Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Yagnasri
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9543
Joined: 29 May 2007 18:03

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Yagnasri » 18 Oct 2019 14:46

ramana wrote:So subba rao is snake diety name.

ShyamSp, When you have time please tell me the relationship between the first, second, third and fourth dynasties of Vijayanagar.

I think gradually the Kingdom started moving from its Karnataka roots. But then it was founded after the destruction of Kakatiyas of Orugal. So its complex.


Sangama Dynasty came into the name as Father of 5 Hari Hara brothers whose mother was sister of Kapili Raya. This Raya was related to Yadavas of Devagiri. When Kampili Raya fell the kingdom also fell. Last major Hindu kingdom to fall was Hoyasala and it fell when Viraballala Deva III killed in the battle with Mathurai Sultan. He was skinned alive. Immediately the new empire was formed in 1946. Till Viraballala Deva was alive he was kept as the ruler of the Hoyasalas empire and Hari Hara acted as his Samanthas. As per the story Hari Hara and the wife of Viraballala Deva wife visited the Shrigeri temple and worshipped there. That was considered as the start of Vijayanagara Empire.

The shifting of the dynasties is made when the earlier king proved to be weak. Weak ruler replaced by a Strong Military leader i.e. Senapathi. The families of three dynasties are there in the critical leadership places from almost the start. Aaravidu is there because the Aliya Ramaraya is the Son in Law of the Krishnadeva Raya.

Rony
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2623
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 23:29

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Rony » 18 Oct 2019 17:48

Thanks to Tamil Church/Poralis/Dumeels/DMK gang

India has turned in an importer of copper, first time in 18 years

symontk
BRFite
Posts: 904
Joined: 01 Nov 2001 12:31
Location: Bangalore

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby symontk » 18 Oct 2019 17:58

ShyamSP wrote:
KLNMurthy wrote:
IIRC "araveeDu" is one of the traditional regions of Telugu land. Don't know if that coincides with Telugu land's border with Northern TN.

If "arava" is the old Telugu name for Northern TN region, then it makes sense that Telugus refer to Tamils as aravalu, or arava-vaaLlu. After all, Northern TN would be the interface between Telugu and Tamil lands and the name given to the interface would carry over to the whole region. This makes more sense than the usual chauvinistic explanation that Tamil is called aravamu in Telugu because to Telugu ears it sounds discordant & rough (a-ravamu).


Aravidu is the last Vijanagara Dynasty after the Tallikota war. They were of Telugu origin unlike earlier Tulu dynasty and moved their capital from Hampi to Penukonda (Ananthapur District) to Chandragiri (near Tirupati) to Vellore (Tamilnadu). That Aravidu may be some village/town where the Andhra people that married into Tulu dynasty came from. There are some village names with Aravidu.

Aravanadu or Aruvanadu (Aruvu Nadu) is likely derived from Aruvu * language, probably spoken language in those areas before Cholas and Pallavas. If that is not the case it may have derived from Aruvu (borrowing/loaning) meaning Borrowed land - This is like how Parts of Rayalaseema is called Ceded area after Nizam Ceding areas to British.
*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kannada_dialects

Real History is not taught in Tamilnadu or India so a lot of ancient history needs to be derived from informal accounts.


"Aravidu" in malayalam means "Royal house" or Kings house

"Ara" comes from "Arasu" = Govt usually King's Govt or "Arasan" = King
Vidu or Veedu is house

symontk
BRFite
Posts: 904
Joined: 01 Nov 2001 12:31
Location: Bangalore

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby symontk » 18 Oct 2019 18:05

Sachin wrote:
ramana wrote:The title dalwa or dalvoy is a Vijayanager era title.

Your note prompted me to check on Velu Thambi Dalawa. Now Wiki is certainly not the 100% reliable source, but it does show case the character of Velu Thambi as well as the intrigues and back stabbing prevalent in Travancore kingdom. Note that, this Dalawa was from Nagercoil (in today's TN) and Travancore had Dalawas/Diwans like Subba Iyyan from what is today TN. There were even titles like Diwan & Diwan Peshkar; which again seems to be have been handed over from other princely states of India. These words are generally not part of the Malayalam lexicon.

BTW, the wiki article also is totally countering the theory put forward by Rajesh Krishnan Simha. Velu Thambi had consiprated against his own clan/caste members, sided the British for some time, then ditched them and then also joined hands with the rival kingdom of Cochin.


Kerala kings always supported Vijayanagar empire. I read in a book that palace guards of Vijayanagar was from Travancore, not sure if its correct. They rescued family members after Battle of Talikota

Kanson
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2977
Joined: 20 Oct 2006 21:00

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Kanson » 18 Oct 2019 19:05

KLNMurthy wrote:
Kanson wrote:
Name Aravanadu/Aravallu are attributed to nagas who settled in Krishna-Guntur region(established facts) a few thousand years ago. Intially they spoke their own language but later they spoke tamil or tamil too. They are tamil literature which shows the nagas patronage to tamil language.

So when Telugus moved further south, they first came into contact with nagas who spoke tamil language. Their first contact with tamil lang is thru nagas. Thatswhy they associate Aravaan/Arava (nagas) with tamil.

Aravaan means snake. Arava/Aruva is something curved like snake head. Nagas represents snake. So Aravaan/Arava/Aravanadu are the other words for nagas


By "Naga" do we mean people from today's Nagaland? I am guessing not, because there is no physical resemblance. It might refer to people who are worshippers of snake deity or even elephant-trainers as "naga" also means elephant in Telugu.

Shame that our school education doesn't teach us these things.


No.

Modern historians often refer nagas as sea-farers from far off land. (Far off means i believed/assumed it should be from Ceylon or Africa. Many Indian tribes settled in Africa, whether it is Sudan of east coast or Cameroon on the west coast.)
Commonly believed that these nagas are Indian tribes that left India but returning back (for whatever reasons).
Old tamil literature, i think it is Manimekalai (wikipedia.org/wiki/Manimekalai), which talks of shipwreck near Poompuhar that brought nagas to tamil shore. Nearby Poompuhar is a place by name Nagapattinam (wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagapattinam , check the etymology section) attributing the place to nagas.

Nagas settled all along the Indian coast. And it goes as high as bengal-odissa region.

To complete the picture:
Ramayan talks of nagas as one of the tribes present in Srilanka. It was believed that due to the skills of nagas in construction that Ceylon looked beautiful.

In Mahabharat - from begining to end you can find nagas. It is better you go through the link: https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Naga_Kingdom. There is some slight variation as i heard from MB, it goes like due to higher soul/God intervention, rather than killing all the nagas they were banished from Bharath.
Since MB timeline is only 5000 yrs old, it is more likely that nagas that are coming back could be the banished ones.

Just another reference point: The marriage between Chola king & naga princess happened nearly 3000 yrs back in small islet near Ceylon.

Regarding snake worship, some leftist historians started peddling their own theories that it is these nagas who introduced snake worship to Indians. There purpose is to use foreign elements(here nagas being foreign) to suppress the native & native belief. This is their agenda always. I dont believe that. Respecting & later worshipping the snake existed by its own and not influenced by one section of people. Just we respected cows or crows during pithru customs, we respected snake for its high sensitivity. Otherwise why would Shiva to Ganesha wears them on the body? Even Garuda is depicted with 8 snakes as some kind of protection against ....

KLNMurthy
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3868
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 13:06

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby KLNMurthy » 18 Oct 2019 20:15

@kanson very nice Wikipedia article on Naga Kings. As an Andhra it is perspective-altering. Nagas are everywhere in Mahabharata and Naga references are everywhere in Andhra and in Telugu idiom. (Though Andhras are, I believe, mentioned separately in MB as a tribe that fought on the side of Kauravas.)

vijayk
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4048
Joined: 22 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby vijayk » 18 Oct 2019 21:11

https://www.opindia.com/2019/10/kerala- ... n-schemes/
Did you know that Kerala has a state department that helps people who leave Hinduism and accept Christianity?
The Kerala government goes out of its way to ensure the 'well-being' of those who leave Hinduism to join Christianity. The call to fill vacancies only by Christian converts is not a one-off notification and the state provides several benefits to the members of the SCCC community.

Image

Vayutuvan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10230
Joined: 20 Jun 2011 04:36

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Vayutuvan » 19 Oct 2019 01:08

Yagnasri wrote:... Viraballala Deva III killed in the battle with Mathurai Sultan. He was skinned alive. Immediately the new empire was formed in 1946.


Small nit - 1346.

Sachin
Webmaster BR
Posts: 7609
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Undisclosed

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Sachin » 19 Oct 2019 11:27

vijayk wrote:Did you know that Kerala has a state department that helps people who leave Hinduism and accept Christianity?

These are some of the issues which the pro-Hindu outfits (and BJP) of KL can easily focus on. At least one lawyer can file a case in Kerala HC challenging this department's functioning (as it is encouraging people purely on religion). But no, they will not do it. For them Sabari Mala may be a more important issue as it is a low hanging fruit and people's emotions are at play here. Where as the communists and "seculars" in Kerala have a good long term already put in place.

Kanson
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2977
Joined: 20 Oct 2006 21:00

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Kanson » 19 Oct 2019 18:54

KLNMurthy wrote:@kanson very nice Wikipedia article on Naga Kings. As an Andhra it is perspective-altering. Nagas are everywhere in Mahabharata and Naga references are everywhere in Andhra and in Telugu idiom. (Though Andhras are, I believe, mentioned separately in MB as a tribe that fought on the side of Kauravas.)

Nice to know you are from that region. Pallavas of Kanchi(sub clan of nagas) reigned for only ~200 yrs. Even in that short time their reign is so popular. And Nagas of Krishna-Guntur were present at the least few hundred yrs before that. So it is only natural to see their influence well spread & well established. Nagas are found in Jainism and even much more in Buddhism.

You asked about Nagaland. Nagas of nagaland claimed themselves as Tibeto-Burmese people. But....in neighbouring state Manipur, the dynasty of Manipur was established from the progeny that born out of Nagas(serpent) & human, much like Pallavas. So i leave it to you, to your own judgment.

Sachin
Webmaster BR
Posts: 7609
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Undisclosed

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Sachin » 20 Oct 2019 10:43

Revolution through cashew nuts. - Kerala style

The communists seems to be now focusing on messing up with Hindu religion else where. They ship sub-standard cashew nuts to TTD at Tirumala, but the alert folks there send it back in quick time. Not a word of remorse from the commies. TTD should actually sue them for wasting time and delivering poor quality food materials.
Tirumala Tirupati Devasthanams to return Kerala cashews

vishvak
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 5484
Joined: 12 Aug 2011 21:19

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby vishvak » 20 Oct 2019 14:43

The problem is not just at Tirupati but everywhere such exclusive ideologies are trying to takeover and mutilate logistics of sacred traditions' materials be it fruits or flowers.

Rony
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2623
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 23:29

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Rony » 22 Oct 2019 21:47

Vijay is Christian

https://twitter.com/NeelaTunga/status/1 ... 7507454977 (Video)

Have you seen such fans for any Hero in India, but Vijay has !

Even for MGR or Rajani,I don't think TN witnessed such crazy, eccentric, mad fans !

Wen Generations advances (most)

#Tamil youth brain shrinks, I guess.

See this stupidity


When TN will come out this stupidity ?

Missionery money

Gulf money

Infused in TN for conversion

Make the youth Forget their cultural identity & heritage

Make them believe only in these heroes

Finally perculates to change demographics & achive their agenda

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53470
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby ramana » 24 Oct 2019 07:21

https://twitter.com/RajeevSrinivasa/sta ... 09664?s=19


results of by-elections in #Kerala will be announced. Idiocy by Kerala Hindus will be visible again.

#ezhava, largest Hindu group, are either commies or support muslims, or both.

#nair, 2nd largest, practically christian b team.

a pox on both, 2nd class citizens already.

Rony
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2623
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 23:29

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Rony » 02 Nov 2019 12:13

If you want to see the kind of leaders which make BJP a laughing non-entity in AP, go through this thread.

https://twitter.com/ChhBong/status/1190296798889332736 . He dug up past tweets going back to 2011 and 2014 of vice president of AP BJP Vishnuwardhan Reddy. Reddy deleted his twitter account now.
https://twitter.com/vishnureddybjp?lang=en.
He comes out as a cheap reddy casteist and lead credence to the rumors that he is YSRCP covert in BJP.
TDP and Janasena folks in teetar are having a field day with this.

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5162
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Karthik S » 02 Nov 2019 12:28

Rony garu, BJP is non-entity in 3 southern states. It will take a decade or so before they can even think of being in a good position to win an election.

Rony
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2623
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 23:29

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Rony » 02 Nov 2019 18:48

Rony wrote:If you want to see the kind of leaders which make BJP a laughing non-entity in AP, go through this thread.

https://twitter.com/ChhBong/status/1190296798889332736 . He dug up past tweets going back to 2011 and 2014 of vice president of AP BJP Vishnuwardhan Reddy. Reddy deleted his twitter account now.
https://twitter.com/vishnureddybjp?lang=en.
He comes out as a cheap reddy casteist and lead credence to the rumors that he is YSRCP covert in BJP.
TDP and Janasena folks in teetar are having a field day with this.


This is getting picked up by other telugu social media like below one. Soon it will be in telugu mainstream media too. From his side, Vishnuvardhan reddy is saying its not his twitter account . But even BJP's official handle is promoting that twitter handle and he himself is still using it (after deactivating it for some time yesterday after this broke out).




Coterie's in AP BJP

Pro-TDP coterie - Sujana chowdhary, C.M.Ramesh
Pro-YSRCP coterie - Vishnuvardhan Reddy

Yagnasri
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9543
Joined: 29 May 2007 18:03

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Yagnasri » 02 Nov 2019 21:50

BJP in AP seems to be many groups. TDP BJP, YSRC BJP, Original and old BJP. I do hope Anil Devdhar is getting rid of the first two groups asap. CBN is spreading rumours once again that TDP and BJP are coming together again. Ram Madhav had to make a statement that it will not happen because of those rumours.

Rony
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2623
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 23:29

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Rony » 02 Nov 2019 22:12

I dont see any Original and old BJP people anymore :roll: . Even the current state BJP president Kanna Lakshmi narayana, a Kapu is a import from Congress . He gave BJP support to Pawan Kalyan's (a fellow Kapu ) anti-YSRCP long march. In response, Vishnuvardhan Reddy came out and ruled out supporting or joining PK's march and also gave statements favoring YSRCP.

Me thinks BJP strategy in AP is trying to build on Kapu-Kamma-BC coalition since Reddy's, SC, ST, Christians, Muslims are solidly behind YSRCP and wont ditch it anytime soon. Hence its encouraging Kamma and BC defections from TDP and trying to attract Kapus through Kanna. YSRCP coverts in BJP like Vishnuwardhan reddy are opposed to this. And in order to stop TDP defections, CBN and CBN media are spreading rumors and giving message that no need to defect to BJP since we will have alliance in the future anyway. Thats why BJP is forcefully rejecting those rumors.

Rony
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2623
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 23:29

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Rony » 03 Nov 2019 18:25

https://twitter.com/im_saiganesh/status ... 6753487872

If Thirukkural that oppose non-vegetarianism is accepted as pluralistic by Tamil chauvinists, why is RSS that ideologically oppose cow slaughtering is not accepted as pluralistic by same Tamil chauvinists.

Tamil Chauvinists are the biggest bunch of hypocrites!

Rony
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2623
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 23:29

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Rony » 03 Nov 2019 22:23

History of beef eating in Kerala

Before getting recruited into the military of the kingdom, a Nair warrior (most of the military men were from Nair community) having finished studying the art of warfare from Kalari (military school) had to take oath in front of the King to protect Brahmins and cows. This is recorded by Duarte Barbosa, a 16th century Portuguese writer :

“The King then asks him if he will maintain the customs and rules of the other Nayres (Nairs), and he and his kinsmen respond ‘ Yes.’ Then the King commands him to gird on his right side a sword with a red sheath, and when it is girt on he causes him to approach near to himself and la, his right hand on his head, saying therewith certain words which none may hear, seemingly a prayer, and then embraces him saying ‘ Paje Gubrantarca, that is to say ‘ Protect cows and Bramenes (Brahmins)”

Source: https://books.google.co.in/books?id=cAg ... AJ&pg=PT40

A similar oath was made by Samuthiris or Zamorins, the Nair kings of Calicut before their royal coronation

“At Yagneswaram he is met by Vemaneheri Namputiri, a descendant of Melattur Agnihotri. The Eralped (Zamorin) gives him an ola (text), promising to protect Brahmins, temples and cows.”

Source: https://archive.org/details/TheZamorinsOfCalicut

It is interesting to note that Aithihyamala, a 19th century work detailing many folklore and legends of Kerala also records an incident in which the famous 18th century Raja of Cochin, Rama Varma Shaktan Thampuran executed a Muslim who had killed a cow. The Raja also refused to observe Shivaratri vrata since the Muslim had killed the cow on that day.

So eating beef and slaughter of cattle was unthinkable in kingdoms of Kerala. How and whence did beef eating became widespread in Kerala? It could’ve become popular only after the jihad of the Islamist Hyder and his son Tipu on Kerala during the 18th century. Tipu had forced the Hindus to undergo circumcision and eat beef to prove their conversion to Islam:

” into that country in April, 1788, he directed his officers of Calicut, to begin by seizing on the Brahmins, and to render them examples to the other classes, by enforcing circumcision on them, and compelling them to eat beef; and accordingly many Brahmins were seized in or about the month of July, 1788, and were thus forcibly deprived of their caste; whilst others sought for shelter with the Rajahs of the Zamorin’s family “

Source: https://books.google.co.in/books?id=ZyU ... AJ&pg=PA33

So taking all these evidences into account, it seems that slaughter of cows was forbidden in old kingdoms of Kerala and its popularity is a later trend after communism and Abrahamic religions like Islam and Christianity became popular.

Sanju
BRFite
Posts: 985
Joined: 14 Aug 2005 01:00
Location: North of 49

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Sanju » 03 Nov 2019 23:13

In Thiruvithankor (Travancore), the Maharaja then the Diwan followed by Diwan Peshkar in precedence. Typically, the Diwan was a TamBram and the Diwan Peshkar were Nairs. Two of my Great-Grand Uncles were Peshkars. This knowledge was handed down as per family lore and not from any book or source.

The same family lore that has been kept alive to this day in my family about Tipu the Butcher, butchering our family in Malabar and one female family member being asked to escape to southern lands with a Karnavar (typically the oldest male member/head of the family, but also used to refer to an older man in the family). The young girl then settles down in a part of the land of the Cochin Maharaja and starts the new lineage there. Our family temple and the Tharavad (Ancestral/Khandani House) is still there. The family built a school in the name of one of the Peshakars called the Narayana Menon School that was handed to NSS and is called the NSS school in that area.

That area was subsequently ceded to the Travancore Maharaja as part of a peace treaty. Thus making us the subjects of the Travancore Maharaja and part of the family moving further south to be part of the administration.

Our vocal history needs to be passed down from one generation to the other, this way, we can diminish the impact of what is taught in our "textbooks".

Dileep
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5677
Joined: 04 Apr 2005 08:17
Location: Dera Mahab Ali धरा महाबलिस्याः درا مهاب الي

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Dileep » 04 Nov 2019 17:56

The successors of Sakthan were feeble, so naturally the Mappilas would have got back to cow slaughter with a vengeance. Tippu came, defeated Samuthiri and force converted many people and made them eat beef. So, there was no real administrative opposition to Muslims and Xtians eating beef in the northern half of Kerala. After the passing of Dharma Raja, even Travancore went into weak rulers and political turmoil, with Muslims and Xtians becoming strong players in the political intrigues (Mathu Tharakan, the spice trader was a big power broker during Velu Thampy's time). So, the administrative ban on beef would have gone powerless by early 1800s in whole of KL.

When I was a kid, Hindus didn't eat beef. Only 'mappila' hotels sold beef, and hindus didn't eat there. At my village, there were no Muslims. Only Hindus and Xtians (the orthodox kind). During my teens (ie the seventies), hotels started selling beef, and people started eating it. First the young generation (myself and my bro was among them). Most of the previous generation didn't, and still don't. By the time, the social taboo was practically gone.

So, it can be safely said that widespread beef eating by Hindus in KL began in 1970s.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12909
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby UlanBatori » 04 Nov 2019 22:48

"'mappila' hotels"
I think this is what was called "Military Hotel" in Mongolia. No one would tell me exactly what these were, but they wouldn't take me there either. :mrgreen:

ShyamSP
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2375
Joined: 06 Mar 2002 12:31

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby ShyamSP » 05 Nov 2019 01:42

New map missed AP capital and State BJP president is blaming Chandra Babu Naidu, may be they don't want BJP not to cross above 1%. :D
Looks like Tango of two parties BJP & YCP is still continuing to take state to abyss. State cuts Capital development, Center cuts it from map.

(PS: Looks like after release, some backlash may have caused official map to be restored now)

https://twitter.com/klnbjp/status/1191025656466853888
Image
https://www.gulte.com/news/79978/-India ... ital-State

Vayutuvan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10230
Joined: 20 Jun 2011 04:36

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Vayutuvan » 05 Nov 2019 01:59

In AP/TG non-veg serving stablishments are called Miltary Mess/Military Hotel. But they do not serve beef. I have no idea whether Iranian cafes/restaurants serve beef, but they do make excellent mutton biryani, Nizami style.

Rony
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2623
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 23:29

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Rony » 05 Nov 2019 04:10

ShyamSP wrote:New map missed AP capital and State BJP president is blaming Chandra Babu Naidu, may be they don't want BJP not to cross above 1%. :D
Looks like Tango of two parties BJP & YCP is still continuing to take state to abyss. State cuts Capital development, Center cuts it from map.


Oh please ! Backstab Babu did not even issue a gazzete for Amaravati ( is it because of keeping his and his cronies real estate business in mind and wanted to have flexibility on what areas he wanted to call as capital ??) . The word Amaravati as capital city with clear boundaries appears not even once in the govt gazette.

No official seal to Amaravati: AP municipal minister

Atmavik
BRFite
Posts: 659
Joined: 24 Aug 2016 04:43

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Atmavik » 05 Nov 2019 06:21

Vayutuvan wrote:In AP/TG non-veg serving stablishments are called Miltary Mess/Military Hotel. But they do not serve beef. I have no idea whether Iranian cafes/restaurants serve beef, but they do make excellent mutton biryani, Nizami style.


Iranian cafes/restaurants make sure to advertise that they serve only lamb but no one knows the truth. most folks stick to chicken. there are very few who openly serve beef( called bada gosh in local language)

Rony
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2623
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 23:29

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Rony » 05 Nov 2019 06:32

In Hyderabad/Telangana also in Hyderabad-Karnataka (Bidar, Gulbarga, Raichur, Bellary), Beef biryani serving hotels were called Kalyani biryani hotels. Both Muslims and some Hindus eat there. In Hyderabad, north east migrants from Mizoram, Nagaland are also their clientele.

On Why Beef Biryani in Hyderabad called Kalyani Biryani

The beef biryani in Hyderabad also called as KALYANI BIRYANI, locally got its name from KALYANI nawabs who used to visit the Nizam court for various official purposes.

KALYANI nawabs were the fortkeepers of Nizam territory in KALYANI / Basavakalyani region(in present day Karnataka). They had their official rest house/ mansion in Hyderabad nearby CHARMINAR and thus whenever someone visits the nizam court from Basavakalyani, they used to stay there and were served with delicious Hyderabadi biryani as usual.

But in 1940’s , when the communist armed struggle in Hyderabad state against Nizam was in full swing, these nawabs couldn't handle their lands and thus their fortunes dwindled. In order to provide them biryani at cheaper price, the cooks in the mansion started using beaf meat(which was relatively cheaper) in biryani making. Being delicious and cheap, it soon became famous among common folkfore too and then started various Biryani points with KALYANI BIRYANI name boards to distinguish it from regular meat biryani. And the legacy follows……..

sudarshan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2020
Joined: 09 Aug 2008 08:56

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby sudarshan » 05 Nov 2019 06:48

Modi - Thirukkural - cat among DMK pigeons

Fantastikk!!! Modi ji, multi-crore shashtang pranaams onlee!

For the uninitiated - Thiruvalluvar and his Thirukkural have been, in recent times, heavily poached on by the "Dravidians" and their EJ agenda. The goal was to usurp both of these to further their agenda.

Now with Modi ji's action, there seems to be an open twitter war, with the DMK getting the worst of it. People are pointing out that portraying Thiruvalluvar without the saffron robes and ash marks was a post 1960's phenomenon, and the original portraits (including a portrait from Sri Lanka which is currently doing the twitter rounds) show him with both of these Hindu symbols.

TN has always flipped for outsiders, who paid the nominal obeisance to the Tamil language (MGR, Rajani, Jayalalitha, Karunanidhi himself). I was hoping to see some naarthie from the BJP take on this role, never imagined that Modi himself would do this.

Best was Stalin being trolled with a verse from the Thirukkural itself :rotfl:.

**__________________

Yaakaavaaraiyinum naakaakka, kaavaakkaal sogaappar sollizhakkappattu

(Whatever else you fail to guard, please guard your tongue, else your own speech will bring you misery).

How apt!!

Just like world Yoga day firmly fixed Yoga as being from India/ Hinduism, cunning baniya Modi is doing the same for the Thirukkural.

OmkarC
BRFite
Posts: 571
Joined: 15 Nov 2016 11:25

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby OmkarC » 05 Nov 2019 10:51

Looks like Jagan is slowly revealing his EJ colors. Chief Secretary LV Subramanyam has been transferred hastily..

Apparently, the Chief Secretary was attempting to weed out non-Hindu administrators from Tirumala.

habal
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6693
Joined: 24 Dec 2009 18:46

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby habal » 05 Nov 2019 13:09

Dileep wrote:The successors of Sakthan were feeble, so naturally the Mappilas would have got back to cow slaughter with a vengeance. Tippu came, defeated Samuthiri and force converted many people and made them eat beef. So, there was no real administrative opposition to Muslims and Xtians eating beef in the northern half of Kerala. After the passing of Dharma Raja, even Travancore went into weak rulers and political turmoil, with Muslims and Xtians becoming strong players in the political intrigues (Mathu Tharakan, the spice trader was a big power broker during Velu Thampy's time). So, the administrative ban on beef would have gone powerless by early 1800s in whole of KL.

When I was a kid, Hindus didn't eat beef. Only 'mappila' hotels sold beef, and hindus didn't eat there. At my village, there were no Muslims. Only Hindus and Xtians (the orthodox kind). During my teens (ie the seventies), hotels started selling beef, and people started eating it. First the young generation (myself and my bro was among them). Most of the previous generation didn't, and still don't. By the time, the social taboo was practically gone.

So, it can be safely said that widespread beef eating by Hindus in KL began in 1970s.


Dileep/Sanju
Christians in malabar originally lived around port town of muziris. (ie modern day cranganore/kodungallore). It was Tipu's attack that made them go southwards as Samuthiri asked them to flee as he couldn't protect these traders any longer. So nairs, nambuthiri & christians first fled to thrissur to seek refuge in Kochi kingdom but the Kochi king pleaded helplessness and told them to flee further south else he too would come under attack by Tipu who was intent on chasing these traders and rich landowners south in order to plunder their wealth. And the Kochi king referred these migrants to a local feudal further south (which was later taken over by travancore king marthanda varma and those areas became travancore) who settled these migrants near the river which had carried them thus far south in their boats.

Regarding beef eating by muslims and xtians in kerala. The time of the second world war was a period of acute starvation in kerala with serious shortage of foodgrain supply amongst the masses and only class insulated from this were the still landed gentry who had their own stocks of rice and grains. A decade or so after the war ended, India opted for PL480 food imports in the 1960s. Same period during the 60s, the pentecostals & southern baptists made a strong ingress into Kerala and southern India and one of the main features of their assembly was the grand feast at the end where lots of rice and beef were served to the attendees. That was the first time the locals had seen meat in such quantities being served. The habit caught on from there to church festivals and later on to restaurants which was about the time the hindus also started eating beef with porotta after it became a popular lunch time item. During lunch time in the 80s & 90s the restaurants would take a table fan and waft the smell of frying beef on a tawa with some garam masala, ajinomoto and coriander powder to the streets and people who were looking for cheap meal tried out the meat and got hooked. This is how beef got mass acceptance. People who ate beef were lionized in malayalam movies as those leading a wild life and exceptionally strong and that image may have caught on to the masses. And the same goes for drinking liquor, those people who drank liquor were believed to be very good company and those with whom fun times could be had with as per malayalam movies and within a couple of generations it became an epidemic.

Yagnasri
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9543
Joined: 29 May 2007 18:03

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Yagnasri » 05 Nov 2019 13:42

Jagan had other things in this mind till now and his EJ backers were however active from day one. In fact even under CBN EJ activities are quite openly supported by TDP. Now the drama has stopped for the time being.

Sachin
Webmaster BR
Posts: 7609
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Undisclosed

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Sachin » 05 Nov 2019 14:58

Sanju wrote:The same family lore that has been kept alive to this day in my family about Tipu the Butcher, butchering our family in Malabar and one female family member being asked to escape to southern lands with a Karnavar (typically the oldest male member/head of the family, but also used to refer to an older man in the family).

Dileep wrote:When I was a kid, Hindus didn't eat beef. Only 'mappila' hotels sold beef, and hindus didn't eat there. At my village, there were no Muslims. Only Hindus and Xtians (the orthodox kind).

Tipu the butcher made his entry into what is today's KL through the northern areas; what are today's Wayanad Dt, parts of Kannur Dt and Kozhikode Dt. His terror march was mainly through what is today's Malappuram Dt, Palakkad Dt, and some parts of Thrissur Dt. Draw a line based on the Muslim population density of an area, and and you would pretty much trace the route which Tipu the butcher took. In the Cochin-Travancore state border his move was stopped after the Travancore army opened the bunds flooding the river and washing away the bulk of Tipu's cavalry. Tipu's father Haider had also reached Palakkad via a different route; that was via Dindigul, TN some time earlier.

Now on the topic of beef. Beef was off limits to pretty much any Hindu household who had some social standing. Cooking of beef in the home's kitchen was a strict no no, and rarely did the women of those days knew how to cook it. "Beef eating" became popular when perhaps eating out became popular, or was an easier option for many people. KL men always used to go outside the state to make a living. Chennai & Mumbai were prime destinations, and I am sure KL men would naturally adapt to the food habits of those states. But it should be during the 1970s that men also had to move around within the state (due to more local jobs eg: banks etc.). And from then on "beef eating" started becoming more common.

One thing I have noticed; good vegetarian hotels at that time only existed in big & small towns. In other remote areas, the hotel menu was based on what the local population wanted. And many such places were hilly & forested lands where the settlers were mainl X'ians and Muslims. So for people who were posted to such areas (due to their jobs) natuarally had to use all food options to stay healthy. And beef also had this taboo attached to it; so many youngsters tried it out to prove that they are different. And today the hotel industry in KL have a very sizeable presence of Muslims and X'ians and naturally this dish is now a standard in pretty much every non-veg hotel. Hindu caterers are now focusing more on the "Vegetarian/Brahmin style" dishes to show their uniqueness.

My sample size is limited, and I am willing to be corrected. But my understanding is that even today majority of KL Hindus will never cook beef at home. They may have beef dishes from hotels though. I have kind of developed a metre to figure out the Hindu-ness in KL based on beef 8). People who don't eat beef, obviously mean pious Hindus. People who eat beef, but their parents don't eat it. Such folks too come from pious Hindu families, and the young chap's love for beef is an "acquired" one. The above two categories may be from communities who were royals or people associated with temple duties. People who eat beef, but don't cook it at home (or in their own kitchen). In many such families women don't actually cook beef, men do it. They too are Hindu believers only, but may be less orthodox in their religious thought processes. The last category are folks (men & women) who prepare, cook and eat beef just like any other dish. They may be Hindu believers or may not be at all.

UlanBatori wrote:I think this is what was called "Military Hotel" in Mongolia. No one would tell me exactly what these were, but they wouldn't take me there either. :mrgreen:

Military Hotels actually is a proof that Hindus did NOT eat beef :). Military Hotels were non-vegetarian hotels, which had meat dishes but not beef. The logic was that Military men (even Hindus) were avid meat eaters, but due to religious taboo will never eat beef.

Sachin
Webmaster BR
Posts: 7609
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Undisclosed

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Sachin » 05 Nov 2019 15:12

habal wrote:Regarding beef eating by muslims and xtians in kerala. The time of the second world war was a period of acute starvation in kerala.

I don't think beef eating gained popularity amongst Muslims only after WW2. I was reading a book on the infamous 1921 Moplah riots. One episode which gets mentioned is a group of Muslim rioters demanding the Hindu land lord with few bags of rice plus the fattest cow/bull available with him. Both these were given, and once the British troops landed there the next day they could make out that the animal was slaughtered and the men had a good rice and beef curry/stew ;). Another incident was garlanding Hindu idols with intestines of of cows/bulls which was reported during the riots. These incidents prove that as a community Muslims did eat beef, and so naturally slaughtered cows/bulls.

Religious laws of Muslims did not stop them from eating beef. And from what I understand beef was also the cheapest available meat at that point of time. It was more like a poor man's meat; that even during weddings of wealthy Muslims it was avoided. Mutton was the more "in thing". As for the x'ians no meat was restricted by their religion, so things were even more easy. We must also understand that X'ian communities were the pioneers to actually move into the hilly districts of Kerala (which were also dense forests). So for these folks surviving on pure vegetarian diet was not an option. And they started the trend of hunting of wild animals. In the investigation report of the Sabari Mala arson case, the police clearly states that hunting of bison, deer etc was rampant in the hills of Pathanamthitta. And it was one of these X'ian poacher gangs who set the temple on fire.

And the same goes for drinking liquor, those people who drank liquor were believed to be very good company and those with whom fun times could be had with as per malayalam movies and within a couple of generations it became an epidemic.

True. Liquor consumption was considered as the epitome of "fun". But looks like those days are also gone. The next gen is now more into more lethal drugs 8).

Dileep
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5677
Joined: 04 Apr 2005 08:17
Location: Dera Mahab Ali धरा महाबलिस्याः درا مهاب الي

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Dileep » 05 Nov 2019 15:37

As I recall, around my place in North Travancore, it was the Xtians who regularly ate beef (like every Sunday). As I said, there was no Muslims in our village, but they were there in places not too far, close to the village where my extended family lived. The Muslims there were 'mutton and fish' people.

Rony
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2623
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 23:29

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Rony » 05 Nov 2019 21:54

OmkarC wrote:Looks like Jagan is slowly revealing his EJ colors. Chief Secretary LV Subramanyam has been transferred hastily..

Apparently, the Chief Secretary was attempting to weed out non-Hindu administrators from Tirumala.




Rony
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2623
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 23:29

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Rony » 05 Nov 2019 22:05

YSRCP Govt in AP renames Dr APJ Abdul Kalam Pratibha Puraskar Awards after his father; Draws flak for self-aggrandizement and insulting Abdul Kalam

The dynasty bug which bit the Congress resulted in naming and renaming of every award, stadium, national park, roads, bridges, organisations after one family. The same seems to have been happening in Andhra Pradesh under YSRCP. A dynastic party, YSRCP was found by YS Jagan after former CM and his father YS Rajashekar Reddy. Jagan who is the current CM is bent upon following the Congress model. His government now has renamed Dr APJ Abdul Kalam Pratibha Puraskar Awards as "YSR Vidya Puraskars".

The Pratibha Awards were constituted in 2017 by the former TDP Govt under Chandrababu Naidu and were named after DR APJ Abdul Kalam. The aim was to promote quality and excellence in education through the government scheme where meritorious students who excelled in the SSC Public Examinations were awarded with merit certificates, a memento and scholarship to meet the cost of higher education. Now Jagan's government has decided to rename the award after his father YS Rajasekhar Reddy.

Renaming of the award constituted in the memory of APJ Abdul Kalam is not the first instance of self-importance. Ever since it came to power in June 2019, the YSRCP government has passed many such controversial orders renaming government schemes after his father.

The NTR Vaidya Seva was renamed as YSR Arogyasri. Anna NTR Canteen was renamed as Rajanna Canteen. The government had also drawn criticism for repainting several government schools where the Indian National Flag on the school buildings were replaced with the colors of the YSRCP party flag.

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 20345
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby chetak » 06 Nov 2019 00:10

Dileep wrote:As I recall, around my place in North Travancore, it was the Xtians who regularly ate beef (like every Sunday). As I said, there was no Muslims in our village, but they were there in places not too far, close to the village where my extended family lived. The Muslims there were 'mutton and fish' people.


AFAIK, some fairly well to do nonveg xtians make it a polite point to say that they do not eat beef. I have two muslim classmates who openly said that they did not consume beef but otherwise happily ate fish and mutton when we went out together.

It was/is perhaps seen as the choice of only the lower socio economic classes.

how widespread this is I don't know.

OmkarC
BRFite
Posts: 571
Joined: 15 Nov 2016 11:25

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby OmkarC » 06 Nov 2019 05:23

Yagnasri wrote:Jagan had other things in this mind till now and his EJ backers were however active from day one. In fact even under CBN EJ activities are quite openly supported by TDP. Now the drama has stopped for the time being.


The manner in which the Chief Secy was transferred is shameful..his junior, Principal Secretary, Praveen Prakash, sent him his transfer orders. Pravin Prakash is another Christian, who is very close to Jagan and running the CM's office apparently. Official story is a turf war between the principal secretary & chief secretary, but there is a religious angle as well as the Chief secretary has been vocal about non-Hindus managing Hindu endowments.

Meanwhile, Christians are celebrating his ouster and sent a letter thanking Jagan. Another reason- the chief secretary had investigated several TTD board members and found some of them to be of Christian persuasion. Specifically, there is a ruling party MLA who is an SC and serving on TTD board, whom CM's office has been pressurizing him to accept as a Hindu, but she clearly wasn't and the CS stood by his report to oust this person.


Return to “Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: kumarn, Pingale, Sagrawal and 58 guests