Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 02 Jan 2019 22:09

Disha, Please let people talk. Its an emotional issue and by suppressing voice we don't serve any interests.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 02 Jan 2019 22:15

Sachin and Dileep and others,
This comes to a fundamental question:
Is India a 1) democracy or 2) an elected monarchy?
The arguments being made are central Govt should bypass the will of the State as represented by the elected State Govt and pass an ordinance. Such course of action is if India is a 2)
The subject is concurrent.
State govt has to pass ordinance and Center can concur.

If State is under Governor Rule or President Rule this can happen.
But for this to happen the people need to pull down the State govt.
That will not happen as some one here said Kerala people don't mix religion and politics even if their elected representatives do.
So please do read up your old civics text book and lets discuss.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 02 Jan 2019 22:20

LDF, especially the CPM has a long reach in the state. Vast majority of the women in the state is working and regardless of that being in a company, factory or manual labour, they are all members of some trade union. The unions make sure you cannot be fired by the employer regardless of what you do and everyone see it as important to join one as soon they get a job. Attendance of meetings called by these unions are compulsory and they don’t have much of a say in the running. Just listen and obey what the union leaders tell them. If you know how militant the trade unions of KL is, you will know that it is practically impossible to go against them.

From my highly scientific poll of Malloo wimmens, there is some gyan to bring to this issue. Women who work on hourly paid jobs, housekeeping, cooking etc, say that they went and stood in The Wall because:

"They" reminded me of how I got help from them to acquire a house, and my friend are going, and if I don't go then I might not get that loan through "Kutumbashri", and ...

{Person who related this said most of the same wimmens went to BOTH the Ayyappa Jyothi and The Wall. My kind of ppl: a party is a party, no matter who throws it.

}

I have to ask myself: If someone has a record of helping me when I need help, and they are my friend, why would I not vote for them, instead for the mean SOBs who wouldn't even let me enter places of worship if they were allowed to diss me?

BTW, a good percentage of fuel station attendants wear uniforms marked: "Kutumbashree". These are people for whom the LDF govt has set up these programs that make all the difference. They give them pride and confidence and some sort of future. Beats the pakistan out of vague concepts such as "Acharyam" or "Tantri" etc.

This is why the LDF behave like winners (OK, nausea break here.., but I HAVE to agree that they are 100X as organized and effective as "our kind") while the yindoo political entities end up being losers. Karma. Imagine! In a state with the most people going out and working their tails off in the ultimate Capitalist centers, the COMMUNIST party (Marxist) keeps winning elections!

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 02 Jan 2019 22:41

Interesting statement from a Union Mantri

Hegde said that Chief Minister Pinarayi Vijayan’s "prejudice is creating confusion among the people". He said that even though the Supreme Court has given its directions in the Sabarimala issue, the power to maintain the law and order situation in Kerala rests with the state government.
"The Kerala government should have managed the situation without hurting the faith of the masses. But the state government entirely failed. It’s daylight rape on the Hindu people, he added.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 03 Jan 2019 00:05

Kerala Syndrome may be worst than Stockholm Syndrome. No bickering but outsiders can't help those who happily patronize the very force which suppress them.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 03 Jan 2019 02:50

Prem,
Think of the Marathas after the fall of Deogiri and establishment of Bahmani Sultanate and takeover by Mughals.
Thats continuous three centuries of occupation.
Yet in a short span of 30 years Shivaji established the Maratha kingdom which became an empire under the Peshwas.

I have been studying, thinking about how it came about.

It was Shivaji who kindled the Maratha fire to not live under occupation.
This fire got lit in other people too who joined the struggle.

This fire did not light in all Marathas: some were serving the Bahmanis, some went on to serve the Nizam, some more the British.

Yet the fire kindled by Shivaji led to an empire that took back Attock.
Similarly Kerala Hindus need to rekindle the fire to not live under secularism which is the new Sultanate.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 03 Jan 2019 04:56

Some anger in Kerala.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 03 Jan 2019 08:50

Ramana, the "privacy for Deity" is not (should not be) state subject. Of course, the state govt could have made that law, but we are talking about a govt in typical malloo fashion 'groped the girl in the dark and claimed victory'. Honestly, a Congi govt would have made the law IMO. We are seeking help from centre against the state govt who do not take care of us.

What is the end game for BJP? My fear is that it is "Congress Mukt KL" short term, with CPIM in power and BJP in opposition. Makes sense nationally, the big picture, greater good, need of the many, and whatnot!!

No way Hosey!! That is not acceptable. Hence the agony.

If BJP is willing to do 'tactical policy' and keep commies away from power, my support is for them.

disha · Post by **disha** » 03 Jan 2019 10:19

Dileep wrote:What is the end game for BJP? My fear is that it is "Congress Mukt KL" short term, with CPIM in power and BJP in opposition. Makes sense nationally, the big picture, greater good, need of the many, and whatnot!!

Please do not over think. You can open a party of your own and drive it the way you want.

Kerala may remain the last bastion of CONgoons any way (maybe Peechattishgarh). CONgoons in MP and Raj are actually in power due to hung assembly.

In the meantime:

Kerala Sabarimala hartal LIVE updates: Two CPM wrokers held for BJP protester’s death

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 03 Jan 2019 10:26

Disha, I make my living by over thinking onlee. So, what to do onlee.. I do both thinking over and over thinking.

Hey, when the butcher is taking the goats to be processed, wouldn't it make sense for them to be given the opportunity to bleat for jhatka instead of halal? Assume that' all I am doing. Peace.

And yeah. We MAY form a party. Who knows?

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 03 Jan 2019 10:51

IMO the term "Marxist Communist" has limited mileage left. Hu Marx? What Commune? U can't get a rise out of even the US SDOTUS by saying: "Look look! They are COMMUNISTS!" You get a loud {YAWN!!}

The CPI shed the names "Leninist", "Trotskyist", "Maoist" etc with no fanfare, so I feel that CPI(M) will slowly shed that outdated name, and morph into their main strength:
The Forces for Equality. Those hu Stand Up 4 Da Toiling Worker. oops! What "toiling worker"? What Hammer and Sickle? The concept is unknown to most present/new-gen. (wo)Manual labor is a dying profession, does not really make subsistence wages. The next-gen Toiling Worker is the plumber, electrician etc who are Small-Bijnej types, as capitarist as they come.

This is already happening. If u listened to Comrade Brenda Karat carefully, as well as several of her more local followers, the narrative is getting nuanced. They sound like Gandhi (I mean MKG not SG or RG), Martin Luther King, Vivekananda, Narayana Guru and Yeso C rolled into one.

Meanwhile, the Our Side is stuck in Ritual and "Tradition", getting driven, and nicely painting themselves into, a Corner of Irrelevance. The Cong is of course racing ahead into the corner.

What I am saying is that the Modern LDF offers a narrative that sounds good to nearly everyone, as long as they listen only for what they want to hear (which of course is a justifiable criticism of Our Side as well). This is how election results like the 1967 ? (109/129 seats to LDF) happen, with disastrous consequences.

Or are the consequences disastrous?

I have grown up brainwashed that Communist governments are a disaster to the land but maybe some clear thinking is needed on this point. By what metric?

In 1956, and maybe 1967, UP was modern, British-built roads, huge rail junctions, massive agriculture, big airport connecting to Oirope in 9 hours, Tokyo in 9 hours. Huge Holy Places for tourism, The TM sitting right there as The Must-See of Inja. Poised for massive growth. Industrialization racing ahead. Farms suitable for tractors and International Harvesters.

KL was a backwater. "Biji nahi, sadak nahin". No industry. Recently feudal. Caste splits, religion splits.

Fast-forward 70 years. UP went the Relijjun Way. KL went the Secular/ Democratic People's Way. KL beats the knickers off UP. Who am I to criticize the Far-Sighted Netas of KL who dissed smokestack industry in favor of (well... ????) magically making money hand-over fist.

Very simple Bijnej Plan if u think about it. Obstruct and harass all free enterprise into starvation, force them to leave their native land and go abroad in search of a living. They bust their backsides, dreaming of the Land of the Nalikeram. They send money back. They dream of buying a "4-legged thatched-roof hut" Back Home. End up buying a defunct rubber plantation or prime urban property, putting up Shopping Malls and Whisky Parlors. Real estate prices rocket far above urban California levels. Voila! KL is RICH!!! Now the workers abroad pump ever more money into the land, trying to afford that 4-legged hut that is now on the 16th floor of a High-Rise.

First state with FOUR international airports (and good thing too, you need to fly to get from point A to point B because the roads are no go even when there is no Hartal). Pollution in the Kalamassery area is non-existent compared to 1984, because the smokestack Bourgeoise Capitalists have been driven out. "100% Literacy" so that ppl can stupidly read "Desabhimani". A color TV in every hut to watch the Soaps, all bashing yindoos. A thriving Mollywood film industry entirely operating on Hindu-bashing and Polis-bashing.

How do you tell an outsider that THIS is what a "Communist-ruled State" looks like?

As for the title of this thread, FLOODS? WHAT floods? The only sign still visible is that ppl say as they go past a driveway: "That's a Relief Camp. Some ppl are still there because they lost their homes". Entirely cleaned-up, the present worry is that the long-clogged drains and rivers got freed, draining groundwater reserves so that a major drought looms.

And how was this done? Govt. Assistance?

Ppl got Rs. 10,000 per family, max, regardless of losses. Of course trickle-down from CPI-M was a lot more.

So I would say that KL population has demonstrated unbelievable resilience in self-help and micro-community help.

And .. meanwhile, the former Tormentors of the Toiling Masses are doing what, again? Saying that voters are stupid for wanting to continue the Pro-People Policies of the DYFI, instead of kissing up to the snooty UP-wallahs with their arrogance?

Face it, ppl. The "D" in LDF is Dynamic, for sure. Want to beat them in elections? First change ur Coaches and Team Owners. The LDF plays Test cricket. Our Side plays gully cricket.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 03 Jan 2019 11:50

On the "woman entering the holy shrine" fiasco yesterday; more details are coming out in the open. There are online news channels which generally take a neutral stand; or at least give more details on the incident.
From Marunadan Malayali (Expatriate Malayali- Malayalam) report.

The two women were taken in ambulances till the holy shrine. That is they did NOT trek the hill path, as they would be recognized.
The police men were in mufti (and one has been identified as a communist sympathiser from the CPI(M) strong hold of Kannur dt).
The devaswom guards challenged the police party but the police said "We are police" and pushed their way through. From this point the police video graphed every move. There are video clipping floatings in which the police photographer can be clearly heard saying "we have got the videos, and that should be enough to prove our point".
On their return journey the vehicle was stopped by police men themselves. To which the police party inside said that they were taking an injured policeman down the hill .
The entire operation was planned by pro-CPI(M) police men who clearly realised that 95% of police force at Sabari mala were actually devotees (and would protest).

Another report from the same online source says;

With police escrot the two woman reach the home of their friend Johnson at Angamali, Ernakulam Rural Dt. Johnson is also said to be an ultra-leftist activist.
Then they switched vehicles and moved to a private vehicle to cross multiple toll booths, in which RSS et.al were waiting. K.P SB CID kept a constant watch on the movement of the vehicle.
Now they are to be holed up at communist party strong hold in Kannur, North Kerala with no plans on what they would do next.
Every house connected to these two women have now been given police protection.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 03 Jan 2019 11:55

ramana wrote:Some anger in Kerala.

Smoke is there but they need to light the fire under Commie feet and ask rest of Indian Yindoos to join them . If 4-500 K angry Dharmics from all over India show up there, it will be Takshak Dahan Yagya again before this 2019 Mahabharta battle start .

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 03 Jan 2019 12:00

Mean while the harthal/bandh in Kerala seems to be going strong at the moment.
Intelligence report predicts massive attacks across state in coming days.
Five shops vandalised in SM Street, several arrested. The traders here are from the peaceful community and their boss had said that he would keep the shops open.
Dissent, conflicts across state: CPM office burnt.

There are talks about centre invention etc and even passing of an ordinance, but considering Mr. Modi's modus operandi these days I don't think any of such thing will happen. The Hindus in Kerala will have to fight all by themselves against three organised religions.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 03 Jan 2019 12:19

Supratik wrote:I don't want to sound parochial or bring in politics but Kerala Hindus blaming BJP for Sabarimala is like me blaming Aishwaria Rai for not sleeping with me. What have the parties that you vote i.e. LDF and UDF have done for Sabarimala?

It was BJP who went around the town saying they are a Hindutwa party; and many people took it at its face value. BJP in Kerala politics is nothing so on a day to day basis no one is going to seek their help. The usual issues they take up (Ram temple, beef ban etc.) do not have much impact on Kerala. The UDF (Congress) have always kept away from Hindu temples on the traditions part. Even today they respect the traditions of the Sabari Mala temple. The communists have set their guns on the temple may be during the last 5-10 years, and with this chief minister it has reached an alarming level. This was the first instance where the Hindus in Kerala had to seek help from any party which would help their in the matter of faith. Even the BJP was not willing to stand with the Hindus - may be they used the same logic which you sighted, that they don't get votes any way. It was only seeing the mass protests that BJP jumped in. And after jumping in; did any thing great happen? Nothing. It was day before yesterday they got the Prime Minister to make a stance.

If you think BJP is not good enough or don't like it find a local Hindu party or a party or an organization who will do it.

It cuts both ways. What has BJP done to convince the Kerala Hindu that it means business here? Sabari Mala temple's big season would get over in another 15-20 days. Then every month it opens for 5 days. The CPI(M) has now clearly figured out a way to ruin the place, their plans are 100% perfect.

Now can you list out what BJP leadership plans to do? Na.Mo has been in radio silence, till day before yesterday. The state BJP leadership has not been able to get any help/push from the BJP central leadership. May be BJP is just hoping against hopes that things would get a stay on Jan 22nd when Hon.SC hears the review petitions. And if some thing positive comes out; use that to show case a victory (Congress will also do the same).

chandrasekaran wrote:Among all the parties, its the BJP that has been the most vocal with actions on the ground, supporting the cause of Sabarimala till date.

A small correction required there. BJP also first distanced off the issue, but when they saw Hindus protesting they made a U turn and joined them. And the actions carried out at the temple were mainly RSS inspired, and it was their cadre which was involved. The BJP "leaders" of Kerala (folks like O. Rajagopal, or Sreedharan Pillai) have done diddly-squat considering that their party actually rules many states and even the country. They brought in Pon Radhakrishnan; who was shown his place by a Supdt. of Police. After that no BJP big-wig came that way. Even as I type this; BJP has not said what it plans to do. Which clearly means that they do not plan to do any thing. I am keeping RSS & BJP as two different entities here, BTW.

Srutayus wrote:Amit Shah has spent a considerable amount of his time in Kerala. And BJP and RSS cadres have given up their lives for the cause.

Amit Shah's time was wasted in KL, because the KL BJP leadership is mediocre and also have their own groups and factions. I can understand (and appreciate) RSS standing up for Hindus, but BJP leadership in KL is absolutely pathetic. Just ask O. Rajagopal "In one clear sentence, state KL BJP's stand on Sabari Mala issue"; you will see the sentence becoming a paragraph and ultimately not conclusive.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 03 Jan 2019 12:21

Sachin, as per DDM-grapvine, the key conspirators who met over days to hatch this: CM, DGP, IG Manoj Abraham and Kottayam SP Harishankar

(That DGP bozo badly wants to head CBI. Going by Modi-govt's recent lahori logic in helping pro-left officials to migrate to Center, he will certainly be appointed as CBI Director and then suddenly, the Lavilin case will be "taken care of". A few posters here saying "Kerala does not know how to deal with Left")

chandrasekaran · Post by **chandrasekaran** » 03 Jan 2019 12:33

Sachin wrote:
chandrasekaran wrote:Among all the parties, its the BJP that has been the most vocal with actions on the ground, supporting the cause of Sabarimala till date.
A small correction required there. BJP also first distanced off the issue, but when they saw Hindus protesting they made a U turn and joined them. And the actions carried out at the temple were mainly RSS inspired, and it was their cadre which was involved. The BJP "leaders" of Kerala (folks like O. Rajagopal, or Sreedharan Pillai) have done diddly-squat considering that their party actually rules many states and even the country. They brought in Pon Radhakrishnan; who was shown his place by a Supdt. of Police. After that no BJP big-wig came that way. Even as I type this; BJP has not said what it plans to do. Which clearly means that they do not plan to do any thing. I am keeping RSS & BJP as two different entities here, BTW.

So BJP and RSS are different. RSS is actually going against BJP in this...

If all you have to say about Pon. Ra is "he was shown his place by a Supdt", I can only but laugh at you. You expected a central minister to play street level thuggery with an IPS officer in full public view ? No wonder you guys vote for LDF

Wishing you all good luck! I shall go back to lurker mode.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 03 Jan 2019 12:50

Sachin wrote:Mean while the harthal/bandh in Kerala seems to be going strong at the moment.
Intelligence report predicts massive attacks across state in coming days.
Five shops vandalised in SM Street, several arrested. The traders here are from the peaceful community and their boss had said that he would keep the shops open.
Dissent, conflicts across state: CPM office burnt.

There are talks about centre invention etc and even passing of an ordinance, but considering Mr. Modi's modus operandi these days I don't think any of such thing will happen. The Hindus in Kerala will have to fight all by themselves against three organised religions.

Kerala Hindus have to fight and give a chance for Modi. Making snide remarks won't help.

Avarachan · Post by **Avarachan** » 03 Jan 2019 12:51

Dileep wrote:Supratik, that may happen. We may see a KL based yindoo party that serve the KL Yindoo interest soon. They may have an issue based alliance with NDA.

Dileep, I haven't posted in this thread because I'm an Orthodox Christian, and Sabarimala is an internal issue for the Hindu community.

Nonetheless, I'm writing to support your idea for a Kerala-based "dharmic" party that would ally with the NDA. Due to the idiotic economic policies of the Communists, so many men have had to be apart from their wives and children in order to find work overseas. As everyone knows, this has created many family problems. Many Orthodox Christians loathe the Communists because of this. We are open to an alternative. It would be good for Kerala (and India).

Also, many Christians admire Prime Minister Modi. For instance, his achievements in infrastructure construction are obvious to any intellectually honest person. Nonetheless, we eat beef (as is common in Kerala), so the things which emotionally interest an RSS worker from Uttar Pradesh are not necessarily the same things which interest us.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 03 Jan 2019 12:58

chandrasekaran wrote:So BJP and RSS are different. RSS is actually going against BJP in this.

Can you show case some incidents in which O. Rajagopal and Sreedharan Pillai of BJP Kerala leadership taking a good stand with the devotees, and even giving some consoling message indicating what they plan to do in the issue? Then there was this chap A.N Radhakrishnan who again tried to act smart (since he was escorting Pon Radhakrishnan) in front of the police but again put down in place.

The only BJP leader (with RSS routes) who did some good action was K. Surendran. He was seen visibly with the pilgrims and led the protests. He was arrested and imprisoned for 14 days, now he is out on bail. Another person who actively supported the pilgrims was Valsan Thillankeri again a strong RSS man from north Kerala. It was people like this who used RSS cadre to "protect" the temple. Folks like O. Rajagopal and Sreedharan Pillai have not even visited a place any where near the hill temple. https://english.mathrubhumi.com/news/kerala/situation-in-state-similar-to-1959-sreedharan-pillai-1.3448146. Oh yes, but does he have a plan to take action based on this situation?*. No idea.

You expected a central minister to play street level thuggery with an IPS officer in full public view ?

Then why did he get into a debate with SP in the first place, with A.N Radhakrishnan trying to throw his weight around? What did it achieve? Pon. Radhakrishnan could have made the darshan without much fan-fare.

* In 1959 Nehru kicked out the elected CPI(M) govt in Kerala, with EMS Namboodirippad as the CM. The commies had tried to make changes in the school education system etc. and also running kangaroo courts against the "beurgois". There was a sustained campaign against the commies with NSS and even church taking a stance against the commies. L&O problems and police shoot out happened, and a pro-Congress Governor gave a report asking Central Govt. to ask EMS to go back to his palatial home (kept intact even after all land reforms & land ceilings).

ramana wrote:Kerala Hindus have to fight and give a chance for Modi. Making snide remarks won't help.

Sir, with all due respect

. Kerala Hindus have to lead the fight? But then what chance is Modi (or BJP) expecting? If it is a promise of ruling Kerala, then we have to wait for another three years. Sabari Mala temple opens every month, and any thing can happen in three years. Traditions & faith system once broken are difficult to be regained. And if BJP or Modi is expecting a chance, what are the indications from their side that they are willing to offer help to Kerala Hindus?
----
Added later. A report from an online media source. No justice expected from state government; all hopes on Modi. NSS organisation to seek PM's appointment. Congress MPs to give memorandum to Modi. Pressure to be mounted on Central Govt. to issue an ordinance, if SC decision on Jan 22nd is negative.

Javee · Post by **Javee** » 03 Jan 2019 13:26

I know it may be unpopular to say, but the so called national parties have summarily stayed away from this whole issue. And for people who say that KL folks didn't do anything to prevent this, it is far from the truth. It is the aam saami's that have fought for the last month or so along with some strong representation from RSS. All others were just giving sound bytes with no real action. Now that Pinarayi did what he wanted to do, he might claim victory and call it justice served. The devotees are heart broken, i'm sure they will move on and might even warm up to the idea of letting women in, in due course. All because there is a precedence now. Pure mis-management of religious matters by each and every one in power.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 03 Jan 2019 13:57

ramana wrote: Kerala Hindus have to fight and give a chance for Modi. Making snide remarks won't help.

What have modi done lately to KL Hindus to entitle this 'chance'? The soundbyte three days ago? Not enough saar!!

O Rajagopal and Sreedharan Pillai are doing 'reluctant co-operation'. Even higher 'intellectual' RSS leaders are on record (before the verdict) supporting yuvathi entry. Only the {aam-swamy} && {aam-swayamsevak} folk did the fight.

I have personally heard and seen the dilemma with the RSS/BJP/VHP low level leadership during the initial days, because the organizations were in support of the SC verdict.

So, to answer your call a) we are going to fight and b) We will give Modi the chance, if he helps us.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 03 Jan 2019 14:33

ramana wrote:Sachin and Dileep and others,
This comes to a fundamental question:
Is India a 1) democracy or 2) an elected monarchy?
The arguments being made are central Govt should bypass the will of the State as represented by the elected State Govt and pass an ordinance. Such course of action is if India is a 2)
The subject is concurrent.
State govt has to pass ordinance and Center can concur.

If State is under Governor Rule or President Rule this can happen.
But for this to happen the people need to pull down the State govt.
That will not happen as some one here said Kerala people don't mix religion and politics even if their elected representatives do.
So please do read up your old civics text book and lets discuss.

You are making the same mistake that BJP has been doing so far. Let me list it out for you -
1. Kambala
2. Jallikattu
3. Puri
4. TTD archakas
5. TN Icon centers (& Pon Manickavel)
6. Neduvasal+Neutrino observatory
7. Dahi Handi
8. Shani Shingnapur
9. Sorimuthu Ayyanar temple

All these issues are local issues that affects a few districts only. Nothing that the center/other states people should be concerned about either no? But what is common to all these issues? Yindoos get shafted one way or the other and this silo-d mentality will only hurt us. Prithviraj father in law level idiocy we cannot keep doing time and again. If you dont fight these battles, who will ? The local fighting for his belief doesnt have deep pockets or influence. Just to reiterate the Jallikattu example - the farmers fighting for it could only afford a local lawyer, the awbi/peta/fcra folks came with a battery of expensive powerful lawyers, where able to get hearings from sc judges while these guys waited for an entire year to get a hearing and still got shafted without getting heard. Who will bankroll the little guy if not the guy from another state or central bjp? If you think this is a north=south issue that each doesnt understand, in 2018, sorry get ready to sing dear lord in heaven in 10 years.

Why isn't the BJP working/already enacted legislation that safeguards all yindoo practices as beyond interference by courts? Why do they not enact legislation that delivers denominational status to individual belief systems in yindooism so that yuvaraanars in the sc can't put essentiality of religion test to each and every practice of yindooism and then claim no no this practice isnt essential so you cant enforce it, your practices and age-old beliefs need to die. SC judges are on record claiming they see the constitution as a moraly reformative document to civilise the heathens in this country. what more invitation do you want? betel leaf on a plate level invitation to get off your behind and do yindoo things?

What do we have instead? A javdekar proudly boasting that he hasn't touched school textbooks in 5 years. Guess what Raj and MP govt have done on day 1? Say they're changing textbooks to de-saffronise them. BJP are a bunch of idiots in this league, lets face it. Asking them to do what they should be doing isnt opposing them just for the sake of it. They need to do it but looks like they're a bunch of clueless fellows who're happy getting pats on their backs for idiocy like harshvardhan hailing diwali cracker ban as some great thing. Thats the level of the bjp right now.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 03 Jan 2019 14:59

Stop being so silly. If Modi is not the PM today, can you imagine any kind of protest happening? Can you imagine what must have happened in Kerala? The Congress and Left must have joined hands and fought off the Hindus. Since it became clear that without Hindu votes a party cannot be in Power and that realization is making the Temple run and support for the cause. Not the other way around. So the more Modi the better.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 03 Jan 2019 15:31

Javee wrote: Now that Pinarayi did what he wanted to do, he might claim victory and call it justice served. The devotees are heart broken, i'm sure they will move on and might even warm up to the idea of letting women in, in due course. All because there is a precedence now.

. The current incident cannot be called a "precedence". It is only a case of treachery, which cannot be repeated more often. It is now out in the open that this was an act of treachery by the CM and a few of his minions. Women taken in ambulance to the shrine, and when people questioned the group the women were classified as "Hijras" and then taken forward etc. The video recording done by the police clearly shows that this was an event indented for the cameras and not out of devotion etc. All this is was not mandated by any court order. This was misinterpretation of a court verdict to get the KL Hindu society splintered into castes. The penance ritual is meant for such purposes; that is that women made an entry not because of wilful approval of the devotees and their agents the priests. It was beyond their control. Now they have done the penance, and life moves on (as is). The problem would only become worse if the police (with CM leading them) repeatedly try this tactic again and again.

ramana wrote:The subject is concurrent.

The list of items in Concurrent List (Wikipedia). Item #28 Charities and charitable institutions, charitable and religious endowments and religious institutions seems to be the relevant section for temples such as a Sabari Mala. As per the same article "residual powers" on concurrent list is still with the Central Govt. I read this as "final control" on the legislation related to the items in concurrent list.

The below phrase is interesting..
If any provision of a law made by the Legislature of a State is repugnant to any provision of a law made by Parliament which Parliament is competent to enact, or to any provision of an existing law with respect to one of the matters enumerated in the Concurrent List, then, the law made by Parliament, whether passed before or after the law made by the Legislature of such State, or, as the case may be, the existing law, shall prevail and the law made by the Legislature of the State shall, to the extent of the repugnancy, be void.

This provision clearly states that even if the state modifies the law related to an item in concurrent list, it still can be voided by another law made by the Parliament. There is no rule that the state government should draft a law first, and then central government should take it up. In case of Jallikattu, the TN state enacted a law which had provisions contradictory to laws (on Animal protection) framed by the central govt. Due to which the concurrence of central govt was mandatory.

Also note the first two items in concurrent list. It is IPC and Cr.PC (two big pan-India laws). Now how many amendments have central government made on IPC and Cr.PC? No state governments complain, and they jolly well follow the amendments made by the central government. Some states had modified provisions of Cr.PC (to enact laws like MCOCA in MH), due to which they also had to take concurrence from central govt (which was given).

With my limited knowledge of law, looks like it was the Kerala BJP who was earlier dodging the issue by saying that Kerala Govt has to bring a law, which Kerala BJP would work to get approved by Central Govt. Where as the truth was that nothing stopped the Central Govt. taking this up suo moto.

hnair wrote:Sachin, as per DDM-grapvine, the key conspirators who met over days to hatch this: CM, DGP, IG Manoj Abraham and Kottayam SP Harishankar

Yes, that is what I read from online news portals as well. So looks like this was a plain and simple treachery done in order to teach the Hindus a lesson. I always had serious doubts on the IG chap. The SP is the son of Sankar Das, a CPI party member and in the current Travancore Devaswom Board. And that the four conspired to get two activists (that too of the CPI(ML) variety) clearly shows that they had their own agenda and Hon.SC verdict was just an excuse. To be frank, if they could do this with no thoughts of repurcussions, it means that they have got a powerful backing from multiple "behind the scene" players. All the police men are IPS cadre and have some connection with UPSC (a central govt body), and even with that knowledge if they could pull this one, it clearly shows that they have more stronger backing. Don't know if UPSC is now staffed with "secular" people.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 03 Jan 2019 15:40

Regarding Jallikattu, Central Govt brought a Govt Order which was annulled by SC stating it should come from the State and Center can approve it.

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/s ... 2016-01-12

One thing for sure

1) Athiest CPI(M) and anti Hindu, wants to wipe out Hindus/ Hinduism.

2) Minority supported INC does not have bone in this fight, its main voters are 44% minorities in Kerala and can afford to sit it out without getting itself tagged in North Indian States.

So all in all Politically its status quo, unfortunately a few foolish RSS/BJP cadres will get killed in Kerala. I wonder why one risk their life in Kerala.

But it is clearly as shown in the politics of the last 50/60 years of LDF/UDF to have post Hindu Kerala as it suits them.

Use of Article 356 can be done if there is complete breakdown of law and order in Kerala which is clearly not the case.

21 Lok Sabha seats of Kerala are anyways in the Kitty of the UPA, they will be just called UDF/LDF but will support RG, unless RG does not require these seats LDF will do the drama of opposing him.

Javee · Post by **Javee** » 03 Jan 2019 15:48

uddu wrote:Stop being so silly. If Modi is not the PM today, can you imagine any kind of protest happening? Can you imagine what must have happened in Kerala? The Congress and Left must have joined hands and fought off the Hindus. Since it became clear that without Hindu votes a party cannot be in Power and that realization is making the Temple run and support for the cause. Not the other way around. So the more Modi the better.

I'm sorry how is a protest good thing when it has not achieved what it was set to achieve? We lost of the battle, not sure if we lost the war also at this point. Modi or not in the center, KL Hindus would've been up in arms fighting tooth and nail against this blatant imposition of cultural revisionism. Let me put it blunt, as a KL yindoo( for argument sake), I would wonder how is he "better" for KL if he cannot even solve our basic/fundamental right (to pray)?

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 03 Jan 2019 15:52

Tell me who else is the alternative? Karat? Yechury? Rahul? The battle has just begun. Kerala is slowly waking up to reality. Without a fight there is no victory. The communists are into it for decades together. How long there was a Pro Hindu party at the center in India? So change will come and it will take time. A calm mind is a necessity. When did BJP see rise in their base in Kerala? When did BJP win a single seat in Kerala? After Modi? Patience is a must for a warrior.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 03 Jan 2019 16:22

Next up: SC will be asked to ban Cruelty to Elephants as in using them at relijjiuous festivals with noise, fire (lamps) and ppl sitting on their backs while the poor things have to stand for hours with cruel load of umbrella etc. Instead they will be trained to put a ref flag on one ear and another color on the other like MGR's pants and flap them.

I was taken aback to hear some bheshtern bibi remark on those great Festivals in Malloostan, but with sudden (makara) tears in her eyes about "I read about those poor animals, such a pity!" So propaganda on TV must be going full blast: she thought I knew what she was talking about.

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 03 Jan 2019 16:25

Javee wrote: I'm sorry how is a protest good thing when it has not achieved what it was set to achieve? We lost of the battle, not sure if we lost the war also at this point.

Nothing is lost. This is not a win or lose battle. For centuries places of worships have been subject to attack, abused, demolition. Strong civilization absorb the wave and rise again. This is perpetual struggle. Get up, rise, install status quo and move on. Sometimes to bring back status quo it takes days, months, years, decades, even centuries. Wait for the right time and grab the opportunity.

win lose is in your mind. Adversaries want you to think you lost. There will be symbolic so called 'their victories', intention of which is to mess up your mind. Don't fall for it.

For example, do you remember how hindus were converted decades ago? by simply accidently making them eat buscuits or bread. Instead of just shrugging shoulder and move on, they thought they lost their faith and got converted into other religion.

Never ever say 'I lost'. It is just a setback. Hang in there.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 03 Jan 2019 16:39

Jallikattu is totally and completely within TN and exclusively part of Tamil culture. Temples and Deities are all over the country. That is why a central law is required.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 03 Jan 2019 17:10

by simply accidently making them eat buscuits or bread. Instead of just shrugging shoulder and move on, they thought they lost their faith and got converted into other religion.

Sorry to remind ppl of this, but they were "helped" by such idiocies as "Brasht" for Crossing the *&^% ocean!!! Imagine doing that to the people who setup the first civilization stretching from "Hanoi to Haifa" and probably clear across to South America. Malloostan in particular, and yindoostan in general, have never lacked self-destructive "leadership".
Which is why some introspection, deep breathing, may be a good idea at this juncture...
Right now the commie-pakis are having a field day painting Malloo yindoos as violent no-good goons that destroy the shops of ppl minding their own binjej. The commie goons that stab them to death or throw stuff from upper floors onto peaceful protestors, are of course seen as Liberators.

TKiran · Post by **TKiran** » 03 Jan 2019 17:51

The reason why Sheikh Hasina won the Bangladesh elections is because she crushed the opposition with determination, no ambiguity, everything legal. People like strong leadership. When leadership fails to restore Dharma, giving just lectures, people fight it anyway, but never vote weak leader, whatever may be the excuses

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 03 Jan 2019 17:56

UlanBatori wrote:Next up: SC will be asked to ban Cruelty to Elephants as in using them at relijjiuous festivals with noise, fire (lamps) and ppl sitting on their backs while the poor things have to stand for hours with cruel load of umbrella etc. Instead they will be trained to put a ref flag on one ear and another color on the other like MGR's pants and flap them.

I was taken aback to hear some bheshtern bibi remark on those great Festivals in Malloostan, but with sudden (makara) tears in her eyes about "I read about those poor animals, such a pity!" So propaganda on TV must be going full blast: she thought I knew what she was talking about.

Joo are too late to this news. Temple elephants in malloostan have been under attack by videsi bibis of dubious origins and backers for a while now. I would suggest you lookup
https://twitter.com/gajendramoksha
https://twitter.com/by2kaafi/status/792247071977803776 (Maneka Gandhi, MWCD - gee I wonder who she works under)
https://twitter.com/gajendramoksha/stat ... 0957948928
https://twitter.com/gajendramoksha/stat ... 7108773888
https://twitter.com/gajendramoksha/stat ... 7391991808
https://twitter.com/Kuvalayamala/status ... 4741529600
https://twitter.com/gajendramoksha/stat ... 8933944320
https://twitter.com/gajendramoksha/stat ... 5433263104
https://twitter.com/gajendramoksha/stat ... 3952979969
https://twitter.com/axidentaljourno/sta ... 9143216128 (just desserts)
https://www.hindupost.in/politics/pils- ... it-anyway/
http://www.hinduhumanrights.info/temple ... s-brewing/
https://twitter.com/ministrywcd/status/ ... 96?lang=en (

uddu and others who dont seem to get it. we know modi is far better than the alternate. that doesnt mean that modi and co are missing teh plot and need to get on with it. how else do you explain that jallikattu was brought on by wcd minister? Same minister feted this idiot who won nari shakthi award ? explain that please. you dont even need to do yindoo causes, but feting and awarding your enemies is ok cos its modi who is doing it? doesnt he need to be educated? his own ministers are working against the cause. More on this 'awardee' https://twitter.com/by2kaafi/status/970343371507027968

Now tell me why some of Dileeps arguments aren't right in that BJP doesn't seem to get it.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 03 Jan 2019 19:05

Dileep, if the BJP gains in Kerala the LDF will suffer more than the UDF. That is because the Hindu vote is distributed 65-70% LDF, 30-35% UDF. Muslims vote 90% UDF, 10% LDF, Christian vote 80% UDF, 20% LDF. So the CPIM or LDF is the Hindu party in KL. I believe the UDF has strong presence of Nairs. The UDF will see vote loss but will win by default if the Hindu vote shifts to BJP. About 2 out of 3 seats in KL are Hindu dominated. So a Hindu vote bank will win elections.

Sachin, We from outside understand your predicament. However, balancing between two stools will not get you far. You need to decide if you want a Hindu vote bank and then jump into it because clearly the other communities have a vote bank. Now you can call us north Indian imbeciles who don't understand the beauty of KL but today your women are being lured and converted in the thousands and even sent to Syria/Afghn to fight for ISIS, you have Hindu helplines, you have entire generations of brainwashed zombies running the place, you don't have a proper economy, your people are moving to different places to find jobs for decades and now one of your most sacred temples is being desecrated by people who actually do not believe in the deity. IMO it is time for you to take a stand and not nitpick incoherently. Form your own organizations that will look after your community.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 03 Jan 2019 21:21

Don't know the veracity of this report but Modi is to make two visits to KL in the month of January. Once on Jan 6th and another on Jan 27th
PM Narendra Modi to address two public meetings in Kerala. So his recent remarks at Sabari Mala seems to be also a kind of "opening shot". But we will have to see what he says or does during the visits.

And Modi's visit, the total treacherous move by the elected CM of the state and his police minions to desecrate a temple. And then the state is now in a condition of rioting. Communal polarisation is also now a very strong reality in Kerala. Every Keralite Hindu realises that when it comes to their religion no support would come from them from X'ians or Muslims. I don't know if these are all coincidences. Too many things happening, and some of them generally not done by any one who have been in politics for long.

Supratik wrote:You need to decide if you want a Hindu vote bank and then jump into it because clearly the other communities have a vote bank.

If Hindus want to become a vote bank or fight as one for a temple, then they will do that. Just to remind. Even the Hindutwa party only decided to join KL Hindus, once they saw the protests on the street. So no moves of charity or magnanimity from their side. The Hindutwa party sensed an opportunity (with INC doing the same a bit later), and came in and it did help the cause. So to put it simple, Kerala Hindus may form a vote bank or would have to work a plan with another political outfit (most likely INC, or the BJP). For all you know if Supreme Court changes (or puts on hold) its earlier verdict, things may move back to the normal way of life in Kerala, with BJP finding no other issue to pick up.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 03 Jan 2019 21:23

KL poses an interesting question. There are 5 points: CPI-M, Cong, ML, Church (KL-Cong), BJP. I get the feeling that BJP-CPIM is the most natural alliance if one has to choose. Both argue for People's Uplift, Sabka Vikas etc. Wonder if a MohanB/AmitShah - Pinnarayi Summit is possible: if so the Cong-KLCong-ML gang can be sidelined.

P.S. Did u c the video of the CM's pilot car (polis) deliberately veering to hit a guy waving a black flag?

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 03 Jan 2019 21:29

I think you are making a mistake by making it about BJP. F**k the BJP. It is about your own future. I am not sure if people from other parts of India consider the reports and analysis coming out from KL as normal. However, if it appears normal to most Keralites and they are happy about that is a choice they make. Till the next crisis.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 03 Jan 2019 21:43

Sachin, Please do some thinking and not post mixed messages.
You want BJP political support but not Hindu religious support.
How is that possible?

LDF exists in power because of Kerala Hindu support.
Reflect on this:

Dileep, if the BJP gains in Kerala the LDF will suffer more than the UDF. That is because the Hindu vote is distributed 65-70% LDF, 30-35% UDF. Muslims vote 90% UDF, 10% LDF, Christian vote 80% UDF, 20% LDF. So the CPIM or LDF is the Hindu party in KL.

supratik, On Twitter I have seen a lot of emotional responses from all over India to the temple desecration.

BTW, when RSS workers are being murdered in Kerala do forum members see them as Hindus, or RSS or even humans?
If so I have not seen one coherent post about these murders.
The general thought was its RSS only. Let them die.

As to being academically detached, its the work of some erudite members that NIA is being invoked to handle the murders.
We are all not hot air as some secular dismiss.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 03 Jan 2019 21:54

Ramana, I think they want support but are afraid to burst the Kerala bubble. I mean in most parts of India marching with a cut cow head specially upcountry to protest the beef issue as come Cong leaders did would make them deadbodies. This is not normal. This thread would not be there and a lot of emotional outbursts that I am seeing on twitter and facebook would not be there if there was not simmering discontent. But I see confusion on what to do.