2019 General Elections News and Discussion

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Rudradev
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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Rudradev » 17 May 2019 04:04

"Break his thighs". Isn't that what Sri Krishna advised Bhim at the critical moment? Not exactly Marquess of Queensbury rules.

Also, about that shooting down of a brave warrior, son of the Sun, while his chariot was stuck in the mud. Many in the West would read that and call it murder or war-crime or something similarly puerile.

Anyway, this is going so far OT that we should agree to disagree for now. I respect your right to a different perspective as well.

UlanBatori
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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby UlanBatori » 17 May 2019 04:13

Ayub Khan's tanks got stuck in the mud at KhemKaran (or was it Asal Uttar?) Due to chankian evil yindoos breaking a dam with malice aforethought and perfectly timed. Resulted in hajaar Patton tanks becoming unofficial pakistans, distributed on university campuses all over India. Shastriji was faar ahead of his time, far ahead of NaMo SwachBhAbhiyan. Water-free pakistans. OT I know. But enough of this "fair rules" bijnej in a thing like GE. There IS an ECI to decide such things, hain?
For that matter, I have never understood the khulji about "Mankading" a batsman. I would do it without a second thought.

KLNMurthy
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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby KLNMurthy » 17 May 2019 04:17

CRamS wrote:I am not someone who gets way too sentimental about GandhiJi, but I can’t understand why his assassin is a desh bhakt? Surely, one can mock Gandhian philosophy of non violence at any cost, and GandhiJi would advocate non violence even in the face of Jihadi terror, but I don’t see any logic in eulogizing Godse, leaving aside thugbandhan sanctimonious cacophony

Godse was no wanton murderer, he acted from what he sincerely felt were patriotic motives. His idea of patriotism was debatable to put it mildly. He is not unlike Bhagat Singh who committed terrorism. In hinds Godse was surely wrong and his act was terrible and cannot be condoned, it is somewhat more understandable in the context of those tumultuous times.

Both Godse and Bhagat Singh were precocious young men, and ideally should have refrained from rash deeds and stayed around to make valuable contributions to thd ideological growth of free India. But perhaps they couldn't help it, being who they were.

These conversations are highly sensitive and have to be had with circumspection. What Pragya did was incendiary and can't do any good.

UlanBatori
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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby UlanBatori » 17 May 2019 04:31

sanjaykumar wrote: But that may only be personal bias as the only real sambhar eaters I have known are all gentle academics.

I am sending that in an email to WCdr Abhinandan Vartaman. Good luck with the new identity :mrgreen: Too late to send to Shri Veerappan whose moustache was even fiercer.
Have u never watched movies featured Shivaji Ganesan? (Who in Rakta Tilagam massacred the entire PLA 22th infantry division by himself?) MGR? Rajnikantji? Jayalalithaa as Revolver Rita (the original inspiration for THIS, hain?

My calculation was simple. Cheen had thermonukes in those days. India had Ahimsa and Peaceful Pok-1 New Clear Event. If there was an IndiaPak war, India might fight Pak to a standstill or better (like in 1965) but what if cheen repeated the 1962 attempt? They would not hesitate to use their nukes to take over the Indian heartland. Or at most there might be an India-Pak new clear exchange leaving the heartland cities glowing - and the armies gone. Yes, my bro did NCC training and used to come back with scraped knees and dust all over his uniform from crawling under barbed wire on gravel carrying a rifle. If it comes to that, hain, I have managed to hit 20/25 inside the first ring (outside bullseye) with a .303 from what seemed like 200 or 300 meters without breaking my collarbone, and did not emulate my dear (now long departed) classmate who managed to hit the concrete embankment 2 inches in front of the barrel. (a few minor injuries from flying chips, months of mess-hall laughter).

In those days there was a famine every year, or every alternate year. To add to the anthropogenic excitement. Believe it, things are better today. Hope I can say that on May 24.

Primus
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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Primus » 17 May 2019 05:59

syam wrote: :D primus ji, you will definitely like this one.


Indeed. Thank you Syam Ji. Well spoken guy. I wish Kumar Biswas would be equally candid.

Pratyush
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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Pratyush » 17 May 2019 05:59

Those who are conflicted about Godse as a patriot I will say need to read his statement in the court during his trial.

Does that mean that Gandhi was not a great man.

I would say that he was in the context of the pre independent India due to the following reasons.

1) breaking the back of British claims of moral superiority over Indians through non violence.

2) having an intuitive understanding of the economic basis of discrimination in the society and trying to solve it through mass participation in economic activity through charkha. Another matter that his followers could not understand what he was trying to do and that charkha became an end in itself and not the means that he wanted it to be.

So they can both be respected and appreciated for their actions.

An appreciation of one dosent automatically mean a rejection of the other. It's the context that matters.

Nehru Khandan has done more to harm the legacy of Gandhi than any support for Godse ever could. As he only shot the man. Khandan gave up on him sociall and economically even before the bullets were fired on him.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Manish_Sharma » 17 May 2019 06:06

LakshmanPST wrote:-
1) Gandhi's image is still quite positive among general public...

Sadhvi Pragya (and a lot of BJP leaders for that matter) should learn strategic silence...
Saying something as an individual is different from saying something as a leader of the party...


Being a Punjabi, I assure you it will have very positive effects there ... like Bengal we also suffered due to paapatma's tushtikaran of porkistan, that we share the treasure with porkis but take all the loans upon Bharat leaving porkis butdenless is seen to be his doing...

There are people like Sadhvi Pragya ji are needed.

My Grandfather made a huge house in Lahore a chaar chhattaa, he passed away in 1942, when muslims started aagzani, my grandmother came to Haridwar with her 6 children.... we lost everything, story didn't end here, govt offered houses OR money as compensation We chose money as good land/houses were given to people with good political connections we had none . But after first 2 installment govt claimed they had no money anymore (dirty WORLD LEADERS gandhi and nehru had money for repaying Pakistan's loans but not for us citizens)

gandhi guy was just one among myriad others dead ... who cares. Our huge below forty population certainly doesn't

Sadhvi ji could have taken easy way by accepting Hindu terror charges but Steel Spined Devi Sadhvi Pragya took all the pain but shielded Dharma. Every word she says is coming from THE SOURCE it will bring shubhtaa for Bharat

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Lilo » 17 May 2019 06:15

The "non-violence" of Duratma was a cover legitimizing the brutal violence of the British towards the real patriots fighting for India.
Daily the British would brutally shootdead/hang/torture till death the real deshbhakts without due process by saying "why couldnt you have fought a non-violent fight against us - like Duratma and his cohort are doing?". The Duratma from sidelines played his part by condemning the "violence" of the deshbhakt being killed while legitimizing the British violence. All the while presstitutes controlled by Tatas/Birlas amplified Duratma's message of "non-violence" all over India while claiming that the most recently killed deshbhakt had blemished the "pure non-violent" struggle for Independence and deservedly met his violent death.

This was the level of perversion.

This charade of "non-violent" independence struggle played out every damn day ever since Duratma usurped the leadership in the 1910s .

There is not an iota of "non-violence" in Duratma's usurped control of the fight for Independence against the brishits.
Last edited by Lilo on 17 May 2019 11:15, edited 3 times in total.

VinodTK
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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby VinodTK » 17 May 2019 06:21

All,
please take Godse & Gandhi of this thread

Thanks in advance

Manish_Sharma
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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Manish_Sharma » 17 May 2019 06:22

KLNMurthy wrote:
+1 on Sadhvi not being good on message discipline.

I think the impact of her statement will be less on the election and more on the global reputational war being waged against Indic interests. ...


What global reputation?

Hindusthanam is under prachand CRUHAD = CRUSADE + JIHAD (outsourced to leftist platforms)

Marx said Monkey and Elephant worshiping Hindus must be wiped

Same by other two monotheistic religions.

World is out to wipe us out. We cannot convince Democrat clintons or obama (who made nasty comments as a guest) as weather left or right they all agree on this single point agenda....

Don't waste energy in convincing anyone

Picklu
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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Picklu » 17 May 2019 06:25

Sadhvi is playing her part in "change the narrative" process. A small but immensely important part.

Narratives, that are held for ages, do not change just like that. It is a process. And one important step in that process is to have a storm trooper to raise the unpopular POV at the initial stage. He/she will bear the burnt of negative sentiments and push back, not from just the establishment but also from the population seeped in the ongoing narrative. Even his/her associates would be singed to some extent. And it is by design and it is good. because these brings in part 2 of the process.

SEE, NO ONE WILL CHANGE THEIR POV JUST BECAUSE HE/SHE BROUGHT IT UP in PART 1. But that's ok. The job is still done. The idea has been floated. The population has received the shock. Next it is the job of the initial supporters of the unpopular POV to do the communication is a polished manner. Many times the supporters would be forced to, because they are getting singed by association otherwise. This is part 2 of the "change the narrative" process.

And the success of changing the narrative depends on the sustenance of this part 2. The more vocal the supporters, the faster is its spread in the population. The more they can continue their communication and withstand the oncoming brick bats from the establishment, the more chance of making a lasting impression on the population initially antagonized to the idea. *

And that's the game NaMo is playing, changing not just the administration but the overall narrative. It is a long game but only this can ensure the long term success of BJP because otherwise it is just another version of the existing political parties. In this, he will need both kinds, the common supporters but more importantly, some storm trooper who are unafraid to take on both the establishment and population. Typically, such folks do not appear as the smartest and suave. But that's one of the most important role and not many are available to take that up as it needs enormous amount of moral courage and conviction to disregard the well being of self and associates.

Also, three more important points to consider.
a. Opening up too many fronts simultaneously is counter productive, hence important to ensure not too many green horn storm troopers are in play. I think, now that Yogi is established, there was space for another storm trooper and Sadhvi fits in.

b. It is important for the storm trooper to use the most visible event to raise her "change the narrative" pov to ensure it reaches the max audience. In India, nothing beats a "Indian General Election League" ** in terms of audience. If NaMo hadn't brought her in as an election candidate in a high profile battle, she could shout all these and none would have cared. Neither would the supporters be forced to be vocal about it.

c. The storm trooper has to fit in that role naturally, some one not having the necessary qualities would slink away at the face of adversity and hide completely from view. She is playing that part perfectly, raising the points to ensure traction among the right wing tweeple and then taking a step back personally to ensure BJP's electoral chances are not marred by her utterances. Very few of the right wing tweeple are inclined towards her naturally to pick up the fight but they will be forced to as associated with BJP's electoral prospect.

* And this is where the importance of the sanctuary for the supporters come in. The common supporters, though passionate, do not have what it takes to be a storm trooper and hence will need a protected space. Sometimes a part of them will be conflicted on their own but will find the common path as long as internal communication within the sanctuary is going on and is protected. NaMo's win in 2014 ensured that sanctuary and hopefully, that will continue else the supporters will go silent and the process will die a natural death. I still rue the closure of GDF as one such sanctuary for large scale debate and dissemination of RW ideas. Hopefully individual whatsapp groups have taken up the slack as distributed vs central with single point of failure mode of operation.

** With 7 phases and 2 months, no other description is apt.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby kit » 17 May 2019 07:20

Godse was an extremist.. as with extreme measures they are rarely condoned not to talk about how anyone can justify it. Netaji subhash Chandra Bose had the right plan and would have had a great opportunity if he was not assassinated by some Indians with ulterior motives in cahoots with a foreign power. That truth will come to light soon. Indeed it would have been a different India had Bose not been assassinated. The nehru clan would have long gone.

Manish_Sharma
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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Manish_Sharma » 17 May 2019 07:44

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Rs 6000 to farmers
और तुम 5 साल तक रोते ही रहे! https://t.co/uhmuzKPTdU

UlanBatori
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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby UlanBatori » 17 May 2019 07:49

Whatever may be my opinion of the correctness of P.S.' statement, she broke a taboo and freed up discussion. Others making that statement would be just walking into the EC trap, but not P.S. Just like NaMo breaking the halo around St. RG the First. AFAIK, the effect is liberating, and good electioneering. In the remaining parts where polling is scheduled, I think this plays well, because these parts are quite polarized. Trying to please the Middle only alienates one's own side. P-S' kind of statement fires up the Faithful. See Ocean-ikka's :(( about how fired up the Youth in You-Pee are.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 17 May 2019 08:13

nachiket wrote:I know this is going to be an unpopular opinion here and I might get piled on, but here goes.

I don't think Sadhvi Pragya is cut out to be a politician. Politics is a matter of perception and you do not always say out loud what you might believe in private (no matter if it is "right"), if it can give the opposition a stick to beat you with. Unfortunately, she has done that with the Godse comment. She did it with the Karkare comment too, but that is more forgivable because she had personally suffered because of him. Now the INC's paltu kuttas in the media have smelled blood. She will be relentlessly hounded by the media with controversial questions just so she can make an unforced error like this.

Only silver lining is that there is only 1 phase left and her own constituency has already voted, so the impact will probably be limited.
one place her comments won't cost the bjp even 1 vote, is WB.

MKG isn't a particularly liked character in Bengal for a variety of reasons, pushing SCB out from Cong presidency, not doing enough to stop partition, stepmotherly treatment to Bengals armed revolutionaries and of course his response to the riots.

Also, right now Bengals elections are a local issue with the only thing that matters is the good fight against tmc.

Atmavik
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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Atmavik » 17 May 2019 08:20

WB will start a new revolution on may 23rd

#hamar noaam, thumaar noaam, JAI SHRI RAM

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Sanju » 17 May 2019 08:22

The outing of both St. RG the first and MKG is a revelation for the new gen..as these two are associated with Congress. And the general sense is that, any association with Congress is bad. This maybe slowly seeping in with this generation as anything associated with RSS was bad for my generation and still is to a large extent.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Picklu » 17 May 2019 08:31

The new generation is also not aware of Gandhiji's "experiments" with her underage relatives and the real disease that caused death of banditji. Not that they are secret, rather the eco system has done a great job of hiding them in plain sight by making them academic affair away from popular discourse.

Uttering those during election time will also do a lot for making them wide spread and removing the halo.

Personal opinion, both man have lot of excellent qualities and the new generation have to learn a lot from them. Rarely anyone else have positively influenced so many. And removing the artificial god like halo will actually help to separate the chaff from the grain.

Else it will be similar to Left front using a line of Rabindranath to remove English from education system or a line from Sri Ramakrishna Paramhansa for minority appeasement.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Mort Walker » 17 May 2019 08:46

Rahul M wrote:
nachiket wrote:I know this is going to be an unpopular opinion here and I might get piled on, but here goes.

I don't think Sadhvi Pragya is cut out to be a politician. Politics is a matter of perception and you do not always say out loud what you might believe in private (no matter if it is "right"), if it can give the opposition a stick to beat you with. Unfortunately, she has done that with the Godse comment. She did it with the Karkare comment too, but that is more forgivable because she had personally suffered because of him. Now the INC's paltu kuttas in the media have smelled blood. She will be relentlessly hounded by the media with controversial questions just so she can make an unforced error like this.

Only silver lining is that there is only 1 phase left and her own constituency has already voted, so the impact will probably be limited.
one place her comments won't cost the bjp even 1 vote, is WB.

MKG isn't a particularly liked character in Bengal for a variety of reasons, pushing SCB out from Cong presidency, not doing enough to stop partition, stepmotherly treatment to Bengals armed revolutionaries and of course his response to the riots.

Also, right now Bengals elections are a local issue with the only thing that matters is the good fight against tmc.


Yes. SCB should be on the Indian Rupee notes and not MKG.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 17 May 2019 09:05

Congi leftist bif ecosystem is like a vast protective energy octupus with force fields extending into media college academia curriculum

Its like a giant ADGES/a2ad system with everything from 30mm radar guided aa guns to BMD missiles

To take down and damage this system just one INS Modi cruiser using vls cells is nowhere enough

All types and sizes of sea and air assets have to be used

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 17 May 2019 09:21

VinodTK wrote:All,
please take Godse & Gandhi of this thread

Thanks in advance


Let them talk.
No need to stifle voice.

ramana
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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 17 May 2019 09:24

One thing I am proud of this thread is it brought back BRF mojo.

ramana
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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 17 May 2019 09:25

Atmavik wrote:WB will start a new revolution on may 23rd

#hamar noaam, thumaar noaam, JAI SHRI RAM


#JaiShriRam

kit
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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby kit » 17 May 2019 09:26

Singha wrote:Congi leftist bif ecosystem is like a vast protective energy octupus with force fields extending into media college academia curriculum

Its like a giant ADGES/a2ad system with everything from 30mm radar guided aa guns to BMD missiles

To take down and damage this system just one INS Modi cruiser using vls cells is nowhere enough

All types and sizes of sea and air assets have to be used


too many scifi movies ? :mrgreen:

We just need one "Battleship" to take down the "mothership"..( Nehru family )

why do you think pappu goes about "hugging" and "loving" NaMo? ..under instructions from those who fear him !!..the one battleship cruiser with enough firepower that can take down the entire Con gress armada.
Last edited by kit on 17 May 2019 09:29, edited 1 time in total.

ramana
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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 17 May 2019 09:28

Rudradev wrote:The problem with Pragya's statement is that even supposedly woke Dharmics still wallow in the presumptions of a deracinated, Macaulayite mentality, whether they realize it or not. 72 years after independence, they continue subscribing to ludicrous Western normative constructs of what is "cricket" and what is "not cricket".

In our own native ethical and normative system it is 10008% credible to both respect Gandhi AND regard Godse as a Desh Bhakt. Both can be perfectly true. Perhaps not in the self-serving and hypocritical Abrahamic dichotomies of "God" vs "Satan", "good" vs "evil", "sin" vs "salvation"...but in the context of dharma, certainly so.

Was Ravan not a learned man, and a devoted Shiv Bhakt? Was Duryodhan not a generous ruler, and kind to those born of less fortunate station? Were these individuals not highly dharmic in their own right, for a large proportion of their lives? And indeed, are they not spoken of in the epics with respectful recognition of these qualities?

Clearly, Ravan and Duryodhan are not "demons" in the black-and-white Abrahamic sense. They are not "Goliath", or "Pharaoh", or "Herod", or "Pilate" or any such rubbish. They may be the principal antagonists of the respective epics they appear in, but even in that role, their dharmic qualities are very much acknowledged.

However, when the brunt of their actions began to contravene dharma... as did MK Gandhi's in 1946-47, with respect to the Muslim League and Pakistan... it was time for them to go. In that situation, it required a desh bhakt like Nathuram Godse to do what was needed and fulfill destiny. And when Godse did the needful, he did so as an agent of dharma.

That's all there is to it. It is perfectly consistent with dharmic norms to respect (even revere) MK Gandhi for what he achieved, and hail Godse as a desh bhakt for assassinating him. That this controversy with Sadhvi Pragya even exists is a sad testimony to the persistence of primitive, atavistic, Yahweh-driven notions of bipolar morality amongst a once-civilized people.


RD chill guy.
Don't demand super correctness from her.
Look at what she suffered.

kit
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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby kit » 17 May 2019 09:37

ramana wrote:
VinodTK wrote:All,
please take Godse & Gandhi of this thread

Thanks in advance


Let them talk.
No need to stifle voice.


+1 .

Gandhi was on a pedestal for long. Time to lose that mindset. He has done enough mistakes as well. For a new India !!.. this country needs to loose its pacifism and believe in the active defence/offence and take what is rightfully hers. The world does not condone weakness and India needs a strong leadership the likes of SCB and never someone like anyone in the Nehru clan, the earliest they decamp to Italy the better.

kit
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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby kit » 17 May 2019 09:40

Rudradev wrote:The problem with Pragya's statement is that even supposedly woke Dharmics still wallow in the presumptions of a deracinated, Macaulayite mentality, whether they realize it or not. 72 years after independence, they continue subscribing to ludicrous Western normative constructs of what is "cricket" and what is "not cricket".

In our own native ethical and normative system it is 10008% credible to both respect Gandhi AND regard Godse as a Desh Bhakt. Both can be perfectly true. Perhaps not in the self-serving and hypocritical Abrahamic dichotomies of "God" vs "Satan", "good" vs "evil", "sin" vs "salvation"...but in the context of dharma, certainly so.

Was Ravan not a learned man, and a devoted Shiv Bhakt? Was Duryodhan not a generous ruler, and kind to those born of less fortunate station? Were these individuals not highly dharmic in their own right, for a large proportion of their lives? And indeed, are they not spoken of in the epics with respectful recognition of these qualities?

Clearly, Ravan and Duryodhan are not "demons" in the black-and-white Abrahamic sense. They are not "Goliath", or "Pharaoh", or "Herod", or "Pilate" or any such rubbish. They may be the principal antagonists of the respective epics they appear in, but even in that role, their dharmic qualities are very much acknowledged.

However, when the brunt of their actions began to contravene dharma... as did MK Gandhi's in 1946-47, with respect to the Muslim League and Pakistan... it was time for them to go. In that situation, it required a desh bhakt like Nathuram Godse to do what was needed and fulfill destiny. And when Godse did the needful, he did so as an agent of dharma.

That's all there is to it. It is perfectly consistent with dharmic norms to respect (even revere) MK Gandhi for what he achieved, and hail Godse as a desh bhakt for assassinating him. That this controversy with Sadhvi Pragya even exists is a sad testimony to the persistence of primitive, atavistic, Yahweh-driven notions of bipolar morality amongst a once-civilized people.


Quite true. Wish everyone understood the concept.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby pankajs » 17 May 2019 09:53

The *stars* are aligning such that.

1. 17th May onwards the world will enter a very volatile period.
2. 15 Jun till July end will be particularly very very explosive.

This will be generally true the world over but in India with elections entering its final phase ... Watch out.

a. Expect vociferous protests even if Modi is elected with majority.
b. Expect major *organised* events
, organised internally and externally, to challenge the Modi government till about the end of the year.
c. Expect challenges to Modi by volatile external environment too. Are war clouds looming?
d. Expect *major* natural calamities across the globe till the end of the year.
e. Be very careful if you play in the financial markets.

The *volatility* in the general environment will be pronounced till the end of the year end but some of the effects will carry over to the next year.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby sanjaykumar » 17 May 2019 10:02

Preposterous

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby kit » 17 May 2019 10:04

pankajs wrote:The *stars* are aligning such that.

1. 17th May onwards the world will enter a very volatile period.
2. 15 Jun till July end will be particularly very very explosive.

This will be generally true the world over but in India with elections entering its final phase ... Watch out.

a. Expect vociferous protests even if Modi is elected with majority.
b. Expect major *organised* events
, organised internally and externally, to challenge the Modi government till about the end of the year.
c. Expect challenges to Modi by volatile external environment too. Are war clouds looming?
d. Expect *major* natural calamities across the globe till the end of the year.
e. Be very careful if you play in the financial markets.

The *volatility* in the general environment will be pronounced till the end of the year end but some of the effects will carry over to the next year.



seriously?

aylamrin
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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby aylamrin » 17 May 2019 10:12

Could we have election related discussion only on this thread?
Would be delighted if anyone has any to add on WB ...

Singha
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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 17 May 2019 10:50

Was Ravan not a learned man, and a devoted Shiv Bhakt? Was Duryodhan not a generous ruler, and kind to those born of less fortunate station? Were these individuals not highly dharmic in their own right, for a large proportion of their lives? And indeed, are they not spoken of in the epics with respectful recognition of these qualities?


many other examples - karna, dronacharya, bheesma, ashwathama, bhagadutta, jayadratha, even hiranya-yakshipu (prahlads father) ...

the west does not have anything as layered and complex as our epics. their mindset is crude and binary - black or white, with us or against us(kuffar/pagan). only few characters like loki and zeus are depicted as a bit grey...but those were old pagan religions predating the zero-sum militant abrahamic faiths by more than 1000 years :D

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby hnair » 17 May 2019 10:52

nachiket, my main grouse with the Sadhvi's team is that she just need to talk only about her travails and not target any nationally admired figures - Indian voters are suckers for passive-aggressive plays!! A cursory look at Gandhi himself will show how effective that technique is, particularly with that old horndog as her opponent :D

Instead, she is made to enact a role she is not cut out to be, the polemic regular politician. That makes the voter forget she is a court-certified bonafide martyr and not a regular candidate.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby vera_k » 17 May 2019 10:52

I feel the dueling statements about Godse with one side calling him a terrorist and the other calling him a patriot are just each side rallying their supporters. There is no reason to read anything more into it.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Suraj » 17 May 2019 11:16

Picklu wrote:Sadhvi is playing her part in "change the narrative" process. A small but immensely important part.

Narratives, that are held for ages, do not change just like that. It is a process. And one important step in that process is to have a storm trooper to raise the unpopular POV at the initial stage. He/she will bear the burnt of negative sentiments and push back, not from just the establishment but also from the population seeped in the ongoing narrative. Even his/her associates would be singed to some extent. And it is by design and it is good. because these brings in part 2 of the process.

SEE, NO ONE WILL CHANGE THEIR POV JUST BECAUSE HE/SHE BROUGHT IT UP in PART 1. But that's ok. The job is still done. The idea has been floated. The population has received the shock. Next it is the job of the initial supporters of the unpopular POV to do the communication is a polished manner. Many times the supporters would be forced to, because they are getting singed by association otherwise. This is part 2 of the "change the narrative" process.

And the success of changing the narrative depends on the sustenance of this part 2. The more vocal the supporters, the faster is its spread in the population. The more they can continue their communication and withstand the oncoming brick bats from the establishment, the more chance of making a lasting impression on the population initially antagonized to the idea. *

And that's the game NaMo is playing, changing not just the administration but the overall narrative. It is a long game but only this can ensure the long term success of BJP because otherwise it is just another version of the existing political parties. In this, he will need both kinds, the common supporters but more importantly, some storm trooper who are unafraid to take on both the establishment and population. Typically, such folks do not appear as the smartest and suave. But that's one of the most important role and not many are available to take that up as it needs enormous amount of moral courage and conviction to disregard the well being of self and associates.

Also, three more important points to consider.
a. Opening up too many fronts simultaneously is counter productive, hence important to ensure not too many green horn storm troopers are in play. I think, now that Yogi is established, there was space for another storm trooper and Sadhvi fits in.

b. It is important for the storm trooper to use the most visible event to raise her "change the narrative" pov to ensure it reaches the max audience. In India, nothing beats a "Indian General Election League" ** in terms of audience. If NaMo hadn't brought her in as an election candidate in a high profile battle, she could shout all these and none would have cared. Neither would the supporters be forced to be vocal about it.

c. The storm trooper has to fit in that role naturally, some one not having the necessary qualities would slink away at the face of adversity and hide completely from view. She is playing that part perfectly, raising the points to ensure traction among the right wing tweeple and then taking a step back personally to ensure BJP's electoral chances are not marred by her utterances. Very few of the right wing tweeple are inclined towards her naturally to pick up the fight but they will be forced to as associated with BJP's electoral prospect.

* And this is where the importance of the sanctuary for the supporters come in. The common supporters, though passionate, do not have what it takes to be a storm trooper and hence will need a protected space. Sometimes a part of them will be conflicted on their own but will find the common path as long as internal communication within the sanctuary is going on and is protected. NaMo's win in 2014 ensured that sanctuary and hopefully, that will continue else the supporters will go silent and the process will die a natural death. I still rue the closure of GDF as one such sanctuary for large scale debate and dissemination of RW ideas. Hopefully individual whatsapp groups have taken up the slack as distributed vs central with single point of failure mode of operation.

** With 7 phases and 2 months, no other description is apt.

Spectacular post there, Picklu!

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby chetak » 17 May 2019 11:18

twitter


Just as Subhash Chandra Bose was true patriot even though he opposed Gandhi's ahimsa doctrine& opted for violent means--even sought help of Hitler & Mussolini in his fight against the British, so also Nathuram Godse was a patriot despite being mortal enemy of Gandhi

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Manu » 17 May 2019 11:18

Singha wrote:the west does not have anything as layered and complex as our epics. their mindset is crude and binary - black or white, with us or against us(kuffar/pagan). only few characters like loki and zeus are depicted as a bit grey...but those were old pagan religions predating the zero-sum militant abrahamic faiths by more than 1000 years :D


Let us not discount Iliad and Odyssey - Homer - was very much a 'Western Man' (and Greece Birthplace of Western Democracy).

Greek influence on Puranic thought is also not to be underestimated. It is thought that Murti Puja was a result of Greek (of Gandhara fame) influence.

Even the Norse Gods were very complex.

All turned very black and white when BC turned to AD, unfortunately.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Neela » 17 May 2019 11:28

Sure Gandy was clever in taking moral highground and understanding economics to some extent.
But a leader of a movement cannot stand on such principles alone and pursue it despite millions of HIndu victims.
Plus sending 2 million troops to WW2 which was not even our fight was a blunder.
I would assume that at that juncture, we needed someone far more clever / having a 360 degree view / having a killer instinct to achieve results faster. Several 100 British victims of riots all of the country would have changed it in 1940s when hold was tenous.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Karthik S » 17 May 2019 11:33

Read in twitter that savarkar indeed was ok with Indians fighting in WW2, his idea was that with arms acts in place, Indians forgot how to fight, fighting in a war would give them necessary training to fight (if necessary) against the brita$tards. If this is true, then things happened as planned as it was the naval mutiny that made the brita$tards to flee.

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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 17 May 2019 11:37

india was the only large populous country not burned badly by WW2 - none of these leaders knew the true horrors of a mass war.

usa
russia
uk
france
china
italy
spain (had a civil war francesco franco(with axis powers) vs communists)
japan
germany
poland


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