Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

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arshyam
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Re: 2019 General Elections News and Discussion

Postby arshyam » 25 May 2019 09:33

hanumadu wrote:I said before that Modi should learn Tamil for 2024. Also Modi is a great orator. His message is being lost in translation. In fact, any politician from the north has to learn as many southern Indian languages as possible, but Tamil is a must. It will immediately endear him to the people.

Not needed saar. It will onlee make these usual suspects bray loudly about Tamil pride and how Modi had to bow to it, and other related shite. It's okay however, to use a phrase here or there - any part of the world, people love it if a visitor tries to use the local language despite not knowing it. This is all the more true in places where the language attachment is high.

What's needed is a local Modi - Indic, charismatic, and Hindu nationalist to the core who can dominate any Tamil debates with wordplay. Someone like Jeyamohan, but who is also a politician. If not in BJP, in a friendly but independent outfit that can be supported to grow.

A tall order, I guess.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby arshyam » 25 May 2019 09:43

x-posting a few TN-related posts here from the elections thread based on ShyamSP garu's request. This is also a more relevant thread to discuss.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby arshyam » 25 May 2019 09:46

arshyam wrote:
chandrasekaran wrote:#3. Give tacit and overt encouragement to the Aadheenams big time. I am of the firm opinion that the non-upper-caste Hindu Mathams have done yeoman service in KA. We need to replicate that in TN as well.

This is a very important point, saar, thanks for bringing this up. Adheenams in TN aren't as big as in KA (think Siddaganga Math). The Siddaganga math also runs a lot of educational institutions, and provides spiritual grounding for a lot of people in the community. Various communities have their own mathas, like for Adichunchanagiri for Vokkaligas. Then there is Sringeri math, the ashta mathas in Udupi, etc. Together, they all help consolidate Hindu culture, which is why the rice-bag EJ types haven't been able to make any inroads in KA.

In TN, most of the mathas like the Kanchi math are regarded as Brahmins' institutions, which was why Jayalalitha was able to get away with the Shankaracharya's arrest. Beyond that, people's devotion is personal and simply go to the nearest temple, thiruvizha, etc. But this is also opens some people towards poaching by the EJ types.

Anyway, I am sure you know all this, but wanted to elaborate on your point for everyone's benefit, as I too think this is a significant difference between TN and KA when it comes to cultural and spiritual issues. AP is perhaps similar to TN in this regard: lots of famous and crowded temples at Tirupati, Kalahasthi, Srisailam, Bhadrachalam, Kanakadurga, Mantralayam, etc., but EJ activity for some reason continues unabated. Of course, it would be good to get some insights from AP+TS folks on this...

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby arshyam » 25 May 2019 09:47

Theeran wrote:
arshyam wrote:This is a very important point, saar, thanks for bringing this up. Adheenams in TN aren't as big as in KA (think Siddaganga Math). The Siddaganga math also runs a lot of educational institutions, and provides spiritual grounding for a lot of people in the community. Various communities have their own mathas, like for Adichunchanagiri for Vokkaligas. Then there is Sringeri math, the ashta mathas in Udupi, etc. Together, they all help consolidate Hindu culture, which is why the rice-bag EJ types haven't been able to make any inroads in KA.

In TN, most of the mathas like the Kanchi math are regarded as Brahmins' institutions, which was why Jayalalitha was able to get away with the Shankaracharya's arrest. Beyond that, people's devotion is personal and simply go to the nearest temple, thiruvizha, etc. But this is also opens some people towards poaching by the EJ types.

Anyway, I am sure you know all this, but wanted to elaborate on your point for everyone's benefit, as I too think this is a significant difference between TN and KA when it comes to cultural and spiritual issues. AP is perhaps similar to TN in this regard: lots of famous and crowded temples at Tirupati, Kalahasthi, Srisailam, Bhadrachalam, Kanakadurga, Mantralayam, etc., but EJ activity for some reason continues unabated. Of course, it would be good to get some insights from AP+TS folks on this...


Perur adheenam is quite popular. There are numerous temples in the kongu region patronized by the locals that hardly anyone outside knows about. The temples are for karuppurayan, patteeswarar, maariamman.. The ones in eachanari, maruthamalai, pollachi Murugan temple to name just a few.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby arshyam » 25 May 2019 09:48

chandrasekaran wrote:Unlike AP (I could be wrong here, happy to be corrected) The Aadheenams in TN not only have a glorious past that goes all the way to a millennia, they control pretty much every temple in the cauvery belt and thereby at least at names sake quite a large swathe of property as well . I think it will be the same case with Madurai aadhenam (South TN) too. The main issue however is that for reasons unknown to me, they seem to maintain such a low profile. This is quite sad. Perhaps they are quite afraid to take on the *DK* goons directly.

I believe by giving them the full might of the central government, albeit tacitly, the rampant conversion racket can be countered without this being at odds at Tamil identity. If this is done the crypto's will have a big problem giving this a Brahmin/Aryan/Northie identity. One of the biggest ways BJP is discredited in TN is by labeling it as a brahmin/pappan party. There needs a solution to this and I think this is one way.

In fact this should go beyond Aadheenams, modern hindu organizations like Akshaya Patra, Iskon, Ramakrishna Matham, some of the northie Sri Vaishnav and Shaivaite sects must be encouraged to set up their branches and actively encouraged to do visible social service in the name of Hindu religion. Tamil must be the language however. This is quite easy as next to Sanskirt, Tamil perhaps has the largest corpus of Hindu literature, This needs to happen for the next 3-4 years and BJP's association must be overt towards the end of 4th year in time for 2023.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby arshyam » 25 May 2019 09:48

arshyam wrote:
Karthik S wrote:
Shyam, the EJs have been way too powerful since the beginning because of DK and DMK gangs. Many such hindu figures have been falsely targeted and people still voted same parties. Even if TN had as many mathas as KA, all of them would have been hounded off by EJs with the help of D parties.

Yes, now they are powerful, and we can see the repeated attacks on Sadhguru and Sri Sri. But there is no other way I can think of saar. It's a hard fight, and will have to be fought. Just talking about Hindu issues when it is only a personal matter of faith won't win votes, people need to be invested in it.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby arshyam » 25 May 2019 09:50

vsunder wrote:The aadheenams wear deserted looks. Only a few old people there. I suppose younger people are busy doing whats app and forwarding memes. Other sites like jeeva samadhis in TN are largely unknown by younger people in TN. The buildings in the adheenams for the most part need serious renovation and are dilapidated. They are not only spiritual centers but also places where real history took place. A few of course are well patronized and are doing well, but the large majority are in dire straits.

An example is the Koviloor adheenam

http://www.kovilur.com/

It has a branch on the old giri pradikshina road in Tiruvannamalai and attached to it is the samadhi of that personage one Isanya Desikar

http://davidgodman.org/asaints/isdesikar.shtml

You can read Godman's article of the connection with Koviloor math. The aadhenam at T'Malai is in poor shape, dilapidated buildings, but a place of immense quiet and peace. Many historical things happened here, too numerous to list, even someone with a cursory interest in history leave alone the spiritual and other aspect would help in keeping the place in a sounder condition.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby arshyam » 25 May 2019 09:51

krisna wrote:wrt to Tamil Nadu and its language.
From what I know- Tamilians were not as paranoid than any other language people if looking thru prism of history. They were as good or bad as any other kingdom of the past in various parts of India. free movements of people etc.

post-1947 lot of changes happened. a lot of non Indian activities were unleashed in various parts of India to make them believe in non-Indianness.

In TN, it got a lightning rod with Hindi imposition which catapulted the present dravidian streak with political power.
Recall justice party etc even pre-independence had leaders feted in europe and america. they had as usual given sermons just like we have for scamgress and others.

____________________________________________
One of the main issues in all the above is loss of Sanskrit Tamil connection.

for 1000s of years, Sanskrit as pan Indian language and various local languages have had close interactions with each other. No conflicts with each other. Each language helped other languages to co-exist peacefully.

many Indian languages have loan words for Sanskrit in their local vocabulary and some don't have.

Tamil as a language has loan words and has a rhythmical lyrical quality similar to Sanskrit (not sure how to word it).

One of the first things the dravidians did was to remove the loan words and all connections to Sanskrit in language. They gave various reasons like not suited to present times, easy on printing etc nonsense.

Later after gaining power made sure Tamil as the language remains a main issue. >1-2 Generations of Tamilians don't know even today about Sanskrit loan words and close relation to Sanskrit.
This creates a fertile field for these dumeels to claim that no relation to Sanskrit(hence major parts of India).

Thirukkural a Tamil classic is nothing but Manusmriti in the Tamil language. It is exactly the same sequence as Manusmriti and chapters are similar to it.
But with recent corruption and removal of all references by christian folks and now some islamic folks, chnages are in the making to make sure Tamilians are loisng their culture and heritage.


Post 1962 India -china war- JLN did a good thing - said any talk of rebellion against Indian state will be dealt with sternly. dravidians were in the forefront at that time were for leaving Indian union. They changed their tone and accepted Indian union.



Tamil Nadu is the land of Hindu temples for centuries. It is very closely a complete Hindu state. But with the above changes done in the last 100 + years with few generations losing the sense of history, it is easy for dumeels and Lemurians to exercise their stupidity and falsehoods on to youngsters.


It is time to reclaim our sense of history and Tamil pride in its Hinduness.


Key will be awareness of the Sanskrit connections to Tamil, loan words etc. The many Tamil hymns and songs and many others are Sanskrit translations adapted to Tamil people.

____________________________________
same goes for many parts of India-- key will revival of its true history- Hindu culture and its traditions.

--------------------------------------------
NaMo has made "being Hindu is acceptable and uber cool" without creating animosity with others.has given confidence to many other normal Indians.

It is time to grab this period of opportunity to further the true revival of Indian culture and tradtions with its history.


It will take time money and selfless dedications of many Indians. The BIF will do everything to keep a lid on the Indian/Hindu revival after their hard-fought efforts to stop this in the last 100+ years.

will stop here. lot more to write.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Rishi_Tri » 25 May 2019 10:12

Collated numbers on TN from Election Commission website:

Image

BJP was on upward trajectory till 1999.

Govindacharya left in 2000. It may have affected BJP's plan for whole of south barring Karnataka. Just my conjecture based on circumstantial evidence.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby ShyamSP » 25 May 2019 10:22

arshyam wrote:x-posting a few TN-related posts here from the elections thread based on ShyamSP garu's request. This is also a more relevant thread to discuss.


Dhanyavadaalu arshyam garu. Some mattas, asrams, and temples mentioned there are useful for research.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby arshyam » 25 May 2019 10:22

Since we have a lot of new posters now, and we are generally discussing TN history to try to get some understanding of the recent election results, let me share one of my old GDF posts about the evolution of TN's political history. Some of the points and references may be out of date, as this post was made in the aftermath of the Jallikattu issue a few years ago, but the history part is still the same. It's a long post, but I hope people find it useful.

Goes without saying, please point out anything I might have got wrong. Always open to learning.

arshyam wrote:TN is as Hindu as it comes, despite BRF definitions of "south TN" and all its connotations. It's the same "south TN" that celebrates Jallikattu with such vigour and houses the revered Meenakshi temple in Madurai. But events of the past 100 years have taken their toll, let me explain how.

I may ramble about a bit as there are so many events that influenced each other, but I hope it will give enough perspective. Other TN folks, please jump in as you see fit in case I am wrong or didn't explain something correctly. It's a long post, so please bear with me.

Starting with the late 19th/early 20th century, EJ, DK ideologies started trying to spread (back then, it was less EJ, more RC, but in this post, I will use EJ to represent both). It was a time of many new discoveries that we ought to be proud of: the re-discovery of ancient Tamil literature, Indus/Saraswathi valley civilization, Sanskrit studies, etc. But the same time was witness to the utter destruction of Indic education, caste discrimination, and wide spread of colonial English education. These factors provided easy crutches for the colonial admins and EJ types to foster the Dravidian ideology. As we all know, this ideology wasn't of desi origin. But what many don't know is that this ideology actually found less takers in what today is TN than the other southern states (of today). A who's who of the Justice Party roster will show what I am talking about. I am not blaming the other southern states, but stating a fact. The EJ plan was to spread this ideology across the south and break it apart from the motherland.

However, as events played out, only the DK was left of the old Justice party and the movement slowly died out in the other states. In TN, it had gained strength, thanks to some genuine reforms like the struggle against untouchability and caste discrimination. Coupled with the spread of cinema, whose medium was strategically used by the DK/EJ types to spread their message, the Dravidian ideology gained more currency closer to independence. Also, I think it took root more in TN due to the revival of native pride based on the ancient-ness of Tamil. But at the same time, the Congress with its stalwarts like Rajaji, Kamaraj dominated Tamil politics with a very nationalist message. The DK ideology didn't take to politics though they tried - but the seeds were sown and tools like cinema continued to spread the message. Remember, this was restricted to TN now, as the interest died out in the other states. At the same, I would be remiss not to mention that a lot of excellent Hindu mythological and historical films were also made during this time period, and many were huge hits. And lots of people didn't take kindly to Periyar's open insult of Hindu symbols (chappal garland to gods, etc.). So it was not as if the DK ideology had a total monopoly. Hindu dharma was still very strong, though the fraying had started very slowly at the edges.

The first decade after independence saw the linguistic reorganization of states in 1953, which I maintain was a blow against our multilingual societies. This event brought up walls between states that had never existed in history, making a single language monopolize a state. Prior to this, it was common for people to be bilingual or multi-lingual, with knowledge of various languages considered as wealth, and one's mother tongue given pride of place in an emotional sense. Sort of hard to agree with today, but ask your grandparents if possible. My own used to speak various levels of Telugu, since we were based around Madras/Arcot belt, though our mother tongue was Tamil. One branch of the family had Kukke Subramanya (in KA) as the "kula-deivam". But with the state based on language, the education policies were revised to teach only one language in the main, which started acting slowly against multilingual ideas. Naturally, when one cannot understand a language, it's easy to feed false facts, misconceptions, etc. Is it not a coincidence that we're reflecting the same thing on this forum today?

It was the Hindi imposition move of JLN that gave them the next stool to stand on, and the DK (now split into the political DMK, which in '62 under Anna had dropped the separatist plank as well) seized the opportunity. Ironically, the Madras representatives in the Constituent assembly of 1948/49 that had wanted Sanskrit as GoI's official language, which would have made this issue redundant, but events turned out otherwise. It was perhaps the last time south Indians of all linguistic groups (Madras spread across all the southern states back then) had stood together on one issue.

By now, it was well established that Tamil was an ancient language with a wealth of literature, and the DK ideology, while not politically useful, was also quite widespread. And as I mentioned above, the one state one language policy was also established by now, along with the emotional attachment we all have our mother tongues. So when the Hindi rule was supposed to come about, the DMK's protest struck a chord and gained immediate and widespread support. The end result was to retain English, from which all of us are benefitting today in ITvity, etc., but also turned an entire generation of Tamilians against Hindi. It was not Hindi's fault that the politicians chose to play politics, but that's what happened. At the same time, parties like BJS with their "Hindi, Hindu, Hindustan" message didn't help. Note that Sanskrit was no where in the picture back then.

What happened next? In the 1967 elections, the DMK romped into power, and TN was Congress mukht. The Dravidian ideology had won. Tamil got a pride of place, but displaced all other languages, especially Hindi (which I think was as wrong as its imposition). At the same time, people from various states had called TN home, and continued to do so and speak their native languages without issues. In that respect, the Dravidian movement stayed true to its pan-southern ethos, and extended it to linguistic groups from elsewhere in north too. "Vandhavarai vazhavaikkam Tamizhnadu" gained currency (TN provides a livelihood to those who come), Rajinikant being the best example. But Hindi was needlessly demonized. At the same time, the people in the north (of Vindhyas) probably took this as an insult. I may be wrong here, but many folks from the north I have casually spoken to first remark on the anti-Hindi issue when they hear I am from TN. This includes some of my very best friends. No issues with it, but such repeated instances gave me an indication of how TN was perceived up north. Of course, under Madrasis, all southerners had a label attached, but TN was the only state that actually agitated against Hindi, though the feeling was there in other states to varying degrees. Even last month, my cab driver in BLR was complaining how folks speak to him only in Hindi, which he does not understand (no, he is not Tamil).

Anyway, a strong undercurrent was developing against the open atheism of DK and DMK, which included insulting Hindu symbols. MGR probably first sensed it, eventually paving the way for his exit and form the ADMK. The latter made no pretensions of rationalism and atheism, though it claimed Dravidian lineage. Basically, the ADMK sought to bring the Dravidian ideology towards the Indic centre. This was rewarded by the public in the first post-emergency election, when MGR romped home to the CM's chair, and continued to stay there till he died ten years later.

This was also the time of the SL problem, where there was a genuine institutional attack on Tamil speaking people. These Tamils were mostly practising Hindus, and are to this day, but were also prey to the same EJ gang. That the entire SL problem was a manifestation of the EJ ideology (specifically AIT) is another point to keep in mind. But, thanks to the anti-Hindi agitation earlier, the fact that Hindus in SL were being killed were not given much importance in the national mainstream. At best, it was a "Tamil issue" in SL. Indira Gandhi, to her credit, saw it for what it was, and how it would inflame passions in TN. If GoI didn't do anything, it could make things worse, considering how we had intervened in '71. So GoI acted swiftly by arming resistance groups in northern SL, like in '70-71. MGR, having been born in SL, was also emotionally invested in the issue, though he was technically Malayali by birth. But he lent his voice in strong support, and demand that GoI do something about it. Of course, powers larger than us eventually intervened to make the LTTE kill every moderate Tamil outfit and force India to act, again. That was the IPKF debacle, which RG undertook half-heartedly. Perhaps he was afraid of collateral damage given the LTTE's tendency to use women and children in combat, and the resulting protests in TN. Or perhaps he just felt dharmic about attacking women and children from air - at least one could exercise some restraint on the ground. Anyway, we'd never know.

But the DMK saw this as an opportunity to come back to political relevance, and asserted the Tamil identity again. Politicians began to openly hobnob with LTTE in the streets of Madras, much to the fear of the locals. At that time, most SL Tamils began to be looked at with suspicion, as no one knew who belonged to LTTE and who didn't. A few such people were arrested from respectable middle class areas in Madras cementing the fear further. I personally know of one such incident. There were periodic sounds of gunfire in Madras when someone settled scores with someone else. Hard to believe today, but it was quite scary back then. And the fact that our own Army was fighting these people across the sea, with the original SL problem still remaining confused most people. The welcome, or lack of, accorded to the Army when it returned to Madras is still something many of us remember with sadness. It was in this climate that MGR died, and AIADMK split with instability all around. The TINA factor and the Tamil card brought the DMK back into power in '89. Probably the worst period in TN politics, not to mention for the country at large, given the instability in the centre, followed by the BoP crisis.

Then, suddenly, RG was assassinated, right outside Madras. That was the straw that broke the camel's back - RG was well regarded in TN, as he was across the country. Bofors aside, he was seen to be young and dynamic, and had been on good terms with MGR for a long time. His efforts resolve the SL problem also brought him a lot of positive support. And he was killed on TN soil. That one incident ended the LTTE nonsense. Jayalalitha was massively voted into power - she won 225 out of 234 seats, and the DMK itself got 2. That's right, 2. And the rest is history regarding the LTTE in TN. The dreaded 'Q' branch of the TN police went after them with a vengeance and threw them out. Does it mean all such elements were thrown out? No - there will always be some sympathisers, but they were not in the mainstream anymore. The DMK was sent to political wilderness and dropped its open stance. Some elements like Vaiko continued to support the 'Eelam' demand, but in '02 Jaya ensured a long 18 month spell in jail for him under POTA. Ironically, he was part of the ruling NDA then and an MP. No protests, no one cared, beyond the occasional joke: "POTA-la ulla pottuta" (she put him inside under POTA).

During all this time, caste discrimination didn't stop, though it had reduced significantly. But there was now enough literature to support EJ activities, which continued unabated. Except IG in the '70s and RG to an extent in the '80s, and Modi now, GoI has been ambivalent about foreign funding for religious activities. So funds weren't a problem, and the Dravidian ideological political climate provided a cover for these forces to continue to operate. The emotional nature of Tamil people also made them easy targets for manipulation. But at the same time, the majority of people fought back to retain traditions. By fight back, I am not saying andolans or morchas, but simply sticking to our traditions and festivals - which are sufficient to retain the identity. But the political climate made that identity a Tamil identity and not an openly Hindu identity. It was an acceptable compromise as we (the nationalist Tamilians) got to keep our traditions intact, and also due to the fact they were not really mutually exclusive. In fact, these traditions have gained in strength - the Sabarimalai pilgrimage wasn't as big in the '70s as it is today. The crowds at Kumbakonam during Mahamaham have only increased. Visit any city in TN and see how the temples are patronised. Jallikattu and similar sports always start at the local temple. Till 2004. Since then, the EJ problem has "thalaviruchi adirikku", which means has gone out of control. It's a grim fight, but fight we have and will. Jallikattu was attempted to be hijacked, but the good people fought, and won for their customs, however interim it may be. But at least now, the NGO/EJ cat is out of the bag. Hopefully, it will bring some good outcomes regarding the insiduous connections across the NGO/EJ ecosystem. That press conference about Jallikattu and the vested interests behind it SwamyG saar had linked a while ago is instructive. It will get transmitted in the local media. Tughlak, a nationalist-right-of-centre magazine started by Cho in '70, will continue to write about such things from an Indic PoV.

Why am I saying all this? I am saying this to explain away misconceptions about the so-called separatist Tamil, which folks keep writing against, thanks to an agitation against language imposition we did a long time ago. But we are as Indian as anybody else, and bloody proud of it. Else, one would not have seen the following (not exhaustive by any means, just a few examples), who stay unforgotten till date:

1. Veerapandiya Kattabomman - killed by the British in 1799, probably one of the most inspirational legends in recent Tamil history
2. Marudu Pandiya, declaring independence of Jamboo dwipa from English domination, 1801.
3. The mutiny by our Army in Vellore, 1806
4. Subramaniya Bharati -
Muppadhu kodi mugamudayal,
Enil maipuram ondrudayal,
Ival Seppumozhi padhinetudayal,
Enil Sindhanai ondrudayal
- "This Bharatmaata has thirty crores of faces! But her body is one. She speaks eighteen languages! But her thought is one."
4. Netaji, outside of WB, is perhaps best known in TN. Please read up on the locals who supported the INA and its formation in Malaya - they were plantation labourers who were taken from TN.

I hope I don't have to cite folks like a certain Mr. Kalam to buttress my point further.

Overall, many TN folks are tired of having to defend our culture from EJ types and brainwashed Dravidian ideologues, but when they see MSM focussing only on the extremists (which are there in any society - ask me about BLR's goons from 2 months ago) or more of the same from a different angle, i.e. language, the response becomes, "Give me a break. I will fight for my culture with or without your help". That's what has got the chaddis of many people in a twist - they can't seem to understand this aspect. Modi got a lot of support as he showed some understanding of this underlying issue - hence his tacit support to the GoTN where needed. It hasn't gone unnoticed. But for once, if GoI were to openly step up and provide a narrative (think of covering fire for an analogy), it will help nationalist folks in TN get more organised. This is the same picture elsewhere in the country, but thanks to 10 years of UPA, TN is under greater pressure from EJ elements.

Lastly, and I will stop here, this song captures how we view ourselves in the Indian context: The Indian identity and Tamil identity are one and the same. Tamizha Tamizha From Roja - Lyrics and English Translation - YT
Last edited by arshyam on 25 May 2019 12:43, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby arshyam » 25 May 2019 10:28

Rishi_Tri wrote:Collated numbers on TN from Election Commission website:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D7Yr60EXsAALQuX.png

BJP was on upward trajectory till 1999.

Govindacharya left in 2000. It may have affected BJP's plan for whole of south barring Karnataka. Just my conjecture based on circumstantial evidence.

1999 was the aftermath of the Coimbatore blasts, which tried to target Advani. CP Radhakrishnan of the BJP won CBE seat in the 99 election (the same gent lost badly to the Communists :eek: in this election).

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Paul » 25 May 2019 10:45

Karthi won in Shivganga per officil CongI list.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Rishi_Tri » 25 May 2019 11:07

Thank You arshyam Ji for the post above. Read every word of it.

Personally, this Hindi - Non Hindi is not as big as an issue as it is called out to be. Being North Indian, Chennai was my first Karm Bhoomi and my experience has been very different i.e., pleasant. And I am not talking about today but years ago.

I see TN, as cultural pole of Sanatan India with Madurai and Rameshwaram being the garbh grihams. In fact hordes of North Indians travel to shrines in TN. Anyway, hope to one day go back to Karm Bhoomi and repay my debts of Sanatan Dharma by helping its political re-acceptance.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby syam » 25 May 2019 11:13

Who funds EJs? It's not exactly random funding. There must be some serious motive rather than spreading the gospel?

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Lilo » 25 May 2019 11:51

ramana wrote:Chetak the vote share in Kerala tells it's own story.
BJP got 22% vote share. This means 1 in 5 Kerala voting public supported BJP.
And Hindus are about 50% in Kerala.
In other words about 1 in 2 Hindus voted.
In what alternate universe would we imagine this?


Kerala has changed.
The other Hindus voted to remove LDF.
That's the big picture.

End of Communist rule in Kerala.
Pinarayi Vijayan has lost the mandate.
He will cling on but he has no popular support.

So I believe Kerala has spoken. And its against Left.

Let me correct this here since we have the numbers on ECI website.
BJP got 12.5% vote in Kerala as per ECI.
So actually only 1 in 4 Hindus voted for BJP in Kerala.

So Kerala Hindus "choose not to be polarized by dutty outsiders" and remain secular in the embrace of the Congress.
NSS to vote for Shashi Tharoor in Thiruvananthapuram
DECCAN CHRONICLE. | CYNTHIA CHANDRAN
Published Apr 17, 2019, 5:43 am IST

Thiruvananthapuram: Congress candidate Shashi Tharoor who is facing a formidable challenge from NDA’s Kummanam Rajasekharan here can heave a sigh of relief that the Thiruvananthapuram NSS taluk union has decided to support him.

Tharoor who is trying for a hatrick here has encountered opposition from the Sabarimala devotees who have ranged behind Kummanam. When the local Congress leaders realised the differences of opinion within the NSS taluk union on supporting Tharoor, they initiated damage control measures with taluk union president M. Sangeeth Kumar. The union had held namajapa rallies in front of the secretariat when the Sabarimala protest was at its height and Sangeeth Kumar was in the forefront of the agitation.

“The NSS leadership had issues with Tharoor at a personal level. But that has been settled and the local Congress leadership took efforts to ensure that all the traditional NSS votes go in favour of Tharoor. The local karayogams and vanitha samajams were briefed from Perunna on Friday,” said a senior Congress leader.

NSS general secretary Sukumaran Nair planned to convey to all the 5,600 odd karayogams across the state that the UDF will come back to power in the 2021 Assembly elections, it is learnt. The NSS has realised the BJP’s gameplan in not coming up with an ordinance on Sabarimala before the elections. However, the BJP camp is confident that Kummanam will secure the the traditional UDF votes because of the Sabarimala protest.

As per the 2011 census, Hindus constitute 66.46 percent of the total population of Thiruvananthapuram district, Christians 19.1 percent and Muslims 13.72 percent. NSS voters come to 26 percent as per the statistics provided by the BJP leadership.
Thiruvanathapuram voters as counselled by "caste elders" like Sukumaran Nair "realized the gameplan" of BJP that is why they voted for Tharoor ji in contrast to a person like "Kummanam Rajasekharan".

Tharoor ji looks his part of the suave wife killer who can be trusted to fight for Sabarimala as counselled by "caste elders".... in contrast how does sdre Kummanam look like hain ji ?
He looks like the dutty BJP gujarati "Gaud Saraswat" snake he is.

Sachin wrote:
Do they see Rahul ji voicing on behalf on Sabarimala in center - when congress didnt even put the word Sabarimala in their manifesto?

Rahul-ji had given the permission for the KL KPCC to take their own judgmental call on how to deal with the issue. And recently he also said that, he may have his ideas on the Sabari Mala temple and its belief system, but ultimately he would leave it to Keralites. It was the BJP who took up the issue big time in KL, and their promise was that if they win in the central government they will fix the issue. People of KL may now ask back; BJP has won big time in the country are they going to fix the issue now? Or was the deal that 20 Lok Sabha MPs have to come from KL, and then BJP *may* try to resolve the Sabari Mala temple issues. All said and done soon the commies and Congress is now going to stand beside the people and ask BJP Govt at the centre on what they plan to do now? And if BJP Govt at centre just brushes aside the issue, then for next time elections BJP in Kerala would continue to remain with 0 seats.

In Rahul Mehta's voice

Sachin ji,
please SMS your BJP state elected representative from parliament to convey this message to the LokSabha- that "you have realized the gameplan" of BJP.
Ohh i forgot you dont have a BJP representative from Kerala who can convey this to BJP leadership in the LokSabha :rotfl: !

Some one said "proof is in tasting"
For some here though salt may look like salt feel like salt shine like salt even taste like salt a thousand times- but they cant believe its salt .
So the salt has to prove its taste for the 1001th time before it can be called Salt.
Because Sukumaran Nair claims that its not salt - and "NSS "caste elders" have realized the gameplan of this "Gaud Saraswat" Salt" :roll:
Last edited by Lilo on 25 May 2019 13:01, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby arshyam » 25 May 2019 12:02

chandrasekaran wrote:The main issue however is that for reasons unknown to me, they seem to maintain such a low profile.

Taking this discussion forward, does anyone know what could be the reason for the low profile?

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby ramana » 25 May 2019 12:03

If not already done please translate or give a gist of this video

https://twitter.com/bshukla26/status/11 ... 30528?s=19

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby arshyam » 25 May 2019 12:06

chandrasekaran wrote:In fact this should go beyond Aadheenams, modern hindu organizations like Akshaya Patra, Iskon, Ramakrishna Matham, some of the northie Sri Vaishnav and Shaivaite sects must be encouraged to set up their branches and actively encouraged to do visible social service in the name of Hindu religion. Tamil must be the language however. This is quite easy as next to Sanskirt, Tamil perhaps has the largest corpus of Hindu literature, This needs to happen for the next 3-4 years and BJP's association must be overt towards the end of 4th year in time for 2023.

Most of these orgs do try, I remember buying a Tamil book about the Akshardham temple in, of all the places, the Delhi Akshardham. But their ground presence within TN is not great.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Lilo » 25 May 2019 12:08

BJP wins 0 seats in Kerala, Sabarimala storm showers seats on Cong instead
The party got 12.9 percent of the vote share, just two percent up from 10.8 in 2014

The BJP got 12.9 percent of the vote share, just two percent up from 10.8 percent in 2014 when there was a palpable Modi wave across the country. Only in one constituency did the BJP even manage to come second - in the capital city of Thiruvananthapuram.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby arshyam » 25 May 2019 12:42

krisna wrote:Tamil as a language has loan words and has a rhythmical lyrical quality similar to Sanskrit (not sure how to word it).

This is very true, and have heard from multiple people that because of this, they were able to learn Sanskrit faster. I don't know how to say it either, but your definition conveys the point.

krisna wrote:Later after gaining power made sure Tamil as the language remains a main issue. >1-2 Generations of Tamilians don't know even today about Sanskrit loan words and close relation to Sanskrit.
This creates a fertile field for these dumeels to claim that no relation to Sanskrit(hence major parts of India).

Irony is that when Sanskrit was widely used, Tamil and other languages only grew. Many more younger languages branched off and started to thrive. But in TN, there is an irrational fear about Sanskrit overwhelming Tamil, when the truth was Tamil grew when Sanskrit was also around.

I think this fear is simply carried forward from Hindi based on ignorance. While I can understand the fear of Hindi, as a westphalian state ends up imposing a single language and India is perhaps unique in trying to deal with those contradictions, I don't see why one should fear and oppose Sanskrit.

krisna wrote:Thirukkural a Tamil classic is nothing but Manusmriti in the Tamil language. It is exactly the same sequence as Manusmriti and chapters are similar to it.
But with recent corruption and removal of all references by christian folks and now some islamic folks, chnages are in the making to make sure Tamilians are loisng their culture and heritage.

Dr Nagaswamy explains it very well, and in subsequent talks, takes these dravidians to the cleaners. Well worth a watch.


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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby syam » 25 May 2019 13:09

For some strange reason, brits never bothered with these hindu/tamil pride stuff, some how managed it fine. Imagine Her Majesty learning Tamil to impress tamils and then building Madras city.

Only Mudiji and his dirty northee gujjus have to do all kinds of circus to make any inroads into tamil heartland.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Vinu » 25 May 2019 13:26

One strategy I would recommend to debunk cooked up historical theories like AIT, Akbar the great etc is provide correct history in CBSE books immediately. Along with proper space for Tamil Kings and Emperors as well.

Thanks to TN Uniform System of school education act 2010 all middle class and above parents are preferring CBSE / ICSE schools than state board private schools. Opening up of Navodaya schools with merit based admission every district will help a lot. Many of TN private schools are owned by EJs or DMK politicians. This should be broken.
RTE should be fixed as well.

The will ensure rightly educated first time Dharmic voters for 2024

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Karan M » 25 May 2019 13:29

If you fix school books, automatically people will prefer to vote for a nationalist govt than a lefty parasitical one.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby UlanBatori » 25 May 2019 13:48

Massive task ahead if BeeJayPee is to rise from 12.4% vote to a winning level in Malloostan. It can happen if CONG comes to power in next assembly election and the disgust with the typical CONGi corruption turns into another Vimochana Samaram. As seen above, NSS etc decided to back the winner, because that is the only chance of survival. They will be praising themselves now because they are not isolated come next assembly election.

People need to do careful research on WHY voters support Cong vs. CPM or vice versa, in order to see how to transfer the cong votes. Both Cong and BJP are Hindi-belt based: why is one able to attract votes in KL vs. the other?

Also, what happens if RaGa is dislodged from INC throne? Imagine if they brought in a fairly young and energetic new face who learns well from NaMo lessons and has an IQ > 1.
Point is, there may be a role for a party that is a hybrid of INC and BJP nationalist and anti-CPM sentiment, that grows from the South. Centrist in religious issues. That would provide a serious alternative to BJP come 2024 and beyond.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby uskumar » 25 May 2019 14:01

One factor about present position is demographics. Tn and kl are barely replacing their population. That too in states where there is lot of population travels a for work. Bjp will get it's shot at these States in 10 years when the immigrant ni population is 15 to 20 percent. Till then it will have to keep asking RSS to EJs at bay. One more issue that comes to my mind is systematic murder and extermination of bjp and RSS leaders in both these States. Surely this is no coincidence. It needs urgent investigation whether forces from abroad whether EJs or IS are funding and providing ground work like intelligence and target selection.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby uskumar » 25 May 2019 14:15

UlanBatori wrote:Point is, there may be a role for a party that is a hybrid of INC and BJP nationalist and anti-CPM sentiment, that grows from the South. Centrist in religious issues. That would provide a serious alternative to BJP come 2024 and beyond.

Sir, I would love for that to happen but has any si party shown that ambition. No. Take for example tn areas bordering AP up to Chennai. It has about 20 percent Telugu origin people which could have been a base for tdp. Have they ever tried to cultivate their base. same in areas bordering AP and Karnataka also.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Venky36 » 25 May 2019 14:25

TN is a short while away from joining the national mainstream. The no of young educated tamils are seeking an alternative but don't find it in admk-bjp combine. It needs a younger progressive leadership to head the front. 5 yrs hence this set will grow. Don't forget that Swami Vivekananda found his first sponsors in TN.
Kerala like Bengal will require decimation of left for a nationalist party to gain ground. For too long in both states we have had dysfunctional parties/combines which are status quoist and play into EJ hands

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby nachiket » 25 May 2019 14:29

The low vote share of the BJP in KL does not look problematic if you consider that there was tactical voting in many of the constituencies to defeat the left. Cong was perceived (correctly I guess) to have the best chance of beating the commies. KL is only a setback from which the BJP can recover with the right efforts.

The decimation in TN is far more worrisome. Things look bleak there.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Aditya_V » 25 May 2019 15:26

Venky36 wrote:TN is a short while away from joining the national mainstream. The no of young educated tamils are seeking an alternative but don't find it in admk-bjp combine. It needs a younger progressive leadership to head the front. 5 yrs hence this set will grow. Don't forget that Swami Vivekananda found his first sponsors in TN.
Kerala like Bengal will require decimation of left for a nationalist party to gain ground. For too long in both states we have had dysfunctional parties/combines which are status quoist and play into EJ hands

I live in Chennai and was wondering how Stalin became suddenly so popular. Yes there is core secular types and there is drought and then it has it hit me.

TN has got addicted to freebee culture since 2006 colour TV mixer grinder etc. To Pongal 1000 Rs bonus. Even many Audi owners have taken advantage. So I think the main factor was a large section of the population thought they were going to get NYAY money. That has screwed the TN results. Ha ha so its greed of a large section of the population which probably got the result with many even earning 40k thinking they will get NYAY money. This explains why all UPA candidates suceeded but DMK could not demolish AIDMK in bye elections.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Aditya_V » 25 May 2019 15:34

Guys I am now fairly convined its the past 2006 colour TV mixer Grinder, 10000Rs flood relief in 2016, 1000 Rs State Govt pongal bonus in 2019. Past education loan write off etc The public in TN got majorily greedily based on these experiences and have voted with thier greed.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby UlanBatori » 25 May 2019 18:07

Sounds reasonable to me... :)

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby darshan » 25 May 2019 18:13

Writing off education loans is an interesting point as I see many coming to US use that route of not worrying about paying back such loans. I have always wondered why govt or bank gives them out to begin with if it can't be recovered. But giving them out and forgetting them both can be for election votes. Does educational loan fall on central, state, or both governments? Are the borrowers required to put something as collateral? What prevents students from just taking money and run? Before aadhar, it would have been practically impossible to recover it back.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby arvin » 25 May 2019 18:57

Since Rae bareli will be the next target for AS blizzard, PV or SG will also shift to kerala. With 3 congi heavy weights there and state itself with 45% minorities, con system will make kerala their new home i feel.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby KL Dubey » 25 May 2019 18:58

There was a post on Jagan Reddy conversion to Hinduism. I tried to dig into this.

It seems this is based on the following video, which apparently is not about conversion but regarding some homam he did for AP special status back in April:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riSSsErtpKo

Folks in Andhra, what do you think of the situation?

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby darshan » 25 May 2019 19:15

India speaks daily also touched the subject of CBN and Jagan:
https://youtu.be/VZvRtMuZnMM

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby MurthyG » 25 May 2019 20:14

May be OT here, I just noticed something as I was reading the Swarajya article https://swarajyamag.com/politics/tamil-nadu-five-years-of-anti-modi-propaganda-has-worked on how five years of anti-Modi propaganda worked to defeat the TsuNaMo in TN.
The BBC started channels in 2017 in Telugu and Gujarati (which look very professional). I am wondering if this is a trend we will see accelerate in the future. Perhaps it is the realization that English media in India is not effective to push the western POV and push their pet themes through these channels to an audience made pliable through the insidious RTE effect on education system.
It is time to reclaim all of the media space for thoroughly Indic channels, especially in Indian languages.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby darshan » 25 May 2019 20:22

BBC regional language observation is correct one. Lot of people had resorted to ignoring English one as propaganda one. BBC was heavily pushing youtube feeds of anyone watching anything Hindu. To the point where one search on chalisa would bring BBC Hindi or Gujarati in your face constantly. It started six months ago and now after elections over the behavior has gone too.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Aditya_V » 25 May 2019 21:04

Guys think about the assembly elections in Gujrat dec 2017, Karnataka, MP , Chattisgarh and Rajastan and GE 2019 in these states. All these states have one theme , outragous INC income support and Loan waiver promises before Assembly elections, no delivery on these promises by INC post election and electorate coming with a vegence destroying INC in General Election since they felt cheated. I belive in TN no one will admit it but a large section of the people voted UPA expecting 72k a year including middle class. Thats why the same wave did not take place in the bye elections.

Plus remember TN has the experience of free colour under MK, mixer grinder and plenthora of free schemes under JJ, Rs 10k of Central flood relief funds delivered by State before Assembly elections in 2016. Rs 1000 for Pongal in 2019. And not much experience with INC so the 72K temptation would have been huge. The other states fell for the INC temptation in assembly elections and have experience of non delivery of promises. TN has experience of leaders deliverying on Freebies. So this is main reason why TN results divereged from the national trend. Not some Stalin brillance or memes, then 22 bye elections should have been at his feet. It is this 72k has made people just vote blindly whether it communist or any one else.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Rishi_Tri » 25 May 2019 21:20

Aditya_V wrote:Guys think about the assembly elections in Gujrat dec 2017, Karnataka, MP , Chattisgarh and Rajastan and GE 2019 in these states. All these states have one theme , outragous INC income support and Loan waiver promises before Assembly elections, no delivery on these promises by INC post election and electorate coming with a vegence destroying INC in General Election since they felt cheated. I belive in TN no one will admit it but a large section of the people voted UPA expecting 72k a year including middle class. Thats why the same wave did not take place in the bye elections.

Plus remember TN has the experience of free colour under MK, mixer grinder and plenthora of free schemes under JJ, Rs 10k of Central flood relief funds delivered by State before Assembly elections in 2016. Rs 1000 for Pongal in 2019. And not much experience with INC so the 72K temptation would have been huge. The other states fell for the INC temptation in assembly elections and have experience of non delivery of promises. TN has experience of leaders deliverying on Freebies. So this is main reason why TN results divereged from the national trend. Not some Stalin brillance or memes, then 22 bye elections should have been at his feet. It is this 72k has made people just vote blindly whether it communist or any one else.


If it were so, BJP would have won every seat last time around as it said that Rs 15 lac shall be deposited in every account after bringing back black money.


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