Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Feb 2019 10:13

the mongol attempts to cross the indus and plunder delhi were defeated by the turkic khalji sultanate by virtue of their cavalry, knowledge of the land and some experienced generals incl the infamous malik kafur.
a lot of captives were executed and their heads put on sticks to decorate a tower in Siri fort near iit campus in hauz khas. some were allowed to resettle perhaps the skilled craftsmen in the tuman and this area of NE delhi is known as "mongolpuri" till date.

its not a small thing, over a period of 100 years, repeated plundering incursions were made, and each time, despite some iffy situations, the turkic sultanates of delhi were able to comprehensively defeat each attempt of the powerful Chagatai khanate who none ever managed to beat in this manner because of their endless supply of horses , and highly experienced all-cavalry armies....pillage, mobility and plunder a way of life from birth vs the more settled societies of the Il-khanate(persia-mesopotamia) and mongol-cheen khanate. only the golden horde khanate further north might have had similar huge mobile armies on the russian steppe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_in ... he_Khaljis

and while the generals and much of the cavalry may have been turkic in the sultanate, much of the infantry and craftsmen would likely be local people of the north and levies - these turkic people were probably pre dating the mongols in CAR region and called "Seljuk" and "Oghuz" turks. they started out from mongolia and kazakhstan and ended up in Anatolia to create todays turkey but are all over in georgia, armenia, CAR stans...

finally the chagatai khanate split into portions until Timur became powerful....his grandson was Babur.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Feb 2019 13:01

Kashi wrote:
ramana wrote:very happy today.
Why saar? What happened to make you so happy?

So far it was a matter of if Endgame would occur. Now I realize its matter of when.

Pulwama attack shows how disconnected the TSP is.

They have terrorists claiming openly of conducting the attack using RDX a military explosive and their joker Kejriwal leader wants proof!

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 21 Feb 2019 15:14

^^I am surprised you had this realization now. I could feel that in 2016 when the dipoles were clearly visible. However, the public reaction to the uri movie left me in no doubt that I am not living in an echo chamber it is the desire of millions of people who want this madness to end. Hence, I started this thread. Although, I had this in my mind since long. The only caution is that we dont overreach ourselves. So many forces are against this behind our back. We should not bite more than we can chew. Hope the powers taht be prepared in past.

nandakumar · Post by **nandakumar** » 21 Feb 2019 15:20

ramana wrote:
Kashi wrote:
Why saar? What happened to make you so happy?

So far it was a matter of if Endgame would occur. Now I realize its matter of when.

Pulwama attack shows how disconnected the TSP is.

They have terrorists claiming openly of conducting the attack using RDX a military explosive and their joker Kejriwal leader wants proof!

I guess that is what you can expect of one who got into IIT Kharagpur through faculty quota.

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 21 Feb 2019 16:19

^^i did see a news report with his IIT AIR and KGP CGPA. It is not that difficult to find. Some people in hatred for modi have walked off the precipice, without realizing. These liberals have blood of our soliders on their hands

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 21 Feb 2019 20:29

What the Iranians need is air cover. Until recently this was not possible: Pakis controlled skies over A'stan and USAD/NATO would probably frown on Hezbollah in A'Stan. But today I can think of TWO major air forces: One can cover the iranians inside A'Stan from both north and south - with permission of the Af. govt; the other can deter anyone from attacking inside Iran. I think the time has come. OK, Syria has to be really secured, but then it is time.

IOW, there may be good reasons why MBS is crying ~~Uncle~~Big Brother and comes bearing $100B.

OTOH, think of the effect $100B can have on Taiban-e-Malloostan.

What is NaMo thinking I wonder.

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 21 Feb 2019 21:08

Sonic boom over Sialkot. Pakistanis thinking IAF has attacked them

V_Raman · Post by **V_Raman** » 22 Feb 2019 02:07

Things are coming a head.

Indus diversion
ICJ and likely Jadhav release order
Pulwana and Masood Azhar - likely getting declared as terrorist by UN based on latest UNSC statement

Nervous times...

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 22 Feb 2019 04:22

Cheen vetoed/declared intention to veto at UNSC, so there is only a toothless declaration, no formal resolution. Not that it matters a pakistan.
What is this Indus diversion? Any chance of building a megadam and releasing at height of monsoon a la Keralastan govt I wonder? Preferably to reach Lahore at 10PM?

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 22 Feb 2019 17:48

UlanBatori wrote:Cheen vetoed/declared intention to veto at UNSC, so there is only a toothless declaration, no formal resolution. Not that it matters a pakistan.
What is this Indus diversion? Any chance of building a megadam and releasing at height of monsoon a la Keralastan govt I wonder? Preferably to reach Lahore at 10PM?

I would say less than the return of Ghenghis khan from land of mongolia. Nothing much can be done in short term apart from here and there. But what has been done is a good start to the long term solution. Never heard about IWT outside BRF during entire 2004-2014 period apart from the projects that were initiated by ABV. This is something they fear a lot, but at the same time if we squeeze this too much, esp before it is ready, we may not get much either under pressure. Imagine few 100 million poor pakis dying thirsty and broke because India stopped water at right time or some damn dam in india developed cracks at wrong time.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 22 Feb 2019 18:20

The other aspect is that by winning a Tactical Victory at UNSC in getting Jaish-e-Mohammed dissed by all, India has done a Musharraf-Kargil.
Tomorrow Pakistan will BAN

Jaish-e-Mohammed. To wild applause from UNSC, WHOTUS, GOTUS, EU, etc. Aunty Su will be praised to high houristan at the UN, like Swami V at the "Whirled Parliament of Relijjuns" at the Chicago Whirled Trade Fair and Circus many saal pehle. Desis will sing of this this legendary achievement. Perhaps she will climb into the terminological stratosphere with terms such as Terminological Inexactitude.

The new organization Jaish-e-Prophet will come up. The game starts all over again. This should make it evident why this Tough Resolution was sponsored by UKstan and Phrogistan.

It also hammers home the UN-approved notion that it is only ***NON-STATE ACTORS**** that are playing from Bakistan, Bakistan guvrmand is as pure as the land itself and Tall and Fair as the (never mind).

So when the next truck-bomb vacuum burst occurs, all India has to do is get Jaish-e-Prophet banned.

So sorry, I don't see that this is in any way compatible with Immediate Revenge. Which may be a good thing, because I think it is immoral to ask Indian soldiers to risk their lives on some intricate mission to go damage a few pakistans in a terrorist camp and maybe send a few more dregs of humanity to Houristan. Totally pointless.

Now since India does **NOT*** interfere in the infernal relations inside any neighboring country per Panchsheel, India can only sit and wait - and perhaps give some air cover to friendly nations who face attacks while they are on expeditionary missions to save minorities from genocide. Like in Swat. Or Balwaristan. Or say, Pakhtoonistan or Sindh.

Skanda · Post by **Skanda** » 22 Feb 2019 19:45

UlanBatori wrote:The other aspect is that by winning a Tactical Victory at UNSC in getting Jaish-e-Mohammed dissed by all, India has done a Musharraf-Kargil.

If this means nothing, why did China try and obstruct this resolution passing? Surely, the Chinese saw something in this resolution.

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 22 Feb 2019 20:52

have patience UBji, mongol empire was not won over a weekend

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 22 Feb 2019 21:07

Skanda wrote:
UlanBatori wrote:The other aspect is that by winning a Tactical Victory at UNSC in getting Jaish-e-Mohammed dissed by all, India has done a Musharraf-Kargil.
If this means nothing, why did China try and obstruct this resolution passing? Surely, the Chinese saw something in this resolution.

It helps in every other thing we are trying to do from economic grey listing of Pakistan to world cup boycott due to terrorism. Why is cricket boycott and scuttling of PSL important. D-Company, ISI and Paki netas make money from cricket related gambling. Lot of their self worth and self respect is derived from it.

Next big victory would be Pakistan getting shunned in world cup fully or partially (they moved to a different group so that India doesn't play them in league stage at least).

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Feb 2019 22:02

nandakumar wrote:
ramana wrote:

So far it was a matter of if Endgame would occur. Now I realize its matter of when.

Pulwama attack shows how disconnected the TSP is.

They have terrorists claiming openly of conducting the attack using RDX a military explosive and their joker Kejriwal leader wants proof!
I guess that is what you can expect of one who got into IIT Kharagpur through faculty quota.

Who are you talking about?
Me?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Feb 2019 22:05

Folks listen to UB and read between the lines. He can't spell it out in 12 point fonts.
Some thinking required.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 22 Feb 2019 22:05

The UN making everyone sneer at Pakis etc is all 400% fine and commendable. Only problem is that Pakis are expert at agreeing 400% to stop terrorism since they have never supported it, being Ppl of Biss etc. Then how does one go and slap someone who has already declared the error of their brats' ways, hain? So UK etc are protecting them from jhapad by pulling this resolution stunt.

Question is whether India has the gumption to say Jaish, paish, it's actually PA/ISI so take this!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Feb 2019 22:13

Good question.
ShyamD had said MBS brought some proposals
a) MBS will be the interlocutor
b) IM says he will investigate
c) Trust IM

I replied no to all with rationale in the Pulwama thread.

Ashokk · Post by **Ashokk** » 22 Feb 2019 22:20

UlanBatori wrote:The other aspect is that by winning a Tactical Victory at UNSC in getting Jaish-e-Mohammed dissed by all, India has done a Musharraf-Kargil.
Tomorrow Pakistan will BAN Jaish-e-Mohammed.

Pakistan government takes control of Jaish headquarters amid global pressure to rein in terror outfits

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 22 Feb 2019 22:45

ramana wrote: Who are you talking about?
Me?

before this blows up ....our fav leader kejriwal

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 22 Feb 2019 22:50

UlanBatori wrote:The UN making everyone sneer at Pakis etc is all 400% fine and commendable. Only problem is that Pakis are expert at agreeing 400% to stop terrorism since they have never supported it, being Ppl of Biss etc. Then how does one go and slap someone who has already declared the error of their brats' ways, hain? So UK etc are protecting them from jhapad by pulling this resolution stunt.

Question is whether India has the gumption to say Jaish, paish, it's actually PA/ISI so take this!

ubji How can the rest of world know if there are no pictures of say a glide bomb or brahmos on muridkey.
UN folks can always be given a helicopter trip as a proof that nothing happened. No can enter the impregnable walls of pakistan airforce

Just in case someone has a spare eye in the skai we can we say that a non state actor commandeered a fighter jet like Su30 to say use a glide bomb and brahmos.

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 22 Feb 2019 22:55

ArjunPandit wrote:
ramana wrote: Who are you talking about?
Me?
before this blows up ....our fav leader kejriwal

Perhaps to clear up the confusion, his original post was referring to Imran Khan I think (with Kejriwal-like being used similarly to an adjective).

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 22 Feb 2019 23:02

Just in case someone has a spare eye in the skai we can we say that a non state actor commandeered a fighter jet like Su30 to say use a glide bomb and brahmos.

I am SHOCKED!

Indians advocating use of violence!!!
Psst: have you ever seen pictures of the Frontier Corpses after their convoys got hit by frying-pan wielding local wimmens, say in Swat? FATA? If not, y not, hain? India has NOTHING to do with any of that. V r non-violent onlee. Insaniyat Over Insanity. Ahimsa.

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 23 Feb 2019 00:25

^^agreed, now herding back to the topic, iran is all quiet afterwards. While people dismiss of two front theory on other threads, how on this thread it becomes applicable. Obviously IAF can provide top air cover to Eyeran, wont be easy given the distance, and lack of aerial tankers and the mighty airforce. But then do we really need that dense air cover? What do they have to defend on western border. And if they have on wesetrn border what do they have on eastern. Would be hard to figure unless one has been monitoring them for quiet long.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Feb 2019 01:13

New analysts should read these 3 essays and Shiv's e-book

http://voiceofdharma.org/books/cpak/

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Feb 2019 02:14

Please all shift to Pulwama thread.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 23 Feb 2019 03:14

AP, IAF already inside Eyeran. no overflight needed.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 23 Feb 2019 03:20

UlanBatori wrote:AP, IAF already inside Eyeran. no overflight needed.

Link please.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 23 Feb 2019 05:33

ramana wrote:
nandakumar wrote: I guess that is what you can expect of one who got into IIT Kharagpur through faculty quota.
Who are you talking about?
Me?

He's probably referring to Thapparwaal me thinks.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 23 Feb 2019 07:01

Mort Walker wrote:
UlanBatori wrote:AP, IAF already inside Eyeran. no overflight needed.
Link please.

Sorry, UBCN collects most of our info from The One And Only: Pee Aref. It was somewhere in the vast jungles of these dhagas. Probably best not exhibited.

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 26 Feb 2019 05:42

RDji has posted an important aspect, altogether ignored so far on this thread. How do we take care of refugee problem. Afghan war, syrian war and all protracted wars have had this issue. With majority of pakis fed for facts/lies against India it would be a a big and immediate problem to take care of, and as always mongols had a ready made response.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 26 Feb 2019 06:23

Afghanistan has had a horrible war, since at least the 1970s: How many millions of Afghans have upset the delicate balance of Pakistani demo(no)cracy, hain? Or Iranian? Or Uzbek/Turkmen/Tajik? Why does India have to be so dhoti-shivering? Yes, there will be some refugees for instance the millions of RAA agints who are waiting to be the 5th Column when the "Balloon goes up" (WTH is The Balloon Going Up? Does that happen when there is a war? I thought only fireworks display starts)

souravB · Post by **souravB** » 26 Feb 2019 07:08

APji, as per RDji's analysis our decision makers will draw the line in taking what's legally ours.
In that scenario, while taking POK, we'll have to bombard indiscriminately all the settlements that falls in the area of our interest. Ofcourse we'll announce of our intent to bomb a day or so before the actual bombing begin. Push the kabaili settlers back towards mainland Pak.
Our forces have to advance, announce the bombing, bomb the area to clear it, take over and stop anybody coming back.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 26 Feb 2019 07:21

Announce location and time of bombing raids? So that the AA/ PAF can be ready? That's what I meant by the genuflective tendency of civilian netas who think they are in RamaRajya. I would bomb at the deepest hour of the pre-dawn to catch as many as possible in their beds or goat-sheds. Then you need only ONE raid: after that you can just announce and they will run.

souravB · Post by **souravB** » 26 Feb 2019 07:43

That works too.. but while it is said our forces have advanced, it implies we have superiority over not only land but air too.
If it is any consideration, PAF solahs without BVR were deterred by our Mig-29 with BVR providing cover to our M2000s on a bombing run during Kargil and now PAF solahs with AIM120c will be deterred by our Su-30s.

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 26 Feb 2019 20:12

not sure what exaclty is being discussed in last few posts. But it seems like the endgame is still far away

Shanmukh · Post by **Shanmukh** » 27 Feb 2019 00:16

UlanBatori wrote:Announce location and time of bombing raids? So that the AA/ PAF can be ready? That's what I meant by the genuflective tendency of civilian netas who think they are in RamaRajya. I would bomb at the deepest hour of the pre-dawn to catch as many as possible in their beds or goat-sheds. Then you need only ONE raid: after that you can just announce and they will run.

Yes. After the first bombing raid that catches most of the terrorists in their beds, announce the time of the next. They will run and the friendly neighbourhood IAF can be around to catch them in the open. No need of bombs or missiles the second time - a few light machine guns and bullets will do. Weren't we hearing that the gun on the Tejas needs to be tested? What better than live targets?

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 27 Feb 2019 00:29

Endgame is starting further west/south. Effectivness depends on how the present game in the east is played out: Can PA be totally humiliated, and can aam Pakis actually SEE them being humiliated? This is essential to cut down their stranglehold. Once they are in disarray, the endgame moves forward.

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 27 Feb 2019 01:11

seems like paki armymen are bored up with protecting chinese and fighting jihadis. They are up to fight evil yindoos, perhaps in sialkot sector. Are they not going for akhnoor this time around?

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 28 Feb 2019 03:05

For ONCE (and that may be the end for us all..) I would like to see India **NOT** worry about the Proportionality of Response, Non-Military Air Raids

Far Away From Civilians, Respectful Treatment of LOC...

and go all-out and smash 600 (or whatever number they have) of the SPICE things and laser-guided bombs into Paki HQ, Muzzafarabad, Mudike, Karachi, LaHore, Sialkot, Sargodha, Peshawar. Also bring the IN to light up Karachi, Gwadar and any other ports they have, plus sink all their damned submarines, all-out air raids on their missile silos.
PLUS... absolute decapitation strikes on the entire PA leadership. Offer full support and recognition to the new Free Balochistan, Free Pakhtoonistan and Free Balwaristan governments, and provide air cover for them to smash the PA in their respective provinces.
Damn the cost. Just do it.

Let the Pakis beg for "reasonableness" as they come as refugees fleeing their own vengeful, long-repressed compatriots. Get a Guillotine and 50 lamp-posts going 24/7.