Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
ShyamSP
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2443
Joined: 06 Mar 2002 12:31

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby ShyamSP » 26 Dec 2019 23:45

darshan wrote:After briefly living in Telugu community, one thing I realized is that there's tons of casteism within them. Just boggled my mind. Though to my surprise, given the stereotype of southern population being more educated percentage wise than Gujarati people, they were as illiterate as they come. Reminds me of a saying in Gujarati, one got educated but never learned anything. We GJ people figured out long ago that there can never be enough brahmin population in India and have enough power to do things that people claimed. Simple common sense. We didn't have to go to school to learn that. Just looking around was enough to realize who was taking advantage of who. Long ago, sects like swaminarayana gave more than enough competition to traitor brahmins appointed by invaders and got their hold on mandirs loosened.

Now days only casteism I see in GJ is related to reservation and quota bias. Essentially, the casteism is being reincarnated due to reservation system that will have component of violence at some point in future when non reservation families say that they have had enough and only violence will solve this repression.


Most of casteism issues in AP stem from land disputes and they can be converted into caste discrimination due to SC/ST laws as it is political tool also. There may be some pockets of places it can be genuine/"brahminical" discrimination for historical reasons. But by and large "brahminical" discrimination of SC/ST is gone even 1-2 generations ago but it got morphed between castes that have close daily interactions such as between SCs and landed castes (Reddy/Kapu/Kamma etc in AP). Since cases are booked under SC/ST acts, which now became political tools, they still statistically show up as discrimination cases hiding actual nature of case/fight.

darshan
BRFite
Posts: 1293
Joined: 28 Jan 2008 04:16

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby darshan » 27 Dec 2019 00:00

ShyamSP wrote:Most of casteism issues in AP stem from land disputes and they can be converted into caste discrimination due to SC/ST laws as it is political tool also. There may be some pockets of places it can be genuine/"brahminical" discrimination for historical reasons. But by and large "brahminical" discrimination of SC/ST is gone even 1-2 generations ago but it got morphed between castes that have close daily interactions such as between SCs and landed castes (Reddy/Kapu/Kamma etc in AP). Since cases are booked under SC/ST acts, which now became political tools, they still statistically show up as discrimination cases hiding actual nature of case/fight.


Applying same logic as from GJ, I already suspected that there's no brahmin related casteism except possibly in mandirs. There just can't possibly be enough brahmins to have power centers in reservation days. Though it was pathetic to see them bring their casteism in HoA elections and meetings. And, to prove India's history true, they had no issue making muslim a board member with no additional muslim family in the community as different factions of Telugu people kept fighting. And, they had obvious problem with Modi and his caste so backing GJ Hindu like me was out of the question. They didn't even back MH Hindu. No celebrations of any Hindu festivals in the name of secularism and what not. Glad to have housing market still up to be able to sell the property and run. I rather go back 30 years and live with whites in Huntsville than this people.

ShyamSP
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2443
Joined: 06 Mar 2002 12:31

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby ShyamSP » 27 Dec 2019 00:00

MP Sabbam brings interesting point to deduct why YCP wants to change Capital to Visaka. There are many assigned lands including to ex-service men which can be easily grabbed (kabja) with political and admin process perfected by YSR gang. Probably this kind of corruption is not possible in Amaravati region due to open process so they are moving to Visaka to do "Hyderabad" there. Not sure YCP has "BJP-blessings" too or not to move capital to Visaka, such move can make regional imbalance worse as Visaka is not convenient for may districts in the west/south.

Debate With Sabbam Hari Over AP Capital Change
https://youtu.be/dkjS6M1n7tc?t=1984 (sorry this is in Telugu)

Sachin
Webmaster BR
Posts: 7749
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Undisclosed

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Sachin » 27 Dec 2019 09:21

Krita wrote:But the fact is Dalit atrocities is the worst in Tamilnadu. Periyar's Dravidian magnanimity does not extend till Dalits.

Rony wrote:My understanding is most atrocities on Dalits in TN are carried out by other Shudra BCs and Shudra "upper castes" and not by Brahmins. Its the same in AP too.

Generally when it comes to caste atrocities what I have observed is that a caste is harassed to the maximum by the caste which is just above them. In TN, there are even cases where Schedule Caste folks hitting back on the Schedule tribes (mainly due to elopement of girls etc.). The Brahmins how ever remain the favourite whipping boys, even when their population is miniscule and they don't have any command & control over large swathe of population. It was only in KL that Brahmins generally were big time feudal land lords and had some clout with the kings. In other parts they were just a set of people who made living by working in temples, and came up in life mainly because of their sharp focus on education.

Krita wrote:The Brahmins are far more open minded than these Dravidian goons. The whole Dravidian movement revolved around their hate for Brahmins.

The Brahmins I guess were literally the sitting ducks. And they could not figure out the hatred being spewed against them, and when the Brits left they really did not get much support from any one else. At least in TN; Brahmins were said to be colluding with the Brits as Brahmins with sharp focus on education landed up in many high profile jobs which Indians could get.

Rony
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2895
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 23:29

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Rony » 27 Dec 2019 11:07

darshan wrote: Though it was pathetic to see them bring their casteism in HoA elections and meetings. And, to prove India's history true, they had no issue making muslim a board member with no additional muslim family in the community as different factions of Telugu people kept fighting. And, they had obvious problem with Modi and his caste so backing GJ Hindu like me was out of the question. They didn't even back MH Hindu. No celebrations of any Hindu festivals in the name of secularism and what not. Glad to have housing market still up to be able to sell the property and run. I rather go back 30 years and live with whites in Huntsville than this people.


Most people who are most critical of Telugu casteism or the conversions happening in Telugu lands are Telugus themselves, both outside and inside this forum. And i do believe your claim of Telugus electing a Muslim over other Hindus. Thats a unfortunate divided nature of our people, Telugus and non-Telugus alike. In my earlier days in my previous office, Mumbaikars (most of whom are south asian type urban liberal Hindus) and pakis used to be one group speaking in urdu/hindi enjoying their sufi songs and urdu shayari while Telugus (most of whom are from rural backgrounds with no Hindi knowledge) excluded. Because of those connections, our director who was a Mumbaikar (of Gujju-North Indian descent) elevated a Paki who knows jack shyte as a manager to lord over us over other deserving Telugu candidates.

Telugu people like Gujjus are pragmatic and opportunistic. Even those Telugus who hated Modi (especially the TDP people who hated him the most) until few months back are now putting posters praising him in the hope that he will support them in their protests against Jagan's decision to shift the capital. Regarding Telugus in your community not celebrating Hindu festivals, thats a news to me. Usually Telugus (both in US and India) dont shy away from celebrating Hindu festivals and infact organize big events around it. Most Telugu organizations in US, big and small, irrespective of their caste affiliations organize big events during popular Hindu festivals.

Rony
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2895
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 23:29

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Rony » 27 Dec 2019 11:35

ShyamSP wrote:MP Sabbam brings interesting point to deduct why YCP wants to change Capital to Visaka.
https://youtu.be/dkjS6M1n7tc?t=1984 (sorry this is in Telugu)


Not disputing what he says but isnt he with TDP now (originally from congress) ? Also heard that even Chiranjeevi is supporting the move. He is irrelevant in AP politics but how will his support effect his brother PK's opposition to the move ?

Rony
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2895
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 23:29

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Rony » 27 Dec 2019 11:44

Shekhar gupta has weighed in on the AP capital issue. He could not resist his temptation to drag Modi into this (asking him to talk to Jagan as if Jagan will listen to him) and giving undue praise to his favorite Mughals for "building cities" (As if no one before them built any cities in India.What cities did Mughals built anyway ? Delhi and Lahore were pre-mughal which they looted and Agra is not even a city in true sense). Otherwise a sensible take.

Last edited by Rony on 27 Dec 2019 11:49, edited 3 times in total.

vishvak
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 5640
Joined: 12 Aug 2011 21:19

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby vishvak » 27 Dec 2019 11:48

were pre-mughal which they looted

The looted cities became ghetto like surrounded by pious to gobble over time. You can call them 'work in progress by design from elsewhere'.

mappunni
BRFite
Posts: 129
Joined: 14 Jul 2017 19:07

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby mappunni » 27 Dec 2019 22:49

Has anyone noticed the spate of hate videos by Gelf Mallus from a certain religious tradition of pieces publishing videos of hate on Social media and some apologizing and rest getting away scot-free?

Commies of Kerala hardly take any action. Hope the Mongolian goat herder can chime in.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53900
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby ramana » 28 Dec 2019 07:58

Would be nice to collect in a separate thread.
For research purposes.
Or otherwise!

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53900
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby ramana » 28 Dec 2019 08:01

Rony, Telugu states need to be dissolved just like after Palnadu.
Its heading there. Maybe eventually.
The cussedness is getting out of control.

kiranA
BRFite
Posts: 367
Joined: 25 Dec 2016 09:37

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby kiranA » 30 Dec 2019 04:29

darshan wrote:
ShyamSP wrote:Most of casteism issues in AP stem from land disputes and they can be converted into caste discrimination due to SC/ST laws as it is political tool also. There may be some pockets of places it can be genuine/"brahminical" discrimination for historical reasons. But by and large "brahminical" discrimination of SC/ST is gone even 1-2 generations ago but it got morphed between castes that have close daily interactions such as between SCs and landed castes (Reddy/Kapu/Kamma etc in AP). Since cases are booked under SC/ST acts, which now became political tools, they still statistically show up as discrimination cases hiding actual nature of case/fight.


Applying same logic as from GJ, I already suspected that there's no brahmin related casteism except possibly in mandirs. There just can't possibly be enough brahmins to have power centers in reservation days. Though it was pathetic to see them bring their casteism in HoA elections and meetings. And, to prove India's history true, they had no issue making muslim a board member with no additional muslim family in the community as different factions of Telugu people kept fighting. And, they had obvious problem with Modi and his caste so backing GJ Hindu like me was out of the question. They didn't even back MH Hindu. No celebrations of any Hindu festivals in the name of secularism and what not. Glad to have housing market still up to be able to sell the property and run. I rather go back 30 years and live with whites in Huntsville than this people.


This thread was always about bashing non-brahmin south indians and their "notorious" casteism apparently. Where there is hinduism there will be casteism. Apart from that obvious observation at least the past bashing was tolerable as it used to come from Telugu people themselves. But perhaps emboldened by the bashing in thread one gujarati person "darshan" also joined the party - narrating how horrible it was to live among Telugu people he would rather be with whites. Of course he was careful to preserve his "hall pass" card that is to speak highly of south indian brahmins. Once you do that its open season on other south indian hindus.

Normally I would have considered it rude to rub in but i would like to kindly point out to Darshan sir that gujraties themsevles dont enjoy a great reputation for openness or tolerance within India or worldwide. Of course you might be a nice guy speaking from honest observations then I am also summarizing factual observation on reputation of gujraties. You just need to ask your southern neighbours - the marathis.

Meanwhile the agonies of telugu people under a gujrati officer in Indian consulate in London.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56z5XceL82E

Rony
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2895
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 23:29

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Rony » 30 Dec 2019 04:47

kiranA wrote:Where there is hinduism there will be casteism


Not necessary. Bali does not have caste system. White/African/East Asian converts to Hare Krishna movement dont practice caste system. Many urban Hindus now a days marry inter caste. Even in traditional sense, we never had caste-ism, we had Jati and Varna which were quite flexible and allowed upward mobility to various Jati's. Thats how many shudra Jatis in South India became "upper castes" in modern times. The ancient Indianised Kingdoms of South East Asia( Funan,Ankhor,Srivijaya, Majapahit, Champa) who were influenced by traders and priests from Andhra, Orissa, TN, Bengal had Varna system but no Jati system. Caste-ism as we understand now is relatively new phenomenon.

darshan
BRFite
Posts: 1293
Joined: 28 Jan 2008 04:16

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby darshan » 30 Dec 2019 10:25

kiranA wrote:This thread was always about bashing non-brahmin south indians and their "notorious" casteism apparently. Where there is hinduism there will be casteism. Apart from that obvious observation at least the past bashing was tolerable as it used to come from Telugu people themselves. But perhaps emboldened by the bashing in thread one gujarati person "darshan" also joined the party - narrating how horrible it was to live among Telugu people he would rather be with whites. Of course he was careful to preserve his "hall pass" card that is to speak highly of south indian brahmins. Once you do that its open season on other south indian hindus.

Normally I would have considered it rude to rub in but i would like to kindly point out to Darshan sir that gujraties themsevles dont enjoy a great reputation for openness or tolerance within India or worldwide. Of course you might be a nice guy speaking from honest observations then I am also summarizing factual observation on reputation of gujraties. You just need to ask your southern neighbours - the marathis.

Meanwhile the agonies of telugu people under a gujrati officer in Indian consulate in London.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56z5XceL82E



Buddy I'm not sure where you're heading with this. I would be the last person to have any political savviness. Even in this virtual world. I pretty much operate in binary mode. Hindu vs non Hindu. There are no gray areas. What's unacceptable is unacceptable. We recently sold the home and moved out. Having to debate on whether to celebrate Diwali is non negotiable. And it would be a crime to not call out culprits. When not called out, that's how secularism virus grows.

What's observed is observed. Whites had to accommodate me and Diwali in HoA meetings. Here it was more than two Diwalis gone and Telugu HoA board was still debating whether Hindu festivals should be celebrated or not. My root cause analysis led me to conclude that it was them fighting with other and not getting along. Not exactly GJ vs Telugu problem nor brahmin problem. Simple fact that community with 90%+ Telugu people didn't celebrate any Hindu festival and made a muslim torch bearer because of it.

Living in US for decades and working in MIC, I have lived and worked with magnitude more white people than brown people. Again simple fact and nothing to do with your brahmin garbage. I had grown up seeing south Indians moving into GJ running from caste wars. So go and lecture someone else your stupidity of GJ not welcoming people. Ever heard of parsis, Sindhis, punjabis, etc. in GJ? They are not in GJ zoos by the way.

I don't need to be a genius to know that brahmins don't hold much power when there's around 1 per every 100 in my various school classes and also didn't get free rides. That one nominal brahmin person was just like me and not someone with imaginary power. GJ people took one look at Marathi and mughal brahmin set ups and took them apart without moaning about brahmins and knowing where exactly the power centers were. Because of marginalizing of brahmins and many customs, marathis call us adulterated Hindus but we could care less. We GJ people don't need any hall pass. We recognized and solved the problem called "brahmins" ages ago. Go and check when a sect called Swaminarayana hit the road to bring down religious set ups of mughal and maratha regimes. One of many such sects. We don't cry brahmins and run into the nearest church or mosque. Problem identified and solved. Unfortunately for your kind the root cause identified by GJ people didn't turn out to be casteism and brahmins. Just plain old puppets installed and annointed as brahmins by ruling regimes to prevent natives from learning real religious materials.

There's a simple casteism being developed and it's reservation vs non reservation Hindus.

Go and check something called Amul and Kurien.

And at least study up before throwing random examples like marathis vs Gujarati.
Last edited by hnair on 30 Dec 2019 18:08, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: One week off for caste related downward spiral in Kerala, Andhra thread

kiranA
BRFite
Posts: 367
Joined: 25 Dec 2016 09:37

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby kiranA » 30 Dec 2019 12:00

darshan wrote:
kiranA wrote:This thread was always about bashing non-brahmin south indians and their "notorious" casteism apparently. Where there is hinduism there will be casteism. Apart from that obvious observation at least the past bashing was tolerable as it used to come from Telugu people themselves. But perhaps emboldened by the bashing in thread one gujarati person "darshan" also joined the party - narrating how horrible it was to live among Telugu people he would rather be with whites. Of course he was careful to preserve his "hall pass" card that is to speak highly of south indian brahmins. Once you do that its open season on other south indian hindus.

Normally I would have considered it rude to rub in but i would like to kindly point out to Darshan sir that gujraties themsevles dont enjoy a great reputation for openness or tolerance within India or worldwide. Of course you might be a nice guy speaking from honest observations then I am also summarizing factual observation on reputation of gujraties. You just need to ask your southern neighbours - the marathis.

Meanwhile the agonies of telugu people under a gujrati officer in Indian consulate in London.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56z5XceL82E



Buddy I'm not sure where you're heading with this. I would be the last person to have any political savviness. Even in this virtual world. I pretty much operate in binary mode. Hindu vs non Hindu. There are no gray areas. What's unacceptable is unacceptable. We recently sold the home and moved out. Having to debate on whether to celebrate Diwali is non negotiable. And it would be a crime to not call out culprits. When not called out, that's how secularism virus grows.

What's observed is observed. Whites had to accommodate me and Diwali in HoA meetings. Here it was more than two Diwalis gone and Telugu HoA board was still debating whether Hindu festivals should be celebrated or not. My root cause analysis led me to conclude that it was them fighting with other and not getting along. Not exactly GJ vs Telugu problem nor brahmin problem. Simple fact that community with 90%+ Telugu people didn't celebrate any Hindu festival and made a muslim torch bearer because of it.
.


Nice. There will never be shortage of such anecdotal "observations" . You can peddle this rubbish that Telugus don't celebrate diwali in usa or dont participate in hindu festivals to more gullible sections but I wont allow to pass muster. I have visited many many temples in USA and at least half the major donors happen to be telugu origin people (if not more). Considering they are a more recent immigrant group I dont know what the previous major groups (Gujratis and punjabis) have been doing . The only way you can be true atleast to yourself is that you are completely innocent of life beyond your HoA which ofcourse is not possible considering you participate in internet boards etc.

Just like how sensitively you jumped when I bought out a common perception of gujraties be aware others too have such sensibilities and be more circumspect and respectful. You used pretty strong words - let me quote again "they were as illiterate as they come. Reminds me of a saying in Gujarati, one got educated but never learned anything"

Having said that I am fascinated by your observation of foreign brahmins appointed by mughals. I am fascinated because I have been studying kerala history these days and guess what the British census reports foreign brahmins in kerala!!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_Kerala
The last comprehensive caste census of Kerala was undertaken by the British in 1931 (the Census of 1941 also asked caste, but the tables were never published).[27]

Caste Population (1931) Percentage (1931)
Malayali Brahmin 50,240 0.51%
Foreign Brahmin 121,748 1.24%

Where did they come from - they are definitely not tamil brahmins or kannada brahmins - British have clear categories from them. I have also read about Kerala kings agreements with jewish and arab traders charters. Could it be them ? very fascinating.
Last edited by hnair on 30 Dec 2019 18:05, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Long history of past thread disruptions is being repeated this time too. One month ban

OmkarC
BRFite
Posts: 599
Joined: 15 Nov 2016 11:25

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby OmkarC » 30 Dec 2019 12:53

darshan wrote:
kiranA wrote:This thread was always about bashing non-brahmin south indians and their "notorious" casteism apparently. Where there is hinduism there will be casteism. Apart from that obvious observation at least the past bashing was tolerable as it used to come from Telugu people themselves. But perhaps emboldened by the bashing in thread one gujarati person "darshan" also joined the party - narrating how horrible it was to live among Telugu people he would rather be with whites. Of course he was careful to preserve his "hall pass" card that is to speak highly of south indian brahmins. Once you do that its open season on other south indian hindus.

Normally I would have considered it rude to rub in but i would like to kindly point out to Darshan sir that gujraties themsevles dont enjoy a great reputation for openness or tolerance within India or worldwide. Of course you might be a nice guy speaking from honest observations then I am also summarizing factual observation on reputation of gujraties. You just need to ask your southern neighbours - the marathis.

Meanwhile the agonies of telugu people under a gujrati officer in Indian consulate in London.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56z5XceL82E



Buddy I'm not sure where you're heading with this. I would be the last person to have any political savviness. Even in this virtual world. I pretty much operate in binary mode. Hindu vs non Hindu. There are no gray areas. What's unacceptable is unacceptable. We recently sold the home and moved out. Having to debate on whether to celebrate Diwali is non negotiable. And it would be a crime to not call out culprits. When not called out, that's how secularism virus grows.

What's observed is observed. Whites had to accommodate me and Diwali in HoA meetings. Here it was more than two Diwalis gone and Telugu HoA board was still debating whether Hindu festivals should be celebrated or not. My root cause analysis led me to conclude that it was them fighting with other and not getting along. Not exactly GJ vs Telugu problem nor brahmin problem. Simple fact that community with 90%+ Telugu people didn't celebrate any Hindu festival and made a muslim torch bearer because of it.

Living in US for decades and working in MIC, I have lived and worked with magnitude more white people than brown people. Again simple fact and nothing to do with your brahmin garbage. I had grown up seeing south Indians moving into GJ running from caste wars. So go and lecture someone else your stupidity of GJ not welcoming people. Ever heard of parsis, Sindhis, punjabis, etc. in GJ? They are not in GJ zoos by the way.

I don't need to be a genius to know that brahmins don't hold much power when there's around 1 per every 100 in my various school classes and also didn't get free rides. That one nominal brahmin person was just like me and not someone with imaginary power. GJ people took one look at Marathi and mughal brahmin set ups and took them apart without moaning about brahmins and knowing where exactly the power centers were. Because of marginalizing of brahmins and many customs, marathis call us adulterated Hindus but we could care less. We GJ people don't need any hall pass. We recognized and solved the problem called "brahmins" ages ago. Go and check when a sect called Swaminarayana hit the road to bring down religious set ups of mughal and maratha regimes. One of many such sects. We don't cry brahmins and run into the nearest church or mosque. Problem identified and solved. Unfortunately for your kind the root cause identified by GJ people didn't turn out to be casteism and brahmins. Just plain old puppets installed and annointed as brahmins by ruling regimes to prevent natives from learning real religious materials.

There's a simple casteism being developed and it's reservation vs non reservation Hindus.

Go and check something called Amul and Kurien.

And at least study up before throwing random examples like marathis vs Gujarati.



Telugu people have only been prioritizing regional issues and don't have any vested interest to think about national issues yet. That's what happens when you don't share an international border with an enemy nation nor send out any folks to armed forces.

Perhaps one way to break out of this petty regionalist mentality is perhaps to revive Advaniji's old proposal of having a 2-party system like in the US ?

Limit people's choices between two distinct ideologies rather than a bunch of mutually competing caste groups aka the modern day dynastic parties.

Either that or expecting a "change of heart" in Andhra/TN folks to become more "nationalist" in their electoral preferences, which looks nothing more than a pipe dream.

If a 2-party system is instituted, the regional TMC, SP, TDPs, YSRCPs, NCP, Sonia Senas, DMKs, JDxs, etc or the neo-razakarite MIM.. they will be forced to merge their identities into a single leftist block and come up with one leader to fight the nationalists. Let Babu & Jagan, Akhilesh or Maya, duke it out..

While obviously not perfect, at least in US, it prevented every single ethnicity (Italian, Irish, German, English, Hispanic, etc..) from propping up their own parochial political outfit or making deals with globalist enemy forces for a better cut for their ethnic group in favor of championing anti-nationalist causes.

This right now is the biggest problem Indian democracy is facing.. these over-ambitious caste/regional dynastic parties cutting deals with the enemy in exchange for a slice of power.

sanjayc
BRFite
Posts: 337
Joined: 22 Aug 2016 21:40

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby sanjayc » 30 Dec 2019 13:14

^^ Agree with you. Democracy with unlimited number of political parties leads to fragmentation of national power and is a dream come true for BIF to manipulate the system for self-destruction

hnair
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3787
Joined: 03 May 2006 01:31
Location: Trivandrum

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby hnair » 30 Dec 2019 18:06

KiranA, you are off for a month, for being a repeat offender. darshan, off for a week, since you just got warned for bigoted posts against other Indian citizens on 25-Dec.

Rest of posters here, when commenting about your observations about people from other states, do keep in mind to not stray into general, caste or linguistic chauvinistic territory! This is not needed here.

Rony
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2895
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 23:29

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Rony » 31 Dec 2019 09:11

40 Crore donation to RSS affiliates by a single individual ? :shock: :eek:

BTW, he is a Kamma and like Tripureni Hanuman Chowdary is a staunch nationalist . So its important not to stereotype all Kammas as TDP castiests. He is the same person, ex-IAF who earlier donated Rs 1.08 crore to the defence forces fund

https://twitter.com/rajkarsewak/status/ ... 09536?s=20

Chalasani Prasad Chowdary (CBR Prasad) well known industrialist from Vijayawada (Andhra) yesterday at Shishu Mandir old students meet has donated nearly Rs 40 Cr (Yes, forty crore) in cash/fixed assets to RSS.

Image


Chalasani Bala Ramaiah (CBR) Prasad ji is active in Sevabharati (RSS) from Vijayawada (Kethanakonda Mandal), Andhra Pradesh.

@malapati Replying to @rajkarsewak
This photo is of different person? What's the source?

@rajkarsewak
I traveled with him that way I recognise him.

@mohanlalith Replying to @rajkarsewak
RSS ?? Are you sure sangh will accept funds ? Dont spread fake news !!!

@rajkarsewak
To Parivar kshetras like Vidyapeeth. I was there as he announced from the stage wher Mohanji Bhagwat was sitting. Also i met him after that.

@mohanlalith
Nice ! Parivar kshetras are different and Rss is different so better you write in that way Brother! Atleast we should have that clarity

Rony
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2895
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 23:29

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Rony » 31 Dec 2019 09:44

Within few days of Jagan Reddy's U-turn and announcing he will not support NPR and NRC, CBN does his own yet another U-turn and announces he too wont support NPR and NRC and that "Jagan is fooling minorities". So its back to "who will appease muslims/christians more" race in AP between ruling and main opposition parties. CBN never learns and always falls into Jagan's trap. In Telangana, Razakar Owaisi's slave KCR has already announced that he wont support CAA or NPR or NRC.


Image

Krita
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 71
Joined: 23 Jul 2009 13:33

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Krita » 31 Dec 2019 20:47

kiranA wrote:
darshan wrote:

Buddy I'm not sure where you're heading with this. I would be the last person to have any political savviness. Even in this virtual world. I pretty much operate in binary mode. Hindu vs non Hindu. There are no gray areas. What's unacceptable is unacceptable. We recently sold the home and moved out. Having to debate on whether to celebrate Diwali is non negotiable. And it would be a crime to not call out culprits. When not called out, that's how secularism virus grows.

What's observed is observed. Whites had to accommodate me and Diwali in HoA meetings. Here it was more than two Diwalis gone and Telugu HoA board was still debating whether Hindu festivals should be celebrated or not. My root cause analysis led me to conclude that it was them fighting with other and not getting along. Not exactly GJ vs Telugu problem nor brahmin problem. Simple fact that community with 90%+ Telugu people didn't celebrate any Hindu festival and made a muslim torch bearer because of it.
.


Nice. There will never be shortage of such anecdotal "observations" . You can peddle this rubbish that Telugus don't celebrate diwali in usa or dont participate in hindu festivals to more gullible sections but I wont allow to pass muster. I have visited many many temples in USA and at least half the major donors happen to be telugu origin people (if not more). Considering they are a more recent immigrant group I dont know what the previous major groups (Gujratis and punjabis) have been doing . The only way you can be true atleast to yourself is that you are completely innocent of life beyond your HoA which ofcourse is not possible considering you participate in internet boards etc.

Just like how sensitively you jumped when I bought out a common perception of gujraties be aware others too have such sensibilities and be more circumspect and respectful. You used pretty strong words - let me quote again "they were as illiterate as they come. Reminds me of a saying in Gujarati, one got educated but never learned anything"

Having said that I am fascinated by your observation of foreign brahmins appointed by mughals. I am fascinated because I have been studying kerala history these days and guess what the British census reports foreign brahmins in kerala!!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_Kerala
The last comprehensive caste census of Kerala was undertaken by the British in 1931 (the Census of 1941 also asked caste, but the tables were never published).[27]

Caste Population (1931) Percentage (1931)
Malayali Brahmin 50,240 0.51%
Foreign Brahmin 121,748 1.24%

Where did they come from - they are definitely not tamil brahmins or kannada brahmins - British have clear categories from them. I have also read about Kerala kings agreements with jewish and arab traders charters. Could it be them ? very fascinating.

Hope you are not learning Kerala history smoking Idukki gold.
Source : wiki, very credible indeed, My Namboodari friend who happens to be the tantri of Ambalapuzha had great laugh at this, word used was ....shumbhan... :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

KL Dubey
BRFite
Posts: 646
Joined: 16 Dec 2016 22:34

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby KL Dubey » 01 Jan 2020 08:51

OmkarC wrote:If a 2-party system is instituted, the regional TMC, SP, TDPs, YSRCPs, NCP, Sonia Senas, DMKs, JDxs, etc or the neo-razakarite MIM.. they will be forced to merge their identities into a single leftist block and come up with one leader to fight the nationalists. Let Babu & Jagan, Akhilesh or Maya, duke it out..

While obviously not perfect, at least in US, it prevented every single ethnicity (Italian, Irish, German, English, Hispanic, etc..) from propping up their own parochial political outfit or making deals with globalist enemy forces for a better cut for their ethnic group in favor of championing anti-nationalist causes.

This right now is the biggest problem Indian democracy is facing.. these over-ambitious caste/regional dynastic parties cutting deals with the enemy in exchange for a slice of power.


I agree this is a vexing problem, and have already proposed a practical solution to this. In summary:

- Only parties with recognized 'national' status (according to the EC guidelines) can contest national elections to the Lok Sabha.

- The Rajya Sabha already exists for representing the states. State parties can send MPs there in the usual ways.

- National parties can still ally with state parties for LS elections in terms of combining their vote shares, but only national party candidates can contest. These alliances can also operate in the Rajya Sabha as needed, and in all state elections as usual.

OmkarC
BRFite
Posts: 599
Joined: 15 Nov 2016 11:25

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby OmkarC » 02 Jan 2020 04:54

KL Dubey wrote:
OmkarC wrote:If a 2-party system is instituted, the regional TMC, SP, TDPs, YSRCPs, NCP, Sonia Senas, DMKs, JDxs, etc or the neo-razakarite MIM.. they will be forced to merge their identities into a single leftist block and come up with one leader to fight the nationalists. Let Babu & Jagan, Akhilesh or Maya, duke it out..

While obviously not perfect, at least in US, it prevented every single ethnicity (Italian, Irish, German, English, Hispanic, etc..) from propping up their own parochial political outfit or making deals with globalist enemy forces for a better cut for their ethnic group in favor of championing anti-nationalist causes.

This right now is the biggest problem Indian democracy is facing.. these over-ambitious caste/regional dynastic parties cutting deals with the enemy in exchange for a slice of power.


I agree this is a vexing problem, and have already proposed a practical solution to this. In summary:

- Only parties with recognized 'national' status (according to the EC guidelines) can contest national elections to the Lok Sabha.

- The Rajya Sabha already exists for representing the states. State parties can send MPs there in the usual ways.

- National parties can still ally with state parties for LS elections in terms of combining their vote shares, but only national party candidates can contest. These alliances can also operate in the Rajya Sabha as needed, and in all state elections as usual.


Good ideas, but I think giving more than 2 choices to any voter will only give scope for hanky panky politics.. multi-party system places too much faith on voters' intelligence anyway.

It would be great to force all these caste groups out of electoral process and perhaps encourage them to move into family-run businesses.. not even have them in the fringe of any option to voters.

Rony
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2895
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 23:29

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Rony » 02 Jan 2020 06:58

Having a 2 party system is a good idea. But that by itself wont make any difference to caste politics. The caste groups will simply shift their affiliation from their regional parties to one of the national parties. Before YSRCP, Congress was the original Reddy party of AP. And during 1950s, CPI, then the main opposition party of Congress in AP was the party of Kammas.

KL Dubey
BRFite
Posts: 646
Joined: 16 Dec 2016 22:34

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby KL Dubey » 02 Jan 2020 08:27

OmkarC wrote:
Good ideas, but I think giving more than 2 choices to any voter will only give scope for hanky panky politics.. multi-party system places too much faith on voters' intelligence anyway.



I disagree. There is no truly 2-party system imposed in any large democracy. You cannot entirely restrict the national election to 2 parties. In the USA and UK, there were multiple parties but over time they coalesced into two major parties.

In India, the underlying context of politics is the civilizational battle between the Hindu/Dharmic majority and a motley group of "others" who are intent on undermining it. So over time, national elections will coalesce to basically a two-party system with BJP+ on the dharmic side and a yet to be defined grouping or consolidation of the other side.

I do agree that the practice of allowing small family-run parties (which act totally in their own interest and adapt to any situation) to contest national elections can muddy the picture royally.

However, it is a two-edged sword. Right now I would say the fragmentation of the opposition into diverse parties helps Modi and Shah in national elections, but makes things more difficult in state elections. I'd rather have the national elections go well than the state elections.

The other thing I forgot to mention - and which would be a great short-term fix - would be Modi's idea of holding national and state elections simultaneously.

KL Dubey
BRFite
Posts: 646
Joined: 16 Dec 2016 22:34

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby KL Dubey » 02 Jan 2020 08:36

OmkarC wrote:It would be great to force all these caste groups out of electoral process and perhaps encourage them to move into family-run businesses.. not even have them in the fringe of any option to voters.


They *are* already running family business empires. Getting themselves elected is often a way to ensure political cover and government preferential benefits for their nefarious business practices.

You cannot enact laws that prohibit caste groups from forming parties and contesting elections. But you can do what Modi and Shah are doing - slowly putting these guys out of commission by weaning away the voters (especially the younger crowd) from narrow caste/community interests.

OmkarC
BRFite
Posts: 599
Joined: 15 Nov 2016 11:25

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby OmkarC » 02 Jan 2020 11:14

Great discussion all..

Rony wrote:Having a 2 party system is a good idea. But that by itself wont make any difference to caste politics. The caste groups will simply shift their affiliation from their regional parties to one of the national parties. Before YSRCP, Congress was the original Reddy party of AP. And during 1950s, CPI, then the main opposition party of Congress in AP was the party of Kammas.


Nope, the suggestion is that they must either belong to rightist nationalist block or leftist nationalist block.. no regional parties should be allowed by law.. your kamma, reddy, Maratha, Yadav, Dalit, muslim, etc parties won't even exist, individual talented leaders interested in politics can join the right or left blocks, both nationalist. In brief, constitution needs to permanently enshrine a BJP-like party will have either leadership or opposition role, permanently, in all states of the country including the southern & NE states.

KL Dubey wrote: You cannot enact laws that prohibit caste groups from forming parties and contesting elections. But you can do what Modi and Shah are doing - slowly putting these guys out of commission by weaning away the voters (especially the younger crowd) from narrow caste/community interests.


To ensure the civilizational interests of India are preserved, there must be some thought put to define the nature of the parties that can contest elections all levels. Start with the ideal and get that discussion going at least in intellectual circles.. Modiji's way is currently what he can do, but may not have a lasting impact as the voters are fickle and will go with whoever captures their fancy. Modiji is also not veering away youth as effectively, as there are parties like TRS, which are able to attract voters based on cursory development and not at all Dharmic, keep playing into the hands of BIFs due to their apathy on nationalist issues.

Rony
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2895
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 23:29

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Rony » 02 Jan 2020 13:16

OmkarC wrote: Nope, the suggestion is that they must either belong to rightist nationalist block or leftist nationalist block.. no regional parties should be allowed by law.. your kamma, reddy, Maratha, Yadav, Dalit, muslim, etc parties won't even exist...


Thats how it was before the emergence of YSRCP and TDP in AP. Congress was the centrist block. CPI was the left block. Irrespective of how they functioned at the national level, when came to state they became caste parties, giving only lip service to their party ideologies.

Imagine a scenario where YSRCP and TDP goes away and got replaced by Congress and BJP. All YSRCP votebank (Reddy, SC, Christian, Muslim) will shift to Congress and all TDP vote bank (Kamma, BCs, Rajus) will go to BJP. At the state level, there wont be any specific "caste parties" anymore but caste politics will continue as it was before. So what changed at the state level ?

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53900
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby ramana » 02 Jan 2020 17:28

Please read the tweet series by BRF member on Kerala economy.

https://twitter.com/Indianempire/status ... 24448?s=19

Yagnasri
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9631
Joined: 29 May 2007 18:03

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Yagnasri » 02 Jan 2020 18:04

Rony wrote:So what changed at the state level ?


It may not be so fast. There is no huge vote blocks of Kammas or Reddys in AP. Kaapus are big block and has power to change the fortunes provided they unite and become a vote block. But they have their own divisions. When Chiranjivi and Pavan Kalyan tried to make them a vote bank they failed.

The problem in AP is the power of money and established power structure that includes now Telugu MSM. While Kammas are in power structure from the time of TDP period Reddys were there from the start. In that I think AP is something like Haryana without a Jat vote bank but with Jat power and money.

Other and much biggest problem is the entire state and people is horribly mercantile. This largely prevents any ideological mobilizations of voters. Politicos from at least 1982 made voting as all above money distribution and freebees. While they alone will not make you win if you dont do it people think you have no chance of winning and will not vote for you.

Rony
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2895
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 23:29

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Rony » 03 Jan 2020 08:20

Yagnasri wrote:[Other and much biggest problem is the entire state and people is horribly mercantile. This largely prevents any ideological mobilizations of voters.


Exactly. The menace of EJs and their conversions too can be traced to this mercantile mentality.

Yagnasri
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9631
Joined: 29 May 2007 18:03

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Yagnasri » 03 Jan 2020 09:23

Correct. People who have no reason to become a EJ will become EJ once they get money and see opportunity to make more money.

ShyamSP
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2443
Joined: 06 Mar 2002 12:31

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby ShyamSP » 03 Jan 2020 09:29

Yagnasri wrote:Correct. People who have no reason to become a EJ will become EJ once they get money and see opportunity to make more money.

Same mercantilism will also work if EJ converts benefits are taken out. BJP can call out that if people take Rice bags they won't get reservations.

Yagnasri
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9631
Joined: 29 May 2007 18:03

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Yagnasri » 03 Jan 2020 09:31

Already such people are at least being exposed in public. That is the first step. Some court cases are being filed. Rest hopefully follows.

Rony
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2895
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 23:29

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Rony » 03 Jan 2020 10:21

ShyamSP wrote:Same mercantilism will also work if EJ converts benefits are taken out. BJP can call out that if people take Rice bags they won't get reservations.


True. Taking out reservation benefits for converted will go a long way in stemming the tide. But Central BJP govt can do only so much when the State govts are in control of other party's (YSRCP, TDP, DMK, CPM, Congress) who go to extra lengths in appeasing EJs. That is why capturing state govts by dharmic Hindu parties and installing a dharmic Hindu as CM is key and first step. And then they can go after the EJs and converted folks who are abusing the SC/ST benefits. Article 370, CAA, Ram mandir were pending since decades. All it took was two committed Hindus (Modi/Shah) to turn everything around in 6 months.

OmkarC
BRFite
Posts: 599
Joined: 15 Nov 2016 11:25

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby OmkarC » 04 Jan 2020 04:15



Not sure if this has been posted before, but PFI received funds from Turkey, Qatar & Dubai..

Ball is in AS court to ban PFI and stifle fund flow from Gulf..

Vayutuvan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10305
Joined: 20 Jun 2011 04:36

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Vayutuvan » 04 Jan 2020 07:36

What is this chest-beating of "We are mercantile cunning brahmin-bania onlee" going on with us gultes here? :eek:

Yagnasri
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9631
Joined: 29 May 2007 18:03

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Yagnasri » 04 Jan 2020 07:42

Mercantileness of Glutes is now well known now sir. There is no self-respect or pride left in the so-called leadership of political parties in the state.

Rony
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2895
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 23:29

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby Rony » 04 Jan 2020 22:16

Is this just a fluke or the ground is really slowly shifting in TN ?

https://twitter.com/vetriii/status/1213 ... 15073?s=20

#TNElectionResult

BJP Won
GRAMA PANCHAYATS - 6
DISTRICT PANCHAYATS - 87

BJP ahead of CPM, CPI, VCK, MDMK, AMMK, NTK.. Fools were shouting that BJP can't win a single seat in TN but ppl of TN has voted for BJP & lotus started blooming in many parts of TN.

This is just a start..

bahdada
BRFite
Posts: 163
Joined: 27 Nov 2008 19:50

Re: Kerala, Andhra and Tamil Nadu - news and strategy thread

Postby bahdada » 05 Jan 2020 18:50

kiranA wrote:
darshan wrote:
Applying same logic as from GJ, I already suspected that there's no brahmin related casteism except possibly in mandirs. There just can't possibly be enough brahmins to have power centers in reservation days. Though it was pathetic to see them bring their casteism in HoA elections and meetings. And, to prove India's history true, they had no issue making muslim a board member with no additional muslim family in the community as different factions of Telugu people kept fighting. And, they had obvious problem with Modi and his caste so backing GJ Hindu like me was out of the question. They didn't even back MH Hindu. No celebrations of any Hindu festivals in the name of secularism and what not. Glad to have housing market still up to be able to sell the property and run. I rather go back 30 years and live with whites in Huntsville than this people.


This thread was always about bashing non-brahmin south indians and their "notorious" casteism apparently. Where there is hinduism there will be casteism. Apart from that obvious observation at least the past bashing was tolerable as it used to come from Telugu people themselves. But perhaps emboldened by the bashing in thread one gujarati person "darshan" also joined the party - narrating how horrible it was to live among Telugu people he would rather be with whites. Of course he was careful to preserve his "hall pass" card that is to speak highly of south indian brahmins. Once you do that its open season on other south indian hindus.

Normally I would have considered it rude to rub in but i would like to kindly point out to Darshan sir that gujraties themsevles dont enjoy a great reputation for openness or tolerance within India or worldwide. Of course you might be a nice guy speaking from honest observations then I am also summarizing factual observation on reputation of gujraties. You just need to ask your southern neighbours - the marathis.

Meanwhile the agonies of telugu people under a gujrati officer in Indian consulate in London.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56z5XceL82E



Thanks for this. I’ll be damned if a dwarf gas station attendant with a superiority complex gets to isht over any community.


Return to “Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: nandakumar, ritesh, Rony, Sachin, sarulan, Sathish_A, sooraj, TKiran and 69 guests