Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby panduranghari » 10 Aug 2019 13:20

Kashi wrote:Madam Unfair's uncanny ability to change colours would put a Chameleon to shame.

She's best kept at two arms length.


Most BRF peepul are blocked by unFair on Twitter

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby A_Gupta » 10 Aug 2019 13:41

There are three challenges to 370 repeal in the Supreme Court, the latest one this morning.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby menon s » 10 Aug 2019 13:52

Hajam Sethi--a friday times Editorial..

Unfortunately, the Miltablishment is at its wits end. Having put all its eggs in Imran Khan’s flaky basket and approved his decimation of the opposition and gagging of the media, it has left itself with few allies or options in the event of a strategic or tactical mishap, when Mr Khan will have to be scapegoated. The longer it takes to realise this unfolding crisis of National Power, the more problematic the solution will be when it explodes.

https://www.thefridaytimes.com/crisis-o ... nal-power/

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Arun.prabhu » 10 Aug 2019 14:02

With all due respect, NRao, I'm not the one enamored of a narrative or denying reality. If Afghanistan becomes an Indian satrapy or client state after American exit, I'll eat crow, but I don't think they will. Time will tell.

NRao wrote:AP ji,

With all due respect, I happen to think that Modi has rewritten the book on logic.

All that stuff about Pakistan and (Afghan) Taliban (and what is this about Syria, Russia and Turkey? Here? In this convo?) is all Mithya.

I mean anyone who wants to believe in that narrative is OK to follow it, but, honestly, it does not apply here. IMHO of course. Modi has given the rest a choice India or Pakistan. Your chal (that of other nations).

And, that is how it should be.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby pankajs » 10 Aug 2019 15:03

The two new UTs, Jammu and Kashmir, and Ladakh, will come into existence on Oct 31 which happens to be Sardar Patel's birth anniversary.

This adds another data point to the narrative that while 370/35A action was planned, it had to be moved forward given the fast changing scenario wrt Afghanistan, Bakistan and America.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Amber G. » 10 Aug 2019 16:21

Meanwhile -Pakistan backed terrorists are protesting after the abrogation of Article 370 from Jammu and Kashmir.
Image

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby A_Gupta » 10 Aug 2019 16:48

Arun.Prabhu asked
And what is this story about UK-US wanting Pakistan to counter the spread of communism. You give the Americans and the English too much credit and our people too little.


There is a bunch of British secret papers published just in 2018.
Towards a Ceasefire in Kashmir, British Official Reports from South Asia, 18 September – 31 December 1948
edited by L. Carter.

Bear with me, this is a little long, even though I'm try to keep the excerpts short. It is relevant to the question above.

#194
Grafftey-Smith to Noel-Baker
Telegram, Top Secret
Karachi, November 18, 1948, 3.20 pm

"...one overruling anxiety of Pakistan Government is the danger of any further considerable movement of Muslims from Kashmir into West Punjab, since they believe that influx of no more than another one or two hundred thousand refugees would crack provincial economy and mean collapse of Pakistan."

{and India is with relentless determination building up to attack Poonch and Mirpur which would produce such a flood of refugees}

"5. I have already reported to you the words used by the editor of Dawn in conversation with me on November 5th when he said after emphasizing his dislike of Russia and of communism "but we would rather be conquered by Russians than be reconquered by India". This sentiment which would be shared by any Pakistan was recently endorsed to me with all sincerity by the Pakistan Prime Minister.....If we do nothing to restrain the present Indian offensive in Kashmir and if this leads to a further influx of panic-stricken Muslim refugees ....I fear that a nation-wide revulsion of feeling here favorable to Russia and hostile to ourselves will be inevitable".

Well, historical fact is that the British advised the Indian government against proceeding.

#184 in the book noted that Pakistan had left West Punjab very lightly defended and that if Nehru had any problem in Kashmir he could very easily take West Punjab and thus settle the Kashmir issue.

#195 in the book notes that Pakistan has relied on British assurances that India will not expand the conflict into Punjab and thus moved key Punjab forces into Kashmir, and there would be "incalculable" effect on British-Pakistan if disaster ensued from an Indian push into Punjab.

#214 and some subsequent are about how the Brits tried to persuade Nehru that there was no military solution to the Kashmir problem, that Indian forces' morale was wearing thin, the army was short of supplies, etc., etc.

IMO, because General Cariappa is kicking Pakis and not falling in with British schemes "he is vain, superficial, impetuous, lacking in stability, moral courage and above all military judgement".

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby nam » 10 Aug 2019 17:13

menon s wrote:Hajam Sethi--a friday times Editorial..

Unfortunately, the Miltablishment is at its wits end. Having put all its eggs in Imran Khan’s flaky basket and approved his decimation of the opposition and gagging of the media, it has left itself with few allies or options in the event of a strategic or tactical mishap, when Mr Khan will have to be scapegoated. The longer it takes to realise this unfolding crisis of National Power, the more problematic the solution will be when it explodes.

https://www.thefridaytimes.com/crisis-o ... nal-power/


PA would want to create a situation which can be sold to the world as a crisis, in return for getting 370 back. The idea is not to win a fight but to create a crisis and get H&D back..


It is all about h&d among the awaam. Even the Feb 27 atta k was done in broad daylight for PR purpose..

Real attacks are done in night like we did.

This time we need to make sure our response is publicly visible. No gentleman nonsense.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby vijayk » 10 Aug 2019 17:20

https://twitter.com/AdityaRajKaul/statu ... 4835901440

Next time someone tells you that #Kashmir is under curfew, show them this video at Dal Gate in Srinagar. Liars need to be shown the truth. Some journalists as well lying through their teeth. Restrictions are surely in place but there is no curfew. People eager to celebrate Eid.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Arun.prabhu » 10 Aug 2019 17:33

So the English looked out for themselves. And Nehru was an incompetent ass wrt military affairs. Both these facts aren’t exactly surprises. The man who provoked the Chinese on the border without building up forces of things went south and who listened to sycophants rather than actual competent officers did not bother to listen to his officers immediately after independence and did not trust his own intelligence or perhaps there was a failure of intelligence.

India squandered our gains in every war with Pakistan except under Indira Gandhi when she created Bangladesh and even there, we returned territory we gained in w. Pakistan. Foreign nations are always going to look after their own interests. Is it our fault or theirs that we have let pakistan off easy in every way when we had a noose around their neck? We could have exchanged PoK for the w. Pakistan territory, for example in 1972... let us not blame just the foreign meddlers. If we had competent command in India, we would still have gotten our way. We did not and we ended up with what we had.

A_Gupta wrote:Arun.Prabhu asked
And what is this story about UK-US wanting Pakistan to counter the spread of communism. You give the Americans and the English too much credit and our people too little.


There is a bunch of British secret papers published just in 2018.
Towards a Ceasefire in Kashmir, British Official Reports from South Asia, 18 September – 31 December 1948
edited by L. Carter.

Bear with me, this is a little long, even though I'm try to keep the excerpts short. It is relevant to the question above.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby vijayk » 10 Aug 2019 17:36

Hindu, Scroll, Pappu ...

Irrespective of how many times Indian voters rejected them, these low lifes have not learnt a single lesson


Harsh Gupta मधुसूदन
@harshmadhusudan

First The Hindu completely distorts the actual speech completely.

Then Scroll quotes Hindu.

Then a Pakistani journalist quotes Scroll.

Mission accomplished.

PS: This is how Indian medieval history has also been written by our communist intellectuals and fellow “historians”.
Quote Tweet

Hamid Mir
@HamidMirPAK
· 5h
Shame on all powerful Indians who are planning forced marriages with Kashmiri girls after removing article 370 and 35A ⁦@UN⁩ ⁦@UNHumanRights⁩ ⁦@hrw⁩ ⁦@amnesty⁩ ⁦@UN_Women⁩ ⁦@womenrightswtch⁩ ⁦@WomenRights4⁩ (link: https://scroll.in/latest/933418/now-we- ... al-khattar) scroll.in/latest/933418/…



विनोद शर्मा
@vinod_sharma

No use trying to educate
@rahulgandhi
Khattar ji. His mind has been so poisoned by his alien tutors and handlers, and so addled by smoking illegal stuff, that the word 'RSS' invokes in him emotions of the kind that the word 'Kafir' does in secular Professor Haifz Saeed.
Quote Tweet

Manohar Lal
@mlkhattar
· 2h
Dear @RahulGandhi ji, at least at your level, you shouldn’t react on distorted news. I’m attaching the video of what I actually said, and In what context - this will give you clarity of mind. (link: https://twitter.com/RahulGandhi/status/ ... 7470189568) twitter.com/RahulGandhi/st…


@barbarindian

It actually underlines what we call journalism is in reality #FakeNews factory. Social media did not light this fire, headline magic by MSM did. Shame on you.

Shekhar Gupta
@ShekharGupta

The full video clip of Haryana CM Manohar Lal Khattar underlines the perils of igniting social media outrages before facts are clear. What he said & clearly meant is contrary to what it’s been construed to mean...
Last edited by vijayk on 10 Aug 2019 17:47, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby chetak » 10 Aug 2019 17:38

twitter

watch video

Former Indian Minister Arif Khan @amkindia51 narrates how revoking #Article370 will empower the people of J & K . Don't be hoodwinked by the radical left, writes @PriyaaKulkarni2. Kashmiris should listen to their well wishers.

https://twitter.com/TarekFatah/status/1159287561677918208

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby vijayk » 10 Aug 2019 17:41

Hope after hope ... hope some big riots happen and I can brag. If this passes off peacefully, Modi has too much credibility

barkha dutt
@BDUTT
Article 370- What Do Kashmiris Think? Most Common refrain I found was: "They Have taken away our Taaj (Crown)"- Another said: "You want Land, not people". But I not the signs of an immediate eruption. Real test after Eid and may be a very slow burn

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby vijayk » 10 Aug 2019 17:46

chetak wrote:twitter

watch video

Former Indian Minister Arif Khan @amkindia51 narrates how revoking #Article370 will empower the people of J & K . Don't be hoodwinked by the radical left, writes @PriyaaKulkarni2. Kashmiris should listen to their well wishers.

https://twitter.com/TarekFatah/status/1159287561677918208


calling these scums leftists, liberals is a disgrace. Most are heinous looters

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby A_Gupta » 10 Aug 2019 17:49

Arun.prabhu wrote:So the English looked out for themselves. And Nehru was an incompetent ass wrt military affairs. Both these facts aren’t exactly surprises. The man who provoked the Chinese on the border without building up forces of things went south and who listened to sycophants rather than actual competent officers did not bother to listen to his officers immediately after independence and did not trust his own intelligence or perhaps there was a failure of intelligence.


Well, it would be a difficult political decision to the Kashmir war into Punjab. I think also strategic clarity - whether India wanted to decimate Pakistan or not - was not there.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby chetak » 10 Aug 2019 18:41

vijayk wrote:Hope after hope ... hope some big riots happen and I can brag. If this passes off peacefully, Modi has too much credibility

barkha dutt
@BDUTT
Article 370- What Do Kashmiris Think? Most Common refrain I found was: "They Have taken away our Taaj (Crown)"- Another said: "You want Land, not people". But I not the signs of an immediate eruption. Real test after Eid and may be a very slow burn


what do these geniuses think that the pakis' want, their sorry asses or their land and water

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby vijayk » 10 Aug 2019 18:57


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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby vijayk » 10 Aug 2019 19:03

https://m.khaleejtimes.com/region/saudi ... mir-issue-

Saudi Arabia calls for peaceful solution to Kashmir issue
SPA

Last updated on August 9, 2019 at 06.41 am

Saudi Arabia on Thursday called on the concerned parties in Jammu and Kashmir to maintain peace and stability in the region, and to take into account the interests of the people of the region.

An official source at the Foreign Ministry said that Saudi Arabia is following up the current situation in Jammu and Kashmir, resulting from India's move to revoke Article 370 of the Constitution, which guaranteed the autonomy to the state of Jammu and Kashmir.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby NRao » 10 Aug 2019 19:33

Arun.prabhu wrote:With all due respect, NRao, I'm not the one enamored of a narrative or denying reality. If Afghanistan becomes an Indian satrapy or client state after American exit, I'll eat crow, but I don't think they will. Time will tell.

NRao wrote:AP ji,

With all due respect, I happen to think that Modi has rewritten the book on logic.

All that stuff about Pakistan and (Afghan) Taliban (and what is this about Syria, Russia and Turkey? Here? In this convo?) is all Mithya.

I mean anyone who wants to believe in that narrative is OK to follow it, but, honestly, it does not apply here. IMHO of course. Modi has given the rest a choice India or Pakistan. Your chal (that of other nations).

And, that is how it should be.


That is not my understanding of what Modi is saying..

I think what Modi has told (already - not a thought or some nebulous stuff) everyone is, make a choice: India (or include India) and India will do her best to contribute. Else India has her own interests and she will chase those interests. And, let the chips fall ..............

So, in the case of A'sthan, I do not think Modi is thinking in terms of our A'sthan. I happen to think he is fine with not including India in that convo. BUT, what he is saying is that there will be repercussions (based on what happens) and India will deal with those with Indian interests in mind.

And, in Modi's mind, no Indian will eat or need to eat crow. That others can do if they want.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby UlanBatori » 10 Aug 2019 19:45

New18: Jammu and Kashmir LIVE: Restrictions Completely Lifted from 10 Districts in Jammu, Says J&K Police. 5 towns in Jammu still not quite there.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby UlanBatori » 10 Aug 2019 19:48

OT I know but FYI:
How YY deal with Reuters Lies:

https://www.jewishpress.com/blogs/my-ri ... 013/06/25/

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby UlanBatori » 10 Aug 2019 20:07

Beloveds!!! Don't waste time here. See Reuters fB page pls ... :mrgreen:

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Arun.prabhu » 10 Aug 2019 20:20

War is always a political decision. We lacked strategic clarity and did not have that killer instinct. Now, we have both, thanks to this govt. better late than never, I suppose.

A_Gupta wrote:
Arun.prabhu wrote:So the English looked out for themselves. And Nehru was an incompetent ass wrt military affairs. Both these facts aren’t exactly surprises. The man who provoked the Chinese on the border without building up forces of things went south and who listened to sycophants rather than actual competent officers did not bother to listen to his officers immediately after independence and did not trust his own intelligence or perhaps there was a failure of intelligence.


Well, it would be a difficult political decision to the Kashmir war into Punjab. I think also strategic clarity - whether India wanted to decimate Pakistan or not - was not there.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Arun.prabhu » 10 Aug 2019 20:25

Nothing wrong with eating crow if I’m wrong. And I’ll do it happily because it would mean India won stinking in Afghanistan. :)

I agree with what Modi is saying wrt friends and enemies and I suppose neutrals, but my fears remain wrt Afghanistan.

NRao wrote:
Arun.prabhu wrote:With all due respect, NRao, I'm not the one enamored of a narrative or denying reality. If Afghanistan becomes an Indian satrapy or client state after American exit, I'll eat crow, but I don't think they will. Time will tell.



That is not my understanding of what Modi is saying..

I think what Modi has told (already - not a thought or some nebulous stuff) everyone is, make a choice: India (or include India) and India will do her best to contribute. Else India has her own interests and she will chase those interests. And, let the chips fall ..............

So, in the case of A'sthan, I do not think Modi is thinking in terms of our A'sthan. I happen to think he is fine with not including India in that convo. BUT, what he is saying is that there will be repercussions (based on what happens) and India will deal with those with Indian interests in mind.

And, in Modi's mind, no Indian will eat or need to eat crow. That others can do if they want.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Karthik S » 10 Aug 2019 20:56

अर्ध-सन्यासी (Half Hermit)
@bababanaras
New stocks in godown under emergency purchase power. Thank you my dear friend. #PB500A1 #M85

Long live friendship.


More PGMs from Israel?

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Guddu » 10 Aug 2019 21:00

vijayk wrote:


This is perhaps the best video I have seen in a long time......

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Manny » 10 Aug 2019 21:20

A non-violent movement is gaining ground in Pakistan

https://newint.org/features/2019/04/02/ ... d-pakistan

I met Manzoor Pashteen, Pakistan’s most popular non-violent activist, in Islamabad. He is in his 20s, and comes wearing a red cap and blue shalwar kameez. Propelled to the centre of Pakistan’s political sphere, Manzoor has become the voice of a generation through his leadership of the Pashtun Tahafuz (Protection) Movement (PTM).

With his calls for justice in the tribal belt - one of Pakistan’s most troubled regions – Manzoor grew the movement from 20 to 20,000 supporters.

Arising out of the Pakistani state’s long-running and fraught relationship with Pasthuns, an ethnic minority from the country’s northern regions, the movement hit the headlines following the murder of Naqeebullah Mehsud, a Pashtun aspiring model-cum-shopkeeper from the northern region of Waziristan who was gunned down by police in Karachi.

Mehsud’s home region, Waziristan, is also the birthplace of PTM. It’s an area that in the 21st century had no judiciary, until recently with the appointment of seven tribal judges. Previously, legal jurisdiction was governed by Frontier Crimes Regulation Law enforcement which a remained a symbolic duty subject to governance informed by British colonial-era legacy. This law was contentious because it denied communities access to courts, creating a situation whereby collective punishment was enforced including property destruction.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Manny » 10 Aug 2019 21:26

Pashtuns rise up against war, Taliban and Pakistani military

https://newint.org/features/2019/04/02/ ... d-pakistan

A new movement has sprung up in Pakistan's Pashtun-dominated northern areas. Its supporters, wary of their region being used as a battleground for years, have taken on both the Taliban and the nation's powerful military.

Image

PTM leader Pashteen doesn't mince his words and has made it clear who he holds responsible for the Pashtun suffering: "We have to identify the place that destroyed us," Pashteen said at a recent rally. "It is GHQ!" he said, referring to the Pakistani military headquarters in Rawalpindi.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby EswarPrakash » 10 Aug 2019 21:50

UlanBatori wrote:Beloveds!!! Don't waste time here. See Reuters fB page pls ... :mrgreen:


I think I saw a glimpse of N^3 there? Is it our N^3?

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby NRao » 10 Aug 2019 22:17

An interesting take.

Trump's influence is spreading like a virus

In 1981, Donald Trump revealed his view on life when he told People magazine, "Man is the most vicious of all animals, and life is a series of battles ending in victory or defeat. You can't just let people make a sucker of you." Trump, who shared similar sentiments as recently as last November, holds a dim view of humanity -- and this is reflected in both his compulsive effort to create conflicts and his brutish politics. It also seems to be spreading, at home and abroad, like a virus that generates fevers of fear and hatred.


Narendra Modi, prime minister of India, ended the autonomy of the Muslim-majority state of Kashmir on Monday by revoking its constitutionally guaranteed special status. This move ends a 70-year agreement that protected Kashmiris and made the border region with a hostile Pakistan more stable. In Foreign Policy, an expert on Kashmir notes that Modi is acting on Hindu nationalist dreams.


Then he goes on to include a who-is-who list of world leaders, forgetting to add a few.

The train left the station long back. These guys have been sleeping.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby UlanBatori » 10 Aug 2019 23:16

Gee! When u r on the YellowSea with pakis filling your gunsights, u don't stand around saying: "Oh, is that Appu?"
You make full use of the Target-Rich Environment.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby pankajs » 11 Aug 2019 00:30

menon s wrote:Hajam Sethi--a friday times Editorial..

Unfortunately, the Miltablishment is at its wits end. Having put all its eggs in Imran Khan’s flaky basket and approved his decimation of the opposition and gagging of the media, it has left itself with few allies or options in the event of a strategic or tactical mishap, when Mr Khan will have to be scapegoated. The longer it takes to realise this unfolding crisis of National Power, the more problematic the solution will be when it explodes.

https://www.thefridaytimes.com/crisis-o ... nal-power/

Just got a chance to read this. The other interesting portion and that too coming from a baki.
The Miltablishment is desperate to cement the status quo with India while it focusses on resolving Afghanistan to its advantage and enabling an “honourable” exit for the US. But Mr Modi has thrown a spanner in the works.

Public disquiet over Miltablishment policies regarding India and the US, suspicions that perhaps some other secret deal to “sell-out” on Kashmir has also been struck with Washington, coupled with rising anger over IMF sponsored economic policies, is a powder keg. The Opposition and media have already been hounded to the wall and are looking for an opportunity to stick the knife. The country is bitterly divided at home and isolated abroad. India’s leaders sense this as a particularly weak moment for Pakistan and are aiming to exploit it fully.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby ramana » 11 Aug 2019 02:59

Now that the President has signed the J&K Re-Organization Act, am closing this thread.
Thanks for the valuable participation.

ramana


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