2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Cain Marko
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4436
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 10:26

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Cain Marko » 21 Dec 2019 12:39

pankajs wrote:A Random gora tweets ..

https://twitter.com/TimDraper/status/12 ... 5616519173
Tim Draper @TimDraper

India choosing one religion over another makes me seriously concerned about my plans to fund businesses there. #freedom #freedomofreligion.

https://twitter.com/ShashiTharoor/statu ... 2199519232
Shashi Tharoor @ShashiTharoor

Please don’t abandon the people of India, who are overwhelmingly not bigots. This government only represents 37% of a vast, inclusive, humane electorate. The real India is reasserting itself in the streets this week. Invest in their future.
This would be puke worthy coming from any Indian citizen BUT especially coming from an MP.

The appropriate response would have been ...eff off! Keep your investment, the returns will go to someone less preachy..

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 22787
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby chetak » 21 Dec 2019 12:40

no offence but if a dog "boasted" a free for all, liberated hippy family pedigree such as this, she would be called a mongrel. :mrgreen:

and she would also be neutered by the municipal corporation, and rightly so.


twitter


My mother is a Hindu, my biological father was a Christian, my adopted father - a Muslim. In all official documents, my religion status stays blank. Does religion determine I am an Indian? It never did and I hope it never does. #OneIndia #India

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14147
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby pankajs » 21 Dec 2019 12:57

Nikhil T wrote:
Accept the fact the behavior engaged in by these jokers was unacceptable and there is a widespread radicalization problem and then at least you have a credible position to propose solutions, as versus denying the reality altogether.

Nobody is denying radicalization problem in Muslims. It must be dealt with, but surely not by threatening all Muslims citizenship. Let’s also admit there’s a bigotry problem amongst a section of Hindus as well. Only earlier this week there was a video of a Karnataka school students enacting the demolition of Babri masjid for their annual day. What is that if not bigotry? Similarly, much of the new found distaste for violent protests is just that. I’ve already provided examples of Hindu protestors (Patidars, Jaats) who have earlier engaged in even more violent protests. This holier than thou and name calling only exposes your selective memory.

Problematic parts are highlighted ..

1. NO one is threatening ALL MUSLIM citizenship. Someone talking of irony shouldn't make such a goofup or is it deliberate? Either GOI is threatening ALL INDIAN citizenship or it is threatening none. You can't have it both ways. Not expected from someone giving gyan of "secularism and unity" to others.

2. On the Patidar or Jat agitation and violence
2a. These were CASTE agitation and not HINDU agitation. This holier than thou attitude is a mask and is so easy to expose.
2b. They were agitating FOR something/someone unlike agitating AGAINST something/someone. The difference between the two is in the Indian constitution and law and it is called "Positive discrimination". A Jat or Patidar agitation FOR reservation is no way comparable to a slogan AGAINST a particular religion that is embedded in the "Hinduon se Azadi".
2c. Even the above does NOT forgive the violence of the Jat or Patidar agitators. Violence in any name or form is totally unacceptable.

Kati
BRFite
Posts: 1391
Joined: 27 Jun 1999 11:31
Location: The planet Earth

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Kati » 21 Dec 2019 12:59

chetak wrote:no offence but if a dog "boasted" a free for all, liberated hippy family pedigree such as this, she would be called a mongrel. :mrgreen:

and she would also be neutered by the municipal corporation, and rightly so.


twitter


My mother is a Hindu, my biological father was a Christian, my adopted father - a Muslim. In all official documents, my religion status stays blank. Does religion determine I am an Indian? It never did and I hope it never does. #OneIndia #India


^^^
Who is this? Diya Mirza?

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14147
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby pankajs » 21 Dec 2019 13:03

WATCH the embedded video ..

https://twitter.com/TarekFatah/status/1 ... 8497761281
Tarek Fatah @TarekFatah

Indian Muslim ldr says his community will ‘overthrow’ the Indian Constitution crafted by #Ambedkar; replace it with one that suits Muslims.

Watch how crowd breaks into a cheer as he boasts of Muslim street muscle & his cry against India’s constitution.

A peaceful call to over throw the Indian constitution. How peaceful, democratic and in line with "Secularism and unity"

Just because a speech/slogan is delivered peacefully does not make it peaceful if it call for violence or in this case over-throw of the current Indian constitution.

Vikas
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6828
Joined: 03 Dec 2005 02:40
Location: Where DST doesn't bother me
Contact:

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Vikas » 21 Dec 2019 13:07

The way Islamists and Urban Naxals are instigating, we seem to be just a step away from reaction from the right. Usually the tipping point comes even before participants even realize it.
The main issue for BIF is that outside the select areas, There is hardly any movement or sympathy on ground level. After failure of Award-wapasi, Lynching, Rohith-Lankesh episodes, this is the new handle that BIF feels can be used to stab Bharat.

Rest of India is just watching the events unfolding on MSM and SM. One may not be a BJP supporter but still can react when instigation and violence would reach the tipping point.
e.g. How would UT keep Sainiks in check if a Anti-CAA rally becomes violent in Mumbai as rallies and march would most likely become in few days. With their own govt in place, Why would SS foot soldiers hold back.

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14147
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby pankajs » 21 Dec 2019 13:11

Just like CAA/NRC will threaten "All Muslims citizenship" it now seems that it also threatens "All Women who get married".

Per this lady, the CAA/NRC will not discriminate based on religion therefore it must be secular (My conclusion based on her thoughts). It boggles my mind as to the amount of brain-washing that has happens disguised as liberalism. Liberalism has started to resemble a very puritanical religion where the church leaders proclaim "truths" and the rest mouth it like sheep, no brain required.

WATCH the embedded video ...
https://twitter.com/knowthenation/statu ... 8426085377
Know The Nation @knowthenation

CAA is discriminatory against women who get married and change their surnames multiple times!”

Shocking levels of misinformation was found prevalent among youngsters especially girls.

This was at Mumbai August Kranti Maidan #CAA_NRC_Protests had

#ISupportCAA_NRC

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5380
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Karthik S » 21 Dec 2019 13:20

:rotfl: :rotfl:

darshhan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2564
Joined: 12 Dec 2008 11:52

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby darshhan » 21 Dec 2019 13:21

Katare wrote:.....
What the hell are you talking about, you obviously know little about two nation theory, partition and political Islam and how it works. You can walk around with any sign board including most hateful ones anywhere in a democratic country, its not an issue unless it’s call for violence. In USOfA skin heads and KKK take out rallies with sign board that mKe anyone’s blood boil, but so what?

Its not matter of right, wrong, acceptable or not acceptable. If people feel persecuted ( rightly or wrongly) they have right to protest regardless of however unacceptable it might be to anyone as long as its peaceful and within the law.

Personally to me it’s unacceptable but so what? Protesting against majority domination (perceived or real) is fine and dandy, that’s how democracy works by allowing a pressure relief valve.

Again my request wAs to try and find bigger fishes but you have started an attack Instead of trying to understand


This is not America dude. This is a land where more than 80 million hindus/sikhs/buddhists were murdered by islamics over last millenium. So any attempt by islamics to use right to protest as a facade for inciting hatred against Hindus will be construed as intent to kill Hindus.

Please do not justify genocide of hindus. We are not lambs waiting to be slaughtered.

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 22787
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby chetak » 21 Dec 2019 13:32

Kati wrote:
chetak wrote:no offence but if a dog "boasted" a free for all, liberated hippy family pedigree such as this, she would be called a mongrel. :mrgreen:

and she would also be neutered by the municipal corporation, and rightly so.


twitter




^^^
Who is this? Diya Mirza?


the one and onlee :mrgreen:

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14147
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby pankajs » 21 Dec 2019 13:34

Guys follow the handle @knowthenation for many such nuggets ...

Another gem .. First CAA/NRC was against ALL Muslims and then against ALL married Women and now it is against "Trans" people. Kya baat hai Mudi jee ..
https://twitter.com/knowthenation/statu ... 7729036289
Know The Nation @knowthenation

Saving the best for the last!!

These men at August Kranti Maidan #CAA_NRC_Protests were holding a placard that read - "Stop Transbill"

We couldn't resist inquiring.

"Ek tarah se country ka transformation ho raha hai..hamaare friend ne diya humien ye board!"

#ISupportCAA_NRC

1. A skullcap wearing guy protesting in favor of "Trans" people. Note, I have no way of knowing what religion this skullcap wearing gentleman belongs to but the irony couldn't be more grotesque. {Btw, before anyone objects on my commenting on his skullcap, I did not put it there. He choose to make it part of his identity and I am just an observer and a commentator.}

2. Notice how every kind of discrimination is sought to be linked to CAA/NRC. Isn't that magical? #ModiHaiToMumkainHai Modi has done more for opposition unity than anyone else in Indian history. He is THE #UniterInChief.

3. It can only means that some liberandu organization is behind the gathering for only they could have thought of such off-topic posters that has little or no connection to CAA/NRC. Our sickular class is very in-tune with the global "liberal/progressives". Very woke of them for this "virtue signally" protest.

4. Sheeples don't know what they are holding or protesting except that it is a bad law, unconstitutional and is dividing people.

Hail the Church of Liberandus and its sheeples. Theek hai.

praksam
BRFite
Posts: 478
Joined: 26 Nov 2009 19:19

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby praksam » 21 Dec 2019 13:48

When the Hindus come out in open, this is how it will be like.

https://twitter.com/abhi_thakurnew/stat ... 26947?s=09

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14147
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby pankajs » 21 Dec 2019 13:51

More gems ..

https://twitter.com/knowthenation/statu ... 5663319042
Know The Nation @knowthenation

#CAA_NRC_Protests August Kranti Maidan:

"Muslims will be sent to detention camps!"

"Where are these detention camps? Inside or outside India?"

"I don't know"

"Did you see this bit about detention camps in the news?"

"I saw a video clip somewhere online.."

#ISupportCAA_NRC

Only sheepels belonging to the Church of Liberandus will talk such "fact free" nonsense BUT this is to be expected in the post-truth world.

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14147
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby pankajs » 21 Dec 2019 13:55

Another gem .. from the world of highly educated and English speaking liberal and woke sheeples from the Church of Liberandus ... Watch

https://twitter.com/knowthenation/statu ... 8981935104
Know The Nation @knowthenation

"Our PAN cards and Aadhar cards won't prove our identity as Indians. But it's okay since CAA will detect us Hindus. But Muslims will be sent off to detention camps built all across the country," say these oblivious girls at #CAA_NRC_Protests August Kranti Maidan

Supposedly Amit Shah stated this and more .. stating with "All the minorities and Muslims will be pushed out of the country .."

How much of a dumb-head and sheeple does one have to be to believe this propoganda? I mean the law, at least in its intent is tailored to facilitate Indian citizenship for "Sikhs, Buddhist, Jains, Parsi and Christians" apart from Hindus. IS she saying that "Sikhs, Buddhist, Jains, Parsi and Christians" are NOT minorities. Even a cursory reading or following the news would have made this part clear.

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14147
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby pankajs » 21 Dec 2019 14:03

https://twitter.com/SirJadeja/status/12 ... 1729906690
Sir Jadeja fan @SirJadeja
Ghar Se Kuch Dur
Nikalte Hi Chalte Hi

Image
Image

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 22787
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby chetak » 21 Dec 2019 14:06

This dude has got it right.

things that have been "lost" since Modi came to power


twitter


The protests aren't about CAA they are about different folks demanding different things.

Muslims want to restore the street veto, Congress wants to restore the power veto, intellectual-journalist-student comrades want their narrative veto.

Vikas
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6828
Joined: 03 Dec 2005 02:40
Location: Where DST doesn't bother me
Contact:

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Vikas » 21 Dec 2019 14:08

Pankajs, Those who understand support CAA, Those who don't want to understand will always find excuses.
Anyways Which act of current Govt did not displease Islamists ?

praksam
BRFite
Posts: 478
Joined: 26 Nov 2009 19:19

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby praksam » 21 Dec 2019 14:13

dheere,dheere, janta ko samajh mei aa raha hai


Vikas
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6828
Joined: 03 Dec 2005 02:40
Location: Where DST doesn't bother me
Contact:

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Vikas » 21 Dec 2019 14:14

chetak wrote:This dude has got it right.

things that have been "lost" since Modi came to power


twitter


The protests aren't about CAA they are about different folks demanding different things.

Muslims want to restore the street veto, Congress wants to restore the power veto, intellectual-journalist-student comrades want their narrative veto.


This is the bottom line of all that is happening in India since NM came to power.
It is the raj of Lootens and entitlement mentality that is under threat and hence the violence and rejection of Majority of India.
Even if Govt wins this round, Islamists will be itching for next fight, next battle, next Godhra...It is a long drawn battle.
I wonder if Govt is giving long rope to these veto-dalal before pulling the lever or if they did not take this kind of reaction in account.
BTW will the BIF and Islamists and Fasco-Liberal spoil Xmas for NRC by violence and destruction of property.
Wait till some commie inspired scum calls this Govt insensitive and butcher once it hangs Rapist/murderers of Nirbhaya.

Sanju
BRFite
Posts: 1178
Joined: 14 Aug 2005 01:00
Location: North of 49

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Sanju » 21 Dec 2019 14:14

Un-secularing the secular Hindu

Mahesh Vikram Hegde
‏ @mvmeet
13h13 hours ago

Forgive me for being secular till now!

I have also opposed and abused Modi!
Buh CAA has opened my eyes!

Please forgive me for all my mistakes.
I will never repeat them in future!


There is a change happening amongst the Seculars.... Seculars are always the Hindus, as only the Hindus need to be secular.

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14147
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby pankajs » 21 Dec 2019 14:35

Another gem ... Embedded video of highly educated and woke people with body piercing and all.

https://twitter.com/knowthenation/statu ... 1047356421
Know The Nation @knowthenation

"I came here because I hate Modi & Shah."

Who is spreading this hate?

When asked who was excluded, another young lady could not answer and requested us to stop shooting.

Who is misleading them?

This is from #CAA_NRC_Protests at Mumbai's August Kranti Maidan

#ISupportCAA_NRC

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14147
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby pankajs » 21 Dec 2019 14:40

Now our highly educated politicians are "Inaugurated" protests instead of "leading" them .. kya baat hai Mudi jee ..

https://twitter.com/ShashiTharoor/statu ... 7705355264
Shashi Tharoor @ShashiTharoor

Inaugurated a huge protest dharna by ⁦@INCKerala ⁩ in Palakkad this morning. Terrific turnout to hear me inveigh at length against what theBJP government is doing to the nation through the #CAA & #NRC exercises, instead of attending to the sinking economy they have destroyed

Did he do ribbon cutting or did he break a coconut?

Why do I get the impression that Shampoo buoy is trying to be the latest "Shero"? Is he on the verge of being reeled in for his wife?

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14147
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby pankajs » 21 Dec 2019 14:49

https://twitter.com/swapan55/status/1208196510271377408
Swapan Dasgupta @swapan55

It is increasingly becoming clear that the present wave of disturbances constitute a Muslim uprising against the community’s political marginalisation. The Citizenship issue is a convenient add-on. They have been joined by Left radicals and liberals who seek open borders,
Swapan Dasgupta @swapan55

The energy for the protests come from those who were devastated after the 2019 general election. They are now riding piggyback on a community that lost its political veto power. The objectives are clear: cripple Modi. In this game, the liberals are the proverbial useful idiots.

Sachin
Webmaster BR
Posts: 7993
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Undisclosed

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Sachin » 21 Dec 2019 14:54

Modi to kick off BJP's Delhi Assembly poll campaign with rally at Ramlila Maidan on Dec 22
Some "secular" media channels are forecasting a terrorist attack during this BJP mega rally. It is suspected that terror modules have reached Delhi, during all the mayhem caused by the anti-CAA protesters. A worrisome fact is that the top leadership of BJP is expected to be attending the event (not one or two leaders).

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14147
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby pankajs » 21 Dec 2019 14:59

Our liberandus see protests only in BJP rules states .. What kind of IQ does such mental blindness require?

https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... i-6177870/
CAA protests LIVE: 35 arrested for stone-pelting in Madhya Pradesh

At least 35 people have been arrested in connection with Friday's violent protests in Madhya Pradesh, which left 20 police personnel injured, an official told PTI. Demonstrations against the law were held across the state on Friday, with protesters pelting stones at police in some places. Police used baton charge to disperse the protesters. Curfew was imposed in parts of Jabalpur city, while the internet was suspended for six hours in the capital city of Bhopal. Police have arrested 35 people for stone-pelting, which left 20 police personnel injured, Jabalpur Superintendent of Police Amit Singh said on Saturday. Curfew has been imposed in Gohalpur and Hanumantal police station areas and some parts of Kotwali and Adharta in the city, he said, adding that the situation in all these places is being reviewed.
CAA protests LIVE: 20 detained, 130 booked for violence in Maharashtra

Twenty people have been detained and 130 booked in Hingoli district in Marathawada region of Maharashtra for allegedly damaging public property and rioting during separate protests, an official said on Saturday PTI reported. The violence was reported in Kalamnuri town and Hingoli city in the district on Friday in which stones were hurled at policemen, he said. "So far, police have detained around 20 people for damaging public property and rioting," the official said. He said 130 people have been booked for cheating, attempting to murder, endangering life or personal safety of others, voluntarily causing hurt by dangerous weapons or means and unlawful assembly. Cases were also registered at Parbhani and Beed districts against some protesters under relevant sections of the Indian Penal Code. Three people have been arrested in Parbhani district in separate violence-related incidents.

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14147
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby pankajs » 21 Dec 2019 15:03

How to you spread FUD?

https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... i-6177870/
Over half of Chhattisgarh people won't be able to prove citizenship if NRC rolled out: Baghel

Chhattisgarh Chief Minister Bhupesh Baghel has said that if the National Register of Citizens (NRC) is implemented, over half the population in his state will not be able to prove their citizenship as they neither have land nor land records. He also said that half the people in Chhattisgarh do not possess any document to prove their citizenship as their ancestors were illiterate who migrated to different villages or states. "In Chhattisgarh, there are 2.80 crore people and more than half of them will not be able to prove their citizenship. They neither have land records nor land. Their forefathers were illiterate. Most of them migrated to other villages or states. From where they will bring the 50-100 years old documents," he asked. "This is just an unnecessary burden on people. We have several agencies to check infiltration in the country. The agencies can take action against the infiltrators. But how come they (Centre) can trouble the common people," he said.
1987 cut off is about 32 years .. not 50 or 100.

Sachin
Webmaster BR
Posts: 7993
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Undisclosed

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Sachin » 21 Dec 2019 15:07

General observation on how psy-ops is conducted in social media groups in KL. There are a couple of travel groups which I am part off. These groups generally have more peacefool membership (may be because they are more travelers then the other communities).
1. Multiple posters talk about a new "VISA" regime in North East. They highlight this with a punch line that how this move would effect tourists, bike riders etc. This is done to cause animosity in the tourist & rider groups towards GoI. What is actually the case is ILP - one document which these fellows have any ways been used to when travelling to places like Leh & Ladakh.
2. One traveler (!?) will post an innocent question like - Can I travel from Palakkad to Bangalore?. A few others would say No, it is a risky trip. There *may be* problems on the route. Where the truth is that there is absolutely no problem in the entire stretch of around 300+ kms. This is done to create an image that the entire India is burning.

PS: The main stream media outlets are any ways outright liars. One news media reported that Internet has been banned in Bengaluru city, and I could read the very same news using my cell phone data connection :P. But many idiots in KL have now taken it to be gospel truth, without realising how big the city is and how blocking some thing like internet would effect the IT cos.

vishvak
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 5836
Joined: 12 Aug 2011 21:19

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby vishvak » 21 Dec 2019 15:32

next Godhra...It is a long drawn battle.
I wonder if Govt is giving long rope

Godhra carnage happened in BJP ruled state .. and people who were burnt alive (women and kids) had no media heads taking up their case.

In such scenario long rope is better option instead of doing equal==equal which will always be misreported.


darshan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2173
Joined: 28 Jan 2008 04:16

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby darshan » 21 Dec 2019 16:28

vishvak wrote:
next Godhra...It is a long drawn battle.
I wonder if Govt is giving long rope

Godhra carnage happened in BJP ruled state .. and people who were burnt alive (women and kids) had no media heads taking up their case.

In such scenario long rope is better option instead of doing equal==equal which will always be misreported.

+1

To their own fault of not recognizing and acknowledging the threat, many times more that Hindus would be killed and won't even make it to stats. While GJ has been BJP ruled state, that doesn't automatically translate into Hindus are protected state. For example, BJP recently made many areas protected where muslim can't walk in and buy properties. However, muslim did already walk in and buy properties in this areas which were known to have been hot and actively being pursued by muslims for decades. Finally many were breached and protecting the area after the breach has no meaning. Just political appeasement where the protection is already toothless. All happened in last two decades. Good for BJP is that Hindus don't vote based on Hindu causes alone as sizable Hindu population is still sleeping.

darshan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2173
Joined: 28 Jan 2008 04:16

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby darshan » 21 Dec 2019 16:36

X post

Relevant to this thread for people throwing outlier examples of Greenpeace community but forgetting to mention what happens to this examples when it turns majority green.


Gerard wrote:Pakistani academic Junaid Hafeez has today been sentenced to death on blasphemy charges.

Junaid Hafeez: Why is Pakistani scholar's blasphemy case receiving scant attention?

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 22787
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby chetak » 21 Dec 2019 16:54

Image

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19579
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Karan M » 21 Dec 2019 16:55

Cain Marko wrote:
Karan M wrote:Of one thing I am sure, the crackdown on the left-nexus in our public institutions is long overdue. If there is a 2nd Trump term, Modi & co should make this their first priority.

What does it have to do with Trumps victory or defeat?


We would have more leeway to do this. See Pompeo's measured response in the recent meeting with Jaishankar about the CBS lady asking the usual "muslims are oppressed" question.

The Democrats seem to be firmly in bed with the NYT, WaPo crowd. Ro Khanna, Jayapal both cited NYT, Atlantic, New Yorker type articles to make their case. Then the tweets from Warren, Bernie, AOC, Omar etc.

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5380
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Karthik S » 21 Dec 2019 16:59

What is most important now is that govt should not buckle under pressure.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19579
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Karan M » 21 Dec 2019 17:01

Karan M wrote:Really? That's literally how the 2 nation theory was pushed for, and led to the Direct Action Day, and the deaths, murders, rapes of countless non Muslims and later Muslims as well. Should we ignore that? Also, if Hindus start saying "Musalmano se Azadi" will that even be acceptable (leaving aside the ethical, moral aspects out of the picture).
Can anyone here for instance, walk around in *any* secular society with a large placard stating " i want freedom from muslims" and not suffer significant consequences or blow-back? If so, the other case should be held as equally offensive.


Katare wrote:What the hell are you talking about, you obviously know little about two nation theory, partition and political Islam and how it works. You can walk around with any sign board including most hateful ones anywhere in a democratic country, its not an issue unless it’s call for violence. In USOfA skin heads and KKK take out rallies with sign board that mKe anyone’s blood boil, but so what?

Its not matter of right, wrong, acceptable or not acceptable. If people feel persecuted ( rightly or wrongly) they have right to protest regardless of however unacceptable it might be to anyone as long as its peaceful and within the law.

Personally to me it’s unacceptable but so what? Protesting against majority domination (perceived or real) is fine and dandy, that’s how democracy works by allowing a pressure relief valve.

Again my request wAs to try and find bigger fishes but you have started an attack Instead of trying to understand


Sorry, I am not going to put up with your aggression in your post above. There was no attack in my post either, just a clear mention about what the Hinduon se Azadi comment represented.

We are living in this country unlike you chaps. Are you seriously this silly to believe that walking around with a sign calling for azaadi from Hindus is not provocative and has nothing to do with the two nation theory, and Direct Action Day?

I don't even know why even articulate folks like you try to sugar coat the reality. How does it help us?

What else does "Hinduon se Azadi" represent but a forceful articulation of the 2 nation theory.

Don't posture about topics *you* likely understand but for whatever reason are making absurd comments about. "Pressure relief valve* it seems. Next some Hindu will seek his *pressure relief valve* by standing in front of a mosque and acting like the above yahoos and we will have a riot on our hands.

Of course, it won't affect your sensitive soul who will be pontificating from abroad while we face a riot on our hands.

And next time you think you can throw your weight, around. Dont.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19579
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Karan M » 21 Dec 2019 17:06

Katare wrote:
Karan M wrote:
This is rubbish.

If political protesters engage in rabid anti-Hindu sloganeering it deserves to be called out and noted for what it is. To claim that doing so is "visceral hatred towards a significant chunk of the population" is wrong. It implies that an entire community is full of bigots and hence its ok for them to do so, and one should ignore it. The worst kind of acceptance possible.

In fact, its the sloganeers who clearly have visceral hatred towards a significant chunk of the population.

"Hinduon se azaadi" is the worst kind of bigotry there is given both its historical antecedents and also what its being used today for, events like the Pulwama attack or Indian Mujahideen's antics.

Simply put neither of you can deny the above is not "really rotten meat".

To most rational folks, the kind of slogans used in the event were really rotten by themselves *and* anti-national, as the nation includes Hindus and to deliberately, provocatively use this kind of sloganeering to ask for a break away is very clear about what the protesters want.

And lets not bring in Syed Hasnain or Abdul Kalam or this person or that person whenever any idiot is discussed. First, they'd likely be as offended at these peoples behavior and know the long or even short term consequences of the sloganeering and rabid behavior on public perception. Second, people like Gen Afsar Karim coined terms like "the running dogs of jihad" for Pakistanis who spoke much the same language as above "Hinduon se Azadi".

Lets not constantly bring these folks in as some kind of 1 man counterweight to the idiocy that the rest do. It doesn't work and all you are doing is dragging everyone to the same table and painting them with the same brush. This virtue signaling achieves nothing. Most people can see right through the local fallacies inherent in your argument - bringing up a good guy to excuse the bad behavior engaged in by others, when both are not even correlated, and second, over time, folks will start attacking the "good guys", and attempt to tear down national icons merely because they are frustrated at one group being trotted out as cover fire for the second.

Accept the fact the behavior engaged in by these jokers was unacceptable and there is a widespread radicalization problem and then at least you have a credible position to propose solutions, as versus denying the reality altogether.


You start your post with calling an argument that you don’t like “This is rubbish” and write nothing but rubbish.

Hinduon se azadi is worst kind of bigotry to you? More than murdering a hindu leader for calling prophet a gay man? Raising pro pakistani slogans on indian soil is less bigoted than this slogan for you? How about gazwa-e-hind? Converting countless innocent young girls in Keral and sending them to Syria to serve as sex slave is less bigoted to you? Afzal tere katil zinfa hai and tukde tukde are not worse than this?


Are you seriously making this post or its some kind of parody intended to be satire? The slogans above represent the same kind of bigotry, and you are trying to pretend there is a difference between the two and virtue signal.


The suggestion was to focus on more substantial materials that will stick for long time to come rather than trying to turn a chotta mota protest into something that it isn’t. Not sure whT is your problem.

Even if it is unacceptable, so what? It’s a-free country and people have right to free speech. Shit that you have written is also a shining example of rotten meat and bigotry, that is fine by me too.


*Your* rotten meat and bigotry and whitewashing crimes won't fly dude. Aggressive language "shit that you have written, rotten meat" etc doesn't make up for the fact that you don't really have an argument. Try this free speech stuff with someone who won't outright laugh at it. For instance, your claim is that making absurd claims on religious grounds is ok?

Try telling somebody else that somehow its ok to incite violence and then committing violent acts is the only issue. Anyone can logically work out there is literally no line between the two and radicalization can and does lead to violence when these slogans are being used in a protest environment and rocks flew soon thereafter, buses were burned and cops were stoned, and folks have committed even worse kind of crimes due to it including recently at Pulwama.

Rest of your post is useless drivel that demolished so many strawmen of your own making! Who the F are u and I to decide what is acceptable and what is not?

You claim majority of rational people would find the slogans unacceptable- have you done a survey of Majority of rational people ? Who determined who is rationL?



The GOI is perfectly capable of deciding what is acceptable and the responses to *your drivel* on this forum itself show you what is acceptable. Neither is your language and behavior acceptable per the standards on this forum.


Talk for yourself, don’t try putting weight of mJority behind your own views and opinions.

They are wrong their slogans are poor, they are radicalized, bigoted and xyz, as long as they are peaceful, within university campus and democratic, it’s fine.

For the ones rioting, burning and throwing stone—-goli maro salon ko


I have never read such genius in my life before and I am thankful you are neither in India and nor associated with GOI in any manner.

Radicalization is no problem. Incitement to violence is no problem.

Moment they pick up a stone, then it becomes a problem, and shoot them all, having ignored the radicalization till then, the incitement till then.

Guess what, done tolerating *your drivel*.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19579
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Karan M » 21 Dec 2019 17:13

Nikhil T wrote:
Karan M wrote:
"Hinduon se azaadi" is the worst kind of bigotry there is given both its historical antecedents


And lets not bring in Syed Hasnain or Abdul Kalam or this person or that person whenever any idiot is discussed. First, they'd likely be as offended at these peoples behavior and know the long or even short term consequences of the sloganeering and rabid behavior on public perception. Second, people like Gen Afsar Karim coined terms like "the running dogs of jihad" for Pakistanis who spoke much the same language as above "Hinduon se Azadi".

Lets not constantly bring these folks in as some kind of 1 man counterweight to the idiocy that the rest do. It doesn't work and all you are doing is dragging everyone to the same table and painting them with the same brush. This virtue signaling achieves nothing. Most people can see right through the local fallacies inherent in your argument - bringing up a good guy to excuse the bad behavior engaged in by others, when both are not even correlated, and second, over time, folks will start attacking the "good guys", and attempt to tear down national icons merely because they are frustrated at one group being trotted out as cover fire for the second.



I couldn’t find a better example of irony. You dismiss Lt Gen Syed Ata Hasnain as a one off example, that I’m using to paint everyone in the same brush. You’re using one slogan to paint the entire lot of protestors with the same brush!

The fact is that there are umpteen images of protestors waving national flags, pictures of Gandhi/Ambedkar, posters of secularism and unity, and demonstrating peacefully. Similarly there are a lot of perfectly patriotic Hindus protesting against CAA and NRC. You just choose to ignore those images because pointing to one off slogans is a convenient mask for your own visceral hatred and biases.


You seem to be choosing to deliberately misunderstand something awfully straightforward. I was referring to your argument in bringing Gen Hasnain into a discussion which doesn't involve him at all, as it sure comes across as trying to ignore the tinderbox of religious bigotry by bringing an accomplished individual as a one man representative of his faith everytime his co-religionists do something insane. Its unfair to him to be propped up in such an manner as versus standing ahead on the basis of his accomplishments.

Next, I am not using *one slogan* - I am pointing to the fact there was significant violence in West Bengal, UP, Delhi by radicalized members of the community *and* those who should have been educated and better, weren't, as they were often caught inadvertently making the same slogans and claims. The fact that you seek to conflate this with the above examples you cite above is a perfect example of trying to ignore the fact that there was religious radicalism involved in the protests and evidence exists regarding that. One (flag waving by non violent protestors, Hindus, Muslims etc) does not excuse the other.

As regards your personal attack above: "You just choose to ignore those images because pointing to one off slogans is a convenient mask for your own visceral hatred and biases." you just crossed the line with your tendency to sit on some self appointed high horse and pretend you are some moral individual whereas everyone else is wallowing in turpitude. This is not the first time either, despite polite requests to you to cease and desist.

Accept the fact the behavior engaged in by these jokers was unacceptable and there is a widespread radicalization problem and then at least you have a credible position to propose solutions, as versus denying the reality altogether.

Nobody is denying radicalization problem in Muslims. It must be dealt with, but surely not by threatening all Muslims citizenship. Let’s also admit there’s a bigotry problem amongst a section of Hindus as well. Only earlier this week there was a video of a Karnataka school students enacting the demolition of Babri masjid for their annual day. What is that if not bigotry? Similarly, much of the new found distaste for violent protests is just that. I’ve already provided examples of Hindu protestors (Patidars, Jaats) who have earlier engaged in even more violent protests. This holier than thou and name calling only exposes your selective memory.


Again, you are engaging in outright misrepresentation.

"surely not by threatening all Muslims citizenship." - this has neither been done by GOI nor asked for by anyone else on this forum.

The examples you quote are also despicable but unrelated to the current incident.
Furthermore, I engaged in no name calling in my prior post, but you have done so in your latest.

As regards Hindus who have engaged in violent protests, may I refresh your memory and point out police firing occurred and the riots were controlled.

You have received a ban to cool off and return to your prior productive posting.

Frankly, the above was not your 1st distasteful attack on moderators and admins, and grounds for even a permanent ban. Ramana already mentioned the same earlier, and yet you persist with a 2nd attack.

I am not even sure whether you are in India and understand how ugly the scene is with cops nearly being lynched while you guys focus on "peaceful protestors". As harsh as it may sound to you, the general public is not looking at things that way and things may worsen.

The only thing I can perhaps think of why you are constantly bringing in completely unrelated issues and trying to downplay the severity of the problem is that perhaps you are unaware of the scale of the violence and problems thereof.

There are now visuals all over the place of cops being literally stoned in a targeted fashion as they cower from Islamist mobs, many were wounded and were bleeding. In another case, a running cop was literally lynched by a similar mob, and there are unconfirmed reports he is in a coma (I hope not). In Delhi, religious mobs attacked cops and traffic, and ignored the presence of even school buses. In West Bengal, muslim mobs went around attacking trains, and passengers. Train drivers were injured. They also burnt down station/s and trains.

In Meerut, a police station was burnt down, people died in rioting. In Mangalore, cops opened fire on Muslim mobs.

Now do you realize the scale of the issue and why I said what I did? I can only surmise you are completely unaware of the gravity and scale of the issue despite being an otherwise reasoned poster. Its easy to name call us and accuse us of bigotry, being anti-Muslim etc. Have you gone back and checked the number of times that I have interceded in this thread & asked people to tone it down? How many times other mods have stepped in likewise.

The fact of the matter is people are *angry* and afraid. The combination of the two is a tinderbox. If these mob attacks on cops, and Hindu groups continue, there will be a violent counter-reaction.

In this milieu, to excuse the obvious and blatant bigotry being displayed by clueless or deliberately malafide elements like the two ladies who were propped us as "sheroes" and the LW's agenda peddling, is to ignore the above. If anything, every effort should be made to call them out and stop it.

Some jokers walking around saying "hey man, cool protest" like a lot of the CAB guys, or the well meaning confused sorts cannot cover up for the massive violence above and which is at the verge of exploding.

If that happens, the GOI will be forced to take harsh measures - and it won't go well for anyone of us. Not sure whether you will be affected, but we sure will and hence our concern.

sudarshan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2350
Joined: 09 Aug 2008 08:56

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby sudarshan » 21 Dec 2019 17:35

darshan wrote:Clear indication of western BIF EJs


Anti-CAA rioters distort Hindu Om symbol to look like Nazi symbol
https://www.opindia.com/2019/12/anti-ca ... zi-symbol/

The left-sponsored protests against the Citizenship (Amendment) Act, 2019 continue to rage in various parts of the country. While the anti-CAA lobby has been resorting to severe violence, stone pelting, vandalism and arson to voice their dissent, a poster has emerged from a similar protest in Bengaluru which not only goes on to hurt Hindu sentiments but also displays the protestors bigoted and obscurantist mindset by distoring the Hindu Om symbol.

In a picture shared by a Twitter user, a protestor in Bengaluru is seen holding a placard with a distorted image of a Hindu Om symbol (ॐ) to look like the Nazi swastika symbol. The poster also has a text message which reads: ‘F**k Hindutva’.


Anybody told these geniuses that the Swastika itself is a Hindu symbol, which was distorted by the west? It's very clear where the inspiration is coming from (hint: not from within India).

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14147
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby pankajs » 21 Dec 2019 17:38

Embedded video ...

https://twitter.com/swati_gs/status/1208244364364763136
Swati Goel Sharma @swati_gs

A faculty at IIT Kanpur has submitted this video and a complaint to director, alleging anti-India & communal statements made at a recent event held in 'solidarity with Jamia' & that event held without permission.

"When All Idols Will Be Removed...
Only Allah’s Name Will Remain"
https://twitter.com/swati_gs/status/1208299127076818944
Swati Goel Sharma @swati_gs

That it is a poem by Faiz is mentioned in copy. I know it. I have merely reported about a complaint letter that has sparked a row in the campus.

Darkha Butt bibi got constipated reading these tweets. In-fact, it has triggered a lot of sickular and peaceful people on twitter. I will update once I locate that tweet.
Last edited by pankajs on 21 Dec 2019 17:46, edited 1 time in total.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19579
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Karan M » 21 Dec 2019 17:45

Nikhil T wrote:
Karan M wrote:Of one thing I am sure, the crackdown on the left-nexus in our public institutions is long overdue. If there is a 2nd Trump term, Modi & co should make this their first priority.


This is gold. Our wonderful “deradicalization” plans must wait for Trump to win a second term. We must wait for the gora saab and memsaabs blessing and then we’ll open internment camps everywhere for our own countrymen. Sounds familiar?


My goodness. The manner in which you misinterpret everyone else's posts, opinions has no equal. Did I mention internment camps? No - I merely mentioned Trump because of the fact that the current left cabal in our institutions sending students into the firing line, has significant support from his political opponents. If India needs to deradicalize its universities, it would likely find it easier to do so under a Trump admin which seems to follow a Jacksonian principle of non interference per some analysts.


Return to “Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: g.sarkar and 63 guests