2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

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ArjunPandit
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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby ArjunPandit » 13 Sep 2019 15:35

ramana wrote:
darshan wrote:To clarify, I certainly don't have any issue with the spirit of such laws. My objections are with 1) uneven enforcements and reality on the ground. I 2) don't believe that anyone is going to disagree about the horrendous traffic safety issues in India. I just personally don't see any traffic cop going after politically appeased communities. One can argue that overall probability of death is still minimized.

1. were all these states including bjp ones sleeping at steering wheel when the bill was discussed. NK didnt pull this bill out of a hat. This has gone to state representatives and multiple parliamentary committees at both state and parliament level.
2. based on what i have read, this bill specifies the floors, states can also go up if they want.
3. THe question of breaking the floor will set a precedent which will have adverse implications on other laws too
4. at the end of day politically appeased communities are not more than 30% overall india. politically appeased or not everyone bears the responsibility. To me it looks like trying ot getting away with cheating in exam because others are cheating too. in fact i think majority will also talk about minority being treated with special love, ending this malaise starting at grassroot level. at some point or other we as a nation will have to take up the problem of special treatment of special communities. We can tackle all of the problems or special treatment at the same time but it will cause NYT to scream from mars about minority persecution. Not that it matters to me but a lot of people do care about it.
5. Issue of roads: yes but again that is not an excuse. in fact i think high fines and strong enforcement will make people ask tough questions to local authorities and gives us a chance from the vicious cycle and break the status quo.
My 5 paisa

ArjunPandit
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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby ArjunPandit » 13 Sep 2019 15:48

Vikas wrote:In case you have ever seen shared auto in Gurgaon, They even have 2-3 people sitting alongside driver. There is hardly room for the driver to even move his elbows. Should such drivers not be heavily fined and license suspended ?

having sat in those seats which almost amounts to driving them ....along with sitting on the top of those white buses to get the feel of those who came to india at the time of partition, i had the honor of talk to these guys.. most of these guys are just operators of the vehicles. they pay the vehicle owner fixed amount pocketing the rest. The fixed amounts are quite steep (assuming what they told 10 years ago was right). then there were hardly any buses and no olah uber ...good luck if you were late in night ...and wanted to avoid pimps between sahara mall and sikandarpur ..and my fav ..the ride from sikandar pur to sector 56 which was perfect testing ground for a lunar rover although the goats and sheeps during office hours were more suited for an alien planet..with hostile aliens simulated by gandasa or sickle wielding gujars..
lastly not to miss the tale of brush on shoulder with the hairy tail of a gau mata on a foggy winter night ......all while driving a bike full throttle with near zero visibility while optimizing the time in frigid cold v/s the velocity of the cold air due to the speed of bike...

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby pankajs » 13 Sep 2019 15:51

https://twitter.com/raghavohri0/status/ ... 5290699778
Raghav Ohri @raghavohri0

Court dismisses #Chidambaram's application to surrender before ED. To remain in Tihar, as of now

#Pchidambaram

https://twitter.com/barandbench/status/ ... 9993701378
Bar & Bench @barandbench

#BhimaKoregaon: In a setback to civil rights activist #GautamNavlakha, the #BombayHC turned down his plea seeking to quash the First Information Report (FIR) filed against him by the Pune Police.

https://twitter.com/barandbench/status/ ... 7064033280
Bar & Bench @barandbench

#BombayHC extends interim protection from his arrest to three weeks to approach and appeal before the Supreme Court. #GautamNavlakha

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby A_Gupta » 13 Sep 2019 17:11

India is under-policed, in terms of number of police per thousand people. I believe the ratio is one of the lowest in the world. Even if all the sanctioned police posts are filled, it will still be so.

Suraj
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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Suraj » 13 Sep 2019 18:29

vijayk wrote:Getting a lot of bad feedback on this new motorist laws with fines reaching thousands and police trying to harass people.

If anyone has a channel to BJP folks, please give them feedback

This comment means nothing without more detail. The police applying the law are not harassing people. If they're demanding any sort of bribe, they're not applying the law, so it has nothing to do with that. Which one is happening ?

One must realize that one of the things the Modi government has repeatedly tried to apply, is a rule based society. For long we have been a patronage based culture.
'Do you know who I am ?'
'I know people who can take care of it'
'Can you please use your influence ?'
And so on. That is not a rule based society.

For such a rule based society to work, rules must be applied, and one of the requirements is that the rules have to carry some substance. No one respects or follows a law that applies a laughable punishment, e.g. Rs.100 fine on a significant infarction. The fine must hurt, and it must be applied, and people must orient their own thinking in terms of staying within the law rather than being dismissive of it (but complain when the high and mighty are also dismissive of it).

Recently, the Mallya story is a case in point. He repeatedly claimed he 'tried to offer banks a deal but they refused his assurance, so this is politically motivated'. The argument could not be more wrong. His case is under IBC procedure now. As a debtor he has no say in 'making offers'. He's obliged to accept the decisions of the bankruptcy adjudicator.

That is how a lawful rule based system needs to work. The laws have to carry consequential punishment, including providing the means to apply it through revenue. People need to reorient their own lives to live within the law. Yes, I agree, many live within the margins of society and the price of breaking the law can be crippling. But a law was broken. The only socially friendly 'solution' is for government to be obliged to offer education. E.g. first time offenders have to attend mandatory education session of the new laws to get back their license without fine. Second time they get the full fine.

Something like the motor vehicle law, is the flip side of a systematic procedure being applied. Want your subsidy ? No need to beg the tehsildar or whoever previously had to be influenced to get it - it shows up systematically in the RuPay card every month. On the other hand, break a significant traffic law, like drive 40km/h above speed limit ? No influencing anybody - pay a very heavy fine.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby darshhan » 13 Sep 2019 18:43

A_Gupta wrote:India is under-policed, in terms of number of police per thousand people. I believe the ratio is one of the lowest in the world. Even if all the sanctioned police posts are filled, it will still be so.


Guptaji, Pls spare us. If there is one thing we do not want more of, it is cops. Ok increase in specialized positions such as forensics/investigations/swat etc is most welcome but that is it.

Also calculating ratio of policemen to per thousand people is a purely western construct. Is of very little use to us.

Suraj
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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Suraj » 13 Sep 2019 18:52

darshhan wrote:Guptaji, Pls spare us. If there is one thing we do not want more of, it is cops. Ok increase in specialized positions such as forensics/investigations/swat etc is most welcome but that is it.

Also calculating ratio of policemen to per thousand people is a purely western construct. Is of very little use to us.

An effective police force and a functioning law and order system are a societal requirement and not a 'western construct'. A_Gupta is right.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby darshhan » 13 Sep 2019 19:23

Suraj wrote:
darshhan wrote:Guptaji, Pls spare us. If there is one thing we do not want more of, it is cops. Ok increase in specialized positions such as forensics/investigations/swat etc is most welcome but that is it.

Also calculating ratio of policemen to per thousand people is a purely western construct. Is of very little use to us.

An effective police force and a functioning law and order system are a societal requirement and not a 'western construct'. A_Gupta is right.


A functioning law and order system is more dependent on moral and ethical strength of its populace along with relative economic well being of its people and extremely less on Police capabilities. Infact among all the parameters required for a functioning law and order system, number of police force manpower would be the least ranked. Data sure proves it otherwise. Otherwise why countries like US, Mexico, Brazil, South Africa etc have a higher crime rate than India.

Plus who will pay the salaries of these extra policemen. If you pay them less they will surely indulge in corruption(they will do it anyways). If you pay them more you will risk bankrupting state budgets.

Also there is this issue of fairness or rather lack of it with respect to police action in India. I have seldom seen police take action in ghettos of certain minority community if at all with the same zeal that they reserve for areas dominated by majority community. Increase in police manpower would only mean increase in police oppression meant for majority community including traffic challans.

Last but not the least, Police force in India is a British colonial creation which was intended to monitor and suppress native population at the behest of their colonial masters. The same behaviour continues till date. Sure there are many brilliant and effective police officers on individual basis, but as far as the DNA of the institution is concerned, it is rotten to the core and I am afraid almost impossible to redeem.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Suraj » 13 Sep 2019 20:30

darshhan wrote:A functioning law and order system is more dependent on moral and ethical strength of its populace along with relative economic well being of its people and extremely less on Police capabilities.

I disagree with this statement, and I think you're conflating multiple things into a single topic. People behave well both because it's good to behave well, and because it's bad for them and others to behave badly.

The argument 'some {insert names} countries have social problems, so this proves having police does nothing' is not relevant. You argue that Indian societal concerns cannot be dealt with using some western constructs, so why use western examples ?

The interface between Indian citizenry and police needs improvement, both in ability to access the police easily, and the ability to get things done fast. Let's assume India is bereft of social ills that require high policing - a highly dubious assumption, but still... Yet, Japan or Korea - homogeneous countries with self-policing cultures - has 40% more police per citizen than India, even though the police there are pretty invisible.

Developed countries (not necessarily western) typically have about 200-250 police/100K citizens at the low end and 350-450/100K at the high end. We have 150/100K . Most of western Europe ranks around 250-350/100K. Police in Austria or Germany are pretty invisible compared to US, but those countries have 350/100K people, while US has far fewer - 280/100K.

As a separate topic, the nature of the Indian penal code as a colonial construct which needs significant revision is something I agree with and have strongly advocated myself (the IPC should be replaced with something written to contemporary Indian requirements, as do some other civil codes), but that's quite a different matter from an argument against having a more numerically substantial police force.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Picklu » 13 Sep 2019 21:08

For traffic rules compliance to increase in india, the below 2 things need to happen

a. automated ticketing based on traffic camera and speed gun etc
b. unavoidable collection system like deducting the money directly from the aadhaar linked bank account etc

When a single constable is trying to cut challan in a busy junction, 1 in 100 offenders are actually getting caught to pay fine. This creates all sort of trouble like
a. janta hai mai kaun hoon
b. ek gandhi rakh yaar aur jaane de etc etc

With AI/ML based video analysis system, the traffic cams can easily catch even hitherto uncaught offenders like darker tint of glass, no seatbelt in the front seat, breaking one way etc.

One of the unavoidable fine collection place can be toll booths with a platoon of cisf deployed to handle any rowdy. Any vehicle that passes through it must be asked to pay any unpaid fine that's older than 3 month.

chetak
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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby chetak » 14 Sep 2019 01:33

NDTV style Journalism !

Only they can call ISIS terrorists as ACTIVIST

presstitution pales in describing such reportage.


Image
Last edited by chetak on 14 Sep 2019 02:58, edited 1 time in total.

darshan
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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby darshan » 14 Sep 2019 02:26

Workers? Hired help?

chetak wrote:NDTV style Journalism !

Only they can call ISIS terrorists as ACTIVIST

presstitution pales as a noun in describing such reportage.



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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Karan M » 14 Sep 2019 02:45

>>Also there is this issue of fairness or rather lack of it with respect to police action in India. I have seldom seen police take action in ghettos of certain minority community if at all with the same zeal that they reserve for areas dominated by majority community. Increase in police manpower would only mean increase in police oppression meant for majority community including traffic challans.

More cops may help when dealing with aggressive groups who mob the cops.

chetak
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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby chetak » 14 Sep 2019 03:18

the liar should get the padma again for dedication to untruth, biased reportage and plain darbari chaatugiri.

watch the video


Awards are great when Ravish and Rajdeep get it.

Awards mean nothing when @narendramodi gets it.

This is your another chance to witness the vulgar hypocrisy of our eminent journalists.



https://twitter.com/vivekagnihotri/status/1171066362564767745

chetak
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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby chetak » 14 Sep 2019 03:23

Here is David Reich conceding that Vedic civilisation is indigenous and has little or no contribution from the steppes. A grudging but deeply significant concession from geneticist assault leader for AIT till recently.

A funeral service for AIT will be held on 19th Oct in Jaipur




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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Atmavik » 14 Sep 2019 03:25

Picklu wrote:For traffic rules compliance to increase in india, the below 2 things need to happen

a. automated ticketing based on traffic camera and speed gun etc


this was implemented in few cross sections of HYD abt 8 yrs ago. i got a nice letter in the mail with a picture asking me to pay the fine. i got a similar fine few years later when i was out of the country(maybe a system glitch :roll: ) my dad went to an e-seva and paid the RS 100 fine.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby darshan » 14 Sep 2019 04:12


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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby A_Gupta » 14 Sep 2019 05:26

darshhan wrote:
A_Gupta wrote:India is under-policed, in terms of number of police per thousand people. I believe the ratio is one of the lowest in the world. Even if all the sanctioned police posts are filled, it will still be so.


Guptaji, Pls spare us. If there is one thing we do not want more of, it is cops. Ok increase in specialized positions such as forensics/investigations/swat etc is most welcome but that is it.

Also calculating ratio of policemen to per thousand people is a purely western construct. Is of very little use to us.


That is so :rotfl: that I won't say more.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Rudhraksha » 14 Sep 2019 06:51

Looking forward to see gulam nabhi Azad going to jail next. He was the custodian for all the millions of dollars that went to Jammu and Kashmir and routed back to congress coffers. This Big blow to the biggest recurring revenue stream of congress will hurt them badly.

pankajs wrote:https://twitter.com/nalinisharma_/status/1172077598022787072
Nalini @nalinisharma_

ED tells Special CBI court that they don’t want P. Chidambaram’s custody right now and will move for 15 days custody at a more “conducive time”.

Waiting to see if the “conducive time” occurs immediately at the end of Chidambaram’s judicial custody.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Picklu » 14 Sep 2019 10:02

Atmavik wrote:
Picklu wrote:For traffic rules compliance to increase in india, the below 2 things need to happen

a. automated ticketing based on traffic camera and speed gun etc


this was implemented in few cross sections of HYD abt 8 yrs ago. i got a nice letter in the mail with a picture asking me to pay the fine. i got a similar fine few years later when i was out of the country(maybe a system glitch :roll: ) my dad went to an e-seva and paid the RS 100 fine.


Yes, this automated ticket has started in quite a few place but this is only half of the required system. If collection isn’t unavoidable, certain sections of the society will simply ignore the tickets.
Hence the suggestion is to make the toll booths checkpoints and add crpf/cisf to handle rowdies. Unpaid fine means no usage of any toll road (off course the toll gate operation have to be automated with a camera capturing the vehicle number and generating the memo for toll plus unpaid fines)

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Vidur » 14 Sep 2019 12:22

Suraj wrote:
darshhan wrote:A functioning law and order system is more dependent on moral and ethical strength of its populace along with relative economic well being of its people and extremely less on Police capabilities.

I disagree with this statement, and I think you're conflating multiple things into a single topic. People behave well both because it's good to behave well, and because it's bad for them and others to behave badly.

The argument 'some {insert names} countries have social problems, so this proves having police does nothing' is not relevant. You argue that Indian societal concerns cannot be dealt with using some western constructs, so why use western examples ?

The interface between Indian citizenry and police needs improvement, both in ability to access the police easily, and the ability to get things done fast. Let's assume India is bereft of social ills that require high policing - a highly dubious assumption, but still... Yet, Japan or Korea - homogeneous countries with self-policing cultures - has 40% more police per citizen than India, even though the police there are pretty invisible.

Developed countries (not necessarily western) typically have about 200-250 police/100K citizens at the low end and 350-450/100K at the high end. We have 150/100K . Most of western Europe ranks around 250-350/100K. Police in Austria or Germany are pretty invisible compared to US, but those countries have 350/100K people, while US has far fewer - 280/100K.

As a separate topic, the nature of the Indian penal code as a colonial construct which needs significant revision is something I agree with and have strongly advocated myself (the IPC should be replaced with something written to contemporary Indian requirements, as do some other civil codes), but that's quite a different matter from an argument against having a more numerically substantial police force.


On Social Ills - Media portray India as rape capital of world. But in 2015 there were about 56 k rapes in India with a 26% conviction rate. In 2018 there were 38k rapes in UK with a 3% conviction rate. India population is 1.3 billion. UK is 65 million. India is not such a lawless society as media and western media make it out to be. Demonetisation was a good example.

Having said that, good enforcement and policing is important to ensure that good behaviour is protected and bad behavior is penalised. Enforcement is our weakest area. Therefore we need to address police and policing. The problems with Indian law enforcement and policing are many :

1. Political control of police force and use as personal constabulary
2. IPS
3. 3 levels of recruitment into police - IPS, Sub Inspector, Constable
4. Judicial system
5. Entitlement mentality at all levels of government and elite in society
6. Police numbers, training, equipment, infrastructure

We need to address all these issues.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Rsatchi » 14 Sep 2019 15:56

Digressing a bit
But on Hindi divas and hombres from south especially the atheist and the ‘bious ones’up in arms the government is going at it the wrong way
Get few eminent psychologists and language experts to discuss on benefits of early multiple language learning to later problem solving skills yadi yadi liberandus will shut up
Any opinion on this by the ‘silverbacks’ on the forum :rotfl:

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby pankajs » 14 Sep 2019 16:43

https://twitter.com/sushantsareen/statu ... 9214468096
sushant sareen @sushantsareen

The best thing to happen with the meltdown of the paks is that it has exposed so many of them for being the bigots they have always been. Of course, their apologists in India will still hold an alibi for them. But most Indians would now be aware of their neighbours from hell.

One reason why the likes of Suhasini Haider, etc were very upset with the "educated" bakis openly talking jihad on their TV. With every passing day the baki apologist space to spin keeps decreasing. And these things live for ever.

Again, it was interesting to observe that SM yodhas started posting Gulmeher style response to the NY Times 9/11 goofup. Beepul don't forget and that is one reason why apologist's narrative have lesser traction that previous times.
https://twitter.com/sushantsareen/statu ... 1433279488
sushant sareen @sushantsareen

Someone should document each and every statement these guys are making so that when they come crawling for med treatment, IPL contracts etc, these are flung in their face.

https://twitter.com/loveInBakshi/status ... 1771497474
LAVEEN BAKSHI @loveInBakshi

People often made distinction between miltablishment and general public. This myth is being busted now, lines are getting blurred showing the filthy ideology across cross-section

pankajs
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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby pankajs » 14 Sep 2019 16:54

People on SM are celebrating the demise of the biased "HateCrimeWatch"

https://twitter.com/FactCheckIndia/stat ... 2255407104
FactChecker.in @FactCheckIndia

#HateCrimeWatch is moving to a new home. With this, we effectively and immediately end our association with this crucial tool. The http://FactChecker.in team had identified a gnawing gap in crime reporting and basis this lacunae we conceptualised #HateCrimeWatch.

This is a a premature celebration IMHO.

1. I think it is moving as is stated in the tweet.
2. It will move to place/home where it will be immune to pressures from the Indian Laws/SM yodhas like say to Harvard University or some such place.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby krisna » 14 Sep 2019 22:24

https://swarajyamag.com/ideas/indiaspen ... du-victims

IndiaSpend’s ‘Hate Tracker’ is gone but many questions on its data and methodology still remain unanswered.


The National Crime Records Bureau (NCRB), the Indian government agency responsible for collecting and analysing crime data, does not maintain specific data on religious hate crimes as they are not defined under the Indian law.



Though the portal did not officially announce it, it has also pulled down its other database on ‘cow-related violence in India’ that was available at lynch.factchecker.in. This database was quoted by advocate Indira Jaisingh in an affidavit to the Supreme Court in 2018 for a petition to crackdown on so-called cow vigilantes.


As of 9 September 2019, the database had recorded 303 attacks to conclude that Muslims were overwhelmingly the largest victims of hate crimes in India and Hindus overwhelmingly the highest perpetrators.


The database was cited by several left-leaning and far-left Indian and foreign publications in the run up to the 2019 Lok Sabha elections. It was used to make the claim that in the five years of the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) government from 2014 to 2019, hate crimes against Muslims soared in India.
The database claimed that 90 per cent of religious hate crimes in the last decade occurred since Narendra Modi came to power.


The publications citing the database included NDTV, The Hindu, Economic and Political Weekly, The Wire, Scroll.in, and The Quint, as well as the Washington Post, Al Jazeera, New York Times, New Yorker and the BBC.


In December 2018, the official Twitter handle of the Congress Party cited the database to take a political dig at PM Modi. “The year 2018 saw the most hate crimes motivated by religious bias in India in a decade. Acche din for whom PM Modi?” the tweet said.


The backers of this venture have connections to scamgress leftists and in Europe usa.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby vimal » 14 Sep 2019 23:10

So the funding dried out once the 2019 election results came in and proved that no one cared about this bogus data.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby vijayk » 15 Sep 2019 08:52


chetak
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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby chetak » 15 Sep 2019 12:36

twitter


The reopening of the Yasin Malik case is also a STINGING indictment of the hon'ble Supreme Court that DIABOLICALLY dismissed the reopening of all cases pertaining to criminal atrocities against Kashmiri Pandits because, in its opinion, TOO MUCH TIME HAD ELAPSED.

Never forget.

chetak
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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby chetak » 15 Sep 2019 15:18

twitter

Congress @INCIndia in 30 years what a transformation? Rajiv Gandhi-Sonia Gandhi-Rahul Gandhi @RahulGandhi changed the policies principles and ideologies of Grand old Party-from Centre of right-into total anti majority -pro minority. This what AK Antony @Jairam_Ramesh hint at.




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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby darshan » 15 Sep 2019 17:55

Prashant Kishor’s team starts reaching out to media and influencers with ‘paid content’ offers ahead of West Bengal assembly elections

OpIndia reached out to one of the people directly involved in campaigning from IPAC to ask him about their plans on social media for TMC during the upcoming West Bengal assembly elections. When asked about the email, the IPAC executive sounded confused and attempting to shield TMC.

https://www.opindia.com/2019/09/prashan ... chronicle/

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Nalla Baalu » 15 Sep 2019 19:18

Any fellow jingos registered for this Modi event @ Houston?

vijayk wrote:https://thewire.in/diplomacy/trump-might-appear-at-modi-rally-in-houston/amp

Trump might appear at Modi event

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Sachin » 15 Sep 2019 19:18

vijayk wrote:Getting a lot of bad feedback on this new motorist laws with fines reaching thousands and police trying to harass people.
If anyone has a channel to BJP folks, please give them feedback

The bad feedback is there because people find the punishments really scaring. The fines in MV Act 1988 was pathetic. Even a beggar will have Rs 100/- to pay as fine. But now people would think twice before breaking any motor vehicle related rules. I had just got my Pollution Under Control certificate renewed. The place had a queue for around 1 hour 30 minutes. Every body was getting this certificate worth Rs. 50/- done, because or else a fine of Rs. 1000 is waiting for them.

I have see poor people expressing how they are being harassed. This will come back to haunt us. People travel hanging in vehicles/buses because they can't afford transport.

Being "poor" is another excuse in India to do any thing (including crimes). An auto rickshaw driver who was fined a hefty sum was considered poor but he was rich enough to get good doze of alcohol and then go around driving.

darshan wrote: I just personally don't see any traffic cop going after politically appeased communities. One can argue that overall probability of death is still minimized.

This attitude of let the police do activity A; prove that to me and then do activity B has been there in India from time immemorial. But unfortunately policing in any part of the world does not work that way. A thief will say first go and arrest all rapists before arresting them, while the rapists would say let the police focus on murderers first ):). Now if there is a contention that Muslims are never fined/penalised by the police that has to be addressed in a different way, and not making Hindus also immune to any law in India.

darshhan wrote:A functioning law and order system is more dependent on moral and ethical strength of its populace along with relative economic well being of its people and extremely less on Police capabilities.

A society gets the police force it actually deserves. A generally corrupt and unethical society will never get a very honest police force. A police man till the age of 18 is living as a common Indian, in a typical Indian society. The vices (and good things) of such a society will have firmly got ingrained in him even before the first day of his recruit training. The police training (which is for 9-12 months) is never going to make him a completely different person with a different mindset. How many of us can keep a hand in our heart and say that Indian society is a very ethical and honest group?

Picklu wrote:a. automated ticketing based on traffic camera and speed gun etc

The MV Act has provisions to ensure that automated detection of traffic violations are encouraged. It even mandates that National Highways have to be monitored electronically. And for speed violations; the act is very clear. To prove traffic violation reading from an electronic or mechanical speed check device have to be there. It cannot be on the words of an official alone.

States like KL has already started issuing notices for speed violations from a central location. They differentiator is that the offender and the enforcement official are never close to each other for offering or demanding bribes. And a day to day monitoring of the notices served will also ensure that the police men at these control centers are also not idling away their time.

What can be done next is to have simple mobile phone apps using which traffic law enforcement officials can also check the past history of any license holder or vehicle registered any where in India. And that any vehicle/driver with pending fines etc be recognized easily.

ramana wrote:1) The MV Act comes under concurrent list. That means states can ignore and or dilute provisions.

Saar, I don't think any state can ignore any national level law. MV Act 1988 clearly says that this law is applicable all across India. All state governments can do is to informally tell the RTO/MVD/Police to go slow on detecting MV Act related cases. Also Section 200 of Motor Vehicle Act (the old one and the amended one) provides the state to set the fine amount for the below offenses. The only catch being they cannot reduce it to below the minimum set amount. Many states who boast about reducing fines have actually used this provision. And we must also understand that the money collected as fines goes to state government (and not to Yeevil Modi & co at the central govt.) ;).
Offenses "compoundable" using provisions of Sec 200, MV Act.
Sec 177 – General provision to levy penalties
Sec 178 – Ticketless travel, or conductor not issuing tickets
Sec 179 – Disobedience to instructions given by police officials Sec 180 – Allowing unauthorised people to drive vehicles
Sec 181 – Driving/riding without a license, or violating age related rules on licenses.
Sec 182 – Punishment for cheating to get a driving license.
Sec 182A – Violating rules on the construction and maintenance of vehicles.
Sec 182B – Violating rules related to fitness of vehicles.
Sec 183 (1) & (2) – Speed rule violations
Sec 184 – Driving dangerously. But fine can be changed only for usage of mobile hand held communication devices.
Sec 186 – Driving when mentally or physically unfit to drive.
Sec 189 – Racing and trials of speed done without proper permissions.
Sec 190 (2) – Using vehicles in unsafe conditions.
Sec 192 – Using vehicle without registration.
Sec 192A – Using vehicle without necessary permits (mainly public transport) or permit violation.
Sec 194 – Overloading the vehicle (Goods).
Sec 194A – Overloading of passengers.
Sec 194B – Seat belt or child restraint not used.
Sec 194C – Triple riding.
Sec 194D – Riding without helmets.
Sec 194E- Not yielding to emergency

Came back to say: The amended motor vehicle act has entirely REPLACED the chapter dealing with Insurance claims, and this chapter is actually having more beneficial provisions to RTA victims. So the uppity state governments who say the Act will not be rolled out is also telling their citizens that they will not get adequate insurance protection.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Sachin » 15 Sep 2019 19:19

RSatchi wrote:But on Hindi divas and hombres from south especially the atheist and the ‘bious ones’up in arms the government is going at it the wrong way

The best among the Hindi haters are the communists of Kerala :lol: . "Down with Hindi" followed by Inquilab Zindabad & Lal Salaam; without even knowing that their slogans are in Hindi :lol:.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby darshan » 15 Sep 2019 19:34

Sachin wrote:Inquilab Zindabad & Lal Salaam; without even knowing that their slogans are in Hindi :lol:.

How’s that Hindi? Clearly words with islam affiliation. Except lal. May be they do know that.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby darshan » 15 Sep 2019 20:06

Sachin wrote:
darshan wrote: I just personally don't see any traffic cop going after politically appeased communities. One can argue that overall probability of death is still minimized.

This attitude of let the police do activity A; prove that to me and then do activity B has been there in India from time immemorial. But unfortunately policing in any part of the world does not work that way. A thief will say first go and arrest all rapists before arresting them, while the rapists would say let the police focus on murderers first ):). Now if there is a contention that Muslims are never fined/penalised by the police that has to be addressed in a different way, and not making Hindus also immune to any law in India.

One of my contentions was about muslims getting away and being used as proxies to run rackets to earn money by politicians and bureaucrats. The GJ duo had studied this MV act angle during GJ days and had found to be high risk and low reward without the substantial groundwork. There were many pros and cons came to light when pulling various threads. For example, there will be revenue streams if fine is increased. Will this result in good or bad? Will money from Indian citizen’ pockets reach international shores? Etc. Various items were tabled to tackle the traffic deaths. Example, ambulances with cameras and cops going after blockers with heavy handedness. Ways that changed public behavior little by little were preferred. Lot of ugliness came to light when looking past the truck’s windows; how courts and cops handled things.

When combined with inaction in other areas, no indication of groundwork that was identified, what I’m puzzled about is whether this action is pre mature firing of gun, part of the bigger plan, etc.

Off topic, it’s interesting to note the ease with which all the bureaucracy backed rackets run through the muslim proxies and muscle power that transferred over from INC. Lot of back watching and Trojan horse searching...... These rackets over decades all put many legitimate people out of the business.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Sachin » 15 Sep 2019 20:21

darshan wrote:One of my contentions was about muslims getting away and being used as proxies to run rackets to earn money by politicians and bureaucrats.

Not to derail the thread. The point you raised here is actually some thing which I had in mind for quite some time. Many people now pretty much are open in saying that Muslim community is ghetto-ised and are more prone for organising and conducting riots. In KL, hawala and gold smuggling is like a Muslim business enterprise.

But then looking a bit beyond the obvious, I too got a feeling that majority of the times the benefeciaries of these illegal & criminal activities are Hindus (mainly the business groups & then politicians). I remember a KL Muslim stating it in social media; if Muslims are responsible for whole sale gold smuggling and black money rackets why no one is asking who are their end customers? In KL at least the Gold business is heavily dominated by Hindus and X'ians. They are the primary customers of the gold smugglers. And real estate business also is a very "secular" business area, and there is no one out there who have not used unaccounted money in their projects.

Now when you say that Muslims are being used as proxies by politicians and bureaucrats the next question would be what are their religious identities? They would be non-Muslims who have effectively used the Muslim community as their cat's paws. But why they chose the Muslim community as their favourite henchmen perhaps require more debate and analysis.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby darshan » 15 Sep 2019 21:03

Sachin wrote:Now when you say that Muslims are being used as proxies by politicians and bureaucrats the next question would be what are their religious identities? They would be non-Muslims who have effectively used the Muslim community as their cat's paws. But why they chose the Muslim community as their favourite henchmen perhaps require more debate and analysis.


I don't think this should derail the thread. I would say that this is the part that you don't see in news or on Google and come to BR for. 2019 isn't the first year that the GJ duo realized that something needs to be done about the deaths. They were certainly there in GJ for decades. Taking firm action required groundwork and tackling many institutions. Traffic death variety go from the operator of the vehicle taking chance to doctor in a hospital. No action for sometime and sudden action. Both at GJ and national level. Is it as simple as ineffective minister? I'm sure that Modi is competent enough to ask each ministry everyday about what's being done to reduce each type of death.

I don't know about the other states but INC from the early days have used muslim muscle power to run this rackets. And, yes primary beneficiaries would have been Hindu bureaucracy and politicians. For example, just last year I was studying how all muslim pawns of solankis started reporting and working with local BJP councilors in Anand district sometime back. Liquor and drugs get peddled through GJ highways like no one's worried. Anand district is a big consumer. Tons of transportation business is run in charotar by these proxies. Decent businessman, if there's one still surviving, would not take chances lest be there's an accident and you would end up loosing all to bureaucracy to stay out of jail. Chance takers were and are not afraid as they are the judge, jury, and executioner.

Off topic, I was actually trying to analyze the district's resentments and toss up of 50/50 on INC winning it. One concern was solankis replenishing their lost assets pretty fast post demonetization. Were the rackets skimming off somewhere and had loyalties to INC?

You mentioned seeing lines for PUC. However, this is not the first time event at least in Gujarat. So if they translated in something meaningful, then why are we here back happy about non first time event. Why did it not translate into a next step last time people lined up for it?

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby SBajwa » 15 Sep 2019 21:21

A_Gupta wrote:
darshhan wrote:
Guptaji, Pls spare us. If there is one thing we do not want more of, it is cops. Ok increase in specialized positions such as forensics/investigations/swat etc is most welcome but that is it.

Also calculating ratio of policemen to per thousand people is a purely western construct. Is of very little use to us.


That is so :rotfl: that I won't say more.



The best thing is to give local people (aka Panchayats and muncipalities) to hire/fire police officers, doctors, nurses, tax collectors, etc as per their requirements. The concept of State and Central police is a british one used to have one way traffic of all the money going straight to the king of england directly from the poor folks of villages.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby banrjeer » 16 Sep 2019 00:23

vimal wrote:So the funding dried out once the 2019 election results came in and proved that no one cared about this bogus data.


But this or something similar can be kept active and leveraged.

Theres a dearth in reporting of violations and public interest causes when the perpetrators are Terrorists or insurgents e.g. Maoists gunning down a BJP candidate etc.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby darshan » 16 Sep 2019 01:12

Congress workers get into a fight at Indore, angered Jyotiraditya Scindia leaves event midway
https://www.opindia.com/2019/09/congres ... nt-midway/
Amid the growing uncertainty over the appointment of state Congress chief in Madhya Pradesh, Jyotiraditya Scindia visited the residences of several Congress leaders in Indore


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