Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Kashi » 06 Nov 2018 09:08

disha wrote:Last checked it was AAP party in power in Delhi and they do have control over Delhi Police and its behavior.


Delhi police is under the Ministry of Home Affairs, Government of India not under the Delhi government.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Karthik S » 06 Nov 2018 09:34

Disha dude, I understand you are hurt coz few posters have blamed the govt. Thats happening Not just here but even in social media. But rest of your mumbo jumbo is just that. Fact is it was that moron minister in delhi who mouthed off for a ban even last year and was happy about it.
Diwali crackers has been thorn in rear for EJs for a long time. EJs find it difficult to convert when local population is tied to certain native practices. Putting constraints and banning such local practices is in for that very reason.
If certain cracker causes harm then ban that or regulate that. Give guideline on how to manufacture crackers. You don't blanket ban. Did ICC ban bowling after Phil Hughes incident? All this in light of selective and partial judgements on various religions.
That DF guy is going on school visits to take oath from kids not to burst crackers all the while his family has lunch with EJs in khanland. He would have closed more hindu schools than even UPA would have in the name of RTE. His minister invites everyone to an EJ event. Saw news that minister even renamed a road after a church. Nobody will ignore all this.
Will that delhi minister or DF provide employment to 8000 odd workers in sivakasi? Tell me who will go and prey on those 8000 poor "souls" now?
So request you not to bring in individual political inclinations here.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Sachin » 06 Nov 2018 09:45

0945Hrs 06/11/2018: No more young women at Sabari Mala. The woman who made an attempt yesterday has been taken back by her relatives. Police protection given for the family :roll:. The police had locked up all toilets etc. at the hill temple premises yesterday, to force the pilgrims to go down. That did not happen and the pilgrims camped there. The "locking up" business actually not only caused problem to the pilgrims but also to the police men posted on duty there. Again this became a botched attempt to "discipline" the pilgrims.

There were also protests against physical checking points at five different places. The GoKL has made Sabari Mala a place worse than the Indo-Pakistan border. I think they if they try the same tactic during the main pilgrimage season (starting next week), it would have much wider repurcussions. More pilgrims from South Indian states would land up, and every one may not remain passive.

And looks like yesterday's events all had a BJP/RSS plan behind it. Looks like the Sangh did manage to push a lots of its cadre in the first batch to reach Sabari Mala. Their leaders came in later, and it was this group which also put camp at the hill temple and refused to climd down. The police attitude was also not that great; they started treating every pilgrim as a potential Sangh warrior.

Now politics have completely taken over with CPI(M) and BJP accusing each other of very many things. This time the name of the chief priest is also getting dragged in, but he has been able dodge many allegations. One good thing is that he keeps his cards close to the chest, and never make any political statements. The main stream media is now trying to prove that the pilgrims are a violent mob; that is their new trick. Again the plan to show case the temple and pilgrimage in poor light.

UlanBatori wrote:Reports of clashes. Polis say woman > 52, protestors not happy. News18 cameraman got pushed.

Okay, that event happened this morning (06/11/2018). Three women had come for darshan and one's woman age was suspect. This led to protests (again only chanting Ayyappa mantras, and no physical violence at all). Once the age was confirmed to be above the mandatory age limit, she was welcomed with much uproar. It is a bit said that the "implicit trust" which existed in Sabari Mala is now gone. Earlier no pilgrim generally questioned middle aged or older women, it was assumed that they know the traditions & rituals.

Added later, some news reports in Malayalam
Three senior IPS officers go on long leave. Addl.DGP (Int) T.K Vinod Kumar, Inspectors General P. Vijayan & Vijay Sakhare have all proceeded on long leave. P. Vijayan is another devotee who always welcomed postings at Sabari Mala.
Multiple check posts, irritated pilgrims, a troubled pilgrimage. The pilgrims who came in for this other wise unknown event at the temple; is tripple the usual head count. And add to this the non-friendly approach of the police. The Kerala High Court also came down heavily against GoKL. All this has now forced GoKL to stop any more attempts of pushing young women up the hill temple.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby abhijitm » 06 Nov 2018 10:31

disha wrote:or this

I hope Delhi will never elect harshvardhan and his green gang.


Disha, my grudge is specifically against this guy and not delhi BJP. and thus call for not to elect him again. He has gone overboard and it is completely unnecessary. If you are bjp supporter you would not want to keep him around. Unlike judicial activism here voters have leverage on overly political activism and they can throw this guy out.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby disha » 06 Nov 2018 12:06

...<TLDR> Diwali crackers has been thorn in rear for EJs for a long time. EJs find it difficult to convert when local population is tied to certain native practices. Putting constraints and banning such local practices is in for that very reason. ...


I expected trope for EJ and jobs to come out on fireworks ... point is fireworks are pollutants in air, land and water and the insane ones (or unsafe and unsound ones) need to go. Do not tie it religion or even local practices.

This does not take away from the fact that Hindus are under assault and a siege mentality has set in. Everything and anything does not have to be tied to EJ or a mullah. Sometimes I wonder if this is the same siege mentality which we often accuse our neighbours on the north-west of!

Delhi police is under the Ministry of Home Affairs, Government of India not under the Delhi government.


And Delhi state government is under AAP. Both are very true statements. Thanks for picking that bait up., now why the burden of proof to satisfy to a "Hindu" rests with one but not with other(s)?

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Prasad » 06 Nov 2018 12:16

Do not tie it religion or even local practices.

It has been a practice since Vijayanagar/Aurangazeb times. You can practice what you preach but let others make their own decisions. The fact that neither the melawds nor the central govt has taken any steps to a) find out the major causes for increase air pollution in the later half o fthe year nor b) elucidated steps to tackle the greater % polluter at source and instead seek to cut out 1 day of celebration by arbitrarily introducing unscientific curbs with no reasoned throught process is obviously infuriating. This only is the latest in the series of fixing dahi handi heights, age limits for govindas participating in dahi handi competitions, banning jallikattu (while churches are free to conduct their own jallikattu btw), banning fireworks in kerala temples, continued petitions filed by fcra ngo PILs, and you want us to talk pollution? How about the govt bloody triple buses in every major city and put its money where its mouth is first?

https://twitter.com/vvaayu/status/1059693379393589248

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby disha » 06 Nov 2018 12:28

Sachin wrote:The "locking up" business actually not only caused problem to the pilgrims but also to the police men posted on duty there. Again this became a botched attempt to "discipline" the pilgrims.


Looks like the Commies are caught in the monkey trap. They cannot let go of the sickular "fruit" and neither they can climb down from the 'sickular' date palm on which they have climbed up.

I feel very sorry for the swamis, and the large inconveniences they are been put through. But this war needs to continue. The longer it drags out and the deeper pile GOKL digs in, the better. GOKL has lost the battle and now losing the war.

The police attitude was also not that great; they started treating every pilgrim as a potential Sangh warrior.


Swamis and Bhakts, what's the difference? It requires a discipline and a fervour to go through 41 days of vratham and show up for the 17 km trek to see your 'isht deva' and not get riled up when the bolis on the orders of sarkaar do a thorough job of desecrating your faith.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Sachin » 06 Nov 2018 12:37

Andhra women retreat due to protest in Sabarimala.
Here looks like it was ignorance on the part of women from AP. They were convinced by the other pilgrims, and they decided to go back. They were part of a bigger group. All except them have gone up the hill, while they would rest at the Nilakkal base camp. Again; the awareness of the temple's unique traditions needs to be spread more.

Social media trolls are now focusing on making fun of GoKL. Trolls of how GoKL made Sec 144 Cr.PC meaningless is doing the rounds. The biggest blow to GoKL was pictures circulating in social media. An RSS leader (from North Kerala) who did the pilgrimage this time, using the loud hailer given by the police asking the pilgrims to remain calm. This was when a woman had tried entering the temple, and the pilgrims had doubt on her age. An RSS leader running the show in an area where Cr.PC Sec. 144 is imposed and even the police taking his help to control the crowd; I am sure the communists would be having heart burns by now.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby disha » 06 Nov 2018 12:46

Prasad wrote:It has been a practice since Vijayanagar/Aurangazeb times.


So are you saying that insane firecrackers like sutli* bomb and serpents were available then and could be used any time of the day? Earlier it was tied to religion and now it is being tied to history!

Maybe you want to read this first https://www.timesnownews.com/mirror-now/civic-issues/article/six-year-old-dies-after-sutli-bomb-bursts-in-mouth-firecracker-related-accidents-claim-yet-another-victim/307793

Point is simple, there is a category of safe and sound firecrackers - use that. Better still in safe places or at most convenient times for everybody. But do not go around claiming that it impacts religion or history. It does neither.

Now I cannot fathom the esteemness of mewlawds, they are beyond my scope of understanding. Maybe I will have to file for anticipatory bail if I end up commenting on mewlawds. So leave it at that.

Regarding central govt. I would rather have them worry about the real atum bum and triple the number of subs they ply carrying those bums and not draft regulations which a city civic body can. It is this abandonment of civic governance that has led to the mewlawds and their associated page 3 hanger ons influence the "public policy" on festivals.

*Chemistry of the sutli bomb is interesting. It is alumunium/manganese powders. History would have really been different if Vijaynagara kingdom had a way to use such powders.
Last edited by disha on 06 Nov 2018 14:15, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby disha » 06 Nov 2018 14:12

Here is a list of desi fire crackers and their measured sound:

http://mpcb.gov.in/envtdata/pdf/Testing_Fire_Cracker_Noise2014.pdf

Some of them on the list go past peak 145 db level of sound. That is just intolerable. In fact all of the items on the above list should be banned. The above report is from Maharashtra PCB. I will be very very glad that if Dev Phadnavis has read the above report and proceeds to ban the above list of fire crackers with "missionary" zeal! We all should applaud that.

Even if one life is saved by CM's campaign against unsafe/unsound (and maybe even safe and sound) fireworks., we must applaud that.

BTW - What does 120- 145 db of sound does to you? It is beyond tolerable human pain. Here is something people should read https://www.chem.purdue.edu/chemsafety/Training/PPETrain/dblevels.htm

Tying ban on unsafe/unsound firecrackers and ordnances to create safe spaces/time to assault on history/religion is plain stupid.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Sachin » 06 Nov 2018 14:17

Update at 1400 Hrs IST.
Pilgrims take control over Sabari Mala hill shrine.
GoKL has now gone completely on the defensive, and its ministers all have stopped making bravado statements. The minister in charge of Devaswom is conveniently holidaying in the old Imperialist city of London :roll:. Sabarimala under police control only: CM.; where as the reality is that it is pilgrims themselves are running the show at the temple now. RSS leader Valsan Thillankeri is now controlling the devotees and managing movement up the holy 18 steps. This also indicates that Sangh have a large number of cadre now active at Sabari Mala. RSS seems to have scored a good goal this time around.

The police lost the game when they tried to whisk of a man who protested when three women entered the premises. One of them had to give an age proof to proceed further. After this was done police tried to whisk of one pilgrim. This led to a large number of pilgrims gathering at the spot, and the police men running into the Sannidhanam Police station. The PS was under seige for quite some time. An over zealous news reporter from Asianet News was also chased up, he had to actually sit on a window parapet in order to escape from the crowd :lol:.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Karthik S » 06 Nov 2018 14:24

Hats off to Kl devotees and women in particular who were protesting against a right given to them.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby abhijitm » 06 Nov 2018 14:56

Sachin wrote: Sangh have a large number of cadre now active at Sabari Mala. RSS seems to have scored a good goal this time around.

Excellent. Need to keep vigil.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby SriKumar » 06 Nov 2018 15:24

Karthik S wrote:Hats off to Kl devotees and women in particular who were protesting against a right given to them.
Hats-off to both groups, KL men, women- yes.
Women were protesting against a right given to them? beg to differ. A decision (based on partial or incomplete knowledge of tradition) was given in their name (as beneficiaries) and which they did not ask for. Their name and their Bhakti were used without their consent, and acted upon by GOKL. People who have zero or negative Bhakti to the temple and lord tried (and still are trying) to take advantage. IMHO this was/is the basis for their protest.

Willing to be corrected on this by people who know better.

Dileep-
Any reactions to your pamphlets? Hope you supplied an English version as well.
Last edited by SriKumar on 06 Nov 2018 15:27, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Dileep » 06 Nov 2018 15:27

Some comments:

The 41 day vruth is required to carry the irumudi and climb the steps. Even that is shortened to two weeks these days. Not having beard is also not an indication of non-vruth, since many people have professional requirement of no-beard. Anyway, any believer would not dare to go there without at least a weeks worth of vruth.

The number of RS at the Sannidhanam reminded me of this skit from the movie "Maverick", where everyone pulls out a gun, when the bolisman in charge had claimed that there are no guns.

What all was there!! Teargas Grenade launcher! Water Cannon!! Face detection camera! AK-47! Malappuram Knife!! Finally.. We see the RS leader calming the people using the bullhorn!!

Some highlights:

Police blocked pilgrims at Nilackal, saying that Bus will run only by noon. So, some thousand people simply walked the 20km to Pampa. The side effect is, the road was totally blocked, so, the bus (that left later) and police vehicles had to crawl behind them. Youknow.. people used to walk 60km through the jungle in olden days. 20km over a paved road is nothing. An old man with one leg is seen walking using a single crutch.

Police started ID check, but what can you do with hundreds of people pushing in... So, they stopped and allowed everyone to pass.

Hundreds of people came to Pampa for sit-down prayer. Police had to say.. OK.. sit in this location and do your thing. After effect.. not even a cat could pass without scrutiny by them.

K Surendran of BJP and a few RSS leaders showed up mysteriously at one of the waypoints. Apparently, he trekked through the jungle. He was holding a receipt for the "whole day puja" offering, so there was no way police could ask him to leave.

Police asked people to leave after darshan. No one budged, since they got to do the ghee abhishekam, which happens only in the morning. They stood around..till police gave in and allowed them to settle down at the 'nada panthal'. (That is the normal practice in the past)

Police locked up all the accommodation facilities. Fantastic!! Most of the devotees never take that anyway. They sleep in the 'nada panthal' and other such areas.

Police closed the Toilets. People would have done what was practice 50 years ago. They walk into the jungle and do their thing and wash in the stream.

And I am pretty sure that the hundies meanwhile remained empty.

Even Good old Mushy couldn't have beat this tactical brilliance.

Nothing more to worry for today. Please watch Janam TV from 9:45pm. They usually cover Harivarasanam ritual and closing ceremony that would happen at 10:00pm thereabouts. That would be another day we kept the barbarians out.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Dileep » 06 Nov 2018 15:34

SriKumar wrote:
Karthik S wrote:Hats off to Kl devotees and women in particular who were protesting against a right given to them.
Hats-off to both groups, KL men, women- yes.
Women were protesting against a right given to them? beg to differ. A decision (based on partial or incomplete knowledge of tradition) was given in their name (as beneficiaries) and which they did not ask for. Their name and their Bhakti were used without their consent, and acted upon by GOKL. People who have zero or negative Bhakti to the temple and lord tried (and still are trying) to take advantage. IMHO this was/is the basis for their protest.

Willing to be corrected on this by people who know better.

Dileep-
Any reactions to your pamphlets? Hope you supplied an English version as well.


You are absolutely correct. This "freedom" means nothing to the KL women. It is not something they coveted, or something that would give them some benefit.

The pamphlets are for the Mandala season. It takes some effort to organize these.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby SaiK » 06 Nov 2018 15:54

/

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby SaiK » 06 Nov 2018 15:58

https://english.mathrubhumi.com/news/ke ... -1.3286322

Tantri might shut down the temple or it is a libturd media false propagation
Last edited by SaiK on 06 Nov 2018 16:02, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Sachin » 06 Nov 2018 16:01

Dileep wrote:What all was there!! Teargas Grenade launcher! Water Cannon!! Face detection camera! AK-47! Malappuram Knife!! Finally.. We see the RS leader calming the people using the bullhorn!!

Looks like senior police officers who knew the pulse at Sabari Mala all proceeded on long leaves. What remained were non-believer police officials, or officials who were closer to the communist regime. Every plan made by the police was thwarted this time. I am generally a pro-police person, and understand the challenges they face. But this time around no sympathies to K.P. What ever trust they gained at Sabari Mala has now gone for a six. The Chief Minister also holding the home portfolio proved himself to be a clueless bafoon, who was totally dependent on advices from the 30+ advisors he now keeps. Like in a communist dictator ship these advisors always gives advices which suits the mood of the dictator, and this also back fired big time.

K Surendran of BJP and a few RSS leaders showed up mysteriously at one of the waypoints. Apparently, he trekked through the jungle. He was holding a receipt for the "whole day puja" offering, so there was no way police could ask him to leave.

I don't have much hopes on BJP leadership but liked the way Ulli Sura (K. Surendran) popped up at the temple. There were reports that they had left Pampa (river point), but then went untraceable. RSS gets a big plus point for managing this feat. These were all indications that the K.P and GoKL has lost the plot. Looks like RSS also ensured that their cadre were first to reach the temple (the sudden decision of people deciding to walk from Nilakkal to Pampa river point, could be because of this).

And I am pretty sure that the hundies meanwhile remained empty.

This is what I am also eagerly waiting for. The money which came to Sabari Mala Hundis this time. And this is one aspect which needs to get advertised much before the Mandala season starting next week. Come and visit Lord Ayyappa, pray and go back. "He" is never short of money, so don't bother. Hit GoKL where it pains the most; that is revenue. The Devaswom Board pays a huge amount to Kerala Police, who this time around was lathi-charging the pilgrims who came to Sabari Mala. Why pay to an agency whose focus is to get you beaten up?

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Sachin » 06 Nov 2018 16:04

SaiK wrote:https://english.mathrubhumi.com/news/kerala/rss-leader-on-18-steps-without-irumudikkettu-custom-violated-tdb--1.3286322
Tantri might shut down the temple

Ha.ha :lol:. It is fun to see commies now following every ritual & tradition at Sabari Mala ;). There are parihara kriyas (penance rituals) for all these. Even when women (of the restricted age) enter the shrine, there is a parihara kriya. But the problem is that they need to do it each time a woman makes an entry. The next attempt of communists would be to prove that they are the true devotees of Ayyappa and it was the RSS & BJP who is violating the rituals at Sabari Mala ;).

PS: These are all signs of again politicising the issue.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby SaiK » 06 Nov 2018 16:14

Most of the policemen on duty are very apologetic .... many are feeling pressure of work & personal faith choice .... can expect a breaking point there soon .....https://twitter.com/emanin/status/10595 ... 14176?s=19


His posts also complain about restroom facilities are locked up police earlier.

Nei abhishekam counter is shut.

Devotees are sad

__
Check out @paanchajanyaa’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/paanchajanyaa/statu ... 40032?s=09

Here clearly it is libturd media.. all we might know soon know how Pinnarayi might flip soon under pressure. After doing so, hw might claim victory by saying he was with devotees against media.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby chetak » 06 Nov 2018 16:40

twitter

Different model of protest initiated from Karnataka.


Image

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Dileep » 06 Nov 2018 17:09

Yes, I watched the video where the Valsan guy walking down the 18 steps and went "what?". He and whoever did the same need to do the penance for that. Let the Thantri decide.

But..

Police Ayyappas do stand on the steps, and practically lift people up. The steps are, like 15 degree to the vertical, so it is extremely difficult to climb in a rush. It is the police who keep people from falling down in a pile. Also, the assistant priests also climb down and up when the steps are cleaned and during padi pooja. But a casual devotee must not use the steps for sure.

Actually, the custom is to climb down the steps backwards when you take the final leave of the temple, but it was not possible for decades. Still, the police used to permit it if there is no rush at the moment. I have seen people doing that, and wanted to do it myself. But despite waiting for long, the rush never slackened, so I could never do the climb down.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby SaiK » 06 Nov 2018 17:22

Marxist have issued a death threat to Valsan / tweet
___
http://www.organiser.org//Encyc/2018/11 ... imala.html
CPM Fascism in Sabarimala: Devotees suffer as the Police Shut Down Toilets, Cut Power-Water Supply to Sannidhanam
___
P. Vijayan IPS, a known Ayyappa devotee used to volunteer for Sabarimala duty every season. This year he went on leave, even after Communist Govt posted him for Sabarimala duty!

SC & commies left with officers like Manoj Abraham IPS to enforce their law! https://t.co/9lVhfn56qn

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby UlanBatori » 06 Nov 2018 18:09

V need pic/video pls!!!
An old man with one leg is seen walking using a single crutch.


Oh! So polis conjern about Phundamental Rites only applies to Marxist wimmens? Not citizens with disabilities?

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby fanne » 06 Nov 2018 18:14

Congrats to all Lungi Bros!! at least for this round. May Lord Ayyappa help you in all future fights

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby ricky_v » 06 Nov 2018 18:31

Do not mean to derail the thread, but can anyone tell what is the long term plan of action, or will the religious come out to battle for their faith, every time sabarimala is opened. The govt and the sc can just wait it out, no? What would happen a year down the line? 5 years? Even if the next govt is somehow miraculously bhagwa-dhari, and passes some law to the effect, will it stand sc's scrutiny of constitutional rights?

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Karthik S » 06 Nov 2018 18:32

Indeed, how ironic people who voted commies turned out to be the strongest defenders.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby SaiK » 06 Nov 2018 18:48

Dileep wrote:.., so I could never do the climb down.
north Kerala /malabar regions we have more of the dykes and platform-ed ottamadoms. We have to always do steep climbs up & down even for a small stream bath. Lovely vacation days as kids is my memory. 90 year olds used to climb these vettukallu (laterite) steps at 90 degrees ease. :((

Just trying to relax you. We have lost ouselves into too many facilities.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Dileep » 06 Nov 2018 20:29

SaiKo.. I meant, I did not get the opportunity to climb down because of the rush. No too long ago I climbed up and down two decks of a Kilo class sub in single shot. Probably a total of six or eight decks up/down in an hour long visit. Not bad for 85kg fatman.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby UlanBatori » 06 Nov 2018 21:33

ricky_v wrote:Do not mean to derail the thread, but can anyone tell what is the long term plan of action, or will the religious come out to battle for their faith, every time sabarimala is opened. The govt and the sc can just wait it out, no? What would happen a year down the line? 5 years? Even if the next govt is somehow miraculously bhagwa-dhari, and passes some law to the effect, will it stand sc's scrutiny of constitutional rights?


IMO (and leaving for my cave now..) sensible people will figure out an avenue where the SC's EVENTUAL decision is honored, wimmens are actually told that if they observe vratam etc they are welcome per their RIGHTS, but it is haraam to EXERT that right. IOW,
True Believers are Welcome But True Believers Observe Custom. Actually going there Ain't "done".

Socially unacceptable.
I assume that the SC also has SOME sense somewhere under their powdered wigs.

This is more or less what is happening now. "RIGHT" to enter is established, and then no one has any real interest in bissing off either the Devotees or the Deity by "exerting" that "right". Even the Marxist Bibi balked.

FYI there is no LAW against going around topless in Mallostan, regardless of gender and age, but even Rehanabibi made sure to have a couple of melons in front of her when she posed that way. :eek: "Custom" besides fear of malaraial mosquitos.

Maybe SM custom will say that all Devotees have to be topless. Equality.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Sachin » 06 Nov 2018 22:12

Dileep wrote:Yes, I watched the video where the Valsan guy walking down the 18 steps and went "what?". He and whoever did the same need to do the penance for that. Let the Thantri decide.

Valsan Thillankeri with proof has said that he climbed up the holy 18 steps with the mandatory offerings. His mistake was that when problems started he gave his offerings pack to another chap and walked down. He being a devotee have already said he has made a mistake and he is willing to take up the corrective steps. The other fellow who did the same mistake is Sankar Das a communist in the Devaswom Board. Will he admit that he is a true devotee and do the corrective steps? ;).

ricky_v wrote:Do not mean to derail the thread, but can anyone tell what is the long term plan of action, or will the religious come out to battle for their faith, every time sabarimala is opened. The govt and the sc can just wait it out, no?

I am not an astrologer to predict the future, but still :). Sabari Mala is one of the temples in Kerala which sees the maximum foot fall during every pilgrimage season. And there have also been modifications in the rituals there (but they were all done by taking the chief priest into confidence and including doing what is known as Deva prashnam (i.e knowing the will of the God). The temple earlier never used to open every month; now they do open for the first five days every Malayalam month.

Supreme Court can wait it out, because after giving out the verdict they do not have any more actions to take. But GoKL does not have that luxury. One thing at least in the present generation of devotees; the uniqueness of Sabari Mala Ayyappa temple is now widely known. So in this generation there would not be many Ayyappas who would willfully bring in young women. Things may change in the future if majority of the Ayyappa devotees (that too cutting across all South Indian states) generally accept that young women should also be allowed. But GoKL will never be able to induce that acceptance, especially by using "communist" tactics. The acceptance should come from the Hindu devotees themselves. One thing I have noticed in Kerala society; people are becoming more religious. The more stressful their personal & professional lives are, the more religious they become. IGP Sreejith's case is the best example.

For the religious their "battle plan" is pretty much ready. Their primary strength is in numbers. GoKL already made the first set of mistakes. They did not check the pulse of the society before they blindly decided to execute the "supreme court" verdict to a T. Secondly, they tried to use very nasty tactics to bring women to Sabari Mala. With these two incidents a common Ayyappa devotee is never going to trust the government (or its agency, the police). So he is going to remain alert. CPI(M) now clearly knows that this was a Bridge Too Far. I already see the government now on a conciliatory mood. GoKL cannot ensure such a big police bandobust every month. Today's deployment was around 5000 police personnel, and the state police cannot do this month on month (especially with the police personnel themselves being against the move). Sabari Mala pilgrimage has got very many unique aspects, one of which is mutual cooperation. The pilgrims have to arrive at a point, then take a bath and then start the trek. The routes are not very wide. Sabari Mala temple complex itself may be a an area of around 2 sq.km. And it is here that a large number of devotees patiently wait. If these people just refuse to move from their positions, no police force will be able to get any unwanted entity any where near the temple. The actual temple is in even in a smaller area, and men with the mandatory offerings are to take the 18 holy steps to reach the main temple and sanctum sanctorum. This place too would be crowded, and things can only be done with the cooperation of the pilgrims already there. General Dyer style tactics will lead to further problems; the pilgrim crowd far outweighs the number of police men. The DGP had boasted about the police bandobust at Sabari Mala, and see how meaningless it all turned out finally. Water cannons, tear gas launchers, face recognition cameras, police commandos; did any of these actually worked out at Sabari Mala? Every body now knows these were mere threats. And Kerala Police cannot do this drama month of month.

If I was GoKL things which would worry me:-
1. Heavy polarisation in the Kerala Hindu community in Kerala. The more this issue remains, the more would be the communal tensions.
2. Police bandobust of this nature cannot be done month on month. State is a pauper so cannot recruit more policemen for Sabari Mala duty alone.
3. The image of the government taking a very bad hit. Political games can be played, but that would not give any immediate solution.
4. The Mandala Kaalam is fast approaching. Gimmicks like Police commando deployment is not going to work out. The state cannot be in a state of alertness for the next 41 days.

Things which I as GoKL may try out:-
1. When the review petitions are heard, get the Travancore Devaswom Board to report that the verdict cannot be executed now.
2. Use the incidents during the last two months, and say that we genuinely tried to push in women but failed.
3. Without much drama-baazi have a genuine talk with the chief priest and the royal family (inside closed doors) and ask if they can help me in any way.
4. Use any trick in the book which would permenantly solve this problem. I realise that none of the other states are actually going to help me in any way to execute the verdict.

As I typed this Janam TV live was showing the "closing ceremony" at Sabari Mala. Harivarasanam sung by K.J Yesudas is now being played, and the lord is now going back to meditation. The temple is now shut down till late next week.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby disha » 06 Nov 2018 22:12

SaiK wrote:/


My mallu is not good. I tend to establish context based on some 20% of the words I understand. For people like me, can you please provide a gist of what actually it is about and what is happening? Preferably in English.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Sachin » 06 Nov 2018 22:25

Karthik S wrote:Indeed, how ironic people who voted commies turned out to be the strongest defenders.

Sabari Mala verdict has actually exposed a lot of other wise ignored stuff. The communists have been caught with their pants down in this case. I have a fair share of communists in my friend's circle. It was fun asking them, whether they were willing to send their wives or young daughters to visit Sabari Mala? That is when reality hit them. All their bravado and "athiest" non-sense don't even have takers in their own home. This was pretty much an "open secret", but now the commies stood exposed. Then came stories of the head-priest (elected) himself is from a Hindu Brahmin family and his father was a hard-core communist. The Hindu Brahmin communists then had a tough time explaining on how this anomaly happened. A card-carrying commie could not even get his son to take up some other job, and remain an atheist. What is the point in spreading an ideology which does not even sell at their own homes? The communists then tried to take a stance that "poor us, we are forced to execute a supreme court verdict". That too was exposed, because of the earlier stupid statements made by some communist leaders and their botched attempt to send women activists up the hill.

Words like "Communist Hindu", "Communist - but believer of god" all have started popping up now :lol:. There are actually lot of people in Kerala who believe in communist ideology (mainly because of the Utopia the ideology promises). Things were fine with them, as they had to show a token step of being athiest, while their women folk could follow the Hindu religion. And a wife/daughter praying for the health of husband/father is quite acceptable in Hindu philosophy. The men could strut around as atheists, while their women folk marched from temple to temple. The verdict from Supreme Court actually exposed the communists for good.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby disha » 06 Nov 2018 22:27

Sachin wrote:This place too would be crowded, and things can only be done with the cooperation of the pilgrims already there. General Dyer style tactics will lead to further problems; the pilgrim crowd far outweighs the number of police men. The DGP had boasted about the police bandobust at Sabari Mala, and see how meaningless it all turned out finally. Water cannons, tear gas launchers, face recognition cameras, police commandos; did any of these actually worked out at Sabari Mala? Every body now knows these were mere threats. And Kerala Police cannot do this drama month of month.


With AK-47 rifles already deployed, all GOKL is to bring in tanks now and declare it Tiananmen Square. Idiocy of Commie GOKL has plumbed newer depths. Again if they want to plumb deeper, they need to be given an even longer rope.

Day before yesterday/Yesterday was a touch and go. Things were on hair trigger and lot of kudos to Swamis for maintaining peace. Any untoward incident would have snowballed into a conflict from which the state and the country may not have recovered.

One part of me hopes that GOKL sees reason. The other part wants to give Commies a long rope to go and hang themselves. It is the life of the Swamis and their well being I fear. But I guess all is in the hands of the real Swami.


Things which I as GoKL may try out:-

3. Without much drama-baazi have a genuine talk with the chief priest and the royal family (inside closed doors) and ask if they can help me in any way.
4. Use any trick in the book which would permenantly solve this problem. I realise that none of the other states are actually going to help me in any way to execute the verdict.


If I were GOKL, I would work with the priest and come up with a certification process for women where only certified women can take the trek till Sannidhanam. The certification involves doing 41 day vratham. The remaining 18 steps and the sanctum sanctorum will be for the devotees who wait their turn.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Sachin » 06 Nov 2018 22:39

disha wrote:My mallu is not good. I tend to establish context based on some 20% of the words I understand. For people like me, can you please provide a gist of what actually it is about and what is happening? Preferably in English

The situation was that three women, whose age was not known landed up at Nada pandhal (the landing below the 18 steps). Two of them looked old, where as one woman's age was suspect. The pilgrims started a protest (by chanting Ayyappa manthras; again no violence). The police then decided to whisk away a protestor, and this led to the pilgrims chasing the police men into the police station and laying a siege to the PS. The police also checked some documents and confirmed that the woman was aged 52 years. But by then the pilgrims had lost the trust factor.

The man speaking on the police loud hailer is Valsan Thillankeri an RSS leader from Kerala. And what he is saying is that:-
1. We have come here as devotees. There could be 10-15 people in the crowd who are trying to cause a riot here. But let us not fall for that.
2. We should do our darshan and also help women (above the age bracket) to have a very peaceful darshan. Help them in what ever way possible.

The reporter then voices over (the visual), that BJP & RSS leaders were there to protest. But they were also playing a conciliatory role after the police confirmed the age of the women. The police actually encouraged this RSS leader to make the speech, and provided him with the loud hailer so that the pilgrims can be pacified. It is quite clear that police was quite helpless here.

Note: This incident is also a clear indication that Sangh had a sizeable presence at the temple complex this day. The pressure tactics adopted by the police did not work out. Infact Valsan Thillankeri (the speaker) himself had arrived at Sabari Mala byepassing all police check points, by taking an unknown route via the forests.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Sachin » 06 Nov 2018 22:57

disha wrote:If I were GOKL, I would work with the priest and come up with a certification process for women where only certified women can take the trek till Sannidhanam. The certification involves doing 41 day vratham. The remaining 18 steps and the sanctum sanctorum will be for the devotees who wait their turn.

GoKL does not need to do any thing new. Such a mechanism already exists. There are very many rituals which are done before a person a starts the pilgrimage. Vruth is just one part of it. There exists the long standing Ayyappa devotees known as Guru Swamis (folks who have made the temple visit at least 18 times). It is they who "initiate" the lesser experienced Ayyappa devotees. It is under the guidance of a Guru Swami that the pilgrims actually prepare their Irumudi Kettu (a bundle of mandatory offerings?). Their own family members (women) stand by in the side. It is with their silent blessings that an Ayyappa pilgrim prepares for the journey. And no Guru Swami is going to help a young woman complete all these rituals. GoKL did not realise this/or deliberately ignored this when they took folks like Rehana Fathima up the hill. How, where & which Guru Swami helped her prepare the Irumudi Kettu?? The police generally do a check at Pamba bathing point. The check point is staffed with WPCs and their job was to stop women (mainly from other states) who try to go up the shrine, mainly due to ignorance of the customs and traditions. This system can be still followed (in-fact K.P did follow this approach today), as the police is only "advising" the women on the customs and traditions.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Dileep » 06 Nov 2018 23:13

There is ample precedence of SC verdicts (or even the holy book of constitution) of questionable sense being delayed indefinitely. So, there is absolutely nothing the SC can do if the GoKL says "there is laa and ardar brablem onlee" and delay things forever. They can legally take a stance that we will not support women if there are protests happening, because there will be law and order issue. The police officer in charge of the area have the power to make that call.

Remember. Media was blocked from going to the hill for two whole days for the reason of "we can't assure your safety onlee". Media... the fourth estate... who has the license of poking their mics on anyone's face anywhere.... blocked for two days.

Like Collector Joseph Alex (character played by Big M) said "For that you must have "Sense, Sensibility and Sensitivity""

For time being, I am enjoying the egg filled face of the so called 'double hearted people's leader.'

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Dileep » 06 Nov 2018 23:23

BTW, at the time of Harivarasanam, there were at least 500 people sitting at the lower level yard, which were mostly RS folk. As a matter of fact, very few Aam Swamys at that point, because most would have preferred to go home. I would estimate the total strength easily thousand or more. Some airtight security the KP managed there!!

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby nithish » 06 Nov 2018 23:48

UlanBatori wrote:V need pic/video pls!!!
An old man with one leg is seen walking using a single crutch.


Oh! So polis conjern about Phundamental Rites only applies to Marxist wimmens? Not citizens with disabilities?


https://twitter.com/thulasirch/status/1 ... 8940590080


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