Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 15 Mar 2019 02:03

^Not just Twitter. It's an article in the Print (not at all a pro-GOI outlet) regarding an Enforcement Directorate investigation looking into this. Arrests will only come after subpeonas, trials, etc. (otherwise "intolerance", "authoritarian", "fascist" etc. objections will be raised by the staunchest defenders of Bakistanis). But the very question is explosive, yes!

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 15 Mar 2019 06:16

Need to publicize to educate voters... WhatsApp?

syam · Post by **syam** » 15 Mar 2019 10:32

ArjunPandit wrote:^^syam very interesting point can you please share any link/read on these

link

ricky_v · Post by **ricky_v** » 15 Mar 2019 10:55

I have always found the phrase "created winter" odd, what does that even mean, that they were pushed off from sunshine lands to cold ones? Also Persians since zaruthrustra have given too much importance to purity and single deity worship,that they are against sins or bad morals is quintessential Persian.

banrjeer · Post by **banrjeer** » 15 Mar 2019 11:31

Sanskrit equivalents:
Haroyu (6) Sarayu of uttarkhand/UP?? seems a bit of a stretch but possible
Harahvaiti (10) Sarasvati
Haetumant (11) sEtumant ??
Ragha (12) rigvedic rasa
Hapta hindu (15) sapta sindhu
-------

Baloch is west iranian, pashtu, Tajik are eastern Iranian languages. with one twist all these Iranic speakers use retroflex stops in their speech like Indians, in addition to dental stops unlike in Iran (only dental). I wonder what Baloch speakers in Sistan do.

banrjeer · Post by **banrjeer** » 15 Mar 2019 11:36

Anyway it seems like Saudis are trying to incite/exploit the sunni Baloch of Sistan.

http://balochwarna.com/2018/02/17/the-a ... ddle-east/

banrjeer · Post by **banrjeer** » 15 Mar 2019 11:43

http://thebalochistanpost.net/2019/01/t ... an-baloch/

syam · Post by **syam** » 19 Mar 2019 10:30

Rakesh wrote:Can you please advise what you were expecting?

Let's see what's there on the paper. We have,

GoI(Modiji Team+babus) + Armed Forces + Intel.

What happened so far,

* Pakis attacked our convoy - GoI gave free hand to forces. Intel helped them.
* We did airstrike - Forces finished the task. GoI got the report.
* Pakis provoke us - Forces responding within their constrains. GoI gone into incognito mode.

First two in the list gone flawless. My issue is with the 3rd one. I am not saying we should have launched big attack on Pak in retaliation. It's just how lame the third one gone.

Suppose we are going with the de-escalation route. Public are happy with the airstrike so far. There is no pressure on GoI to respond to pak provocation. How we should have handled it,

1. We know we are not going to take any overt action anytime soon. GoI should have given us glimpse of road map on how they go with the 'de-escalation'. There is virtually zero communication from GoI on this. Don't get me wrong. I am not expecting full plan. But at least some random noise should be there.
2. Cleaning up the board and preparing for next one. India is more than just pakistan and kashmir. This issue is small thing in big game of things. Post-conflict, no clean up happened. It's big mess out there. It's like GoI has no interest in these conflicts at all and they are forced into this situation.

My guess is, this whole operation is never been in the minds of our GoI folks. PM forced them to do it. That's why they choked in the aftermath. They never expected something like this. Words like pre-emptive are from Doval sir book. Not from our babus.

It's so wrong in many levels. India is not just Modiji, his supporters, armed forces and few spies. We have 1 bill population. It's damn huge nation. We could have done it much better.

p.s. I am not breaking any rule. We are supposed to have end-game plan. I am trying to come up with my own.

ricky_v · Post by **ricky_v** » 19 Mar 2019 10:46

syam wrote: Let's see what's there on the paper. We have,

GoI(Modiji Team+babus) + Armed Forces + Intel.

What happened so far,

* Pakis attacked our convoy - GoI gave free hand to forces. Intel helped them.
* We did airstrike - Forces finished the task. GoI got the report.
* Pakis provoke us - Forces responding within their constrains. GoI gone into incognito mode.

First two in the list gone flawless. My issue is with the 3rd one. I am not saying we should have launched big attack on Pak in retaliation. It's just how lame the third one gone.

Suppose we are going with the de-escalation route. Public are happy with the airstrike so far. There is no pressure on GoI to do respond to pak provocation. How we should have handled it,

1. We know we are not going to take any overt action anytime soon. GoI should have given us glimpse of road map on how they go with the 'de-escalation'. There is virtually zero communication from GoI on this. Don't get me wrong. I am not expecting full plan. But at least some random noise should be there.

When the goi has zero communication with everyone, why assume that we are not going for any overt action anytime soon sir? Goi has sucked big time with pr and media management, that has been their sole fault during this time frame, the next iteration would be better once this becomes the new normal. Point is that nations have been slumming it out for a long time now, whereas our troubles were largely confined to our internal issues; now that is largely manageable, we can look at external foes and shiny communication as well, just give it a few more attempts.

2. Cleaning up the board and preparing for next one. India is more than just pakistan and kashmir. This issue is small thing in big game of things. Post-conflict, no clean up happened. It's big mess out there. It's like GoI has no interest in these conflicts at all and they are forced into this situation.

My guess is, this whole operation is never been in the minds of our GoI folks. PM forced them to do it. That's why they choked in the aftermath. They never expected something like this. Words like pre-emptive are from Doval sir book. Not from our babus.

The babus may or may not be martial in their outlook, we may never know; but in the aftermath there was a large scale crackdown with nia/ed on various locations, once the valley becomes restive again we should compare the magnitude of protest and the duration of its existence.

syam · Post by **syam** » 19 Mar 2019 11:09

ricky_v wrote:Goi has sucked big time with pr and media management,

It's not the pr, saar. Pr is different ball game. Our babus not giving even basic feels. It was modiji supporters and retired fauj who did the heavy lifting. Nation is more than that. How are we supposed to achieve anything if we depend on these guys?

They seem like some holy men whom we can't touch and above scrutiny. We never considered surgical strikes not because the weak PM. It's because of the people in capitol. They are so incompetent.

ricky_v · Post by **ricky_v** » 19 Mar 2019 11:23

syam wrote: They seems like some holy men whom we can't touch and above scrutiny. We never considered surgical strikes not because the weak PM. It's because of the people in capitol. They are incompetent.

That is because the strike was unprecedented, we have all been baying for blood for so long it felt unreal when something actually happened. What I meant was that there is no system in place for such actions nor any ready-made list of responses from the goi for such eventuality. What stops the babus to make this entirely indian in nature and respond with section x, subsection yy, para zdf? Once such action plans are put in place and responses prepared in accordance with the nature of strike and the legality of pre-emptive and non-uniformed personnel, it will seem much smoother.
Of course it goes without saying that actions are necessary first and foremost, the babudoms service in such matters and their tiresome lingo are support services to both internal and international viewers.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 Mar 2019 12:31

imo the complete silence from the PM on the indo-pak situation is what terrifies them more than 10 fiery oratory speeches.

they have been trying to provoke and engage him to get an idea of his intentions, trying to run him down in media to elicit a response. trying to send third party envoys to meet. i recall one interview where iirc karan thapar tried to get smart on him. he just kept silent and kept looking at him intently, not saying one word, but big eyes behind the glasses.....the interviewer started shitting bricks soon and was at a loss for words

foreboding brooding silence...

it is the silence of a Lion who has made up its mind to punish a troublesome hyena and is silently padding through the dry grass...

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 19 Mar 2019 12:48

There is too much clamor about Modi Ji laying out a roadmap on what GOI will do next with Pakistan. It is always fluid and dynamic situation with Bakis. Why show mistrust towards your own govt.

Lately it has been a time pass to blame Babus for everything. I don't know what PR posters are expecting. It wasn't launch of URI, the movie. Battles and escalation are serious matters and GoI will not go beyond a point punishing Pakistan. Like it or not, There will always be a proportionate response.

@Singha: Silence is so uncomfortable.
We humans can not withstand silence hence Lame-Media not liking Modi Ji.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 Mar 2019 12:56

yes...one of the things they teach in public speaking is to allow deft silences and not fill it with uh umm aaa

syam · Post by **syam** » 19 Mar 2019 13:17

No one expecting Modiji to do something. I didn't criticise him. It's about the other guys in GoI. Modiji is busy with elections now. He must have given the reigns to them. Is this the reason why pakis chose election time to attack?

Anyway, I got my answer. May be this is how the government works. No use in complaining about it. Have to wait till the Lion returns.

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 19 Mar 2019 16:49

I am willing to bet both my kidneys on it that when modiji will dedicate a speech to napakistan, the endgame will be in final stages. You dont speak when you dont plan to do anything. Apart from balochistan, this govt has spoken only when they had done significant background work in silence. That always makes me thing, are the camels being sent to kalat??

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Mar 2019 06:06

Arjun I wrote something on a SM group which I want you to read...

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Mar 2019 06:11

Ramana:
In my high school history book, Second battle of Terrain, 1192 would mark end of Hindu period and begining of Islamic period. Same way 1757 would mark begining of British period.
We used have to write essay on why Muslim rule was inevitable: divided Hindus, war only for Kshatriya, code of Kshatriya conduct, elephants, superior weapons technology.
Once TSP was formed, Anglo-Saxon West ensured this last part was maintained - Patton tanks, F-86 Sabre, F-104 Starfighter armed with Sidewinder, F-16s armed with AMRAAM missile, JDAM bombs. What they could not give, their buddies would provide. E.g.. The South Africans who survived on GOI subsidy in the doldrums years, started selling precision weapons to Pakis after apartheid was over.

What MAD did at #Balakot is wiped out this edge in superior weapons and ended the "force of history" that was siding the Islamist invaders if India.

What YAN as UP CM did to upend Islamist rule since Qutubuddin Aibek in North India, same way Balakot ended that era.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 20 Mar 2019 06:58

ramana wrote:The South Africans who survived on GOI subsidy in the doldrums years

Can you elaborate on this part?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Mar 2019 09:35

For many decades GOI used to subsidize the ANC during apartheid years quite a substantial amount.
One reason was Gandhi was a founder of ANC.
Mandela's arrest for freedom struggle was similar to India.
However, due to weak leaders when the Apartheid collapsed, India could not cash the checks.

The Apartheid regime used to sell weapons to Pak as a response.
And this continued even after ANC came to power.
Look at the SA precision weapons FizzleYa used.

Despite India inducting SA into BRICS!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Mar 2019 09:36

Lets follow up elsewhere.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 20 Mar 2019 12:05

Pakistan will not implode/explode and die away in a supernova. Like a falling object in a black hole, Pakistan will be on the event horizon falling into the black hole but not falling for many years and then it will disappear.

PS: Q for history buffs ? Was there man and material help to Islamic rulers of Delhi from Middle East/Turkey/Central Asia whenever they were under threat by Indic rulers ?

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 20 Mar 2019 12:29

the indic rulers were too divided to pose a real threat to islmaic rulers of delhi. there were merceranies who used to come looking for loot in the various campaigns of delhi rulers.. but not as organised body to the best of my knowledge. means of communication etc were too slow in those times ...

banrjeer · Post by **banrjeer** » 20 Mar 2019 12:58

The GOI of today is no match for even petty Indian rulers of the past like Mir Qasim, Tipu Sultan who played the dutch against British east india company, french against British with limited armies and resources. They lost not because they were not skilled in state craft but because they were competing with powers with long therm stability who managed risk. The east India company had the crown, legal system and shareholders to answer to.

The Chinese are colonizing Africa in a similar manner it's the state mercantile industrial machinery cranking. Not saying predatory lending is something to aspire to but the GOI's inhibitions in its own neighbourhood are almost immoral.

Let's hope Modi can break the jinx

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 20 Mar 2019 13:55

ramana wrote:Arjun I wrote something on a SM group which I want you to read...

MardanG pe Bhoookha bhediya, remember the three O

syam · Post by **syam** » 20 Mar 2019 14:46

Finally understood what's going on.

Elections were announced on March 10th. PMO last tweet was on 11th march. Following days, we have ndtv and print guys doing super-exclusive breaking news and getting access to MoD files. All this means one thing. King is not at the capitol now. He is traveling to countryside and galvanizing his supporters. It's the court which is running the day to day show. General and the advisor are busy at the borders and keeping the enemy in check.

We need to hold the fort till the king returns to the capitol.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Mar 2019 14:51

Vikas wrote:Pakistan will not implode/explode and die away in a supernova. Like a falling object in a black hole, Pakistan will be on the event horizon falling into the black hole but not falling for many years and then it will disappear.

PS: Q for history buffs ? Was there man and material help to Islamic rulers of Delhi from Middle East/Turkey/Central Asia whenever they were under threat by Indic rulers ?

the imperial mughal army which had 100,000 cavalry imported 1000s of expensive horses from traders in central asia _every year_ no doubt at great expenses. after a few generations these horses would become enfeebled by the indian climate and become weak and unfit for battle. so a running window of fresh horses needed every year.

==> this was like massa, turkey giving PAF squadrons of fresh F-16 every year to throw at the kuffar.

babur and humayun received significant help from persian and afghan side when facing setbacks in india.

this luxury was not there for hindu kingdoms of south (vijaynagara, chola), who imported small batches for the elite kings guard via ships on the west coast from arabia.

the numbers of the native kathiawari and marwari horses too small and these areas always under threat of or under the sultanat!

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 20 Mar 2019 16:44

^ OT but there must have been local Animals fit for the rigors of battle in Indian conditions.

One of the ways to drown Pakistan is to work on choking their supplies from Friendly countries. Maybe Hire few Financial fraudsters and give them Money to cause financial doom of Pakistan like Soros did with East Asian economies in last 90's.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Mar 2019 00:06

Vikas wrote:^ OT but there must have been local Animals fit for the rigors of battle in Indian conditions.

One of the ways to drown Pakistan is to work on choking their supplies from Friendly countries. Maybe Hire few Financial fraudsters and give them Money to cause financial doom of Pakistan like Soros did with East Asian economies in last 90's.

No need all are in Fauji Foundation of Jihad-e-Fistula.

Mihaylo · Post by **Mihaylo** » 21 Mar 2019 00:24

UlanBatori wrote:Reminds me of the awful thing that occurred to UBCN Goat-brain storming group this morning.
We argued that the observed panic and airspace closure was reminescent of the days leading to 9/11/2001, but failed to carry that analysis the remaining one step: 9/11 happened.

What are they planning this time??
They have realized that their Patrons have sold them down the river: the vaunted PAF has missiles that are no better than rocks. Their radar can't see or aim. Their jehadi hideouts are known to the enemy. There is a massive crackdown on their "assets" inside yindoostan. Their nuke bluff has been called. The constitutional scams that helped keep the Kashmiris barefoot and pregnant, and about to be tossed aside, and massive bania invasion is months away.

The Yoo Enn has torn their burkha to shreds and even the Yoo Ess has called yindoo atrocities "counter-terrorism". Guantanamo begins to look like Houristan, compared to what awaits the Jarnails....

Balochistan shows rapidly widening fractures.

Hated Yindoo Supremacists have declared election, and look on track to win 2nd term. At which point, given recent events, their mandate WILL be to finish the job.

Current YYY lovefest will rapidly transition to an alliance to keep Taliban out of Afghanistan - at which point where else will they turn except towards Pindi and LaHore?

You see my point? I don't want to sound alarmist, but I AM alarmed. We used to have a "THINK LIKE A PAKI" thread until we realized that was an oxymoron, but if you had a reptilean brain, what would be ur next step?

Think outside the box, we should:
1) Increase security for Namo
2) Increase security for Dalai Lama
3) Increase security for the Dynasty
4) Plan for increased push by Pakistan in Afghanistan including attacks on Indian interests
5) Use of proxies such as Rohingiyas and Bangladeshis to attack within India for 1, 2 & 3 above

-M

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 21 Mar 2019 01:22

UBCN recommendation is not to dhoti-shiver but to keep the other side entertained:
1) Recognize the Legitimate Aspirations Of The Baloch People and recognize their F-e-A (Fauj-e-Azadi) and government. Might inspire the other 4 to likewise step their game.

2) Ship a few thousand ATGMs to them (Gen. Vodkov will have a few that were seized, 400% halal NATO issue, presented by the ISIS and Moderate Beheaders).

3) Provide IAF air cover to the Legitimate Government of Afghanistan, to seal their southern border (I mean to northward traffic). May need an agreement with the friendly Republican Guards of Iran.

4) Use ISRO satellites for Remote Education, beaming IPL cricket to Balochistan along with some other programming...

5) Declare Quetta to be a Sister City of Mumbai (wasn't Jinnah orijinally from there?) IOW, any damage to Mumbai... corresponding 10x damage to Quetta in the appropriate parts. Note #3 above. No need for any Long Range Tanks etc.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 22 Mar 2019 11:26

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Belt- ... t-and-Road

ricky_v · Post by **ricky_v** » 22 Mar 2019 12:00

yeh naya pakistan hai, yeh bheekh bhi mangega aur ******* bhi baneyega....wait, so what was it before?
Also, big time pissing in dlagons eye, ramifications should be as hard as their relationship.

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 22 Mar 2019 17:40

rickyg, may i request you to please be mindful of language, having lived in delhi, I have the best of abuses for pakis, but thats not BRF std

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 22 Mar 2019 17:44

UlanBatori wrote: 5) Declare Quetta to be a Sister City of Mumbai (wasn't Jinnah orijinally from there?) IOW, any damage to Mumbai... corresponding 10x damage to Quetta in the appropriate parts. Note #3 above. No need for any Long Range Tanks etc.

just wondering why UBCN didnt consider kara-chiii as sister city. Broken kara-chii will break their back. or does ubcn advises users, those in power, to anyways wipe kara-chiii out

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 22 Mar 2019 17:46

Wondering if someone thought of printing fake pakistani currency? Not that there's any real currency. But it would be a good accelerator in endgame. Like someone in balochistan finding a hidden treasure of 1 lakh pkr, they might be from mushy hired killers of bugti or chinese stoodges. Or someone in Balwaristan killling some PA officer for few lakhs against his indulgences, strictly against islamic traditions.

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 22 Mar 2019 17:49

^^Oh seems like Bhedia Samachar (BS) is behind the curve, just like fox news,
https://www.dawn.com/news/1386859
https://propakistani.pk/2018/02/13/aler ... on-rising/
http://dunyanews.tv/en/Pakistan/380678- ... rough-Indi

banrjeer · Post by **banrjeer** » 22 Mar 2019 22:59

Hypothetically If a Kashmiri wanted to buy property in Kashmir on a mortgage, can he go to an Indian bank?
Does article 370 prevent a bank with non Kashmiri assets from doing business in Kashmir.

What about a lease, I doubt leases can be covered by article 370

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 22 Mar 2019 23:46

^^isnt this more suited to J&K news/discussion thread?

banrjeer · Post by **banrjeer** » 23 Mar 2019 00:05

yes will ask there... the point is that Gilgit-Baltistan-POK have the same legal mess and can't be part of an endgame