2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

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vijayk
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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby vijayk » 03 Jul 2019 23:34

Image

We need to fight these demons day in and day out. While these demons are blaming BJP/RW, CONs are blaming Modi/Shah for not acting and ISIS journalists like Rana Ayyub are egging on Msulim to go full scale war on roads


Saba Naqvi
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Jul 2

Fascinating....How BJP Supporters Turned A Fight Over Parking Into A ‘Terror Attack’


Slowly and Surely their strategy is emerging. The strategy 2019-24 is surely emerging.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby khatvaanga » 03 Jul 2019 23:47

2019 was on Vikas. 2024 will be on Hindutva.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby syam » 04 Jul 2019 00:02

khatvaanga wrote:syam ji i didnt understand your statement about using numbers.

That's the approx. strength of c-system at different levels. I considered worst case scenarios when coming up with the numbers. They might be much lower than that.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby khatvaanga » 04 Jul 2019 00:11

got it. thanks.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby KLNMurthy » 04 Jul 2019 00:23

vijayk wrote:Image

We need to fight these demons day in and day out. While these demons are blaming BJP/RW, CONs are blaming Modi/Shah for not acting and ISIS journalists like Rana Ayyub are egging on Msulim to go full scale war on roads


Saba Naqvi
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Jul 2

Fascinating....How BJP Supporters Turned A Fight Over Parking Into A ‘Terror Attack’


Slowly and Surely their strategy is emerging. The strategy 2019-24 is surely emerging.


Can you spell out what you mean when you say "fight?" I gave my idea. I think we need to spell out specific actions and explain how they will help.

We on this forum know who the enemy dramatis personae are, at least on the Indian side. I feel that there is no added benefit to showing they are the enemy, repeatedly.
Last edited by KLNMurthy on 04 Jul 2019 00:35, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby sanjayc » 04 Jul 2019 00:29

Mort Walker wrote:Republic TV claims that AAP operatives instigated the Muslim youths into ransacking the temple and attacking the family. Delhi police control room was called 6 times and it took them more than hour to arrive on the scene.


This looks like mischief of Kejriwal. The Sikh flareup ten days back was being instigated by a Sikh MLA of AAP, while this Muslim flareup was instigated by a Muslim MLA of AAP from Chandi Chowk. Last year, it was reported on TV that AAP workers dressed up in saffron stood in front of a mosque in Delhi waving swords. They were identified later when the ring leader's photo with Kejri went viral. Kejri seems to be in the grip of foriegn forces and may be taking instructions from abroad. His sudden rise was very suspicious. Kejri is trying to Islamicize Delhi by arranging migration of Bihar Muslims to Delhi.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby A_Gupta » 04 Jul 2019 00:37

KLNMurthy wrote:
A_Gupta wrote:
That is excellent. I would not term your wanting that as "rhona-dhona".

Just to be clear, it wasn’t a throwaway line. I believe the current spate of incidents is a continuation of Death By a Thousand Cuts Under the Nuclear Umbrella doctrine.


No argument against here.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby pankajs » 04 Jul 2019 02:00

pankajs wrote:3. With every passing day that Modi/BJP occupy the central gaddi they continue to shift the "consciousness" of the masses rightwards.

https://twitter.com/DrAMSinghvi/status/ ... 6756657152
Abhishek Singhvi Verified account @DrAMSinghvi
हलाला जायज और एक्टिंग हराम,क्या ऐसे तरक्की करेगा हिंदुस्तान का मुसलमान ? #ZairaWasim

This might be a drama BUT Modi is making folks of every hue and color shift their position even if just for public consumption.

This tweet 3k+ replies 5k+ RTs and 18K+ likes and Slams are very upset with it and showing it in their replies. BTW, Some yindu sounding CON supporters too are very upset with Abhisex ji

Enjoy the khujali if you have some time to waste.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Karan M » 04 Jul 2019 02:08

A_Gupta wrote:Rhona dhona is the crying for some unspecified muscular-seeming action without any specification of what it should be. You guys should state what you want from the unwatered down Hindu blood. Should it be like the riots following Godhra train burning? Should the central police simply sweep in and arrest every person in some particular neighborhood? Should certain people be "disappeared"? Do spell it out.


Lets not make such claims about *wanting* riots etc. Anyone sensible would want to avoid them.

1.The NIA and CBI should be brought into investigate all those individuals who are fanning the dara hua musalman rubbish and provoking such mobs via whatsapp etc. OGW workers like Ayyub etc should be investigated for incitement.
2. Strictest action should be taken against any hate attacks using mobs as cover. Use the NIA, and if it means locking up a 100 odd folks and throwing the key away, do it. And repeat it, till the message goes home.
3. Dismiss govts like the WB govt and KL ones where H activists get murdered, citing law & order, and investigate those murders all the way to the top.
4. Have all textbooks scanned for Hinduphobic crap and have them corrected especially central board ones and state board ones where BJP is in power. Don't repeat what that genius Javdekar said.
5. Initiate action against erring babus and officials who are too cowardly to take action, note down FIRs when communal attacks take place.
6. Stop/renounce appeasement politics from Mahatma Modi.
7. Clear and no-nonsense security first policy.

Don't do 1,2 and 5 and I can guarantee you riots are around the corner. 4 is something which is a low hanging fruit and Modi completely ignored it. It has huge ramifications for the future. Modi was elected in part because people expected he'd crack down on the low-level jihad underway. Instead he remained silent while PR campaigns spun the whole M's are being lynched story, he has a skin of a rhinoceros but still values his international "image". People at the receiving end of the violence have no such luxury.

He is now is silent when H's are being attacked non stop, merely because his Govt was voted in, and M's who have long been brainwashed into believing that H's had to follow a one-sided imposition of secularism, have decided to wreak revenge on H's. He has only commented on Tabrez. Did not even attempt to counter with what's happening to H's. When disillusionment sets in, people will take the law into their own hands, Modi or no Modi. Then he can kiss his image and his hug-plomacy good bye. His attempt as in term 1 to pretend that a few temple visits and some PR work will compensate for his image amongst Hindus, can only go so far. If riots occur, and he is forced to crack down on the H rioters then bye bye significant chunk of the voter base who see it as betrayal. If he doesn't then bye bye image of being some new worshipful adherent of Gandhiji and the eternal constitution. The clock is ticking. Pretending to ignore M violence OR cynically use it to further polarize the voter base and have them vote for BJP out of fear and desperation won't work beyond a point.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby A_Gupta » 04 Jul 2019 02:41

Please preserve this thread for the 2024 elections.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Karan M » 04 Jul 2019 02:43

Whats your point exactly? Do you think people like I who voted for Modi and did spend a fair amount of effort in having others vote for him, should not criticize his policies? If so, you are expecting an echo chamber.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby A_Gupta » 04 Jul 2019 02:51

What part of "please preserve this thread for the 2024 elections" is difficult to understand?

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Mort Walker » 04 Jul 2019 02:56

A_Gupta wrote:Rhona dhona is the crying for some unspecified muscular-seeming action without any specification of what it should be. You guys should state what you want from the unwatered down Hindu blood. Should it be like the riots following Godhra train burning? Should the central police simply sweep in and arrest every person in some particular neighborhood? Should certain people be "disappeared"? Do spell it out.


This is the typical refrain from liberals. All anyone is asking for is the protection of Hindus who have been persecuted for over a thousand years. There must be law and order. Islam and Christianity were imposed on India by force. State and local governments have not responded to the protection of people and property because they are Hindus. That is the reason why people are asking about Modi and Shah to intervene to help them.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby vijayk » 04 Jul 2019 04:34

KLNMurthy wrote:
Can you spell out what you mean when you say "fight?" I gave my idea. I think we need to spell out specific actions and explain how they will help.

We on this forum know who the enemy dramatis personae are, at least on the Indian side. I feel that there is no added benefit to showing they are the enemy, repeatedly.


We need to fight them to gain narrative. They own and co-ordinate worldwide media.
Their vision is simple: Support and discredit India, promote Islamists/EJs, Help BIF/ Undermine every institution that does not cater to their idea of India/Block jihadi factory news/Block Conversion agendas.

If BJP supports free market reforms - one section makes it look like a crime on Dalits/Workers
If BJP veers to left - blame them for slow economy and jobs.


Our task is much harder: Even if the attack is on common people by jihadis, the minute you raise it you are labeled as bigot, banned by SM and several incident where they used tweets to tag employers and force them to fire them. Even act of supporting India cricket team or Moon landing or wearing a saree is used to discredit you as nationalist/bigot. Sometimes friends told me to be careful when I RTed a tweet saying that can be interpreted as bigotry.

I remember once I RTed a tweet on Auranzeb's murderous history. Several friends pinged me to say that can be a divisive issue.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby ramana » 04 Jul 2019 05:05

Calm down guys. The Central Police agencies like NIA and CBI have limited scope to work in states with non BJP govt due to the federal structure created by the Constitution. Both need permission of the state govts.

NIA can act only in Terrorism cases.
CBI can act only in economic offenses.

As for dismissing Jihadidi using Art 355, there are SC judgements on this after S.R. Bommai case.

Best option and holy people wont like is to make TMC members resgin in the areas that BJP won and reduce the govt to a minority and call for early elections.

From tea leaves Jihadidi has lost the mandate and is confined to greater Kolkata like the Old Mughals were confined to Delhi and outskirts.

In Kerala the LDF is discredited too.
By same token one could argue the AIDMK is also a lame duck govt.
So it will 2:1
While Bengal could be won by BJP, I don't think the dame with other two for separate reasons.

More important is toe change Karnataka, MP, Rajasthan before all this.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Karan M » 04 Jul 2019 06:14

A_Gupta wrote:What part of "please preserve this thread for the 2024 elections" is difficult to understand?


The part wherein you mock people having legitimate concerns as doing rhona dhona, dismiss any replies as asking for riots, then bring up a sudden ask for preserving the thread for 2024 elections. At least troll with more subtlety!

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Karan M » 04 Jul 2019 06:27

Ramana sirji, do you think the reasons you have pointed out would have stopped the UPA from taking action with respect to its preferred vishesh votebank, if the shoe was on the other foot? All sorts of obscure laws to reasons would have been dug out to go hammer and tongs at the predecided guilty folks to appease the mullah- left - padre combine.

What I am seeing from the BJP is a parody of sorts. His highness Mr Vikas keeps a studied silence, despite number of attacks, even on his own people ie those who voted for him and are being targeted because of it, and responds only to one attack on the M community thief, and brings up image of the state as a debating point. Meanwhile his PR guys are going nuts, including his own media guys, posting memes, messages about these incidents. Meanwhile incidents continue and dont stop, emboldening the left-jihadi combine to get even more blatant. The media groups who even in ABVs time were brought to heel post Tehelka, continue to operate with impunity fanning the flames. There are so many things any decisive state can do to put inciters like Ayyub on the spot, and all those running the whole Ms are in trouble storyline. Modi has done zilch on that front so far. Development can win you elections but wont stop riots.

Now, cynics would point out this is " classic running with the hares hunting with the hounds". Low level violence, polarization keeps voters locked into the BJP. But what we saw in Delhi was complete apathy. A fear even of saying something lest it put Modi ji on the spot, refusal to acknowledge the bigotry behind the crime.

I still have hopes this is a lull before some kind of decisive action by Shah and co and this is not an electoral ploy.

What I am concerned about is how too clever by half wait and watch, one day we will take action sort of strategies, can backfire. I have seen ghettos in India up close and can assure you subtlety is not one of the inhabitants of those areas, plus points. Anti H hatred was common, violence against H folks an everyday event, and only the post Babri riots brought some sort of tenuous ceasefire. Their antics if not nipped in the bud, will keep escalating and ultimately end up in something truly horrific as we saw in Godhra. Then all bets are off, bye bye image, bye bye vikas. Do we really want to go down that path again?

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Hari Seldon » 04 Jul 2019 06:32

Karan M wrote:The part wherein you mock people having legitimate concerns as doing rhona dhona, dismiss any replies as asking for riots, then bring up a sudden ask for preserving the thread for 2024 elections. At least troll with more subtlety!


#Thanks4SayingIt or rather, daring to.

Justice requires that justice being done be seen as being done.

Whilst jihardon rampages (even 'em 'low-level' ones) are loud and clear and macho(d), the strictly constitutionalist L&O approach of NIA or CBI or local pulis doesn't allow for 'justice being seen as done'. Those arrested (even before 'em cameras) will likely be out on bail in a week o less by which time there'll be no cameras present.

So what's the solution, if any? Dunno, truth be told. Hence, have been on STFU mode for a while thinking it over.

My current view - Ideally we'd have a clear acknowledgement of the problem by the trustees of the popular vote. Wherein said trustees state in clear terms that signs of organized lawlessness and deliberate criminality are visible, so old laws will be enforced strictly and new laws may well be considered to combat them. Just say it! A leader talking to the people, Verbal reassurance and its role in 'being seen to be done' is underestimated quite a bit, IMVVHO.

But little could be worse than saying nothing and being seen as doing nothing. This mounting impression of M impunity in the face of seeming H helplessness benefits who exactly?

JMTPs and other std disclaimers, of course.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby vijayk » 04 Jul 2019 08:43

^^ Lets give sometime for them to act. I want them to act instead of talk

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby syam » 04 Jul 2019 09:50

Latest buzz on social media is, some how modiji killing vhp and bajrang dal from inside.

This is consequence of 'you do it' mindset. Forget about learning what Sangh is. We even peddle our own bull. That's the state of Hindu community these days.

More than half of the community problems will be solved if every hindu joins Sangh. Sadly, who cares. We all want to sit at our home and expect NaMo or Yogi to do all the hard work.
Last edited by syam on 05 Jul 2019 00:15, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby aylamrin » 04 Jul 2019 11:49

ramana wrote:Calm down guys. The Central Police agencies like NIA and CBI have limited scope to work in states with non BJP govt due to the federal structure created by the Constitution. Both need permission of the state govts.

NIA can act only in Terrorism cases.
CBI can act only in economic offenses.

As for dismissing Jihadidi using Art 355, there are SC judgements on this after S.R. Bommai case.

Best option and holy people wont like is to make TMC members resgin in the areas that BJP won and reduce the govt to a minority and call for early elections.

From tea leaves Jihadidi has lost the mandate and is confined to greater Kolkata like the Old Mughals were confined to Delhi and outskirts.

In Kerala the LDF is discredited too.
By same token one could argue the AIDMK is also a lame duck govt.
So it will 2:1
While Bengal could be won by BJP, I don't think the dame with other two for separate reasons.

More important is toe change Karnataka, MP, Rajasthan before all this.


Top management works on inputs from state leadership. State leadership feels that they will wane away the cadre base of Terrorist Mullah Chor party gradually. Looks like PK has advised Jihadididi to advise her minions to return the commissions they have extorting, and this has caused disenchantment in the rank and file. PK has also advised her to join hands with CPIM and Congress to fight "communal powers". It's time that "irony" is charged with a speeding ticket. :rotfl: And if this was not enough her star MP Mahua Moitra was found plagiarising a speech (her claim to fame is when she was showing the finger on Arnab's show) from Martin Longman's 12 signs of Fascism article.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Sachin » 04 Jul 2019 12:44

pankajs wrote:Poor will get their sops, middle class their L&O while the rest can suck their thumbs.

Good L&O situation is not a very easy promise to keep. There are many agencies involved, and what each group considers as "justice & fair play" is different. But if the belligerent minority communities are kept on a tight leash, that would certainly be a big positive.

BTW, I agree with that Scientist chap Anand Ranganathan, who opined that we need another party to the right of the BJP to take Mudi on.

+1. The BJP should now be pushed more to the right-centrist position (with the centrist-left folks, ie the commies thrown out of the window), with a more right-minded party taking up the space. Looks like BJP would now need some reminders on their earlier promises (eg: Union Law Minister Evades Query In Lok Sabha About Centre Bringing Law To Overturn Sabarimala Verdict ).

sanjayc wrote:Kejri seems to be in the grip of foriegn forces and may be taking instructions from abroad. His sudden rise was very suspicious. Kejri is trying to Islamicize Delhi by arranging migration of Bihar Muslims to Delhi.

Kejri is a Shikhandi who has been introduced by other players just to play his role. So it is also the onus on Delhi voters to ensure that he and his fellow anarchists do not come any where near Delhi's political circles. The AAP's formation itself should be worth an investigation/case study.

ramana wrote:In Kerala the LDF is discredited too.

I get a feeling that some thing is seriously getting planned for dealing with KL ;). A.Shah & Co are not clueless and I feel that the pawns in the game have already started falling in place. The Sabari Mala fiasco has now caught the commies on the wrong foot. They need to work on their mitigation plan. But while they are at it; a similar issue is happening within the X'ian community too. SC threatens to jail Kerala top officials over church case. The SC verdict favours on sect, and now GoKL will have to actually "execute" the court order. That is to evict members of the rival sect from certain churches. This is going to cause big rifts (and even a minor flare up) among the X'ian community in Kerala. The commies would certainly see some of their "neutral" sympathisers now having a change of mind. Looks like the plan is to get the commie government into very dicey situations, and make them scared of taking any decisions. Along with that I also feel that there would be now some news leaks which talks about nepotism, misuse of tax-payers money for foreign junket trips etc.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Manish_Sharma » 04 Jul 2019 14:34

https://www.myind.net/Home/viewArticle/ ... esecrated/

Why The Hindu Becomes Silent When His Temples Are Desecrated?

“Why is there silence over the desecration of the temple in Delhi? Forget the media and intellectuals, why are even the ordinary Hindus not speaking up?” A friend asked me in a get together. We both said as Hindus it is very painful for us.

“It is not the desecration of the temple that I find as painful as the silence that has come to engulf it,” I told him.

The silence has come to characterize our psyche and one that has remained unchanged for centuries.

A question on the mind of many is that is this the way the crowds destroyed temples in medieval times too? I believe there are uncanny similarities. The violent crowd then and now had impunity and worked under a religious injunction to do so. In both the Hindus didn’t retaliate or oppose and remained silent spectators. It brings to fore the close relationship between trauma and silence.

A memory comes to my mind. As a psychologist I was testifying as an expert witness on a number of heinous crimes. In one case the victim was a seventeen year old girl and the judge believed the accused was framed by police because the girl didn’t scream, shout or fight but stayed silent. Looking at the report where I had mentioned psychological assessment showed the girl suffering from PTSD, he seemed to have disbelieved it and asked if she was truly traumatized why didn’t she scream and shout but remained silent instead? Why didn’t she try to fight him?

“The girl remained silent, your honor, not because she was consenting to the accused but because the very nature of trauma is such that the victim falls silent under overwhelming threat to life,” I had told him and added that the psychological studies show the Broca’s area concerned with the production of speech in human beings slows down with almost very little activity when facing the traumatic event or traumatic memories are aroused. During the actual event, most victims are unable to shout for this reason. I quoted Bessel van der Kolk, the psychiatrist and pioneer credited with this discovery. The judge had listened and asked for more details which I could provide. I could see his mind towards the accused change after understanding the inner state of the victim and so did his sentencing.

Later the judge had called me to his chamber. He told me he wished he had known this relationship between trauma and lack of speech. He shared that while sentencing, every victim whom he had found not resisting, protesting or screaming against the perpetrator during the crime, he had let the accused go free believing the victim to be lying. “Today, I feel a little guilty of having done so,” and had asked me to give a talk at National Judicial Academy.

I wish to make it clear that in genuine cases, an overwhelming percentage of girls and women find it difficult to give words to their experience of assault, so overwhelming is the whole experience of trauma.

The same applies to soldiers on the battlefield, disaster survivors or survivors of atrocities. Their memory plays hide and seek with them through interfering with the Broca’s area and silence comes to rule over their memory.

Today, we know from researches that what applies to memory of individuals also applies to larger systems. Societies as a whole respond just like individuals. Based on that when they go through a collective trauma the individual members are unable to give words to it, sometimes for fear of life.

Perhaps the deepest trauma for the Hindu society has been the destruction of its temples and the Hindus have gone through it in silence and preserve their memories in silence. Is it any wonder then when each time a temple is destroyed, the Hindu society is unable to raise its voice?

The language of trauma is silence. For prolonged and overwhelming trauma, the silence is that much greater, deep rooted and lodged in our psyche. Silence is the tool by which trans-generational trauma is carried forward as Elie Wiesel said and is the keeper of our memories. Does that mean then for Hindus regeneration of their civilization will take place by breaking this wall of silence and need a healing touch? Till we find and soothe that raw nerve, as a society, will we find the peace within and the momentum to move forward?

I wonder how did the early Hindus react to witnessing of the destruction of their temples? It is not very difficult to imagine. Possibly it was shock and denial in the beginning that gradually gave away to resignation, a sense of helplessness and shame. When the number of temples desecrated reached thousands, the sense of what that led to is not so difficult to grasp. The horror of it would be stored within similar to discovering the Gulag in Russia, the famines that killed millions and the holocaust that killed millions in gas chambers.

When temples were destroyed in Kashmir, the Hindus in rest of India kept silent. I found no articles, no debates, no intellectuals discussing it. Today, when a temple is desecrated in Delhi, the silence of it is deafening. The roots of that silence lie in the trans-generational trauma living in the Hindu psyche described in my book ‘The Infidel Next Door’.

Today, we need men of action who will speak with courage about breaking this silence. We need men who are not afraid of confronting the past but who become the voice of a persecuted race that reminds them that once they were not slaves but masters of their fate. We need men who can rouse the sleeping conscience in our people and create an intellectual minority, however small, that creates a movement destroying the stagnant society we have become.

Deep inside our society there is a fault line, an opening that is now coming out in the open challenging our beliefs. The humiliation that resided deep within now refuses to be there anymore. The Hindu of today is also a Hindu with a choice who selects his own leaders, his own government and calls the country his own like he could never do before in his history. Should he not extend that to his religion for which he has been persecuted like followers of perhaps no other faith in human history?

Rajat Mitra
Psychologist and Author of ‘The Infidel Next Door’

Link for my book ‘The Infidel Next Door’ on Amazon.in
https://www.amazon.in/InfidelNextDoorRa ... 293&sr=8-1

The book is also available through the following link https://www.garudabooks.com/the-infidel-next-door/

Contact Book Club of India via following email bookclubofindia@gmail.com for delivery of overseas orders of the book.

The book is also available at select book stores like Bahrisons.

Link for the book for buying overseas
https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Search ... &kn=&isbn=


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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Karan M » 04 Jul 2019 15:11

In the past, any such attack on Hindu places of worship was met by retaliation. Local leaders, community groups would band together and resist and hence a state of detente existed.

The British disarmed Hindus. To some degree they did take harsh action to stabilize law and order against all communities, but mostly to protect their own turf from rebellions.

The Indian state inherited the British system, the Hindus remain disarmed, with many traditional groups not even having access to the same weapons/martial knowledge their ancestors had, the caste-family networks that brought numbers to help them no longer exist and the state is not doing its bit in terms of protecting them either.

Therein lies the disconnect. Claiming "stop watching Netflix first then Modi jee will stop attacks on temples" is beyond ridiculous. Modi et al were elected in part in 2014, to use the state to prevent attacks on Hindus, stop the blatant Hinduphobia and also, take action against the tukde tukde gang. 2014-19 was spent on welfare and other programs, very little movement on the other points, riots/public disturbance from the INC-Left group continued unabated and unpunished, Modi won the 2019 elections, analyst consensus was welfare did the trick. Great. So how much time is required before he does take action on the other aspects?

If not, and it is not a priority for his Govt he should man up and state it. Then the public can have clear expectations and vote for other politicians who push for a hardline stance on the matter & not vikas if latter is Modis primary objective. The problem is the disconnect between what has been said by the BJP in umpteen speeches in years past & what's been happening on the ground. And its beyond tiresome to see the BJP PR meme masters in social media, TV, every other outreach channel actually sit & polarize opinion further & keep whining about attacks on their workers, Hindus in general when they themselves are in power, and are still adeptly playing the role of victim. If they can't or won't defend themselves, on what grounds do they claim to defend those who voted for them? Also, the near complete silence of BJP's voluble MLAs on the temple attack and umpteen other instances of low level jihadi violence against Hindus. Again, its hard not to draw a connect between Modi's admins sudden "we have extra Haj quota/x crores for minorities" stuff and all this. Wasn't this the same guy stating about how in Gujarat he would not stand for discriminatory quotas and what not? Seriously, what is with the seat of power in Delhi, that it changes everyone?

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby abhijitm » 04 Jul 2019 15:44

what I think is Modi must have supressed the BJP backlash because he wants to win 'vishwas' of muslims in next 5 years. A futile and unncesessary goal IMHO. I just hope he doesn't get consumed in his own delusion and start going extra mile to appease the actions which should not be.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Manish_Sharma » 04 Jul 2019 15:45

Karan M wrote:In the past, any such attack on Hindu places of worship was met by retaliation.

The British disarmed Hindus. To some degree they did take harsh action to stabilize law and order against all communities, but mostly to protect their own turf from rebellions....


Even before that a_gupta types todarmals had Hindus under grip... They always pose as cooler heads and pssssssst leak/fizzle out energy...

When Marathas reached Varanasi and proceeded to dismantle the mosque it was these types of Cooler Heads Deep Thinkers who persuaded the Marathas to leave Mosque as it is otherwise late muslims will retaliate, so a micro part was turned into Kashi Vishwanath Temple which looks pathetic compared to huge mosque...

So fatigue had set in even before brishit...

-------------------

Manish Ji, no such references to A Gupta please. All said and done he is a long time member and we can disagree civilly.

Edited: Karan M

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Karan M » 04 Jul 2019 15:52

I am just fed up of the janus faced gyan being peddled by BJP reps themselves. Start acting like you are in power and man up. Its been 5 years now and they are still sitting and wailing about how their karyakartas are being killed, Hindu this, Mamta that, this one that. You were elected to fix L&O, fix it. If you can't, then admit it. They have CBI, NIA and an alphabet soup of agencies at their beck and call.

Havent done much to fix those agencies and hardly a day goes by without some avoidable controversy or the other. I was hoping that the manner in which NIA went about arresting some murderous crooks would be the norm. Then Delhi happens, and out of a mob of 300 people some 2-3 are arrested, and only after severe public outrage, 2-3 BJP guys turn up sheepishly, looking over their shoulder as if they might get in some trouble if they say/do something. There are umpteen ways in which biased media organizations, inciters could have been or even be taken to task by now. So far, ads have been stopped for 3 newspapers. :lol: This is the "action" undertaken. Even ABVs admin would have laughed at the current folks given what they did post Tehelka to set the same set of folks to rights. Does anyone think NBJP nexus was any less during that time?

Then there is the manner in which GOI agencies are passing the buck. Take the recent fracas over disability pensions, and the complete cack handed manner in which both Army, Fin Min have handled it. If you are in power, and have the mandate act like it. The Procurement process is now overseen by NSA in part, and RM's role has been severely downsized. What locus standi does Rajnath have to push the issue? Hilariously, poor guy stands up in Parliament to say he is looking into it, promptly bypassing him, FM says MOD suggested this, ADGPI sends out message saying we are doubling down, veterans are outraged, another avoidable mess set up, BJP spokes goes on TV puts oar in it even more.

Then there is talk of inheritance tax, because it is seen as "pro-poor" tomorrow. Seriously? These are the kind of "revolutionary" governance measures being talked of? Why are responses not given to nip such rumors in the bud. Babus continue to rule the roost and I am yet to see any substantive reforms in the few sectors i track. This is GOI v2.0. The "we are kids, this is the first time we are ruling after 15 years" excuse is also not there.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby pankajs » 04 Jul 2019 15:59

I don't know the process or criteria for nomination for such exalted status but going with the current context/angst it would seem it was the MP's action or rather their inaction. As Ramanji pointed out the silence from the BJP MP's from Delhi could not be but a clampdown from the top!

Keeping the above in mind, Mudi is the biggest Todarmal/Jaichand or whatever ... IF one is searching for one.

Start with this Lok sabha speech "... saab ka vishvash". That is what he thinks his mandate is.
Last edited by pankajs on 04 Jul 2019 16:04, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Karan M » 04 Jul 2019 16:03

Again, please stop with the Todarmal/Jaichand etc stuff. Such claims do not contribute positively to the debate.

Point is if he is only about sab ka vikas then he should ask his own party spokes to stop whining about Hindu victimhood, BJP victimhood etc and accept it. Make the position clear. Right now, its "running with the hares and hunting with the hounds". Ironically, the same spokes turn into sissies when they confront situations on the ground. Either that, or its some long drawn chanakyan ploy to do everything secretly without drawing any attention to it.

Flaw with that policy is your opponent will not give you time. They are out to incite riots.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby A_Gupta » 04 Jul 2019 16:54

Those of you that have concrete proposals of what to do are not indulging in Rhona-Dhona. Those who want some unspecified muscular action most certainly are. Is BRF is meant for such mental therapy? What is strategy? Going boo-hoo, Mudi this, Mudi that?
You specific guys, look in the mirror to see Todarmals and the like.

PS: very revealing how just an ask to remember for five years the "strategies" proposed here made some uncomfortable (and others not at all).
Last edited by A_Gupta on 04 Jul 2019 17:09, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Manish_Sharma » 04 Jul 2019 16:57

Here's an explanation:
https://www.facebook.com/Rashtradharaa/ ... 130443171/

Don't know his name but he gets to bottom of it.

Translation:

Hindu and Muslims are vastly different communities structurwise.

For Example two men have a spat on road in Delhi, a Hindu man with Muslim man. Hindu man slaps Muslim man. So what happens? It will take a muslim at the most 10 minutes to reach nearby Madarssa Or mosque and will complain what happened to him. The mosque/madarssa will telephone/email jama masjid. Who have all the data of mosques and madarassas around that area. Telephone numbers, whatsApp groups. And in few hours you'll have 5000 to 10000 people gathered on road.

When pakistan was to be created it was UP muslims who voted 95% for pakistan, not karachi muslims! But still they remained here.

Now an aam Hindu doesn't understand how its possible over a small personal spat.

NOW REVERSE THE SITUATION :

A Muslim man slaps Hindu, so Hindu goes to Pujari of Temple the Pujari will say, "I am running a police station? Go to Police, why come to Temple". Now Hindu man goes to a Corporator or MLA they'll say same thing "...its your personal fight, you deal with it why come to us?" Then Hindu man goes to Vishwa Hindu Parishad and complains and they'll say "...ok we'll help, lets see who it is, but wait let our Prabhari come , Sachiv (Secretary) come..." The Prabhari/Secretary comes and asks what the hullaballoo is about, is there some demonstration? Some event? Media is coming? HE WILL START CALCULATION ABOUT HIS OWN BENEFITS. If I take action would it bring publicity OR not, in society people will see me as a potent leader or not.

THIS TYPE OF CALCULATION ISN'T THERE IN MUSLIM LEADERS. THEY HAVE NO CONFUSION. THEY HAVE CLEAR PATH THAT THIS IS THE COURSE OF ACTION, WITH WHICH UNFORTUNATELY HINDU LEADERS ARE PLAGUED.

On Friday Jumma, 1 O' Clock they go for Namaz but Namaz only starts 1:30, so for half an hour the maulvi gives them Takhrir that how to react against current political environment and happenings.

This guidance is missing in Hindu Temples. So Hindus remain directionless. Chaotic!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

^ This is about Translation of 1st 60% of video.


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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby pankajs » 04 Jul 2019 18:38

https://twitter.com/ShekharGupta/status ... 8963301376
Shekhar Gupta @ShekharGupta
Correct. Indira Gandhi onwards, Congress outsourced the responsibility to intellectuals of the Left. Over time, the relationship became symbiotic. Left intelligentsia fattened on the Cong establishment which, in turn, relied on it for ideas. Both are lost for now.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby CRamS » 04 Jul 2019 18:45

Guys, I have a question. Since when did this guy and his token "Hindu" wife who so scared of her fellow Hindus that she wanted to move out of India due to 'intolerance' under BJP, suddenly become a 'water super star' according to DDM?

https://twitter.com/soniandtv/status/11 ... 0637074432

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Karan M » 04 Jul 2019 18:55

A_Gupta wrote:PS: very revealing how just an ask to remember for five years the "strategies" proposed here made some uncomfortable (and others not at all).


So now you admit that, your ask for keeping the thread focused on 2024 was an effort to " shame" folks over their viewpoints and trying to play mind games? Great.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Manish_Sharma » 04 Jul 2019 19:02

^ vishnu som ndtv is being quoted here. Whose channel and anchor thrown out Sambit patra?

And dr. shiv is criticizing brf is a Club? What a farce !

In answer to Sanku more than decade ago shiv as moderator told him bluntly "...brf is a private club like it or not... "
I had quoted that post when shiv returned from unzhawala forum.

:rotfl:
shiv is saying unzhawala is most knowledgeable no one on brf can match.

It's typical ndtv behavior Democracy tolerance is only upto the point as it suits them.

burkhaNDTV predicted 2007 gujarat elections loss for Modi, when Modi won despite ndtv predictions Burkha called all Gujaratis as EFFETE people.

The quality of posts is highest now on brf.

Ramana ji did hard detective work and found ARTILLERY barrel bursting cause. Jai and indraneel wrote amazing articles on Tejas Mk. 2

Karan M was one man force during Pouring out data during Balakot strike and Abhinandan killing F16.

Tsarkar ji Pouring his wisdom in forum.

How Suraj wrote brilliant posts on election data analysis during GE 2019.

shiv has forgotten how he and gang hounded out Shri Arun_S?

But I am not surprised you choosing vishnuNDTV as defense.

He was crying against IAF for wasting LM's 25 million dollars during mmrca trials and not choosing f16. When countered he labeled those posts as attacks...

He was also begging here people to like his Twitter and other posts so his carrier gets advanced through BRF.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Manish_Sharma » 04 Jul 2019 19:05

CRamS wrote:Guys, I have a question. Since when did this guy and his token "Hindu" wife who so scared of her fellow Hindus that she wanted to move out of India due to 'intolerance' under BJP, suddenly become a 'water super star' according to DDM?

https://twitter.com/soniandtv/status/11 ... 0637074432


Please write name amir khan and NDTV, otherwise it becomes clickbait promotion for advancement of urban naxal accounts

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Karan M » 04 Jul 2019 20:10



With due respect to Shiv, several of us remember it differently.

BRaman was asked for proof by some members about his theory around narco terror funding the bulk of the Pak military apparatus. He got offended that he was being asked for sources as I remember (its been many years) and there were testy exchanges. His participation in the forum declined thereafter.

Then Mr Raman was offended by the discussion of Islamism and Islamists on the forum, which Shiv, might have forgotten that he himself started, correctly (IMHO) assessing that ignoring these aspects of the Pakistani state was making ourselves wilfully blind in our analysis. Mr Raman also disliked the thought of BJP coming to power. Before he passed away, he made a note "elect Modi, he may not be perfect but he will be a necessary change" or words to that effect. Vindication for BRF?

Next, Mr Som. Vishnu had/has a huge fan club on the forum for his pro IAF or IAF inside scoop articles. But he wasn't satisfied with that as I recall. He took umbrage at a certain BRF members references to his employer NDTV/his colleagues, brought up references to legal action etc. That member also happened to be a lawyer and did not take it well. BRF moderators again interceded and brought the matter to a close. Several BRF members are not, for multiple reasons, fans of NDTV. We, the moderators cannot do anything about that. What we can & will do, is prevent BRF from becoming a squabbling ground of parties who expose the forum to unnecessary action.

Net, I don't regard either of these discussions to be particularly instructive of what we must and should do.

Twitter is an outrage factory, good for getting information but as the above "discussion" shows people are quite capable of leaving out salient bits of information.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Karan M » 04 Jul 2019 20:23

This sort of mass mobilization is truly an issue, and given the fact our police forces are often pathetically undermanned, cannot be countered unless firearms are used. That brings in a whole new problematic dimension to the subject. Can't speak for others, but around the recent Babri court verdict and thereafter, know of several personal accounts where many people I know (and I myself) had to literally "leg" it from certain roads/streets because post Friday prayers huge crowds had gathered and were very inclined to rowdy behavior.



Manish_Sharma wrote:Here's an explanation:
https://www.facebook.com/Rashtradharaa/ ... 130443171/

Don't know his name but he gets to bottom of it.

Translation:

Hindu and Muslims are vastly different communities structurwise.

For Example two men have a spat on road in Delhi, a Hindu man with Muslim man. Hindu man slaps Muslim man. So what happens? It will take a muslim at the most 10 minutes to reach nearby Madarssa Or mosque and will complain what happened to him. The mosque/madarssa will telephone/email jama masjid. Who have all the data of mosques and madarassas around that area. Telephone numbers, whatsApp groups. And in few hours you'll have 5000 to 10000 people gathered on road.

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Re: 2019 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Postby Karan M » 04 Jul 2019 22:32

All the anger on social media does appear to have had an effect.

9 arrested. Now, let's see follow up.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.huffingt ... 8140ed9f6/


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