Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

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SwamyG
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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby SwamyG » 31 May 2019 17:58

Gus wrote:It is not for anybody to decide to arbitrarily ban JK. It is somebody's cultural practice. If you don't like it, you are welcome to not participate or cheer.

It was not catch 22 etc. State ordinance route was proposed by N.Sitaraman in Jan 2016 itself, when their attempt to let JK happen was quashed by court. It was JJ who did not pursue it.

Whose failure it is that NOBODY knows about this?

Saar, laws have interfered in cultural practices :mrgreen: Constitution saar. I am hearing there might have been some thing going on between Modi and JJ.

BTW, do you remember JJ had issued GO on animal sacrifices? Then she had to withdraw.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby khatvaanga » 31 May 2019 20:12

There seems to be an interesting phenomenon playing out in AP, too early to judge if it is in passing or if it will sustain into something tangible. Last few days and especially last two days telugu WA has been flooding with images of jagan with bible next to him, how his top officers are all RoL reddys, how AP has now "to be saved" etc. I see this as beginning of reverse polarization by the majority in AP. Again very early in the process to even call it that, but if it does sustain then we may see AP as the new WB [with RoL instead of RoP]. It could give the foothold for a hindu / dharmic party to consolidate over the next few months / years.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Gus » 01 Jun 2019 23:11

Kashi wrote:GusJi, could you fashion a response for say when one points out all the developmental projects undertaken in TN by the Modi sarkaar, such as doubling, gauge conversion and electrification of the many railway lines that vsunderji outlined in his posts in the Railway dhaga or the highway projects that in implementation, award or planning stages.


dumeel response: why do we need bullet train when farmers are dying. Is this the digital India?

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby srin » 02 Jun 2019 10:13

WTH ?
https://www.news18.com/news/india/centre-issues-clarification-on-draft-education-plan-as-stalin-says-no-space-for-hindi-in-blood-of-tamilians-2168551.html
The clarification came after political parties in Tamil Nadu, including the DMK, strongly opposed the three language formula's continuation and said it was tantamount to "thrusting" Hindi on the state's people.

The Tamil Nadu government said it would continue with the two-language formula, seeking to cool frayed tempers.

While DMK chief MK Stalin dubbed the move as ‘throwing stones at a beehive’, DMK leader T Siva said the Centre was playing with fire with such a decision.

Besides the DMK, the CPI and BJP's ally in the Lok Sabha polls, the PMK, also alleged that the recommendation on the three language formula was "imposition of Hindi" and wanted scrapping it.

AMMK leader TTV Dhinakaran said, "Imposing Hindi on non-Hindi speaking states will destroy pluralism. This would make non-Hindi speakers second class citizens."


My childhood was irreparably scarred and the country's pluralism destroyed because I had English, Computers, Physical Education, etc thrust on me :roll:

I studied in BLR in Karnataka state syllabus long ago and we had English medium of instruction, with Kannada, Hindi and then Sanskrit from 8-12 (that's four languages). I don't think anyone really thought it was thrust on them. So why is TN special ?

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Theeran » 02 Jun 2019 10:24

Three language is good but it should be English, state language and any other language from other states. Schools cannot afford to have classes for every language. So the third language can be whatever the majority chooses.

With the two language now in TN, many students end up not learning Tamil. They choose Hindi, Sanskrit, french, German.

Central is unnecessarily playing into the hands of the dmk parties. It was just a draft and with center's clarification they will claim a victory.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Krita » 02 Jun 2019 10:33

Dumeels have a problem with everyone.Anti north India stand is just for the optics. They are really anti-outsider. Karunanidhi had threatened then Kerala Chief minister EK Nayanar that the Keralites in Tamilnadu will be thrown out if mullah periyar is not resolved in Tamilnadu's favor. A dumeel in my office in Delhi was happily explaining about the merits of South India as a separate country. The irony is that the dumeel is a Andhra Naidu settled in Chennai and working in Delhi. Dumeels want Kerala,Karnataka and Andhra in their modern day Kumari Kandam for "water".Else, Dravidanadu will starve to death. The dumeels are no longer funny , govt must take stringeny action against these rumour mongers. Kerala left, mullah Evangelical, Pravasi Ltte nexus are funding the dumeels in their break India project.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby williams » 02 Jun 2019 11:12

Hindi is still one of 22 scheduled languages, it still did not get the status of a national language in the constitution. It is an unnecessary debate that the politicians in the south want to divide north from the south and also derail the agenda of the new central govt.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby darshan » 02 Jun 2019 22:46

Sathya sarini reality: https://youtu.be/FS3d9EMQgCo

On a separate note:
https://www.opindia.com/2019/06/kerala- ... 19-minors/
Kerala: 61 year old madarsa teacher arrested for sexually assaulting over 19 minors
Yusuf picks out victims who are less than 10 years old to ensure that the crime isn't reported

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby TKiran » 03 Jun 2019 09:26

The BJP is trying to impose Hindi in tamilnadu.



The formula is already decided in 60s that there will be two languages compulsory for tamilnadu. English and Tamil. Now BJP wants to make 3 languages compulsory, indirectly imposing Hindi.

Whereas it's definitely a good policy to make 3 languages compulsory for Hindi speaking states, as Hindi is a "కలగాపులగం" language of "sanskritised Rajasthani", "sanskritised Avadhi", "sanskritised Braj", "sanskritised Urdu", in fact I would recommend "4 languages compulsory" for dialects of Hindi (Marathi, Gujarati, Punjabi)

But why is BJP insisting on imposing Hindi on Tamilnadu?

My answer is that BJP believes in Aryan invasion theory. That North Indians are Aryan and south Indians are Dravidians. The onus is on the North Indians to discard Aryan Superiority theory, as the Tamilians already discarded Aryan Superiority theory, they feel proud of their Tamilian identity and also feel that all indians have been living in this sacred land and the same philosophy and thought process exists throughout India for millennia together.

As long as this Aryan Superiority theory is believed by the North Indians, the alienation of Tamilians will continue...

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Karthik S » 03 Jun 2019 09:31

TKiran, I don't know if yours is a parody account. But your posts are beyond ridiculous.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby TKiran » 03 Jun 2019 09:57

Karthik S wrote:TKiran, I don't know if yours is a parody account. But your posts are beyond ridiculous.

Karthik S if you have anything to refute, please do so, I would be glad to correct myself, we are not in timesnow debate, that you can shout me down and prove your point that "learning Hindi is good for Tamils and it has to be imposed to decolonise"

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Sachin » 03 Jun 2019 10:08

TKiran wrote:But why is BJP insisting on imposing Hindi on Tamilnadu?

The BJP and GoI has already clarified on this issue and this being a "draft policy" it is not going to be rolled out soon. All it did was to give a chance for folks like DMK to show case their love for Tamil language and identity. The main stream media would make a big hue and cry of this, but this too would pose. By the way I did saw a troll/meme in Tamil. Some one is asking Stalin why did Mu.Ka gave such a name to his son, as the name is not even remotely connected to Tamil Nadu, her culture or identity.

williams wrote:Hindi is still one of 22 scheduled languages, it still did not get the status of a national language in the constitution. It is an unnecessary debate that the politicians in the south want to divide north from the south and also derail the agenda of the new central govt.

I tend to agree with you. Parties like DMK are just waiting for some excuse for rabble rousing, and I see that main stream media is also actively encouraging such rebellions (?). But all said and done - Hindi is the national language of India myth should be broken completely. It would only help people from Northern India and South India in the long run. That Hindi is just an official language, and there are many other official languages as well needs to get more coverage.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Karthik S » 03 Jun 2019 10:34

TKiran wrote:
Karthik S wrote:TKiran, I don't know if yours is a parody account. But your posts are beyond ridiculous.

Karthik S if you have anything to refute, please do so, I would be glad to correct myself, we are not in timesnow debate, that you can shout me down and prove your point that "learning Hindi is good for Tamils and it has to be imposed to decolonise"


Sorry, it doesn't work that way, you can't post nonsense like BJP believes in AIT etc and ask others refute your claim. No point in engaging in logical reasoned discussions with specimens like you.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby TKiran » 03 Jun 2019 10:53

^^^^except for a few deracinated Tamilians like you, entire Tamilnadu believes "BJP believes in Aryan invasion theory". That's why they don't get votes. And raking up already debated and finally settled (decades ago) issue of "only two languages compulsory for Tamilnadu and no Hindi imposition" reinforces such belief.

in the last 7 decades no Hindi belt, and dialect belt of Maharashtra, Gujarat, Punjab people learnt any south Indian languages it shows the superiority complex of those people.

All they know is one word "ayyo".

I would appreciate BJP if they impose 3 languages compulsory for Hindi belt, 4 languages compulsory for dialect belt. That will win the hearts of the Tamilians.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Karthik S » 03 Jun 2019 11:11

Did you bother to read the draft? It clearly says even NI will have to learn SI language as 3rd language. If I am deracinated Tamilian (who told you I am one BTW?), then DMK should be even more, didn't get it? Who are the trusties of sunshine school in Chennai in which Hindi is thought? All their elite kids will study at posh CBSE schools, learning hindi, while denying same to lower sections of society. BTW hindi votes are welcome apparenty.

Image

I really wonder how many of these partially literate, dumeels and lemurians shouting over rooftops even know tamil literature.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby suryag » 03 Jun 2019 11:35

Tkiran Haryana had Tamil as second language until 2010

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby TKiran » 03 Jun 2019 11:51

That's good to know. Even if the policy failed in 2010, atleast there was an attempt at state level. I was not aware about that.

Haryanvis must be knowing some more words apart from "ayyo" and "lungi".

Earlier there used to be "Telugu" medium schools in Madras, Sri Kanyaka Parameswhari Devasthananam (SKPD) and KTCT for girls. But because of this Hindi imposition issue, they changed the medium of instruction to English, with Telugu as compulsory Second language, but then, that was also diluted later by AIADMK, and Tamil only as second language. Later there were representations from Telugus of Madras and others in Madurai and Coimbatore etc, to reintroduce Telugu, but MGR didn't do anything. But only Jayalalithaa was positive for reintroduction of Telugu as medium of instruction, but could not allocate funds, she asked those who are interested in Telugu medium schools, can do so with private funds. That didn't take off.

Even today, more than 30% of Tamilnadu is Telugus. After Telangana, Madras has become defacto capital city of Andhra. 3 languages compulsory would be good for Telugus, as they can learn English, Tamil and Telugu as those 3 languages, if Hindi is not imposed in CBSE schools.

Still... not imposing 4 languages for "Maharashtra", "Gujarat" and "Punjab" is injustice to Hindi belt, and Andhra, Telangana, Tamilnadu, Karnataka and Kerala, as Marathis​, Gujjus and Punjabis are the biggest Pro-Hindi proponents apart from deracinated Tamilians.

So, after the explanation that Hindi is not compulsory, I have changed my mind, I support this move to make 3 languages compulsory (mother tongue, state language and English) except that 4 languages should be made compulsory for Maharashtra, Gujarat and Punjab.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Magi » 03 Jun 2019 12:32

I am from TN and from my experience i believe people from TN need to learn hindi. Reason being the hardships faced by TN people while travelling to other states and vice versa. However, knowing very well the thinking of the TN people, hindi should not be made a compulsory third language. But, the 3 language system should be made mandatory in all states, including hindi-speaking states. Most of the common people in TN know the importance of hindi and they will choose it as the third language. Many of them had travelled outside the state and faced hardships by not knowing hindi. The other two language should be left as what it is now, tamil and english compulsorily. This is the least risky option available. The centre can only hope that most people of TN choose hindi. Any attempt to make it compulsory will surely backfire.
At the moment, it will be wise to keep it simple, just make one change, that is make a third language compulsory. Let english and tamil be compulsory.
The people of TN believe that tamil language and culture are their pride and rightly so. Any attempt to paint another language or culture as superior will lead to resistance and rejection.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Krita » 03 Jun 2019 14:03

TKiran wrote:That's good to know. Even if the policy failed in 2010, atleast there was an attempt at state level. I was not aware about that.

Haryanvis must be knowing some more words apart from "ayyo" and "lungi".

Earlier there used to be "Telugu" medium schools in Madras, Sri Kanyaka Parameswhari Devasthananam (SKPD) and KTCT for girls. But because of this Hindi imposition issue, they changed the medium of instruction to English, with Telugu as compulsory Second language, but then, that was also diluted later by AIADMK, and Tamil only as second language. Later there were representations from Telugus of Madras and others in Madurai and Coimbatore etc, to reintroduce Telugu, but MGR didn't do anything. But only Jayalalithaa was positive for reintroduction of Telugu as medium of instruction, but could not allocate funds, she asked those who are interested in Telugu medium schools, can do so with private funds. That didn't take off.

Even today, more than 30% of Tamilnadu is Telugus. After Telangana, Madras has become defacto capital city of Andhra. 3 languages compulsory would be good for Telugus, as they can learn English, Tamil and Telugu as those 3 languages, if Hindi is not imposed in CBSE schools.

Still... not imposing 4 languages for "Maharashtra", "Gujarat" and "Punjab" is injustice to Hindi belt, and Andhra, Telangana, Tamilnadu, Karnataka and Kerala, as Marathis​, Gujjus and Punjabis are the biggest Pro-Hindi proponents apart from deracinated Tamilians.

So, after the explanation that Hindi is not compulsory, I have changed my mind, I support this move to make 3 languages compulsory (mother tongue, state language and English) except that 4 languages should be made compulsory for Maharashtra, Gujarat and Punjab.


Tamilians take pride in their language. First learn to pronounce Pazham not Palam. Purging Sanskrit words and replacing it with English words is Tamil pride. The irony is that all icons (other than terrorist Periyar) are all Tambrams or Not ethnic Tamilians. Many people in Kerala especially in central districts can speak Hindi thanks to the migration from Bihar, Orissa and Bengal. In Ernakulam even the bus boards are in Hindi and Bengali. Nobody cries Mallu pride or gets offended seeing that.
Last edited by Krita on 03 Jun 2019 14:09, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby prahaar » 03 Jun 2019 14:08

The irony is that all icons (other than terrorist Periyar) are all Tambrams or Not ethic Tamilians.


What sort of ethnic Tamilians are you referring to and Tamil Brahmins not being Tamilians? There is no evidence to substantiate such a claim.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Krita » 03 Jun 2019 14:12

prahaar wrote:
The irony is that all icons (other than terrorist Periyar) are all Tambrams or Not ethic Tamilians.


What sort of ethnic Tamilians are you referring to and Tamil Brahmins not being Tamilians? There is no evidence to substantiate such a claim.

Tambrams were driven out during the Periyar era tyranny.
Dumeels have no right to feel proud about them.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby komal » 03 Jun 2019 14:54

Is there any role the central government can play in providing drinking water to Chennai as AIDMK and DMK seem to be unable to solve the problem.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Magi » 03 Jun 2019 15:00

Tamilians take pride in their language. First learn to pronounce Pazham not Palam. Purging Sanskrit words and replacing it with English words is Tamil pride. The irony is that all icons (other than terrorist Periyar) are all Tambrams or Not ethnic Tamilians. Many people in Kerala especially in central districts can speak Hindi thanks to the migration from Bihar, Orissa and Bengal. In Ernakulam even the bus boards are in Hindi and Bengali. Nobody cries Mallu pride or gets offended seeing that


Your claim that all icons are from a particular community is irrelevant. In the latter posts you claim that these community people are driven away from TN. Even after these so called iconic community people left TN, the GDP of TN is second largest in India. TN has one of the highest living standards. This shows that each person from TN has made what TN it is, in terms of living standards. These so called iconic community does not alone make TN what it is, they may be one of the communities which contributed to TN's status. I do not claim that current TN is the best we can think of. It has lot of scope for improvement. I agree that the minds of TN people have been manipulated by successive regimes and anti-hindu groups. Also, to some extent tamil pride is over done.
Every community has its own talents and should be respected for whatever talent they have and the job they do. Categorizing them as upper or lower community just because one iconic community believes that whatever they do is the best job is incorrect. A society needs all kinds of work(carpenter, weaver, farmer., etc) to develop. Every hard working person should be respected irresspective of what may be the nature of his job. Exactly this categorization and superiority mentality has what has made people of TN hate this so called iconic community.
The political parties and non-hindu groups in TN have made the people hate BJP by associating BJP with this so called iconic community. Unless BJP gets rid of this opinion in people's mind that it is a party supporting a particular iconic community's mindset, it is difficult for it to make inroads in TN. This is the root of BJP's problems in TN.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Bart S » 03 Jun 2019 15:47

komal wrote:Is there any role the central government can play in providing drinking water to Chennai as AIDMK and DMK seem to be unable to solve the problem.


Setting up of desalination plants on an emergency basis would be a good move.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Sridhar K » 03 Jun 2019 15:54

Magi
Your last point and posting the WhatsApp forward that came today in my school group. A translation of Tony Josephs farticle in the Hindu from 2017 on how genetics is settling the debate on AIT and why Brahmins and BJP are worried. This is being rehashed today with Tamil translation push the narrative further. The other narrative I heard is that BJP is funding caste Hindus (nadar Gounder etc) outfits and encouraging attocities against lower castes.

*தி இந்து நாளிதழ் கட்டுரை* ஒவ்வொரு பிராமணின் வயிற்றிலும் புளியை கரைத்து ஒவ்வொரு பிராமணனும் Bjp காரனும் திட்டித்தீர்க்கும் பெயர்கள் . . .
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ஏன் ?? எதனால் ?? வாருங்கள் பார்ப்போம்

*Richard Martin மற்றும் Tony Joseph இந்தப் பெயர் உலகில் உள்ள வரலாற்று ஆய்வாளர்களும் அறிஞர்களும் தலையில் தூக்கி வைத்துக் கொண்டாடும் பெயர்கள்.*
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Professor Richard Martin மற்றும் Tony Joseph உலகப்புகழ்பெற்ற Oxford பல்கலைக்கழகத்தின் வரலாறு தொல்லியல் மற்றும் மரபணுவியல் (genetical) துறையின் பேராசிரியர்கள் . .
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*இவரின் ஆராய்ச்சி முடிவுகள் மற்றும் ஆய்வுக் கட்டுரைகள் பல நாட்டவர்களின் அடிப்படை சித்தாந்தங்களை தகர்த்து எறிந்திருக்கிறது . . . .*
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நேற்று முன்தினம் இவருடைய குழுவினர் கடந்த நான்கு ஆண்டுகளாக . . .
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*உலகில் மனிதன் தோன்றியது எங்கே ?? ஆசியாவின் பூர்வ குடிகள் யார் ? இந்தியாவின் மற்றும் அமெரிக்காவின் ஆதி மக்கள் யார் ??*

என்று *இந்திய துணைக்கண்டம் மற்றும் ஈரான் ஈராக் அமெரிக்கா ஆப்கானிஸ்தான் பாகிஸ்தான் பர்மா மலேசியா நேபாளம் பங்களாதேசம் ஆகிய நாடுகளில் மக்களிடம் லட்சக்கணக்கான மரபணுக்களை ஆராய்ச்சி செய்தனர் . .*

இந்தியாவில் மட்டும்
16500 க்கும் மேற்பட்ட மரபணுக்கள் ஆராய்ச்சி செய்தனர்
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அந்த ஆராய்ச்சி முடிவுகள் நேற்று முன்தினம் வெளியிட்டனர்
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*அந்த ஆய்வறிக்கை தான் இந்தியாவில் உள்ள ஒவ்வொரு பிராமணின் வயிற்றிலும் புளியை கரைத்திருக்கிறது*
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அப்படி என்ன விஷயம் ??
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இந்தியாவுக்குள் நாடோடிகளான ஆரியர்கள் மாடுகளோடு ஈராக் ஈரான் வழியாக ஆப்கானிஸ்தானில் நுழைந்து இந்தியாவில் பரவினர் என்றும்
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அப்படி *சிந்துசமவெளி நாகரிகம் அழியும் தருவாயில் இருந்தது அந்த நேரத்தில் தான் ஆரியர்கள் உள்ளே வந்தார்கள் அது சரியாக ரிக் வேதம் எழுதப்பட்ட காலகட்டம்.*
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அப்போது ஒரு இனம் இங்கே வீடுகள் கட்டி நகர நாகரீகத்துடன் வாழ்ந்து வந்தனர்
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அவர்கள் *தமிழர்கள் என்றும் ஆதாரப்பூர்வமாக நிரூபித்தும் இருக்கிறார்கள்.*
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இப்போது நமக்கு சொல்லப்பட்ட பல வரலாறுகள் பொய்யென்றாகிறது
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அதாவது *சிந்துசமவெளி நாகரிகம் ஆரிய நாகரிகம் என்று நமக்கு சொல்லப்பட்டது பொய்.*
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ஏனென்றால் அவர்கள் அப்போது தான் உள்ளேயே வருகிறார்கள் .
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*அப்போது அவர்கள் நாகரிகமடையாத நாடோடிகளாக இருந்தார்கள். அப்படி இருந்தவர்கள் எப்படி நகர நாகரிகத்துடன் வாழ முடியும் ??*
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இரண்டாவது சமஸ்கிருதம் ஆதி மொழி என்று நமக்கு சொல்லிக்கொடுத்தது பொய் . .
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*ஏனென்றால் அதுதான் உலகமொழிகளிலேயே இளைய மொழி என்று இப்போது நிரூபிக்கப்பட்டிருக்கிறது.*
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அதனால் அதற்கு கொடுக்கப்பட்ட செம்மொழி அந்தஸ்து தவறு,
மேலும்

*இப்போது தான் நமக்கு புரிகிறது . . மதுரை கீழடி ஆராய்ச்சியை ஏன் தடுக்கிறார்கள் என்று. . ...*

ஆதிச்ச நல்லூர் அகழ்வாராய்ச்சி ஏன் மூடி மறைக்கப்பட்டுள்ளது என்றும் இப்படி பல கேள்விகளுக்கு இந்த ஆராய்ச்சி முடிவுகள் விடை சொல்கின்றன
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*மனித இனம் ஆப்பிரிக்காவில் தோன்றுகிறது அப்போது இந்திய துணைக்கண்டம் ஆப்பிரிக்காவுடன் ஒட்டியிருந்தது என்றும்*
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கடல்கோள்களால் இந்திய நிலப்பரப்பு பிரிந்தது என்றும் . .
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*இந்த மண்ணில் தமிழர்கள் தான் முதலில் இருந்தனர் என்றும்*
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அவர்கள் முப்பது அல்லது நாப்பதாயிரம் ஆண்டுகளுக்கு முன்பு தோன்றியிருக்கலாம் என்றும்
இந்த ஆராய்ச்சி திட்டவட்டமாக உரக்கச் சொல்லுகிறது
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*இனிமேல் நெஞ்சை நிமிர்த்திச் சொல்லுவோம் இது எங்கள் மண் . . . வந்தேரிகள் வாலாட்டினால் குரல் உயர்த்துவோம் . . . தமிழன் என்பதில் மட்டற்ற பெருமை கொண்டு மார் தட்டுவோம் என்று.....*

***************************அவசியம் அதிகம் ஷேர் செய்யுங்கள்* ******
How genetics is settling the Aryan migration debate

http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/scienc ... 090301.ece

Aditya_V
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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Aditya_V » 03 Jun 2019 15:59

I agree this so called iconic community thought process is stupid. And BS about everyone driven away also incorrect. Being one myself and in no way superior to other human around me I don't know where all Tamil Brahmin driven away comes from. May be the ones like me in TN are the Dumb ones but I think the majority of Tamil Brahmins are very much in TN. I do not agree with 69% reservation though. Like every other community a fair share of the population has migrated due to better job opportunities elsewhere within India and abroad.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Schmidt » 03 Jun 2019 16:28

It is true that Tambrams have been driven away - forcibly ( yet )

But they have had to leave in droves in search of better educational and employment opportunities once these were denied to them by virtue of a 69% reservation policy as well a palpably hostile environment ( where DK gangsters can cut the sacred thread of elderly Brahmin priests with impunity - the very definition of a hate crime , but can these goons go scot free in TN )

And yes , entire generations have emigrated, I can barely find any youngsters in my extended family. The only ones remaining are elderly folks who do not wish to leave their homes. The younger generations couldn't care less about the greta Tamil culture that spews venom against them non stop.

I was watching a Tamil news channel yesterday , and the hostility that some people displayed towards Nirmala Sitaraman and Jaishankar as well as the TOI report that mentioned that there were 9 Brahmins in the Modi cabinet was breathtaking , it was enough to make these guys literally froth in the mouth. One guy was vehemently protesting that these 2 persons were not Tamil at all.

I think Tambrams have not been lynched yet only because of TN is still a part of India.

And , the Tambram population has declined from around 6% in the 1950s to around 2% now. Entire village agraharams now stand deserted as they have moved out of villages to cities.

Even when the last Tambram moves out or passes on , the DK/DMK/VCK will continue to ply their trade. That will never end.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Aditya_V » 03 Jun 2019 16:38

The hate is very much there but I don't think this 6% to 2% population is true. Yes not being land owners or farmers many have moved to cities other parts of India or abroad. 2 child norm etc I think it has been 4% in 1950s to around 3.5% today.

However some of the sooner called superiority attitude shown by some has also been their downfall

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Aditya_V » 03 Jun 2019 17:15

Ok when UPA was governing TN how many castes got representation in the Union Cabinet from DMK. Other than Raja wasn't it all just 1 caste / family? This TN Brahmin victimhood plays right into the DMK trap. One must change the narrative.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Sachin » 03 Jun 2019 17:26

TKiran wrote:Still... not imposing 4 languages for "Maharashtra", "Gujarat" and "Punjab" is injustice to Hindi belt, and Andhra, Telangana, Tamilnadu, Karnataka and Kerala, as Marathis​, Gujjus and Punjabis are the biggest Pro-Hindi proponents apart from deracinated Tamilians.

I don't know about Marathis, but the other groups - especially those who are into business have migrated to all parts of India, and have never hesitated to pick up the local language. Not a big sample to prove my point; but one case I noticed was that in Chennai the Veg. Canteen was run by a Sardar, who could speak the "Chennai Tamil" in all its glory. In the area where I stay, most of the hardware & electrical shops are run by Gujarathis & Marwaris. All speak Kannada quite fluently. But the catch is that, people who find benefits of learning a language would for sure learn it. Keralites have also migrated to pretty much every part of India (and the world), and they too assimilated by learning the local language. But they keep their "Kerala pride" etc. to the Onam celebrations or some functions at the local Malayali Samajam. May be people from TN did not have the need to move to other parts of the country, and found them to be self sufficient.

Magi wrote:I am from TN and from my experience i believe people from TN need to learn hindi. Reason being the hardships faced by TN people while travelling to other states and vice versa.

My gut feeling is that people would learn a language either out of love for that, or out of neccessity. No language can be "imposed" on a populace without them finding some merit in it. See how English was imposed on India. The British used it among themselves, and sooner the Indians who had to work alongside them (or tolerate them) had to pick up that language. And over a period of time, knowledge of English became a kind of mandatory item for any one to improve's one's own social standards. But British were colonial rulers, where as today we are a democracy and no language can be forced upon people.

Most of the common people in TN know the importance of hindi and they will choose it as the third language.

Another "trick" I have seen in school syllabes is to make the Hindi syllabus way too simplistic and easy to score marks ;). In many school boards marks achieved in each subject is counted. Take a situation where in Hindi some can score a 90%, where as in Malayalam/Tamil it is tough to even get 70%. Lot of folks would automatically choose Hindi ;).

Krita wrote:Many people in Kerala especially in central districts can speak Hindi thanks to the migration from Bihar, Orissa and Bengal. In Ernakulam even the bus boards are in Hindi and Bengali. Nobody cries Mallu pride or gets offended seeing that.

This also shows the sad situation in Kerala ;). First of all there is a shortage of labour, and when the state gets immigrants they are not even encouraged to learn the local language. Rather, the Kerala population is now kind of forced to communicate in a language which was till now alien to them. The average Keralite would have "swallow his pride" if he has to get the work done ;). 100% literate people are all now outside the state borders. The truth is that Malayalis don't have a choice now :lol:.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Karthik S » 03 Jun 2019 18:13

Magi wrote:
Tamilians take pride in their language. First learn to pronounce Pazham not Palam. Purging Sanskrit words and replacing it with English words is Tamil pride. The irony is that all icons (other than terrorist Periyar) are all Tambrams or Not ethnic Tamilians. Many people in Kerala especially in central districts can speak Hindi thanks to the migration from Bihar, Orissa and Bengal. In Ernakulam even the bus boards are in Hindi and Bengali. Nobody cries Mallu pride or gets offended seeing that


Your claim that all icons are from a particular community is irrelevant. In the latter posts you claim that these community people are driven away from TN. Even after these so called iconic community people left TN, the GDP of TN is second largest in India. TN has one of the highest living standards. This shows that each person from TN has made what TN it is, in terms of living standards. These so called iconic community does not alone make TN what it is, they may be one of the communities which contributed to TN's status. I do not claim that current TN is the best we can think of. It has lot of scope for improvement. I agree that the minds of TN people have been manipulated by successive regimes and anti-hindu groups. Also, to some extent tamil pride is over done.
Every community has its own talents and should be respected for whatever talent they have and the job they do. Categorizing them as upper or lower community just because one iconic community believes that whatever they do is the best job is incorrect. A society needs all kinds of work(carpenter, weaver, farmer., etc) to develop. Every hard working person should be respected irresspective of what may be the nature of his job. Exactly this categorization and superiority mentality has what has made people of TN hate this so called iconic community.
The political parties and non-hindu groups in TN have made the people hate BJP by associating BJP with this so called iconic community. Unless BJP gets rid of this opinion in people's mind that it is a party supporting a particular iconic community's mindset, it is difficult for it to make inroads in TN. This is the root of BJP's problems in TN.



OK, looks like you have reading comprehension problems. Krita was talking about contribution to language, that includes art such as music etc. Nowhere GDP etc was mentioned. It's another matter if one doesn't acknowledge contributions by people to a language. He mentioned such icons belong to certain community, he didn't call entire community as iconic community, icons belonging to certain community vs iconic community see the difference? You even went on writing some gibberish about lower upper etc. Why people hate this group? Well everything will not come free in life through reservations and freebies, simply having jealousy will not help. And look who are the beneficiaries of that hate. BTW, will be great if you ask other communities to stop indulging in casteism as well. Saw various news where few zamindar castes still practice untouchability and don't allow people from SC communities to enter their temples, still make them wear bare footed etc. Ever heard about kilvenmani massacre? TN is right up there in honor killings wherein inter-caste couple are killed by so called upper castes. BTW TN also tops in crime and manual scavenging. Take out kongu region and the statistics will be lot worse.

For people like you who have superiority feeling viz a viz other states on GDP, first go read about Freight Equivalence policy and associated benefits, the industries, the national highway network etc., that TN got from central government since 1950s. Read about it, you'll know there is a lot to thank central government and resources rich states such as JK and Bihar

BTW BJP will not try to get itself disassociated from that community, you can continue voting for raja, kani and karthi.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Picklu » 03 Jun 2019 18:50

khatvaanga wrote:There seems to be an interesting phenomenon playing out in AP, too early to judge if it is in passing or if it will sustain into something tangible. Last few days and especially last two days telugu WA has been flooding with images of jagan with bible next to him, how his top officers are all RoL reddys, how AP has now "to be saved" etc. I see this as beginning of reverse polarization by the majority in AP. Again very early in the process to even call it that, but if it does sustain then we may see AP as the new WB [with RoL instead of RoP]. It could give the foothold for a hindu / dharmic party to consolidate over the next few months / years.


One point regarding comparison between WB and AP. Bong hindus are extremely proud of their religion and conversion has never been a problem since early days of British period.

Before that, islamic conversion did happen with Mughal patronage but then again, mostly buddists converted who were earlier converts from lower caste hindus even before Islam arrived. The problem were identified during Bengal Renaissance and there were major changes done in reforming the religious customs by removing the blind orthodox oppressive social norms prevalent at that point of time. Please do not kill me for using the term oppresive, none of it were part of core Dharma but actually crept in slowly in social custom over a period of time for various reasons.

But once that was done during early British period, neither Mullah nor Padre have much success here.

What bongs have faced is an influx from the neighbor islamic nation and differential TFR which have caused a spike in RoP population ratio, the growth was not at all due to conversion.

RoL problem in AP and to certain extent in entire southern part of India is completely different from that. There is no neighborhood from where RoL folks are coming. All growth in RoL population is a straight away result of conversion. And then when the RoL population percentage reaches close to 9% compared to the 4% in the other parts of the nation (other than NE), a different solution need to be looked at than what is need in WB right now.

Most likely, the solution would be similar to what was arrived in WB in early british period and think RSS and its affiliates are working in somewhat the same model of universal access to functional education, assimilation of local ideas and customs in hindu dharma, increase in community feeling by regular social gathering and pride on own history and culture, removal of the oppressive norms that has been crept into socio-religious practice.

However, an effective solution against external corrupting influence must be found in both current WB and AP.
For WB, need to negate the votebank politics that allow illegals crossing over. For AP and south India at large, external funds providing financial incentive for conversion must be stopped.
Last edited by Picklu on 03 Jun 2019 18:58, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby chetak » 03 Jun 2019 18:51

Tambrams are as much "peoples" as any other community. We are discussing fratricide here in honeyed and sugar coated dulcet tones of so called logical and philosophical discussions.

why are we so forgiving of the muslim and xtian invaders and the inhuman atrocities that they perpetuated on a docile Hindu populace for centuries, their genocides and the inquisitions and the unimaginable horrors of their anti Hindu policies and the disastrous fall out of their cruel rule and yet we talk as though the Tambrams did worse and did so in much greater magnitude. We are hypocrites, that's why.

The Tambrams should be allowed as much space culturally and socially as anyone else. This is a constitutionally guaranteed as well as an inalienable fundamental right. This periyar nonsense and the DMK, AIDMK and other "tamil" groups' ideology bandied about so casually is foreign to the tamil culture as are the very leaders of these movements all of whom are/were not tamils in origin or even culture.

stop and think for a moment, the ideology introduced/propagated by these entities, all have a common source tracing, centuries ago, back to a lying fraud of a foreigner called "bishop" caldwell and his counterfeit, criminally crafty and deceitful "dravidian" construct.

Did caldwell talk about Hinduism and propagate it or did he do so for a desert cult. Does anyone wonder why.

wasn't this guy a south Indian version of Max Müller, pushing his "dravidian" theory, a subset of the aryan theory.

try and understand what these "tamil" groups are fraudulently pushing in the name of tamil pride. shorn of all pretense, they are fairly overtly pushing desert cults and are rapidly shrinking the public and cultural space afforded to the culture, religion and the civilization life forces of peoples who were the original and true inhabitants of the land. The books, history and culture of these peoples have been illicitly appropriated, their holy books have been treacherously stolen and the very authorship of these works have been changed so as to inculcate and further a BIF mandate that is being pushed by offshore entities.

The influence and growth of national and nationalistic political parties have been purposely stymied in a few states like KER, TN, AP, TEL, WB, PJ and J&K plus a few other states including those in the NE so that regional parties hold sway. That is how the BIF has grown so rapidly and so overtly

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Sridhar K » 03 Jun 2019 20:17

As Aditya mentioned, this Tambrahm driven out of TN is being overplayed as evidenced by the # of Brahmin in the cities, the income levels of Brahmins (who do actual Brahmin work for a living) nowadays or no of Tambrahm in this very forum currently living in TN or at least have their families in TN.

Yes, the state Govt jobs are non existent, seats in Govt colleges very limited due to 69 pc reservation, migration of Brahmin families to Cities etc is true apart from the occasional antics of DK hard nuts. People migrated to places where Central Govt jobs or good paying pvt sector jobs were available. Only the IT boom ensured that people could find jobs here. This was the story from the early 80s till 2014

The sudden revival of anti Brahmin narrative and equating BJP to upper caste/Brahmins post 2014 coincides with the rise of EJ sponsored outfits like NTK, Kamals MNM, and the death of JJ apart from the fact that the social media fight back against BIF is lead majorly by Brahmins and upper caste folks
Tamil cinema is infested with visual comm students from Loyola and social media is infested with BIF narrative.

Chetak Saar
That is exactly what I was arguing with my own uncle who is well read about Maculay, Max Muller etc but did not have a clue on Caldwell. He still thinks that Tamil was pure and later assimilated Sanskrit in the post Christ era

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Krita » 03 Jun 2019 20:59

Sachin wrote:
TKiran wrote:

This also shows the sad situation in Kerala ;). First of all there is a shortage of labour, and when the state gets immigrants they are not even encouraged to learn the local language. Rather, the Kerala population is now kind of forced to communicate in a language which was till now alien to them. The average Keralite would have "swallow his pride" if he has to get the work done ;). 100% literate people are all now outside the state borders. The truth is that Malayalis don't have a choice now :lol:.


Tamilians too have migrated in droves in search of work. The migration decreased in the last decade due to the booming economy in Tamilnadu. There are Tamil colonies in Delhi and Mumbai which shows the extent of migration. Thiis victimhood complex of Tamilians should stop. Tamilians are being taken for a ride by Dravidian parties raising the Dravidian pride and Tamil exceptionalism bogey. Like some forumers have argued every community have their strengths. Neither Tamils are special nor the Keralites. Pampering to the false grievances of Dumeels will only increase their rudaali. Keralites too are in early stage of victimhood disease albeit in Commie/Mullah/EJ circles. There are some Malayali morons in twitter who trolled the BJP supporters with beef snaps during the Sabarimala issue and Kerala floods. I don't consume beef nor does any of my immediate relatives. But, thanks to these morons we are all beef eating mlechas.
Can the dumeels pronounce Pazham , azhaga, Tamizha even better Vazhi :)
Last edited by Krita on 03 Jun 2019 22:09, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Picklu » 03 Jun 2019 21:04

My understanding is the 3 language formula is there everywhere. I remember studying sanskrit as 3rd language for 3 years in WB state board.

Off course being a commie state, they were loathe to teach us sanskrit religious texts and hence confined us within Chanakya slokas.

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Singha » 03 Jun 2019 21:46

we had hindi from class4 to class6. the sanskrit/hindi in class8 before 3 lang formula was abandoned in favour of english and assamese.

my father caught hold of the "hindi propagation officer" in his bank and made him write good hindi notes for me to mug up :D

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby chetak » 03 Jun 2019 21:53

a raja of the notorious 2G scam accused foxed for an answer

watch video


twitter

Girl asks how many of your children study in TN Govt school and how many in CBSE. Raja first reels some statistics saying only 2% in the state study in CBSE and 98% in TN State boards. She clarifies, I am asking about your children. His reply: Good Question, Good Question


https://twitter.com/surnell/status/1135546227162927104

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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby williams » 03 Jun 2019 22:00

In TN the damage is already done in the 60s. Another one of the mishandlings of Congress govt. No point in trying to correct it now. The best thing to do now is to strengthen the Hindi Prachar Shaba system and maybe, provide some free online Hindi courses for the Masses. I would also like to see some Govt sponsored free Sanskrit classes online through the native tongue. In fact, free online courses in all Indian languages will be awesome. It will provide some good job opportunity for language teachers. It will also break the language divide and unshackle people from vote bank oriented politicians. Parents can decide what languages their kids can learn apart from what they learn in state govt schools. Just let the people flood the market :D

chetak
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Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby chetak » 03 Jun 2019 22:01

watch this video to know the reality of tamil warriors

twitter


This small video clip is enough 2 understand d so called fight of Tamil warriors against Hindi is all bogus,but political & instigated by missionaries, who is all out 2 cut Bharat into pieces.This anti-Hindi warriors shd try & learn/ pronounce Tamizh first

https://twitter.com/umagarghi/status/1135444267084599299


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