Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby sivab » 23 Oct 2018 09:18

Anti commie
‏ @CommieAnti

K surendran of BJP at 2 am in the morning at Sannidhanam cheering up the cadres providing protection cover to Ayyappa.He has been there for last 3 days.Contrary to general belieif, BJP and RSS played a pivotal rolein this battle. @surnell
Image
3:54 AM - 22 Oct 2018


Some KL BJP/RSS leaders did course correction. K Surendran above is KL BJP Gen Sec.

Arun Jaitley criticised SC from very beginning (publicly on Oct 6)

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 103668.cms

Subramaniam Swamy was a joke, u-turn on last day.

Many of central BJP did nothing.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby chetak » 23 Oct 2018 09:24

Maoist activist Bindu Zachariah, being brought to #sabarimala was identified and intercepted by S Parivar activists (You can hear the 'Bolo Bharat Mata ki...' ). This is what happened next.
Police whisked her away in time.


https://twitter.com/PartyVillage017/status/1054356539035676672

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby chetak » 23 Oct 2018 09:28

This is true secularism as propagated by the commies/urban naxals under the garb of "equal rights".


Bindu Zachariah, who was being brought to #Sabarimala today, with group holding placards taunting Hindus. One placard reads " Why should God look at what is between my legs."


Image

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby chetak » 23 Oct 2018 09:34

This is the heart rending cry of an Ayyappa devotee. You can understand him. He speaks in English. And what he says will bring tears to your eyes


https://twitter.com/Neelnabh/status/1053987865841983488

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Dileep » 23 Oct 2018 09:56

A better phraseology:

"Enough is enough. Get out of our faith and our temples! "
"നിർത്ത്!! 'കടക്കൂ പുറത്ത്'!! ഞങ്ങളുടെ വിശ്വാസങ്ങളെയും ആരാധനാലയങ്ങളെയും വെറുതെ വിട്!!."
Literal translation: "Enough!!/Stop!! 'Get Out!' (Exact same phrase used by Commissar Pinarayi at media once) Leave alone our beliefs and temples."

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby disha » 23 Oct 2018 09:58

<POOF>

Post in relevant thread about J&K elections

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Dileep » 23 Oct 2018 10:03

One proposal is to re constitute the devaswom board like a co-operative society. Each accredited temple will have an elected committee voted by the registered members (yindoo onlee blis) and two representatives per block to the district committee, and two representatives per district to the state level committee, or some similar hierarchy.

Commies are good in taking over, but there will be good counter balance IMO. If they take the strategy to install temples and form committees, let it be. More the merrier.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby madhu » 23 Oct 2018 10:15

Prasad wrote:AM Singhvi actually did a good job defending the Temple in the SC. Weird I know but he did. As did others like Parasaran and Sai Deepak.

AM Singhvi is it same Abhishek Manu Singhvi of congress?
Some times I feel Congress has done more good to Hindus than BJP.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby chetak » 23 Oct 2018 10:23

twitter


Wonder how #LunaticFringeOfFeminists would react if men started #ForcedEnrry into trains' ladies compartments, ladies toilets, kitty parties & refusing women tickets to reserved seats in local body elections saying women must stay on equal footing! These crazies playing with fire

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Aditya_V » 23 Oct 2018 10:26

madhu wrote:
Prasad wrote:AM Singhvi actually did a good job defending the Temple in the SC. Weird I know but he did. As did others like Parasaran and Sai Deepak.

AM Singhvi is it same Abhishek Manu Singhvi of congress?
Some times I feel Congress has done more good to Hindus than BJP.


And put a weak defense along with Parasan, if you belive INC is better for Hindus than BJP, please salute the esteemed gentlemen of National Advisory Council on the payroll of GHulam Nabi Fai Inviting gentle people from the neighboring country for settling in WB, Assam and entire NE, Ghulam Nabi Fai, MS Iyer, MF Hussain for his beutiful paintings, Tolerance at Amar Jawan jyothi being descrated, Mahesh Bhatt, NC allies, Complete cancellation of Offensive weapons for 10 years, Kanchiah Illiah whose books have been sponsored by Rajiv Gandhi foundation and who has been pubically associated with Shri "rahul Ghandhi" wrote "why Iam not a Hindu", Inviting Musharaf for multiple conclaves, Denel anti material rifle cancellation, anti hindu bigotry by Teesta Sevtalnad and Kapil Sibal in NCERT textbooks, splashing AIT theory and Distorted History in JNU, support for Maoism and Tukde Tukde gang, wanting to destroy the Ram Sethu and endless list. See the scorn Congress supporters have for "Bhakti" to God and Hindu religion and label people as "BHAKTS".

There are many reasons to support Congress, respect for Hindusim and not working for the extinction of the Hindu religion is not one of them. Anyways it is a Free Country and people are Free to think the world is flat.

The people of Kerala have voted for 21 MP's in 2014 and have elected certain parties contentiously for 71 years. These Elected persons will Naturally expect the people of Kerala support their ideology. Can we what these 21 MP's from Kerala have done on Sabrimala or these people so lucky they have all authority Zero responsibility.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Javee » 23 Oct 2018 11:44

Dileep wrote:A better phraseology:

"Enough is enough. Get out of our faith and our temples! "
"നിർത്ത്!! 'കടക്കൂ പുറത്ത്'!! ഞങ്ങളുടെ വിശ്വാസങ്ങളെയും ആരാധനാലയങ്ങളെയും വെറുതെ വിട്!!."
Literal translation: "Enough!!/Stop!! 'Get Out!' (Exact same phrase used by Commissar Pinarayi at media once) Leave alone our beliefs and temples."

Saar, I don't know if there will be enough devotees to police the temple after the peak season. Comrades have the govt/police/devasom board in their hands, it is all a matter of months for them to succeed, unless there is a lasting relief from either the courts or force KL govt to ratify an ordinance.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Sachin » 23 Oct 2018 13:30

madhu wrote:Some times I feel Congress has done more good to Hindus than BJP.

fanne wrote:If Manu SANGHVI is able to move the Judges in favor of Sabarimala and cong plays that out, mind my words, that maybe the start of BJP loosing 2019.

hnair wrote:But BJP national leadership comes across as a cynical, vote-counting bunch with no idea about tailoring messages. Good luck to them - they are not going to get a better opening than this and if they squander it like they way they did over last few weeks, one has to agree that the party has zero interest in studying the South-specific Hindu problems

In Sabari Mala case it is Congress-10 v/s BJP- (a big) 0. The Congress in Kerala really knows that this is a god send opportunity for them to interfere. Now if Congress gets folks like AM Singhvi and Kapil Sibal etc involved, BJP would have to literally sit and whine. As it is we all know that folks like Singhvi, Sibal etc. are folks who can even get bail pleas heard on phone. Their clout in Supreme Court is widely known. And if Singhvi & Co also some how gets this issue sorted out (in favour of the devotees), then it is going to be a grand "vote pulling" move from them. It may even make Ra.Ga's claim of Janyudhari Brahman look more credible. Congress would be clearly seen as a party which defended the faith of Kerala Hindus. And in a state where governments are generally formed either by the commies, or the Congress; the next election results are pretty obvious.

BJP in Kerala is actually digging its own grave. One they did not have the "local intelligence" to know the sense of the people. Secondly, they were hesitant to take a different stance from that of their Nagpur HQ. By the time they did their U turn, Congress had already made their U turn was running far ahead. Now we hear about Congress getting folks like A.M Singhvi involved. BJP in Kerala still don't have any concrete action plan. They still not have told what they plan to do with the court verdict. They have not made any attempts to approach the judiciary. The Prime Minister has been absolutely silent on the issue, and so is A.Shah. The state level BJP is still trying to use this as a political weapon to target the commies.

Now BJP would use its cadre to come up with some of their "cheap tricks". That is to make some derogatory remarks against the "Activists", threaten them and make life miserable for them etc. Their leadership would do the usual "dharna/piqueting" stuff, which the police would take it as an amusement for some time and then arrest them. BJP would try to show case this as their attempt to "save the Hindu faith".

fanne wrote:But BJP in general has hurt itself out of Kerela. A non publicized involvement has not gone down well (I believe they were fully involved in saving the tradition, in spite of some glansot infected bjp/rss members). They must reach out and assure, that they were not fiddling while Sabarimala sentiments burned.

arshyam wrote:RSS helping the movement? Sounds like a hijacking from within to me. Didn't the RSS act all liberal and welcome the verdict?

sivab wrote:Some KL BJP/RSS leaders did course correction. K Surendran above is KL BJP Gen Sec.

As I said in the above comment Kerala BJP has missed the issue by miles. The BJP cannot even claim a "non publicized movement". Yes there may have been BJP cadre who protested at the temple, but they went there because they were Ayyappa devotees. Not based on directives from Nagpur HQ. It was only very late that RSS and Subramaniam Swamy etc. made their U turns. By then the Ayyappa devotees had come up with their own plan of protests (a peaceful one). What BJP would try (or already trying) would be to some how "inject" themselves in this protest. I did see some social media posts in which BJP leaders were seen "welcoming" protestors from their locality who had gone to Sabari Mala.

K. Surendran etc. are just playing political games, hoping that they would get more votes. What is Kerala BJP's next plan? How can Kerala BJP influence the central government (BJP led)? These folks are unable to clearly articulate that. The BJP is clearly proving to be a North Indian Hindu party; who is least bit bothered about Hindu cause in areas which its presence is not all that great.

hnair wrote:The current state govt has been hijacked completely by a cohort of Malabar thugs, whose only game is brutality. The CPI-M's southern faction (centered around Alapuzha) is more educated

As I have been saying the CPI(M) is now like the Italian Mafia, masquerading as a political party. Their top leadership is from North Kerala, where a kind of Mafia culture actually exists. Killing people over trivial issues, vendetta spanning across generations are all still there. And this Mafia also has its own business fronts and also have their influence on main stream media, and law enforcement machinery in Kerala. But being like a Mafia; the leadership also lacks any vision and at times their inherent "poverty in the mind" comes out. Take for example the grand plan to send 15+ ministers on a begging spree across the world. For these "leaders" foreign capitalistic countries are like Utopia. They jolly well know that this would be the only time they can visit these countries (especially without paying any money from their pockets).

Javee wrote:Saar, I don't know if there will be enough devotees to police the temple after the peak season.

The temple would open for a day in November (November 5th to 6th). My only hope is on social media and the Ayyappa devotees effectively using it. After that the peak season (Mandala Kaalam) starts from Nov 16th. The court is supposed to hear all the review petitions before that. In the peak season I don't think any sensible woman activist would make an attempt to make the visit. The police have clearly thrown up their hands and said that they cannot do this "escort" business during the peak season.

vijayk wrote:AP and TS people are great devotees of Ayyappa swamy. Even my sisters Hyderabad heard about that Rehman lady via whatsapp. They all know what's going on. But unfortunately they can't connect all the dots (judiciary/Evangelicals NGOs-CON party/COMMIE nexus).

My sincere request would be to have more awareness introduced. Among the women who tried to seek entry majority of them from AP/TS. And they did not even have the mandatory items required for the pilgrimage - the Irumudi kettu & the black dress etc. Some of them have also said that they were unaware of the traditions at Sabari Mala, and I would like to believe them. Off course AP/TS is also a fertile ground of the Naxals, so don't know if they too tried to push in their activists. May be AP/TS police should make a check on the background of the women (just in case).

chetak wrote:Bindu Zachariah, who was being brought to #Sabarimala today, with group holding placards taunting Hindus. One placard reads " Why should God look at what is between my legs."

Kerala has a very bad "moral policing" culture and Bindu is now learning it the hard way. Not that I support such activities, but we cannot expect many people to be pacifists. There is already a video of how Bindu was taken out from the police station. If she had ran at the same speed, she for sure may even beat P.T Usha one day. Today her land lord has asked her to vacate the home. She was then moved under police escort to her friend's apartment. Other apartment owners did not want her there and she is now moved to an "undisclosed location". She works as a teacher and the school authorities have asked her not to come to the school some time. Sadly, her children have also been identified and now they too may face social ostracism.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby arvin » 23 Oct 2018 13:33

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/polit ... 75021.html

Sakhav pinarayi vijayan crediting RSS for the agitation that had popular support across kerala. Right from the horses mouth.

The incidents of preventing women in the 10-50 age group from offering worship at the temple and attacking media personnel, who had come to cover the historic event, was part of a conspiracy led by the RSS, he alleged.


:rotfl:
Doing a good job in wiping out communist idealogy from
kerala.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Sachin » 23 Oct 2018 13:56

arvin wrote:Sakhav pinarayi vijayan crediting RSS for the agitation that had popular support across kerala. Right from the horses mouth.

Pinarayi Vijayan may be giving RSS some "credit", when they themselves are unable to clearly tell what they have been doing to defend the belief system of Sabari Mala :lol:.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby abhijitm » 23 Oct 2018 14:03

BJP and RSS have become engrossed in hindu issues in the north. Yes, they are mainly north bases organizations and also draw huge votes from that region, but if they want to spread they need to find pulses of local hindus. I really doubt people in south, or for that matter western parts like maharashtra, goa are really bothered about RJB. If it happens good, if not they will not lose sleep. But if you touch temples like Pandharpur, Tuljapur in maharshtra and will see maharashtrians on road protesting. Same with Sabrimala. But it seems bjp and rss' hindutva starts with RJB and will possibly end at Mathura. They need to strongly relate to local cultures, faith, traditions and stand for it.

In Kerala they were completely clueless. It was a huge opportunity. missed.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby syam » 23 Oct 2018 14:26

<POOF>
Last edited by hnair on 23 Oct 2018 14:49, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Off for a week. GDF has been shutdown precisely because of posters with no self control like you

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Prasad » 23 Oct 2018 14:41

AM Singhvi argued. No comments on its efficacy.

Anyway here is People for Dharma's written submission http://peoplefordharma.org/sabarimala-c ... bmissions/

And a tweet thread on the arguments in court in this case https://twitter.com/People4Dharma/statu ... 5839683584

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Sachin » 23 Oct 2018 14:47

syam wrote:POOFED

In Kerala both BJP and RSS were actually acting as "progressive liberal" folks. It was only after knowing that the public sentiments in Kerala is opposite that they sensed a political opportunity and jumped in. The protests need not be in chaddis. The faces of BJP and RSS leaders are all known to Kerala people. They could have been at Sabari Mala on day one, and perhaps even articulated their stance on the media. Yet they did not do that during the initial days. And this is when they say that they are for "Hindu causes".

The RSS & BJP leadership clearly missed to judge the mood of Kerala people about the verdict on Sabari Mala. Congress too missed it, but they were quicker to make course correction. And today Congress has taken more initiative to resolve the issue as well.

POOFED

Today the women activists who tried to gain entry to Sabari Mala are being harrassed. Some of them are facing social ostracisation. Their homes have been vandalised. And they will just say that it was BJP & RSS people who did this. So that would also create an image that BJP & RSS people, were not there on the spot (at Sabari Mala) and doing peaceful protests. But are now there on the streets behaving like thugs and targetting women, who already have had enough. So BJP & RSS gets another beating there as well ;).

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby chetak » 23 Oct 2018 15:02

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W91BB0QtcnQ

Sabarimala - What you don't know about it - J Sai Deepak


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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby abhijitm » 23 Oct 2018 15:27

Prasad wrote:AM Singhvi argued. No comments on its efficacy.

Anyway here is People for Dharma's written submission http://peoplefordharma.org/sabarimala-c ... bmissions/

And a tweet thread on the arguments in court in this case https://twitter.com/People4Dharma/statu ... 5839683584

And suddenly cong is saviour of dharma!!

They say if you live long enough you see everything.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Sachin » 23 Oct 2018 15:33

abhijitm wrote:And suddenly cong is saviour of dharma!!

:D They sensed an opportunity and capitalised on it. Self declared saviours of dharma in KL are still clueless and just using the sad incidents for political purposes. If Congress plays its hand well and gets a verdict in favour of the Ayyappa devotees, it is going to change lots of voters minds.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby abhijitm » 23 Oct 2018 15:53

Sachin wrote:
abhijitm wrote:And suddenly cong is saviour of dharma!!

:D They sensed an opportunity and capitalised on it. Self declared saviours of dharma in KL are still clueless and just using the sad incidents for political purposes. If Congress plays its hand well and gets a verdict in favour of the Ayyappa devotees, it is going to change lots of voters minds.

Sigh

1. lordships with their infinite wisdom created a social issue when there was NONE.
2. Congress supported the issue created by lordship, but at the end will get sympathy for solving the same issue which was not supposed to be there in first place
3. left will lose KL for the issue they don't own but foolishly they snowballed
4. BJP back to square one in KL for owning somebody else's issue at the beginning, and at the end couldn't solve it in delhi even after having own Gov in center

what a circus

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby arvin » 23 Oct 2018 15:53

Throwing out of rehana now makes sense. Must be at the insistence of IUML, congress's best chum in kerala and UDF parther. Strategy to win hindu votes as part of new rebranding as shiv bhakt.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Aditya_V » 23 Oct 2018 16:14

Must give credit to INC, they may not know how to Govern or work, but know thier arguments and Politics very well. INC lawyers and SC give judgement against Hindus which is reviewed and Same status quo achived and INC has 21 seats in Kerala in the bag.

Minority and Leftist vote is far more trustworthy, followers of INC social media who regularly abuse Hindus try and even convince everyone that Raga is intelligent. Bravo INC no wonder you almost always rule, no matter what you do people will always like you.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby hnair » 23 Oct 2018 16:22

Sachin wrote:
abhijitm wrote:And suddenly cong is saviour of dharma!!

:D They sensed an opportunity and capitalised on it. Self declared saviours of dharma in KL are still clueless and just using the sad incidents for political purposes. If Congress plays its hand well and gets a verdict in favour of the Ayyappa devotees, it is going to change lots of voters minds.


Did not want to post video links, but here is an example: this video is in malayalam of Rajmohan Unnithan. People like him became prominent among Ayyappa bhakta tribe, because of the unapologetic, crazy-batshit way he took down the Marxist whatzizname in that panel and mauled his ribs out:

Link to a video

The way the guy boldly takes on the subject of state CPM boss Kodiyeri Balakrishnan's two-facedness, by calling out his wife's visits to pilgrimage centers, in this video. Epic stuff that makes marxists squirm. Conversely, he is rabidly anti-BJP too and right now, there is no equivalent orator in state BJP, who can be blunt like him and yet presents cases as lucidly or logically as him. Left, unfortunately, has a few.

Aditya_V, nothing is assured for LDF side too. Little angry red birdie says Left grapevine got troubling feedback from grassroots in their northern district strongholds, which they initially ignored, because of their brutal dominance. But southern district partymen started revolting openly and that apparently caused the Kadakampalli sommersaults...... So even they depend on the votes of party voters who are devotees. The state has been thrown wide open for the very first time and BJP central leadership has to act. Heard that the Field Marshal is coming to the state. Good to hear that

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby chetak » 23 Oct 2018 17:03

^^^^^^^

Link to a video



Very powerful speaker.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby SPattath » 23 Oct 2018 19:13

Very surprised that people here were expecting RSS cadre in ganavesh to be in Sannidanam protesting.
Irrespective of whether you like RSS or not, they had a big role in protest's over this issue all over south India.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Prasad » 23 Oct 2018 19:50

Might or might not be strategically taking up cases. In any case, the aims and view of RSS on such things are telegraphed long ago and they're in the form of 'yindooism must reform, we want women to enter Shani temple and Sabarimalai, we're more liberal than liberal now that we're in dilli which not even the Peshwas could do, yada yada yada, we're now infected with statesmanitis induced secularitis'.

RSS' help on the streets may be welcome. There were enough devotees who had no political backing out on the streets doing totally gandhian protests against the verdict. Instead of spending some brain power and fighting the battle in legislature/LS, RSS/BJP isn't fighting THE battle that needs to be fought. If they did their job there, the devotees on the ground will get more confidence that their beliefs have a strong backer. Everyone konws the EJ gang and who their backers are. What backing does a poor coward farmer boy have?

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Prasad » 23 Oct 2018 19:50

Also, why even have this discussion after shutting down GDF I wonder.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Sachin » 23 Oct 2018 20:02

SPattath wrote:Very surprised that people here were expecting RSS cadre in ganavesh to be in Sannidanam protesting.
Irrespective of whether you like RSS or not, they had a big role in protest's over this issue all over south India.

RSS's official stance on Sabari Mala issue was that women of all ages should be allowed inside. Even the Kerala chief of RSS made such a statement only (when he ideally would be knowing the ground situation better). There may have been lots of RSS workers involved in the protests, but RSS now "claiming" it as their victory may be a bit far fetched. That is taking credit after an event is done well.

Prasad wrote:Instead of spending some brain power and fighting the battle in legislature/LS, RSS/BJP isn't fighting THE battle that needs to be fought.

RSS being a non-political entity cannot do any thing associated with the governments etc. What is the Kerala state BJP unit under command of S. Sreedharan Pillai and the BJP national level leadership like Amit Shah plan to do for helping the devotees at Sabari Mala? I really don't know, and I am all the more willing to be corrected/informed. The commies are very clear on their stance. The Congress says that they may help in getting some legal help. Other than making bombastic statements in Kerala, did not see much of a plan from them.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby abhijitm » 23 Oct 2018 20:21

SPattath wrote:Very surprised that people here were expecting RSS cadre in ganavesh to be in Sannidanam protesting.
Irrespective of whether you like RSS or not, they had a big role in protest's over this issue all over south India.

No, that's not the expectation. The thing is it was once in a millennium god sent gift in god's own country, which bjp could have handled it much better and effectively. After initial screw up they did brought their cadre on the streets but the thing is people are smart, they can see through the opportunism. The race is now on about who will end this. Can bjp end this? whoever help ending in favor of devotees takes credit. And bjp is nowhere to be seen.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby abhijitm » 23 Oct 2018 20:44

Tell you the bigger problem. This bjp and rss never learn. There was a preseason trial match of exact same issue in maharashtra a year ago. Devotees including women stood their ground and protested against SC judgement. Any political party with head on its shoulder will learn something from this.

A year later, a state with business as usual. bjp struggling to make ground. cong and left holding major share. suddenly baaamm. SC gives exact same judgment on a tier 1 high profile temple. Now what a party would do? Assess the mood based on lessons learned in maharshtra? be smart? sniff the opportunity? least they can do is keep their mouth shut and wait and watch before making move. But noooooo. They had to give statement that too congratulating SC verdict immediately. can't even wait, can't even think..hang on, if in MH tier 2 temple devotees can create issue then what can happen here?

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby hnair » 23 Oct 2018 20:48

UB-sir, fyi, some answers to your original questions. I was waiting for someone of this background to write about it:

N R Madhava Menon, founder of the National Law School of India University

It is mainly up to the state government and the Supreme court to restore peace in Sabarimala.

Just because there is a Supreme Court verdict does not mean that the government has to blindly implement it. Law and order is of primary concern. Police should not be used in such a large and menacing way as long as the protests are not violent. Hundreds of policemen escorting a women to Sabarimala is not the way to enforce a Supreme Court order. Such show of strength can be highly provocative. Then, given that things have developed in a manner no one had anticipated, the state government can very well approach the Supreme Court saying that the issue needs reconsideration.

The Supreme Court, too, can step in to ease the situation. There is a doctrine that the judges adopt at the apex level called the 'judicially manageable standards'. If they find that a particular issue not judicially manageable, they will defer it. The case will be kept in abeyance unless and until a solution is found that will not create new problems.

The Supreme Court also champions alternate dispute resolution methods. There are reconciliation and mediation cells in the Supreme Court itself. The Sabarimala is the kind of case that should have been referred to the mediation cell. Even now, it is not late.

It will be interesting how the Supreme Court will respond to the review. They can either dismiss it or they can say they are willing to conduct an open hearing. They can have a larger bench to examine the issue. There are innumerable instances where the Supreme Court has corrected itself.

At stake are two conflicting fundamental rights. The right to equality (Article 14-18) and right to practice and profess the religion of one's choice (Article 25-28). There is a need to find a balance. If you give all the weightage to equality, what will happen to religions like Hinduism that are based entirely on faith. These religions do not have an organised church or does not draw its spiritual energy from a single holy book. What if someone argues that worshiping a stone is unscientific and therefore unconstitutional? Faith has to be acceptable so long as it does not affect public order or public health.


The last two lines brings another thought:
I know it is tacky to use as an example, but the late Gene Roddenberry (or it scriptwriter Gene Coon?) had this wonderful plot device called the "Prime Directive for the Startship Federation". The west, after many screwups since crusades and colonialism is inching towards that position of gradually accepting plurality in various aspects even in what they consider as inferior people. Not so with Indian Union. Here, we are slowly discovering the merits of "unitary concepts", under guise of "plogless". Sabarimala is a rare instance where the inferiors stood up and fought. Like those dumb frogs that usually get boiled alive in the slow boil mode, but this time, jumped out and pissed the burner out.....

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby chetak » 23 Oct 2018 21:18

Sachin wrote:
SPattath wrote:Very surprised that people here were expecting RSS cadre in ganavesh to be in Sannidanam protesting.
Irrespective of whether you like RSS or not, they had a big role in protest's over this issue all over south India.

RSS's official stance on Sabari Mala issue was that women of all ages should be allowed inside. Even the Kerala chief of RSS made such a statement only (when he ideally would be knowing the ground situation better). There may have been lots of RSS workers involved in the protests, but RSS now "claiming" it as their victory may be a bit far fetched. That is taking credit after an event is done well.

Prasad wrote:Instead of spending some brain power and fighting the battle in legislature/LS, RSS/BJP isn't fighting THE battle that needs to be fought.

RSS being a non-political entity cannot do any thing associated with the governments etc. What is the Kerala state BJP unit under command of S. Sreedharan Pillai and the BJP national level leadership like Amit Shah plan to do for helping the devotees at Sabari Mala? I really don't know, and I am all the more willing to be corrected/informed. The commies are very clear on their stance. The Congress says that they may help in getting some legal help. Other than making bombastic statements in Kerala, did not see much of a plan from them.


The propensity of some jokers and it is a typical Indian failing, to shoot off their mouths when their interests would be immensely better served by holding their tongues and biding their time, waiting for an opportune moment, is unbelievable.

Just a simple mike, thrust in their face, accompanied by skanky presstitute, whose job depends on provoking the interviewee to unburden themselves of some profound banality that will invariably come back to bite the interviewee in the ass.

A very simple "we have to wait and see" would have been far more diplomatic and also eminently sensible.

Now the fuddy duddies have had to change horses in the middle of the stream and pay the political price for it.

The timing of the case is also very fortuitous for some parties of the BIF variety and it looks like the verdict was anticipated in some quarters even before the so called judgement. It looks like a setup.
Last edited by chetak on 23 Oct 2018 21:22, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby UlanBatori » 23 Oct 2018 21:19

Deleted. Too many professional Offence-Takers around :(( .
Last edited by UlanBatori on 24 Oct 2018 06:10, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby Prasad » 23 Oct 2018 21:32

Then you'd have the excommunicators up in arms yakherder. That nobody wants no?

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby UlanBatori » 23 Oct 2018 21:36

Prasad wrote:Then you'd have the excommunicators up in arms yakherder. That nobody wants no?

That would be win-win, but the Fatwe'd must find safe and hospitable, welcoming reception on "our" side. But of course no entry to SM or other stunts that are "asreekaram".

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby ramana » 23 Oct 2018 21:52

Prasad wrote:Also, why even have this discussion after shutting down GDF I wonder.


Isn't that what you want even here?

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby chetak » 23 Oct 2018 21:58

UlanBatori wrote:
Prasad wrote:Then you'd have the excommunicators up in arms yakherder. That nobody wants no?

That would be win-win, but the Fatwe'd must find safe and hospitable, welcoming reception on "our" side. But of course no entry to SM or other stunts that are "asreekaram".


I have a feeling that this so called "ex communication" will be quietly annulled as time goes by.

There will be a lot of hot heads in the community who would be quite impressed by her actions against the majority and will intercede on her behalf.

This is just a taqiya move to defuse the current situation and also made with an eye to future gain of some sympathy and support for the triple talaq issue which is bound to flare up closer to the 2019 elections.

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Re: Kerala Floods - Aftermath and Save Sabarimala

Postby ramana » 23 Oct 2018 22:06

Sachin, The national BJP govt is doing everything per the Constitution. it is not interfering the state govt functioning.
At same time it has provided intelligence reports to the State Govt and the Governor (A former Chief justice of Supreme Court who knows the law and is above all representative of the President of India).
in fact I would argue the deputation of IG Sreejith instead of DIG Manoj "Lathi Charge" Abraham is a result of Governor meeting with DGP.
Its unfortunate that IG Sreejith was traumatized. Some people want his to resign. I said on twitter if good people quit it opens door for bad people.
Having said all this, State BJP has to expand its presence and is doing that. I don't understand despite many years on this Forum people can thing strategically and demand useless statements.
Modi making statements will convert this into a political fight between Vijayan and Modi while the real issue is Supreme Court over reach into Hindu religious traditions.
Prasad we trying to have a decent discussion. if you find it hard please don't post here.

HNair, I have a request for you. Please recuse yourself and leave administration to other mods.
This way we have balance.
If you insist on moderating then don't take part in discussions.

Same applies to me as I am a participant here.

UB you are crossing the line often playing with religious sentiments of believers on the ground with sarcastic comments.
I suggest not using such terminology.


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