Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ramana » 31 Mar 2020 08:31

Amar_P, Go back in history. Arabs came to Sind and got confined due to Hindu Shahi rulers of Afghanistan. Then Afghanistan fell and the Turks made their way into India till 1730s check by Marathas. And then Sikhs conquest of Punjab.

Similarly stable Afghanistan is key to unravel Pakistan. They understood and started a terrorist campaign since 1975 in Afghanistan resulting in Soviet intervention in 1979.

So Afghan stability is needed to be hammer and anvil in turns to fracture Pakistan.

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ramana » 31 Mar 2020 08:33

ArjunPandit wrote:
ramana wrote:I hear rumors of Covid-19 impact on Pindi in the corpse commanders.

You mean infection or the fact that they're transferring cases to pok


No China sent Covid treatment detachment to TSP. Can't be for mango people no?

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ramana » 31 Mar 2020 10:19

I have been thinking of the long view of Radical Indian Islam. Islam came to India via the Arabs to Sind in 711 AD and to Kerala around same time from traders and locals selling /giving their daughters. It stayed benign after defeat of Arabs in Sind but Hindus did or could not impose Reconquista on them. Then Afghanistan fell to Muslim Turks 1000 AD who brought Sufi Islam and made deep inroads till decline of Mughals. 1200 to 1750. Then Marathas and later Sikhs expanded and imposed ther rule over those areas. Political Islam retreated to Afghanistan which became Turkic version of Islam and culture.

To revive political Islam there were many revert to Arabic Islam in India and abroad. Barelvi is an example of a UP born Muslim who espoused revionist Islam and got driven out to the frontier or modern Pakistan. But could not revive political Islam. Only the Partition gave power to political Islam that was lost for at least 250 years since Mughal decline. They promptly promoted an overthrow of Afghanistan starting from 1975 which led the Soviet intervention. To reclaim that area, Pakistan promoted Wahabism in basically Turkish culture. So far it has failed in all places which tried to Arabaise the Turks. So how long will this contradiction of Arabised Turks last as Taliban?
It has to break up if external threats are removed.

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby Cyrano » 31 Mar 2020 14:55

ramana wrote:So Afghan stability is needed to be hammer and anvil in turns to fracture Pakistan.


Ramana garu, agree. But those were different times with different stakes, ambitions and means for us and the invaders. Islamic mindset is the only constant, you are likely referring to that.

I'm trying to figure out the contours of the threat from Pak we are trying to find ways to neutralize.

1. Continue to needle India using cross border terrorism in Kashmir
- This strategy is a proven dead end for Pak. It has become more difficult over the years, jihadi cannon fodder is running out, and India is willing to escalate preemptively and next escalation from India will go further than Balakot. J&K is now a UT, the world has accepted India's position and as development & renewed democratic process kicks in, Pak will be less and less able to brainwash Kashmiris and replenish the jihadi ranks. 3 decades of investment coming to naught and only strengthened India's tactics, deployments and resolve.

Conclusion: Pak meddling in J&K will be less and less potent to irritate much less harm India as time goes by.

2. Mumbai/Parliament type attacks by sending Jihadists
- Dead end now. If anything it will be the perfect excuse for India to retaliate militarily, and break Pak Army's back and capture territory along the border or across LoC as punishment.

Conclusion: Pak is in no position to try something like this, and they know it.

3. Radicalise Indian muslim population and turn them against India
- Credible threat, is already happening. Learnings from radicalising Kashmiris are being put to use and much more. Low cost & low intensity war, but packs the potential to boil over like a simmering milk pot when the knob it turned just a little. Delhi riots have proven the prototype. Impacts India's image, creates fault lines in the society leading to internal strife and economic impact. Offers lot of deniability. Makes retaliatory military action seem unjustified and disproportionate.

No other significant threat angles come to my mind (may be others can highlight), so whatever we are discussing applies basically to threat no. 3.

However, India has multiple options to deal with threat No. 3 lets call it "Turning India against itself", and indeed it needs to be dealt with using multiple countermeasures. Each countermeasure has a cost, achievability, success probability and long term impact on us & Pak. I'll organise my thoughts around this and post.

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby Cyrano » 31 Mar 2020 16:08

ramana wrote: So how long will this contradiction of Arabised Turks last as Taliban?


Are the jihadi Abduls and rabble rousing Mullahs so nuanced in their thinking ? I wonder.

We never see any any analysis of the tracts and texts distributed by radical islamic groups, Urdu media is in a world of its own. The fact that Urdu (or sometimes Arabic) script is used in muslim publications which almost zero non-muslims understand is a fatal flaw, allowing radical writings and deranged thinking to flourish while hiding in plain sight.

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ArjunPandit » 31 Mar 2020 18:36

well amar..while lot of us dont read urdu/arabic texts..quite a lot of people, including myself follow the paki news quite regularly. BRF has a very accurate diagnosis of the symptoms exhibited. The radical writngs are accessible but would you risk being tracked by Intelligence agencies by reading them. I refrain from visiting those sites. Unless established, it's a risky proposition doing that outside India i would say, even after using ToR or DarkWeb.
Coming to your threats, i think the third is the most important. Also, the mindset of supremacy due to arab/turkic roots that is the main problem

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby Cyrano » 31 Mar 2020 22:04

You're right Arjun Pandit. Pak press in English will only give us a very partial picture of whats going on. I hope there are cells at the Ministry of Home affairs & NIA that are constantly reading and monitoring literature in Urdu & Arabic languages (like they would do in all other languages used in India) to scrute for radical ideas being propagated in India.

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ArjunPandit » 31 Mar 2020 22:40

India has been dealing with this challenge well before it became a problem for anybody else...I'm sure we have experts in that..i don t think we are this bad...

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby KLNMurthy » 01 Apr 2020 21:55

ArjunPandit wrote:
Guddu wrote:
What are you referring to, which speech..link ?

I think it was the reference to the lockdown speech.

Janata curfew speech.

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby KLNMurthy » 01 Apr 2020 22:03

amar_p wrote:Celebrating the distress and disarray of our inherently unstable next door neighbour is unwise IMHO. When the neighbour's house burns, the flames will inevitably lick us to some extent. The best we can hope for in the short terms is a weakened Pak to lay low and struggle with its problems and hopefully solve some of them. We have still enough problems of our own to solve.

Just like a beautiful property is devalued due to a dirty dump next door, a disastrous Pak is not good for India in the long term. With this virus shaking down many established frames of reference, its hard to make any credible long term predictions.

Pakistan is already a dump, breeding robbers and murderers.

What you say would make sense, except that history has shown time and again, Pakis have no interest in improving their property. Each time they get a bit of breathing space & cash infusion (1950s-60s, Afghan wars etc) they use it only to pamper the military classes even more, and ramp up attacks in India. Ramana-al-BRFi coined the term “kabila state.” They are not normal property owners.

There are costs for India when Pakistan goes through bad times and higher costs when it goes through good times. There is no rational course for India other than to engineer the destruction of Pakistan and plan to absorb the costs that entails.

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby KLNMurthy » 01 Apr 2020 22:15

amar_p wrote:
ArjunPandit wrote: what we have to do is reduce them to a size that they can't cause us significant damage..a reduced punjab state with water dpeendency on india is a good option..

Assuming for a moment that this is achievable, how do you propose we can do it, without creating multiple vipers instead of one big snake to fight? :roll:

Intent and clarity of goals is key. I don’t think Pakis are adjusting their goal of breaking India because, at this time, every avenue open to them for this purpose looks closed or extremely costly. Same with communists.

They simply hold on to their goal and wait for opportunities or try to create opportunities. Like with J& K UT-ization or the CAA or now, COVID.

BRF’s is not the majority or popular view in this matter, in fact Indian establishment, including BJP, and maybe even RSS has views similar to yours.

But the long-standing consensus on BRF, arrived at after much discussion, is that there is no alternative for India other than jihad against the kabila state.

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ArjunPandit » 01 Apr 2020 23:28

KLNMurthy wrote:
amar_p wrote:Assuming for a moment that this is achievable, how do you propose we can do it, without creating multiple vipers instead of one big snake to fight? :roll:

Intent and clarity of goals is key. I don’t think Pakis are adjusting their goal of breaking India because, at this time, every avenue open to them for this purpose looks closed or extremely costly. Same with communists.

They simply hold on to their goal and wait for opportunities or try to create opportunities.
Like with J& K UT-ization or the CAA or now, COVID.

BRF’s is not the majority or popular view in this matter, in fact Indian establishment, including BJP, and maybe even RSS has views similar to yours.

But the long-standing consensus on BRF, arrived at after much discussion, is that [u]there is no alternative for India other than jihad against the kabila state/u].


hightlighted the most imp parts..it should be printed in every school and foreign/domestic policy ..we may be a wounded civilization but we havent moved on to heal our wounds and get back to those who have given us wounds...this thread is a start to that ......if you meet jewish fathers..they never forget to tell their kids about holocast..or what they endured throughout the history....

amar let me share that i shared your opinion till 2009-10 period. But after 2008 i saw the Papi's treatment of a weak indian establishment dilly dallying on prosecuting the terrorists....sharm el sheikh..the talks about demilitarizing siachen...

i realized that there is no way..quite often when i searched for an view that is opposite to the mainstream Lutyens delhi...I stumbled upon BRF..i heard lot of grapevine about Lutyens delhi ...a fraction which you might have seen in Accidental PM....independently BRF had the right logic....also just so that you get the notion it's a place for radicals..let me tell you that i have returned after a month long ban for going too radical after the CAA thing. Dont think we countering your views is your censure. BRF has a viewpoint (collective wisdom)...as a living being it can share that viewpoint and the logic/thought process it used to arrive ...take it or leave it your call..
You are new ..you are here that itself is a good thing... as a person who spent few hours everyday of last decade here..seen oldies leaving..new members coming and going...asking same questions...and myself asking stupid questions..its been a great journey..look forward to seeing you around here....

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby Bart S » 02 Apr 2020 00:27

And if anybody is avoiding criticism of Pakistan or schadenfreude out of decency, that is laudable, but unnecessary. Just take a look at Imran's derision of India and Modiji in his speech a couple of days back, and so-called liberals like Najam Sethi's undisguised glee that people especially migrant labour in India were suffering under the lockdown and that will make it obvious that they deserve no such courtesy.

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby KLNMurthy » 02 Apr 2020 05:07

ArjunPandit wrote:...
amar let me share that i shared your opinion till 2009-10 period. But after 2008 i saw the Papi's treatment of a weak indian establishment dilly dallying on prosecuting the terrorists....sharm el sheikh..the talks about demilitarizing siachen...

i realized that there is no way..quite often when i searched for an view that is opposite to the mainstream Lutyens delhi...I stumbled upon BRF..i heard lot of grapevine about Lutyens delhi ...a fraction which you might have seen in Accidental PM....independently BRF had the right logic....also just so that you get the notion it's a place for radicals..let me tell you that i have returned after a month long ban for going too radical after the CAA thing. Dont think we countering your views is your censure. BRF has a viewpoint (collective wisdom)...as a living being it can share that viewpoint and the logic/thought process it used to arrive ...take it or leave it your call..
You are new ..you are here that itself is a good thing... as a person who spent few hours everyday of last decade here..seen oldies leaving..new members coming and going...asking same questions...and myself asking stupid questions..its been a great journey..look forward to seeing you around here....

There may be some who were wise to start with, about Pak, BIF etc., but I have to say I was one of the ones who wasn't wise, but "wised up." In the early '80s, used to dream of a "south asia" super cricket team like West Indies, back in the day. At the end of the '80s, I watched with dismay when Benazir screamed "jag-jag mo-mo han-han", while Kashmir Pandits were being thrown out of their homes (the media never reported the true horrors, but couldn't suppress the fact of the dispossession itself). and with fury when Parliament was attacked. 2008 was the ultimate breaking point. I consider myself Pakistan's enemy, bent on its destruction. May not mean much, but maybe it will once more people travel that route, some sort of momentum will be generated.

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ArjunPandit » 03 Apr 2020 00:07

KLNMurthy wrote:There may be some who were wise to start with, about Pak, BIF etc.,..I consider myself Pakistan's enemy, bent on its destruction. May not mean much, but maybe it will once more people travel that route, some sort of momentum will be generated.

i think this is where our media has failed..thanks to social media there is some awareness...else we would have lived under the thumb and ideas of lutyens delhi...nevertheless..good karm always helps..we need to do the right thing..and the right thing is to eliminate this thorn called pakistan...

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby SBajwa » 03 Apr 2020 03:37

I have been saying this ever since BRF was started (during Initial days of Internet 2000).

There is no P in Arabic., so Pakistan becomes Bakistan in Arabic. Baki in Arabic means "pubic hair" so Bakistan becomes "The land of the pubes"

Total war with Bakis in 1948 (Kashmir) meant few thousand casualties.
Total war with Bakis in 1965 meant may be 100,000 casualties.
Total war with Bakis in 1971 meant around 1-2 million casualties
Total war with Bakis in 1999 meant 200-300 million casualties. (Nukes)
..
..
..
Total war with Bakis now means 600+ million casualties (Nuke, Chemical warfare, Bio warfare, etc)

so the more we delay the final war with Bakis the more casualties we will have.

Another option is to start in home by banning Sunni Islam (Deobandi, Tableeghi and Wahabi first).

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby syam » 03 Apr 2020 09:31

Based on the recent developments, I changed my opinion on pakis.

Pakiland is nothing but political manifestation of the inner rot in Indian society. The two nations theory is correct. The so called minority doesn't listen to the state. My area has some 50+ jamati returners.the district collector had to hold a meeting with local minority leaders to make them get tested.

We read reports about how Sindh Hindus not getting ration in pakiland. How sikhs getting killed in Afg. Only in India, seems like the minority gets to call the shots.

As long as islam exists, the pakis will thrive in whatever form. There is no end game to pakiland.

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby KLNMurthy » 03 Apr 2020 10:03

ArjunPandit wrote:
KLNMurthy wrote:There may be some who were wise to start with, about Pak, BIF etc.,..I consider myself Pakistan's enemy, bent on its destruction. May not mean much, but maybe it will once more people travel that route, some sort of momentum will be generated.

i think this is where our media has failed..thanks to social media there is some awareness...else we would have lived under the thumb and ideas of lutyens delhi...nevertheless..good karm always helps..we need to do the right thing..and the right thing is to eliminate this thorn called pakistan...

Part of the game IMO is being able to make a decent living without having to depend on status / standing in Lutyens. I am guessing that if you take a survey, the so-called Hindu Right would turn out to have a disproportionate representation of engineers, professional managers, doctors and so forth, people with quantifiable and quantitative skills.

There is a lot more than that to this ecosystem that I only understand faintly, of course.

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby vishvak » 03 Apr 2020 11:12

Pakis have Chinese as one of interested parties whilst Chinese dump bad debt also give weapons to Pakis so we got to have few things sorted out
* How to get rid of each interested parties influence, including arabic
* Population control
* Stabilizing Afghanistan ie neighborhood

And so on. Also Pakis will hide that poverty is due to bad debt and such policies imported.

My area has some 50+ jamati returners

The organised part of religion seems to work only one way. So how much is too much since left supporters will not risk in epidemic.
The two nations theory is correct.
..

Not so before invasions which is why cleansing is needed.

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ArjunPandit » 22 Apr 2020 03:18

things are changing fast..just came across this thread from one of our own..

https://twitter.com/CestMoiz/status/1252673233205297156

what this thread brings additionally is the simultaneous weakening of papi 3.5 fathers....
I just read twitter these days..dont post these days...but here are my thoughts....just when i thought this thread will be gone dead and may be archived..I see my wet dreams coming true faster than i expected
1. GB: without great
2. ME: Oil prices, lets see if this is sustained..but given the way things are headed in US, DT may want to get rid of that mess with a strong israel and let other countries fight
3. China: I still have faith that there will some sort of alignment between Russia and US. Russia would not want to support the chinese juggernaut esp with the fact that they left chinese at the peak of cold war, after taking rocket and nuke tech from russia
4. US: cant care less for them for the infidelity. Countries have suffered far worse humiliation after being loyal. Papis have been far worse..with OBL, and many other terrorist attacks.

Late last year i was coming to the conclusion that may be we'll have to settle with PoK or GB, but CoVID and recent developments make me think otherwise now..we will see full demise of papis by 2024

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby kancha » 22 Apr 2020 23:38

ArjunPandit wrote:things are changing fast..just came across this thread from one of our own..

https://twitter.com/CestMoiz/status/1252673233205297156

what this thread brings additionally is the simultaneous weakening of papi 3.5 fathers....
I just read twitter these days..dont post these days...but here are my thoughts....just when i thought this thread will be gone dead and may be archived..I see my wet dreams coming true faster than i expected
1. GB: without great
2. ME: Oil prices, lets see if this is sustained..but given the way things are headed in US, DT may want to get rid of that mess with a strong israel and let other countries fight
3. China: I still have faith that there will some sort of alignment between Russia and US. Russia would not want to support the chinese juggernaut esp with the fact that they left chinese at the peak of cold war, after taking rocket and nuke tech from russia
4. US: cant care less for them for the infidelity. Countries have suffered far worse humiliation after being loyal. Papis have been far worse..with OBL, and many other terrorist attacks.

Late last year i was coming to the conclusion that may be we'll have to settle with PoK or GB, but CoVID and recent developments make me think otherwise now..we will see full demise of papis by 2024


Thanks for the plugging in. The thread has been put in a blog now. Here's the link - Shared some thoughts on the Post COVID-19 World.

Blog Link

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby Gyan » 23 Apr 2020 00:41

Elon Musk & Off shore power turbines will kill off Middle East Oil Economy.

USA has put in almost USD 25 Billion into Tesla alone.

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby vimal » 23 Apr 2020 00:54

Gyan wrote:Elon Musk & Off shore power turbines will kill off Middle East Oil Economy.

USA has put in almost USD 25 Billion into Tesla alone.


Is there enough Lithium in the world to supply enough car batteries?
Who owns Lithium?

Driving Tesla for short haul and temperate weather is fine but try taking it for a long drive and you will realize the shortcomings of battery operated vehicle. Your energy pit stops would be 4-5x longer compared to gas. Turn on AC/Fan/Heater and the range decreases further.

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby mappunni » 23 Apr 2020 03:00

vimal wrote:
Gyan wrote:Elon Musk & Off shore power turbines will kill off Middle East Oil Economy.

USA has put in almost USD 25 Billion into Tesla alone.


Is there enough Lithium in the world to supply enough car batteries?
Who owns Lithium?

Driving Tesla for short-haul and temperate weather is fine but try taking it for a long drive and you will realize the shortcomings of battery-operated vehicles. Your energy pit stops would be 4-5x longer compared to gas. Turn on AC/Fan/Heater and the range decreases further.


Saar, Have a long-range Model 3 and regularly do North to South Texas trips. Have done in blistering hot Texas summers and not so cold Texas winter, yes there is a marginal decrease in range, that is not as bad that it requires pitstop.

Plus there is competitor Nikola which is betting in Hydrogen-Fuel cell tech. And the source for Hydrogen will the once super-secret startup funded by Bill Gates Heliogen, which uses solar power to produce cheap hydrogen.

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby Ramu » 23 Apr 2020 05:18

I think the time is ripe to start salami slicing pok/gb one post at a time.

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby Gyan » 23 Apr 2020 14:11

vimal wrote:
Gyan wrote:Elon Musk & Off shore power turbines will kill off Middle East Oil Economy.

USA has put in almost USD 25 Billion into Tesla alone.


Is there enough Lithium in the world to supply enough car batteries?
Who owns Lithium?

Driving Tesla for short haul and temperate weather is fine but try taking it for a long drive and you will realize the shortcomings of battery operated vehicle. Your energy pit stops would be 4-5x longer compared to gas. Turn on AC/Fan/Heater and the range decreases further.


Have you used Tesla or just giving internet gyan? I have driven Model S in Dubai for few days, never ran out of juice. Tesla Model 3 has max range of 310 miles, assuming only 60% usable its 180 miles ie 300km. How many times in a year we drive more than 300km in a day? Also Extensive real life use has shown that even on super long trips Tesla takes only 10% extra time as recharging is done when driver stops for meals or overnight.

Anyhow, your views alone does not matter as Compund Annual Growth in EVs sale is 25% to 35%. By 2030, Crude Oil prices will be in lot of pain.

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby Rsatchi » 23 Apr 2020 14:30

vimal wrote:
Gyan wrote:Elon Musk & Off shore power turbines will kill off Middle East Oil Economy.

USA has put in almost USD 25 Billion into Tesla alone.


Is there enough Lithium in the world to supply enough car batteries?
Who owns Lithium?

Driving Tesla for short haul and temperate weather is fine but try taking it for a long drive and you will realize the shortcomings of battery operated vehicle. Your energy pit stops would be 4-5x longer compared to gas. Turn on AC/Fan/Heater and the range decreases further.

Sirji,
Chinese manufacture bulk of the Li-ion batteries for the world and either own or control the mines with large Lithium ore deposits!

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ArjunPandit » 23 Apr 2020 14:46

once we are done with tesla..lets turn our eyes to cross badin!

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ArjunPandit » 23 Apr 2020 14:48

Ramu wrote:I think the time is ripe to start salami slicing pok/gb one post at a time.

for that time has been ripe for quite some time...my thought is that we as a nation do not want to do a paki ..we will make quantum jumps..we will not do it like papis do ....we will make take major remaining parts of Kashmir and GB

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby mody » 23 Apr 2020 16:27

Who owns Lithium??
Start looking at countries where many big powers are fighting for influence and control.
The answer: Afghanistan!!
Afghanistan has one the world's largest known lithium reserves.

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby Rsatchi » 23 Apr 2020 16:47

mody wrote:Who owns Lithium??
Start looking at countries where many big powers are fighting for influence and control.
The answer: Afghanistan!!
Afghanistan has one the world's largest known lithium reserves.


Sir per Wiki-Chacha it is Bolivia: The world's top 3 lithium-producing countries from 2016, as reported by the US Geological Survey are Australia, Chile and Argentina.[96] The intersection of Chile, Bolivia, and Argentina make up the region known as the Lithium Triangle. The Lithium Triangle is known for its high quality salt flats including Bolivia's Salar de Uyuni, Chile's Salar de Atacama, and Argentina's Salar de Arizaro. The Lithium Triangle is believed to contain over 75% of existing known lithium reserves.[97] Deposits are found in South America throughout the Andes mountain chain. Chile is the leading producer, followed by Argentina. Both countries recover lithium from brine pools. According to USGS, Bolivia's Uyuni Desert has 5.4 million tonnes of lithium.[98][99] Half the world's known reserves are located in Bolivia along the central eastern slope of the Andes. In 2009, Bolivia negotiated with Japanese, French, and Korean firms to begin extraction

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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ArjunPandit » 23 Apr 2020 18:02

mody wrote:Who owns Lithium??
Start looking at countries where many big powers are fighting for influence and control.
The answer: Afghanistan!!
Afghanistan has one the world's largest known lithium reserves.

ok before bradmins swoop down on us...
if lithium will be the new oil..then iraq definitely needs democracy and freedom... :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

on a serious note Afghanistan wont be stable till today's Pakistan exists..it was only stable and governable when ruled from India..dont want to run a wet dream of that but its essential to have a strong Indian influence..for longer stability of the region
the following things are essential
1. Economic & military stability of India
2. Destruction of pakistan
3. Resumption of meaningful Economic activity in afghanistan
in this sequence. No external force can do it ...only India can do it...i doubt majority of Indians living today are up to even think about this task forget about signing up...till that time..

Manish_P
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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby Manish_P » 23 Apr 2020 18:19

^ Here is an interesting article about Bolivia and the game and the players...

Also do note the difference between the hard rock mineral source (of Afghanistan) and the brine solution source (of Bolivia).

This metal is powering today's technology—at what price?


One early Saturday morning in La Paz, Álvaro García Linera, the vice president of Bolivia, greets me in the spacious salon outside his office overlooking Plaza Murillo. The debonair, silver-haired 56-year-old politician is known in his country as a committed Marxist ideologue. But today he presents himself as a capitalist pitchman.

The pitch in question involves lithium. García Linera speaks of his country’s natural resource in a simultaneously factual and awestruck way. Lithium, essential to our battery-fueled world, is also the key to Bolivia’s future, the vice president assures me. A mere four years hence, he predicts, it will be “the engine of our economy.” All Bolivians will benefit, he continues, “taking them out of poverty, guaranteeing their stability in the middle class, and training them in scientific and technological fields so that they become part of the intelligentsia in the global economy.”

Ramu
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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby Ramu » 24 Apr 2020 02:06

I used to see lots of updates from baba broadcasting corporation about this post got flattened today and that post got halaled yesterday and so on. I found it hard to believe. Then Twitter banned him and proved everything is true.

As a mango Abdul, I have zero knowledge about the location and demography there. Not all their posts could be in a weaker position than ours. There must be atleast few positions worth flattening, clearing and occupying it in a very clean disinfected condition.

For a country that gave us thousands of cuts since its creation and took a sadistic pleasure out of it, we deserve atleast some pleasure back. We can probably stop at 20 or till they go bankrupt, whichever happens first.

When we go for a full bang on POK someday, we are going to inherit lots of pakjabis masquerading as kashmiris. Not good in the long term. Quarantining little by little will not only bankrupt brown pants but their four father's too. Two can play this game.

Mukesh.Kumar
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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby Mukesh.Kumar » 24 Apr 2020 03:18

While working on tricky problems I have often found that myself and my teams miss out key points of weakness or potential opportunities. The problem arises specially when we're working on topics which we're personally involved in. Biases creep in with resulting loss of objectivity. An useful trick I have found over time to do an acid test is to " Solve the reverse problem. "

Sometimes when browsing through this thread I feel that our biases may make us say what we really want to be true rather than what is. And I sincerely don't mean any disrespect to any of the posters. Just that it is an emotive issue for us all.

I think we should instead try to frame the problem in the reverse way.
Topic1: Look at issue as if we were NaPak's and identify how we can secure our fault lines from being exploited by our belief to the east.
Topic2: Which of our 4Fathers is most important for us? Other possible fathers? What can be fault lines in this relationships? How to secure them?
Topic3: If we splinter into parts, how can we have the least damage? What kind of breakup lets us retain our strength most? What can be possible roads to mitigation?
Topic4: What kind of social/ cultural/ religious strange is most dangerous for us? How can we prevent it?

Image

sreerudra
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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby sreerudra » 24 Apr 2020 03:41

What is the possibility that NaPak is already occupied by the red-commies? I think that is what's happening now than KSA or Birt fathers like this thread started. First, they have them sign the deal for the Silk road now they have naval ships in Karachi.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/hisutton/2 ... e198c93b62

I wonder if India has any levers left at this point.

ArjunPandit
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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ArjunPandit » 24 Apr 2020 04:12

Ramu wrote:When we go for a full bang on POK someday, we are going to inherit lots of pakjabis masquerading as kashmiris. Not good in the long term. Quarantining little by little will not only bankrupt brown pants but their four father's too. Two can play this game.

ramuji the thing is that these pakjabis are created at a faster pace than we can kill them...and they are not worried about bankrupting..even if they're bankrupt they'll throw stones and molotov or they'll just stand with knives and sticks and protest victimhood. I mean chiselling is fine..but the final solution has to come through a surgery

ArjunPandit
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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ArjunPandit » 24 Apr 2020 04:14

sreerudra wrote:What is the possibility that NaPak is already occupied by the red-commies? I think that is what's happening now than KSA or Birt fathers like this thread started. First, they have them sign the deal for the Silk road now they have naval ships in Karachi.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/hisutton/2 ... e198c93b62

I wonder if India has any levers left at this point.

depends how do you define being occupied..they are already there in limited no.s as construction workers for this and that water projects...but think about the logistics lines that they will have in case they want to enter the fray..at best expect them to provide weapons to needle india

ArjunPandit
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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby ArjunPandit » 24 Apr 2020 04:18

Mukesh.Kumar wrote:While working on tricky problems I have often found that myself and my teams miss out key points of weakness or potential opportunities. The problem arises specially when we're working on topics which we're personally involved in. Biases creep in with resulting loss of objectivity. An useful trick I have found over time to do an acid test is to " Solve the reverse problem. "

Sometimes when browsing through this thread I feel that our biases may make us say what we really want to be true rather than what is. And I sincerely don't mean any disrespect to any of the posters. Just that it is an emotive issue for us all.

I think we should instead try to frame the problem in the reverse way.
Topic1: Look at issue as if we were NaPak's and identify how we can secure our fault lines from being exploited by our belief to the east.
Topic2: Which of our 4Fathers is most important for us? Other possible fathers? What can be fault lines in this relationships? How to secure them?
Topic3: If we splinter into parts, how can we have the least damage? What kind of breakup lets us retain our strength most? What can be possible roads to mitigation?
Topic4: What kind of social/ cultural/ religious strange is most dangerous for us? How can we prevent it?

Image

mukesh ji, this is what ramana guru says as think like paki..he had many of these thoughts thought through a decade back...

Topic2: Which of our 4Fathers is most important for us? Other possible fathers? What can be fault lines in this relationships? How to secure them?
for pakis anythign that causes damage to india and saves their hind is important ..they will do anything for that..that has been their operating principle
there was a post he made a decade back which talked about indian economy to increase military economic disparity stabiliyt of afghanistan and containment of china, and pushing of insurgencies in pakistan..

sreerudra
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Re: Endgame of NaPakistan: How and what afterwards

Postby sreerudra » 24 Apr 2020 04:54

ArjunPandit wrote:
sreerudra wrote:What is the possibility that NaPak is already occupied by the red-commies? I think that is what's happening now than KSA or Birt fathers like this thread started. First, they have them sign the deal for the Silk road now they have naval ships in Karachi.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/hisutton/2 ... e198c93b62

I wonder if India has any levers left at this point.

depends how do you define being occupied..they are already there in limited no.s as construction workers for this and that water projects...but think about the logistics lines that they will have in case they want to enter the fray..at best expect them to provide weapons to needle india


Arjun ji, They are already there. Haven't you heard that Red Army has been seen in PoK? If NaPak goes down it will try its best to take as much India as possible with it, and Chinese like it as it slows down India.


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