Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

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Dileep
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aug 2018

Post by Dileep »

HN, thanks for all the inputs. It is nice to know that people like you are involved at the centre of things.
habal wrote: Mullaperiyar & Idamalayar dam spillway should be routed via pumps directly into Arabian Sea instead of dumping into Idukki dam & lower lying areas resp.
Fantastic idea!! I have a better one. Why don't we all drink one glass of the water each and problem solved!!

I mean.. what kind of utter stupidity is this? Please.... take your remarkable indeligence somewhere else.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aug 2018

Post by habal »

:roll:

heat of the moment I presume. What I meant was an engineering marvel type of project in future which could evacuate large sums of water directly to sea instead of channeling them through downstream rivers.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aug 2018

Post by ramana »

Sachin Calm down.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aug 2018

Post by Singha »

50% of coffee crop on coorg has been damaged by heavy rains.

our system is such that come december various parts of south india will be short of water.

some means to cheaply move north indian surplus water from ganga-brahmaputra system and seaflow of western ghats up a height of 500m into reservoirs in north KA/MP/south MH/north telengana/western odisha/south TN - traditionally water starved areas would be best soln. but question is the energy needed to pump megatons of water and keep things moving.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aug 2018

Post by Sachin »

1430Hrs IST updates..
PM appreciates Kerala for its fight against flood.
Red alert in 11 districts; heavy rains predicted.; this would have an impact on the rescue operations.
Singha wrote:50% of coffee crop on coorg has been damaged by heavy rains.
To be frank, I am not seeing much information on the flooding and land slide at Coorg. Noticed a few local channels covering the same. As I write this around 50 Civil Defence folks are going up to that area with communication equipments etc.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aug 2018

Post by Rahul M »

via twitter

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aug 2018

Post by Singha »

a aged woman being winched up to mi17
https://twitter.com/IAF_MCC/status/1030724015575392257
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aug 2018

Post by Singha »

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aug 2018

Post by Singha »

^^ above is calicut apt
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aug 2018

Post by Singha »

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aug 2018

Post by Singha »

Indian Air Force

Verified account

@IAF_MCC
Aug 16
More
#KeralaFloodRelief :Requirements of boats & additional personnel induction for supporting HADR is being undertaken by IAF. Liaison offrs are positioned along w/ District Collectors at Pathanamthitta,Alappuzha,Ernakulam,Thrissur&Malappuram to ensure proper utilisation Air Effort.

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Indian Air Force

Verified account

@IAF_MCC
Aug 16
More
#KeralaFloodRelief : IAF has established a HADR cell at Thiruvananthapuram & is working in constant liaison with state government to plan & execute rescue ops. In addition a Task Force Commander has been nominated to coordinate employment of fixed wing & helicopter Assets of IAF.
More

#KeralaFloodRelief :The assets deployed are :-
Helicopters - 04*Mi-17 V5, 05*ALH.
Plan is to build up total assets of
10*MLH (Mi-17 class), 10*ALH & 03*Chetak/Cheetah.
Transport aircraft -
01*C-17, 01*C-130, 02*IL-76 &
07*An-32.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aug 2018

Post by Singha »

I suppose shallow draft LPD ships can pickup and drop supplies to the coast in bulk rather than attempt to move by trucks or aircraft . only trains can match that throw weight if functioning near flood areas.

even jalashwa could be quite useful imo.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aug 2018

Post by Sachin »

Singha wrote: #KeralaFloodRelief :Requirements of boats & additional personnel induction for supporting HADR is being undertaken by IAF. Liaison offrs are positioned along w/ District Collectors at Pathanamthitta,Alappuzha,Ernakulam,Thrissur&Malappuram to ensure proper utilisation Air Effort.
On the bolded part. There is a strong theory/approach getting floated that the Def. Forces should some how take over the command from the civilian authorities (Collectors, Tehsildars etc.). Media often quotes similar disasters in Utharakhand etc. Honestly, I have not seen a case where the civilian bureaucratic structure is completely handed over (and have to report to) Army/Defence officials. Looks like IA, IN,IAF is going by the rule books; "aid to civilian authorities" would be what they would be doing. The overall disaster management plan and its execution is with the KL civil service. GoKL also seems to know the established procedures and are going by that; but there are other vested interests who are trying to gain advantage of the situation.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aug 2018

Post by Singha »

a bridge from which water receded
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aug 2018

Post by Singha »

in any flood relief op the district admin is involved for storage, guides, distribution help, manpower.
the civil govt is still very much in place, has not collapsed and has the best information and reach.

deploying armed forces is not a magic solution.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aug 2018

Post by Dileep »

Singha, the flood is NOT near coastal area. It is in the Midlands. Even in Kochi, the focus area is Aluva.
Hovercrafts might work in the current situation I think, but we do not have any fleet. Do we?
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aug 2018

Post by Dileep »

There is another depression starting somewhere near 18.44° N, 87.56° E as per wind map. Right now, it is pulling winds over northern coast (Goa and north) If it moves south, then we will have the next problem in our hands. Yet another variable to watch.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aug 2018

Post by chetak »

Dileep wrote:Singha, the flood is NOT near coastal area. It is in the Midlands. Even in Kochi, the focus area is Aluva.
Hovercrafts might work in the current situation I think, but we do not have any fleet. Do we?
Didn't the coast guard have some?

They may be too big for current operations even over flooded land.


Image
Griffon Hoverwork: Griffon 8000TD

They seem to have 6 H-181(Griffon 8000TD) and 12 H-187(Griffon 8000TD)

Specifications

Crew: 15[16]
Empty weight: 30,000 kg
Payload: 8,000-10,000 kg[17]
Length: 22.52 m
Height: 5.52 m[18]
Beam: 11 m
Maximum speed: 50 knots
Armament: 1 x 12.7 mm MG
Power: 2 × MTU 12V183 TB32 Diesels
Propulsion: 2 × Ducted CP aircrew props, 1,600 bhp
Range: 365/42
Fuel capacity: 2,000 litres
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aug 2018

Post by Sachin »

1710Hrs IST
1. Lots of positive news coming up on social media. 50s, 100s rescued from the flooded areas in Chengannur, Allappey Dt.
2. With helicopters coming up for heli-lift many people are refusing to get lifted this way. Instead they want food materials, and they plan to stay put at their homes. As per them water level is residing.
3. Minor cases of looting reported - Super Market looted.

Relief camp boundary wall collapses in Paravoor; 6 killed..
TN announces Rs 5 cr more, relief materials, medical teams for Kerala.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aug 2018

Post by UlanBatori »

hnairji, long-distance mondin morning quarterbacking onlee. Apologies. Great work. But if ppl send money to Amazon/Whirled Vision it is certainly not because I dissed the Twin Elephants. People that clueless cannot be helped.

Having said that (and hope you succeeded in shutting the Whirled vijion musharraf) the CM**** does have a reputation to live down. The gyan on what happened there is neither fron neuj outlet nor politicians, but from ppl who sat like you, except far more frequently, next to the High Netas for decades. Utterly depressing, as you will probably find out in due course when the excitement settles down. Meanwhile May The Force Be With You!!

Practically speaking, if someone asks: "where should I send money NOW to help?" the answer is **NOT** the guvrmand's channels. Because they can get all that they can get from the Central guvrmand or state guvrmand credit, if not the vast reserves in the treasury. todin's neuj:
The Kerala government had sought Rs 8,316 crore as a special package from the Central Government for dealing with the situation. Union Home Minister Rajnath Singh who visited the flood-hit state on Sunday announced an immediate relief package of Rs 100 crore.
Are they going to treat your paise with any more respect/efficiency than they treat THAT?

The TA musharraf in disaster relief AFAIK is distribution when done top-down. The guvrmand can only reach so many sources, because ultimately the guvrmand is a very few individual aphsars using their ophishial cell-phones etc to call up ppl and beg them to sell/deliver stuff. And here the State Govt. of Kerala has an absolutely biss-boor record of NOT PAYING BILLS on time. State aphsar is not empowered to give credit card to aam abdul and ask him to go buy stuff On Behalf Of The TwinElephants.

OTOH, a private relief agency can muster as many volunteers as the State can muster aphsars, and they operate on goodwill built up. Also, their ability to operate IS contingent on grassroots delivery performance. So they are more effective.

So the solution is **NOT** to ask people to pour their paise into the guvrmand's kitty, but to give it to local grassroots agencies that have the ability to get resources down to the individual relief worker. For instance, if Relief Worker Ayesha needs cash to fill her scooter's gas tank so that she can continue running errands, will the govt give her the funds or credit? Or get her 6th coujin in Belgaum to load up a truck with baby food and building supplies and send it to Aluva, will the govt move fast enough?

Also, really good relief agencies focus on rebuilding with improvement, not just relief. Govt takes way too long to do this. In the long term, the CM's Relief Fund does not need money because they ARE going to get Central money in large amounts.

CGI local (actually a terrific diplomat, completely changed my opinion of IFS) but in his farewell speech he could not resist showing his EyeEffEss training and went on about how
India does not need (you to come and build) toilets
:roll:

And BTW, there ARE good Malloos donating to the CMDRF:
Notably, a temple in Keezhillam, in Ernakulam district has donated its treasury to the CMDRF. The Kaniyasseri Mahavishnu Temple has handed over donations it received in the donation box to the aid fund.]Notably, a temple in Keezhillam, in Ernakulam district has donated its treasury to the CMDRF. The Kaniyasseri Mahavishnu Temple has handed over donations it received in the donation box to the aid fund.

Authorities of the Thiruvairanikkulam Mahadeva Temple have also donated a sum of Rs 5 lakhs to flood relief.

The Mahallu Committee of a Masjid in Thrissur's Perumpilavu has announced that they will contribute two weeks of donation to disaster management. Many churches have also announced a contribution of Sunday collection to the CMDRF.

It is not just organised groups, that are making it count. Even individuals are making small but notable contributions.

Two kids in Kochi have broken their piggy bank to donate their savings for flood relief. Haroon and Diya, children of a Kochi-based couple Sidhique Mallassery and Fathima Siddique, decided to help out the flood-victims with their small donation.

"Haroon and Diya had a habit of collecting all the money they got in the past two years in their piggy bank. For the past two days after watching people donating essential materials to flood relief, they came to me saying they wanted to donate all their money to the children who lost their books and bags in the flood. They had Rs 2210 in their piggy bank. I know it is not a big amount, but I am really happy about their choice," Fathima Siddique wrote on Facebook.

Another kid from Kochi, Achu broke his piggy bank, the money which he had saved to buy a study table and donated it to flood aid.

A private bus in Piravom donated an entire day's collection for helping the flood victims.
So, who would I suggest? 1) [url=ht ... ief/]SEWA.See KHNA link above as well, it also goes to SEWA not to KHNA. SEWA is much more than KHNA, they come with India-wide and worldwide experience. Apparently just got a $500K donation in Houston based on their awesome response after recent Houston floods.

2) IDRF. Talked to the Big Cheese there yesterdin: the coordinator of the Kerala effort is an experienced coordinator and, well, Malloo and for once he has the opportunity to help his ppl instead of ppl far away.
Open YOUR hearts and Donate:
Online: (Designation: Kerala Floods)Open YOUR hearts and Donate:
Online: (Designation: Kerala Floods) [url=http://www.idrf.org/get-involved/make-a-gift/
OR
Mail your Checks (Memo: Kerala Floods) along with your email-id
(for tax-receipts) to:
India Development and Relief Fund,
5821 Mossrock Drive, North Bethesda, MD-20852]http://www.idrf.org/get-involved/make-a-gift/[/url]
OR
Mail your Checks (Memo: Kerala Floods) along with your email-id
(for tax-receipts) to:
India Development and Relief Fund,
5821 Mossrock Drive, North Bethesda, MD-20852
The above two (and they are linked) have a 30+year record (Maybe 200-year for SEWA) in saving and **REHABILITATING*** ppl in the hardest-to-reach places that the guvrmand baboon won't even hear about.

3) LOCAL church, mosque and synagogue leaders.

If ppl want to give to **LOCAL*** churches and mosques and Synagogues, as much or more than Temples May The Power be with them. Fantastic resources can be marshalled by places of worship, and they too have excellent accounting. Foreign conversionish*ts should of course be kept the **** out of there, no question.

Here is what I can find from Ulan Bator:
https://www.theweek.in/news/india/2018/ ... -help.html

Pls give my regards to the Chief Secretary and a duly respectful middle finger to the C* Himself.

Dileepji: thx for clarification, but with all respect, if the water level rose from below street level to 4 feet above inside 1 or 2 hours it was certainly not rain but dam release. Hard fact: these are ppl who have lived there all their lives. The Big Cheese who said "ain't leaving, water won't come up any further", "until the water touched his feet" is 94+ and a farmer all his life: his understanding of rain is a big better than the government's. Also, yes, connecting westward slopes to eastward slopes via tunnels/pipelines is a major undertaking, but maybe a lot small than building a dam at Idukki, let along Yellow River. Has been done when ppl wanted it desperately enough. Is it worse than watching this same playout next year, or say 5 years of reconstruction later?

**And building those things in Space is equally feasible, BTW, and shown carefully to be so. Maybe not to Malloostan PeeDubyaDee based on their awesome record of road-building and maintenance (look at the Kuthiran mess), but for nominally competent and hard-working and forward-thinking ppl.*** Even at Kuthiran, they have actually built the entrances to a 4-lane tunnel that is quite long, at both ends, though it must be now below water at both ends. Maybe next year we can read of the low drama as British Navy SEALS experienced from the Thailand caves reach the cars stranded in the high pockets inside the Kuthiran tunnel. :roll: Why not? Why would you expect the tunnel to ***NOT** get flooded next year unless the monsoon fails?

Unable to find local temple/church/mosque sites collecting /organizing relief: I am sure they are out in the field working, no time and maybe no power to make websites. If you find any links pls post.
Last edited by UlanBatori on 18 Aug 2018 18:06, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aug 2018

Post by Sachin »

UlanBatori wrote:Because they can get all that they can get from the Central guvrmand or state guvrmand credit, if not the vast reserves in the treasury.
State is broken Saar. Onam expenses: Govt to borrow Rs 2500 crore...; this was nearly two weeks back. Now this loan would certainly have to be used for the flood relief.

Not very reliable/sensationalising Malayalam news portals report that around 21 people have died awaiting rescuers. Government said to be now suppressing the number of casualties (which may be a good thing as of now).
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aug 2018

Post by UlanBatori »

hnairji:
BTW, OT and of course to score cheap points on ppl's suffering, but this event shows why heli-lift using other means is much more effective.
Sachinji: State will be as broke after Achu, Haroon and Diya emptied their piggy banks trustingly into the same Khajanav. The Onam loan request is **PRECISELY*** what my source cited as reason why s(he) ain't giving to CMDRF: "the money will be used for Party Onam bash". That is why I said that s(he) knows the inside realities up2date.

Yes, yes, I hear about Strict Auditing. And Dire Police Action In Case Of Any Malfeasance. Will treat it As Seriously As They Treat Kidnapping and Murder. {Isn't the Police Mantri == Mukhya Mantri and all SI's subject to instant transfer at His whim just as other aphsars are?}
They should replace the storm drains with the malloostan guvrmand: 10 orders of magnitude better at OUTFLOW>>> INFLOW.
Last edited by UlanBatori on 18 Aug 2018 18:12, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aug 2018

Post by arshyam »

hnair wrote:- UB-sir, Sachin et al Please read this carefully: humble request to tone down some of the cliche rhetoric at this point! The CMDRF is audited and closely monitored by all parties in Kerala and I can vouch for that. If it goes to only to CPI-M, there will be hell to pay, politically and otherwise. I was at the white building till 2:00 PM yesterday, trying to get the credit gateways for foreign cards opened. Approvals from RBI were sought and given in record time. But thanks to rhetoric like your's lots of people took the Amazon route, trying to byepass govt. There were only three NGOs listed by Amazon, who can list what supplies they want and donors can donate them. And our of three, guess who was lurking there prominently? World Vision India..... So be careful about who gets benefited if an elected govt in India, whatever their foibles, is disparaged. I have requested (via a friend) for Amazon to shut that shyte down, yesterday itself and add Indian NGOs of repute. PM's relief fund is another option, which too reaches CMDRF, but takes a bit of time to reach the right department. So it is not cool to hear these online posts about CMDRF etc, without knowing what traps are set for donors by EJ types! Us on the ground have to work with all sides and we will have to work harder to make sure for equitable distribution!!!
Thanks for clarifying this saar. I did stop my plan to donate to the CM DRF based on posts here, and wasn't sure who else to donate to. So your clarification goes a long way in helping me do a little bit.

Btw, they accept UPI payments at keralacmdrf@sbi - the main site seems to be under maintenance till 1900 IST.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aug 2018

Post by arshyam »

Singha wrote:our office has opened its matching 1:1 grant for 3 ngo - akshaya patra, habitat for humanity and oxfam when employees donate via payroll deduction. a kerala relief sub-bucket opened under the general pool which was already there for all 3. I split my contrib 50:50 among the first two.
Saar, you might want to take a look at these, w.r. to habitat:

https://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/t ... 497403.ece
NEW DELHI: Former U.S. President Jimmy Carter revealed on Friday that he had to sign a personal undertaking that an international charity, Habitat for Humanity, would not engage in religious conversion activities, before the group was allowed to build houses for the poor in India. Mr. Carter said he had given this undertaking to then Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi.

Mr. Carter, who will be in Mumbai to witness construction of small homes by Habitat for Humanity, said the group had approached him in the U.S. to intercede with the Government of India on its behalf. Though a former President, he had taken up the matter with Mr. Gandhi who asked him to sign an oath that there would be no proselytization activities.
If took Rajiv Gandhi's govt to extract this oath, you can imagine how much of a threat these guys would have posed. I don't know if this oath is legally binding - I have seen these guys collect money in rural US towns - the religious angle is not far from the surface, and there is usually a poor looking brown kid to evoke sympathy onlee...

To top this, the following is from our MHA website: https://fcraonline.nic.in/fc8_cancel_query.aspx
Registration Cancelled List
State : Karnataka

104 094420765R Habitat for Humanity India 2017
These guys are an FFNGO and are peacefully collecting monies inside India since their FCRA license has been cancelled. An FFNGO that GoI has decided should not receive foreign funds for whatever reason. So let's be careful before giving money to such operators.

Q to everyone: apart from Akshaya Patra, what other Indic societies are present on the ground? I would like to share the info with my KB folks, many of who want to help in some way.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aug 2018

Post by chetak »

Sachin wrote:
UlanBatori wrote:Because they can get all that they can get from the Central guvrmand or state guvrmand credit, if not the vast reserves in the treasury.
State is broken Saar. Onam expenses: Govt to borrow Rs 2500 crore...; this was nearly two weeks back. Now this loan would certainly have to be used for the flood relief.

Not very reliable/sensationalising Malayalam news portals report that around 21 people have died awaiting rescuers. Government said to be now suppressing the number of casualties (which may be a good thing as of now).
Helo operations may be hampered in times of rain due low visibility, night time and fuel state limitations. Hearing that fuel is a problem because the authorities are unable to establish local fuel dumps and may need to get back to airports frequently to refuel.

Obstructions like electric wires etc are another real hazard. Even if not powered, chances of snagging winch cables are rather high.

Helos burn max fuel during hover and that is what they seem to be doing most of the time, either picking people up or delivering aid packages.

Time on task may be rather limited by above factors.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aug 2018

Post by SaiK »

The best initial help would be life jackets. I suggest NDRF starts making them in millions for current and future floods. It is all about when and where next now.
Last edited by SaiK on 18 Aug 2018 18:35, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aug 2018

Post by Dileep »

UB Sir, I never said neither is impossible. I would never say that against something you said. But I have some little issues on the "take water east" idea.

1. You still need a dam to hold water. It need not hold a lot of water, but dam nevertheless.
2. Let us assume that we build a 100ft tall dam at the same location as Idukki. Forget the Cheruthoni basin for now. It would have caught around 1000 Cumex (two third of the total inflow of todays Idukki) of rain in the past week..
3. You need to blast a tunnel of 34km through the hard rock to Cumbum. I never had to study or learn hydraulics, but looking at the sluice gates of Cheruthoni that discharged the 1500Cumecs, you would probably need a 50 ft dia tunnel to deliver the water. The current power generating drain is 7m diameter onlee.
4. Then you need to cut an open channel of hundreds of meter wide to carry the water to the river Vaiga.
In all, I would say the effort is much more than building the current Idukki dam system.

Now, the KILLER QUESTION: What about flooding at Vaiga with all the water? The mighty periyar is flooded with just 500Cumex!!

Now back to the current issue.
The water raise was due to dam release, but it sustained for three whole days because of continued inflow. If the dam was not there, the raise would have been slower by a few hours, but the peak would have been the same, hence spread would have been the same.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aug 2018

Post by SaiK »

Singha wrote:a bridge from which water receded
Image
I will not within my heart ignore karmic laws that governs our ways of living. Everything else is politics.

And what we see here is a small peck of the human crap.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aug 2018

Post by A_Gupta »

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aug 2018

Post by arshyam »

Expanding the link Sachin saar posted:
TN announces Rs 5 cr more, relief materials, medical teams for Kerala.

Chennai: Tamil Nadu Chief Minister K Palaniswami today announced relief materials including rice, milk and Rs five crore more for relief operations in the flood ravaged Kerala.

Palaniswami said essential medicines and teams comprising medical and veterinary doctors will be immediately dispatched to the neighbouring state.

Over and above the Rs five crore contribution for relief given to Kerala on August 10 by Tamil Nadu, the Chief Minister said,"an additional Rs five crore," will be provided from the Chief Minister's Public Relief Fund. On August 9, Palaniswami had announced the Rs five crore for relief and rehabilitation work. <snip>
I suppose this is also due to the TN CM's culture? I am no supporter of the CM, but to generalize and attribute whatever he did to his culture is unacceptable and uncalled for, especially at this time.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aug 2018

Post by UlanBatori »

Got to think about that. The very fast rate of rise within 3 hours is what bothers me. In the place that I know, there is a canal that got fairly cleaned out by May-July rains. Water came to street level and maybe 2 inches above one day due to continuous HEAVY rain for 2 or 3 days in June (or July) and they were watching with alarm, but then the rain stopped and it receded fast. Next time there was 2-3 days heavy rain it did not rise to street level. But rise by 3 to 4 feet above street level inside 3 hours at night is really inexplicable due to just continuous rain, however heavy. VERY high-ticket neighborhood.

Now about Mullaperiyar: I actually moved my musharraf to GoogleMap it. Interesting place. TN-KL border is actually some 7 to 9 miles away from the eastern tip of Periyar Laks (the catchment lake of the rejerboir). I presume that the border is the top of the range, though it looks heavily forested on the TN side too. So that is as far as any tunnel/canal/aqueduct system has to reach, rest is all downhill. The TN side valley (looks brown compared to the green of KL as usual!) seems quite low and flat, so it should be possible to distribute the downward flow along 10 or 20 channels terraced into the eastern slope. I am sure there must already be some small water pipes running from Lake Periyar to the east. What I am suggesting is a fairly large channel that can take flow above X meters of Lake Periyar level, eastwards. Maybe put a small dam across that in order to maintain control.
[url=https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/tn-refuses-to-reduce-mullaperiyar-level/article24719003.ece]Meanwhile, TN has refused to follow the Supreme Court's "advice"[/url], saying that a 3-4 feet release now will kill a lot of ppl on KL side. I have to say that right now the baboon are right, SC is asinine. But they should have released continuously with good prediction, so that the level did not rise above the danger level at the height of the flood. This is where the present dam policies/instructions seem absolutely asinine.

All in all, not a sustainable situation. Refusing SC advice takes courage I suppose. Hope they are not proven wrong. An actual dam break would kill a heck of lot of ppl.

Also note from the picture that they **DO** now have pretty substantial overflow channels, but they simply feed westwards same as opening the gates, except less flow. They should do that a couple of miles east at the eastern tip of Periyar Lake.
Aditya_V
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aug 2018

Post by Aditya_V »

Dileep Sar, water was diverted to Vaigai but belatedly and could have been done sooner

Flood alert issued at Vaigai dam as water level crosses 66
UlanBatori
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aug 2018

Post by UlanBatori »

SaiK wrote: I will not within my heart ignore karmic laws that governs our ways of living. Everything else is politics.
And what we see here is a small peck of the human crap.
The pic is shocking, but any flood leaves a lot of ****, and that is because it tends to flow through ppl's homes and shops. You may see filmy actor Prithviraj's leather sofa also floating and it is not because he tossed in in the river but because the river tossed his house. In the case above, maybe the flood hit a shop where they had stored 1000 empty bottles to recycle. Or a recycling center.

BTW, on the topic of lifejackets: there was a brilliant WhatsApp thing being forwarded yesterday showing how to take 8 or 10 empty plastic water bottles, stick them under your shirt, with two strings tied like belts around chest and waist to hold the bottles in place. Good lifevest, even if temporary (if the bottles and your shirt get torn off by floodwater it is finis), then again so can an ophishial lifejacket.
nvishal
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aug 2018

Post by nvishal »

So while ISRO and indian satellites are non-responsive, NASA has released something we are all interested in

Image
UlanBatori
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aug 2018

Post by UlanBatori »

The problem I see is that Dam Opening Protocol is based purely on dam level, not weather prediction and taking a gamble on losing a few days' rain. Also the fear that exceeding the top level will threaten dam safety. Plus too much delay. That synchronizes dam openings with peak rain flooding **rate** periods. The function of a dam should be to **CHECK** the river flow so that during flood times the dam takes more water than usual. This requires that water be released well ahead of time to create new capacity. And every time there is a letup in rains, this discipline must be followed, to keep preparing. This is tough: what if you release 10 feet of water with a month left in the Official Monsoon - and no more rains come? So good weather prediction models are needed, unless you proactively sink rain into the ground (acquifer flooding) and to places which can store into the dry season so that demand at the height of dry season is reduced.

With a little better planning a 5-foot-peak flood could be kept down to a 6-inch or 1-foot flood which won't bother most ppl so that everyone can go back to **Yawn, it's only some poor ppl in low-lying areas and why do these stupid ppl go build homes there, hain?"
Fortuitously this time it has hit the Rich & Powerful. Karma.

P.S. Just saw that NASA map, thx. Why is Karnataka not under water I wonder? HUGE area of 400mm precipitation!
Last edited by UlanBatori on 18 Aug 2018 19:26, edited 1 time in total.
nvishal
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aug 2018

Post by nvishal »

^ Sharavati water reserve looks huge. Excess maybe flowing into the sea through honnavar

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@14.10462 ... a=!5m1!1e4
SaiK
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aug 2018

Post by SaiK »

We gotta capture in dams because that is the way we chose to live. Now the rate control can be managed depending on the needs of capture and future use. However, crossing thresholds is obvious to any one .. all controls stops there.

It is the landscape usage and water flow table after the threshold reaches is what matters. It is not about the dams. It is all about landscaping
chetak
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aug 2018

Post by chetak »

UlanBatori wrote:Got to think about that. The very fast rate of rise within 3 hours is what bothers me. In the place that I know, there is a canal that got fairly cleaned out by May-July rains. Water came to street level and maybe 2 inches above one day due to continuous HEAVY rain for 2 or 3 days in June (or July) and they were watching with alarm, but then the rain stopped and it receded fast. Next time there was 2-3 days heavy rain it did not rise to street level. But rise by 3 to 4 feet above street level inside 3 hours at night is really inexplicable due to just continuous rain, however heavy. VERY high-ticket neighborhood.

Now about Mullaperiyar: I actually moved my musharraf to GoogleMap it. Interesting place. TN-KL border is actually some 7 to 9 miles away from the eastern tip of Periyar Laks (the catchment lake of the rejerboir). I presume that the border is the top of the range, though it looks heavily forested on the TN side too. So that is as far as any tunnel/canal/aqueduct system has to reach, rest is all downhill. The TN side valley (looks brown compared to the green of KL as usual!) seems quite low and flat, so it should be possible to distribute the downward flow along 10 or 20 channels terraced into the eastern slope. I am sure there must already be some small water pipes running from Lake Periyar to the east. What I am suggesting is a fairly large channel that can take flow above X meters of Lake Periyar level, eastwards. Maybe put a small dam across that in order to maintain control.
[url=https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/tn-refuses-to-reduce-mullaperiyar-level/article24719003.ece]Meanwhile, TN has refused to follow the Supreme Court's "advice"[/url], saying that a 3-4 feet release now will kill a lot of ppl on KL side. I have to say that right now the baboon are right, SC is asinine. But they should have released continuously with good prediction, so that the level did not rise above the danger level at the height of the flood. This is where the present dam policies/instructions seem absolutely asinine.

All in all, not a sustainable situation. Refusing SC advice takes courage I suppose. Hope they are not proven wrong. An actual dam break would kill a heck of lot of ppl.

Also note from the picture that they **DO** now have pretty substantial overflow channels, but they simply feed westwards same as opening the gates, except less flow. They should do that a couple of miles east at the eastern tip of Periyar Lake.
Opening dam gates in an emergency is purely and solely an administrative decision. No one else has the right to poke their nose. Power without accountability and responsibility for consequences is a peculiarly Indian construct, especially with our constitutional pillars.

The ground situation is dynamically changing by the half hour and the hizzonners are sitting pretty and dry, thousands of miles away.
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aug 2018

Post by sanjayc »

Mata Amritanandamayi announces Rs 10 crore for Chief Minister’s Disaster Relief Fund
http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/ ... 58826.html
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aug 2018

Post by srin »

While the attention so far has been on Kerala, the situation a little north - in Kodagu - is getting critical. Many roads to Kodagu have gotten blocked due to landslides. Civil defence etc have been activated (I'm tuned into activity that a bit as a ham).
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