2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
ragupta
BRFite
Posts: 355
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby ragupta » 21 Dec 2019 02:05

Govt must not back down, they should take care of the protestors. few lakh protestors holding country to ransom, with the active support of opposition, criminals, anti social and anti national elements. where is the purse string for all this.

banrjeer
BRFite
Posts: 325
Joined: 21 Dec 2008 14:39

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby banrjeer » 21 Dec 2019 02:15

NRC can be voluntary and then you levy penalties thru fees, increase lending Rates and that increase gradually every year for non compliance. At year number x shut these people out of the system completely, no loans, driving license .. nothing

Even immigrants get a social security number in the US. Every nation has this, they don't start throwing petrol bombs just because they got a social security number.

mmasand
BRFite
Posts: 677
Joined: 19 May 2009 23:46

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby mmasand » 21 Dec 2019 02:33

banrjeer wrote:NRC can be voluntary and then you levy penalties thru fees, increase lending Rates and that increase gradually every year for non compliance. At year number x shut these people out of the system completely, no loans, driving license .. nothing

Even immigrants get a social security number in the US. Every nation has this, they don't start throwing petrol bombs just because they got a social security number.


Will not stand legal scrutiny, it will be struck down by the lowest court in the country in a matter of five minutes. However, you can make it mandatory for govt jobs to have a background clearance, in effect the same procedure as passport verification.

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14147
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby pankajs » 21 Dec 2019 02:44

Citizens register cannot be voluntary or optional. It is either mandatory or is not a citizens register but another version of Aadhar. Why does India need another version of Aadhar?

https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... s-6176706/
‘Suggested an opinion poll’: Mamata Banerjee makes U-turn on referendum remark

https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... c-6177571/
Delhi Confidential: Silent on NRC
The silence of Maharashtra Chief Minister Uddhav Thackeray on the proposed nationwide NRC is discomfiting to the Congress. The common minimum programme of the Shiv Sena, NCP and the Congress specifies that the three parties will take a “joint view” after holding consultations and arriving at a consensus on contentious issues of national importance. But there has been no consultations so far on the NRC among the parties. The Sena’s support to the Citizenship (Amendment) Bill in Lok Sabha had enraged the Congress. The Sena then nuanced its stance in Rajya Sabha and stayed away from voting.
On Friday, when the Congress president, in a video message, slammed the government for using “brute force” against the protesters, Sitharaman was fielded to convey that the government will not start the NRC exercise without consulting the stakeholders.
Ok .. inline with what I had written a while back "Make conciliatory noise about having a wider consultation".

NRC is anyways at least a year away from being started. In the interim GOI can consult all the stakeholders.

However, such a minor concession is hardly likely to pacify the protesters because
a. The protesters are mere pawns in someone else's game.
b. Their backers are not protesting the CAA or the NRC. They are protesting their loss of power or veto in India. Power for the political formations that are backing them and the veto for their community leaders.
c. They will want to roll back ALL steps taken in the last 5+ years.
d. They want to "break" Modi/Shah or at least their power/base.
e. They have just smelled blood. For their backers, this is just the beginning.

Only people who will go home with some sweet talk on NRC is the sickular sheeps but not the peaceful sheeps. Brace for more immediate trouble.

Sumeet
BRFite
Posts: 1518
Joined: 22 May 2002 11:31

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Sumeet » 21 Dec 2019 03:32

In my opinion Govt should not mention NRC or anything about it till a full implementation plan is ready. It's hard to talk about anything that is not concrete. Focus should be on CAA and constant videos of Sikhs, Hindus, Christians etc who suffer in these 3 countries hence justifying the need for it. Govt must do the needful to get it into dharmic people's mind that India is natural refuge for dharmics all around the world.

With nothing concrete about nationwide NRC right now its pretty easy to mislead naive people (and they are plenty of them in all communities in India) and at the same time gives a tool to nefarious guys to move in and make moves to destabilize country.

Economy should be on recovery track & post article 370 J&K settled/absorbed before NRC is attempted is another point I would like to make.

There is absolutely nothing wrong in CAA, it's much needed, too much belated and should not at all be backtracked on. Dropping references to NRC govt should go full throttle in communication through every mean for

banrjeer
BRFite
Posts: 325
Joined: 21 Dec 2008 14:39

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby banrjeer » 21 Dec 2019 04:07

pankajs wrote:Citizens register cannot be voluntary or optional. It is either mandatory or is not a citizens register but another version of Aadhar. Why does India need another version of Aadhar?


It does not. Can't Adhar be used for NRC ? Nationality can be a non mandatory field.

Agasthi
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 46
Joined: 18 Jan 2017 08:29

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Agasthi » 21 Dec 2019 04:55

Looks like this is the last card that has been dealt with. The student card and other cards has been playing for so many years with no results other than in the editorial of ‘The Hindu’ the Hiranykashipu of Mount Road :mrgreen: . The speed with which this government has moved in just ‘6 months’ has unhinged this mafia who fear what may happen in the next 1 year not to mention the full term of this government.

The loss of Maharashtra to the BJP despite a people mandate has given them the idea that they can snatch power without a people’s mandate. And they played their last wild card in desperation or by calculation knowing the unpredictability of this one. trying their best to not try doing a ‘Godhra’ again. But, looking at the hotheads, looks like they may not stick to the script and may carry that out in Kerala or coastal Karnataka. Moplahs seem to be itching for a fight more than even the BD’s.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby UlanBatori » 21 Dec 2019 05:36

mmasand wrote:
banrjeer wrote:NRC can be voluntary and then you levy penalties thru fees, increase lending Rates and that increase gradually every year for non compliance. At year number x shut these people out of the system completely, no loans, driving license .. nothing

Even immigrants get a social security number in the US. Every nation has this, they don't start throwing petrol bombs just because they got a social security number.


Will not stand legal scrutiny, it will be struck down by the lowest court in the country in a matter of five minutes. However, you can make it mandatory for govt jobs to have a background clearance, in effect the same procedure as passport verification.


ppl in India keep thinking that there are only 2 entities: Guvrmand and Supreme Court.
But in reality, Indian babooncracy at every level (public AND private) are super-expert at demanding "Fill out this Pharm!"
If ppl with NRC get ahead of people w/o NRC in line for ANYTHING (think movie ticket, train ticket, bank account, marriage ad, cooking gas cylinder booking...) that's it
Seeing the way baboons jerk taxpayers around, I am amazed that ppl don't realize this. There is ***NO*** recourse that I know when baboon says: "That was notified in January 2019 onlee!" (Latest is trying to get IT refund.. stuck because Supreme HQ's name was not first on the baink acct number, so the refund has not been sent. "PAN no linked" although it is of course linked: the jeeniuses' software can't accommodate a joint account! Gave new acct with her naam first, waiting.......)

If u ain't on the citjen register, u won't get a passport. Or ur passport won't be renewed. No Gelf jaab. No weekend shopping jaunt to Singapore. Now let's get REALLY serious: No sex trip to Thailand.

It's that simple.

Nikhil T
BRFite
Posts: 1286
Joined: 09 Nov 2008 06:48
Location: RAW HQ, Lodhi Road

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Nikhil T » 21 Dec 2019 05:53

Katare wrote:We must separate chaff from wheat or risk loosing perspective which would be followed by paranoia and group eco-chamber thinking.

..

I request that the forum must rise above petty stuffs Floating around the net and really dig deep to identify the really rotten meat that we can use now and later once this Protest is over.

+1. We cannot be patriotic while having visceral hatred towards a significant chunk of the population (the vice versa is applicable too). Anyone can protest any law or policy, they don't deserve being called anti-national just because they protest. I wonder if we would call Lt Gen Syed Ata Hasnain anti-national or anti-Hindu if he comes out against this law. Note that this is not to absolve the violent protesters of any crime - they must be punished as must their political mai-baaps.

chetak wrote:this guy could be writing on the forum, his views are so very similar 8)
The Enemy Within the Gates – the Indian Republic Faces an Existential Threat

What's funny is that this writer assumes that the protests are because of CAA and doesn't even mention NRC even once in his article.

...Yes, Muslims are not covered by this provision, simply because Muslims in these three countries are not subjected to religious persecution. One doesn’t have to be a quantum physicist to understand this point...

I hope this statement is meant as a joke, because there literally was a Pakistani theoretical physicist who was persecuted and shunned from Islam because he was Ahmadi (or Qadiani as Pakis call them). The TSP Govt even scratched off "Muslim" from his tombstone that originally said "First Muslim Nobel Laureate". There's no reason for leaving out Ahmadis in CAA and like I pointed earlier, there aren't many of them in India anyway and their inclusion would've reduced all this criticism of leaving out Muslims at a very low cost.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19579
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Karan M » 21 Dec 2019 06:40

Katare wrote:
pankajs wrote:You mean "Musalmano se Azadi" is an acceptable slogan from Hindus?!!


Ofcourse, azadi from anything is fine!


Really? That's literally how the 2 nation theory was pushed for, and led to the Direct Action Day, and the deaths, murders, rapes of countless non Muslims and later Muslims as well. Should we ignore that? Also, if Hindus start saying "Musalmano se Azadi" will that even be acceptable (leaving aside the ethical, moral aspects out of the picture).
Can anyone here for instance, walk around in *any* secular society with a large placard stating " i want freedom from muslims" and not suffer significant consequences or blow-back? If so, the other case should be held as equally offensive.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19579
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Karan M » 21 Dec 2019 06:49

Nikhil T wrote:
Katare wrote:We must separate chaff from wheat or risk loosing perspective which would be followed by paranoia and group eco-chamber thinking.

..
I request that the forum must rise above petty stuffs Floating around the net and really dig deep to identify the really rotten meat that we can use now and later once this Protest is over.

+1. We cannot be patriotic while having visceral hatred towards a significant chunk of the population (the vice versa is applicable too). Anyone can protest any law or policy, they don't deserve being called anti-national just because they protest. I wonder if we would call Lt Gen Syed Ata Hasnain anti-national or anti-Hindu if he comes out against this law. Note that this is not to absolve the violent protesters of any crime - they must be punished as must their political mai-baaps.


This is rubbish.

If political protesters engage in rabid anti-Hindu sloganeering it deserves to be called out and noted for what it is. To claim that doing so is "visceral hatred towards a significant chunk of the population" is wrong. It implies that an entire community is full of bigots and hence its ok for them to do so, and one should ignore it. The worst kind of acceptance possible.

In fact, its the sloganeers who clearly have visceral hatred towards a significant chunk of the population.

"Hinduon se azaadi" is the worst kind of bigotry there is given both its historical antecedents and also what its being used today for, events like the Pulwama attack or Indian Mujahideen's antics.

Simply put neither of you can deny the above is not "really rotten meat".

To most rational folks, the kind of slogans used in the event were really rotten by themselves *and* anti-national, as the nation includes Hindus and to deliberately, provocatively use this kind of sloganeering to ask for a break away is very clear about what the protesters want.

And lets not bring in Syed Hasnain or Abdul Kalam or this person or that person whenever any idiot is discussed. First, they'd likely be as offended at these peoples behavior and know the long or even short term consequences of the sloganeering and rabid behavior on public perception. Second, people like Gen Afsar Karim coined terms like "the running dogs of jihad" for Pakistanis who spoke much the same language as above "Hinduon se Azadi".

Lets not constantly bring these folks in as some kind of 1 man counterweight to the idiocy that the rest do. It doesn't work and all you are doing is dragging everyone to the same table and painting them with the same brush. This virtue signaling achieves nothing. Most people can see right through the local fallacies inherent in your argument - bringing up a good guy to excuse the bad behavior engaged in by others, when both are not even correlated, and second, over time, folks will start attacking the "good guys", and attempt to tear down national icons merely because they are frustrated at one group being trotted out as cover fire for the second.

Accept the fact the behavior engaged in by these jokers was unacceptable and there is a widespread radicalization problem and then at least you have a credible position to propose solutions, as versus denying the reality altogether.

vinod
BRFite
Posts: 742
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby vinod » 21 Dec 2019 06:53

In few days this will fizzle out. Then what? How do we manage this jihadis? We need a policy that lasts decades.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19579
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Karan M » 21 Dec 2019 06:55

Vinod, correct. And for that, we need to acknowledge the problem.The 2 ladies were big fans of the Moplah genocide's leaders. Apparently, that's now mainstreamed - that those 2 dudes were religious "counter revolutionaries" and professing violent forms of jihad is also ok. Such stuff is a huge problem already.

Sanju
BRFite
Posts: 1178
Joined: 14 Aug 2005 01:00
Location: North of 49

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Sanju » 21 Dec 2019 06:57

For those supporting the addition of the Ahmadis into the CAA just don't know their history. Please go and read about their "contribution" to the Pakistan project and to the Rape and Loot of J&K in 1947-48.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19579
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Karan M » 21 Dec 2019 07:24

Of one thing I am sure, the crackdown on the left-nexus in our public institutions is long overdue. If there is a 2nd Trump term, Modi & co should make this their first priority.

vishvak
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 5836
Joined: 12 Aug 2011 21:19

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby vishvak » 21 Dec 2019 07:55

We cannot be patriotic while having visceral hatred towards a significant chunk of the population (the vice versa is applicable too).

Why a race to bottom if religious riots are passed off as protest?

During noakhali riots Gandhi used to travel barefoot, now pakilands is formed so why this riots? Can the common hindoo goto a mob and ask for individual explanation of what exactly the problem is.

We are a democracy, support democracy in other countries too like Afghanistan so what more we need to do.
In Chittagong, they met Frederick Burrows, the Governor of Bengal, who assured them that according to Suhrawardy, the Prime Minister of Bengal, everything was peaceful and orderly. He explained the rape and molestation of Hindu women as natural because they were more attractive than Muslim women

That was back then but what's exact reason now.

Cain Marko
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4436
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 10:26

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Cain Marko » 21 Dec 2019 09:19

Karan M wrote:Of one thing I am sure, the crackdown on the left-nexus in our public institutions is long overdue. If there is a 2nd Trump term, Modi & co should make this their first priority.

What does it have to do with Trumps victory or defeat?

Cain Marko
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4436
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 10:26

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Cain Marko » 21 Dec 2019 09:26

What a lot of people on the left as well as muslims totally dont realize is that Hindus and a lot of others in this world are very, very close to running out of patience wrt their chicanery. they really shouldn't take this too far, it'll be everybody's undoing, but their total burial.

In any case all of this was predicted by , P. Muhammad himself, in retrospect, quite prophetic as it should be. The ball is now rolling and one doubts anything will stop it. We're sitting on a bloody powder keg, and those who are closest to it are playing with fire.

CRamS
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6805
Joined: 07 Oct 2006 20:54
Contact:

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby CRamS » 21 Dec 2019 09:40

vinod wrote:In few days this will fizzle out. Then what? How do we manage this jihadis? We need a policy that lasts decades.


Possible, but IMO, it depends on Jharkand results. Yes, if its an outright BJP win as RamanaGaru and others expect, yes, this will fizzle out. But not sure how much to believe exit polls given their abject failure in the Maha and Haryana polls, but exit polls are predicting either a hung assembly or a Pappu/Sonia win. Either of these outcomes will be spun as rejection of CAA and impending NRC. Saba Naqi, one of the opposition's media mouthpieces was already salivating on this prospect on TimesNow. Under this outcome, I see protests continuing and may reach a crescendo as Delhi elections approach in Feb.

Katare
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2579
Joined: 02 Mar 2002 12:31

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Katare » 21 Dec 2019 10:03

Karan M wrote:
Katare wrote:
Ofcourse, azadi from anything is fine!


Really? That's literally how the 2 nation theory was pushed for, and led to the Direct Action Day, and the deaths, murders, rapes of countless non Muslims and later Muslims as well. Should we ignore that? Also, if Hindus start saying "Musalmano se Azadi" will that even be acceptable (leaving aside the ethical, moral aspects out of the picture).
Can anyone here for instance, walk around in *any* secular society with a large placard stating " i want freedom from muslims" and not suffer significant consequences or blow-back? If so, the other case should be held as equally offensive.


What the hell are you talking about, you obviously know little about two nation theory, partition and political Islam and how it works. You can walk around with any sign board including most hateful ones anywhere in a democratic country, its not an issue unless it’s call for violence. In USOfA skin heads and KKK take out rallies with sign board that mKe anyone’s blood boil, but so what?

Its not matter of right, wrong, acceptable or not acceptable. If people feel persecuted ( rightly or wrongly) they have right to protest regardless of however unacceptable it might be to anyone as long as its peaceful and within the law.

Personally to me it’s unacceptable but so what? Protesting against majority domination (perceived or real) is fine and dandy, that’s how democracy works by allowing a pressure relief valve.

Again my request wAs to try and find bigger fishes but you have started an attack Instead of trying to understand
Last edited by Katare on 21 Dec 2019 10:52, edited 4 times in total.

Katare
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2579
Joined: 02 Mar 2002 12:31

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Katare » 21 Dec 2019 10:24

Karan M wrote:
Nikhil T wrote:+1. We cannot be patriotic while having visceral hatred towards a significant chunk of the population (the vice versa is applicable too). Anyone can protest any law or policy, they don't deserve being called anti-national just because they protest. I wonder if we would call Lt Gen Syed Ata Hasnain anti-national or anti-Hindu if he comes out against this law. Note that this is not to absolve the violent protesters of any crime - they must be punished as must their political mai-baaps.


This is rubbish.

If political protesters engage in rabid anti-Hindu sloganeering it deserves to be called out and noted for what it is. To claim that doing so is "visceral hatred towards a significant chunk of the population" is wrong. It implies that an entire community is full of bigots and hence its ok for them to do so, and one should ignore it. The worst kind of acceptance possible.

In fact, its the sloganeers who clearly have visceral hatred towards a significant chunk of the population.

"Hinduon se azaadi" is the worst kind of bigotry there is given both its historical antecedents and also what its being used today for, events like the Pulwama attack or Indian Mujahideen's antics.

Simply put neither of you can deny the above is not "really rotten meat".

To most rational folks, the kind of slogans used in the event were really rotten by themselves *and* anti-national, as the nation includes Hindus and to deliberately, provocatively use this kind of sloganeering to ask for a break away is very clear about what the protesters want.

And lets not bring in Syed Hasnain or Abdul Kalam or this person or that person whenever any idiot is discussed. First, they'd likely be as offended at these peoples behavior and know the long or even short term consequences of the sloganeering and rabid behavior on public perception. Second, people like Gen Afsar Karim coined terms like "the running dogs of jihad" for Pakistanis who spoke much the same language as above "Hinduon se Azadi".

Lets not constantly bring these folks in as some kind of 1 man counterweight to the idiocy that the rest do. It doesn't work and all you are doing is dragging everyone to the same table and painting them with the same brush. This virtue signaling achieves nothing. Most people can see right through the local fallacies inherent in your argument - bringing up a good guy to excuse the bad behavior engaged in by others, when both are not even correlated, and second, over time, folks will start attacking the "good guys", and attempt to tear down national icons merely because they are frustrated at one group being trotted out as cover fire for the second.

Accept the fact the behavior engaged in by these jokers was unacceptable and there is a widespread radicalization problem and then at least you have a credible position to propose solutions, as versus denying the reality altogether.


You start your post with calling an argument that you don’t like “This is rubbish” and write nothing but rubbish.

Hinduon se azadi is worst kind of bigotry to you? More than murdering a hindu leader for calling prophet a gay man? Raising pro pakistani slogans on indian soil is less bigoted than this slogan for you? How about gazwa-e-hind? Converting countless innocent young girls in Keral and sending them to Syria to serve as sex slave is less bigoted to you? Afzal tere katil zinfa hai and tukde tukde are not worse than this?

The suggestion was to focus on more substantial materials that will stick for long time to come rather than trying to turn a chotta mota protest into something that it isn’t. Not sure whT is your problem.

Even if it is unacceptable, so what? It’s a-free country and people have right to free speech. Shit that you have written is also a shining example of rotten meat and bigotry, that is fine by me too.

Rest of your post is useless drivel that demolished so many strawmen of your own making! Who the F are u and I to decide what is acceptable and what is not?

You claim majority of rational people would find the slogans unacceptable- have you done a survey of Majority of rational people ? Who determined who is rationL?

Talk for yourself, don’t try putting weight of mJority behind your own views and opinions.

They are wrong their slogans are poor, they are radicalized, bigoted and xyz, as long as they are peaceful, within university campus and democratic, it’s fine.

For the ones rioting, burning and throwing stone—-goli maro salon ko

praksam
BRFite
Posts: 478
Joined: 26 Nov 2009 19:19

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby praksam » 21 Dec 2019 10:59

Pro CAA rally in Delhi last night.

https://twitter.com/KapilMishra_IND/sta ... 60704?s=09

Hopefully this episode will consolidate the Hindus. After the 2019 Victory of BJP, the Muslims and seculars have realised very well that they have lost their political space in this country and are trying very hard to put their foot in the closing door. This is one of those. Be prepared for more in the future.

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5380
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Karthik S » 21 Dec 2019 11:30

‘When All Idols Will Be Removed...Only Allah’s Name Will Remain’: Jamia Solidarity Event At IIT Kanpur Sparks Row


https://swarajyamag.com/politics/when-a ... sparks-row

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 22787
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby chetak » 21 Dec 2019 11:36

vinod wrote:In few days this will fizzle out. Then what? How do we manage this jihadis? We need a policy that lasts decades.




going forward, this will become the new template of the commies/muslims/urban naxals/BIF.

it will be further refined, focussed, developed and fine tuned so as to effectively weaponize the process.

This is how they will attempt to derail the legitimate electoral verdict and effectively disenfranchise the Hindus.

Sanju
BRFite
Posts: 1178
Joined: 14 Aug 2005 01:00
Location: North of 49

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Sanju » 21 Dec 2019 11:46

Chetak saar, Our trio will not be static, they would have gamed this and ensured that appropriate counter measures are put in place.

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5380
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Karthik S » 21 Dec 2019 11:48

ANI
@ANI
Indian Railway: Railways property worth Rs 88 Cr damaged in protests against citizenship act- property worth Rs 72 Cr damaged in Eastern Railway Zone, property worth Rs 13 Cr damaged in South Eastern Railway Zone and property worth Rs 3 Cr damaged in NorthEast Frontier Zone

Nikhil T
BRFite
Posts: 1286
Joined: 09 Nov 2008 06:48
Location: RAW HQ, Lodhi Road

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Nikhil T » 21 Dec 2019 11:50

Karan M wrote:Of one thing I am sure, the crackdown on the left-nexus in our public institutions is long overdue. If there is a 2nd Trump term, Modi & co should make this their first priority.


This is gold. Our wonderful “deradicalization” plans must wait for Trump to win a second term. We must wait for the gora saab and memsaabs blessing and then we’ll open internment camps everywhere for our own countrymen. Sounds familiar?

manjgu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2376
Joined: 11 Aug 2006 10:33

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby manjgu » 21 Dec 2019 11:52

the way to come out against the law/act/bill is to challenge it in court and accept the verdict. if u r chanting hindu/hindutva ki kabr khudegi etcetc then there is a problem.young girls talking like ISIS goons... syllabus of islamic studies in kerala univs openly teaching jihad etc. there is a radicalization problem which cant be wished away. its actually the minority which has unbridled hatred for the majority and its way of life though themselves they are converts to islam from hinduism. the hindus are busy teaching secularism / democracy to their kids and the mullahs are teaching jihad !!

manjgu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2376
Joined: 11 Aug 2006 10:33

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby manjgu » 21 Dec 2019 11:53

changing history syllabus should be 1st priority... and passing of other laws like uCC, population control etc. wtf has trump victory got to do with it. modi has 4 yrs till 2024... he should be moving in 10th gear...

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14147
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby pankajs » 21 Dec 2019 12:00

Karan M wrote:
Katare wrote:
Ofcourse, azadi from anything is fine!


Really? That's literally how the 2 nation theory was pushed for, and led to the Direct Action Day, and the deaths, murders, rapes of countless non Muslims and later Muslims as well. Should we ignore that? Also, if Hindus start saying "Musalmano se Azadi" will that even be acceptable (leaving aside the ethical, moral aspects out of the picture).
Can anyone here for instance, walk around in *any* secular society with a large placard stating " i want freedom from muslims" and not suffer significant consequences or blow-back? If so, the other case should be held as equally offensive.

Some people think "Hinduon se azadi" or "Muslamano se azadi" is same as "Gareebi se azadi" when clearly it is not. Any slogan that pits one section of society, whether in the name of religion or language or caste or creed or race, is not acceptable.

Some people think having "absolute" FoS is the way to go, where as
a. FoS is not free or absolute. Any slogan that attempts to divide the population is to be condemned. Condemning such slogan is not only ethical but also the in line with Indian law and courts judgement.
b. Just because something may work in a relatively homogeneous"western" society does not mean it is correct for a diverse society like India.
c. This militant version of FoS, which originate in the west, has started to be questioned even in the western countries as they confront increasing diversity.

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5380
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Karthik S » 21 Dec 2019 12:03

卐 Panditayan 卐
@Sayani_Pandit
This is what happened in Meerut yesterday.. THREAD
1. 30 jawans (10 frm police and rest frm RAF) were made hostage by muslim mob, 1 died
2. They threw bottles full of petro/kerosene on forces o burn them alive
3. They burnt a Police station (200m from my house), a Police post 1/n
11:07 AM · Dec 21, 2019·Twitter Web App
111
Retweets
60
Likes
卐 Panditayan 卐
@Sayani_Pandit
·
33m
Replying to
@Sayani_Pandit
4. The firing from both sides continued for hours (wonder where they got arsenal from)
5. half of the city (muslims) mobilized against India and its forces, almost everyone was in the streets and on their terraces, pelting stones, throwing inflammable liquid
2/n
卐 Panditayan 卐
@Sayani_Pandit
·
31m
6. Intelligence failure as police could not anticipate an attack of this stature
7. My washerman who is a muslim told us that since weeks a local Congress politician was roaming in his Mohalla instigating, provoking them and planning with them the attack!!
3/n
卐 Panditayan 卐
@Sayani_Pandit
·
28m
8. I am stuck in Delhi, i fear for my family (maternal and paternal) as we are surrounded by extremist muslims from all sides
9. I grew up in these riots
10. My dad was bedridden for 2 years after they burnt his hospital in 1992 , he used to treat them for free
4/n
卐 Panditayan 卐
@Sayani_Pandit
·
27m
11. His trauma caused him a problem that he could not recover from for many years , we faced it all
12.His friend who was a doc who decided to ignore riots and still went ahead in his feat to treat his patient was burnt alive in the car
13. This will happen again! all of this 5/n
卐 Panditayan 卐
@Sayani_Pandit
·
25m
14. I am ashamed that we mainland Hindus still talk of secularism
15. I am ashamed that we could not do anything for our Kashmiri Hindus
16. I am ashamed that we live with them
17. I am ashamed that we did not celebrate Ram Mandir verdict 6/n
卐 Panditayan 卐
@Sayani_Pandit
·
23m
I plead all of us, who have iota of sympathy and secularism left in them, please wake up, it is now or never! #CAASupport #CAA_NRC_Protests #IstandwithModi
卐 Panditayan 卐
@Sayani_Pandit
·
11m
I forgot to add, they fired at city hospital too!!


It's time govt took stern action, normal citizens and police can't be pawns in NM or AS chess game that they can be sacrificed during the start of a chess game.

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 22787
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby chetak » 21 Dec 2019 12:05

Sanju wrote:Chetak saar, Our trio will not be static, they would have gamed this and ensured that appropriate counter measures are put in place.


I genuinely feel for them, saar.

unfortunately, they cannot factor in the bad publicity from the fallout that the BIF will pick up on and use it to defame the Hindus.

look at that geriatric malaysian ahole mahathir and his gratuitously false interpretation.

How is any of this his business :mrgreen:

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5380
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Karthik S » 21 Dec 2019 12:06

We have an entire mob having arms and using them against security personnel, and here we have yindoos talking about what protest is democratic and what is not.

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 22787
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby chetak » 21 Dec 2019 12:09

manjgu wrote:changing history syllabus should be 1st priority... and passing of other laws like uCC, population control etc. wtf has trump victory got to do with it. modi has 4 yrs till 2024... he should be moving in 10th gear...


kuch kaam ki baat karo, na

the minority and madrasa chaap schools will always teach a very different history

how long do we need to wait for the wisdom to kick in

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14147
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby pankajs » 21 Dec 2019 12:10

CRamS wrote:
vinod wrote:In few days this will fizzle out. Then what? How do we manage this jihadis? We need a policy that lasts decades.


Possible, but IMO, it depends on Jharkand results. Yes, if its an outright BJP win as RamanaGaru and others expect, yes, this will fizzle out. But not sure how much to believe exit polls given their abject failure in the Maha and Haryana polls, but exit polls are predicting either a hung assembly or a Pappu/Sonia win. Either of these outcomes will be spun as rejection of CAA and impending NRC. Saba Naqi, one of the opposition's media mouthpieces was already salivating on this prospect on TimesNow. Under this outcome, I see protests continuing and may reach a crescendo as Delhi elections approach in Feb.

Possible ... but that will only hand BJP a victory in Delhi. Jharkand election cannot be the test simply because elections were half done by the time the protests started and Jharkand hasn't been directly been impacted by it.

IF Delhi election is in Feb 2020, that should be considered as the real test for both the above reason.

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14147
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby pankajs » 21 Dec 2019 12:21

Katare wrote:
Karan M wrote:
Really? That's literally how the 2 nation theory was pushed for, and led to the Direct Action Day, and the deaths, murders, rapes of countless non Muslims and later Muslims as well. Should we ignore that? Also, if Hindus start saying "Musalmano se Azadi" will that even be acceptable (leaving aside the ethical, moral aspects out of the picture).
Can anyone here for instance, walk around in *any* secular society with a large placard stating " i want freedom from muslims" and not suffer significant consequences or blow-back? If so, the other case should be held as equally offensive.


What the hell are you talking about, you obviously know little about two nation theory, partition and political Islam and how it works. You can walk around with any sign board including most hateful ones anywhere in a democratic country, its not an issue unless it’s call for violence. In USOfA skin heads and KKK take out rallies with sign board that mKe anyone’s blood boil, but so what?

Its not matter of right, wrong, acceptable or not acceptable. If people feel persecuted ( rightly or wrongly) they have right to protest regardless of however unacceptable it might be to anyone as long as its peaceful and within the law.

Personally to me it’s unacceptable but so what? Protesting against majority domination (perceived or real) is fine and dandy, that’s how democracy works by allowing a pressure relief valve.

Again my request wAs to try and find bigger fishes but you have started an attack Instead of trying to understand

This is what is wrong ...

a. US policies are NOT applicable to Indian landscape in toto or without modification else we could have just adopted the US constitution on 15th August 1947. That we did not surely means something.

b. A diverse country like India cannot have the exact copy of laws of a "relatively" homogeneous countries.

c. Indian laws are very clear that FoS is NOT absolute any incitement in the name of Religion, Caste or Language is counter to the law.

d. US itself has started thinking/debating the contours of FoS now that it is getting more diverse racially and religiously.

Nikhil T
BRFite
Posts: 1286
Joined: 09 Nov 2008 06:48
Location: RAW HQ, Lodhi Road

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Nikhil T » 21 Dec 2019 12:22

Karan M wrote:
"Hinduon se azaadi" is the worst kind of bigotry there is given both its historical antecedents


And lets not bring in Syed Hasnain or Abdul Kalam or this person or that person whenever any idiot is discussed. First, they'd likely be as offended at these peoples behavior and know the long or even short term consequences of the sloganeering and rabid behavior on public perception. Second, people like Gen Afsar Karim coined terms like "the running dogs of jihad" for Pakistanis who spoke much the same language as above "Hinduon se Azadi".

Lets not constantly bring these folks in as some kind of 1 man counterweight to the idiocy that the rest do. It doesn't work and all you are doing is dragging everyone to the same table and painting them with the same brush. This virtue signaling achieves nothing. Most people can see right through the local fallacies inherent in your argument - bringing up a good guy to excuse the bad behavior engaged in by others, when both are not even correlated, and second, over time, folks will start attacking the "good guys", and attempt to tear down national icons merely because they are frustrated at one group being trotted out as cover fire for the second.



I couldn’t find a better example of irony. You dismiss Lt Gen Syed Ata Hasnain as a one off example, that I’m using to paint everyone in the same brush. You’re using one slogan to paint the entire lot of protestors with the same brush!

The fact is that there are umpteen images of protestors waving national flags, pictures of Gandhi/Ambedkar, posters of secularism and unity, and demonstrating peacefully. Similarly there are a lot of perfectly patriotic Hindus protesting against CAA and NRC. You just choose to ignore those images because pointing to one off slogans is a convenient mask for your own visceral hatred and biases.


Accept the fact the behavior engaged in by these jokers was unacceptable and there is a widespread radicalization problem and then at least you have a credible position to propose solutions, as versus denying the reality altogether.

Nobody is denying radicalization problem in Muslims. It must be dealt with, but surely not by threatening all Muslims citizenship. Let’s also admit there’s a bigotry problem amongst a section of Hindus as well. Only earlier this week there was a video of a Karnataka school students enacting the demolition of Babri masjid for their annual day. What is that if not bigotry? Similarly, much of the new found distaste for violent protests is just that. I’ve already provided examples of Hindu protestors (Patidars, Jaats) who have earlier engaged in even more violent protests. This holier than thou and name calling only exposes your selective memory.

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5380
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Karthik S » 21 Dec 2019 12:31

Nikhil T wrote:Nobody is denying radicalization problem in Muslims. It must be dealt with, but surely not by threatening all Muslims citizenship.


what you mean by that?

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14147
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby pankajs » 21 Dec 2019 12:36

A Random gora tweets ..

https://twitter.com/TimDraper/status/12 ... 5616519173
Tim Draper @TimDraper

India choosing one religion over another makes me seriously concerned about my plans to fund businesses there. #freedom #freedomofreligion.

https://twitter.com/ShashiTharoor/statu ... 2199519232
Shashi Tharoor @ShashiTharoor

Please don’t abandon the people of India, who are overwhelmingly not bigots. This government only represents 37% of a vast, inclusive, humane electorate. The real India is reasserting itself in the streets this week. Invest in their future.
This would be puke worthy coming from any Indian citizen BUT especially coming from an MP.

Cain Marko
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4436
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 10:26

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Cain Marko » 21 Dec 2019 12:37

Karthik S wrote:
卐 Panditayan 卐
@Sayani_Pandit
This is what happened in Meerut yesterday.. THREAD
1. 30 jawans (10 frm police and rest frm RAF) were made hostage by muslim mob, 1 died
2. They threw bottles full of petro/kerosene on forces o burn them alive
3. They burnt a Police station (200m from my house), a Police post 1/n
11:07 AM · Dec 21, 2019·Twitter Web App
111
Retweets
60
Likes
卐 Panditayan 卐
@Sayani_Pandit
·
33m
Replying to
@Sayani_Pandit
4. The firing from both sides continued for hours (wonder where they got arsenal from)
5. half of the city (muslims) mobilized against India and its forces, almost everyone was in the streets and on their terraces, pelting stones, throwing inflammable liquid
2/n
卐 Panditayan 卐
@Sayani_Pandit
·
31m
6. Intelligence failure as police could not anticipate an attack of this stature
7. My washerman who is a muslim told us that since weeks a local Congress politician was roaming in his Mohalla instigating, provoking them and planning with them the attack!!
3/n
卐 Panditayan 卐
@Sayani_Pandit
·
28m
8. I am stuck in Delhi, i fear for my family (maternal and paternal) as we are surrounded by extremist muslims from all sides
9. I grew up in these riots
10. My dad was bedridden for 2 years after they burnt his hospital in 1992 , he used to treat them for free
4/n
卐 Panditayan 卐
@Sayani_Pandit
·
27m
11. His trauma caused him a problem that he could not recover from for many years , we faced it all
12.His friend who was a doc who decided to ignore riots and still went ahead in his feat to treat his patient was burnt alive in the car
13. This will happen again! all of this 5/n
卐 Panditayan 卐
@Sayani_Pandit
·
25m
14. I am ashamed that we mainland Hindus still talk of secularism
15. I am ashamed that we could not do anything for our Kashmiri Hindus
16. I am ashamed that we live with them
17. I am ashamed that we did not celebrate Ram Mandir verdict 6/n
卐 Panditayan 卐
@Sayani_Pandit
·
23m
I plead all of us, who have iota of sympathy and secularism left in them, please wake up, it is now or never! #CAASupport #CAA_NRC_Protests #IstandwithModi
卐 Panditayan 卐
@Sayani_Pandit
·
11m
I forgot to add, they fired at city hospital too!!


It's time govt took stern action, normal citizens and police can't be pawns in NM or AS chess game that they can be sacrificed during the start of a chess game.


While the above story is gut wrenching, how can we verify it?


Return to “Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Sagrawal and 50 guests