Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby Singha » 17 Feb 2019 23:00

looks like explosive slurry, 81mm mortar shells converted to IEDs, rusty looking cannon shells converted to grenades(?) and pistols ...... 10 tons is humongous amount - enough for years of IED making

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby Singha » 17 Feb 2019 23:04

iranian foreign minister tweet

Seyed Abbas Araghchi

Verified account

@araghchi
Feb 16
More
Iran & India suffered from two heinous terrorist attacks in the past few days resulted in big casualties. Today in my meeting with Sushma Swaraj the Indian FM, when she had a stopover in Tehran, we agreed on close cooperation to combat terrorism in the region. Enough is enough!

Image

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ArjunPandit » 17 Feb 2019 23:25

ricky_v wrote:^yes to that. But most will still have able bodies to pick their nose and finger their goat, why not also push disease through their crops, water and air; also as they are off the vaccination program, virulent strains of polio, measles,mumps can also be introduced. Let the next gen of pakis be cross eyed mutants along with being inbred. Pesticide resistant organisms must be unleashed on their most profitable and their most consumable. Opioid crisis of us must be replicated there, making the public despondent. Its not about defeating the enemy, its about crippling them for life.
That would actually be worthwhile rather than the pointless cow raid attack that passes for trouble on the border right now.

You do realize that is chemical/biological warfare.

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ArjunPandit » 17 Feb 2019 23:26

Singha wrote:lets not forget a prolonged drought, fall in river waters led to the end of the moenjodaro civilization and migration of its people into the ganga - yamuna region which in that era was apparently sparesely populated.

well where will these beggars turn up to? US, Iran, Afghanistan, China? No. That will be India. Pakistan has to be imploded, yet it has to remain a habitable place for at least 50 years, unless of course we plan to denuke them en masse

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ArjunPandit » 18 Feb 2019 04:58

UlanBatori wrote:Just checked the maps to see what is involved. Had no idea that Iran has such a nice north-south border with Afghanistan, I thought it was all east-west border.

A nice country ride from Zahedan towards Quetta along the border but on the Afghan side (of course by invitation of the Afghan guvrmand!) by Syrian-returned Iranian forces, takes one through mostly high desert and some high mountains. Pakis can do diddly squat about who is on that side, except try sending terrorists, who will be evident on satellite (wonder who has them..) and can be taken out by air raids - inside A'stan or v. close to border. Then its a turkey-shoot choice, which Balochistan cities to liberate first, and which roads to cut. Americans can simply be too busy to look or care. Maybe Pakis will try to hold on to Quetta, but west of that is a goner, assuming that local population won't be very unhappy to see Iranian Shia liberators along with Afghan shias.

Once half of Balochistan is liberated, Freedom Will Ring, and the rest will hopefully rise and massacre the oppressors. Reminds me: gotta think ahead. How is Modi going to protect (from the Balock Lib front) accommodate the 90,000 Pakis who will surrender? (Answer: Is Gen. "Container Oven" Dostum still around?) :mrgreen:

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ArjunPandit » 18 Feb 2019 05:01

now that we've talked about paki's western border, i havent heard much from putin. But then even if I hear, i wont understand russian, cyrrilic or even tajik

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby UlanBatori » 18 Feb 2019 06:43

I think a Russia-Iran-India partnership would work a whole lot better if one of the team would also do what the other two have done in recent years.. instead of looking for the others to support them. Neither Russia nor Iran allow their foreign policy of even decisions to wage war, on "log kya kahenge?"

I do hope that partnership grows into a balanced threesome. With a new state of paklessness.

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby krishna_krishna » 18 Feb 2019 08:23

X-post :

From MBS press conference : " We will make greater Middle East and Pakistan will be eastern guard of Greater Middle East"

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby Singha » 18 Feb 2019 08:44

So they are both on same page wrt targeting iran

Using mandala theory iran will now be more amenable to indian concerns

The eastern oil rich area of saudi centered on dhahran is shia and subject to repression by saudi govt incl wxecution of young sheikh nimr al nimr and usual arab prisons and torture

Iran will look to defend itself by setting fire to that region

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby uddu » 18 Feb 2019 08:47

krishna_krishna wrote:X-post :

From MBS press conference : " We will make greater Middle East and Pakistan will be eastern guard of Greater Middle East"


Saudi's proclaiming that they are in charge of Pakistan with attacks on India and Iran using their proxy Pakistan? As per Saudi's and the Jihadi Pakistani's comes under the Great Middle East or is it the Wahabbi's proclaiming war on the Shia's and the Hindus?

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby Singha » 18 Feb 2019 08:50

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimr_al-Nimr

Was a good man. Called for free elections and human rights

Executed by the saudis and reign of terror against his family continues.

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby krishna_krishna » 18 Feb 2019 08:55

^^^ Add to this Good Sharif is still employed by SA, and he was a week back in porkistan and had met their army chief so there is clear indication of their tacit approval to both with advance planning

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby Austin » 18 Feb 2019 11:55

Pakistan A "Dear Country" To All Saudis: Crown Prince Mohammad Bin Salman

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/pakista ... topstories

Saudi Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman said, "We believe that Pakistan is going to be a very, very important country in the coming future and we want to be sure we are part of that. Pakistan today has a great future in store with a great leadership".

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby Austin » 18 Feb 2019 11:56

Plus MBS gives them $20 billion ..... Expect Saudis to come in rescue to Paki birithai incase of cross border strike

$2o Billion is bakshees for transferring 20 Nuclear weapons to Saudi

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby Kashi » 18 Feb 2019 11:57

Austin wrote:Expect Saudis to come in rescue to Paki birithai incase of cross border strike


And how would they do that?

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby Austin » 18 Feb 2019 12:06

Kashi wrote:
Austin wrote:Expect Saudis to come in rescue to Paki birithai incase of cross border strike


And how would they do that?


Many ways contributing militarily , giving them funds , giving them free Jihadi ME, giving them free oil.

During Kargil the Saudis gave long credit to pakis for energy

Worst they might just deport all the Indian labours and ask OPEC to do that , They have a strong hold over OPEC rather they are the OPEC

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby Austin » 18 Feb 2019 12:09

"Consider Me Ambassador Of Pak In Saudi": Crown Prince To Imran Khan

"We can't say no to Pakistan," Mohammad Bin Salman, also known as MBS, told Imran Khan when he asked him to extend help to the 2.5 million Pak labourers in Saudi.

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/mohamma ... -topscroll

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby Kashi » 18 Feb 2019 12:11

How can they contribute militarily without invoking a response from India and the US? How will they go about it?

How will oil move from Gulf to NaPakistan, if there's an IN-enforced embargo?

"giving them free Jihadi ME"- Whatever does that mean?

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby Austin » 18 Feb 2019 12:18

Why would US go against Saudi , They cant even sanction MBS for the killing.

What enforced Embargo ? OPEC will stop all oil to India .....Good Luck with any Enforced Embargo.

MBS is openly professing as Ambasador of Pakistan in Saudi ........Saudi have their own plan to take on Iran via Pakistan and need Pakistan besides their Sunni Nuclear Bum

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby Kashi » 18 Feb 2019 12:20

US won't go against the Saudis, India too cannot?

If there's an IN blockade of the Karachi port, will Oil tankers till try and break though?

MBS may talk all he wants, but will he walk the talk when the push comes to shove?

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby Prem » 18 Feb 2019 12:52

krishna_krishna wrote:X-post :

From MBS press conference : " We will make greater Middle East and Pakistan will be eastern guard of Greater Middle East"

Pakistan always have been at the tip of Arab-Penis-Ullah .

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby Vikas » 18 Feb 2019 13:14

Saudis like to speak in flowry language. Take it with a pinch of salt. Having said that, they depend upon Pakis to provide military power so there is some dependence to keep Pak floating as long as Iran is around.

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby manjgu » 18 Feb 2019 13:25

1) NaPakis cant transfer anything to the Saudis without USA approving it 2) MOU's mean nothing... lets see how much of it really happens ..if the balloon goes up I dont think even 2 USD is going to come much less 2B USD. 3) arabs always speak in hyperboles..flowery , take it with pinch of salt as Vikas rightly said. 4) Modiji has a short window of oppurtunity of max 2/3 months... i hope very soon the service chiefs present him with a few options...for his approval else 2019 LS is gone for BJP ... a matter of national security is not governed by EC code of conduct.

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ArjunPandit » 18 Feb 2019 16:05

^^why do we think that it has not been done already?

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ks_sachin » 18 Feb 2019 16:08

manjgu wrote:1) NaPakis cant transfer anything to the Saudis without USA approving it 2) MOU's mean nothing... lets see how much of it really happens ..if the balloon goes up I dont think even 2 USD is going to come much less 2B USD. 3) arabs always speak in hyperboles..flowery , take it with pinch of salt as Vikas rightly said. 4) Modiji has a short window of oppurtunity of max 2/3 months... i hope very soon the service chiefs present him with a few options...for his approval else 2019 LS is gone for BJP ... a matter of national security is not governed by EC code of conduct.

What options can the service chiefs present that will be palatable to Modiji?

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ArjunPandit » 18 Feb 2019 16:31

Like a gujju bhai: Maximum damage, minimum casualties/cost

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ks_sachin » 18 Feb 2019 16:38

ramana wrote:
ArjunPandit wrote:^^this is when i miss rohitvats most. Probably we need to look into his analysis on water bodies/canals near indian border.



You are looking for military solution when its much larger solution needed.


And the analysis will not make for comfortable reading...

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ArjunPandit » 18 Feb 2019 18:24

comfortable as in difficult or gruesome?

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby Agasthi » 18 Feb 2019 20:12

If the title of this thread actually becomes true, I would suggest something that has been tried before and apply a few things learnt from the 'Raj' days. The armed forces should move into the badlands and hold the countryside in a permanent state of war. Avoid the urban cesspools but lay siege to them. Reach a deal with the feudal lords and impose double taxation, if the feudal lords dither, threaten them with land reforms. The population should be encouraged to move west, make a move east - a bullet or a flamethrower should do the trick. Let the survival instinct kick in. If their ancestors, the romani can make it west so can they.

Babudom should be encouraged to exercise only the 'Diwani rights' and not 'Nizami rights'. Babudom will love this policy framework. Soon, 'benign neglect' induced by the policies as the EIC would have claimed would see a repetition of what Eastern India had to endure in the 1700's and 1800's. Get landless and others from India to settle in vacant lands and if there is resistance it will be feeble. Finders, keepers. Meanwhile the urban areas under siege be kept on the edge due to the threat of Indian forces moving in (no actual moving in except for regular predatory attacks) should keep the urban yahoos well fed on a diet of jihad and drugs. It will be a slow death, once the countryside is cleared and populated. If we can battle the insurgency in the valley for 30 years another 30 years of occupying these lands shouldn't be an issue. Shuddhi Karan for that ancient land, 'Raj' style.

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ArjunPandit » 18 Feb 2019 20:22

^^this is a very interesting perspective. However, at that time this part was sparsely populated.Hardly any institutions and population due to the terrain. The rabbit like breeding has this area see a true population explosion. Hussain haqqani on twitter shared that pakis have grown in last 30 years since king abdullah came last time

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ricky_v » 18 Feb 2019 20:30

ArjunPandit wrote:You do realize that is chemical/biological warfare.

yes, it would be a sad incident but living in the giant dumpsters they call cities are already ripe for some outbreak,who would know what is what, i am merely proposing to throw some other potent stuff in the mix.

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ArjunPandit » 18 Feb 2019 20:37

ricky_v wrote:
ArjunPandit wrote:You do realize that is chemical/biological warfare.

yes, it would be a sad incident but living in the giant dumpsters they call cities are already ripe for some outbreak,who would know what is what, i am merely proposing to throw some other potent stuff in the mix.

as much as i want it to be done for last few years, i think this is below our standards. I would not be prefer to be the one that initiates this kind of exchange. That said, India came out voluntarily and destroyed her stock of biochemical weapons. Although it still remains within our reach to decimate a unvaccinated population pretty quickly. But are we willing to live up to that sin. Believe in law of karm or kukarm

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ricky_v » 18 Feb 2019 20:55

The personnel involved need not represent goi either officially or metaphysically,a private venture can subvert that particular judgment, after all the gods created non state actors for a reason...

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby vinod » 18 Feb 2019 21:06

Whatever we do militarily to Pak, it should be done before Trump goes away. He hates both India and Pakistan.. but I think he hates them more. So, we are likely to get a little more sympathetic response from him than any one in the deep state.

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ArjunPandit » 19 Feb 2019 00:27

ricky_v wrote:The personnel involved need not represent goi either officially or metaphysically,a private venture can subvert that particular judgment, after all the gods created non state actors for a reason...

oh so you took non state actor theory quite literally and took it to another extreme. I had too in my wet dreams but the phailure of paki ship attack had PMEed that. Only good pjs now onwards like poisoning the indus some paki dams, like the abdul kashmiri was doing or spreading swine flu, or like plague(in gujrat in mid 90s). They are already suffering from hereditary diseases due to inbreeding, no. Does that make them susceptible en masse to some same disease, apart from polio of legs and mind?. Sometimes i feel like visiting ayni airbase on my personal F35. Anyways given uk & italy have no use of it apart from airshows

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ArjunPandit » 19 Feb 2019 00:53

after the MBS visit, i think at least one of the party is hugely delusional, either it is us or it is the pakis. He is not coming to India, pakis treating as if Indians are not going to do anything. China reacting in usual platitude and modi sounding more and more ominous. What's brewing. Like our ISRO launches, it will be dud only

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ArjunPandit » 19 Feb 2019 01:35

Xposting from Pulwama attack thread
posting.php?f=3&p=2321755
ramana wrote:
ArjunPandit wrote:sometimes i think this is reverse thucidyde trap by pakis or thucidydes by the chinese.
Pakis because if they dont act now, things will get progressively more difficult to move India. better let the steam off now than the pressure cooker blasting with a 40 sqnd airforce full of Su30, Tejas, Mig and Rafales that can hold PLAAF. Chinese because their growth is stalling and they need an external diversion to show reassert them as a top dog



My devious mind thinks like this.
The Pakis got a go ahead to hit India after the last day of 16th Lok Sabha. *
On paper the govt is lame duck waiting for the elections.
This is same situation as in 1999 during Kargil that ABV govt was toppled with No Confidence Motion.(NCM engineered by Su Swamy with Jaylalitha. She is dead and he is a saint now).

Pakis being clever engineered the hit on Iran to draw them into the fight.
This will solidify the Middle East on Pakistan side as there is widespread fear of Iran over there.
So the trap is how will Modi govt retaliate without involving the Iranis?

I think we see the Iranis retaliating in kind in Baluchistan by targeting the Pak Army convoys.
This decouples the major fight which is coming.

We see a lot of minions egging on Modi Govt and raising the expectation as they are working to masters puppet strings.
US goal is to make India commit to Afghanistan to save their chestnuts from the fire.

Indian goal is to diminish Pakistan first.
Geopolitics demands that..

Mackinder (World Island, Warm Water ports) and Curzon buffer state theory (Romanes Frontiers lecture) has collapsed.

Will go to Afghanistan on own time table.


* Don't ask me who gave go ahead? I am fuzzy but think Pakistan would not have acted on own. And China is too involved in fighting off Orange. So by elimination whoever wants India in Afghanistan without paying the price.
IOW this still retains the World island idea by keeping out Russia from Afghanistan. We saw what happens if Afghanistan falls to ISIS type dregs. Putin will intervene as its his near abroad and is closer than Syria.
Last edited by ArjunPandit on 19 Feb 2019 01:37, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ArjunPandit » 19 Feb 2019 01:36

^ramana sir, i too had similar thoughts. This is beyond paki tactically brilliance comprehension. But I and wondering if it is SD or whotus or the deep state. I put my money on the devious ways of WH rather than SD that is too pro china.
Personally speaking Indian presence is becoming more and more essential in afghanistan
1. to decouple ChiPak
2. destroy pak
3. sanitize and stabilize the region.
Perhaps retake of PoK at critical places serve this purpose well. I know this is difficult so we will have to find our Ardennes to bypass the maginot line. We will be vulnerable, take huge casualties, but that would tighten the screws visibly on the menace called pakistan and end the bogey of CPEC. This is a huge leap and I dont think we have an appetite for it. But personally speaking this is what needs to be done to end napakistan in an accelerated fashion. It's a game 2:1 badminton or is it not.

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ramana » 19 Feb 2019 07:13

ArjunPandit wrote:after the MBS visit, i think at least one of the party is hugely delusional, either it is us or it is the pakis. He is not coming to India, pakis treating as if Indians are not going to do anything. China reacting in usual platitude and modi sounding more and more ominous. What's brewing. Like our ISRO launches, it will be dud only


MBS is going back to KSA and traveling from there to Delhi. he did not want to give wrong impression by traveling from Islamabad.

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby Singha » 19 Feb 2019 08:28

MBS is very much landing in india today after a overnight halt back in saudi.

so it seems saudi, uae first and now TSP has signed on as the local agencies for the next phase of the middle east TANDAV which is bringing peace, progress and democracy (PPD) to Iran.

Tāṇḍavam (Kannada: ತಾಂಡವ, Tamil: தாண்டவம்) (also known as Tāṇḍava natyam) is a divine dance performed by the Hindu god Shiva. Shiva's Tandava is described as a vigorous dance that is the source of the cycle of creation, preservation and dissolution. ... In Shaiva Siddhanta tradition, Shiva as Nataraja

so far Iraq has stoutly opposed the american desire to use their firebases and camps in northern and western iraq to pivot from fighting ISIS (and spying on iranian movements) into a launchpad for supporting "freedom fighters" from the rugged mountains of the kurdish belt along the border and thereafter as a invasion if iran descends into civil war.

the last results of the whole PPD scam (american edition) leaves us skeptical of the outcome. 17 years of PPD in afghanistan and 28 in iraq killed millions, spent trillions, and brought things to the same state or worse. the agencies of american state apparatus from intel to redevelopment to contracting ate up all the trillions and got workshare programs, the defence industry got replacement orders and .... everyone got stuff to do barring the natives to whom peace and democracy was supposed to be brought.

in venezuela, the oppn leader backed by the west is a suave obamaish george washington univ graduate. one awaits the emergence of a iranian dissident of similar polished credentials in the west soon...making demands that IRC step down and hand over iran back to its people (those vetted by the west ie)

iran does have the advantage of a border with the caspian sea and CAR states, and there on into the russo-sinic central continental zone which is out of reach for the west to dismantle or disrupt. but its economy is not much diversified and hurting due to lack of ability to buy the technologies it needs to develop and oil sanctions.

iran too like india, has a very western pasand "liberal elite" who can rise to the call of their masters and make the right noises.

India needs to damage TSP by all means fair or foul to keep it manageable.

the partition of afghanistan back into the west, north and southern zones is now inevitable. iran and russia would hate to the have the taliban back on their borders with the full backing of the west and pak to cause mayhem.

there are a lot of morally and ethically violative things that are absolutely necessary to the survival of a national state.


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