Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby sudeepj » 05 Aug 2019 22:02

khan wrote:
Amber G. wrote:- Article 370 made it necessary for the centre to get the state legislature's approval for introducing any policies or constitutional powers to the state.​ This in turn means that the Governor, who is being treated as the 'State' govt at the moment, was able to move the resolution to the President.


Does this mean if Modi (or a later Congress Government) wants to ram through any other substantial Constitutional Amendment dealing with say distribution of power between Center & States, they can:

1. Get it approved by 2/3 majority in Parliament.

2. Declare President rule in enough states so that 1/2 the state legislatures or Governors in states with Presidents rule rubber stamp the Amendment.

And viola voila - the constitution is changed. Does this seem right?

To me, these types of games are the difference between a serious country like India & a banana republic like Pakistan.


You cant just declare presidents rule in states without cause any more. Please see the established case law about use of 356 now.

370 itself had a provision that the president can promulgate any law related to 370 as applicable in concurrence with the state govt. 370 has not been repealed, but all of its provisions have been made infructuous or invalid. We still have a 370. :twisted:

Apropos the UT and division issue, Andhra was divided into two without the concurrence of the state assembly. Here, the govt. has gone farther and 'demoted' the state. We shall see what happens.

If one puts aside the complicated constitutional issues, prima facie, this step was long needed as the valley politicians had pissed in the punch bowl and ruined democracy there. How can one be part of a vast ethnic cleansing, deny all kinds of rights to minorities and historically oppressed, and still argue that they are doing it democratically? And any step to stop these things is actually undemocratic

The Kashmir boil long needed a lansing and I hope these steps by the union perform the requisite disinfection of the polity of that state.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby vijayk » 05 Aug 2019 22:07

Aditya Raj Kaul
@AdityaRajKaul
·
5h
Congress Chief Whip Bhuvaneshwar Kalita quits party over Article 370 stand. Says, he was asked by party to issue Whip but this is against the mood and emotions of the nation. Says he quits the party as the party is on way towards destruction. Huge. Embarrassment for Congress.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby pankajs » 05 Aug 2019 22:13

Folks how does one directly link to the embedded twitter videos here.

DO WATCH this piece from Bakistan of their previous High commissioner to India.
https://twitter.com/centerofright/statu ... 5142591493
Vijay @centerofright
Most Interesting observation by Pak news channel on perils of Trump’s mediation

And here we had folks on full RR mode on Trumps "mediation" offer.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby A Nandy » 05 Aug 2019 22:31

twitter:
This @ShashiTharoor is looking so shocked in LS as if someone killed his wife or something.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby UlanBatori » 05 Aug 2019 22:37

Wow! What about the Bills passed by RS and headed for LS? From which side? OK, from UndieTeeVee:
Special status to Jammu and Kashmir under Article 370 of the Constitution has been removed by a presidential order that would come into force "at once", Home Minister Amit Shah said in parliament today, announcing the most far-reaching move on the state in nearly seven decades. The announcement came after Prime Minister Narendra Modi held a meeting of his cabinet at his house this morning. Amit Shah also introduced a bill to bifurcate Jammu and Kashmir into two union territories, which was passed in the Rajya Sabha. Prepping for any trouble in the state after the announcement, the centre moved 8,000 paramilitary troops from different parts of the country to Kashmir, in addition to nearly 35,000 personnel moved in the past week.
Here are the 10 latest developments in this big story:

Article 370 gave Jammu and Kashmir its own constitution and decision-making rights for all matters barring defence, communications and foreign affairs. Its removal ends special status for Kashmir, which was key to its accession to India in 1947.
Article 370 made it necessary for the centre to get the state legislature's approval for introducing any policies or constitutional powers to the state.
In a proposed law, which has cleared the Rajya Sabha and will need the Lok Sabha's approval, Jammu and Kashmir will cease to be a state and become two union territories with two Lieutenant Governors. Ladakh will be a Union Territory without a legislature and Jammu and Kashmir will have a legislature.
The government's huge step followed a massive build-up of troops in the sensitive Kashmir Valley and a night where senior leaders including former Chief Ministers Omar Abdullah and Mehbooba Mufti were placed under house arrest.
Internet and phone lines were forced out of service in parts of Jammu and Kashmir. All educational institutions and offices are closed and groups have been banned from gathering in Kashmir and Jammu.
Thousands of paramilitary troops were sent to Kashmir last week after the government said it was cancelling the Amarnath Yatra, an annual pilgrimage, and asked tourists and outsiders to leave the state.
The cabinet met this morning at the home of PM Modi after which all ministers and the PM moved to parliament for Amit Shah's big announcement.
Arun Jaitley said in tweets: "A historical wrong has been undone today. Article 35A came through the back door without following the procedure under Article 368 of the Constitution of India. It had to go."
The government received support from parties like ally Shiv Sena and even from rival leaders like Chandrababu Naidu, Arvind Kejriwal and Mayawati. BJP ally Nitish Kumar's party was among those who opposed the move but helped by boycotting the vote.
Omar Abdullah said: "The government of India (GOI)'s unilateral and shocking decisions today are a total betrayal of the trust that the people of Jammu & Kashmir had reposed in India when the State acceded to it in 1947. The decisions will have far-reaching and dangerous consequences. This is an aggression against people of the State as had been warned by an all-parties meeting in Srinagar yesterday."

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby saip » 05 Aug 2019 23:06

Who is Shehla Rashid and why so much importance to her assinine tweet?

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby ArjunPandit » 05 Aug 2019 23:17

^^assuming a gen pooch
1. She's JNU students union leader who shot into prominence after she took care of affairs of JNUSU after khalid and kanhaiya were in Jail during 2016 protests
2. She is an engineer from NIT Srinagar and worked for few months in HCL i guess to realize that she's not cut for an honest and hardworking life so she went to the next obvious place in India, apart from Tihad/Gb road, JNU
3. She proved quite articulate and instantly became the doyen of Leli circuit and being a fast kashmiri with pics of tshirts 'akeli azad awara' cut across desperate aaptards who connected with her 'appeal'
4. given that her phd was done and no other avenue of free income and stay, tragedy of asifa offered her unique opportunity and she started a crowdfunding campaign for asifa.
5. WHile she claimed all money was given to the family of asifa, she had a makeover and an expensive vacation IIRC from twitter
6. Then she realized she can make it large, she can be like mehbooba mufti with her ears, so she formed a political party with who else shah faesal (i guess the same guy who married tina dabi the IAS topper of that batch, she was not from general and scored quite high in interview). Shah faesal had resigned and incidentally his resignation has not been accepted yet. To protect her years, she did not forget to wear shawl in form of hijab etc
8. 23 may happened
7. During sometime between 5-8 she did complete her PHD and also blocked me on twitter for rubbing (dont recollecte if it was phd or 23rd may) or may be they had a wa group where i became (in)famous so i was dependent upon screenshots.
Why to her assinine tweet..i'd say celebration...or just rubbing it in
before you had other ideas, I had nothing for her apart from the fact that she claimed to be an intellectual, was leeching on taxpayers money and was seen in JNU when bharat tere tukade honge. was shouted...

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby saip » 05 Aug 2019 23:24

That is a lot. Thank a lot ArjunPandit.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Jay » 05 Aug 2019 23:28

pankajs wrote:
vijayk wrote:

I too had the same view. Now let me talk about another case which has offended folks on this forum and RW in general. Some still crib about it till date.

Modi's brief vizit to Na-awaz in Lahore too was for the same purpose. I have stated it repeatedly before and will state it again. Modi's visit was to assure our international partners that India was open to peace with bakistan provided certain ground rules were met even when he fully knew Na-awaz could not deliver it and Na-Pak army wouldn't allow it! Modi did not go to Lahore out of desperation or romanticism or pragmatism. None of that! He just went there to demonstrate his willingness to bat for peace in the region.


Not only that, but I have a feeling that BJP's acceptance of Congress's decision of bifurcating erstwhile AP, into two states in a closed parliamentary session, essentially railroading the bifurcation, is to let a precedent be set and use this at an opportune time when needed. Today was the day.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby vijayk » 06 Aug 2019 00:26

^^ Wouldn't go that far. Advaniji was mentally defeated by $onia and infiltrated/sabotaged by scums like Sudheendra Kulkarni. BJP had no teeth under Advaniji

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Ashokk » 06 Aug 2019 00:28

Parliament illuminated after J&K Reorganisation Bill was passed in the Rajya Sabha today
Image

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Uttam » 06 Aug 2019 00:51

A quick question to constitutional expects if they are around. The RS vote was 125 v 61. That is 67.20% (=125/186) of the house. Can this be considered greater than 2/3 and therefore a constitutional amendment? Or does it need to be introduced as a constitutional amendment and then a 2/3 majority makes it one?

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Jayram » 06 Aug 2019 00:56

Hope this means the beginning of the long road back for Kashmiri Pundits to get back to their rightful land and home. A travesty and shameful legacy of our past governments(not this one) ineptitude and grovelling for votes.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Suraj » 06 Aug 2019 01:02

Uttam wrote:A quick question to constitutional expects if they are around. The RS vote was 125 v 61. That is 67.20% (=125/186) of the house. Can this be considered greater than 2/3 and therefore a constitutional amendment? Or does it need to be introduced as a constitutional amendment and then a 2/3 majority makes it one?

It doesn't take a constitutional amendment to bifurcate a state, since the organization of states is not established by constitution, but by legislative prerogative. The 2014 AP Reorganization Act similarly was an Act of Parliament and not a Constitutional Amendment. Since J&K doesn't operate under standard procedure of constitution, the first step was for the President to announce the annulment of Art 370 so the standard procedure could be applied.
Article 3
Formation of new States and alteration of areas, boundaries or names of existing States: Parliament may by law
(a) form a new State by separation of territory from any State or by uniting two or more States or parts of States or by uniting any territory to a part of any State;
(b) increase the area of any State;
(c) diminish the area of any State;
(d) alter the boundaries of any State;
(e) alter the name of any State; Provided that no Bill for the purpose shall be introduced in either House of Parliament except on the recommendation of the President and unless, where the proposal contained in the Bill affects the area, boundaries or name of any of the States, the Bill has been referred by the President to the Legislature of that State for expressing its views thereon within such period as may be specified in the reference or within such further period as the President may allow and the period so specified or allowed has expired Explanation I In this article, in clauses (a) to (e), State includes a Union territory, but in the proviso, State does not include a Union territory Explanation II The power conferred on Parliament by clause (a) includes the power to form a new State or Union territory by uniting a part of any State or Union territory to any other State or Union territory

Amendments made be needed later for things like Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha representation counts.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby disha » 06 Aug 2019 01:02

Uttam wrote:A quick question to constitutional expects if they are around. The RS vote was 125 v 61. That is 67.20% (=125/186) of the house. Can this be considered greater than 2/3 and therefore a constitutional amendment? Or does it need to be introduced as a constitutional amendment and then a 2/3 majority makes it one?


A bill needs to be introduced as constituent amendment. One cannot get votes first and then retro-actively decide under which clause the bill is to be introduced.

Also abrogation of clause 35A and withdrawal of all clauses under 370 (except section 1 under which it was introduced) as a presidential ordinance. In a nutshell, GOI abrogated article 370 using article 370 itself.

Presidential ordinance were issued under section 1 to amend 370 in the past and hence has both defacto and dejure basis to amend 370 to abrogate 370 itself.

There will be mild discussion on how come President of GOI can issue ordinance without consulting the government of J&K. Well the current government of J&K is presided by the Governor and the governor has already provided his consulting to President.

---

This one was a big masterstroke in play, the game was being setup since 2014/2015.

First was the move where BJP+PDP got together to run the J&K government. It was doomed to fail. However BJP got to know the power brokers in the play in J&K and can reach to them directly bypassing Mufti-Abdullah-Geelani family. This is important as Kashmir is integrated back into India.

Second move was provided by people of India for giving Modi a resounding victory and further cutting off the legs of PDP (they lost all LS seats in Cashmere). BJP won 2 seats in Jammu and 1 in Ladakh.

Third move was setting the opposition in disarray. In fact Congress party itself went on a split today in RS when its chief whip resigned in protest of CONGoon stand on J&K.

Fourth was the intricate use of the clauses to abrogate 370. At this point, with legislative and executive backing., Judiciary can do nothing. 370 was introduced as a backdoor and it got kicked out of front door. All the pseudo-liberal and tukde-tukde gang cannot ask SC to bring back article 370. Since they are *not* the agreived party! Cashmeres can ask for special status under 370 or they can say they will secede. Either way, they cannot expect SC to give Cashmeres special status while Jammu and Ladakh do not want that special status! Neither can SC entertain a situation where it is seen complicit in breaking the constitution (one cannot have a separate constitution for a state). If they do that, we have states all over India who can claim bigger right than Cashmeres on their own separate constitution.

So at this point SC role is limited.

And there is no need for constitutional amendment. Only article 370 was amended and for that one does not need 2/3rd vote.
Last edited by disha on 06 Aug 2019 01:19, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Manny » 06 Aug 2019 01:19

I've not been here for a long time!

Mubarak Ho! Mubarak to all patriots! :)

Manny

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Y. Kanan » 06 Aug 2019 01:22

Finally! Rather shameful we only had the courage to do this now, 70 years too late. Time to implement the China solution: displace the natives with good loyal citizens and in a few generations, no more Kashmir problem.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Uttam » 06 Aug 2019 01:35

@disha and @suraj, Thank you for very nice explanations.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby CRamS » 06 Aug 2019 01:41

ArjunPandit,

Also, don't forget that both Sheila Rashid and Rana Ayyub are well funded from outside. If you look at their general demeanor, clothing style, hair-dos etc, they are not cheap, pretty expensive stuff. And Rana Ayyub always seems to be in Europe or US tweeting and pontificating against India from there. So they are compensated handsomely from outside. They are prime examples of what ModiJi calls as "5 star activists" more so Rana Ayyub, Saba Naqvi, Omar Abdullah's keep, Burka bibi etc., than say Sheila Rashid who has more Jihadi tendencies for sure.
Last edited by CRamS on 06 Aug 2019 04:21, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Trikaal » 06 Aug 2019 01:50

I can tell you from 1st hand sources that the people of Jammu celebrated this news by distributing sweets and bursting crackers. Hopefully, this move will result in India Inc investing heavily in the state UT and creating jobs for the local youths, especially in poorer regions like Doda, Rajouri, and Poonch. Ladakh should also now be able to become a major tourist destination, without the baggage of J&K.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby kit » 06 Aug 2019 01:52

A Nandy wrote:twitter:
This @ShashiTharoor is looking so shocked in LS as if someone killed his wife or something.


ha, he knows who killed his wife !! :roll:

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby g.sarkar » 06 Aug 2019 02:59

In this commotion where is Pappuji? Where is Pujya Damadji? Where is Rajmataji? Pappuji is most probably in Thailand, but where is everyone else? There is not a peep from them. Come back I miss you.
Gautam

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby nachiket » 06 Aug 2019 03:21

pankajs wrote:https://twitter.com/centerofright/statu ... 5142591493
Most Interesting observation by Pak news channel on perils of Trump’s mediation
And here we had folks on full RR mode on Trumps "mediation" offer.

Yes the meltdown some folks on BRF had after the Trump mediation episode is looking even funnier now.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby KLNMurthy » 06 Aug 2019 03:47

pankajs wrote:I have mixed opinion on this guy even though he is opposed to Modi. Don't think he is a libtard.

https://twitter.com/VDPAssociates/statu ... 2962312192
VDPAssociates @VDPAssociates

BJD,AIADMK have long been in favor of removing Article 370 irrespective of their ties with BJP but how come parties like BSP,TDP,JD(S) support the government after fighting Loksabha election on intense anti BJP platform?

Reason is that they did not want to cede the nationalist space to the BJP in their respective regions. They are not as stupid nor thoroughly infiltrated by BIF. Simple!

Everyone here knows that when China attacked in 1962, DMK ended its secessionist agitation. Everyone praised their patriotism and good judgment.

Now I wonder if a phone call went from Delhi deep state to Anna, telling him it is time to decide how serious he is about seceding, and if he is ready for the Army to become a long-term son-in-law of TN.

I am quite sure calls went out to all the opposition leaders before today: they can make constitution-geenstitution noises but they have to fall in line because national territorial integrity and future are in peril.

Except J&K and run-up to China War, India never hesitated when India itself is in peril. Strictly speaking, op Polo, Vijay (Goa), annexation of Sikkim etc etc were alm questionable, not to speak of ops in NE. But national defense and security comes first.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Muppalla » 06 Aug 2019 04:16

Anujan wrote:^^^^
Actually not quite true. 370 is more nuanced and very complicated. I dont claim to be an expert on it.




All in all a kichdi manoeuver. Let's see if it stands the test of the courts.


Courts can't do much. The AP reorganization bill is still in Supreme Court. Harish Salve on NDTV explained it very well. Even Manu Singhvi concedes that not much can come from courts.

Next step is president's rule in Kerala and declare Kannur as UT with no Assembly. :rotfl:

The template to play with demographics is all set now. With NRC on the horizon and with removing blackmailable democracy for the separatist minding population we are now in a new India.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby ShyamSP » 06 Aug 2019 05:38

Muppalla wrote:
Anujan wrote:^^^^
Actually not quite true. 370 is more nuanced and very complicated. I dont claim to be an expert on it.




All in all a kichdi manoeuver. Let's see if it stands the test of the courts.


Courts can't do much. The AP reorganization bill is still in Supreme Court. Harish Salve on NDTV explained it very well. Even Manu Singhvi concedes that not much can come from courts.

Next step is president's rule in Kerala and declare Kannur as UT with no Assembly. :rotfl:

The template to play with demographics is all set now. With NRC on the horizon and with removing blackmailable democracy for the separatist minding population we are now in a new India.


AP split has been template for any narrative against JK split. They drove it with such emotion and confusion, this JK reorg or any other future reorgs became easy. PDP MPs noise was flat compared to pepper spray noise of AP MPs. In Rajyasabha they used AP guys to put against Chidu/Azad/Congi guys. They can use how AP constitutional provisions annulled without courts entertaining suits.

JK reorg complete and permanent with AP providing counter against any opposition to it. Only exceptions are terrorism, Pak, POK which are not in immediate control.

Since they got 2/3 majorities for the bills, they should permanently seal with generic bill that any provisions that block authority of parliament and its approved constitution are null and void to erase any fine prints in any non-fundamental articles and provisions.
Last edited by ShyamSP on 06 Aug 2019 05:40, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Sandrokottos » 06 Aug 2019 05:39

Muppalla wrote:Next step is president's rule in Kerala and declare Kannur as UT with no Assembly. :rotfl:


Aye, you can see the fear in their eyes. They can't believe what has happened and are horrified by its implications for their own socialist mecca. Till now they believed they can survive in their bastions, playing political games with their controlled oppositions, brandishing their pathetic revolution against this new India. Now they know what the end game would be. It would not be their perpetual defiance that remains, but the extermination of their entire political ecosystem. Now they have the fear of GOD in them. It is positively delicious :twisted:

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby vijayk » 06 Aug 2019 06:09

Sandrokottos wrote:
Muppalla wrote:Next step is president's rule in Kerala and declare Kannur as UT with no Assembly. :rotfl:


Aye, you can see the fear in their eyes. They can't believe what has happened and are horrified by its implications for their own socialist mecca. Till now they believed they can survive in their bastions, playing political games with their controlled oppositions, brandishing their pathetic revolution against this new India. Now they know what the end game would be. It would not be their perpetual defiance that remains, but the extermination of their entire political ecosystem. Now they have the fear of GOD in them. It is positively delicious :twisted:


which shows? can you give links? would like to see the fear in their eyes.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Sandrokottos » 06 Aug 2019 06:32

vijayk wrote:which shows? can you give links? would like to see the fear in their eyes.


Local mallu channels. Every commie/sickular guest they have is with dilated eyes and erratic body language, with apocalyptic language to boot. They keep harping about how this would have dire consequences (like they care two sh!ts what happens to J&K), but what they are really thinking about are consequences for them and their socialist paradise. :rotfl:


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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Rishi_Tri » 06 Aug 2019 07:05

A_Gupta wrote:Will there be a court challenge?
https://indconlawphil.wordpress.com/201 ... al-issues/


Familiar people already planning legal challenge. But for once, I have full faith in courts and the process that shall examine all angles, listen to all sides, take considered time, defer judgements, not deliver judgements, .. and so on.. Har Har Mahadev

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby A_Gupta » 06 Aug 2019 07:09

The danger is if the Supreme Court issued a stay order while it listens to arguments, deliberates, etc.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby SriKumar » 06 Aug 2019 07:14

Rishi_Tri wrote:
A_Gupta wrote:Will there be a court challenge?
https://indconlawphil.wordpress.com/201 ... al-issues/


Familiar people already planning legal challenge. But for once, I have full faith in courts and the process that shall examine all angles, listen to all sides, take considered time, defer judgements, not deliver judgements, .. and so on.. Har Har Mahadev
I dont have proof for this but I am willing to bet that Modi would have consulted or atleast apprised the CJI on the matter. Modi, being the meticulous planner he is, would have involved the judiciary on something as momentous as this, and get their pulse, in a discreet manner. Judiciary is a pillar in the Indian democracy, and for that reason alone I think (my belief only, no proof I got) that Modi would have consulted the top man. In spite of everything, I think he respects the Supreme Court, which did clear him in the years-long Godhra case . Their response to the challenges filed should give some indication of whether they were in the dark and miffed. (By the way, I checked out the 'Charvaha Vidyala'. It even has an charvaha anthem :D ).

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby ShyamSP » 06 Aug 2019 07:31

A_Gupta wrote:The danger is if the Supreme Court issued a stay order while it listens to arguments, deliberates, etc.


Court is dead-end. Legislative authority in these matters are supreme. They can't stay the bill or presidential order passed through constitutional process. At most they can refer back to its President or parliament.

https://www.thehansindia.com/posts/inde ... ion/274173
The bifurcation process is complete. The two states are on their own. As the apex court bench itself wondered, is it necessary to hear the case?

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby hanumadu » 06 Aug 2019 07:35

A_Gupta wrote:The danger is if the Supreme Court issued a stay order while it listens to arguments, deliberates, etc.


I don't think people will take it lying down if the SC throws a spanner now.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Philip » 06 Aug 2019 08:01

From all reports, Art.370 was only temporary and a steady dilution of it powers in time ,was even mentioned by Nehru .

Going through media editorials , almost all broadly support this historic decision , a few only mildly questioning the modality of action. Even the Hindu says that Art. 370 led to," ..in practice an arrogance of power by a tiny Valley elite" leading to resentment over non- representation by those in Jammu and Ladakh.This also... " led to disaffection, separatism and stoking of these fires by Pakistan using cross-border terrorism". With the new Paki- US bonhomie and the masterplan of Gen.Bajwa to resume further violence in the state, it was urgent that the GOI acted decisively and did it! With one sweep of the sword sliced through the twin threats of Paki terror and the insidious conspiracies of the fissiparious traitors in the Kashmiri political elite.

Now anti-national elements, Kashmiri quislings and the perfidious Pakis will do their best to sabotage this historic decision eradicating an anomaly in our constitution, like a stone in our slipper.A ridculous situation where Kashmiri traders were buying up houses in Cochin's Jew Town of all places while no other Indian nationals could own a tiny patch of land in the Valley!

A brave, bold decision that deserves 3 huge hurrahs ( a special cheer for HM Amit Shah) and nation-wide celebrations ! Now to iron out the wrinkles that remain with every provision in our constitution and the rule of law, Indian not Kashmiri.

PS: Capt. Khan of the Paki team is holding urgent meeting with his military " crore commanders" to discuss and take military measures against India.We must be prepared for any mischief from the other side.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby A_Gupta » 06 Aug 2019 08:24

ShyamSP wrote:
A_Gupta wrote:The danger is if the Supreme Court issued a stay order while it listens to arguments, deliberates, etc.


Court is dead-end. Legislative authority in these matters are supreme. They can't stay the bill or presidential order passed through constitutional process. At most they can refer back to its President or parliament.

https://www.thehansindia.com/posts/inde ... ion/274173
The bifurcation process is complete. The two states are on their own. As the apex court bench itself wondered, is it necessary to hear the case?


Thanks, that is reassuring!

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby CRamS » 06 Aug 2019 08:51

I was scanning through the so called 'debates' in DDM. Some observations:

1. Led by Cong, there is a body of furious opposition to this move by BJP. Their arguments border on the pathetic

2. As usual, the opposition is only out of their hatred for BJP and ModiJI than anything else.

3. It is astonishing that nobody who opposes this move on the grounds of 'secularism' and 'betrayal of Kashmiri people' don't have in their conscience that 'secularism' was dead once the same "Kashmir people" committed ethnic cleansing of their Hindu brethren and actively colluded with TSP in the death of so many of our brave jawans and officers. It is shameful. I would be livid and betrayed if I were the kith and kin of one of our martyrs.

4. So as I expected a long time ago, in the coming days, it will be (unscrupulous Kashmir valley traitors + Cong-led opposition + TSP) Vs Indian govt (BJP/ModiJi)

5. Is there any possibility of the P5 taking this up in the security council and issuing any statement?

6. I noticed another ex IAF officer in the same mold as Ajai Shukla. He is Kapil Kak or whatever. He was frothing in his mouth and spewing bile in furious opposition to this move, berating BJP govt more like a Paki than an ex IAF officer

7. This is not a done deal IMO. Next several days after curfew is lifted, Mehbooba types are freed, and legal challenges are mounted within India etc, we will see how things are shaping up.

8. I wonder what the international reaction, read USA and P-5 will be? Will it even matter? One Congi on TimesNow was boasting that Sambit Patra will be back in 4 days despondent at UN reaction

9. Finally, the pigLeT terrorist factor. We still don't know what TSP is plotting. Its quite ironic the anger at this move by TSP and Kashmir valley traitors. If they don't believe in the Indian constitution as they keep howling, then why does anything that Indian govt does within the framework of that constitution bother them so much? :-).

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby venkat_r » 06 Aug 2019 10:01

By and larg there seems to be no opposition to the move, and seems like there is a plenty of support.

The people who oppose are also on non-issue topics, like house arrest and break the promise etc.. which are non entities to begin with, just give it couple of weeks for everyone to fall in line. Legally it should be a done deal once it moves through LS.

Some of the big names could go obscure, though it is going to be a tough pill to swallow for most of them for a few years. Old habits and thoughts die hard. Would be interesting to see the responses and next steps from Kashmir and Jammu people. No clarity, but this should give citizenship and rights to several people in Kashmir, who did not have it before, a very welcome step. In fact that is what I would love to this govt handle next, to set some standards across the country, but focusing on this issue, I would think this is going to mean a wealth of things for people of Jammu and Kashmir

1. Granting of citizenship’s or residency status for all people of Kashmir, this has to mean a lot for many people. Would like to see how GOI tackles this.
2. Better schooling and scholarships for all people
3. Hospitals and medical facilities, will help JK people esp for the kids, women and for lot of trauma victims
4. Most JK people who owned their land would see the real estate boom and would be able to see some wealth being made just like rest of India
5. Tourism picking up in few years

This is a historical step and kudos for Modi and Amit shah for going through with it, we might look back in 10 years and wonder how far we have come

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby manjgu » 06 Aug 2019 10:10

actually there is no judicial review of things like accession, re org of states etc. its in the constitution. those who are talking of SC intervenng etc, need to breathe some fresh air.


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