Dileep » 15 Nov 2018 22:28

arshyam wrote:There seems to be a problem with the Tamil font saar. Could you pls double check?


Thanks for noticing. Fixed now.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Dileep » 15 Nov 2018 22:35

Yes, we are going full steam ahead with the Hundi challenge. Please feel free to share the images above. Spread as far and wide as possible.

This "no staying at sannidhanam" is a joke. No one is going to obey. What is the bolis going to do? Arrest 5000 people? You climb up in the evening, have darshan, and then trek back?

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Sachin » 15 Nov 2018 22:54

Dileep wrote:Yes, we are going full steam ahead with the Hundi challenge. Please feel free to share the images above. Spread as far and wide as possible.

WilCo. If possible try to cut the langauge specific tabs to individual images. It would help sending the right language message to the right group of people. I can for sure cut them into single images, but my suggestion may ease the work of others. Language specific image blocks will be lesser in size and can also be shared neatly on mobile devices. Next option would be to make it a bit eye-catching for which some voluntary effort is required.

This "no staying at sannidhanam" is a joke. No one is going to obey. What is the bolis going to do? Arrest 5000 people? You climb up in the evening, have darshan, and then trek back?

I do have some pet theories on this aspect. How ever I would "reserve my comments" till 17th Nov. It is only by then, I feel the normal flow of operations would actually start. K.P seems to be bluffing on too many things at this point of time (with the media circulating that bluff).

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby arshyam » 15 Nov 2018 23:10

Dileep wrote:
arshyam wrote:There seems to be a problem with the Tamil font saar. Could you pls double check?


Thanks for noticing. Fixed now.

Looks good now, I checked the English and Tamil versions.

Have two minor suggestions for the Hindi version:
1. Line 2 says रौंदने instead of रोकने. Maybe its intentional, but it struck me as odd.
2. Line 5 towards the end says सुवधाएं instead of सुविधाएं.

Native Hindi speakers, kindly jump in as needed.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby disha » 16 Nov 2018 00:04

Dileep saar, can you please version the document.

I think you might want to rush to production with your v1.0. As more inputs are received and more decoration is added you can add v1.1 or v2.0

Further this request should be made permanent. That is no money donation going to Devaswom boards. They can give to Thantri. Let all donations to Devaswom board dry up.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Misra » 16 Nov 2018 00:08

i suggest moving the third paragraph to the top—provide the critical ‘what’ upfront before the lengthier ‘why’

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby UlanBatori » 16 Nov 2018 03:19

there is also a ban on Ayyappa mantra chanting protests as well.

Hain? Why not sue the undies off them for THAT? That cannot stand in court, can it?

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby ramana » 16 Nov 2018 03:27

I am glad finally BRF is getting of the high chair and doing some action.
#Saranam Ayyappa.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby MurthyG » 16 Nov 2018 03:38

1. रौंदने is deliberately used saar. रोकने is stopping while रौंदने is trampling and highlights the malicious intent.
2. सुविधाएं is correct. Thank you for catching the typo
arshyam wrote:
Dileep wrote:
Thanks for noticing. Fixed now.

Looks good now, I checked the English and Tamil versions.

Have two minor suggestions for the Hindi version:
1. Line 2 says रौंदने instead of रोकने. Maybe its intentional, but it struck me as odd.
2. Line 5 towards the end says सुवधाएं instead of सुविधाएं.

Native Hindi speakers, kindly jump in as needed.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Dileep » 16 Nov 2018 06:14

Ravikr did a fantabulous job of DTP for Kannada, and volunteered to do the rest. I think English+one local language is a good format.

Image

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby SriKumar » 16 Nov 2018 06:35

In the English version, words facilities and decades are misspelled. Further it say 'money weout in the hundi'....for money we 'put in the hundi.

One comment: any devotee reading this pamphlet....how would he know who is creating/distributing the pamphlet? and that the pamphlet creators are genuine bhaktas of swamy Ayyappa. They might have some doubt in their minds. The pamphlet giver might need to talk to people receiving it.

English + one language is a good format.


MurthyG-
I never heard the word ' roundhna' used for trampling. It sounds too literary. I've heard the word 'kuchalna' used quite frequently for trampling.


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