2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

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Gus
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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Gus » 19 Jun 2019 20:58

Suraj wrote:If you want to run around waving a white flag, that is your prerogative :) Don't get in the way of others, that's all.


I don't get the woe is us, we doomed, zomg zomg either..

and the overt/covert longing of reconquista or chinese style stuff that I see a lot on so-called RW twitter..

Have faith (pun intended)..

have faith that we can overcome these challenges. We can (and are in process of) stop the money induced conversions by 1. stopping inflow of money, 2. actually uplifting the abject poor into lower middle class

we have vastly better stuff to attract the upper middle classes ..our vast array of philosophies and traditions that covers the spectrum of all spiritual quests ever known to mankind, our gateway stuff like yoga and art forms, the new-age gurus like sri sri and sadhguru etc, the force of truth in books and commentaries like Gita and Upanishads etc....a hindu renaissance will attract them..

The middle class converts will be the hard one because they are now a closed and hardened group and have some protective layers that will be hard to peel..but its ok...their kids can be brought in.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby vijayk » 19 Jun 2019 21:12

pankajs wrote:How long before any dilution on RTE is spun as anti-poor, anti-OBC, anti-ST/SC? The very base Modi is trying to cultivate.

While in theory RTE needs to go the BJP has to be very careful. Any change has to be thought through and talking points carefully prepared.

Why don't we try to brainstorm the outrage that will follow in the name of the poor and counters.


True. There are all these RTE activists who collect candidates and chase these schools especially in places like Delhi. They even blackmail and collect money from schools. AAP frauds do it too. Many state Govt. don't pay any money for the kids who are enrolled. Maharashtra is notorious.

All the schools which don't receive payment should get together and file cases against the state and force changes to the law as they are not being paid according to the contract.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Suraj » 19 Jun 2019 21:14

Karan M wrote:You are right regarding moves that can be taken. I dont understand why Govt is bumbling on RTE, or freeing temples. Some moves on core issues have to be taken. I am not a fan of only focusing on development myself, but given the scale of challenges faced by Modi led GOI have reluctantly agreed to/ understand some aspects of the path taken, given our current situation.

Does any entity actually have a draft proposal of edits to the RTE Act ? Or what constitutes changes to current laws (which laws ??) related to ‘freeing up temples ?’

I would challenge the folks waving white flags and moaning to demonstrate expertise in the subject matter by finding and reading about the legal and legislative background and explaining to us:
* which laws are in question ? Provide reference support from prsindia or elsewhere so others can read the law in the letter .
* what is the issue with the existing law - what part of wording ?
* what aren’t potential ways to reword or rewrite and fix it ?

Lots of people show great capability at being empty noisemakers . Some constantly ignore mod interventions and use unwelcome language as well .

There’s nothing that is forum gains from your endless moaning and but..but..ing on a repeat loop. Like I posted earlier, don’t get in the way of others. You’re a constant source of negative energy and quite likely are on several peoples’ ignore lists because they can’t stand your constant negativity.

That’s why I stated the challenge - how many of you writing angry complaining posts can demonstrate the ability to channelize your concerns into positive energy and become a forum domain expert of the legal and legislative background of the matter ?

I’m guessing No One, because as we have seen repeatedly as mods, when people who write passionately and emotionally are asked to focus their energy on becoming domain experts, they run off with tail between legs.

Most folks who take the above personally will also just argue ‘but we are offering constructive criticism’ . No you’re not . You’re just moaning , because you haven’t shown you even know the precise laws and legislative background involved and the underlying detail within them . Describing precise detail of the law, the problem with it, and potential changes, is constructive. Repeatedly saying ‘why doesn’t someone do something ??’ is not.


Like they say, opinions are like oiseules, everyone has one. Ones ability to repeatedly moan about something is not a high value skill unless you’re a professional rudali getting paid for it ...

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Prasad » 19 Jun 2019 21:20

CRE in this case however isn't a serial process at all. Nobody doubts that Vikas is needed. Doing so is absurd. But your own functionaries saying it is perfectly ok to have non-hindus running temples, your own minister jumping up n down with glee on firecracker bans, not to mention 5 years of RTE + expanding MSDP a scheme whos thoughtprocess namo vehemently opposed as guj cm. We have no option but to wait and watch. Doesn't mean things are being done. Far from it. Even the fcra cutoff is tip of the iceberg.

What action would W&CD ministry cleaning the closet and regulating childcare/orphanages in the country? Hundreds of which are run illegaly by you know who? Or Childline. These ARE Cap. Not Rollback. These dont need legislative changes as Suraj wants. RTE ties back into the NEP that Javdekar dilly-dallied for years! RTE is castigated for not focussing on learning outcomes. Even the NEP released now has a lot of things that need work. These are executive actions i.e. Minimum that govt can do without needing parliamentary route. RTE needs 93rd amendment to go. For that Art 25,26,30 guarantees need to be given to Hindus too. Court judgements exist that guarantee freedom from govt interference in edu institutions run by religious minorities on this basis. That either extends to Hindus negating their advantage and creating a level playing field or should be removed. This is what needs to be done in Parl. Same with enacting a law in Parl prohibiting govt takeover, administration of any and all religous bodies and places of worship, rendering all relevant state laws illegal. This n all isn't new.

And Karan, my highlighting Europe wasn't about current day or medieval Europe but at the fall of pagan Europe. First Rome was "conquered" and then rapidly entire pagan europe was converted by sword and guile. The census numbers are nowhere near true and you know it. The Fall of Rome despite Julian's best short-lived efforts are a glaring example for us. We cannot play 4D chess for 15 years waiting for development to happen before trying anything. By then it will be too late. History shows us.

Anyway, enough from me on this. No point ranting more.
Last edited by Prasad on 19 Jun 2019 21:34, edited 1 time in total.

Mort Walker
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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Mort Walker » 19 Jun 2019 21:22

Every year from April to the end of June, there is a water criss for nearly 2/3 of the country. Much of this is solvable by river interlinking, canals and man made lake networks. The problem of course is money and agreement between states and the center. This is solvable in the next 5-10 years by the Modi government. Should it happen, the people will vote BJP for 2 generations.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Prasad » 19 Jun 2019 21:36

Mort Walker wrote:Every year from April to the end of June, there is a water criss for nearly 2/3 of the country. Much of this is solvable by river interlinking, canals and man made lake networks. The problem of course is money and agreement between states and the center. This is solvable in the next 5-10 years by the Modi government. Should it happen, the people will vote BJP for 2 generations.

River linking is the easier way out with unknown ecological repurcussions that we have no way to truly fathom. What is needed is distributed water sources, better usage and an aware populace. That is tough and people wont change without whining and voting out those who try to bring about such change. Even a hundred desalination plants up n down the western and eastern coasts wont be enough. How many villages, towns and cities have RWH right now?

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Mort Walker » 19 Jun 2019 21:40

^^^Whatever method works is fine, but the center must deal with it because those months are a water crisis for the bulk of India’s population. If this is solved for 25% of the population, then great political good will has been earned.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Prasad » 19 Jun 2019 21:47

One last example and I'm done. This is Thanjavur. Not Kanyakumari which you think is a lost case anyway - Despite Court orders to allow building a temple, Church blocks any and all attempts to do so. Next time you're in TN, rent a PT and ride around and tell me what I'm seeing is hallucinations

https://twitter.com/hmrss1980/status/11 ... 8299747329

Add to - https://swarajyamag.com/ideas/barring-t ... gs-to-come
https://twitter.com/tnhrmovement/status ... 64?lang=en

Thanjavur Periyakovil thEr was stopped by a nearby Church. We will wait for vikas in 15 years sure.

You know how Rome was a long game? https://www.thehindu.com/features/frida ... 554614.ece

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Prasad » 19 Jun 2019 21:54

Mort Walker wrote:^^^Whatever method works is fine, but the center must deal with it because those months are a water crisis for the bulk of India’s population. If this is solved for 25% of the population, then great political good will has been earned.

It is a crisis of our own making Mort-ji. Read this thread - https://twitter.com/MODIfiedTamilan/sta ... 3252536321
Bangalore is similar.

ramana
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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby ramana » 19 Jun 2019 23:09

Sachin wrote:A tactically brilliant move from Premachandran MP of RSP (Revolutionary Socialist Party; a party which has presence only in few districts in the small state of KL). He moves the first private bill in the first session of the new Lok Sabha.
Sabarimala: Premachandran to move private bill to stop women

I would consider this as a brilliant move because;
1. He has taken the initiative to bring back the issue of Sabari Mala as soon as Lok Sabha met.
2. The bill has been listed to be put up in Lok Sabha, which means there is merit in the bill.
3. The BJP and Congress will now have to spell out their stance clearly on the issue. Though I have a feeling that BJP will chicken out saying "the matter is sub-judice and let us wait for Hon. SC courts to dispose of the review petitions".
4. The commies of Kerala who took a beating in Lok Sabha elections would be able to use any inaction/weaseling out of the BJP in the next round of state elections.


Sachin,
Its very clear you support the Leftist/Commies in Kerala.
Please stop this BJP bashing under secular rubric.

It is BJP workers who were murdered in Kerala much o the glee of the Kerala seculars.
This is exactly what I pointed out in my post to Suraj.
Enough.
ramana

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby ramana » 19 Jun 2019 23:11

Prasad wrote:
Karan M wrote:The EJ angle into mass conversions will be addressed by the change in socio-economic living conditions as Suraj has so clearly demonstrated.
The presence of an assertive, non Hinduphobic elite, middle class driving the leadership agenda may end up allowing the Indian state to deal with the threat posed by Islamist extremism as well.

Unfortunately there is such a thing as critical mass. Kanyakumari constituency is a glaring example. NE takeover is too despite BJP coming to power (by pandering to the church there too). Same with Goa where despite all the hindutva talk, bjp genuflects in front of the church on certain issues which led to splintering of the party. Let us not kid ourselves that EJs will sit quietly while prosperity becomes widespread. There is already pushback. And there is no guarantee that prosperity will imply lack of brainwashing. It doesn't take much to wipe out whats existing to be replaced by something else entirely despite prosperity. Modern-day europe is another glaring example.

One without the other is useless we all agree. Waiting for godot is a fool's errand.


Godot has arrived.
And is called Amit Shah.

ramana
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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby ramana » 19 Jun 2019 23:15

Suraj wrote:
Prasad wrote:Unfortunately there is such a thing as critical mass.

Since we're talking in nukular terms, there is also such a thing as fission, decay and half life.

A bloc created using inducements of money and favors, is one that's very easily plundered as well.

To use another nukular term, the goal is to cap, rollback and eliminate.


Money is the oxygen of these conversion mafia.
already 46K NGOs have been shut down under misuse of FCRA.
Next step is to cut of FCRA legally.
Problem is there needs to be an alternate funding mechanism to replace it.
Here the many benefit schemes to supplant those are being rolled out.

One big worry is foreign parked funds of big wigs will be tapped to fund conversion.
Eg Andhra politicians have money parked abroad.
This could be at risk unless they divert some loot to the conversion NGOs.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby chetak » 19 Jun 2019 23:26

ramana wrote:
Suraj wrote:Since we're talking in nukular terms, there is also such a thing as fission, decay and half life.

A bloc created using inducements of money and favors, is one that's very easily plundered as well.

To use another nukular term, the goal is to cap, rollback and eliminate.


Money is the oxygen of these conversion mafia.
already 46K NGOs have been shut down under misuse of FCRA.
Next step is to cut of FCRA legally.
Problem is there needs to be an alternate funding mechanism to replace it.
Here the many benefit schemes to supplant those are being rolled out.

One big worry is foreign parked funds of big wigs will be tapped to fund conversion.
Eg Andhra politicians have money parked abroad.
This could be at risk unless they divert some loot to the conversion NGOs.



the CNI, CSI and a lot of Cthis and Cthat type of organizations use educational institutions to garner money and generate local resources that run into thousands of crores per month.

there is already a local and alternate funding mechanism in place.

off shore and FCRA funds are the huge cream and icing on top that is gernered to fund and pay for conversions

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby darshan » 20 Jun 2019 03:30

Criminal cases should be registered against all these journalists.

https://youtu.be/PI-zJtlxVNY


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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Sachin » 20 Jun 2019 12:23

ramana wrote:Its very clear you support the Leftist/Commies in Kerala. Please stop this BJP bashing under secular rubric.

Sir, if the people in state do not trust state level BJP leadership who can be blamed for that? The BJP (at state level, and Modi during election rallies) have clearly been saying that they will get the Sabari Mala issue fixed for good. But to be frank the first move actually did not come from them; but from a lone MP of a very tiny party in KL. I don't have any love lost for the commies; but we have to give the devil its due. The commies are consistant on their Hindu-hatred, BJP state level leadership is wishy-washy. After the drubbing in Lok Sabha elections the commies may lie low; but their overall game plan is known to every one.

It is BJP workers who were murdered in Kerala much o the glee of the Kerala seculars.

I agree with that. The BJP is losing its cadre :(. But how is that related to their election promises? The state level BJP leadership's commitments were made after knowing that CPI(M) is targetting their cadre. They now cannot say that - "Yes we promised to get issues fixed at Sabari Mala, but you see our party workers are getting killed by CPI(M), so we cannot do any thing now.". The Hindus would then have to choose the next evil in the possible options; which I see is more or less is the INC.

Money is the oxygen of these conversion mafia.
already 46K NGOs have been shut down under misuse of FCRA.

Got a forward on WhatsApp; at least in the hill districts of Kerala the Pentacoastal Mission pastors have stopped their conversion schemes for now. Poor folks are not getting even their salaries, which diminishes their urge to do the soul harvesting.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby syam » 20 Jun 2019 12:33

Nonsense deleted by admin
Last edited by suryag on 20 Jun 2019 15:29, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Warning issued by admin

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby kvjayan » 20 Jun 2019 13:43

Chindu which never fails to attack Modi/BJP day in and out, can be so careless to make stupid mistakes:

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 943258.ece

"The article has been corrected for wrongly mentioning Rakesh Sharma was the first Indian to land in moon."

And this rag takes enormous pride calling itself as a premier reference material for UPSC exams!

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Sachin » 20 Jun 2019 14:12

syam wrote:State bjp is always failure there. But somehow commies and congress are good options. Yeah. We get it.

If the election results are the bench mark, BJP's KL unit is not really going great guns. We can crib and complain; but ultimately the voters needs to get a liking towards them. KL voters cannot be asked to vote on what some one else thinks, am I right?

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby syam » 20 Jun 2019 14:51

Sachin wrote:If the election results are the bench mark, BJP's KL unit is not really going great guns. We can crib and complain; but ultimately the voters needs to get a liking towards them. KL voters cannot be asked to vote on what some one else thinks, am I right?

KL voters who happens to be majority muslim and xian voters don't really vote for bjp in any state. Add another 20% beaf eaters. BJP will never win any election in this env. You can pretend to be asleep, sir. I have no intention to wake you up.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby hanumadu » 20 Jun 2019 15:07

Sachin wrote:
ramana wrote:Its very clear you support the Leftist/Commies in Kerala. Please stop this BJP bashing under secular rubric.

Sir, if the people in state do not trust state level BJP leadership who can be blamed for that? The BJP (at state level, and Modi during election rallies) have clearly been saying that they will get the Sabari Mala issue fixed for good. But to be frank the first move actually did not come from them; but from a lone MP of a very tiny party in KL. I don't have any love lost for the commies; but we have to give the devil its due. The commies are consistant on their Hindu-hatred, BJP state level leadership is wishy-washy. After the drubbing in Lok Sabha elections the commies may lie low; but their overall game plan is known to every one.

The new parliament barely met. At least give them some time to bring a law. Yes, BJP promised a law and they should bring a law to protect Sabari Mala.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby chetak » 20 Jun 2019 15:31

False cases and charges: How Congress practised vendetta politics



False cases and charges: How Congress practised vendetta politics

Rajinder Kumar
June 15, 2019.

Congress, in pursuit of its vendetta against Modi, subverted and corrupted every institution about which it and the so called liberals are shedding crocodile tears.


Congress and other opposition parties are nowadays busy accusing NDA government of pursuing vendetta politics and persecution of their political opponents through the use of CBI, ED, IT, DRI and other investigating agencies.

Corruption being a major issue in all elections, incumbent governments are obliged to pursue every allegation of corruption, including against their predecessors, who would always try to project themselves as victims of “vendetta” to gain public sympathy. When politicians are in power, investigating agencies in India dare not probe their act of malfeasance. Even if some conscientious officer tried to initiate action, his efforts were nipped in the bud by his colleagues and superiors. It is only when the corrupt politicians lose power that there are some chances of initiating investigations into their misdeeds, though in India politicians rarely end up in jail for corruption. Investigation into cases of corruption cannot as such be described as vindictive actions, as these are always based on tangible evidence in the form of documents, unexplained assets and money trails.

The common man, by and large, perceives that for politicians, politics has become a profession to amass easy money by illegal means. A check on the holdings of politicians in land, residences, petrol pumps, showrooms, industries and businesses before they joined politics and after a few years of their election to a public office would make their indulgence in corruption very obvious. Recruitments, posting-transfers of public servants, grant of clearances for establishing industries, government procurement especially of defence equipment, infrastructure, housing and commercial real estate projects and tariff policies are the major areas for extorting bribes by politicians.

The Augusta Westland helicopter case, the Vadra land deals and the National Herald case are very minor scams being pursued by the current NDA government. Compared to these, the procurement of Sukhoi fighter aircraft, the MI-29K naval aircraft, Gorshkov aircraft carrier, the Scorpene submarines and some other defence equipment involved payments of huge bribes to politicians by foreign sellers. Commissions in defence deals go up to 30% of their value, out of which 10% go into the coffers of the rulers of the seller country and 20% is meant for the buyer country; out of this, around half is pocketed by major industrialists whose names never appear in the media and 10% goes as bribes to civil and military bureaucrats and politicians. Information about these and several other scams is scattered all around government files. It is another matter that the managers of this government do not have the time or the capabilities to dig out these details.

Even vendetta can be good if it comes from the motivation to make corrupt politicians face the law. There are very few cases in which political vendetta, than actual corruption, appears to be the main motive for launching legal proceedings. The case of Rajender Kumar, a Delhi cadre IAS officer and the case of a former CBI director involved in an ego battle with his deputy enjoying political patronage are examples where political vendetta appeared to be the only motive for launching cases of corruption.

On the other hand, attempts by the ruling party to initiate criminal proceedings against its rivals on apparently false charges or murder, or on any offence but corruption, when solely motivated by the malicious intent of neutralising them from posing challenges to its power can be branded as “vendetta”.

Vendetta politics is the gift of Congress to India. Way back in 1975, every opposition leader and worker were put in jail for opposing Indira Gandhi’s dictatorial and illegal regime. Poor George Fernandes was even implicated in a case of Sedition and Explosive Act called the “Baroda dynamite case”. Just because Indira Gandhi had a personal dislike for Rajmata Gayatri Devi and Vijayraje Scindia, they were jailed under MISA, though they never participated in the “JP movement”, which was used by Indira Gandhi as a pretext to impose Emergency.

The politics of vendetta and character assassination was continued by Indira Gandhi’s son Rajiv. The public might have a faint memory of the infamous “Ram Swarup Sabharwal spy case”, which otherwise was the most insidious attempt to tarnish the image of all the important non-Left opposition leaders including A.B. Vajpayee, Lal Krishna Advani and a dozen other non-BJP leaders, by branding them as agents of the CIA, Mossad and other Western intelligence agencies. The case stemmed from a fictional conspiracy theory floated by a senior Delhi Police officer, who was working on the Indira Gandhi assassination case. Interestingly, while only Ramswarup Sabharwal was shown as an accused in the case, the charge-sheet cast aspersions of treachery on the opposition leaders without any evidence. This chargesheet naming these leaders was approved by a committee comprising Rajiv Gandhi (then Prime Minister), Arun Nehru, Arun Singh, V.P. Singh and P. Chidambaram. Similarly, Ram Nath Goenka, the owner of Indian Express was also the target for implication in an espionage case at the hands of the Rajiv Government for advising Giani Zail Singh, the then President of India. The humiliation of Zail Singh by Rajiv government, just because he was a Sikh was another example of vendetta politics. After the Bofors expose, V.P. Singh and Arun Nehru themselves became the targets of Rajiv Gandhi’s vendetta. A purported telex from the US embassy, forged with the assistance of a non-Congress politician, and falsely indicating the existence of a numbered account in the name of Ajeya Singh, the son of V.P. Singh, in the tax haven of St Kitts was got published in newspapers to tarnish the image of V.P. Singh. Subsequently, more evidence was fabricated to strengthen the false allegations against Singh.

The Congress’ mastery in targeting opponents with false cases was carried forward by the UPA from 2004 to 2014. Narendra Modi became the Congress’ prime target as the party perceived him as their future challenger. In 2008, attempts to implicate Narendra Modi in a case of an alleged fake encounter on charges of conspiracy to murder were made in the so-called Ishrat Jahan encounter case. However, after the Ministry of Home Affairs (MHA) filled an affidavit that the four killed in the encounter, including two Pakistanis, were Lashkar-e-Tayyaba terrorists, the effort was shelved for the time being. Later another attempt was made to involve Modi and Amit Shah in the Sohrabbuddin encounter case. Incidentally, Sohrabbuddin, who was a dreaded criminal operating in Madhya Pradesh, Rajasthan and Gujarat, had live linkages with Pakistan-based underworld gangster, Dawood Ibrahim, and was thus under the close surveillance of the intelligence agencies and the police in these states. The allegation of Shah’s links to Sohrabbuddin for extortion was a total concoction by the CBI, as nothing of this nature was ever noticed by these agencies during their surveillance. Having failed in these efforts, Congress again tried to involve Modi and Shah in the Ishrat Jahan case, even at the cost of tarnishing the genuine counter-terrorist actions by the intelligence and police agencies.

The hypocrisy of the so called “liberals and protectors of institutions” stands exposed when they become the cheerleaders of the Congress whenever the owners of the party attempted to murder democracy by falsely implicating their opponents in heinous offence with the sole intention of preventing them from posing a threat to the Congress’ attempts to retain power. Congress, in pursuit of its vendetta against Modi, subverted and corrupted every—repeat, every—institution about which it and the so called liberals are now shedding crocodile tears.

Rajinder Kumar is a formmer special director of the Intelligence Bureau

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Hari Seldon » 20 Jun 2019 15:33

Suraj wrote:That’s why I stated the challenge - how many of you writing angry complaining posts can demonstrate the ability to channelize your concerns into positive energy and become a forum domain expert of the legal and legislative background of the matter ?


OK. I'll bite.

For starters, our Hon hizzoners have flat out declared that 'Hindusism' is NOT a religion but instead, 'a way of life'.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... gJELL.html

Why should that matter? Coz 'traditional' constitutional protections available to 'religions' are unavailable to H. Right to propagate will come later, sala Right to practice has been woefully infringed upon by the same secular state. And sans the Right to practice worship, what of our places of worship, hain jee? Freely open to plunder by sarkars of all hues and their increasingly Hinduphobic (and crypto-xtian, in the south) temple boards and trusts.

Sans the Right to propagate, we in law have no legal basis to run our own schools free of heavy handed state interference, arbitrariness, whims and venality. Ask Hindu-run schools in MH when they last received RTE dues. I say Hindu-run and not 'Hindu' because such is not defined in law and hence cannot exist yet within the system. The bharatiya shiksha board is one step in the right direction but has no clarity on what it is or will be. ANyway in the absence of legal cover for H as a religion, how far will it go?

What's the ask here? Well, can our mighty Battalion 303, led by our Hon Gujarat ka sher (the 'lion' in our batta'lion') bring in (or at least tacitly support from a safe distance, since associating with any overtly H agenda item seems detrimental to a statesmanly demeanor) a bill that explicitly redefines Hinduism as a religious faith? Sure, a religion like no other where you could worship one god, no god or a million gods, but still, legally a religion and therefore entitled to all rights and privileges that are endowed forthwith? Zimble ask only.

Oh, maybe it is already stretchily defined by some Hon hizzzoner somewhere in some verbose judgment which is part of a maze of judgments all of which are later overturn-able by supremely honorable SC, hence, why not, still, bring in a law that explicitly states Hinduism is a religious faith, native to India? I know big ask and all, and totally distasteful to rake up such ugly questions bang at the beginning of Modi 2.0's honeymoon period. Or maybe the right time to ask this is after the MH polls or the DL or BH or WB polls etc etc. #TheekHai, will wait and see like we waited 5 yrs.

BTW, pls don't insinuate that people who ask the above Qs - "white flag moaners and whiners" to quote some worthes here, as compared to those worthies of course are (gasp!) "anti-vikas"! That we 'core' voters are all Qtiyas and dumbasses because we raise the above Qs and want legal and governmental obstacles removed (and maybe even some hope of help/facilitation by 'our' sarkar for a socio-cultural H revival agenda) because we don't care or have never cared about the suffering of the poor and the homeless because (as per [some other] forums - we are relatively affluent urban, UCs).

OK, once the above happens, then we can talk about the next steps to bring about a level playing field where H folks can compete in the marketplace for ideas and practices and rituals and gods and spirituality on an even footing as the other, propah 'religions' do. Only.

Only.

pankajs
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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby pankajs » 20 Jun 2019 16:17

ramana wrote:Godot has arrived.
And is called Amit Shah.

I think we are pinning too much hope on one person.

I too expect some movement on the "core issue" starting now but the process of reclaiming back all Yindu space in India on all dimensions will take time.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Singha » 20 Jun 2019 16:23

two developments today

BIF superstar on teetar - ex IPS sanjiv bhatt sentenced to life in prison for a 30 year old custodial death case during a communal riot by a jamnagar court.

self proclaimed queen of desi hip hop the UK based hard kaur booked for very abusive tweets on RSS chief and Yogi on teetar. her full caps abusive days AND making money off indian public are over. her visa ought to be cancelled and her record company operations in india shut down asap.

pankajs
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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby pankajs » 20 Jun 2019 16:26

^^
Yup. Saw the first news a while back and promptly forgot to post.

First term was stock taking, stabilization and laying the foundation time.

This term will we should start seeing the results.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby vijayk » 20 Jun 2019 16:54

https://www.firstpost.com/india/new-edu ... 50111.html
New Education Policy ignores universality of learning that RTE ensures, focuses on autonomy of private schools

It started ...

Ankur Sarin and Ambrish Dongre are faculty members at the Indian Institute of Management Ahmedabad and Kanika Verma is strategy lead, Indus Action


First of all problem with RTE is it applied to only Hindu owned institutes and most rates are not revised regularly and payments have not been paid at all and/or very late. Many schools have been shut down and run into losses. Legal action takes for ever and there is no immediate relief.

Here the IIM folks write:

The impact of the 1954 Brown vs. Board ruling in the United States that made segregation in US schools, on the basis of race, illegal is still being realised. It was certainly not realised in six years, the time since the Supreme Court ruled strongly in favour of the “25 percent mandate” under Section 12(1)(c) of the Right to Education (RTE)


constitutional equality is somehow equated with abolishing private rights of entities especially for Hindu-based entities.

The suggestions it makes are a climb down from a rights-based approach that fundamentally defined the RTE and a turn back to a charity based framework in which the disadvantaged are left waiting till decision makers realise the value of including them as part of institutions that shape society.


“In a basic sense, 12(1)(c) is extremely well intentioned, aiming to bolster the inclusion of students from socio-economically disadvantaged backgrounds in private schools. However, the clause is not quite in tune with the principle of autonomy of institutions (including for student admission) in this Policy, which empowers schools and trusts them to do the right thing.”

Any policy choice requires making trade-offs between competing or conflicting principles. The implicit primacy of the “principle of autonomy of institutions” over other “foundational pillars of access, equity, quality, affordability and accountability” that the policy otherwise claims to build on is deeply problematic.


There are other laws and mandates in India having similar impositions on private bodies in the interest of public welfare.

Section 135 of Indian Companies Act prescribes a mandatory CSR spend of 2 percent of average net profits for large companies.


They go on and on how to set up more Govt. to monitor, administer ... unbelievable that we produce this kind of faculty members in IIMs.

vijayk
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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby vijayk » 20 Jun 2019 16:55

Singha wrote:two developments today

BIF superstar on teetar - ex IPS sanjiv bhatt sentenced to life in prison for a 30 year old custodial death case during a communal riot by a jamnagar court.

self proclaimed queen of desi hip hop the UK based hard kaur booked for very abusive tweets on RSS chief and Yogi on teetar. her full caps abusive days AND making money off indian public are over. her visa ought to be cancelled and her record company operations in india shut down asap.


also Indira Jaisingh and Anand Grover have been charged with FCRA violations. This Grover was in charge of 2G prosecution and screwed it up

chetak
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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby chetak » 20 Jun 2019 17:14

vijayk wrote:
Singha wrote:two developments today

BIF superstar on teetar - ex IPS sanjiv bhatt sentenced to life in prison for a 30 year old custodial death case during a communal riot by a jamnagar court.

self proclaimed queen of desi hip hop the UK based hard kaur booked for very abusive tweets on RSS chief and Yogi on teetar. her full caps abusive days AND making money off indian public are over. her visa ought to be cancelled and her record company operations in india shut down asap.


also Indira Jaisingh and Anand Grover have been charged with FCRA violations. This Grover was in charge of 2G prosecution and screwed it up


nobody who practices in the supreme court "screws" it up.

unless.......... :wink:

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby A_Gupta » 20 Jun 2019 17:18

Hari Seldon wrote:
Suraj wrote:That’s why I stated the challenge - how many of you writing angry complaining posts can demonstrate the ability to channelize your concerns into positive energy and become a forum domain expert of the legal and legislative background of the matter ?


OK. I'll bite.


This will help.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QAjiv9 ... sp=sharing
"Freedom of Religion and the Supreme Court of India"
Anil Rao, Master's Thesis in Law, University of Ghent.
(This is Balu's school).

For those who are interested in crowd-funding research:
http://www.hipkapi.com/2018/11/22/suppo ... h-program/

chetak
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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby chetak » 20 Jun 2019 17:25

vijayk wrote:https://www.firstpost.com/india/new-education-policy-misguided-review-ignores-universality-of-learning-that-rte-ensures-focuses-on-autonomy-of-private-schools-6850111.html
New Education Policy ignores universality of learning that RTE ensures, focuses on autonomy of private schools

It started ...

Ankur Sarin and Ambrish Dongre are faculty members at the Indian Institute of Management Ahmedabad and Kanika Verma is strategy lead, Indus Action


First of all problem with RTE is it applied to only Hindu owned institutes and most rates are not revised regularly and payments have not been paid at all and/or very late. Many schools have been shut down and run into losses. Legal action takes for ever and there is no immediate relief.

Here the IIM folks write:

The impact of the 1954 Brown vs. Board ruling in the United States that made segregation in US schools, on the basis of race, illegal is still being realised. It was certainly not realised in six years, the time since the Supreme Court ruled strongly in favour of the “25 percent mandate” under Section 12(1)(c) of the Right to Education (RTE)


constitutional equality is somehow equated with abolishing private rights of entities especially for Hindu-based entities.

The suggestions it makes are a climb down from a rights-based approach that fundamentally defined the RTE and a turn back to a charity based framework in which the disadvantaged are left waiting till decision makers realise the value of including them as part of institutions that shape society.


“In a basic sense, 12(1)(c) is extremely well intentioned, aiming to bolster the inclusion of students from socio-economically disadvantaged backgrounds in private schools. However, the clause is not quite in tune with the principle of autonomy of institutions (including for student admission) in this Policy, which empowers schools and trusts them to do the right thing.”

Any policy choice requires making trade-offs between competing or conflicting principles. The implicit primacy of the “principle of autonomy of institutions” over other “foundational pillars of access, equity, quality, affordability and accountability” that the policy otherwise claims to build on is deeply problematic.


There are other laws and mandates in India having similar impositions on private bodies in the interest of public welfare.

Section 135 of Indian Companies Act prescribes a mandatory CSR spend of 2 percent of average net profits for large companies.


They go on and on how to set up more Govt. to monitor, administer ... unbelievable that we produce this kind of faculty members in IIMs.


this is more about apex predators and the prey base.

the rest is mere window dressing


look at the words being used "rights-based approach" and "a turn back to a charity based framework"

were the folks being asked to bear the brunt of such "charity" ever asked for their opinion or even willingness to shoulder the burden or did the commie naxal NAC just dump it on them as a wilfully assumed matter of minority rights and majority obligations.

chetak
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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby chetak » 20 Jun 2019 17:29

A_Gupta wrote:
Hari Seldon wrote:
OK. I'll bite.


This will help.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QAjiv9 ... sp=sharing
"Freedom of Religion and the Supreme Court of India"
Anil Rao, Master's Thesis in Law, University of Ghent.
(This is Balu's school).

For those who are interested in crowd-funding research:
http://www.hipkapi.com/2018/11/22/suppo ... h-program/


don't reinvent the wheel and waste your time.

youtube has numerous videos about the charter of Hindu demands and the constitutional amendments required to specific articles to bring about this parity.

all videos are backed by sound legal and constitutional background as applied to what is being asked for.

the qualifications of the people speaking are beyond question and reproach.

A_Gupta
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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby A_Gupta » 20 Jun 2019 17:46

chetak wrote:
don't reinvent the wheel and waste your time.

youtube has numerous videos about the charter of Hindu demands and the constitutional amendments required to specific articles to bring about this parity.

all videos are backed by sound legal and constitutional background as applied to what is being asked for.

the qualifications of the people speaking are beyond question and reproach.


Before declaring that "all knowledge is on youtube", like another Quran, at least read the thesis.

PS:
1. I'd remind you that Suraj's challenge is to develop a resident-on-BRF subject matter expert.
2. If the request to crowd-fund research offends you, don't fund it. There is a link to what the researchers want to look at and a look at the quality of their work. Nobody will/should join an effort without understanding those two things.

pankajs
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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby pankajs » 20 Jun 2019 18:24

vijayk wrote:https://www.firstpost.com/india/new-education-policy-misguided-review-ignores-universality-of-learning-that-rte-ensures-focuses-on-autonomy-of-private-schools-6850111.html
New Education Policy ignores universality of learning that RTE ensures, focuses on autonomy of private schools

<snip>

They go on and on how to set up more Govt. to monitor, administer ... unbelievable that we produce this kind of faculty members in IIMs.

chetak wrote:this is more about apex predators and the prey base.

the rest is mere window dressing


look at the words being used "rights-based approach" and "a turn back to a charity based framework"

were the folks being asked to bear the brunt of such "charity" ever asked for their opinion or even willingness to shoulder the burden or did the commie naxal NAC just dump it on them as a wilfully assumed matter of minority rights and majority obligations.

Actually in the 2nd but last para, the note ends with
Further, there are immediate steps that can be taken to increase its effectiveness. Exemptions to minority schools have no place in a mandate that is supposed to help the disadvantaged, promote an integrated school system as well as society. We hope the government would challenge the court ruling that provided such an exemption. Further, the Central government should unambiguously make the mandate applicable from pre-primary by assuring reimbursements for the same.

To us Yindus, the fundamental principle is one of equality and a level playing field. Either RTE must go or it must be applicable to all schools. That is the crux of the matter.

Their thrust is not illogical given that any push to do away with RTE will be labeled as "anti-poor/obc/dalit/tribals". The GOI should not offer the opposition a lifeline at this stage of the game nor allow them a powerful issue to revive and join forces.

We must not be too quick to sit on judgement.

Krita
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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Krita » 20 Jun 2019 18:29

hanumadu wrote:
Sachin wrote:Sir, if the people in state do not trust state level BJP leadership who can be blamed for that? The BJP (at state level, and Modi during election rallies) have clearly been saying that they will get the Sabari Mala issue fixed for good. But to be frank the first move actually did not come from them; but from a lone MP of a very tiny party in KL. I don't have any love lost for the commies; but we have to give the devil its due. The commies are consistant on their Hindu-hatred, BJP state level leadership is wishy-washy. After the drubbing in Lok Sabha elections the commies may lie low; but their overall game plan is known to every one.

The new parliament barely met. At least give them some time to bring a law. Yes, BJP promised a law and they should bring a law to protect Sabari Mala.



Hindus of Kerala especially the middle class have no will to fight. They hide their pusillanimity under the garb of secularism and superiority over the narthies and Tamilians. Whenever they are confronted with facts, the standard reply is Kerala's education ,HDI , health infra etc.The BJP and RSS are surviving due to the Ezhavas and other OBCs. Even in Palakkad( my ancestral home) the festivals are surviving due to the Ezhavas.
The lesser evil congress gave the madarassas govt school status , pensions for Mullahs and temple lands to churches. Lesser evil is in coalition with IUML and the commies are in bed with NDF. Only difference is that congress is subtle in its manipulations while commies are openly anti-Hindu.
When a professor of NSS engg college , Palakkad was accused of brainwashing and attempted to convert two girls. The NSS management responded by arresting the students who went on strike against the professor. Again, the management response was timid and anti Hindu during the halal controversy in college hostel.
Though NSS dislikes commies, its chief ,Sukumaran Nair is a Congress stooge.
The BJP leadership is poor in Kerala . Sreedharan Pillai is is a joker who isn't trusted by anyone. Even, RSS in Kerala pisses me off with the lame secularism talks in the shakha meetings. It seems that Hindus in Kerala have already given up fearing social and economic consequences.(Many Hindus have deleted their strong anti-govt posts in Facebook made during the Sabarimala issue).

pankajs
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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby pankajs » 20 Jun 2019 18:38

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 875471.cms
Setback for Chandrababu Naidu: 4 TDP Rajya Sabha MPs split, propose merger with BJP
The four MPs who signed the resolution for merger include YS Chowdary, TG Venkatesh, CM Ramesh and GM Rao. The MPs submitted a letter to Rajya Sabha chairman M Venkaiah Naidu for merging the TDP Legislature Party with the BJP.

<snip>

Later, addressing a press conference BJP's working president JP Nadda welcomed the TDP MPs into the party.
He said the BJP had accepted their proposal of merger.

This can't be about TDP or Naidu babu .. he has already been humiliated in the elections.
This can't be about numbers too ... BJP is very comfortably place than you very much.

So what is this about? :twisted:

hanumadu
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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby hanumadu » 20 Jun 2019 18:47

pankajs wrote:https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/setback-for-chandrababu-naidu-3-tdp-mps-resign-set-to-join-bjp/articleshow/69875471.cms
Setback for Chandrababu Naidu: 4 TDP Rajya Sabha MPs split, propose merger with BJP
The four MPs who signed the resolution for merger include YS Chowdary, TG Venkatesh, CM Ramesh and GM Rao. The MPs submitted a letter to Rajya Sabha chairman M Venkaiah Naidu for merging the TDP Legislature Party with the BJP.

<snip>

Later, addressing a press conference BJP's working president JP Nadda welcomed the TDP MPs into the party.
He said the BJP had accepted their proposal of merger.

This can't be about TDP or Naidu babu .. he has already been humiliated in the elections.
This can't be about numbers too ... BJP is very comfortably place than you very much.

So what is this about? :twisted:


Will they lose the RS seats if they quit TDP because they were elected by TDP MLAs. If they lose their RS seats, they will now go to YSRCP. This is a big step for them. They don't think TDP will be back again or it is even a viable party and they believe BJP has a fair chance in future.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby schinnas » 20 Jun 2019 19:22

BJP does not have numbers in Rajya Sabha. So this is a very welcome move. Hope these MPs have some tenure left.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby schinnas » 20 Jun 2019 19:23

BJP does not have numbers in Rajya Sabha. So this is a very welcome move. Hope these MPs have some tenure left.

chetak
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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby chetak » 20 Jun 2019 19:43

pankajs wrote:
vijayk wrote:https://www.firstpost.com/india/new-education-policy-misguided-review-ignores-universality-of-learning-that-rte-ensures-focuses-on-autonomy-of-private-schools-6850111.html
New Education Policy ignores universality of learning that RTE ensures, focuses on autonomy of private schools

<snip>

They go on and on how to set up more Govt. to monitor, administer ... unbelievable that we produce this kind of faculty members in IIMs.

chetak wrote:this is more about apex predators and the prey base.

the rest is mere window dressing


look at the words being used "rights-based approach" and "a turn back to a charity based framework"

were the folks being asked to bear the brunt of such "charity" ever asked for their opinion or even willingness to shoulder the burden or did the commie naxal NAC just dump it on them as a wilfully assumed matter of minority rights and majority obligations.

Actually in the 2nd but last para, the note ends with
Further, there are immediate steps that can be taken to increase its effectiveness. Exemptions to minority schools have no place in a mandate that is supposed to help the disadvantaged, promote an integrated school system as well as society. We hope the government would challenge the court ruling that provided such an exemption. Further, the Central government should unambiguously make the mandate applicable from pre-primary by assuring reimbursements for the same.

To us Yindus, the fundamental principle is one of equality and a level playing field. Either RTE must go or it must be applicable to all schools. That is the crux of the matter.

Their thrust is not illogical given that any push to do away with RTE will be labeled as "anti-poor/obc/dalit/tribals". The GOI should not offer the opposition a lifeline at this stage of the game nor allow them a powerful issue to revive and join forces.

We must not be too quick to sit on judgement.


let the Hindus be allowed the same rights and priveliges to establish their own schools and let such schools be run effieciently by them.

that would make RTE applicable to everyone and the load must be shared equally with govt reimbursement for all.

we are back to the same strawman argument of "To us Yindus, the fundamental principle is one of equality". why.

simply do unto others as they do unto you. That is true equality and also true secularism.

anything else is merely dhimmitude, in one form or the other.

why walk around with the albatross around your neck when the others have necks too.


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