Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby abhijitm » 09 Aug 2019 16:52

We need someone from Shiv Sena in MEA when briefing about matters related to pakistan. Tell you these guys are the best trolls among all political parties in India. Over the years they have mastered the skill of getting under opposition skin. For the enemy they are like an itching skin rash on sensitive body part, appear without notice and just don't fade out. :D

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby arshyam » 09 Aug 2019 17:06

All this talk about the bakis not being able to afford an increase in their terror attacks on India is BS. They are just laying ground for some plausible deniability, which they could exploit at the next FATF meeting.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby UlanBatori » 09 Aug 2019 17:16

UBCN Anal-e-sys:

1. 370 scrap was always on wish-list of Yindootva. It was part of 2014 manifesto, IIRC. BJP won enough seats in J&K to form coalition govt. So it is 400% BS to claim that "People 'were not taken into confidence". Yes, they were, and they approved.

2. Right up to May 2019, lack of action on 370 was a major minus point against BJP. Yes, they did ask SC to remove 35A but ppl placed little faith in SC acting on something that touchy.

3. So what was the huge takleef? Takleef was indeed the MANNER in which it was done.

4. Paki/secessionist assumption was that GOI would do things like in UPA days: Wait for SC to deliver verdict. 50% chance that verdict would be favorable to status quo, another 99% chance that even it it was not favorable it would be challenged and STAYed. But MEANWHILE, they would ramp up violence in KV citing Indian attempts to reduce Sovirgnity of KV. So they were all set, prepared, with weapons and ammo and soosais all set up. Get a couple of terrorists shot, then have their funerals for more violence, etc etc. All this must have taken years of preparation and supplies and paid agints.

5. Instead, MAD FIRST asked tourists to get out, and closed schools. Lots of protest and ambush opportunities gone in a flash.
6. Then, total clampdown incl. phone and internet. Only MehBooba had cellphone access, presumably so that Raa could listen to instructions coming in.

7. Then, POW!!! Instead of 35A, the entire 370 was struck down, starting from Rajya Sabha where they thought they had a choke-hold.

8. Meanwhile, the expected ISI instructions to launch Spontaneous Demonstrations and Explosions could not reach their agints.

9. HERE IS THE UCN conclusion: In the past 4 days, Doval & Co have been very busy, unearthing arms and explosives hoards and other weapons. And listening to the secessionists squeal under kind interrogation. Hundreds of carefully-selected terrorists arrested. KV Polis power shattered by shifting hard-core terrorists from KV jails to UP jails. Entire secessionist enterprise getting rolled up right under the asses of MehBooba and Omar and Farooq. Searches revealing charges against Farooq & Co for bank scams.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Lisa » 09 Aug 2019 17:59

pankajs wrote:
Lisa wrote:Just Control P to print and the whole article will appear!

Didn't work for me on Firefox or Opera.


Sir, try Chrome

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby chetak » 09 Aug 2019 18:21

he has also taken PM niazi's begging bowl with him :mrgreen:

Pakistan Foreign Minister Qureshi visiting China to discuss Indo-Pak tensions


ISLAMABAD: Pakistan Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi on Friday dashed to China to discuss with the Chinese leadership Indo-Pak tensions after India revoked the special status of Jammu and Kashmir.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Arun.prabhu » 09 Aug 2019 18:57

Oh, and how has Uncle Sam been supporting Pakistan? Did they denounce India for the Balakote strikes or the aftermath? Did they blame India for Pulwama? Have they denounced India's abrogating article 370? They have cut down the yearly bribes to the Pakistani army, post Balakote, they appear to be installing trackers on F16s to monitor their use, they are sharing intelligence with us on terrorist movements and we with them, they turn a blind eye to our purchase of military hardware from any nation - surely, you remember the times less than two decades back when they sold weapon systems to the Pakistanis to maintain parity... I could go on.

Is America a firm Indian partisan? Well, no. For all that we're allies against the rise of China, we are not equals. America expects everyone to toe their line. The way to get them firmly into our court is to use buy influence in Washington DC with lobbyists. Our government doesn't do that. Our NRI population should be campaigning for whatever's best for India. Instead, they support Democrats, which party presidents Clinton and Obama ignored us and favored China.

And what is this story about UK-US wanting Pakistan to counter the spread of communism. You give the Americans and the English too much credit and our people too little. Do you know that our first nuclear reactors were built by the western powers? That America considered giving us nuclear weapon technology to counter China? That they were ready to send a carrier battle group in case the war with China continued? That they were involved with the cuban missile crisis and they made a decision to focus on their neighborhood at their time and not send USAF to combat the PLAF - and yes, Nehru requested the planes be manned by American pilots until ours could be trained? What happened was when the west refused to come to us in our time of need, we refused to support the west, they refused to listen to us and we moved ever towards the soviet sphere and became a soviet client nation in all but name. Look up all the UN votes post the china war and tell me how many times India voted against a Russian stance. We became a firm Russian client after Kissinger did not do anything about the genocide in E. Pakistan, forced Indira Gandhi's hand into liberating E. Pakistan and creating Bangladesh and then sent a carrier group to browbeat us into letting Pakistan go. Pre-1962 India mattered in the world forum as did Non Aligned Movement. Post-1962, NAM did not matter and we became weak because Nehru's foolishness got us into a war and lost it.

As for breaking up Pakistan post Cold War, who was going to foot the bill of a war? India? We were nigh bankrupt for the first half of the 90s. America? What was the impetus for them to solve India's problem? Certainly, even if they'd been willing, I wouldn't want an American army of modern times in my neighborhood. They are as bad as the Germans in winning battles and losing wars. Can you imagine a Pakistan completely divided into a civil war torn nation with a hundred caliphs? It'd have been a nightmare at our border with a repeat of E. Pakistan refugee crisis all over again, only this time, the refugees would utterly hate our guts and country.

disha wrote:
Arun.prabhu wrote:Pakistan is the only possible and realistic logical route and the Americans can't deal with them as they would like to.


Well Americans are also dumb here. They hold it sacrosanct that Bakistan is to be supported so that India cannot walk over it. Hello! Bakistan was erstwhile Indian territory and the UK-US as part of the great game thought they can hold the Baki dog under their camp and continue to play in the central asian theatre and create a bulwark against the spread of communism.

With the collapse of Soviet Union, the need of Bakistan vanished. So from 1991 to 2019 (28 years) why is Bakistan kept alive? What was the need for clintonites like Robin Raphael jumping up and down stating that US does not recognize accession of Kashmir to India?

A smarter power would have realized the trajectory Bakistan is taking on 9/12 2001 and decided to start the break Bakistan project. By now with break bakistan project, US would not have to worry about being in Afghanistan at all.

Now the light bulbs are going on in US SD. After a transactional ADHD trumpet is lighting a fire on the costs of sustaining an army in a land locked hostile country.

What is the way forward? Nobody wants to take ownership of Bakistan. In fact do not be surprised if civil war breaks out in Bakistan. It is actually not a question of if but when.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Arun.prabhu » 09 Aug 2019 18:59

Unfortunately, Balochistan does not extend from the Arabian Sea to the Afghanistan border today. But yes, supporting that movement, as we do, is a strategic play. If Pakistan descends into civil war, Indian political and military establishments should be moving heaven and earth to ensure the Balochs win the war and unite the country under their rule.

yensoy wrote:
Arun.prabhu wrote:Pakistan is the only possible and realistic logical route and the Americans can't deal with them as they would like to.

Actually there is another route, Baluchistan, if you get the drift... :wink:

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby KJo » 09 Aug 2019 19:38

Has Afghanistan said anything about this JK move? UAE has openly supported it.
(not that any foreign support actually matters)

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby mmasand » 09 Aug 2019 19:46

KJo wrote:Has Afghanistan said anything about this JK move? UAE has openly supported it.
(not that any foreign support actually matters)


Apart from statement from Karzai, nothing from official sources. I dare say most of the Afghan government is packing up to go into exile somewhere in Europe. The wording of the statement from the Taliban was carefully crafted and very diplomatic, something only a foreign nation/entity would do.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby yensoy » 09 Aug 2019 19:53

KJo wrote:Has Afghanistan said anything about this JK move? UAE has openly supported it.
(not that any foreign support actually matters)


1. Karzai supported India https://www.indiatoday.in/world/story/hope-indian-government-s-steps-lead-to-betterment-of-jammu-and-kashmir-people-hamid-karzai-1578922-2019-08-09
2. Taliban objected Pakistan's linking of Kashmir issue with Afghanistan https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/kashmir-taliban-afghanistan-pakistan-peace-1578995-2019-08-09, and essentially didn't take sides on the issue giving some perfunctory cautions much like the OIC
3. Afghanistan envoy to Pakistan said this doesn't concern them https://www.tolonews.com/afghanistan/kashmir-dispute-will-not-impact-afghan-peace-envoy

Probably the first time the past, present and (shudder) future leadership of Afghanistan are on the same page.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby sudhan » 09 Aug 2019 20:22

Cross post

sudhan wrote:As expected, Pakis are prodding their bunnies to do their smelly work

Taliban cancels Eid ceasefire

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby UlanBatori » 09 Aug 2019 20:22

Arun.prabhu wrote:Unfortunately, Balochistan does not extend from the Arabian Sea to the Afghanistan border today. But yes, supporting that movement, as we do, is a strategic play. If Pakistan descends into civil war, Indian political and military establishments should be moving heaven and earth to ensure the Balochs win the war and unite the country under their rule.


Hello? The solution is for the uniformed and other uninformed ppl in Yoo Ess to wake up and smell the Rooh Afza. The solution is very simple:
1) Strike a deal with Iran: Withdraw Revolutionary Guard from Syria (at least from close to Golan Heights). Get Yehudi BP down.
2) Put them INSIDE Afghanistan, with permission and invitation by Afghan guvrmand while they can still govern. Station along southern border with - yes- Balochistan.
3) IAF and Iran Air Fauj to provide air cover with occasional Hot Pursuit of terrorists across border into Balochistan.
4) Major waaar-Phooting construction project for Chabahar to North highway. Right now the average speed on that is like 4mph. Get it to 40mph.
5) Use Chabahar for resupply. Nice juxtaposition of US Navy vessels with PLN at Gwadar with IN keeping everyone bissful.
6) Use southern border of Afghanistan to provide Hyoomaneaterian Relief southward to Baloch National Front, all along the Balochistan border, going ever closer to Quetta.
7) Inside Afghanistan, the road gets improved from the western border to Kandahar, then to Kabul, and to the passes to Quetta.

Pretty soon Gwadar will open up too.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby srin » 09 Aug 2019 20:34

Worth reading in full ...
Will the Milk Come to a Boil in J&K?
In 1990, many believed here that Kashmir would become independent. “It was just euphemism for merger with Pakistan if you really ask me,” says a senior police officer who fought militancy in those days. In his room, a few men speak of how in those days many even in the police force believed that Dr Abdul Ahad Guru, ideologue of the terrorist organisation Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front (JLKF) would become the premier of ‘Azad Kashmir’. It was when the Indian state in Kashmir had come to its knees, more from its own weakness than the damage inflicted upon it by separatist forces in the Valley. The situation was so drastic in 1990 that a horde of civil servants, including senior bureaucrats, signed the JKLF’s memorandum to the United Nations for a plebiscite in the state. “I remember receiving a phone call from a civil servant who expressed his regret that he had earlier decided against becoming a signatory to the memorandum floated by Guru,” one of them recalls.


In a few years though, it was clear to most Kashmiris, including those who had taken up arms, that the Indian state would never become weak enough to part with Kashmir. It was then that they realised that it was better to make money in connivance with the mainstream political leadership. The ordinary Kashmiri, till recently, spoke of “aar ya paar” as an end to the Kashmir imbroglio. “You may hear a few youngsters still saying ‘Jeeve Jeeve Pakistan’, but the fact remains that older generations hate Pakistan now,” says a senior official. “They know ‘paar’ means a sacrifice of thousands of Kashmiris once again and yet this paar will never happen,” his colleague adds. And now, with the Centre’s decision, the ‘aar’ is pretty much final.


“I tell you, more than separatist groups, mainstream politicians in Kashmir ended up justifying separatism more,” says the staffer of a senior bureaucrat who has come to pick up a satellite phone for his boss from the police headquarters. Inside, a cop, who is from south Kashmir, speaks of how Mehbooba Mufti would give hours of hearing to even an ordinary Jamaat-e-Islami worker. “Why wouldn’t he feel empowered?” he says.

Senior police officers tell stories about how Hurriyat leaders would be given ultimate power, not by Pakistan, but forces owing allegiance to the Indian state. “When a Hurriyat leader landed at the airport he would be given access to the VIP lounge. The chief of the anti-hijacking unit at the airport would carry his bag. Tell me, how would a young Kashmiri who saw this feel any respect for India!” says one.

Those who have fought militancy, sometimes putting their lives in grave danger, are happy. “You have no idea how much pressure would be exerted on us sometimes from the political leadership to set free overground workers of terrorists who were also doubling up as workers of these parties. Now they can do nothing because I am directly answerable to the Home Ministry,” says one. “My boss now is Amit Shah,” laughs his batchmate.
:mrgreen:

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby williams » 09 Aug 2019 20:37

arshyam wrote:All this talk about the bakis not being able to afford an increase in their terror attacks on India is BS. They are just laying the ground for some plausible deniability, which they could exploit at the next FATF meeting.


The affordability has nothing to do with immediate cost. It has to do with the paradigm change that Modi-Doval brought in after Balakot. A lot of people think Balakot did not really hurt the Paki's. But in reality, it hurt a lot. Not just the 300 odd non-state actors in Balakot, but uniformed state actors as well. If you all remember when the precision package was delivered in Balakot, some additional packages were delivered in two other places. Those additional packages were not announced and it did hurt the Paki uniformed actors badly.

So Pakis sold themselves to Khan and are trying to add as much equipment to save their air space on any future attack. Problem with that is Modi-Doval is unpredictable, they might go for a different sort of attack next time. So the cost is really what will be delivered in retaliation. Modi will not only retaliate but will also milk any such incident with additional geopolitical gains. The little support they have in the Lutyens class is also dwindling, so any future non-state action will be very costly for the Pakis.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby williams » 09 Aug 2019 20:53

vijayk wrote:

NDTV
@ndtv
NDTV strongly condemns attempts by Pakistan to distort Indian media coverage by maliciously editing together different excerpts and taking quotes out of context and distorting them. (1/2)

NDTV
@ndtv
NDTV and all its journalists believe Kashmir is an integral part of India and as such is India’s internal matter. All our reports will continue to represent the view of every Indian without fear or bias of any kind. (2/2)



Can we shutdown these jihadi channel?


Actually, NDTV is doing yeoman service in exposing the Luytens crowd and anti-nationals. I think we should do the opposite, keep encouraging NDTV to bring in all the closet traitors to be exposed to the public.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Arun.prabhu » 09 Aug 2019 21:17

In return for Iran giving up their Syrian client state, the trust of their other clients in the Middle East and Africa, what exactly does Iran gain from USA in this fantasy? Rule over unruly, sunni fanatic Pathan territories in Afghanistan? Do you see why Iran might be unwilling to go for that deal? Syria is not just about Assad. It's part of a thousand year war between Shia and Sunnis for supremacy in that region of the world. It's also about constructing gas pipelines, which Iran and KSA don't agree upon.

If Obama had gotten the psychotic Hillary Clinton elected, your plan would actually have been workable in maybe a decade. Hillary lost the election, the coup staged by the American intelligence and counterintelligence community in coordination with the globalists has failed. Trump has rolled back the clock on the Obama strategic realignment in the Middle East. He has allowed MbS in KSA a free hand in return for several hundred billion dollars of arms purchase by KSA. He is pushing Iran into either an abject surrender at the negotiation table or a suicidal attack on the battlefield - indicators are the IRG is intent on choosing the latter with this stupid take ships hostage gimmick they're pulling now. Trump has revitalized American relationship with Israel, which Obama had tried hardest to sour forever even going so far as interfering in Israeli elections to dethrone Nethanyahu and electing the Israeli hardline left into power, and Israel considers Iran, the greatest threat to its existence. No lobby is as powerful in Washington DC as the Israeli lobby. Guess in which directions are going to be pushing America?

Today and for the foreseeable future - because Trump will lose only if the Democrats cheat even more widely than they did in the 2016 elections and Google and other social media companies continue to be allowed to censor conservatives unfettered - Iran and America will not be working together. Which leaves leaving Afghanistan or cozying up to Pakistan as the only two practical choices. Trump is writing off Afghanistan as a lost cause. And once the last American infantryman is gone, America has no need to play even a little nice with Pakistan. Unless Trump dies or loses the election, this is how things are going to work out.

UlanBatori wrote:
Arun.prabhu wrote:Unfortunately, Balochistan does not extend from the Arabian Sea to the Afghanistan border today. But yes, supporting that movement, as we do, is a strategic play. If Pakistan descends into civil war, Indian political and military establishments should be moving heaven and earth to ensure the Balochs win the war and unite the country under their rule.


Hello? The solution is for the uniformed and other uninformed ppl in Yoo Ess to wake up and smell the Rooh Afza. The solution is very simple:
1) Strike a deal with Iran: Withdraw Revolutionary Guard from Syria (at least from close to Golan Heights). Get Yehudi BP down.
2) Put them INSIDE Afghanistan, with permission and invitation by Afghan guvrmand while they can still govern. Station along southern border with - yes- Balochistan.
3) IAF and Iran Air Fauj to provide air cover with occasional Hot Pursuit of terrorists across border into Balochistan.
4) Major waaar-Phooting construction project for Chabahar to North highway. Right now the average speed on that is like 4mph. Get it to 40mph.
5) Use Chabahar for resupply. Nice juxtaposition of US Navy vessels with PLN at Gwadar with IN keeping everyone bissful.
6) Use southern border of Afghanistan to provide Hyoomaneaterian Relief southward to Baloch National Front, all along the Balochistan border, going ever closer to Quetta.
7) Inside Afghanistan, the road gets improved from the western border to Kandahar, then to Kabul, and to the passes to Quetta.

Pretty soon Gwadar will open up too.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby pankajs » 09 Aug 2019 21:26

williams wrote:
vijayk wrote:

Can we shutdown these jihadi channel?


Actually, NDTV is doing yeoman service in exposing the Luytens crowd and anti-nationals. I think we should do the opposite, keep encouraging NDTV to bring in all the closet traitors to be exposed to the public.

That and one needs something or someone to rage against or to unite everyone :wink: else co-traveler will turn on each other. Similar to why BJP needs Rahul Gandhi it also needs a NDTV.
Last edited by pankajs on 09 Aug 2019 21:34, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby UlanBatori » 09 Aug 2019 21:33

^^ (Arun.Prabhuji and his Yoo Ess Sarbhij Aphsars):

The YY-Uber-Alles model works only if India is passive and cedes all power in IO region to YY/KSA.

There are two other wild cards:
WC1: Cheen is getting pretty angry with Terroristan over the usual perfidy: Rather than pay interest and repay cheen loans - or cede more of TSP to them - Pak is apparently trying to play US-sweetheart, and helping to hit cheen interests in Eyeran.

So.. for once, cheen and desh have a common interest in keeping Iran viable, though for different strategic reasons. The show may not be all over. If Balochistan becomes independent, there is no reason why they shouldn't have good relations with both cheen and desh. And a Taliban-free Afghanistan.

And.. there is a Wilder Card.

WC2: All of this will be fine with Putin, if he can get over his dream of watching the Americans lose miserably in A'stan. Then again, Putin owes his own rise to the fact that the Soviet establishment who went to war in A'stan all got Non-Personned. Probably by Putin himself.

So the YY model of the Noo Whirled Odor may not be the only game in town, nor even anywhere close to being realistic. Let's see: the present excuse for US Foreign Policy is to Lose Afghanistan, and that will vastly raise American prowess in ME? U c what is wrong with that picture?

The only ppl who want a Taliban takeover in Afghanistan, are the Paki Sunni Jarnails. If they are seen to be sliding into the pakistan, I think that whole enterprise goes under.

I think if Taliban takes A'stan, Houthis will take Yemen - and a good chunk of KSA too.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby srin » 09 Aug 2019 21:47

williams wrote:
vijayk wrote:

Can we shutdown these jihadi channel?


Actually, NDTV is doing yeoman service in exposing the Luytens crowd and anti-nationals. I think we should do the opposite, keep encouraging NDTV to bring in all the closet traitors to be exposed to the public.


It is actually much better than that. There is a reason to be grateful to the Lootyens crowd, the desh drohi media and the Khan market gang. Their service to the nation, despite their own best efforts, is unparalleled. :D

You see, all the Bakistani calculations on how we react is based on their interactions with the afore-mentioned folks - either in regular interactions or in Track-thoo meetings. So, Bakis think that we really want Aman ki whatever, that we really think we want Bakistan prosperous, that we're afraid of their retaliation, and that we think Kashmir should be special and whatever nonsense they spout these days in JNU. Because these useful idiots are the only people that Bakis meet with regularity, they make the quite natural assumption that this is what all Indians want (or atleast the Indians in power want). They somehow don't understand the contempt in which the rest of India holds these people, and also the will of the real Bharat.
That's why they thought we wouldn't do Pokhran-2 or that we wouldn't respond to Kargil or we wouldn't do surgical strike or Balakot or remove A370. They keep getting wrong-footed in a decisive leader is in Delhi who goes against the Lutyens pulse.

I'd say - keep up the Track-thoo, do more chai-biscoot, send more candles to Wagah for their peaceful march or whatever. There is no better disinformation than this.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby CRamS » 09 Aug 2019 22:18

I saw the 2 clips of NDTV Sreenivasan Jain and the KM Jiahdi Nasir Masoodi on twitter, one shown by TSP and the original. Frankly, I did not see the difference. So I don't know why NDTV is angry with TSP for the latter showering praise on it and using their (NDTV) coverage for further their (TSP) propaganda.

Now, I can bet you, here is what this colonized traitor Sreenivasan Jain will say. He will say they were being 'objective'. Yeah right, NDTV is some independent island in India for them to take a bogus neutral stance on such an issue of national importance and national security. These useful idiot priks on DDM who take useless theoretical journalism 101 taught at Columbia so seriously, ought to watch so called 'liberal' CNN and pro-Trump Fox coverage of issues affecting US vital interests. Then they will know what nationalism means. Yes, CNN/Fox will be 'objective' anal-yzing an innocuous sound byte from Trump and beat it to death, but talk of Libya or some other 'bad guy' of US, and they will flush Columbia journalism 101 down the toilet.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby CRamS » 09 Aug 2019 22:30

I love Fair Didi's straight talking :-)

‏https://twitter.com/CChristineFair/status/1159781955489193984

@CChristineFair
Follow Follow @CChristineFair
More (((Christine Fair))) Retweeted varun reddy mothe
He has a penis.(((Christine Fair))) added,

@mothevarun
Replying to @CChristineFair
Why is kugelboy going around news channels talking rubbish in the US ?.you are million times smarter than him on every issue about South Asia
4:02 AM - 9 Aug 2019I

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Vikas » 09 Aug 2019 22:33

^ Why is NDTV and its content so important for CramS Ji when even NDTV staff watches some other news channel ?

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby aylamrin » 09 Aug 2019 22:49

KJo wrote:Has Afghanistan said anything about this JK move? UAE has openly supported it.
(not that any foreign support actually matters)


Pathan Bhai has supported it :D

There goes my 100th post!

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby chetak » 09 Aug 2019 22:53

The Unseen Unheard Victims of Article 35(A)



The Unseen Unheard Victims of Article 35(A)

News Bharati 09-Aug-2019
Ratan Sharda



There have been lot of debates earlier and after dilution of Article 370 and scrapping of Article 35(A) along with constitution of Jammu Kashmir. Much has been said about sovereignty, broken promises to Kashmiri people, rights of the states etc. Ladakh which used to come into limelight only when China created some mischief also got much deserved attention and justice.

However, people have yet to grasp the seriousness of violation of women’s rights and discrimination against them. Focus of this article is different so I would just encapsulate the entire women’s rights debate with a live example. Mr. Farooq Abdullah married a British lady who became Kashmiri citizen by virtue of 35(A). His son, Omar Abdulla, by virtue of 35(A), a natural citizen of Kashmir married a Hindu girl outside J&K; she became a citizen of Kashmir. His sister married a Hindu person from Rajasthan but she lost her citizenship of J&K, or Permanent Resident (PR) status which gives certain rights. Now she has her existing property in Kashmir which she can enjoy but she cannot will it to either her husband or son or daughter. Her family loses right to inheritance. After she passes away, it would go to state exchequer. Let this sink in.



Most of the people have not understood the significance of a few sentences submerged in cacophony of TV studios about Article 35(A). It is about the unseen orphans of partition, of the people who came to Jammu Kashmir on invitation of JK government, of Gorkhas who stayed back after defending Kashmir as members of the Maharaja’s army; and of displaced persons from POJK and Chhamb. Let me bring the focus back to these large sections of Indians who have suffered for long due to it.

After the infamous partition of 1947, about 5,800 families, mostly Hindus & Sikhs, entered Jammu from West Pakistan (West Punjab). 80% of these are from SC/ST groups. They are living in utterly pathetic conditions in Jammu. They were allowed to stay and were given 'refugee' status. They number around 300,000 now. After years of struggle they can vote for Central elections but they can’t vote for State elections as they are not state subjects under article 35(A) in the J&K constitution, which by the way, has no mention of minorities and rights or privileges for minorities. There is no clause for human rights. It is approx. 50 pages of document.

These are the orphans of partition with no rights. They can’t go to the government schools and colleges; they can’t get jobs, forget reservations, buy land or do business! This is fourth generation of these victims of 35(A) and mechanisations of Valley politicians. Imagine the fate of these dispossessed people; especially if you consider that people from same region who luckily entered in India from Punjab went onto establish successful lives. Two of them, Shri Manmohan Singh and Shri I K Gujral went onto become Prime Ministers of India. So, what was the mistake these unlucky refugees made? They crossed over to Jammu. Such was the mad rush to get out of hell holes of new Pakistan that they hardly had a choice.

There are refugees who trooped into Jammu & Kashmir from POJK – officially part of Jammu and Kashmir as per accession and historical records of those times. We have laid claim on this area by keeping 24 seats in J&K assembly for POJK. However, those who migrated from POJK after tribal incursions (mainly from Muzafarabad , Mirpur, Kotli, Bhimbar , Deva Balala and also from Gilgit / Baltistan) were not given refugee status. They have been named by JK Government as Displaced Persons. Neither GOI nor J&K Government has done any formal registration of these POJK DPs. Some people place their number around a million. No claims for their properties have been given. Even meagre Ex-gratia that was given, was not given to all the DPs. They have no education or employment or commercial support from GOI or State Government. Neither the UN nor any international Human Rights organizations have cared for their cause over 70 years. Many of them could not get PRC due to violent circumstances of displacement in 1947 and cannot even construct their own house in this side of J&K. This is against international human rights conventions too.



Around 200 Valimiki (SC) families were brought from Punjab to J&K in the year 1957 to be employed as sweepers and scavengers. A cabinet decision was taken and these families were given assurance that the permanent resident clause would be relaxed for them. Though their numbers have increased manifold yet the permanent resident clause has been relaxed. It means even if they do a PhD, they can only take up the job of a sweeper. It is ironical that the caste specific profession has been imposed in secular India in the state of J&K; and this information remained secret from the entire country. The sweeper of this state can vote in Lok Sabha elections but is not allowed to vote in State Assembly or municipality elections. It means they are politically kept away from the democratic process of the state. Their colony at Valmiki Colony, Gandhi Nagar, Jammu has not been regularized till date by the state government.

Radhika Gill belongs to this SC class of Safai Karmachari. She is a rank holder in “Shot Put” and “100 meter Race” in State Athletic Championship of JK, but she was refused civil services job and told she can only become a sweeper.

Even the citizens of J&K with full rights have not got justice. After the 1971 Indo-Pak War some areas of Chhamb (Jammu District of J&K) were permanently handed over to Pakistan by India in 1972 as part of Shimla Agreement. People of all the villages of Chhamb (about 46 to 48 villages of Chhamb) were asked by GOI to vacate their homes / lands in 1972. As per rough estimates nearly 6500 to 7000 families were uprooted. Of these around 4600 families comprising of nearly 18000 members were accommodated in relief camps and nearly 1600 to 2000 families were treated as Non Camp DPs as they shifted to their relatives’ villages. Their lives are in limbo as they have not been compensated or provided alternative homes they deserved.

Then, there is the sad case of Gorkha population of around 100,000 who became part of the Dogra king’s army of Kashmir 170 years back. Shockingly, they are deprived of basic human rights by State Government of JK in the garb of Article 35A. They have no right to vote in local elections of state, government job & social welfare benefits. Their children are denied admission in professional colleges.

A retired army officer wrote a letter to the governor of Jammu Kashmir, complaining, “We are residing in Jammu and Kashmir right from the beginning of the Dogra Regime in 1846. The large population of people, whose beloved ones fought for the Jammu & Kashmir Maharaja, now live in the most inhuman conditions. After more than 70 years of independence, we are still denied the status of permanent residents of Jammu and Kashmir, and are victims of social and economic discrimination. We are discriminated against in the matter of securing government jobs even though we have the requisite qualification. …We have become bonded labourers in the State confined to watchman duty, a slavery of a sort. To crown it all, the State has, contrary to national and international human rights law, thwarted any mechanism or procedure for us to achieve our fundamental rights, by implementing a farce called “Permanent Resident Certificate”.

Thus, Articles 370 and 35(A) had dehumanized the lives of a million citizens of India. I hope this small note will open the eyes of champions of these highly unjust provisions of the Constitution.

(With inputs from www.jammukashmirnow.com)

Arun.prabhu
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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Arun.prabhu » 09 Aug 2019 23:10

We do not have the network to supply and run a anti-taliban alliance in Afghanistan.unless we can install a pro-India strongman and keep him in power, Afghanistan is to us what kashmir was to Pakistan - a chance to inflict a thousand cuts. That strategy, unfortunately will not work out because unlike the IA, the Pakistani army and their proxies don’t have any civilised restraints.

Pakistani perfidy is known to one and all. So long as China needs Pakistani ports, China will ignore Pakistan’s double game just as America did pakistan’s so long as they needed Pakistan.

Who is going to gain Baluchistan freedom? India? Baluchistan serves us better as a permanent suppurating wound in pakistan’s hind quarters and a permanent threat to Chinese Pakistani port ambitions. Turning up the heat risks a war that is currently not in our best interests. Let Pakistan go down the toilet some more and then as central control slips, we use salami tactics to take de facto and then de jure control of their territory a wee bit at a time.

As for Putin, remember the vast army he sent into Syria? No? That’s because Russia can’t project power, doesn’t have the staying power to support what they can project, are overextended defending their own border. Are you aware that Chinese are sending their folks into Siberia to farm and exploit resources and Putin has been turning a blind eye because the Russian army doesn’t have the man power to defend that long border as well as the European theatre?

At no point from 2001 till date has America ever had a winning Afghanistan strategy. They could support about 100000-150000 troops. This number included coalition troops. Troops from any country that had signed all three additional protocols of the Geneva convention were useless for fear their left wing political masters would crucify them at the slightest excuse. The key to winning a guerrilla campaign is to control the population. That means holding territory, making the population fear you more than they fear the guerrilas in the beginning and then instilling confidence that you are there to stay and will not abandon them to the guerrillas at a later date... the coalition could hold and control territory when American, British, Canadian and Aussie troops were deployed but never controlled the population. When most of the rest were deployed in an area, they did not even control the territory. The rules of engagement were so restrictive and the fear of court-martial was ever present and the European troops weren’t trained for war. The Russians had the right approach in Afghanistan but they ran out of money. The Pakistanis had the right approach with the taliban in Afghanistan. The poor Americans... they would stack bodies all day long whenever anyone engaged them, but the afghanis and the Pakistanis has nowhere else to go whereas the Americans were always going to go. this truth was known in 2001 and America should have either given up or gone caveman on the taliban. That they did not, that no commander ordered the latter or recommended the former is the worst indictment possible of American political and military leadership. Acknowledging reality after spending more than trillion dollars is still better than never acknowledging reality and continuing to pour more good money after bad.

[edit]There is no special shame in this.[/edit] Especially since no one but the most ruthless of generals and rulers have ever succeeded in pacifying the unruly afghani tribes throughput history. Furthermore, The tyranny of logistics was against America and their way of fighting war in Afghanistan and they have run out of time.

UlanBatori wrote:^^ (Arun.Prabhuji and his Yoo Ess Sarbhij Aphsars):

The YY-Uber-Alles model works only if India is passive and cedes all power in IO region to YY/KSA.

There are two other wild cards:
WC1: Cheen is getting pretty angry with Terroristan over the usual perfidy: Rather than pay interest and repay cheen loans - or cede more of TSP to them - Pak is apparently trying to play US-sweetheart, and helping to hit cheen interests in Eyeran.

So.. for once, cheen and desh have a common interest in keeping Iran viable, though for different strategic reasons. The show may not be all over. If Balochistan becomes independent, there is no reason why they shouldn't have good relations with both cheen and desh. And a Taliban-free Afghanistan.

And.. there is a Wilder Card.

WC2: All of this will be fine with Putin, if he can get over his dream of watching the Americans lose miserably in A'stan. Then again, Putin owes his own rise to the fact that the Soviet establishment who went to war in A'stan all got Non-Personned. Probably by Putin himself.

So the YY model of the Noo Whirled Odor may not be the only game in town, nor even anywhere close to being realistic. Let's see: the present excuse for US Foreign Policy is to Lose Afghanistan, and that will vastly raise American prowess in ME? U c what is wrong with that picture?

The only ppl who want a Taliban takeover in Afghanistan, are the Paki Sunni Jarnails. If they are seen to be sliding into the pakistan, I think that whole enterprise goes under.

I think if Taliban takes A'stan, Houthis will take Yemen - and a good chunk of KSA too.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Bart S » 09 Aug 2019 23:26

Vikas wrote:^ Why is NDTV and its content so important for CramS Ji when even NDTV staff watches some other news channel ?


Helps protect against low BP :wink:

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Arun.prabhu » 09 Aug 2019 23:28

This was happening in India? And the Nehru family allowed it. My blood boils!

Happy that there is such a large pro Indian voting block. Good riddance to the sleazy Kashmiri politicians.


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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby CRamS » 09 Aug 2019 23:58

Bart S wrote:
Vikas wrote:^ Why is NDTV and its content so important for CramS Ji when even NDTV staff watches some other news channel ?


Helps protect against low BP :wink:


I was responding to a post above on NDTV issuing a clarification that their broadcasts were being misused by TSP. I was questioning that.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby kit » 10 Aug 2019 00:12

Arun.prabhu wrote:We do not have the network to supply and run a anti-taliban alliance in Afghanistan.unless we can install a pro-India strongman and keep him in power, Afghanistan is to us what kashmir was to Pakistan - a chance to inflict a thousand cuts. That strategy, unfortunately will not work out because unlike the IA, the Pakistani army and their proxies don’t have any civilised restraints.

Pakistani perfidy is known to one and all. So long as China needs Pakistani ports, China will ignore Pakistan’s double game just as America did pakistan’s so long as they needed Pakistan.

Who is going to gain Baluchistan freedom? India? Baluchistan serves us better as a permanent suppurating wound in pakistan’s hind quarters and a permanent threat to Chinese Pakistani port ambitions. Turning up the heat risks a war that is currently not in our best interests. Let Pakistan go down the toilet some more and then as central control slips, we use salami tactics to take de facto and then de jure control of their territory a wee bit at a time.

As for Putin, remember the vast army he sent into Syria? No? That’s because Russia can’t project power, doesn’t have the staying power to support what they can project, are overextended defending their own border. Are you aware that Chinese are sending their folks into Siberia to farm and exploit resources and Putin has been turning a blind eye because the Russian army doesn’t have the man power to defend that long border as well as the European theatre?

At no point from 2001 till date has America ever had a winning Afghanistan strategy. They could support about 100000-150000 troops. This number included coalition troops. Troops from any country that had signed all three additional protocols of the Geneva convention were useless for fear their left wing political masters would crucify them at the slightest excuse. The key to winning a guerrilla campaign is to control the population. That means holding territory, making the population fear you more than they fear the guerrilas in the beginning and then instilling confidence that you are there to stay and will not abandon them to the guerrillas at a later date... the coalition could hold and control territory when American, British, Canadian and Aussie troops were deployed but never controlled the population. When most of the rest were deployed in an area, they did not even control the territory. The rules of engagement were so restrictive and the fear of court-martial was ever present and the European troops weren’t trained for war. The Russians had the right approach in Afghanistan but they ran out of money. The Pakistanis had the right approach with the taliban in Afghanistan. The poor Americans... they would stack bodies all day long whenever anyone engaged them, but the afghanis and the Pakistanis has nowhere else to go whereas the Americans were always going to go. this truth was known in 2001 and America should have either given up or gone caveman on the taliban. That they did not, that no commander ordered the latter or recommended the former is the worst indictment possible of American political and military leadership. Acknowledging reality after spending more than trillion dollars is still better than never acknowledging reality and continuing to pour more good money after bad.

[edit]There is no special shame in this.[/edit] Especially since no one but the most ruthless of generals and rulers have ever succeeded in pacifying the unruly afghani tribes throughput history. Furthermore, The tyranny of logistics was against America and their way of fighting war in Afghanistan and they have run out of time.

UlanBatori wrote:^^ (Arun.Prabhuji and his Yoo Ess Sarbhij Aphsars):

The YY-Uber-Alles model works only if India is passive and cedes all power in IO region to YY/KSA.

There are two other wild cards:
WC1: Cheen is getting pretty angry with Terroristan over the usual perfidy: Rather than pay interest and repay cheen loans - or cede more of TSP to them - Pak is apparently trying to play US-sweetheart, and helping to hit cheen interests in Eyeran.

So.. for once, cheen and desh have a common interest in keeping Iran viable, though for different strategic reasons. The show may not be all over. If Balochistan becomes independent, there is no reason why they shouldn't have good relations with both cheen and desh. And a Taliban-free Afghanistan.

And.. there is a Wilder Card.

WC2: All of this will be fine with Putin, if he can get over his dream of watching the Americans lose miserably in A'stan. Then again, Putin owes his own rise to the fact that the Soviet establishment who went to war in A'stan all got Non-Personned. Probably by Putin himself.

So the YY model of the Noo Whirled Odor may not be the only game in town, nor even anywhere close to being realistic. Let's see: the present excuse for US Foreign Policy is to Lose Afghanistan, and that will vastly raise American prowess in ME? U c what is wrong with that picture?

The only ppl who want a Taliban takeover in Afghanistan, are the Paki Sunni Jarnails. If they are seen to be sliding into the pakistan, I think that whole enterprise goes under.

I think if Taliban takes A'stan, Houthis will take Yemen - and a good chunk of KSA too.


Not exactly sure whether Talibunnies running amock in Afghanistan is a good idea for anyone around including Russia, central Asian republics, KSA and Iran. The bunnies would increasingly target their benefactor Pakis first for the nukes , this will happen. America can find a suitcase nuke soon and come running back :mrgreen:

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby mmasand » 10 Aug 2019 00:19

Bart S wrote:
Vikas wrote:^ Why is NDTV and its content so important for CramS Ji when even NDTV staff watches some other news channel ?


Helps protect against low BP :wink:


Totally unrelated, but Prannoy and his Mrs in tow were barred from leaving the country on their little Spanish sojourn this afternoon at IGIA :D

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby disha » 10 Aug 2019 01:05

Kashi wrote:
disha wrote:Now the light bulbs are going on in US SD.


Are they? Or are we confusing blinking decoration lights for light bulbs going on?


It could be blinking red lights being confused as disco lights by the foggy bottom. Either way it appears that US SD is behaving like a person afflicted with cognitive dissonance. So reading too much of normal behaviour in their actions itself will be insane.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby vimal » 10 Aug 2019 01:18

SD is too understaffed thanks to be effective thanks to DT and his gang of isolationist.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby chetak » 10 Aug 2019 01:30

some not so recent history

Image

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby disha » 10 Aug 2019 02:03

Arun.prabhu wrote:Oh, and how has Uncle Sam been supporting Pakistan? Did they denounce India for the Balakote strikes or the aftermath?

...

And what is this story about UK-US wanting Pakistan to counter the spread of communism. You give the Americans and the English too much credit and our people too little.
...



Sir'ji., please calm down. I do want to put things objectively and dispassionately. The perfidious role of former-UK and US needs to be acknowledged. And so also the dumb mistakes of the Indian polity at least until the late 60s.

But all of the above will take a little bit more time for me to put together here and for me time is a constraint. So I do want to answer your queries patiently, just humbly request you to be little bit indulgent to me.


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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby darshan » 10 Aug 2019 02:21

I have also noticed that about VOX while looking at their articles on racism. One reason I can think of is that all muslim organizations heavily get involved with anyone writing about racism and hate crimes. Organizations like CAIR are constantly in touch with anyone writing about the hate crime.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby UlanBatori » 10 Aug 2019 02:48

I refuse to think that there is no outcome better than allowing Pakistan to win in Afghanistan - AGAIN! But then I have faith in Pakistan. They will find a way. To *uck up. Look at 1992 (when the Taliban won) to 2001: they managed to bring the Americans in and get 120,000 Pakis killed.

Prabhuji, AFAIK, Russians won in Syria, with an amazing small force and negligible casualties/losses. Probably the most impressive military victory I have ever seen, and done under impossible odds. I think they can easily win in Yemen if they so decide - or at least cause massive losses and takleef to KSA, enough to destabilize the monarchy.

The trouble in Balochistan is that Balochis hate the Iranians almost as much as they hate Pakis. This unfortunate equation has to change: after all both are Shia and right now Shia are under even worse threat of genocide than Hindus are. I think relations between the Hazara in Afghanistan, and Iran, have been pretty decent. If India can mediate a Baloch/Iran/Afghan deal, then Balochistan can become independent. True that in the final phases there will have to be organized military intervention, but that can be a multinational force (Iran-Afghan-Indian). Then again, as things become interesting, Pakjab will not be able to keep large forces in Balochistan - if Pakhtoonistan, Balwaristan and Sindh become uncooperative.

One has be altruistic and optimistic in these things. Have faith in the Pakis!

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby UlanBatori » 10 Aug 2019 02:52

Meanwhile, news media found something to report!


Kashmir: Fury and frustration in Islamabad as thousands turn out to protest
An estimated 8,000 demonstrators came out onto the streets of the capital despite a torrential downpour.
One young man told me: "Yes, we are angry here. We don't want to fight. The last option is to fight…but if we have to, we will get Kashmir by the sword, by ammunition and guns." These are worrying words.
{Oooooooo!!! Such PEACEFUL people getting angry!}

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Manu » 10 Aug 2019 03:12

UlanBatori wrote:
Arun.prabhu wrote:Unfortunately, Balochistan does not extend from the Arabian Sea to the Afghanistan border today. But yes, supporting that movement, as we do, is a strategic play. If Pakistan descends into civil war, Indian political and military establishments should be moving heaven and earth to ensure the Balochs win the war and unite the country under their rule.


Hello? The solution is for the uniformed and other uninformed ppl in Yoo Ess to wake up and smell the Rooh Afza. The solution is very simple:
1) Strike a deal with Iran: Withdraw Revolutionary Guard from Syria (at least from close to Golan Heights). Get Yehudi BP down.
2) Put them INSIDE Afghanistan, with permission and invitation by Afghan guvrmand while they can still govern. Station along southern border with - yes- Balochistan.
3) IAF and Iran Air Fauj to provide air cover with occasional Hot Pursuit of terrorists across border into Balochistan.
4) Major waaar-Phooting construction project for Chabahar to North highway. Right now the average speed on that is like 4mph. Get it to 40mph.
5) Use Chabahar for resupply. Nice juxtaposition of US Navy vessels with PLN at Gwadar with IN keeping everyone bissful.
6) Use southern border of Afghanistan to provide Hyoomaneaterian Relief southward to Baloch National Front, all along the Balochistan border, going ever closer to Quetta.
7) Inside Afghanistan, the road gets improved from the western border to Kandahar, then to Kabul, and to the passes to Quetta.

Pretty soon Gwadar will open up too.

This completely ignores the major elephant in the room, so to speak. In your plan, we will be simultaneously friends of Iran, USA and Baluchistan, all at the same time ( and still holding on to Saudi relationship in some way). That is impossible, unless I'm missing something.

(1) Israel, America, Bakis are all sideshows, to some extent.
(2) It is ultimately a Shia-Sunni Battle between Saudi alliance and Iran Alliance. Saudis are trying to hammer Shias in Yemen, Iran is stoking trouble in Saudi (oil rich) Shia areas. The entire Persian Gulf mess is 90% due to the competitive theater between Shia and Sunni. Arabs do not want to fall (once again) under Persian domination after emerging from Turkish Caliphate domination of so many centuries.
(3) Baluchistan, BTW is 50% in Bakistan and 50% in Iran (in fact, there is some portion in Afghanistan as well - overall Baluchistan is larger than France!). Both countries ate it up. And there are Baluch Shias and Baluch Sunnis. Saudis and Iran respectively, fund 'their sides'. Majority of Baloch are Sunni, btw.
EDIT: I sort of shot off the hip, without realizing that Arun Prabhu has made substantially the same argument already.
Last edited by Manu on 10 Aug 2019 03:46, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Anujan » 10 Aug 2019 03:15

I am not sure if the isloo crowd are truly passionate and if they mean it. I mean, if they really felt strongly about it, they should have burned a few busses and looted a few banks, no? Gone are the glorious days when Peshawar KFC would get burned down when US president made a speech. Where is that passion hain? Why is KFC still standing in Isloo?

I am worried too. No point angering the Pakistanis. They will send angry terrorists across the border. Better to make peace with them so they only send calm terrorists across the border.


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