Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

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Dileep
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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Dileep » 09 Jan 2019 07:54

ramana wrote:Dileep, How many devotees are in custody? Of them how many women?
ramana


Thanks krisna for responding. The same police does squat about the violence during the govt sponsored 'strike' yesterday.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby UlanBatori » 09 Jan 2019 08:26

Porters to carry the irumudikettu? Lot of stuff, u know... folding chair, camp stove, propane cylinder, sleeping bag, chemical port-a-potty, Parfum, binoculars, water heater, coffee maker, power pack for refrigerator, refrigerator, laptop computer, videocamera, energy bars, bottles of rum and brandy.
I don't know about 40 days penance, but if it were just 40 days sans bath, many would have no problem.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby ramana » 09 Jan 2019 09:26

Krisna thanks.
So peeve has unleashed the police on devotees.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Yagnasri » 09 Jan 2019 09:44

PV seems to have realized that he/they have nothing to lose now. So better to go all the way. I fear there will be use of force from now onward.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Sachin » 09 Jan 2019 10:51

krisna wrote:~ 750 remanded

This is the important number. The other numbers are often misleading, as booking cases is the easiest thing to do. For quite some time K.P has a record in India for registering the highest number of cases/FIRs. There is also a trend in K.P to record a higher number of F.I.Rs to prove that a PS is "performing higher than expected". For example K.P SHOs regularly lodge multiple F.I.Rs for the same incident; for example when a group is caught for drinking in public separate cases are booked on each individual.

ramana wrote:So peeve has unleashed the police on devotees.

Yagnasri wrote:PV seems to have realized that he/they have nothing to lose now. So better to go all the way. I fear there will be use of force from now onward.

Commie-Nazi's idea seems to be cause maximum damage to the temple & the faith system before Hon.SC hears the case next time around. They have already misused the current verdict to the hilt. Now even if the Hon.SC modifies the verdict, or goes for a status quo pending a re-hearing; the commies can still say they tried bringing renaissance in the limited time they got. And if that is not the case, then commies will ensure that the temple & faith associated with it are damaged for ever. What ever the X'ian fanatics could not do in 1950s a culture-less group of Hindus (!?) from Kannur would be able to do it in 2019.

The Kerala High Court how ever has not taken things lightly, and have asked very pointed questions to GoKL (for which they were fumbling for answers). The commies have now set their guns on the chief-priest; with he too planning for a show a down.

The beauty of things is how ever that if Hon.SC takes a final call on the verdict, and if it favours the temple then there are very easy techniques to bring back normalcy at the hill shrine (and also across the state). There are parihara kriyas which can be done with all pomp & splendour, and it is back to normal. But keeping the whole thing in "suspended animation" is leading to a situation where routines at other big temples in Kerala would be affected, and there are going to be more social unrest for more time. It is also the election time so expect political parties also to use this issue to the hilt. The strong armed tactics of the police also cannot be continued for long as there is a very high polarisation within the police force. They may not mutiny, but the cohesion in the police force would soon be history if things go the current way.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Karan M » 09 Jan 2019 14:24

After all this, if KL H's still vote for CPM etc...

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Kashi » 09 Jan 2019 16:07

Karan M wrote:After all this, if KL H's still vote for CPM etc...


And they will continue to do so...because...well...

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby abhijitm » 09 Jan 2019 16:30

How come sabrimala PIL is not an urgency for SC to hear? can't they not just put the earlier decision on temporary hold and stop this madness for a while? It seems SC is in full support of KL gov. It seems there is no pressure from attorney general of central gov. So they are in agreement too. Don't expect any different verdict when SC hear PIL.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Karan M » 09 Jan 2019 18:40

Kashi wrote:
Karan M wrote:After all this, if KL H's still vote for CPM etc...


And they will continue to do so...because...well...


Stockholm syndrome in full blown action.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby darshhan » 09 Jan 2019 18:52

Karan M wrote:
Stockholm syndrome in full blown action.


More than stokholm syndrome, it is great divide between Ezhavas(cpm) and Nairs(congress) which is in play. One would have thought with universal literacy, Kerala would be the last place to witness casteism. But sadly that is not the case. Both the above groups till now have been unable to work with each other keeping in mind the greater good of Hinduism. And this is one of the major causes of BJP underachievement in Kerala.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Karan M » 09 Jan 2019 18:55

If both sides vote for anti-Hindu groups, bar the rare few who can see through the BS, then both are suffering from Stockholm syndrome. They aren't alone in it. After all Y caste folks in UP vote for a man, "their leader" who famously said, I dont care how many Y's you have to shoot, not a single M must be hurt etc. Our fellow citizens are unable to discern how they are being used for votes by the very same groups who loathe their culture and whatever they stand for.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Dumal » 09 Jan 2019 19:37

Kashi wrote:
Karan M wrote:After all this, if KL H's still vote for CPM etc...


And they will continue to do so...because...well...


KL H's don't have to vote for the Commies, if they want to give them a slap on the wrist.

They will gladly vote for the Congies in their place, as they have done forever! Already people are going ecstatic when they see some vague news about Kapil Sibal representing the SM defendants in the SC or when some rumor of Congies strategizing to seek and support an ordinance on SM.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby krisna » 09 Jan 2019 19:48

request posters not to hurt KL Hindus regarding commies winning elections. This is a legacy issue which festered for long.
they will come out of it. It will take time. Many of us in various parts have had this problem with varying damages- be it in now terroristan or north eastern parts or in maosist infested areas. All need some light in good or bad form.
Now KL are experiencing the bad form. please encourage them in all social media to come out of commie infestation of mind.

remember-- all good things come to an end-- so do all bad things.
Nothing is permanent sometimes damage may be difficult to recover.But still dont lose hope. encourage encourage.things will move and become better.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby krisna » 09 Jan 2019 19:59

darshhan wrote:
More than stokholm syndrome, it is great divide between Ezhavas(cpm) and Nairs(congress) which is in play. One would have thought with universal literacy, Kerala would be the last place to witness casteism. But sadly that is not the case. Both the above groups till now have been unable to work with each other keeping in mind the greater good of Hinduism. And this is one of the major causes of BJP underachievement in Kerala.


caste system has been hanged onto Hindus. one should read about british census and catse system. -can search for it on internet. plenty of material available. british legalised caste system. from 1857 onwards to 1921-- caste system with census had become hardwired onto Indians by birth. caste which was never in vogue for centuries now became the new norm. This has continued even today with govt support. socio-political dynamics have ensured it never goes away.

Also one should understand the zamindari system which worsened the inequality in some parts of India. This had a strong support of britshits . Lot of bad characters in villages were allowed to become powerful leaders in local areas to become zamidnars to enforce britshit taxation.and son on.
This conditons were ripe for commie to ideas to spread. Hence bengal and kerala fell to commies.

Curioulsy minorities never fell to commies. even if they are charmed by commies- never ever gave up their relgion in India.Only Hindus became more virulent against Hindu practices. This is because their ideas were augmented by JLN policies in damaging Hindus customs and traditions.He being an original cononut at the highest position

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Dileep » 09 Jan 2019 21:22

I would venture to suggest that if you ride a high horse without knowing the lay of the land, you risk falling down.

It 'almost seems' that you think BJP is 'entitled' to the votes of KL yindoos, simply because BJP holds some kind of license/charter for the same or something. If you want KLY votes, you got to earn that by whatever strategy and tactics you choose.

Making fun of, unfortunately, is very unlikely to work.

For a moment, let us assume that it is indeed "Stockholm Syndrome". So, what are you going to do to someone suffering from that condition? Making fun of them? Or working with them to win them over?

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Dileep » 09 Jan 2019 21:25

Meanwhile, one Manju who failed twice to make the trip, claims that she disguised herself as an old lady and completed the darshan. Police Intelligence have not yet confirmed this. They will do so only after the temple closes after Makaravilakku and before SC takes the case. I wouldn't be surprised if we see 'evidence' of many such intrusions being presented to the SC.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Supratik » 09 Jan 2019 22:51

One more woman is claiming to have entered the temple on Tuesday.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby UlanBatori » 10 Jan 2019 00:07

Suppose SC says NOPE! No 10 < wimmens age < 50 permitted.
Say one of these Activists then goes up there, disguise and all. Maybe next year.
Gets uncovered, no pun intended.

What then? She gets sent to jail for ... what exactly? Worshipping?
Or .. faaar worse, gets lynched by mob/vigilantes. What then?

This is a tiger's tail that both sides have happily caught.

Whatever the temporary winner/loser, both history and time are on the side of the wimmens who want to go there. This is why it is essential to change the narrative so that the war is about something else.

Lavolin case, anyone? Flood mismanagement? State economy broke? Highways not coming up? Trains rarely run on time?
Last edited by UlanBatori on 10 Jan 2019 00:20, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Karan M » 10 Jan 2019 00:09

Go back a few pages and see the height of the horse and who has been riding it.

For instance, characterizing concerns of north Indian folks as being Paki, implyingthe BJP and it's voters etc are often bigots, anti-secular.

The refrain that Kerala as some mythical part of Utopia, so different from the rest of India, so different in it's behavior, etc.

Yet. Behaving just like the rest of India in making similar, silly mistakes.

If you can't stand some gentle ribbing, then good luck in pushing other folks buttons and expecting they won't shake their head at what's been going on at your end.

Stockholm syndrome reflects unfortunate victimhood.

Claiming claiming there is no extremism in your neck of the woods (while the poor NIA sods are busy running around with this, that notice about ISIS).

I grew up in north and south India. I am an equal opportunity observer. And I well remember the threats KL M's used to make about "bringing our boys from Malappuram" and the rise of SFI etc. This was when I was in college, way back. I don't see it any different as UP Ms talking up their contacts in Azamgarh and threatening locals.

When you start acknowledging the reality, that KL is in the same boat as rest of India, and there is no free lunch (BJP support etc) then things will change.

Otherwise, as a neutral observer, I am eerily reminded of the pride Kashmiri pandits had in their "unique" culture and how things developed in decades thereafter.

You are electing those who are disenfranchising you, insulting those who tacitly and even overtly support you (yindoo conservatives who see parallels to what is happening in KL), while constantly playing up and speaking the usual agit prop of those who stand with your opponents.

Not really a great strategy. But hey, what do I know. I can only shake my head at what's going viz. a deity I revere and am informed by you folks, that it's your local matter, KL is exceptional and rest of India is clueless...we clearly have no idea of having seen similar stuff before. You have your own Ayodhya moment, but you won't acknowledge it.

Dileep wrote:I would venture to suggest that if you ride a high horse without knowing the lay of the land, you risk falling down.

It 'almost seems' that you think BJP is 'entitled' to the votes of KL yindoos, simply because BJP holds some kind of license/charter for the same or something. If you want KLY votes, you got to earn that by whatever strategy and tactics you choose.

Making fun of, unfortunately, is very unlikely to work.

For a moment, let us assume that it is indeed "Stockholm Syndrome". So, what are you going to do to someone suffering from that condition? Making fun of them? Or working with them to win them over?

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Karan M » 10 Jan 2019 00:32

PS folks I hang around with are mallus, good friends from ages, etc but that's not the point, many things to admire, like the fact the state is not a concrete jungle like the rest of India and has at least retained it's identity beyond crazy chase of modernity.

my social media feed has many KL folks proudly supporting similar rubbish, eerily silent on this issue and making statements on how faith is regressive, yet making a case for minority etc exceptionalism. Let's just pretend there is no problem and carry on.

When I posted asking for KL flood relief some months back, many responses were already mocking these kind of responses.

This is what all this time,24/7 tomming of KL exceptionalism and mocking others does.

But hey, what do I know. Go ahead, shoot the messenger.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby disha » 10 Jan 2019 02:10

There is a naarthi muhavara (north saying) "Laatoen ke bhoot batoein se nahin maante" (Ghosts of kicks do not get convinced through talks). Maybe making fun of "them" is the most benign thing to do. And one can work with the other only if the other wants to work as well, not climb a high horse.

Dileep wrote:For a moment, let us assume that it is indeed "Stockholm Syndrome". So, what are you going to do to someone suffering from that condition? Making fun of them? Or working with them to win them over?


And this is true.

I would venture to suggest that if you ride a high horse without knowing the lay of the land, you risk falling down.


Though who is really on the high horse and who really knows the lay of the land, even if it is their own land is debatable
Last edited by disha on 10 Jan 2019 02:14, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby disha » 10 Jan 2019 02:14

UlanBatori wrote:Whatever the temporary winner/loser, both history and time are on the side of the wimmens who want to go there. This is why it is essential to change the narrative so that the war is about something else.


The war is about control of religious institutions and rituals and more importantly about equal opportunity and equal treatment of *all* faiths.

Equating access for women of child bearing age to Sabarimala should also immediately follow allowing women to go to masjids and having women clergy in church.

One cannot have unequal equal opportunity laws.

The review petition in SC should be simple. SC targeting a particular temple has created inequality and is unconstitutional and communal. SC should come up with a comprehensive guideline on what constitutes equality in *all* religious institutions drawing upon the Indian constitution. SC cannot be selective.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby chetak » 10 Jan 2019 03:25

disha wrote:
UlanBatori wrote:Whatever the temporary winner/loser, both history and time are on the side of the wimmens who want to go there. This is why it is essential to change the narrative so that the war is about something else.


The war is about control of religious institutions and rituals and more importantly about equal opportunity and equal treatment of *all* faiths.

Equating access for women of child bearing age to Sabarimala should also immediately follow allowing women to go to masjids and having women clergy in church.

One cannot have unequal equal opportunity laws.

The review petition in SC should be simple. SC targeting a particular temple has created inequality and is unconstitutional and communal. SC should come up with a comprehensive guideline on what constitutes equality in *all* religious institutions drawing upon the Indian constitution. SC cannot be selective.


They had the golden opportunity to this after 2014.

they could have tackled the Hindu temple control and also the RTE.

A JOINT SESSION OF PARLIAMENT WOULD HAVE SEEN THESE THROUGH.

This is not the judiciary's business. The legislative has to act decisively.

None would have interfered to stop the required constitutional amendments in 2014 because there was real shock and awe at Modi's arrival and all political parties were badly demoralized. There was real fear in the press, among media houses, presstitutes, and paid, sold out journo ladies and gentlemen of the night.

FORGET USING THIS TO MAKE JUST ONE SALUTARY EXAMPLE, INSTEAD, THEY WENT AHEAD, MINDLESSLY GRINDING THIS GOLDEN CHANCE INTO THE MUD.

A golden opportunity was lost by a misplaced sense of morality by seemingly wanting to appear FAIR, the fatal Hindu genetic flaw that surfaces most awkwardly when its least required and always does the maximum self damage when it so appears.

These guys are political novices who are ignorant of the long game. Don't they know that the garbage of 70 odd years cannot be cleaned out in just one term??.

You don't win elections in India by building roads and toilets for INGRATES, you win by being visible and responsive to the people who voted for you in the first place.

Of course, build infrastructure but never forget the "being visible and responsive to the people who voted for you"

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby nachiket » 10 Jan 2019 04:24

Dileep wrote:It 'almost seems' that you think BJP is 'entitled' to the votes of KL yindoos, simply because BJP holds some kind of license/charter for the same or something. If you want KLY votes, you got to earn that by whatever strategy and tactics you choose.

I completely agree. The BJP is not entitled to the votes of KL Hindus (or anyone else for that matter). They need to earn those votes. I am curious though about what the successive Commie and Cong admins have done for KL Hindus that has earned them their votes for decades. Would love to be enlightened.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby nachiket » 10 Jan 2019 04:36

Hindus seem to remember the BJP when their rights are threatened or infringed upon and blame them for not doing anything or not doing enough. Yet when the time for voting comes they go back to the same minority pasand or caste based parties who have never lifted a finger to do anything for Hindus. And this is not limited to KL by any means. It is observed across the whole of the country.

Even during the Jallikattu protests everyone and their cat was immediately pointing fingers at Modi and the BJP, the party which had barely any presence in Tamil Nadu. The people of my hometown Mumbai, were outraged after the esteemed Home Minister of MH said his infamous words after the 26/11 attacks "Bade bade shehero me choti choti batein hoti reheti hai" (Such small things keep happening in big cities). Yet, they turned around and gleefully voted the same bunch of idiots to power in 2009/10 in the state and the center.

I'm pretty sure at this point that when the demographic changes in WB have their inevitable consequences and the Hindu population is under siege, they will shout for the BJP to ssave them while their beloved Didi whom they voted for dons a burkha and sings azaan.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby disha » 10 Jan 2019 05:55

chetak wrote:
They had the golden opportunity to this after 2014.

they could have tackled the Hindu temple control and also the RTE.

A JOINT SESSION OF PARLIAMENT WOULD HAVE SEEN THESE THROUGH.


Chetak Saar, that would be putting the cart before the horse. SC decried that Triple-Talaq is unconstitutional and now the bill is in RS.

Similarly SC could have declared as part of the Sabarimala ruling that all religious places need to be equal opportunity and vacated the judgement and/or given a verdict on lines of Triple-Talaq. Instead SC went into poetry.

Here SC failed. Blaming the executive or the legislature is just plain wrong and wishful thinking.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Dileep » 10 Jan 2019 07:36

To make a few points clear rather than to individual posts:

1. The Sabarimala protest started with ALL parties including BJP and RSS on the OPPOSITE SIDE, and ran successfully for almost a week, before BJP and RSS got into the bandwagon, realizing that it was a huuge mistake not to support. So, the notion that we are demanding BJP help is incorrect. We appreciate the help and support. But we are weary of the half heartedness shown by some of the leaders. (and cluelessness by some other)

2. We are really scared that the BJP strategy might BRING BACK the Commies by taking Congi votes. I want to put the right message across to prevent that at any cost.

The core issue is, I am demanding a change in the BJP narrative in the state.

You may assert that the current narrative is right. But it ain't working with me at least.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Karan M » 10 Jan 2019 07:37

I have a simple query after seeing the drubbing BJP got in three states, where from most accounts, BJP did deliver on sabka saath, sabka vikas. What guarantee is there that BJP will remain in power after picking fights with the entrenched c-system. The voters will be selfish and vote them out. BJP leaders will face fake cases, persecution etc. So why should they be self-sacrificial goats for the rest of us?

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Dileep » 10 Jan 2019 07:38

I agree with UB Saar. The only possible end game (be it one, ten or hundred years) is universal women entry at SM. How we get there in an acceptable way for the masses of devotees is the only question.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Karan M » 10 Jan 2019 07:43

If you are unhappy with the BJP cluelessness that is one thing.

What drove the posts about Ayodhya, references to Pakistan, secularism, implying that you need a non BJP party which is "secular" and good enough, claims that BJP supporters want to murder everyone and similar hyperbole?

I see even more extreme posts about KL exceptionalism in this thread. This basically implies you don't/won't identify with the bulk of BJP core voters who are fed up of p-sec policies and favor a robust counter narrative and policies.

By all means start your own party and stand alone. Supratik suggested that very course. You can draw up all sorts of nitpicky rules and laws.

However, it's simply untenable to run with the hares and hunt with the hounds.

You can't keep insulting the BJP and it's supporters by implying they are double-dealers, uncouth and bigots while insisting they should support you exactly on your terms, and after all that, turn around and state "x" state is special, it votes per what it wants and hence will vote CPM.

Meanwhile, your special issue, is nowhere different from the same emotions that drive the "narthies". Pray tell me, you are upset about external intervention in one temple. Naarthies see their most revered Gods' (note plural) janmabhumi/karmabhumi taken over and trampled every day, post invasions and are patiently waiting for some verdict or the other, yet they are bigots for getting upset?

RSS folks die in the dozens in KL, yet that is ignored and they are called double- dealers. All I see is complaining that they were on the wrong side on this issue, and they changed course. So they did. I don't see anyone else changing theirs.

If any of those BJP/RSS guys see the theme of the discussions, they will quite unsurprisingly, not exactly be motivated to stand in your corner. No human wants to be sacrificial cannon fodder, disposed of post event.

Any political strategist worth their salt, would see all this and tell his party to focus on more winnable states with more voter loyalty or chances of developing it.

And they will just take votes wherever they can.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby UlanBatori » 10 Jan 2019 07:52

disha wrote:
UlanBatori wrote:Whatever the temporary winner/loser, both history and time are on the side of the wimmens who want to go there. This is why it is essential to change the narrative so that the war is about something else.

The war is about control of religious institutions and rituals and more importantly about equal opportunity and equal treatment of *all* faiths.
Equating access for women of child bearing age to Sabarimala should also immediately follow allowing women to go to masjids and having women clergy in church.
One cannot have unequal equal opportunity laws.
The review petition in SC should be simple. SC targeting a particular temple has created inequality and is unconstitutional and communal. SC should come up with a comprehensive guideline on what constitutes equality in *all* religious institutions drawing upon the Indian constitution. SC cannot be selective.

Exactly. I can buy that. Forget Review Petishun, this should be a formal case, but naming names of **** and &&&&&& institutions that practice gender inequality. Break the dam of Uniform Civil Code.
Done right it will turn the present commies' glee into a total rout. They will be blamed by one and all.

Abdul should be able to march into nunnery to converse with 72 houris right here on Dunia. After all the idea of "Naishtika Brahmachari" was dissed by the SC, hain? Equality is equality.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Karan M » 10 Jan 2019 09:03

nachiket wrote:Hindus seem to remember the BJP when their rights are threatened or infringed upon and blame them for not doing anything or not doing enough. Yet when the time for voting comes they go back to the same minority pasand or caste based parties who have never lifted a finger to do anything for Hindus. And this is not limited to KL by any means. It is observed across the whole of the country.

Even during the Jallikattu protests everyone and their cat was immediately pointing fingers at Modi and the BJP, the party which had barely any presence in Tamil Nadu. The people of my hometown Mumbai, were outraged after the esteemed Home Minister of MH said his infamous words after the 26/11 attacks "Bade bade shehero me choti choti batein hoti reheti hai" (Such small things keep happening in big cities). Yet, they turned around and gleefully voted the same bunch of idiots to power in 2009/10 in the state and the center.

I'm pretty sure at this point that when the demographic changes in WB have their inevitable consequences and the Hindu population is under siege, they will shout for the BJP to ssave them while their beloved Didi whom they voted for dons a burkha and sings azaan.


Exactly. Loyalty is a two way street. Indian voters are quite self centered, focused on their pet peeves and ditch the BJP at the drop of a hat. Most couldn't give a fig for high falutin concepts like Dharma, national concerns the likes of which members in this fora obsess over.

Why would the party stick it's neck out and wage full blown fratricidal war on the behalf of such a base who won't stick by it.

Similarly, when the party gets in power, it seems to become more and more leftist, often forgetting who elected it, in the fear that by not doing so, they will lose the elections. Their desire to be broad based reflects their fundamental insecurity.

It's a chicken and an egg problem and voter behavior is also of concern, not merely the party's actions or lack thereof.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Kashi » 10 Jan 2019 10:53

Mean-e-while in God's own country, this is floating around on twitter


Advaita @AdiShankaraa
She disguised herself as an old lady and entered #SabarimalaTemple today. #Sabarimala issue is never about equality, it's an undeclared war by Hindu hating 'Abrahamic + Communist' alliance. Can the gullible Hindus wake up from their secular sleep?

Image

Can Dileep-ettan, Sachin-ettan, comment on this?

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Dumal » 10 Jan 2019 10:54

Dileep wrote:1. The Sabarimala protest started with ALL parties including BJP and RSS on the OPPOSITE SIDE, and ran successfully for almost a week, before BJP and RSS got into the bandwagon, realizing that it was a huuge mistake not to support. So, the notion that we are demanding BJP help is incorrect. We appreciate the help and support. But we are weary of the half heartedness shown by some of the leaders. (and cluelessness by some other)


How does the bolded part above tally with what you said right after in this message?

Dileep wrote:I agree with UB Saar. The only possible end game (be it one, ten or hundred years) is universal women entry at SM. How we get there in an acceptable way for the masses of devotees is the only question.


So you agree, as an interested KL person, that in the long term universal entry (whatever that means) is where we will be, which was just precipitated by the SC's judgment. So all you want now is for it to happen in "an acceptable way for the devotees"? So with this much of evolution in thinking having taken place over these past several months, you believe BJP/RSS sitting tight for "almost a week" is what killed the goose?

If all it takes is to make the transition be acceptable to the devotees, let's see how it is articulated clearly and how much support it will have both with the devotees as well as with the SC.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Dileep » 10 Jan 2019 13:34

Yet another eventuality is for each of us to die. The only question is how to postpone it, and when it actually happen, how to make it the least painful, both for the 'dier' and the affected ones.

Look, I am an ardent devotee, and absolutely don't want the custom to change (and I don't want to die). But I am pragmatic enough to accept that eventually universal entry will happen some day (and I will die some day).

Now, the question is, whether I accept the forced and full of hidden agendas by the BIF to gain universal entry? That would be like saying, OK, let me eat this poisoned food and die now, rather than die when it is my time naturally.

Anyone can disguise and gain entry to any temple. Similarly, anyone can carry forbidden materials (meat, blood etc) in a bundle. These can not be prevented. In fact, you should not be worried about such things. What matters is what is done openly. I think this disguise act can be treated as 'hurting religious sentiments' and a case filed.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Sachin » 10 Jan 2019 15:19

Not bothering to quote individual posts.

On the topic of who should have requested each other's help first; the BJP or the Ayyappa Devotees in Kerala. Every BJP supporter should have to acknowledge a simple fact in Kerala, BJP was a non-entity in electoral politics. In the last 50+ years history of Kerala, BJP never managed to sell itself to the voters and neither did the Kerala people find any need to approach them for help. The Communist parties and Congress have kind of ran the show; without causing great damage to any one. These two parties were able to meet the expectations of the Kerala people, including Hindus and BJP also could not raise any issue which reached the sentiments of Kerala Hindus.

This is for the first time the Kerala Hindus seeing a very favourite temple of theirs being completely destroyed. Till then they were all drinking the cool-aid of 100% literacy, and Kerala being an emirate of the middle eastern sheikhdoms with Yeevil Naarth shown as the villain. The Kerala Hindus never saw a bomb bursting right on their faces, until Sabari Mala verdict happened. So BJP supporters who now say that Kerala Hindus deserve this because they did not support BJP earlier is actually expecting Kerala Hindus to be good astrologers. Now things have changed and Kerala Hindus sensing danger would approach any group who can help them. If BJP still wants to keep away; it is upto them. But looks like BJP too does not want to do that, as they too supported the devotees.

From what I see; Sabari Mala temple is now going to be in a perpetual turmoil for more years to come. I am not expecting for wonders to happen on Jan 22nd. By taking two women on the sly the chief minister did a kind of a rape of a virgin, and then threw her out. It was to kind of show that the woman is a waste now, and there is no point in trying to protect/save her. She (the temple & associated faith system) has been "destroyed" and that was the message which Pinarayi Vijayan and his backers wanted to show. The chief priest did some damage control by doing some purification rituals. Then the whole main stream media tried to spread rumours of more women entering the shrine etc (one was a Sri Lankan woman and another a lady from TN), but they could all be broken by efforts of social media and channels like Janam TV. The last was the woman activist coming in dressed as an old woman; which again seems to be with the passive support of GoKL. So to summarise; the Sabari Mala temple is now a free for all and never the holy hill shrine like last year.

What is happening is a media blitzkrieg reminding the Hindus in Kerala that they have lost the war, and it is now better to give into the communists (and their non-Hindu backers). To be frank, a lot of people have also reached a level to give up. But I also see (just one this morning) in which Ayyappa bhakthas still saying that all is not lost, unless we stop trying. The Kerala HC have now asked GoKL to explain their decision to send up woman activists up the temple. And this woman going up in a fancy dress too may actually harm the government stance. Till date; there was no woman without dubious credentials who even bothered to come to the hill temple. Every woman right from Rehana Fathima to the Fancy-dress wallah were all here to prove a point. This I guess is also against the letter & spirit of the supreme court verdict, which only lifted the "ban" on women devotees.

The communists and break india forces too seems to be not relying too much on Supreme Court, as now I see them opening multiple battle fronts on the temple. The chief priest is targetted (Brahminical hegemony), the whole issue is shown as a Dalit v/s upper castes issue, and every possible source of fissure in the society is now being hyped up. Which kind of reaffirms my feeling that Sabari Mala temple is now never going to be the same. There could be more systematic attempts to destory this temple and its faith system (which can be used as a temple for else where).

As I see it, this would be more or less the Rama Janma Bhoomi of South India. In RJB we hear of Hindus offering some prayers, and kind of keeping it as a temple and the same may happen in Sabari Mala also where there would Ayyappa bhakthas trying to put up resistance and the government trying to damage the temple further. For how long, I really don't know. One thing for sure, I don't think Hinduism in Kerala is now going to be the same.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby UlanBatori » 10 Jan 2019 17:50

In all this it is useful to remember (as I hear) that wimmen entry was always a fact at SM as long as it was Special Ppl. choroonu for Brat bin Maharaja, accompanied by his mom etc. There are photos to prove this, posted at this dhaga many hartals and lathicharges and Warnings ago, hain? Other celebrities (?)

Now the definition of Special Ppl has been clarified to include Those Whom the CM Designates. Nothing has changed. No reason to get depressed.

The Brinjejej and VIPs of yesteryear did not do :P at the devotees after visiting, they let them continue to face the 41-day penance and grinding rigors of the pilgrimage without disillusionment. The Modern Brinjejej-e-Commiestan ActiPests are going there precisely to :P Ignore them.

Rakshasas have tried bissing on sacred rituals since the first Veda. That does not make the Vedas irrelevant.

Somnath was looted and destroyed by rakshasas from Afghanistan so many times. Look at Somnath today. And look at Afghanistan.

SD survives. Long after PV and Commies are gone from Kerala, SD will survive.

Trying to set up a 100% Acti-Pest Filter (APF) is as futile as the old Sultan standing on the beach and commanding the waves to recede. Defining Success by that metric is futile and counterproductive. Sure, if the Govt spend Rs. 20lakh per APF they can get them a privileged Special Tour, coming in by ambulance, going down by sewer for all I care. Same as before. The Tantri should pls devise a less strenous Punyaham. Like smoke some "sambrani" which is the accepted way to drive away mosquitos.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby chetak » 10 Jan 2019 18:12

another "activist"??

This is quite sick.

was her "devotion" also dyed??


Devotion Or Desecration? 36 Year-Old Enters Sabarimala After Dyeing Hair Grey, Says Will Keep Visiting


Devotion Or Desecration? 36 Year-Old Enters Sabarimala After Dyeing Hair Grey, Says Will Keep Visiting

Image


by Swarajya Staff - Jan 10 2019,

Dalit activist Manju disguised as an old women to enter Sabarimala (pic via Twitter)
A 36-year old woman from Kerala has claimed that she entered the Sabarimala temple after dyeing her hair white on 8 January, reports Deccan Chronicle.

A social media (Facebook) group named ‘Renaissance Kerala towards Sabarimala’ has also posted a series of videos and photos of the activists. The activist, identified as Manju, is reportedly an active worker of a left-leaning outfit called the Mahila Dalit Federation.

"I travelled from Thrissur by bus and didn't face any resistance as a young woman devotee, even from other devotees. I was in the temple for around two hours, for various rituals", Manju was quoted saying.

“I came as an ordinary pilgrim. But, of course, to dodge protestors, I dyed my hair white and pretended to be an aged woman. Nobody noticed me and I will continue my visit in future also,” she added.

The group has uploaded pictures of Manju which show her dye her hair grey to appear elderly.

The entry of two women in their forties on 2 January has created a law and order crisis in the state. The Kerala High Court had also asked Kerala’s communist government to file an affidavit on the circumstances under which the two women entered Sabarimala.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Prasad » 10 Jan 2019 19:09

SD survives. Long after PV and Commies are gone from Kerala, SD will survive.


Commies have to be 'sent' by somebody, for them to go. Unless somebody stands up n fights, they wont.

Sachins post only illustrates how idiotic it was for both Kerala & WB yindoos to follow the commie line and ignore the recent history staring at their face - moplah riots in KL and WB has enough history starting from before the partition of bengal. Now theyre with no instituitional backing and screwed without outside help.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby UlanBatori » 10 Jan 2019 19:42

Which is why I say co-opt their base out from under them, don't fight on their terms by their rules. Commies won't go until yindoos learn to read and think. The pic in the Matrubhoomi said it all: Old lady with forehead filled with chandan and bhasmam standing with arm outstretched as part of The Wall. Ppl here wonder why such a person would vote commie. Asking "don't the peasants read newspapers?" is no better than asking why they can't eat cake.

They vote because all they see as sources of help to turn to, are commies (and EJs or ISIS..) while their own kind are busy telling them how impure they are. The commies never fail to remind them who decides the loans from the KudumbaShree "Kuri" program. Or who helped get the Panchayat grant (money came from the Central govt, but when it is paid it is by the commie local apparatchik) that built their house. Or who helped get their child to hospital. Who stopped the bus to let them get on so that they could get home before midnight.

Until Hindus learn to operate credibly at the grassroots there is no hope. I believe this is what was done in Naarth India leading up to 2014 and in the UP elections: Chakravarti Amit Shah sent his troops - volunteer yindoos - to LIVE in the villages, eat with them, and explain "Sabke sath, sabka vikas".

Ask urself:

WT* can the grassroots, poor ageing Hindu woman in Malloostan point to, as Hindu support structure for her?
If and when that is answered, the "whoosh" sucking sound will be the Pinnrayi gang vanishing.

It's not EZ. U would rightly argue that the GOI has PM This Yojana PM That Yojana. All in chaste Hindi. When those are explained to the above PAHW, they will be translated and explained with the PM changed to CM. Because where they should be busting their asses doing this ground work, the Yindoos are spending their energies throwing rocks at the buses that are her only means of getting home.

There was a General Strike most recently. Which revealed the latest wunder-strategy:

Oh, it was all right, PRIVATE cars were allowed to ply!


Think about that. Minimum hassle to those who might be able to sue. Max hassle for the commuter and the PAHW. Awesome way to win votes.
Last edited by UlanBatori on 10 Jan 2019 23:12, edited 2 times in total.


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