2019 General Elections News and Discussion

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shravanp
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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby shravanp » 17 May 2019 00:02

"The Wire" rags interview with Momata, started off with her thanking and applauding "The Wire" for being most honest, truthful and not sold out (unlike other 99% of the media so she claims). And the video ended with her fuming and accusing "The Wire" for TRP gains :rotfl: Never saw things change from one extreme end to another



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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Suraj » 17 May 2019 00:05

Tut tuts and finger wagging from Pagalika, for whom excited reverence for a Gandhi spawn is the only acceptable kind:

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Majority of young in Varanasi in 18-25 age are fanatical fans of @narendramodi . Ask a question and they’re ready to land a punch! online Bhakts come to life. Easy folks, so much Bhakti not good for democracy

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Suraj » 17 May 2019 00:12

khatvaanga wrote:
Suraj wrote: He has no record at a false positive in a wave election, i.e. he has never asserted a wave election when there wasn't one. However he has one instance of a false negative, where in CG 2018 he didn't notice the wave against the incumbent, but then no one did, including the INC.

which is why i am more and more inclined to believe that this is a wave election. either BJP will get like UP 2017 or get wiped out like CG 2018. No inbetweens. So far, all the data, whisper exit polls, news bytes all point towards UP 2017 type verdict.

I want to be more technical here. In GE2019, he identified a wave in favour of NDA by phase 4.

In CG2018 he did not report the existence of a wave, just that Raman Singh was due to return comfortably, but he was wrong - there was a wave and the opposition rode it.

So that means:
* when he says there's a wave, there is one (no false positives), but when he says there's no wave, he might be wrong.
* In the case of the latter, his own bias might prevent him from noticing a wave, but for the other candidate. However, I discount this to an extent because even the INC didn't expect to win CG2018 by such a margin.

Therefore, having projected a wave here, there's multiple additional datapoints suggesting there is - coming even from the likes of Rana Ayyub, Rahul Kanwal and Pagalika, as well as Prannoy.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Manish_Sharma » 17 May 2019 00:26

Suraj wrote:
aylamrin wrote: Cmon people - what's an ECI link to use to report violations ?


Twitter:
Election Commission

@ECISVEEP

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Patni » 17 May 2019 00:40

IMHO most poll prediction models do not factor in the shrinking world that we now live in, and hyper connected nature of new age India. The bump in baseline vote percentage is most likely due to higher participation from first n second time voters as well as increasingly younger mean age of voting public tends to favour vision of modi for future India as compared to robbers thugbandhan of rahulbaba and his chalis chors!! IMHO vast majority of youngistani are more inclined to be nationalists who are lot less forgiving of any tukde tukde sympathizers and pak apologist.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby KLNMurthy » 17 May 2019 01:04

nachiket wrote:I know this is going to be an unpopular opinion here and I might get piled on, but here goes.

I don't think Sadhvi Pragya is cut out to be a politician. Politics is a matter of perception and you do not always say out loud what you might believe in private (no matter if it is "right"), if it can give the opposition a stick to beat you with. Unfortunately, she has done that with the Godse comment. She did it with the Karkare comment too, but that is more forgivable because she had personally suffered because of him. Now the INC's paltu kuttas in the media have smelled blood. She will be relentlessly hounded by the media with controversial questions just so she can make an unforced error like this.

Only silver lining is that there is only 1 phase left and her own constituency has already voted, so the impact will probably be limited.


+1 on Sadhvi not being good on message discipline.

I think the impact of her statement will be less on the election and more on the global reputational war being waged against Indic interests. It is an IED of a statement, any amount of reasoned responses would be useless in countering it.

The damage she has done is huge. It is making me question Modi's political acumen in choosing her. I can only guess he misjudged her.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Nsmith » 17 May 2019 01:14

Patni wrote:...The bump in baseline vote percentage is most likely due to higher participation from first n second time voters as well as increasingly younger mean age of voting public tends to favour vision of modi for future India as compared to robbers thugbandhan of rahulbaba and his chalis chors!! IMHO vast majority of youngistani are more inclined to be nationalists who are lot less forgiving of any tukde tukde sympathizers and pak apologist.


Other than the woke crowd that loves kunal kamra, starbucks lattes and hangs around on r/india, you mean. The more dharti se jude hue crowd is more openly nationalist and prowd of flaunting their patriotism than the previous generation. Explains the NaMo phenomenon and why Uri (the movie) grossed 350+ Cr.

Reading that Swarajya piece on Punjab of the 80s, I realize just how much we've changed as a country in the last 30 odd years. As someone born in 1990, I'm a post liberalization kid who has only seen the country progress. Marred by terror strikes and natural calamities and to a great extent, pussilanimous in many ways... But improving quality of life year on year. The rise of dada and then kohli (if you consider cricket as a microcosm of Indian piskology) ... The way we carry ourselves both within desh and when abroad has changed for the better, reflecting our growing confidence as a nation in our own abilities.

I do wonder what it was like being a high school or a college going person in the late 70s/ 80s with so much shit going around in the country...

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby UlanBatori » 17 May 2019 01:15

Saddhvi pragya is unabashedly and bravely what she is. People who cannot see that are (sorry, deleted). You don't bring in Sachin Tendulkar to sing, and you don't expect Saddhvi Pragya to make political doubletalk.
IMO bringing her into the fray has inspired millions who were disappointed at Modiji's "sabka vikas" instead of the Hindutva focus for which they voted for him in 2014. Getting Saddhviji released from torture, and allowing her to speak her mind, increase my respect for Modiji hugely. This should make up partly for the "backfoot defensive" posture that some here have seen in the BeeJayPee political netaship. More power to her. Any papparazzi who pokes her and then tries to chortle about her answers is just stepping on his own mijjile, IMVHO.
She may win or lose, but every time she speaks she may "turn off" 100,000 apologists and inspire 10,000,000 Indians.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby UlanBatori » 17 May 2019 01:21

I do wonder what it was like being a high school or a college going person in the late 70s/ 80s with so much shit going around in the country...

We thought we would be fighting guerrilla wars in the streets against the sweeping genocidal hordes from Pakistan and China - who would link up with the 5th and 6th columns inside India. Not to mention western forces landing to help them.

In fact my prediction was that north India would be wiped out in nuclear + conventional assault and genocide, so it would be up the deep South to stop and reverse the waves all the way back to the Durand line and Beijing.
Last edited by UlanBatori on 17 May 2019 01:24, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby ShyamSP » 17 May 2019 01:23

ramana wrote:
Singha wrote:sad to the see the 3 telugu leaders fawning and supplicating to the same congress leadership which split their state - something people in the state always complain about.

Long time ago Atri/Kaal described the different types of power enumerated in the Puranas
Ken Boulding also wrote a book on power.
The three Telugu leaders want to use their political power to protect their money power.
They know whats coming in the pipeline wrt to their money power.
They cannot survive another DeMo type strike on their wealth.
CBN in an unguarded moment let out he owns 1 lakh crores.
Who knows what the other two have.
So supplicating to Sonia who divided the Andhra Pradesh tells you the people of the divided state have been fooled again.
The people elect these transactional leaders again and again.

KCR is running a reverse Nizam state: His caste with MIM in support. During Nizam it was MIM types with his caste in tow.

TDP and YCP are doing the eternal inter-caste rivalry.
If you note JS by Pawan Kalyan is tertiary role.


Hardly supplicating. There is no INC and BJP (definitely in AP) for foreseeable future in state politics so they are okay with befriending with national parties for Central politics. Pure Nayaka model without needing but working for Maharaja.

Meanwhile, rumor is that Media baron at request from Petro baron is working with KCR and CBN.

Jenasena function was to cut one caste and youth/new-voter votes from YCP which is reverse of PRP function in 2009.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby chetak » 17 May 2019 01:31

UlanBatori wrote:
I do wonder what it was like being a high school or a college going person in the late 70s/ 80s with so much shit going around in the country...

We thought we would be fighting guerrilla wars in the streets against the sweeping genocidal hordes from Pakistan and China - who would link up with the 5th and 6th columns inside India. Not to mention western forces landing to help them.

In fact my prediction was that north India would be wiped out in nuclear + conventional assault and genocide, so it would be up the deep South to stop and reverse the waves all the way back to the Durand line and Beijing.


as recently as 2000, I met muslims who told me then that in a few months the taliban would be here. they were almost exultant in their belief.

from that to where we are today has been a long haul.

and those guys have gone from exultant to sullen.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby SBajwa » 17 May 2019 01:32

suryag wrote:At the verge of tears after reading this

https://swarajyamag.com/politics/from-the-ground-in-punjab-the-demons-of-1984-are-back-to-haunt-the-congress

Was too small a kid, am sure the reality during those days would have been even worse than what is written in words. Pitroda screwed everything with three words

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby syam » 17 May 2019 01:34

I don't know what's the big deal about gandhi comments.. No one cares. Remember gandhi movies are always box-office disasters. Shows how popular he is with masses.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 17 May 2019 01:34

OK. 39/59 expected in 7 phase.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Suraj » 17 May 2019 01:48

Nsmith wrote:Reading that Swarajya piece on Punjab of the 80s, I realize just how much we've changed as a country in the last 30 odd years. As someone born in 1990, I'm a post liberalization kid who has only seen the country progress. Marred by terror strikes and natural calamities and to a great extent, pussilanimous in many ways... But improving quality of life year on year. The rise of dada and then kohli (if you consider cricket as a microcosm of Indian piskology) ... The way we carry ourselves both within desh and when abroad has changed for the better, reflecting our growing confidence as a nation in our own abilities.

I do wonder what it was like being a high school or a college going person in the late 70s/ 80s with so much shit going around in the country...

Consider yourself very lucky. My mother was afraid to send me to school by bus in because of Khalistani terrorism related issues in Delhi - "transistor bomb" was the way to go then. There were insurgencies everywhere - Khalistan, Assam, elsewhere in NE, Naxals, and more. National politics meant INC. It was much worse in the 70s and 60s, but I wasn't around to see all that.

And being an India cricket fan in the 1990s was a matter of despair, a scar that none of us from that era will fully erase before we kick the bucket.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Shanmukh » 17 May 2019 01:57

ShyamSP wrote:
ramana wrote:Long time ago Atri/Kaal described the different types of power enumerated in the Puranas
Ken Boulding also wrote a book on power.
The three Telugu leaders want to use their political power to protect their money power.
They know whats coming in the pipeline wrt to their money power.
They cannot survive another DeMo type strike on their wealth.
CBN in an unguarded moment let out he owns 1 lakh crores.
Who knows what the other two have.
So supplicating to Sonia who divided the Andhra Pradesh tells you the people of the divided state have been fooled again.
The people elect these transactional leaders again and again.

KCR is running a reverse Nizam state: His caste with MIM in support. During Nizam it was MIM types with his caste in tow.

TDP and YCP are doing the eternal inter-caste rivalry.
If you note JS by Pawan Kalyan is tertiary role.


Hardly supplicating. There is no INC and BJP (definitely in AP) for foreseeable future in state politics so they are okay with befriending with national parties for Central politics. Pure Nayaka model without needing but working for Maharaja.


Don't be so sure. If BJP wins a majority in this poll [which, BTW, is not unrealistic], expect BJP to muscle into Telangana and AP definitely by 2024. In fact, I expect them to make inroads into TN too by 2024, if they win this poll. You are overrating the hatred for the BJP. Is there some annoyance at the BJP? Yes. Hatred, no. And anyway, the increasing EJ pressure in both AP and TN, and increasing annoyance at KCR who is doing a reverse Nizami-giri in Telangana will make the people look to someone who they believe can help them out against the EJs. Just as the increasing mullah pressure is forcing the people of Assam and Bengal to turn to the BJP. Neither the Assamese, nor the Bengalis love the BJP [and that sentiment is reciprocated by the BJP too], but both will work together to keep a lid on the Jihadis.

BTW, BJP will definitely get at least 10 seats in Bengal. More than that, is impossible to say, but by 2024, TMC will be more or less finished.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby KLNMurthy » 17 May 2019 01:58

ramana wrote:nachiket have you walked in her shoes?
Ab Hua to hua.
BJP has distanced itself from her statement.

There were innumerable Congress secondary leaders (MSA, SAM, Doggy etc) making worse comments on NaMo and all RaGa has to say is they should apologize and he gets away.
But buck stops with Modi for his supporters!

Everything you say is perfectly reasonable, but unfortunately the propaganda / PR impact is not amenable to reason. It's a self-gosl which the enemy won't neglect to exploit. If Modi wins we will see its impact when any steps are taken against NGOs snd The Family. If Modi loses, I was already fearful for his life & liberty, and this only makes it all worse. In that event, poor Pragya will have much harder consequences of course.

I am shivering in my dhoti.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Sanju » 17 May 2019 01:58

That Swarajya article on Punjab seems very one sided to me. I don't want to re-open old wounds. My Father was part of the Op though not at the temple or the Takht and He lead one of the first or likely the first convoy from Punjab into Delhi (my brother and I were the only civilians as we had to join our school - we were teens then). We saw the burning trucks and the jhoppad pattis and we visited colonies where the Sikhs told us first hand how their Hindu neighbours protected them from the Mob. The article should have touched upon that. I am writing this to put it on record as the article is linked here.

Ironically, I live in the same place that many of them ran away to.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 17 May 2019 02:01

NCP?

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Sanju » 17 May 2019 02:07

ramana wrote:NCP?


Ramana ji was that Q directed at me?

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby CRamS » 17 May 2019 02:09

I am not someone who gets way too sentimental about GandhiJi, but I can’t understand why his assassin is a desh bhakt? Surely, one can mock Gandhian philosophy of non violence at any cost, and GandhiJi would advocate non violence even in the face of Jihadi terror, but I don’t see any logic in eulogizing Godse, leaving aside thugbandhan sanctimonious cacophony

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Shanmukh » 17 May 2019 02:12

KLNMurthy wrote:
ramana wrote:nachiket have you walked in her shoes?
Ab Hua to hua.
BJP has distanced itself from her statement.

There were innumerable Congress secondary leaders (MSA, SAM, Doggy etc) making worse comments on NaMo and all RaGa has to say is they should apologize and he gets away.
But buck stops with Modi for his supporters!

Everything you say is perfectly reasonable, but unfortunately the propaganda / PR impact is not amenable to reason. It's a self-gosl which the enemy won't neglect to exploit. If Modi wins we will see its impact when any steps are taken against NGOs snd The Family. If Modi loses, I was already fearful for his life & liberty, and this only makes it all worse. In that event, poor Pragya will have much harder consequences of course.

I am shivering in my dhoti.


I don't think there is any self-goal, saar. Gandhi is past tense, and no one really cares that much about him that they will vote on what people say about him. Even his family are not that passionate about him any more. Simply put, there will be no electoral consequences for the comment on Godse.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby nachiket » 17 May 2019 02:20

Suraj wrote:Consider yourself very lucky. My mother was afraid to send me to school by bus in because of Khalistani terrorism related issues in Delhi - "transistor bomb" was the way to go then. There were insurgencies everywhere - Khalistan, Assam, elsewhere in NE, Naxals, and more. National politics meant INC. It was much worse in the 70s and 60s, but I wasn't around to see all that.

I think in the 60's and 70's it was the economic hardships that hurt people the most, rather than the security threats which took center stage from the 80's onward. My father called it a life of "perpetual scarcity", where you had to think hard before spending every paisa. And this was for "middle-class" folk in cities. Can't even imagine what it was like for the really poor.

And being an India cricket fan in the 1990s was a matter of despair, a scar that none of us from that era will fully erase before we kick the bucket.

True :(( That is why some of us react viscerally to any criticism of Tendulkar. He may have had his flaws, but 90's kids grew up knowing him to be our only saviour on the cricket ground.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby syam » 17 May 2019 02:26


Pls check their yt channel.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby darshan » 17 May 2019 02:33

UlanBatori wrote:Saddhvi pragya is unabashedly and bravely what she is. People who cannot see that are (sorry, deleted). You don't bring in Sachin Tendulkar to sing, and you don't expect Saddhvi Pragya to make political doubletalk.
IMO bringing her into the fray has inspired millions who were disappointed at Modiji's "sabka vikas" instead of the Hindutva focus for which they voted for him in 2014.
She may win or lose, but every time she speaks she may "turn off" 100,000 apologists and inspire 10,000,000 Indians.

+1
People just want BJP leadership to change their decision making and machinery as it makes them uncomfortable. Risk and decision making is up to two guys who has survived to bring it this far. If the feedback to their decision making machine is incorrect, then they have lot more to worry about. They are playing long term game and with so many young people coming off the age it is worth taking the risk with phase 7 left. Do people want next generation to also be in the same mold as before and follow Gandhian brainwashing to vote for Italia? Sooner or later Gandhi subject had to touched and revisited for the young generation. Other alternative is to let them be brainwashed like my generation was and make it such that you can't even talk anything negative about Gandhi.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby chetak » 17 May 2019 02:44

Shanmukh wrote:
KLNMurthy wrote:Everything you say is perfectly reasonable, but unfortunately the propaganda / PR impact is not amenable to reason. It's a self-gosl which the enemy won't neglect to exploit. If Modi wins we will see its impact when any steps are taken against NGOs snd The Family. If Modi loses, I was already fearful for his life & liberty, and this only makes it all worse. In that event, poor Pragya will have much harder consequences of course.

I am shivering in my dhoti.


I don't think there is any self-goal, saar. Gandhi is past tense, and no one really cares that much about him that they will vote on what people say about him. Even his family are not that passionate about him any more. Simply put, there will be no electoral consequences for the comment on Godse.


she is carrying a huge chip on her shoulder and far too much baggage.

To a certain extent, she may well be justified but she has now entered a public arena and in an entirely different domain where the rules are different.

grace, finesse and, charm should be her weapons now instead of a blunt hammer.

she will lose all credibility and become a joker like luloo prasad if she continues on the same path.

she has squandered almost all her chances of garnering public sympathy and convincing people to support her.

she has now apparently apologized for calling gosde a desh bakth and she says she respects gandhi.

If you have to walk it back, why open your pie hole in the first place.

every mike thrust in your face is not a chance for one to unload.

A polite "no comment" delivered with a smile would have worked much better.

sadly, she does not even appear to be intelligent

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Najunamar » 17 May 2019 02:56

I think Singhaji was on right track when he said perhaps the MAD doctrine is to go for one person to go for the low percentage shots and draw out the fire like a canard.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 17 May 2019 03:00

I am tired of RW that wants to put their secular strait jacket on BJP.
You will get Congress

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 17 May 2019 03:00

No Pragya spoke her mind.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby sanjaykumar » 17 May 2019 03:02

UlanBatori wrote:
I do wonder what it was like being a high school or a college going person in the late 70s/ 80s with so much shit going around in the country...

We thought we would be fighting guerrilla wars in the streets against the sweeping genocidal hordes from Pakistan and China - who would link up with the 5th and 6th columns inside India. Not to mention western forces landing to help them.

In fact my prediction was that north India would be wiped out in nuclear + conventional assault and genocide, so it would be up the deep South to stop and reverse the waves all the way back to the Durand line and Beijing.



Never know when you're kidding. It wasn't that bad. Okay maybe it was.

Well India can return the favour-otherwise I do not see that much difference on the ground. There would not necessarily be anything wrong about the deep south populating the north, hopefully not stopping at Wagah. But that may only be personal bias as the only real sambhar eaters I have known are all gentle academics.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby VKumar » 17 May 2019 03:05

It's time for a serious, fact and data based debate on Gandhi's actions and speeches from 1940 to his death.

Will bring out astonishing facts.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Mort Walker » 17 May 2019 03:06

ramana wrote:No Pragya spoke her mind.


She spoke the truth. She will win in MP. Digvijay is out.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Mort Walker » 17 May 2019 03:10

VKumar wrote:It's time for a serious, fact and data based debate on Gandhi's actions and speeches from 1940 to his death.

Will bring out astonishing facts.


The facts about the INC and Banditji have to come to light first - as they caused immense damage. MKG can be discussed after that. In the erstwhile nukkad board, we had a discussion about JLN, but was shut down.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby nachiket » 17 May 2019 03:12

Criticizing Gandhi for his umpteen failures, flaws and mistakes is not the same as praising the guy who murdered him. The first needs to happen. The second not so much (especially not in the middle of what is perhaps the most important election in India's history).

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby sanjaykumar » 17 May 2019 03:12

Sanju wrote:That Swarajya article on Punjab seems very one sided to me. I don't want to re-open old wounds. My Father was part of the Op though not at the temple or the Takht and He lead one of the first or likely the first convoy from Punjab into Delhi (my brother and I were the only civilians as we had to join our school - we were teens then). We saw the burning trucks and the jhoppad pattis and we visited colonies where the Sikhs told us first hand how their Hindu neighbours protected them from the Mob. The article should have touched upon that. I am writing this to put it on record as the article is linked here.

Ironically, I live in the same place that many of them ran away to.


Certainly it is grossly one-sided, no mention of all the moderate Sikhs liquidated, the sex slavery, the kidnappings, the murders of Hindus etc.

Recently in a conversation with a semi-literate Sikh taxi driver (probably Mazhabi) who produced all the tired tropes, 2% of the population 70% of the .....fill in the blank. We are peaceful but will fight yada yada. Everything negative about India, finds life blissful in North America.

But when he gave his opinion of prime ministers of India, he showed his pride in naming MMS. I think the issue is one of social status. Sikhs in North India were treated like the first born son. And they were just as trustworthy. It is this fall from grace that can be ego dystonic.

I heard him out, debated whether to give him a tip and gave him.......

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Najunamar » 17 May 2019 03:14

There's not much open talk about any of the figures post independence but for hagiographical fawning depictions- at least that's what I have seen in my text books. I was lucky to have a passionate history teacher in mid-80s when I entered high school who ripped Banditji apart in his classes.

syam
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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby syam » 17 May 2019 03:17


:D primus ji, you will definitely like this one.

Rudradev
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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Rudradev » 17 May 2019 03:34

The problem with Pragya's statement is that even supposedly woke Dharmics still wallow in the presumptions of a deracinated, Macaulayite mentality, whether they realize it or not. 72 years after independence, they continue subscribing to ludicrous Western normative constructs of what is "cricket" and what is "not cricket".

In our own native ethical and normative system it is 10008% credible to both respect Gandhi AND regard Godse as a Desh Bhakt. Both can be perfectly true. Perhaps not in the self-serving and hypocritical Abrahamic dichotomies of "God" vs "Satan", "good" vs "evil", "sin" vs "salvation"...but in the context of dharma, certainly so.

Was Ravan not a learned man, and a devoted Shiv Bhakt? Was Duryodhan not a generous ruler, and kind to those born of less fortunate station? Were these individuals not highly dharmic in their own right, for a large proportion of their lives? And indeed, are they not spoken of in the epics with respectful recognition of these qualities?

Clearly, Ravan and Duryodhan are not "demons" in the black-and-white Abrahamic sense. They are not "Goliath", or "Pharaoh", or "Herod", or "Pilate" or any such rubbish. They may be the principal antagonists of the respective epics they appear in, but even in that role, their dharmic qualities are very much acknowledged.

However, when the brunt of their actions began to contravene dharma... as did MK Gandhi's in 1946-47, with respect to the Muslim League and Pakistan... it was time for them to go. In that situation, it required a desh bhakt like Nathuram Godse to do what was needed and fulfill destiny. And when Godse did the needful, he did so as an agent of dharma.

That's all there is to it. It is perfectly consistent with dharmic norms to respect (even revere) MK Gandhi for what he achieved, and hail Godse as a desh bhakt for assassinating him. That this controversy with Sadhvi Pragya even exists is a sad testimony to the persistence of primitive, atavistic, Yahweh-driven notions of bipolar morality amongst a once-civilized people.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Primus » 17 May 2019 03:52

UlanBatori wrote:Saddhvi pragya is unabashedly and bravely what she is. People who cannot see that are (sorry, deleted). You don't bring in Sachin Tendulkar to sing, and you don't expect Saddhvi Pragya to make political doubletalk.
IMO bringing her into the fray has inspired millions who were disappointed at Modiji's "sabka vikas" instead of the Hindutva focus for which they voted for him in 2014. Getting Saddhviji released from torture, and allowing her to speak her mind, increase my respect for Modiji hugely. This should make up partly for the "backfoot defensive" posture that some here have seen in the BeeJayPee political netaship. More power to her. Any papparazzi who pokes her and then tries to chortle about her answers is just stepping on his own mijjile, IMVHO.
She may win or lose, but every time she speaks she may "turn off" 100,000 apologists and inspire 10,000,000 Indians.


Modi Ji has said on multiple occasions that she is a 'symbol' representing the hurt sentiments of the Hindus - a small token of protest if you like. I believe he is referring not just to the Saffron Terror nonsense but the millennium-long pogrom against Hindus. This is his way of saying - I am listening to you, have faith and wait. It takes cojones of steel to be able to field a candidate like her in a critical election. I don't have any problems with the Sadhvi. It takes courage of a different kind to be her. Remember, YA himself was at one time a raw, politically immature but dedicated person. She too will learn. Meanwhile it is up to all of us to give her all the support we can.

I am always amazed at the ease with which Congoon supporters will accept anything coming from their leader, as if his daily effluent does not even smell, yet we are so quick to throw our own under the bus.

Worth remembering Akbar Allahabadi's immortal words:

"hum aah bhi karte hain to ho jaate hain badnaam
Wo katl bhi karte hain par charcha nahin hota"



India is a polarized country, of that there is no doubt, decades of minority appeasement has changed the narrative and our history beyond recognition. It will take a massive effort and a long period with the right government in power before we see any difference. But it is coming, that too is inevitable.
Last edited by Primus on 17 May 2019 04:37, edited 1 time in total.

nachiket
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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby nachiket » 17 May 2019 03:56

Rudradev ji, I must respectfully disagree with you.

Firstly, my personal interest in this is purely practical and short sighted, inasmuch as I am more interested in whether her statement will decrease Modiji's seat count in the current election. So my main problem with it is lack of tact and subtlety. As a private citizen of course, she can hold whatever views she wishes. It is only a problem because she is a BJP parliamentary candidate and what she says has an effect on the BJP's poll prospects.

As far as your comparison with Duryodhana and Ravana is concerned, I do not see it. Duryodhana and Ravana were at the end of the day, warriors who were felled in battle. Dhritarashtra's greed and Adharmic behavior was as much responsible for the Mahabharata war as Duryodhana himself. Yet the Pandavas did not go and murder him as revenge, despite losing so much (including their own sons) in the war. The person who did commit murder as revenge was Ashwatthama, who got cursed for eternity because of it.

Murder cannot be Dharmic. You are more learned than me, but I humbly suggest we probably have differing interpretations of Krishna's message in the Mahabharata. No more from me on this because it is going OT. You can respond if you wish.


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