2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

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pankajs
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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby pankajs » 30 Jul 2019 23:42

This is called balitics.

https://twitter.com/AIMPLB_Official/sta ... 0737205248
All India Muslim Personal Law Board @AIMPLB_Official
"We strongly condemn @INCIndia, @jantadal @Mayawati's BSP, AIDMK, @trspartyonline, @YSRCParty parties. They supported the @BJP4Indias political agenda and walked out at the voting time in Rajya Sabha. They all have shown their true colors". Moulana Wali Rahmani:


Reactions coming think and fast.
https://twitter.com/khanumarfa/status/1 ... 6207192064
Arfa Khanum Sherwani @khanumarfa
Let there be no doubt #TripleTalaqBill is an extension of Modi govt’s anti-Muslim politics.
It is not only against Muslim men but against Muslim women as well.
It satisfies only one agenda of this govt-
Demonise Muslim men,Patronise Muslims women.
And appease the Hindu vote bank.
Last edited by pankajs on 30 Jul 2019 23:51, edited 1 time in total.

vijayk
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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby vijayk » 30 Jul 2019 23:51

Time to ban Halala and multiple wives too

Marriage by hiding faith is criminal

Interfaith marriage should preserve woman's right to faith and kids can decide

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby rajsunder » 31 Jul 2019 00:00

One question to learned maulanas, would this 3T criminalization law apply if the man were to say 3T over a period of say one month and not in a single breath?

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby pankajs » 31 Jul 2019 00:15

No ... Triple talak per say is not banned just Instant triple talak.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby V_Raman » 31 Jul 2019 02:09

This is similar to Balakot in what it has achieved. Muslim personal law can be debated and modified by govt of the day similar to Hindu personal law. That is the big point here and that is why the Muslim community resisted this so vigorously even though they knew that the law in itself is the right thing to do.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Skanda » 31 Jul 2019 03:28

V_Raman wrote:This is similar to Balakot in what it has achieved. Muslim personal law can be debated and modified by govt of the day similar to Hindu personal law. That is the big point here and that is why the Muslim community resisted this so vigorously even though they knew that the law in itself is the right thing to do.


Wonder what prevented them from supporting 3T bill. Doing that they could have removed the victory that Modi govt now proclaims. I think they seriously under-estimated Modi's drive in getting the 3T bill passed. Perhaps they were convinced that RS numbers were stacked against Modi and hence whats the hurry.

This is also the first episode where the opposition in RS is now broken. This will only embolden Modi further. I hope he can use the same drive as he had on 3T to get better things done as well.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby ramana » 31 Jul 2019 03:42

Skanda, Where are you coming from. At first glance you look like unhappy 3T got banned!

And Modi is passing legislation.
What did you think 303 seats mean?
Continue the secular stuff from Congress?

Have you considered this is part of gender equity?

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby SwamyG » 31 Jul 2019 04:31

I like the instant 3T becoming illegal. As discussed the 3T still remains. A modern life requires a dignified divorce process that is fair to both genders.

I3T was anything but fair to women. It was inhuman. Getting divorced with an email, phone, telegram, text messages etc are beyond objectification of women. This is a step in the right direction for Muslim women.

From a civilization perspective, it is a good sign that government sends a message to Muslims that they are equal citizens of the country - which means there are pluses and minuses.

We are all bound by written and unwritten contracts with state and society. Muslims cannot enjoy above par treatment.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby SwamyG » 31 Jul 2019 04:42

Karthik S wrote:You are correct in a way about them being well entrenched, If you are from or living in TN, you'd know TN is getting dangerous, with a dangerous mix of EJs, Jihadis and commies with the support of DMK gullible yindoos are buying into whatever propaganda these guys are peddling. There are many people and orgs that are putting up a fight, but are far too weak compared to the other side.

I had said this many moons ago, after MuKa and JJ pass away, there will be dark times. Those two commanded goons that kept EJ and J down under the carpet. Now it is free for all. Everyone will try to get their share of the pie.

The only way TN will survive is if the Hindus awaken, and oppose BIFs.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby KJo » 31 Jul 2019 04:42

One point I am unclear on.

Let's say a Muslim woman claims that her husband said 3T on her when in reality he did not. It's her word against his and she calls the cops on him.
Would the muslim man be hauled off to jail and no chance of bail? If so, this will turn out like the 498B dowry law which was misused by many unscrupulous women for their selfish purposes (like to run off with a boyfriend).

Also, the law says a wife of a jailed man will get maintenance. What is Owaisi made about then?


Image

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby SwamyG » 31 Jul 2019 04:48

Kjo,
No he can get a bail. The Judge will hear them both. It is not like the mention of the words itself would attract punishment. It is the act of that particular form of divorce.
If the man, says to the Judge he really does not want to give a divorce, then nothing much to do. Also why we have lawyers and Court system.

A few innocent will be punished, sad but inevitable considering how evil we humans can get. Laws can address the general issue, and shape the societies. It is very tough to address all variations. Courts will take care of the implementations.
Last edited by SwamyG on 31 Jul 2019 04:55, edited 1 time in total.

ramana
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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby ramana » 31 Jul 2019 04:51

Kjo you always take the side of the bad people!!!

Its the Muslim women who have been the victims since 119 in Hindustan. Not the men
And now suddenly they are the victim in your view!!!

besh as rvaidya says.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby rajsunder » 31 Jul 2019 06:56

KJo wrote:One point I am unclear on.

Let's say a Muslim woman claims that her husband said 3T on her when in reality he did not. It's her word against his and she calls the cops on him.
Would the muslim man be hauled off to jail and no chance of bail? If so, this will turn out like the 498B dowry law which was misused by many unscrupulous women for their selfish purposes (like to run off with a boyfriend).

Also, the law says a wife of a jailed man will get maintenance. What is Owaisi made about then?


Image

The one good thing that I see from this is total removal of Rajiv gandhi's anti shah bano law.
Magestrate can now decide how much alimony the husband will pay to his wife.
Now the next step should be to remove polygamy from the Muslim personal law

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Karthik S » 31 Jul 2019 07:11

vijayk wrote:Time to ban Halala and multiple wives too

Marriage by hiding faith is criminal

Interfaith marriage should preserve woman's right to faith and kids can decide


We can go ahead one more step and say UCC.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Karthik S » 31 Jul 2019 07:13

BTW, 3T in isolation means nothing for me in person, it may fix intra faith unfair laws, nothing to gain from that, I am hoping it opens the door to inter faith unfair laws right from constitution.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Katare » 31 Jul 2019 12:34

Karthik, What are the “inter faith unfair laws” you are referring to?

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby pankajs » 31 Jul 2019 13:14

Balatics ...

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 457398.cms
Rajya Sabha Talaq battle: Ideological dilemma for Congress as 'secular' bloc wilts
NEW DELHI: The signs of the opposition wilting were evident last week when the contentious bill to amend the RTI Act was passed in Rajya Sabha where the anti-BJP camp held the upper hand for last five years.

But the passage of triple talaq legislation takes the issue beyond technicality of numerical superiority into the realm of ideological challenge to the "secular" bloc in the times of strengthening saffron-hold.

There are signs that the massive BJP victory in 2019 polls has shifted the ground from under the "secular", interchangeable with anti-BJP, politics. It was a collection of regional parties - JD(U), TRS, RJD, TDP, NCP, SP and BSP - which joined hands with Congress and the Left to keep the bill at bay for over two years.

As BJP under Narendra Modi marched from strength to strength between 2014-19, there were suggestions in Congress that the party relent on issues that the saffron camp has managed to stigmatise with its "appeasement" slur. It was during this phase that Congress chief Rahul Gandhi came up with the "temple run" idea. The Supreme Court verdict outlawing instant divorce (triple talaq) was said to have given a safe exit route to reset the party compass. But Congress stuck to its guns - pointing to the "criminalisation" clause in the bill despite the government making crucial concessions - as much because of the pressure from a strong section within as owing to the persuasion of these regional outfits.

As it transpired on Tuesday, most of these regional parties did not mind siding with the government, ironically by walking out of the voting and dressing up their support as protest.

If none of them bothered with more than a fig leaf, the reason is that they are reconciled to the post-2019 political reality and are willing to make concessions. While SP and BSP may be keen to be on the right side of the Centre in view of enforcement agencies, TRS and JD(U) rule states with minority presence and take pride in their "secular" hue.

This raises serious fear about Congress being left stranded, with Trinamool for company, its dilemma compounded by the fact that it cannot appear to be siding with BJP on "divisive" issues.

The Congress predicament was best captured with a senior leader saying, "Political pragmatism may demand that we drop the ante on issues like lynching, minority interests, human rights and liberal values like RTI. But then what would be difference between Congress and BJP." However, it is on these very issues that regional fellow travellers broke from Congress on more than one occasion this week. For Congress, the signs are downright ominous.

Fighting as it is an existential battle, the principal opposition is up against a relentless Hindutva machine under which polarisation does not flag. If Congress sticks to its traditionally reflexive ideological politics, it ends up exacerbating the process of polarisation. But if it softens, it loses its salience.

I hope that the "academics and intellectuals" continue to push CON to stick to its reflexive ideological politics and help elect Modi with a bigger majority in the next LS election.

It is such "academics and intellectuals" who are creating the polarisation with their selective history, selective policy prescription and selective outrage thus forcing more "middle of the road" voters to opt for BJP. BJP cannot thank these ideological warriors enough!

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Karan M » 31 Jul 2019 14:45

This 3T bill is a big blow to the pysche of the macho mards of the M community and the mullah brigade.

Expect violence against H's to increase.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Karthik S » 31 Jul 2019 14:49

Katare wrote:Karthik, What are the “inter faith unfair laws” you are referring to?


Discriminatory articles 25 to 30 sir. The ones that specifically pro minority and against majority at the same time.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Karthik S » 31 Jul 2019 14:51

Karan M wrote:This 3T bill is a big blow to the pysche of the macho mards of the M community and the mullah brigade.

Expect violence against H's to increase.


:lol: I doubt if it's implementable, implementing sabarimala verdict against peaceful devotees itself was almost impossible to KL police. As I said before, I don't think a cop will dare enter Hyderabad old city, for instance, to arrest someone who has given instant 3T.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Karan M » 31 Jul 2019 15:06

Its not about whether its implementable or not, in the short term. Using emojis suggests you haven't thought through what I stated and are reacting off the spur. Fact is the average M is aware of the reach of the armed IPS, and hence is (despite bravura bluster) upset cops stand in the way. They know they can be picked up anytime, not just when they are surrounded by huge numbers of fellow radicals.

Fact that such a bill was passed is enough. Spend some time amongst the more visceral types who act as influencers for the rest and you'll see how much they resent the state and the thought they are being "ruled" by non M's.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby ArjunPandit » 31 Jul 2019 15:42

Karan M wrote:Its not about whether its implementable or not, in the short term. Using emojis suggests you haven't thought through what I stated and are reacting off the spur. Fact is the average M is aware of the reach of the armed IPS, and hence is (despite bravura bluster) upset cops stand in the way. They know they can be picked up anytime, not just when they are surrounded by huge numbers of fellow radicals.

Fact that such a bill was passed is enough. Spend some time amongst the more visceral types who act as influencers for the rest and you'll see how much they resent the state and the thought they are being "ruled" by non M's.

+1, now the spin being given is that it makes it safer for H girls to marry them and that fear has been removed. Also, some are openly saying on twitter that shariah will continue till qayamat..

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Karthik S » 31 Jul 2019 15:46

Karan M wrote:Its not about whether its implementable or not, in the short term. Using emojis suggests you haven't thought through what I stated and are reacting off the spur. Fact is the average M is aware of the reach of the armed IPS, and hence is (despite bravura bluster) upset cops stand in the way. They know they can be picked up anytime, not just when they are surrounded by huge numbers of fellow radicals.

Fact that such a bill was passed is enough. Spend some time amongst the more visceral types who act as influencers for the rest and you'll see how much they resent the state and the thought they are being "ruled" by non M's.


Sir, that emoji is for the system we have not for your point, I lived for 20 years in the city I mentioned above in my previous post. I know how their minds work. And I don't know how you figured that they are resenting being 'ruled' by non M's. To them, they can get away virtually from anything, and I mean literally anything. To them, we are lower race who were ruled by them and will be ruled by them, our properties and women folk are still maal e ghanimat. If you speak to random abdul on the road and ask him if this new law will deter him in anyway, he'll give the same emotion as my emoji. BTW, not just that city, aren't we seeing stores of how cops are chased away from ghettos across India? and then we have TN wherein they don't even have such high population, they virtually took over entire section of highway few years back, cops were assaulted, including women cops. if L&O has to improve, first thing is need to improve police force in terms of equipment and weed out any political stooges, who are actually helping perpetrators rather than victims (we know which communities each belong to). Saw in twitter recent news of cops asking a yindu man who marred M woman to convert.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby vijayk » 31 Jul 2019 16:41

Looks like a version of Communal Violence Bill was passed by Rajasthan. Hope Governor does not sign it.

Ashok Gehlot
@ashokgehlot51
Bill introduced in #RajasthanAssembly today to make #MobLynching a cognizable, non bailable and non compoundable offence with rigorous imprisonment for life and fine of upto Rs 5 lakh. There is a provision to appoint a Nodal Officer to prevent lynchings in the State.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby vijayk » 31 Jul 2019 16:44

https://www.dailyo.in/politics/triple-t ... 31292.html

Muslims deserve their rights: Pushing a Uniform Civil Code will not unite India. It will only create more tension
If the government is seriously concerned about women impacted by polygamy, it should look at the high statistics of Hindu men doing the same. Instead, it is selectively targeting Muslims.


All persons are equally entitled to freedom of conscience and the right freely to profess, practice and propagate religion... Nothing in this article shall affect the operation of any existing law or prevent the State from making any law regulating or restricting any economic, financial, political or other secular activity which may be associated with religious practice…”

- Article 25, Indian Constitution.

“Subject to public order, morality and health, every religious denomination or any section thereof shall have the right (a) to establish and maintain institutions for religious and charitable purposes; (b) to manage its own affairs in matters of religion.”

- Article 26, Indian Constitution.


https://www.dailyo.in/politics/triple-t ... 31277.html
Not saffron but secular: The banning of instant triple talaq is a crucial first step towards Uniform Civil Code
Just like regressive divorce practices, ruled by religious notions, can't be allowed, neither should we accept the lack of a secular Uniform Civil Code, which 'minority appeasers' denied India thus far.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby darshan » 31 Jul 2019 17:26

BJP To Hold Compulsory Workshop Over The Weekend For Party Lawmakers; Aims To Enhance MPs Behaviour, Public Conduct
https://swarajyamag.com/insta/bjp-to-ho ... ic-conduct
The two-day orientation programme for the young and newly elected BJP MPs will be held on 3 August and 4 August . The move is aimed at enhancing parliamentary behaviour and public conduct among them.

The workshop named, “Abhyas Varga,” is already in effect in many states including Himachal Pradesh to impart basic ethos among the representatives. According to a senior BJP leader, all MPs have to attend the workshop.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Vidur » 31 Jul 2019 18:04

The only time in my career when I felt persecuted by the system was after I made a remark in 2014. In a social gathering I commented that Modi's slogan of 'Ek haath me Quoran ek haath mein laptop' will only lead to very educated terrorists. It was borne out of my experience as at District, Sate and Central Govts. And a careful study of history and international experience. I was branded a bigot, anti-minorities, unfit for civil service and reprimanded. Incidently my remark was made in a room where senior civil servants were openly discussing auctioning tenders and other corrupt practices.

Over the last 5 years I made efforts to learn more about Islam, its past and prognosis for the future. Study, interactions with colleagues in security agencies, intelligence informed my view. My conclusion is that secular education cannot deradicalise them. There are many reasons for this but an important one is that we have not challenged the fundamental beliefs of Islam since Independence. We have legitimized these beliefs and not allowed the Indian civilisational ethos act as a counter. We have allowed radicalisation of Madarsas and their teachings. We have not surfaced the atrocities committed in name of Islam in history and currently. These mistakes were committed by previous governments.

But the current dispensation is making the same mistake. I am not referring to TTT but to the belief that using subsidies in 'education', increasing intake in civil services and Sab Ka Vishwas will deradicalise muslims. There is a strong commitment to this policy and it is an important KRA of the government but I believe it will not work.

Pertinent to note that around 30,000-40,000 educated westerners went to fight with ISIS and committed atrocities on Yazidis. 5,000 western women muslims went to marry them and start families for jihad. They booked their tickets using laptops and apps, transferred money electronically and spoke excellent English. The Sri Lankan terrorists were sons of very wealthy families.

This is an important issue and I am would like to discuss it further.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Vidur » 31 Jul 2019 18:29

Karthik S wrote:
Karan M wrote:Its not about whether its implementable or not, in the short term. Using emojis suggests you haven't thought through what I stated and are reacting off the spur. Fact is the average M is aware of the reach of the armed IPS, and hence is (despite bravura bluster) upset cops stand in the way. They know they can be picked up anytime, not just when they are surrounded by huge numbers of fellow radicals.

Fact that such a bill was passed is enough. Spend some time amongst the more visceral types who act as influencers for the rest and you'll see how much they resent the state and the thought they are being "ruled" by non M's.


BTW, not just that city, aren't we seeing stores of how cops are chased away from ghettos across India? and then we have TN wherein they don't even have such high population, they virtually took over entire section of highway few years back, cops were assaulted, including women cops. if L&O has to improve, first thing is need to improve police force in terms of equipment and weed out any political stooges, who are actually helping perpetrators rather than victims (we know which communities each belong to). Saw in twitter recent news of cops asking a yindu man who marred M woman to convert.


Your assessment of mindset is correct. You are also correct that police are reluctant to enforce law and order with muslims. System is biased. It is often easier to brush the issue under the carpet or ask the other community to adjust.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby vijayk » 31 Jul 2019 18:31

Vidur wrote:The only time in my career when I felt persecuted by the system was after I made a remark in 2014. In a social gathering I commented that Modi's slogan of 'Ek haath me Quoran ek haath mein laptop' will only lead to very educated terrorists. It was borne out of my experience as at District, Sate and Central Govts. And a careful study of history and international experience. I was branded a bigot, anti-minorities, unfit for civil service and reprimanded. Incidently my remark was made in a room where senior civil servants were openly discussing auctioning tenders and other corrupt practices.

Over the last 5 years I made efforts to learn more about Islam, its past and prognosis for the future. Study, interactions with colleagues in security agencies, intelligence informed my view. My conclusion is that secular education cannot deradicalise them. There are many reasons for this but an important one is that we have not challenged the fundamental beliefs of Islam since Independence. We have legitimized these beliefs and not allowed the Indian civilisational ethos act as a counter. We have allowed radicalisation of Madarsas and their teachings. We have not surfaced the atrocities committed in name of Islam in history and currently. These mistakes were committed by previous governments.

But the current dispensation is making the same mistake. I am not referring to TTT but to the belief that using subsidies in 'education', increasing intake in civil services and Sab Ka Vishwas will deradicalise muslims. There is a strong commitment to this policy and it is an important KRA of the government but I believe it will not work.

Pertinent to note that around 30,000-40,000 educated westerners went to fight with ISIS and committed atrocities on Yazidis. 5,000 western women muslims went to marry them and start families for jihad. They booked their tickets using laptops and apps, transferred money electronically and spoke excellent English. The Sri Lankan terrorists were sons of very wealthy families.

This is an important issue and I am would like to discuss it further.


True.

I was also at a gathering and someone criticizing Modi/RSS based on Leila (Netgflix show). I heard about it and read some reviews.

I asked him him " A more realistic scenario in US and Europe. 2067. Birthrates of non-Muslims fall below replacement. Islam takes over. Shariat is being practiced. ISIS rules the world. They raid non Mulim areas to take women and slaves. They sell women and exchange them. Women cheer while their husbands bag the prettiest slave"

Then I said "Wait ... it already happened in Syria in 2014.

Will Netflix explore this? May be time for story tellers on RW to depict this in a show

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby darshan » 31 Jul 2019 18:54

+1 for Vidur.
I have yet to run into an educated muslim who I didn't walk out thinking is worse than the uneducated one. Every gathering you will spot these educated ones peddling something vicious or planning how glorious the future would be once the required number is reached. Education will only make them more sophisticated muslims. More sophisticated ticking jihadi bomb may not work out. End of the day the fact doesn't change that that's a ticking bomb. They play long term game so even one generation of pretending to be civil is right up their alley. Only future will tell.

Chinese muslim control plans have been approved by all muslim countries to be used by non muslim countries.

Most of the Hindu folks don't see consolidated stats and trends to realize the long term plans.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby vijayk » 31 Jul 2019 18:58

darshan wrote:+1 for Vidur.


Most of the Hindu folks don't see consolidated stats and trends to realize the long term plans.


No one can see. you are called a bigot if you say this

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby KJo » 31 Jul 2019 19:02

ramana wrote:Kjo you always take the side of the bad people!!!

Its the Muslim women who have been the victims since 119 in Hindustan. Not the men
And now suddenly they are the victim in your view!!!

besh as rvaidya says.



ramana, no no, I just want to make sure that this law is fool proof and cannot be exploited by anyone.

I am 1008% supporter of this law. I hope they bring in more laws agains halala, multiple marriage etc.

There have been past instances (pre-Modi) of Govts rushing to fix a problem but end up introducing many other problems because the job of law formulation was not thorough. I have confidence in Modi Sarkar in what they do, but the explanation of the image that I saw seemed to say that it was non bailable.

I didn't say "Muslim men are victims", I said that if a Muslim man is truly innocent, he must not be punished. Many innocent Hindu men got punished by the old dowry law including few I personally know.
No law can be perfect ( except Allah's laws ;-) ) but I hope this is as close as it can get.


Karan M wrote:This 3T bill is a big blow to the pysche of the macho mards of the M community and the mullah brigade.

Expect violence against H's to increase.


Yes, now they know that Modi Sarkar is not afraid of making such laws and will push it through. They know more are coming. In my high school WA group, all the M's were against this law including a burqa clad female ex-classmate who used to be quite the tomboy (but tamed by Islam). She spouted all the usual reasons that Owaisi gives (who will pay maintenance, hain??). I would like to see some movement on RJB, UCC and bold moves on J&K. We have the electoral backing now.
Last edited by KJo on 31 Jul 2019 19:13, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby pankajs » 31 Jul 2019 19:10

It seems that no one bar a few, not even Modi or AS, realize the nature of the issue at hand. It is after all Modi who proposed "Computer in one hand and Koran in the other". This is AFTER Godhra, 3 terms as CM of Gujarat and his prior travels across India and Kashmir as RSS karyakarta. This MUST be his deeply studies position and deeply held belief.

Now, if Modi is unaware of the issue he certainly will do nothing to correct his solution. So one should not have any expectation from him on that count. The ONLY way is for someone to fight Modi politically, come to power and implement their own policy prescription.

Karthik S
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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Karthik S » 31 Jul 2019 19:51

Why Go To SC Or NCM? If Modi Govt Wants, It Can Easily Give Minority Status To Hindus In 8 States

There is simply no need to approach the Supreme Court or the National Minority Commission for Hindus in eight states to get minority status. Modi government can do it easily via an executive order.


https://swarajyamag.com/politics/why-go ... n-8-states

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Karthik S » 31 Jul 2019 19:59

darshan wrote:+1 for Vidur.
I have yet to run into an educated muslim who I didn't walk out thinking is worse than the uneducated one. Every gathering you will spot these educated ones peddling something vicious or planning how glorious the future would be once the required number is reached. Education will only make them more sophisticated muslims. More sophisticated ticking jihadi bomb may not work out. End of the day the fact doesn't change that that's a ticking bomb. They play long term game so even one generation of pretending to be civil is right up their alley. Only future will tell.

Chinese muslim control plans have been approved by all muslim countries to be used by non muslim countries.

Most of the Hindu folks don't see consolidated stats and trends to realize the long term plans.


Point is, if us common folks have this much knowledge about them, I wonder MAD, one having been a spy in pak for 7 years, another guy who traveled across India and has good knowledge of history and religions (it was from NM I came to know about dar ul harb etc and wasn't he the one who cut down anzari guy with sweet knife talking about HA's association with khilafat movement etc?) still peddle ek hath computer.... sabka vishwas etc.

Either that's a smoke screen to cover up possible overhauls as Ramana sir says or they have really became delusional and forgot their own life experiences and wisdom.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Karan M » 31 Jul 2019 21:23

You seem to be missing the point. You have merely restated what I just wrote. In short, you are reiterating bigotry and a supremacist complex is common. In which case, what do you think happens to such a person when a law taking away their "right" to be superior is passed? A call to violence will have more resonance, and hence chances of violence will be more common. Secondly, the cops dance to whomsoever is in power. If hitherto, transfers/suspensions/even criminal cases were foisted on cops who took a tough stand against M's were common, what do you think would be the result? That too is changing. Take a look at all the videos etc by radical or even common M's. They all state the same thing "remove the cops and then we will see". The colonial era police structure is meant to maintain order, not deliver justice. Even so, the radical M's are afraid to a degree of the cops, as they know what the results are when cops go on a rampage or have a free hand. Hence the caution. Times are a changing (for the better) and we will see far more pushback in the beginning, many more reports of M on H violence (flagged by BJP handles themselves) while action picks up, and at the same time, Modi et al keep taking a very neutral/"sabka vishwas" stand in terms of speeches. That's how this will be played.


Karthik S wrote:
Karan M wrote:Its not about whether its implementable or not, in the short term. Using emojis suggests you haven't thought through what I stated and are reacting off the spur. Fact is the average M is aware of the reach of the armed IPS, and hence is (despite bravura bluster) upset cops stand in the way. They know they can be picked up anytime, not just when they are surrounded by huge numbers of fellow radicals.

Fact that such a bill was passed is enough. Spend some time amongst the more visceral types who act as influencers for the rest and you'll see how much they resent the state and the thought they are being "ruled" by non M's.


Sir, that emoji is for the system we have not for your point, I lived for 20 years in the city I mentioned above in my previous post. I know how their minds work. And I don't know how you figured that they are resenting being 'ruled' by non M's. To them, they can get away virtually from anything, and I mean literally anything. To them, we are lower race who were ruled by them and will be ruled by them, our properties and women folk are still maal e ghanimat. If you speak to random abdul on the road and ask him if this new law will deter him in anyway, he'll give the same emotion as my emoji. BTW, not just that city, aren't we seeing stores of how cops are chased away from ghettos across India? and then we have TN wherein they don't even have such high population, they virtually took over entire section of highway few years back, cops were assaulted, including women cops. if L&O has to improve, first thing is need to improve police force in terms of equipment and weed out any political stooges, who are actually helping perpetrators rather than victims (we know which communities each belong to). Saw in twitter recent news of cops asking a yindu man who marred M woman to convert.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Suraj » 31 Jul 2019 21:44

Karthik S wrote:Either that's a smoke screen to cover up possible overhauls as Ramana sir says or they have really became delusional and forgot their own life experiences and wisdom.

Empirically, NM has demonstrated quite a few episodes of the former, and so far none of the latter.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Katare » 31 Jul 2019 22:46

Karthik S wrote:
Katare wrote:Karthik, What are the “inter faith unfair laws” you are referring to?


Discriminatory articles 25 to 30 sir. The ones that specifically pro minority and against majority at the same time.


What is against the majority in those classes? Looks very clear and democratic to me?

Constitutional democracy by definition works on protection for minorities and government by majority. Without those explicit safeguards why would minorities of any kind signup for perpetual rule of majority.

Rules applies to all kind of minorities including religious, linguistic and cultural to name a few.

Would love to see you expand on the issue a bit.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Katare » 31 Jul 2019 22:49

Article 25 {Freedom of conscience and free profession, practice and propagation of religion}

Subject to public order, morality and health and to the other provisions of this Part, all persons are equally entitled to freedom of conscience and the right freely to profess, practice and propagate religion.
Nothing in this article shall affect the operation of any existing law or prevent the State from making any law -
regulating or restricting any economic, financial, political or other secular activity which may be associated with religious practice;
providing for social welfare and reform or the throwing open of Hindu religious institutions of a public character to all classes and sections of Hindus.
[Explanation I: The wearing and carrying of kirpans shall be deemed to be included in the profession of the Sikh religion.]

[Explanation II: In sub-Clause (b) of clause (2), the reference to Hindus shall be construed as including a reference to persons professing the Sikh, Jaina or Buddhist religion, and the reference to Hindu religious institutions shall be construed accordingly.


Article 26 {Freedom to manage religious affairs}

Subject to public order, morality and health, every religious denomination or any section thereof shall have the right -

to establish and maintain institutions for religious and charitable purposes;
to manage its own affairs in matters of religion;
to own and acquire movable and immovable property; and
to administer such property in accordance with law.


Article 27 {Freedom as to payment of taxes for promotion of any particular religion}

No person shall be compelled to pay any taxes, the proceeds of which are specifically appropriated in payment of expenses for the promotion or maintenance of any particular religion or religious denomination.


Article 28 {Freedom as to attendance at religious instruction or religious worship in certain educational institutions}

No religious instruction shall be provided in any educational institution wholly maintained out of State funds.
Nothing in clause (1) shall apply to an educational institution which is administered by the State but has been established under any endowment or trust which requires that religious instruction shall be imparted in such institution.
No person attending any educational institution recognised by the State or receiving aid out of State funds shall be required to take part in any religious instruction that may be imparted in such institution or to attend any religious worship that may be conducted in such institution or in any premises attached thereto unless such person or, if such person is minor, his guardian has given his consent thereto.


Article 29 {Protection of interests of minorities}

Any section of the citizens residing in the territory of India or any part thereof having a distinct language, script or culture of its own shall have the right to conserve the same.
No citizen shall be denied admission into any educational institution maintained by the State or receiving aid out of State funds on grounds only of religion, race, caste, language or any of them.


Article 30 {Right of minorities to establish and administer educational institutions}

All minorities, whether based on religion or language, shall have the right to establish and administer educational institutions of their choice.
1A. In making any law providing for the compulsory acquisition of any property of an educational institution established and administered by a minority, referred to in clause (1), the State shall ensure that the amount fixed by or determined under such law for the acquisition of such property is such as would not restrict or abrogate the right guaranteed under that clause.
2. The State shall not, in granting aid to educational institutions, discriminate against any educational institution on the ground that it is under the management of a minority, whether based on religion or language.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Prasad » 31 Jul 2019 22:59

You need to understand how these are seen. All these are seen as a means to safeguard minorities only. Hindus do not get the benefit out of all these. Why else do you see government running temples, taking over hindu run schools, passing RTE like bills with exemption to minority run institutions. When people went to court to include them in RTE, courts expressly said it will not apply, because article xyz.


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