Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby ramana » 07 Nov 2018 01:18

Dileep, A relevant tweet on RSS/BJP support on #SaveSabarimala

https://twitter.com/Kuvalayamala/status ... 06784?s=19

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby SaiK » 07 Nov 2018 03:33


RSS men, in fight for Sabarimala traditions, break sacred custom... cores of protesters planted themselves on the 18 “holy steps” leading to the temple, raising fists and shouting slogans even as RSS leader Valsan Thillenkery, using a police megaphone, exhorted them to maintain peace. None of them was carrying irumudi (the traditional cloth bundle containing votive offerings), which is a violation of the custom. Only devotees carrying irumudi are allowed to ascend the holy steps, and they have to do so as quickly as possible.


expect CM to file a new Petition if police force is restrained to be used on bhakts (HC order/warning shots given).

Chief minister Pinarayi Vijayan said “certain people” were trying to destroy the peaceful atmosphere in Sabarimala. “They are trying to prevent devotees arriving there for darshan. Real devotees and society will identify such forces,” he told reporters in Kozhikode

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby SaiK » 07 Nov 2018 06:54

Kerala Police unleashes reign of terror
What is Kerala Police up to in Sabarimala temple?

https://www.pgurus.com/kerala-police-un ... of-terror/

All efforts are on to oust the devotees from the temple premises by the police and some of the Democratic Youth Federation of India (DYFI) activists (the youth wing of the CPI-M) deployed at the pilgrimage centre.

All toilets have been locked personally by the Inspector General of Police under orders from chief minister Vijayan.

All lodges have been locked and sealed by the Inspector General of Police (IGP) leaving thousands of devotees high and dry in the premises of the temple

All drinking water services have been cut since Monday evening. Child devotees who reached the shrine since Monday have been left without drinking water and food

Police have been interrogating the devotees by asking questions like why did you come here, who asked you to come here and how long you know this deity Ayyappa,

The police had deployed hundreds of middle-aged women cops wearing tight pants and shirts tried to woo the young male devotees by winking and also by voluptuous looks.

The police have been instructed by the chief minister to make life difficult for all the devotees so that they would stay away from the temple in future

Efforts are in to bring in women in the age group of 10-50 to the shrine,” said a special branch police officer.

lady devotee aged 30 making an effort to enter the shrine, intervention by the devotees made her beat a hasty retreat. The woman, wife of Viji of Chertallai, a CPI-M leader who is an accused in a murder case came to Sabarimala

This decision to admit women of childbearing age to Sabarimala is in gross violation of the customs practiced in the temple. There is every possibility of Pinarayi Vijayan may end up as the last CPI-M chief minister of Kerala,” said Prof Narayanan
.

CPI-M activists too have infiltrated into the groups of devotees with the aim of creating trouble. They hope that the police could be provoked which would lead to a lathi charge or firing.


The Thanthri and the chief priest have been asked to obey the directives from the police, even if it is for reciting the Saranam hymns.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Dileep » 07 Nov 2018 07:12

>>The police had deployed hundreds of middle-aged women cops wearing tight pants and shirts tried to woo the young male devotees by winking and also by voluptuous looks.


This is what happens when "10th grade and wrestling" qualified people write propaganda!!

Propaganda (this is NOT a bad word. The universe is full of that. What do you think the fireflies do?) is an exacting art like cooking. It need to have balance of tastes, flavours and textures. If you want to make your curry a bit extra spicy, you do not empty a can of pepper spray into it.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby hnair » 07 Nov 2018 07:59

The Valsan Thillankari incident is massive egg on face for the Malabar Clique :lol: Even the southern commies are :rotfl: watching the footage of the CM thumping the skies and threatening righteous fire and brimstone at anyone coming in between his chosen wimmen and Lord. And here we have, the TV channels showing the cops pleading with a dude accused of slicing up a commie or two and using police microphone to "soothe the crowds" from going ape-shit on the cops' arse

Btw, my concerns of state and central BJP leadership* remains, but RSS has gone back to its fearless past in Kerala, when a certain sitting Governor and Swamy Satyananda Saraswathy (his soul must be observing this with his usual yevil yindoo smile) started the fight back around the forests of Nilakkal. That old strategist Shree Karunakaran dealt with the situation in his own way, but that was before the power of cellcams and social media. Wonder how Shree Karunakaran would have fared today? Easily much better than this thuggee clique from Malabar

_________________
* The current BJP chief is a hi-profile lawyer and has appeared for a lot of media people, so it was hilarious to see him swat down on the media loons who does not know his legal work. So that was a good appointment, whose fruits hopefully we will see, IF the recent bunch of hanger-ons and time-wasters at the top are kicked out.....

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby hnair » 07 Nov 2018 08:03

Dileep wrote:
>>The police had deployed hundreds of middle-aged women cops wearing tight pants and shirts tried to woo the young male devotees by winking and also by voluptuous looks.


This is what happens when "10th grade and wrestling" qualified people write propaganda!!

Propaganda (this is NOT a bad word. The universe is full of that. What do you think the fireflies do?) is an exacting art like cooking. It need to have balance of tastes, flavours and textures. If you want to make your curry a bit extra spicy, you do not empty a can of pepper spray into it.


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

THIS has been the bane of BJP/RSS' cyber story - unbelievable rubbish like this article are thrown around. Some interesting new groups in FB are "Outspoken", Thrayambaka Keralam etc. Very well executed memes and video clips of a satirical nature

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby SaiK » 07 Nov 2018 08:27


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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Sachin » 07 Nov 2018 11:06

Sabarimala: Police failed to ensure security, crucial meeting planned.
As usual the blame is now entirely on the police. The malayalam news portals generally give a clearer picture on how the police's plans failed. It is now known that the police had used a bullying tactic of bringing in weapons, face recognition cameras, water cannons and tear gas launchers. This may have been required during a political protest and not at a pilgrimage site. It was quite obvious that the police will not be able to use these weapons.

It is now known that RSS had planned their moves for the two day temple opening right after the last month's fiasco. They had actually prepared a roster of their cadre from each Taluk who was to "report for duty" at Sabari Mala. The police intelligence completely missed out this planning and the subsequent operations. RSS cadre also arrived using public transport in smaller numbers, and they came after completing all ritual formalities (for a pilgrim). No way the police would be able to deny entry for the Ayyappas. And one daily reported that this move was also a "trial run" of the Sangh's action plan for the main pilgrimage season ;).

The police also had a "limited scope of police action" at a hill shrine like Sabari Mala. There were inputs from central govt. which said that any attempt of use of force at the hill shrine, may lead to riots in KL and even in other southern states (with Malayalis living their being hit as well). The police's attempt to restrict the inflow of pilgrims as well as setting a time limit for their stay all turned to be futile within hours on Monday (5th Nov.). These tactics will also not work out during the Mandala Pooja season which starts next week. The foot fall is going to be around 2 lakh pilgrims every day.

GoKL has blinked and would now actually start activities which they should have done before bullying pilgrims. They plan to now sit around a table and review the whole episode with every stake holder (which may include the Pandalam Royal Family and the cheif-priest).

Social activist Trupti Desai to visit Sabarimala during Mandalam month. The commies are now actually banging their heads and saying that Trupti Desai is a BJP agent. And she is deliberately making such claims to harrass GoKL further :roll:.

SaiK wrote:expect CM to file a new Petition if police force is restrained to be used on bhakts (HC order/warning shots given).

That most likely would not happen. GoKL has had enough. They have now completely realised that women cannot be taken up the hill shrine without the cooperation of the pilgrims. Using force on a hill top is only going to aggrevate the problem. The area for movement (for both police and the pilgrims) is really limited there. Even if the pilgrims just stand together and move forward in unison, police will find themselves locked in with no area to move. Firing etc will lead to more problems at the shrine, and also all across the state.

hnair wrote:Wonder how Shree Karunakaran would have fared today? Easily much better than this thuggee clique from Malabar

Many people in KL strongly believe that Congress would have handled this very easily. "We welcome the verdict, but would review and get back on the implementation plan"; would most likely be there response. And folks like K.Karunakaran knew the pulse of the police force, and always had very dependable police officers (and the police officers also relied on him). And Karunakaran too faced the ire of Hindus at his favourite temple at Guruvayur. So he would ideally not try what the current CM tried to do. One thing I have observed is that Congress CMs always had prior experience as Home Ministers or Revenue ministers (two critical departments for GoKL). The present CM is more of a Party Secretary of CPI(M) with a limited understanding of every thing. I strongly believe that he is being "taken around" by a group of "advisors" who have their own agendas.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Dileep » 07 Nov 2018 14:43

If K Karunakaran was the CM, this verdict wouldn't have happened.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Javee » 07 Nov 2018 15:42

Before the days of this smooth paved tarmac, people used to walk the hill up, enduring all the wild animal threat, pain and suffering to go see Ayyappa himself. I remember there used to be this famous song in TN where the lyrics would say "Kallum mullum kaalukku methai" - we will cross mountains of stones and thorns to meet you Ayyappa". If police resort to threats, rest assured these folks will not be intimidated. In fact, at least 40-50% of them have this primal instinct to do this every year to bring them some sort of inner peace/happiness. They are not going to stop because of some politician/milords/police are blocking his way.

Sachin, For Nilakkal church they had an all party meeting and finally found a solution where they built the church a little far - that itself is a big win for them.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Dileep » 07 Nov 2018 16:57

What the aam swamy encounter at Sabarimala:
- take a dip in the totally dirty 'holy pamba'.
- trek up 1800ft and then down 400ft over 4km, over mostly concrete path.
- walk barefoot through filth for 5 km.
- Toilets that are absolutely revolting. Still they collect Rs 5 for use.
- Food at high prices in totally unhygenic conditions.
- stand among a tightly packed (chest-to-back/shoulder-to-shoulder) crowd in a 3 ft wide barricaded pathway for 6 to 8 hours.
- flow among the tightly packed crowd all the way up the steps, on the flyover, across the sreekovil for a 2 second darshan
- flow among the crowd down from the pedestal
- walk around through filth covered ground for darshan at the other shrines like Malikappuram
- sleep on bare cement floor on a sheet/mat, with stink of filth and pig excrement in the air
- stand in same 3 ft wide crowd for the 'Ghee Abhishekam' for 3 to 4 hours.
- stand in the same 3 ft wide crowd for second darshan, aravana etc.

And we do that year after year.

I am NOT planning to go this year.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby rsingh » 07 Nov 2018 17:20

----
Last edited by suryag on 08 Nov 2018 02:40, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: deleted irrelevant post

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby SaiK » 07 Nov 2018 17:41

My dad said few decades ago, the moment they opened roads to Pampa, Ayyappa has taken refuge with the tigers.

Nothing like preservation of pristine w/ human occupations. Erumeli route to sannidhanam was the way to realize and enjoy the removal of all ailments and sins. Basic facilities must preserve the those traditions that are now harrassed by bhaktas gullibility having surrendered their freedom to gov controls. Infrastructures and maintenance are key to mass control.

Facilities and lack of right facilities is our problems. It should not be right to wait campaign but right to maintain both traditions and environment that will prevail dharma.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby UlanBatori » 07 Nov 2018 21:06

The other din I happened to c a few pictures looking down on, well.. the center of the Haj pilgrimage, which is the closest I can think to the topic under discussion. True, KSA has tons of money, and the pilgrims from India ride by air, (until recently) courtesy of loot from yindoo temples, courtesy of your kind guvrmand, elected by the 80% majority. Point is, they **SEEM** (I use the word with the usual reservations) to be very well-organized, with modern facilities.

India in general, and KL in particular, may not have the **GOVT*** will or resources to improve matters for the pilgrims at SM (Dileepji, thx for that blast above, I know it must have been even tougher for you to write it than it has been for me to hint at it). BUT IT IS NOT DIFFICULT AT ALL FOR THE RICH HINDUS OF KERALA TO IMPROVE MATTERS.

THAT, imo, is the real war that needs to be waged - and the enemy includes most of the "Holy People" who sit on the Committees and control the temples. First learn to take care of our own. People may be impressed by the ArrEssEss whining about the commie guvrmand locking the latrines, but the real truth is that HINDUS have turned the pure and sacred land of Sabarimala and the Pampa river into one stinkin' sewer. What is the excuse for that? What is the solution, short of stopping the pilgrimage until proper modern spacious facilities are built, and the pathways built to enable a peaceful, quiet and meditative pilgrimage rather than the present "tradition" of herding worse than cattle being taken to slaughter along "NH47"?

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby ramana » 08 Nov 2018 00:15

Dileep wrote:What the aam swamy encounter at Sabarimala:
- take a dip in the totally dirty 'holy pamba'.
- trek up 1800ft and then down 400ft over 4km, over mostly concrete path.
- walk barefoot through filth for 5 km.
- Toilets that are absolutely revolting. Still they collect Rs 5 for use.
- Food at high prices in totally unhygenic conditions.
- stand among a tightly packed (chest-to-back/shoulder-to-shoulder) crowd in a 3 ft wide barricaded pathway for 6 to 8 hours.
- flow among the tightly packed crowd all the way up the steps, on the flyover, across the sreekovil for a 2 second darshan
- flow among the crowd down from the pedestal
- walk around through filth covered ground for darshan at the other shrines like Malikappuram
- sleep on bare cement floor on a sheet/mat, with stink of filth and pig excrement in the air
- stand in same 3 ft wide crowd for the 'Ghee Abhishekam' for 3 to 4 hours.
- stand in the same 3 ft wide crowd for second darshan, aravana etc.

And we do that year after year.

I am NOT planning to go this year.

Dileep after the Crusades were over, the Turks who controlled the Levant made it very difficult to visit Jerusalem in order to starve the faith in Europe. Since military power was unavailable, the Christians in Europe came up with own large Churches and labyrinth gardens to simulate the difficult journey to reach Jerusalem.
Fortunately you are still in the vicinity and no need to give up going for that is what the CPM govt. want to marginalize Sabarimala. The constant attack from the 1950s shows the true objective. Do not let them succeed.
Easy for me to say from a distance but words of encouragement are all we can offer.
And I am sure Ayyappa will act through his own way for the devotees.

UB, Tirupati was also quite difficult to travel to in the 1940s. One State govt officer (not IAS) made the whole process of pilgrim ease a top priority in the late 1940s. His name was C. Anna Rao, he retired in 1960s as he Executive Officer of TTD. he came with the ghat road, the traveler choultries, the 2 and 3 bedroom cottages, the TTD bus service to uphill. THE TTD Chairmen were retired devout politicians who implemented the master plan. It was in the 1980s that everything was politicized with disreputable TTD chairmen (spoils system) and IAS officers appointed as Executive Officers. Now it has been secularized and needs to be taken back by the Hindu devotees.

At a 100K foot level this is Reconquista from the secular state and Sabarimala is the first shot in South India.

That is the war we are in.

Hence my urging people who can to travel to Sabarimala as its part of the battle.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby disha » 08 Nov 2018 02:24

Dileep wrote:I am NOT planning to go this year.


What stops you from providing services (even for a small fee) to fix the some of the mess you have identified? Even in your own small way for mitigating the mess?

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby SBajwa » 08 Nov 2018 02:37

disha wrote:
...<TLDR> Diwali crackers has been thorn in rear for EJs for a long time. EJs find it difficult to convert when local population is tied to certain native practices. Putting constraints and banning such local practices is in for that very reason. ...


I expected trope for EJ and jobs to come out on fireworks ... point is fireworks are pollutants in air, land and water and the insane ones (or unsafe and unsound ones) need to go. Do not tie it religion or even local practices.

This does not take away from the fact that Hindus are under assault and a siege mentality has set in. Everything and anything does not have to be tied to EJ or a mullah. Sometimes I wonder if this is the same siege mentality which we often accuse our neighbours on the north-west of!

Delhi police is under the Ministry of Home Affairs, Government of India not under the Delhi government.


And Delhi state government is under AAP. Both are very true statements. Thanks for picking that bait up., now why the burden of proof to satisfy to a "Hindu" rests with one but not with other(s)?


It has been proven beyond doubt that pollution is caused because Punjab and Haryana government forced farmers to grow paddy later than earlier (before 2011) now to make up for the time farmers quickly burn the left over stubble which blows over to east aka Delhi as oppose to south (Rajasthan) earlier.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby UlanBatori » 08 Nov 2018 03:17

ramana wrote:Hence my urging people who can to travel to Sabarimala as its part of the battle.

Agree. There is HUGE focus on "meditourism" and "eco-tourism" with Houseboats and booze-shaps and other haraam things all over Malloostan catering to tap-dolah paying Gelf and Yoo Ess and North Indian millionaires, so the expertise is very much there.

Ramana: Guruvayoor is an example where I have come to develop empathy for the people who run it. VERY tough problem, tough act to follow. I HAVE screamed about them, but now admire the steady progress.
For one thing, they are SURROUNDED by Muslim areas. For another, there is respectful co-existence. But no doubt there is some difficulty.

First they built a Toilet Block. I think it is 5-story bldg. In the Old days one "went" at the bathing tank, I think. Not acceptable.

Next they brought in a rail connection to 3shivnaam. Rs. 5 round-trip ticket IIRC on the Push-Pull. There are many who use that as their daily single meal ticket from 3shivnaam: Get on the train in the morning, visit the temple, get the good free meal offered, get on the train back. Rs. 5 total expense. No need for driving, nor sitting on the headache/backproblem guaranteeing bus ride over some of the worst-maintained roads in the Dunia. (I mean, it's most flat-land: how tough is it to keep the road maintained, hain? The direct road is so bad that the locals drive through the narrow village roads to avoid that). One CAN go and return in train comfort.

Now (past 5 years esp) the queue-standing has been made far better. They have been experimenting and adapting fast. I am sure most of that tech transfers to SM as well, but the persistent lack/horrible condition of toilet facilities is absolutely inexcusable.

MOST of the area inside as well as around the temple now have roof shelter so an umbrella is not really needed.

Over time they built lots of hi-rise condos, maybe apartments, so that one can arrive overnight, and visit the temple feeling civilized.
They do have lines for geezers (a mercy).

Now I get to the bad part: the worst problem IS the SM "Season". The HUGE hordes of "Devotees" herding through there essentially put the aam Malloo to very bad hardship. People who are used to the idea that they MUST behave like cattle: push hard against person in front and sides to eliminate any air volume. I have NOOOO idea why this is needed: solving Continuity Equation shows easily that the same number of people per second could go through there in very reasonable peace and comfort.

BIG problem there and I am sure in SM, is SECURITY. This is what the polis worry most: the threat of a u-no-what going off there with millions of ppl packed in. All the more reason to make this process orderly and spacious, even if it means setting very tough rules on who CAN visit. Right now they absolutely BAN cellphones. Tougher than the CIA in this respect! No one screams "Media Ban" on that, hain?

Aadhar/other ID based with quotas on number of visits may be essential in the High Season. Also on number of buses allowed per day.

This is the real discussion needed, and the real "Vimochana Samaram" needed for all yindoo temples. Enough of the annual reports of Stampede and this and that. Think of the oldest, weakest, shortest visitor who needs to visit a restroom every 30 mins, and make sure the experience is good for them.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby UlanBatori » 08 Nov 2018 03:22

Of course SM experience is MEANT to be a tough test of devotional endurance. Walk barefoot. Through cold hilly jungles. Occasional prospect of being eaten by tigers. Climb steep steps. Be self-sufficient in Survival Pack. BUT, even there, the experience can be made very civilized.
What u don't want, probably, is the level where it is reduced to a Mount Fuji Culture Appreciation climb etc. That is what I was saying with my pointing to the threat of the Disney-Pandalam Chairlift/tramline etc. I agree that there is no real call for a Summit Cafe either: go there, worship, maybe eat what the temple gives you, get down.


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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Dileep » 08 Nov 2018 07:13

disha wrote:
Dileep wrote:I am NOT planning to go this year.


What stops you from providing services (even for a small fee) to fix the some of the mess you have identified? Even in your own small way for mitigating the mess?


For example?

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby hnair » 08 Nov 2018 07:47

A few weeks old clip, but this about captures the issues facing the commies:




:rotfl:

The caption in whatsapp video forward was even better

പിണറായി അയ്യപ്പനെ തള്ളി പറഞ്ഞു ഗേൾഫിൽ യാചിക്കാൻ പോയപ്പോൾ, അറബി ഇരുന്ന് ദാ ഹരിവരാസനം പാടാണ്

Translation: "Pinarayi Vijayan went to grovel in front of the Arab, after dissing Ayappan only to find to his horror the Arab sitting down and performing Harivarasanam"


Never like fighting one's battle in own backyard..... So when some birathers manages this Lavarence-of-Arabia feat, you stand up and give a standing ovation!

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Karthik S » 08 Nov 2018 08:07

:rotfl:

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby disha » 08 Nov 2018 10:07

Dileep wrote:For example?


You can (and a team of volunteers) can trek to Sabarimala and pick up trash and dispose it properly. Sort out the plastic bottles and maybe in fact pay a Rs. 1 to each person who brings in a plastic bottle (each).

All you target is solid waste which is manageable by your team. Here is something you can check for inspiration https://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report-speak-up-setting-a-precedent-for-beach-clean-up-drives-2461663

On toilets, when I went to Madikeri this year., I took my family to Iruppu falls. The local residents at a corner had set up paid toilet and it was generally maintained clean. Best thing, it had taps and soap to wash hands.

You go there, so you know the problems first hand and you also know the solutions and the most effective and doable ones as well. I think if you have a group of dedicated volunteers and go there often, you can make a difference. And you might even show up on somebody's Mann ki Baat.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Javee » 08 Nov 2018 11:35

Dileep, Sorry to hear man, I hope the drama dies down so you can perform your yearly sojourn.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Dileep » 08 Nov 2018 13:33

Well, the final call will be taken after how the first few days turn out. There are 41 days to the season.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Sachin » 08 Nov 2018 15:22

As they say "All is well on the western front". Main stream media has now gone back to the usual politics and BJP bashing, and soap-opera serials. Sabari Mala has now gone out of the radar. GoKL also seems want to forget the issue. The most foul mouthed and loud mouth CPI(M) ministers have all gone into silence. Kerala Police has now a bigger problem at their hands as one of their Dy.SPs is now on the run, after killing a person by pushing him onto a speeding car.

disha wrote:You can (and a team of volunteers) can trek to Sabarimala and pick up trash and dispose it properly. Sort out the plastic bottles and maybe in fact pay a Rs. 1 to each person who brings in a plastic bottle (each).

P. Vijayan IPS, the Inspector General who was part of the security detail last week and who had proceeded on long leave; this officer had started a good ecological program to keep Sabari Mala clean. It was Punyam Poonkavanam scheme, in which volunteers, pilgrims and the police all worked as a team to keep the forest area clean.

UlanBatori wrote:I agree that there is no real call for a Summit Cafe either: go there, worship, maybe eat what the temple gives you, get down.

This was how it was may be 60-70 years back. The so called Aravana Payasam (pudding) it seems was prepared by the pilgrims themselves using the ingredients brought by them. In the night each pilgrim contributed his share (and time & efforts) to make this pudding, and every one also took a portion back. It was made in some sort of a community kitchen.

Aadhar/other ID based with quotas on number of visits may be essential in the High Season. Also on number of buses allowed per day.

For this to happen, the current "communist/socialist" (i.e police using brute force) way cannot be used. This is bringing a drastic change in the existing system, and there has to be a proper plan to be put up and consensus to be taken from the pilgrims in general. If an entry quota is being rolled out, then there has to be a detailed plan which needs to be made and even shared & discuss with neighbouring states. There has to be a good responsible media campaign to sensitise the pilgrims why such a quota system was needed in the first place. And CPI(M) as a party is never capable of thinking or behaving in these lines.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Dileep » 08 Nov 2018 17:31

If this threat of 'break of custom' was not there, the proposed system of Road head at Nilackal with KSRTC running chain service to Pampa and crowd control by coupons would easily work. Aam Swamy folk are co-operative to a fault, but as we all saw recently, if turned the other way around, they are fierce warriors.

But the limiting number of visits by Aadhar is not going to work. Most people go once a year, and that is very much non-negotiable. Very few people go every month. For people with that much devotion, it is non-negotiable too.

Here are some suggestions for crowd control. This is based on the assumption that the trustworthy police ayyappa of olden days is back.

1. Use AI to find a pattern of visit Pampa-Sannidhanam-Pampa. Seek help from googal if you want.
2. Let AI decide the number of folk that could start from Nilackal at any moment of time. Only that much 'current booking' coupon will be issued.
3. A basic quota can be allocated for online booking, and for booking from various foothill camps like Erumely, Laha etc. Anything surplus from that, plus the hourly calculated quota will be available for current booking at Nilackal.
4. Only bathing and toilet facilities at Pampa. Only water, fruits/biskoot and offerings sold there.
5. Transit queue controls at Pampa and Marakkoottam, where the hourly quota is once again enforced, based on actual tracking data.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby UlanBatori » 08 Nov 2018 18:05

Add glucose packets, call it like Guruvayoor tradition does. Ppl climbing up there need it.
Agree with Sachin that this should come only after guvrmand change. May be a good "Emerging Malloostan" project. I have to form to Request Land Allotment (the main bijnej of EM).

Dileepji, add Queuing Theory to your list of holiday projects :LOL Digital version of Flood. May be closer to electrical analogy too. It produces pretty amazing results. Like why the (idiot?) in front of you is not moving, a full 2 minutes after the light far ahead changed to green. I always assumed that ppl in charge of major ppl-mgmt situations had such traffic-mgmt tools, but after the floods I am pretty sure they go by "seat of the lungi".

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Dileep » 08 Nov 2018 18:50

UB Saar. The only theory that works with Indian Humanity is "Chaos Theory". The only 'siddhantha' that works is 'advaitha'.

Only an AI engine can predict the population flux there. Given the permeation of cell phones, Googal can easily give millions data points. Maybe the 'pichaikkaran' can offer a vazhipadu of building a system for getting him out of the troubles.

The problem is, the commies will tend to give the contract to Keltron, or worse, the dear ULCC, who will turn it over to 'konothil infotech pvt ltd.' whose ppt will claim an international IT power house, having made web sites for multinationals like 'konothil textiles' and 'konothil supermarket'

And here is the deal that I can offer (like the typical "I will offer 1 litre paal payasam if I pass in exam onlee" type deal with the deity). If the SC puts an end to the GoKL aspiration to "ensure compliance", and the situation goes back to the old SNAFU, I will take initiative to try build an AI based system. Maybe powerful allies like nairgolis can help :twisted:

Now, that reminds me to put down what I think about the SC options. What can happen at SC?

- 95% probability for both the writ and review petitions go to the trash can, and the court saying "the order stands"
- 4.9% probability that the court will give some "verbal observation" that the order is not to intended to steamroll the devotees belief by taking activists up etc, and mentioning the need of education and change of minds etc, and finally saying the order stands, ie the govt cannot bar anyone, but not force anyone either. GOOD ENOUGH. Their lordships practically approved status quo.
- 0.1% probability that the case goes for review at a 7/9 judge bench, and stay frozen there. GOOD ENOUGH, until another pro activist CJI takes charge.
- 0% probability that the current order is changed in any way.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby manju » 08 Nov 2018 21:15

Javee wrote:Dileep,
That Tamil message you have posted above is a bit convoluted. Too many bhagavan and Iraivan and the message is not clear. I can send you a crisp message in email. Let me know.


same with kannada... dont offer money part is not very clear

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby manju » 08 Nov 2018 22:02

12 Nov nationwide protest planned. On 13th Supreme Court will decide whether it will consider whether or not to accept the petition (to review the current order allowing women.)

I think every town / city will have this protest.. all ayappa swami groups in each city will be contacted.

Contact your nearest parivaar folks for details

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Dileep » 09 Nov 2018 07:17

manju wrote:
Javee wrote:Dileep,
That Tamil message you have posted above is a bit convoluted. Too many bhagavan and Iraivan and the message is not clear. I can send you a crisp message in email. Let me know.


same with kannada... dont offer money part is not very clear


I am still missing the kannada version for what we put together. Can you help?

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Dileep » 09 Nov 2018 07:24

'Pumpkin sized' headline on the rag today that the Devaswom Board decided to "support women entry" at SC on 13th.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby UlanBatori » 09 Nov 2018 07:30

Dileep wrote: What can happen at SC?

Lets be a bit more optimistic. I think SC might stay the verdict and appoint an SIT (Special Investigative Team) and ask them to report back in 6 mo. U no, on "Modalities of Implementation". That puts it close to/beyond 2019 Election. They can sit on their report for another 6 mo. after that.
Or SC might command that the SIT report when propah fajilities have been built so that TheirHonners can pay a vijit and have elegant potties to "go" there. Separate for aadmi / aurat.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Javee » 09 Nov 2018 08:42

They have queue verification centers to Control the crowd and keep up with the timings. I'm yet to see how this would work during mandala pooja., If the devotees won't leave by purpose.

Check out @surnell’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/surnell/status/1060 ... 23426?s=09

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Dileep » 09 Nov 2018 08:59

Anything at Sabarimala can happen only with the 100% co-operation by the aam-swamy. Once this threat of 'break of custom' is gone, it is possible.

UB Saar.. I appreciate the UBCN 400% scientific deduction. You had been right before.. and you had been wrong before. We will know in a few days anyway.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Sachin » 09 Nov 2018 09:08

manju wrote:12 Nov nationwide protest planned. On 13th Supreme Court will decide whether it will consider whether or not to accept the petition (to review the current order allowing women.)

This would also be the right time to start the "Do NOT donate money at Sabari Mala" campaign, IMHO. Let every Ayyappa know that Travancore Devaswom Board is only going to get their money and for getting them beaten up by Kerala Police.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby hnair » 09 Nov 2018 10:15

Sachin, since you mentioned three senior afsar's names, who took leave from KP, I was wondering if I should post about a few backgrounder about "Punyam Poonkavanam" project. So here goes.

It was started by one of the senior afsars you mentioned (who is very competent in his domain of khaki, a trait he shares with his senior-babu spouse) back in 2011.

My earliest memories of Sabarimala was jumping about in the rainy rocks, avoiding donkey-dung on the trails, left behind by these humble load-bearing animals who keep the logistics train going. That used to be the earliest pollutant, IIRC. Later, plastics and paper made its appearance

Enter the afsar, a true devotee, who was not merely about going up and down the hill in front of a khaki train, as is the wont of afsar's of his stature. In his warm (again a rarity in khaki) affable way, he made sure all the stake holders of the temple were convinced. Thus the program he started back in 2011, was a grand success

The temple Tantri (chief priest) and Melsanthi (head priest) too used to participate in the programme on the first day of the pilgrim season.

The government appointed Mr. Vijayan the Punyam Poonkavanam programme coordinator in recognition of his efforts to make it a success. The Kerala High Court later made him the nodal officer of the project.


We see cargo nowadays being hauled by tractors, instead of trains of these poor beasts of burden.

Anyways, the program went really well, until the present government came along. The afsar prepared a detailed report as Nodal afsar and sent to central govt, on what to do in future, to keep Mala clean. So as part of Swach Bharat initiative, Modi-govt has allocated some good funds for Sabarimala too. State gubmint, as is their wont, decided it should be spent elsewhere and diverted it away from Sabarimala. A certain sitting Governor decided to call BS on this and petitioned Center to allocate more funds. Hon G was sharp - he got it allocated as part of Pilgrimage Tourism allocation, which is site specific and made sure the nodal afsar is in charge :D So Kommizzariat of Kannur gets pissed and decides the afsar is the one who needs to be taught a lesson, because, well, you cant touch The Governor without severe legal (and physical rammifications :lol:). Anyways the poor afsar gets shunted out of hard-core operational posts and gets allocated to school outreach programs etc

And that is when I met him, even while flood relief ops were going on. After a tiring day, a few of us from diverse backgrounds, sat down at this beach close to Technopark and I still remember the afsar laying out solid plans of 30,000 backpacks with supplies for primary school kids. We had a few corporate heavy hitters in our litte gathering, who promised that they will fill those kits from all over the world etc etc. The man sounds so sincere, when he talks about how the basic trait he observes in those who commit violent crime in India is an early school drop out. He says most of them do crime for subsistence and want to rejoin school classes etc and turn a new leaf. This is very unlike what we hear in khanland or west, where being a school dropout is not the primary reason. anyways, I met him a few more times and feel he is a dharmic chap

Back to "Punyam Poonkavanam", I (and a friend who was with me for both occasions) heard the entire story from two sources - the Governor-sir (before he took charge) and a core member of Kannur Kommisariat (who openly hinted afsar was taught a lesson for "hobnobbing with Modi-govt"), about these diversion of funds by state govt. Another example was at Sree Padmanabha Temple (another story!).

The afsar just smiles, whenever I ask him about it. Old school gent. Good for India, if he gets allotted to center!

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Dileep » 09 Nov 2018 11:14

The aam-swamy (like moi) also have high regards to the said afsar just like the corporate heavy hitters :)


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