2019 General Elections News and Discussion

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Primus
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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Primus » 11 May 2019 04:03

eklavya wrote:
Suraj wrote:IMHO, Hinduphobia has to be defined, its definition defended and its presence immediately countered with accusations of hate speech, by us. What defines hate speech against Hindus cannot be owned by the other side, at all, ever. I've already noted some prefacing their attacks saying 'attacking RSS/someone is not attack on Hinduism', so that it gives them a free pass to do so.

Hindus need to own what defines Hinduphobia, and Hindus themselves need to assert the presence of Hinduphobia, refusing the other side the authority to define the term.


Are you suggesting that this is done through legal means e.g. laws that criminalise criticism of RSS?


There are already laws existing in India that penalize criticism of other religions and faiths. Only problem is it applies to everyone but Hindu culture and religion. Read Chandmal Chopra's 'The Calcutta Quran Petition' to see how this plays out in Indian courts.

The RSS may not be an overtly Hindu organization but its roots are Dharmic and as such it becomes a whipping boy for Hinduism and this must be stopped. The biggest problem with the laws in India are that they are unequally applied to the society as a whole with the result that Hindus end up being the victims of abuse more often than not. Everyone seems to be happy with this situation and this is what needs to change. It will not change until the Hindus themselves wake up and realize that they have become second class citizens in their own lands.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Karan M » 11 May 2019 04:20

Primus

I think you are completely missing the point. Hindus visiting abroad may often come across as having speech issues, or "bumbling idiots" as you note, but in their defence they are speaking in their 3rd or even 4th language. Can you tell me how many westerners know more than 1-2 languages? Indians make do with what they have.

Second, its completely unfair or even ridiculous for anyone to spend all their time defending themselves or acting as defenders of their faith, in fact the very thing proves the point the game is rigged against them. Do Americans visiting India have to spend all their time justifying Iraq or Belgians visiting us, speak apologetically about the Congo?

The issue is not with Indians, its with folks who are bigoted against them, period.
Who has the time or opportunity to sit and pontificate in length on India?

Business visitors are under extra stress to be cordial to their hosts, have to suck some real stupid shit for the sake of "portraying a good persona" and on top of it, if they are being billed as consultants or sales folks, have to go out of their way to put up with stupid behavior from the side of the hosts as well.

Guys who are living abroad can make the effort to play up their culture, speak away on random topics etc. You are given that leeway as you are now domestic (and treated with some fairness, to whatever degree).

That's not the case for most business related interactions and short trips.

Surrounded by colleagues, senior management folks, some random colleague or customer makes some really bigoted comments against India. You have two options here. Play the stereotypical Indian nationalist and set him to rights, and bore the entire table and embarrass your host. Its worse if many tacitly agree with him, which caused this moron to vent it out loud. Suck it up, and make a comment disagreeing politely.

Most Hindus/Indians do the latter, its not because they are bumbling idiots, its that they very well understand how the circumstances are, and how the power differential is stacked up against them.

They are also on tenterhooks because folks already prejudiced against them will interpret even simple actions in the worst possible light or seek to use their power differential to the max.

The answer to this is to not sit & educate every Indian on how to counter propaganda, but plain and simple attack the sources of propaganda themselves.

One two short term discussions are not going to change anyone's POV (in fact research shows that a view strongly held will be buttressed, if somebody counters with something exactly opposite) but to ensure the steady pipeline of atrocity literature being pushed out from India/abroad is stopped or countered effectively.


Primus wrote:
Karan M wrote:In our case, they are attacking the very bedrock of the Indian's self belief, his faith & implying that by supporting anyone remotely associated with their faith, they are evil.

This perception has deliberately been mainstreamed. Indian Hindu males in particular, are considered primitive, sexually depraved, and out to either molest or chase white women. Just google for the standard meme on Indians chasing b*bs and v*gene.

If anyone attempts to counter this, a NYT or WaPo article will be waved to imply, that the above is justifiable.

We ignore all this to our peril. We have been too chalta hain, with these vipers for far too long.


We are all Ambassadors for our race, our faith and our culture, no matter where we go and whether we want to be or not. Any brown person is considered FOB until he/she starts speaking at which point the accent, if local guarantees instant acceptance. Even in my case - have not been able to put on the local accent ever - I find I have no issues as long as I am my normal self.

The problem of Hinduism getting a bad rap is nothing new, have been hearing it for over 30 yrs - all the usual snake-charmer, rat-worshipper, cows on the streets crap. People often ask me in a serious tone when I tell them I am a Hindu and I do not eat beef - is it true that you worship cows in India? I respond equally seriously - no we do not worship them but we do love them, much like you love your cats and dogs. How would you feel if somebody was serving cat or dog meat here at this table? That shuts them up immediately.

In a world where democracy is celebrated (as it supposedly is in the West), you do have to stand up for what you believe in. 'Jo dar gaya, samjho mar gaya' - (he who is afraid is as good as dead) It is up to us to be proud Hindus and proud Indians, "apni chai mein khud hi shakkar milani padti hai" - (you need to sweeten your tea yourself). I lose no opportunity to correct people of their misconceptions both at work and at home - family or friends. You have to have the right tools to fight back with. Too many Hindus become sheepish and defensive when faced with this kind of bull$hit. The right approach is to educate yourself both about your own faith and culture and their own. A simple question to a Catholic would be ' is it true that you really eat Christ's body and drink his blood every Sunday"? And if he says yes, the trap is sprung, with 'so you really believe a piece of bread is the body of Christ in actuality?" (you can then discuss the 'Doctrine of Transubstantiation'). If he wants to take it further, you can ask him about the Gospel of John, 6:53 where Jesus urges his followers to eat his body and drink his blood and then say - how is this different from the cannibals of Papua New-Guinea who developed CJD from eating their ancestors' brains and whom you consider so inferior?

All this is terribly OT for this thread, and I beg the indulgence of the mods, but the whole point of this exercise is that we need to educate ourselves not only about us but also about the opposition, only then can you discuss or argue your case with conviction. Else you come across as a bumbling idiot which unfortunately is how most Hindus abroad appear.

An example would serve well here:

I have a close friend whose wife is English, both his sons have been brought up 'Janeyudhari Brahmins'. The boys both wear the holy thread, do not eat beef and proudly proclaim they are Hindu - helps to have an American accent and white skin of course - but hey, they are well respected and more importantly, well-liked by their local Catholic and Jewish friends. They do puja regularly at home and the neighbors (non-Hindu) come and sit and take prasad together.

So it is entirely up to us how we want to tell this story. And how we want our children to spread it.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby KLNMurthy » 11 May 2019 04:23

Primus wrote:
CRamS wrote:Guys, please don't jump all over me. I am not making any equivalences, expect that those who innocents ones who got killed and their kith and kin need justice, thats all. Anyway, I completely understand that the topic of relevance is 194 Sikh genocide since Congoons pose as champions of minority rights, and so no need to being in any other riot as a way of any equivalence to let Congoons off the hook. I am speaking purely in moralistic and spiritual terms, but lets discuss this on another day.


Please cut CRS Ji some slack. His heart is in the right place I believe. He is one of those who must put his own on a pedestal and start to wonder if they are indeed not divine beings and simply human like himself. We all tend to do this with our parents when we are very young, believing that they are infallible, invulnerable, paragons of virtue and honesty.

The same with so many of us Hindus. We just cannot accept anything less than perfection in our leaders and so easily believe the lies and allegations flung their way by the opposition. In this context it is a bit sad that despite so much evidence against Modi having the slightest blemish on his handling of the 2002 riots, we start having doubts the moment the issue is mentioned. So many of us still believe that Modi was indeed guilty of retribution against the muslims, but that it is a good thing that he was.

This is no different from the earlier post by Nikhil T where he is quick to start feeling bad that perhaps this one time Modi indeed lied to the public and that makes him 'not such a saint any more'. We do not have the tenacity of purpose and dedication that makes the Congoon followers stick to their leaders even when they know the fellows are corrupt to the core.

This is war folks, all is fair. It is a question of survival of Dharma, just do what it takes. And have a little more of it, 'ye of little faith'.


Propaganda is a very powerful and effective thing. Time and again Modi reminds in interviews that the 2002 riots were intensely investigated by a Center that was hostile to him, including an unprecedented 9-hour interrogation of the chief minister of a state by a police officer. And a good many people received prison sentences.

If this is not justice to the victims (given that nothing remotely comparable was done for the '84 victims) then the only thing left to do is to join those who unilaterally pronounced Modi guilty, and either just hang Modi for the crime of just being who he is, or maybe, as the late Praful Bidwai proposed in a Paki paper, wait till he is out of office and bundle him off to the ICJ in The Hague to be tried and made to die in a foreign prison.

This is repetitive I know, but, as we can see, the power of Thr Big Lie is great, and we need to remind ourselves of the facts over and over.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Karan M » 11 May 2019 04:27

Primus wrote:
eklavya wrote:
Are you suggesting that this is done through legal means e.g. laws that criminalise criticism of RSS?


There are already laws existing in India that penalize criticism of other religions and faiths. Only problem is it applies to everyone but Hindu culture and religion. Read Chandmal Chopra's 'The Calcutta Quran Petition' to see how this plays out in Indian courts.

The RSS may not be an overtly Hindu organization but its roots are Dharmic and as such it becomes a whipping boy for Hinduism and this must be stopped. The biggest problem with the laws in India are that they are unequally applied to the society as a whole with the result that Hindus end up being the victims of abuse more often than not. Everyone seems to be happy with this situation and this is what needs to change. It will not change until the Hindus themselves wake up and realize that they have become second class citizens in their own lands.


This is again a non sequitur. How many Hindus woke up and realized anything regarding what was written into the constitution or this law or that law? Answer, literally none vis a vis the overall population numbers.

These laws, these rules are written by those who push aggressively for them. In many cases a vocal, tiny, but powerful minority of activists and committed ideologues who ensure their POV gets precedence. In our case, even that's been missing.

The rest of the sheep, i.e. populace follow suit. In fact, once the tipping point i.e. 10% is reached, it becomes graven in stone.
http://freakonomics.com/2011/07/28/mino ... -you-need/

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Suraj » 11 May 2019 04:43

Once again I agree. This cannot be done by the citizenry at large being enlightened and proud, because really the issue is something else - a control of the narrative against a religion, AND the control of the terms of what constitutes hate speech against that religion.

Now, freedom of speech enables anyone to state what they desire to state . I agree with and support freedom of speech. However, freedom of speech is not the freedom from the consequences of the actions you perform through your speech. In other words, no entity has control over both their freedom of speech, and the definition of what constitutes the consequences of your acts. Those will be owned by separate parties.

This is the essence of checks and balances in society. For example, the RSS or VHP can articulately and define what is political Hindutva, since they themselves are the entity defining and propagating it. It must be written in clear language that is easily accessible, at places owned by them, with the help of attorneys. Similarly, their mission and role in society is for them to define in similar clear, legally vetted langugage. Any press entity is obligated to diligently utilize the definition. They cannot editorialize or sensationalize the definition, without risking defamation suits for deliberate mischaracterization, propagation of hatred, and libel.

They're welcome to offer a competent critique of the shortcoming or drawbacks of political Hindutva or the activities of the entity (e.g. RSS) as defined by the entity that created and espoused it as policy. That is a good thing - it offers competent feedback that can be utilized. What they do not get to do, is make up some random definition of Hindutva or of what the RSS is, and use that to beat the political entity on the head with essentially total impunity as is the case now.

This distinction is very important. The definition of something like political Hindutva is essentially intellectual property of the creating entity. They are entitled to define it, to defend it and to prosecute its misuse and mischaracterization. Anyone's welcome to offer a well thought out criticism of something as defined by the political entity, but they are not entitled to redefine it or basically mangle it beyond recognition, to suit their argument. Well, they can, but there will be consequences to be paid.

I am totally fine with any western agency writing whatever they want about Hindutva, RSS etc. The definition of hate speech, and the ability to prosecute it, will rest in other hands. To the extent we articulately control the prosecution of hate speech against Hinduism in all its forms, it serves as a check against the balance of freedom offered to say it, by any other party.

To do all this requires a competent legal and professional organization that constantly monitors for hate speech against Hinduism, constructs legal briefs on the basis of mischaracterization, and files suit, ideally both in India and the foreign country in question where the article is from an outside source. It's not something for the mango yindu to do because it's not about them. It has to be built upon legal language that can and will be enforced by organizations.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Karan M » 11 May 2019 05:09

^+100
Yes, exactly. Misrepresent and make bigoted statements against the faith, or organization and be held to account for your misrepresentation and bigotry.
And then all of them get tracked down and held to account. Each crook is citing each other, and creating a deliberate ecosystem of cross referenced lies.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby sanjaykumar » 11 May 2019 05:11

Hinduism is largely amorphous and its meaning perhaps evanescent. This is because it is decentralised albeit the formalism of the Vedas. As such it is trivial to assault Hinduism because there are a thousand Hinduisms. Assaults are indefensible.

However so are the doctrines and practices of the militant monotheisms. No harm at all in pointing out the mote in the other fellow’s eye.

Hinduism at the least is reasonably free of odious hypocrisy. For those who choose, it offers atheism as well as bhakti and what the desert creeds dare not accept, personal responsibility as in karma or Vedanta.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Suraj » 11 May 2019 05:24

The parameters of this aren't very different from mischaracterizing a corporate entity. Let's say we're talking about Reliance Industries. Their website states that they are a diversified conglomerate involved in oil and gas, refining, etc etc. A press article can criticize them in the context of something they're doing. For example, it can criticize the lack of clean or carbon neutral technologies, or some other things, but all these are to be framed in the context of what Reliance says they do. They own what they are and do, not someone else.

What the press cannot do is to state "Reliance is a collection of Marwari shysters sucking the country dry and polluting it by importing oil, burning it in millions of cars and making people breathe it" . Or something like that. No one can do that because they'll be drowned in legal proceedings right away.

But this is essentially how language about Hindutva , RSS etc work. Make up some nonsense, have someone else quote it, and create a definition themselves, along with riders that the definition is 'free speech' and is 'not hate speech', etc. Laughably, a recent article even attempts to explain what a shakha is, and doesn't get it right .

Without control of the message and the definition of an entity, they cannot protect themselves. Constructing the ability to define the message and prosecute its misuse is fundamental to responding to this problem.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Suraj » 11 May 2019 05:27

sanjaykumar wrote:Hinduism is largely amorphous and its meaning perhaps evanescent. This is because it is decentralised albeit the formalism of the Vedas. As such it is trivial to assault Hinduism because there are a thousand Hinduisms. Assaults are indefensible.

There is a very good reason why I did not use Hinduism but Hindutva. Essentially all criticism of the religion also brings in the organizations involved, and Hindutva in general. By prosecuting all mischaracterizations of the organizations, their policy (Hindutva) and their self-described role and purview of activities, it drastically constrains what you can actually criticize, without specifically quoting them, or saying something that'll get them in legal trouble.

They can carefully skirt it all and just resort to namecalling various Hindu beliefs. The same can be offered about them, e.g. as Primus stated about what is essentially ritual cannibalism in Catholicism.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Primus » 11 May 2019 05:28

Karan M wrote:Primus

I think you are completely missing the point. Hindus visiting abroad may often come across as having speech issues, or "bumbling idiots" as you note, but in their defence they are speaking in their 3rd or even 4th language. Can you tell me how many westerners know more than 1-2 languages? Indians make do with what they have.

Second, its completely unfair or even ridiculous for anyone to spend all their time defending themselves or acting as defenders of their faith, in fact the very thing proves the point the game is rigged against them. Do Americans visiting India have to spend all their time justifying Iraq or Belgians visiting us, speak apologetically about the Congo?

The issue is not with Indians, its with folks who are bigoted against them, period.
Who has the time or opportunity to sit and pontificate in length on India?


I agree with most of what you say, but I think you may have missed the point I was making. Yes, the problem is with those who are bigoted and you cannot win them to your side by legislation in far away India. My main thrust was in educating those Indians who have chosen to make their home in the West and not the visitor who comes as a tourist or on a business trip. My intention was never to denigrate them as bumbling idiots. Over the past many years I have seen too many Indians who have spent even longer living here than I have come across as totally clueless about Dharma and simply do not know how to respond to the allegations of cow-worshipping etc. Their children are even worse and many seek refuge in ignorance - oh, I don't know, I am not religious. If you ask an average Hindu in America what Hinduism is, their standard answer is 'it's a way of life', they cannot say much more than that. It is these people who need to stand up and fight for their faith.

My issue is not as I said with visitors from India who have the dice loaded against them in many ways, but with those who have 'settled' here. So many will keep the Indian names their children were born with in India but pronounce them even at home in an anglicized manner, the kids become absolutely confused. They do pujas at home without really teaching the children the meaning of anything. Believe me, when you are the only child in class with a funny name and a funny God you pray to, when you lack the enormous backing of the community like the Jews do, your parents are the only ones who can help keep the faith. It requires patience, courage, persistence in the face of all the negativity surrounding Hinduism to be able to stand up to it. That is where having knowledge about your side and the other side is important.

Yes, defining Hinduphobia is essential, but so is understanding of the arguments of the other side. All the Abrahaminic religions are nothing but a house of cards, but you need to know where the foundation is weakest.

As India grows stronger, so does its appeal. Those of us who have made our homes outside the pitrubhumi owe it to ourselves and our future generations to dispel the myths and misconceptions surrounding Dharma. This cannot be done simply by fighting for just laws, it has to be done by educating ourselves and others. You cannot change somebody's beliefs about their faiths, but you sure can tell them - gently perhaps - that Hindus are not rapists and murderers, rather quite the opposite.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Karan M » 11 May 2019 05:37

Understood. We are I guess speaking about different demographics. Agree with you guys abroad can do so much more (though it is unfair to have them to do the heavy lifting). But they have the cards to play a much better game.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Primus » 11 May 2019 05:44

Suraj Ji, excellent points, but once again applicable to the Indian populace and Indian constitution. You cannot legislate outside India how you are going to define Hindutva. However, there are orgs in the US, like the ADL for the Jews who are involved in fighting for the rights of Hindus, not very powerful yet, but it's a start. HAF is one such group, I urge those of you who live here to do your part.

https://www.hafsite.org/

The difficulty is in having people in power understand that they cannot get away with insulting Hinduism. The only language politicians understand is that of votes which really means money and influence. The Hindus abroad need to organize themselves better and prevent anybody from making anti-Hindu remarks or social commentary. The Muslims have this power simply from the ability to kill anybody who insults them, the Christians have the numbers on their side and the Jews, a minority like us, have financial clout. A simple ad for a vodka like 'Christmas quality, Hanukkah pricing' gets banned in New York because the Jews got pi$$ed off. This is the kind of influence we need to be able to exert. Israel has hardly any military or economic might in the world, yet it dictates ME policy because of the Jewish lobby and influence in the US. Hindus can accomplish the same if we pull together, no amount of legislation on Hindutva and hate-speech in India can achieve this.

Our local chapters like Ekal are a small step in this direction. I can tell you, the recent events in India like Pulwama and subsequently Balakot have lit the fires under many a sleepy Hindu family here. At the last 'support the BJP' meeting here the house was full. Modi's influence extends far beyond the shores of India. Even more important for us Hindus to keep the torch burning in our Karmabhumi.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Karan M » 11 May 2019 05:49

I sometimes wonder whether the torch will only remain burning abroad while the house gets burnt down in India and only ashes remain. I hope you guys take on the NYT, Economist types domestically because your voices count for more, being local and can't be dismissed that of mere bigots from some far off place.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby sanjaykumar » 11 May 2019 05:49

Well the least that can be said about worshipping cows is that the cow is real. Perhaps not too many deities can be so characterised.


Hindus are as ignorant of their beliefs as are Christians of theirs. It is not that they are stupid, just wilfully illiterate.


Yes as India grows stronger so does its appeal. From being yellow monkeys the Japanese went to being aped by the West, all in a space of forty years.

Please do consider why Christians or Muslims do not get into testicular torsion about Japanese idolatry, pantheism, polytheism,phallus veneration. Of course they would be jeered off the islands. Consider why the Japanese today enumerate a lower percentage of Christians than 100 years ago. I have full anticipation that India and also China will follow this path, only they are about 50 years behind. What will a super power India with a per capita GDP of even $15,000 mean for the citadel of the faith next door? There is only a limited number of times one can say aatmi taakat to one's self.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Karan M » 11 May 2019 05:53

The wests aim is as India grows stronger its full of quasi-westerners who ape them.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Suraj » 11 May 2019 05:54

Primus wrote:Yes, defining Hinduphobia is essential, but so is understanding of the arguments of the other side. All the Abrahaminic religions are nothing but a house of cards, but you need to know where the foundation is weakest.

I agree in general but have a problem with the above. It is specifically this - your description offers the ready acceptance that they're speaking in good faith (pun not necessarily intended) and an intelligent conversation can be had, beginning with the context of discussing a depiction of Hinduism that's woefully out of touch with reality, in written or spoken form.

I do not agree with that. Someone who's already come up with such statements, is first required to recognize and repudiate their words . My response will be to start out by attacking their faith in kind, then when they defend, compel them to accept and acknowledge that they really do not know about Hinduism enough to make the claims they did.

Then, having 'cleaned the slate', a real conversation can be had. This real conversation cannot, and should never be on the table as a response to a poor starting position. First of all, the position must be attacked with all the hypocrisies of their own faith, and having been made to acknowledge their ignorance and repudiate their prior statement, then a conversation can optionally be had from an equal power dynamic.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Manish_Sharma » 11 May 2019 05:55

Karan M wrote:The RWers wont get a chance in most of these establishments. Ironically, both the western RW and LW dislike us.
....


Karan if you read "How I became Hindu" by Late Shri Sita Ram Goel, you find during 40s 50s & 60s all American charities all Americans without exception were leftist lovers and Hindu haters... this at the time of death-struggle-with-communism .... Hindus are always top on hate list of Western Europe, USA

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby sanjaykumar » 11 May 2019 06:02

I'm not even sure if it is hate. One billion souls to harvested for the king would put Xtianity in an unassailable position. From cannon fodder against Islam to intellectual horsepower and often excellent physicians, it would be a coup for the West. Or so goes the thinking. However, more mature societies such as Britain and Canada are probably developing the nasty traits of Hinduism that promote laissez faire and sang froid.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Suraj » 11 May 2019 06:06

sanjaykumar wrote:I'm not even sure if it is hate. One billion souls to harvested for the king would put Xtianity in an unassailable position. From cannon fodder against Islam to intellectual horsepower and often excellent physicians, it would be a coup for the West. Or so goes the thinking. However, more mature societies such as Britain and Canada are probably developing the nasty traits of Hinduism that promote laissez faire and sang froid.

That's exactly why I stated that the initial response must be one attacking them in kind. They don't have to repudiate it - the 'real conversation' on equal terms only applies to those who ultimately seek it. Those who are simply out to denigrate Hinduism should never receive a defense or apology of Hinduism - the ball should be kicked to their side of the field immediately.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby sanjaykumar » 11 May 2019 06:18

Again it is trivial to attack the desert monotheisms, just read their books, of which the vast majority of believers are innocent. It is all there. From the polytheism of the trinity to all the self-contradictions and the murders. The west with its more advanced common education and free thinking recent history is already receptive to some of these concepts. Vedanta, yoga, Buddhism are much in evidence as cultural parameters in educated Xtian and Jewish households. The education certainly makes them more receptive to the other. This is something one must acknowledge and appreciate in the West.

As I have stated before there were two historical developments that ushered in the age of enlightenment, both to do with western Europe's sea voyages. Trade and unavoidable contact with non-Xtians humanised the latter, and the finding that humanity had other gods. Western Europe grew wealthy and more liberal while Eastern Europe which was more domestic had to console itself with their unshakeable faith.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby darshan » 11 May 2019 06:22



Another good summary of RaGa vacation.

Hopefully mods would move last conversation about Hindus for archival purpose in a proper thread so it doesn't get forgotten.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby UlanBatori » 11 May 2019 06:29

Wonder if RaGa considered vacationing on the PNS "Ghazni" in Vishakapattinam harbor using his scuba gear.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby UlanBatori » 11 May 2019 06:31

MP Neemuch satta bazaar
247-250 BJP, 77-79 INC

Updated:May 10, 2019, 6:20 PM IST

According to the latest available information, Madhya Pradesh’s Neemuch satta bazaar puts the Lok Sabha seat tally at 247-250 for BJP and 77-79 for Congress. Rajasthan’s Phalodi satta bazaar, which has a long history of predicting elections right, puts the figures at 240-245 for BJP with the collective NDA total going up to 320-325.

The Phalodi satta bazaar predicts BJP winning 21-22 seats in Rajasthan alone, with Congress managing a mere three-four Lok Sabha seats.

The mood at the Surat satta market is not much different which puts the figures at 246-248 in favour of BJP and with Congress coming at a distant second with 78-80 seats. BJP according to the market sources, could win in 22-23 of the 26 Lok Sabha seats in Gujarat.

Meanwhile, an infographic attributed to News18 Network doing the rounds on social media and instant messaging platforms that show betting market figures is fake and wrongly attributed to the News18 Network. News18 has not produced any such infographic. The fake infographic in question also deviates a lot from the style and design that News18 channels and websites generally use.

542 seats across 36 states and Union Territories are voting to elect the 17th Lok Sabha. Polls in one seat, Vellore in Tamil Nadu, has been countermanded. 424 seats have already voted in the first five phases of polling with 118 seats more to go for the sixth and the seventh phases. Counting of votes will take place on May 23, 2019.

Karan M
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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Karan M » 11 May 2019 06:43

Genius.

Image

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Karan M » 11 May 2019 06:48

Here i was youtubing vids on proper, dhoti shibber.. and there you go!


UlanBatori wrote:MP Neemuch satta bazaar
247-250 BJP, 77-79 INC

Updated:May 10, 2019, 6:20 PM IST

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby sudarshan » 11 May 2019 06:56

Karan M wrote:Genius.


Does he still remember to say "chowkidar chor hai?" This is what is needed - keeping these creeps on the defensive and reactive, rather than running around playing offense.

Around the time when the Delhi rapes happened and the western press was gleefully running stories of "Indian men are all serial rapists," there was an Indian student who applied to a German university, who got rejected by the (female) German professor on the grounds that the professor was concerned for the safety of the female students on the campus. I'm not making this up, some of you here would even remember this occurrence.

* So - wait for some such lost opportunity, and then sue one of the leading western media houses in India. "Your story on XXX/ YYY in India directly cost me this opportunity. Your story was blatantly false, and I can and will prove it in court. I seek $XXX Millions from you as compensation for the opportunity which your lies cost me."

* This lawsuit should occur in an Indian court, preferably high court, in a state like Kerala or Bengal.

* Garner as much visibility as possible, make it a high-profile case.

* If the case is won, well and good. Sets a precedent.

* If the case is lost - still not so bad. That's why select a Kerala or Bengal court. Tarnish by association. Any judgment by judges who are known to be biased and Hindu-phobic, automatically tarnishes the image of the media house in the eyes of ordinary Indians.

* If case is lost - appeal in Supreme Court (of India).

* If the case is won in the SC, well and good. Even stronger precedent.

* If the case is lost in the SC - well, so what? This is the same Hindu-phobic SC which ruled on Jallikattu, Sabarimala, Gokulashtami celebrations, Deepavali celebrations. Once more, tarnish the image of the media house in the eyes of ordinary Indians.

* Rinse, repeat as often as necessary. Make the case among aam Indians that western houses peddle lies and impose massive opportunity costs on struggling Indians. Basically, scream victimization.

* In Massa, there are lawyers who handle specific cases, such as car crashes, medical malpractice, etc. "There's never a fee unless we get money for you!" Build an ecosystem of Indic lawyers who are willing to prosecute lost opportunities due to Hindu-phobic coverage in the west. "There's never a fee unless we get moolah for you!"

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby UlanBatori » 11 May 2019 07:01

That's what UBCN is saying:
Even Satta Bazaar is willing to put their money on 320+ for NDA
, and here proper Nationalists are VIP-shivering and unwilling to project 544. The last one is Shri Raoul Gandy, Leader of The Opposition (LOO) and Member - sure winner - from Wynad, Kerala).
I am trying to imagine the LOO standing up and giving impassioned speeches in the Lok Sabha, to wild enthusiasm, happy laughter. Cartoonist Houristan.
Last edited by UlanBatori on 11 May 2019 07:16, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby disha » 11 May 2019 07:07

To me this is where VHP and other Indic religion based assorted organizations failed and are constantly failing miserably. They do not know and do not care of building their own narrative and actually adopt the narratives built for them by others.

Where is the VHP ideological wing that actually comes out and supports actively with funding?

For example, it can pick up 1000 high school students in teams of 5 and then send them all over to India to study temple design and architecture from abroad!

Why cannot it work with top-tier universities across the world and offer courses (computer based or remote courses) that can be part of any university's humanities department portfolio? It does not even have to go to the extent of "across the world", it can do it within India. Why does not it come back with educational degrees - "MPhil" for example in "Vedic Studies". Sponsor some journos who can be given some stipend to do the courses.

===
On this forum itself, we are talking about "Left Liberal", assuming that "Left are Liberal". That is not the case. They the ultra-leftists of the marxist/maoist kind just appropriated the "Liberal" surname for themselves just like the Nehru-Maino dynasty appropriated the Gandhi surname.

Hence when we talk about 'leftists', we are in essence talking about 'marxist/maoists/leninist and stalinist'. Other word for them is Chavezistas.

I will be laughed out here when I say "Narendra Modi is a Hindu Nationalist Left Liberal". No there is no dichotomy (or trichotomy) in that labelling (the act of labeling IMO itself is wrong).

However his actions do prove that Modi is 'left' (JAM/Ujwala/Ujala/...) and is 'liberal' (bear all media assaults and still not be vindictive for eg.) and is definitely a Hindu (recites extempore on Ma Ganga's Ghat) and is a Nationalist.

So why do we allow the marxists/leninists/maoists to then walk away with 'Left Liberal' tag? They are neither 'left' leaning and neither are they liberal. For example the #AapTurd Marxist/Leninist Marlena wants the voters to vote any Gunda (goon) as long as Modi is stopped. For them power by any means is the goal.

Currently the #mediapimps have been severely discredited. In this case it was due to availability of technology and micro-blogging sites that continuously does chaddi-utaro (pull down the pants) of holier-than-thou #mediapimps. What twitter does banning/shadow-banning handles is no different from what Maoists do.

Point is that we are ourselves are doing nothing and ourselves to blame when we allow the marxist/leninist/stalinists/maoists/chavezistas/cortezistas to get away when they label themselves as "Left Liberal". In fact, we should call out their BS and tell them that they are not "left liberal" but just a bunch of chavezistas and cortezistas without any understanding and are into cult thinking ...

===

It will take a couple of decades to dismantle the control the maoists and stalinists have on the Indian education system. It is not going to be easy. But before we talk about "fixing the education system", we need to fix ourselves. That is we need to decolonize and take back the initiative from the marxists-leninists like Marlenas'

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Primus » 11 May 2019 07:23

Suraj wrote:
Primus wrote:Yes, defining Hinduphobia is essential, but so is understanding of the arguments of the other side. All the Abrahaminic religions are nothing but a house of cards, but you need to know where the foundation is weakest.

I agree in general but have a problem with the above. It is specifically this - your description offers the ready acceptance that they're speaking in good faith (pun not necessarily intended) and an intelligent conversation can be had, beginning with the context of discussing a depiction of Hinduism that's woefully out of touch with reality, in written or spoken form.

I do not agree with that. Someone who's already come up with such statements, is first required to recognize and repudiate their words . My response will be to start out by attacking their faith in kind, then when they defend, compel them to accept and acknowledge that they really do not know about Hinduism enough to make the claims they did.

Then, having 'cleaned the slate', a real conversation can be had. This real conversation cannot, and should never be on the table as a response to a poor starting position. First of all, the position must be attacked with all the hypocrisies of their own faith, and having been made to acknowledge their ignorance and repudiate their prior statement, then a conversation can optionally be had from an equal power dynamic.


I agree, you cannot have a discussion with anyone who is not willing to listen. However, in my experience most people who ask questions are genuinely interested. There is increasing exposure to India in all media, including the news. Negative portrayals of India prompt greater curiosity and people really want to know. Condescension is now a thing of the past.

In daily life too there are plenty of opportunities. For example, during surgical procedures you spend all day with 1-2 people assisting you in the room, you discuss everything under the sun, including religion. I have 'educated' so many work colleagues on the Indian culture, Hinduism, Islam, eating beef or not, naming conventions in Hinduism etc. Most people are receptive and happy to learn that the world though different is not necessarily weird.

In social gatherings too you can be open with people without getting 'in your face', often people will ask you about your background and the conversation leads to India and sometimes Hinduism. For example if I say sorry I do not eat beef, people sometimes ask why and I say I am a Hindu and so on. Usually the conversation is polite and people are understanding. It is very important in all such interactions to not come across as a shrill activist and not wear your faith on your sleeve. But you can still get your point across.

There is a palpable acceptance of Indians in American society especially at high levels. I was at a top cardiac center recently, this place performs one of the highest number of cases in the US and over half the Attendings in the cath lab are Hindus, including the two top honchos. That is, 12 out of 23, which is saying something.

What is needed now is the ability to harness this influence and translate it into pride in the faith.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Kashi » 11 May 2019 07:27

sanjaykumar wrote:Please do consider why Christians or Muslims do not get into testicular torsion about Japanese idolatry, pantheism, polytheism,phallus veneration. Of course they would be jeered off the islands.


You'll be surprised that it's actually quite the opposite, both within and outside Japan.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 11 May 2019 07:39

1st gen PIO is ok, they were born and brought up in india and know the real picture.

the hinduphobic campaigns will be more tough on 2nd+ gen PIOs. some will say thoo thoo and try to be as much gora as possible incl in faith. textbooks we know are biased...

actually my cousin(who only did MS and settled there) already did - married gori, walks talks and eats like a gora. I am sure he makes excuses to his colleagues for the savage killer on the PMs chair here. his shallow intellectual reach outside of work domain is evident in his SM posts.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 11 May 2019 07:41

in latest congi foot in mouth disease (day when RG asks Pitroda to apologize), spokesman Anand sharma mocks the PM for not having any family to holiday on INS Viraat with.

PM will pick up on this in his last round of rallies

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 11 May 2019 07:50

प्रदोष
@Prashodha
10h10 hours ago
More
Lutyen Son of the elite Paaki man who was killed by mohammedan nutcase does a political hitjob on a Hindu man who came from the masses. And yes, his mother's community was butchered by the political party he is batting. Truly #WTF

:rotfl:

Badari


@kgbadariprasad
15h15 hours ago
More
Replying to @rahulroushan
The question should have been.. can Pak endure another 5 years of Modi :twisted:

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby banrjeer » 11 May 2019 07:51

The time article dehumanizes Indians. It deserves a response not with an article but a campaign that dislodges the authority that decides such articles from their pedestal of morality.

A price needs to be extracted.

Notice that Hassan Minaj treats the western audience as arbiters of the rest of the worlds heathen.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 11 May 2019 07:53

in financial times europe edition allegedly by amy kazmin.

Image

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby UlanBatori » 11 May 2019 07:55

AoA! Khaleej Crimes echoes IANS/ News 18!


Bookies bet on BJP-led government
IANS/Mumbai
Filed on April 24, 2019 | Last updated on April 24, 2019 at 10.41 pm
After completion of polling in 303 out of the 543 Lok Sabha seats, bookies and punters in the unofficial 'Satta Bazaar (betting market) predict a BJP-led coalition government at the centre with Narendra Modi returning as PM, according to sources.
The market also indicates that the ongoing elections are rather more high stakes than the one held in 2014 as the betting turnover this time has crossed an estimated Rs2 trillion, almost double than the previous polls.
After three phases, balloting will take place at another 240 Lok Sabha seats in the remaining four phases. As things stand now in the betting market, the prospects of the two main coalitions - BJP+allies and Congress+allies - roughly stands at 60:40.
The bookies, wary of a close watch being kept by the security agencies, :eek: mostly operate from locations abroad, using special mobile apps, an improvement over earlier practices like online betting.


Dilbullah Syndrome Dhoti-Shivering Disclaimer: Prospects 60:40 does not mean seat ratio 60:40 unfortunately. :((

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby UlanBatori » 11 May 2019 08:01

spokesman Anand sharma mocks the PM for not having any family to holiday on INS Viraat with.PM will pick up on this in his last round of rallies

No kidding? :shock: This seemed like a good idea at the time to these einsteins? They are holding AK-47s to their own butts and firing away? How STOOOPEEED can one get? They haven't been allowed to live down the chaiwallah crack that cost them the 2014 election.
Where is the NDA Machine to roll this one over them?

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby SriKumar » 11 May 2019 08:07

Singha wrote:in latest congi foot in mouth disease (day when RG asks Pitroda to apologize), spokesman Anand sharma mocks the PM for not having any family to holiday on INS Viraat with.

PM will pick up on this in his last round of rallies

Pretty stupid and mean of an official spokie to say this. In any case, For Modi all his subjects are family.....vasu dhaive kutumbakam.

There isn't an a/c carrier large enough to fit NaMo's family and well wishers.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 11 May 2019 08:08

other than defective boeings and lots of pious hotair (do as i say not as i do), americas main exports include these gasbag evangelical bible thumpers who in vast numbers spend weeks under various guises in non-christian parts of the world trying to harvest some souls .... in india they hide under "NGO" and "tourism" and "teaching english to tribal kids" visa buckets .... here in Bali indonesia, this nutjob woman goes around abusing hindu gods near a temple .... unfortunately the locals did not whack her good https://twitter.com/noconversion/status ... 4340722688

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 11 May 2019 08:10

>> There isn't an a/c carrier large enough to fit NaMo's family and well wishers.

india itself is the unsinkable a.c carrier for modi family.

this is the kind of congi yakhont that namo will capture mid air, and redirect its computer to U-turn and home in with pinpoint dive on the firing post :lol:
https://www.timesnownews.com/india/arti ... arb/416728

New Delhi: Brushing off the allegation of former prime minister Rajiv Gandhi using naval warship INS Viraat for a family vacation, Congress leader Anand Sharma said that Prime Minister Narendra Modi would have also done the same if he had a family

“Any PM would do so but this PM has no family, if he had a family then he would also be going there, but he goes alone because he has no connection with a family or any respect for family values,” Sharma was quoted as saying by news agency ANI.


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