Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby prasannasimha » 06 Aug 2019 17:49

Muppalla wrote:
Anujan wrote:^^^^
Actually not quite true. 370 is more nuanced and very complicated. I dont claim to be an expert on it.




All in all a kichdi manoeuver. Let's see if it stands the test of the courts.


Courts can't do much. The AP reorganization bill is still in Supreme Court. Harish Salve on NDTV explained it very well. Even Manu Singhvi concedes that not much can come from courts.

Next step is president's rule in Kerala and declare Kannur as UT with no Assembly. :rotfl:

The template to play with demographics is all set now. With NRC on the horizon and with removing blackmailable democracy for the separatist minding population we are now in a new India.


Constitution and even SC has commented that three things privy purses ( removed by Parliament), Instruments of accession and state reorganization are absolutely the domain of parliament and not judiciary. In fact AP division challenges were sent back as it was not in their purview.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby menon s » 06 Aug 2019 17:52

It was great watching Zaid Zaman Hamid.....crying...." How stupid we were to bank on Trump? We have actually walked into a trap?"

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby pankajs » 06 Aug 2019 18:04

A couple of more chanakyan ...

1. Lets agree for the moment that Frump/Jooyes decided to insert itself into the Indo-pak bilateral on the request of the bakis. Mudi by his actions has clearly told the Jooyes and the bakis what it thinks of the whole thing. All this while India strives to "cultivate" a good relationship with Jooyes and Mudi with Frump.

Now China is watching this fascinating game from the sideline. What lessons does it draw? That India will not hesitate to take steps to protect its interests even when dealing with a much powerful country and one that India is trying to cultivate. China certainly does not fall in the same league as the US, neither on its heft nor the warmth that is is viewed by Indian people and elites. This superb action to protect its interest is also a message from India to China that it is not longer hesitant to act when it feels the need. Do not underestimate such messages.

2. Closer to home, the surgical strike against the entrenched interest on Kashmir was executed with finesse. This was after all a political & legal strike when considered in the local context. This is just as Ram Janambhoomi hearings are about to begin. The message would not be lost on the milards. They are after-all citizens of India.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby pankajs » 06 Aug 2019 18:07

menon s wrote:It was great watching Zaid Zaman Hamid.....crying...." How stupid we were to bank on Trump? We have actually walked into a trap?"

Must link videos if you can.

However, Bakis did not walk into a trap. They laid the trap for Frump and he walked into it. IIRC, the whole thing was initiated by baki jurnos primed by the baki "establishment" to ask Frump leading questions.

They just fell into the hole they had dug for India or so they thought. :rotfl:

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby pankajs » 06 Aug 2019 18:18

https://twitter.com/HamidMirPAK/status/ ... 0227909632
Hamid Mir @HamidMirPAK

Govt of Pakistan considering to call back High Commissioner from India

Unbelievable. The gift that keeps giving! More tactical maneuvering to fool their own public. To teach India a lesson and claim victory. Theek hai.

The bakis had through that their tactical brilliance in DC will give them a win over India even if only on airwaves. That bleddy Mudi did not even allow that. Now they are in a bind. How to save their H&D infornt of their own mango apduls now that Indian has pulled their chaddis down and proved that the clown jewels are missing!
Last edited by pankajs on 06 Aug 2019 18:23, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby vijayk » 06 Aug 2019 18:20

This proved that ITALIANS can'r even practice Taqiyya. Their hatred of India/Hindus and alignment with Pakis/EJs is so strong that they can't even pretend to take the side of India.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby mmasand » 06 Aug 2019 18:21

UAE Ambassador to India reacts to Kashmir decision

New Delhi: The UAE has taken note of the Indian government’s decision of non-operationalisation of some sections of Article 370 of the Indian Constitution related to the state of Jammu and Kashmir, said Dr Ahmad Al Banna, the UAE ambassador to India.

Dr Al Banna added: “We also took note of the introduction of Jammu and Kashmir Reorganisation Bill in the Indian Parliament aimed at replacing Article 370 with the creation of Ladakh region and the state of Jammu and Kashmir as India’s two new Union Territories.”

He commented that from his understanding the reorganisation of states is not a unique incident in the history of independent India and that it was mainly aimed at reducing regional disparity and improving efficiency. He viewed this latest decision related to the state of Jammu and Kashmir as an internal matter as stipulated by the Indian Constitution.

The ambassador expressed hope that this decision of the Indian government would help improve the social and economic conditions and welfare of the people of the state of Jammu and Kashmir as well as Ladakh. “We expect that the changes would improve social justice and security and confidence of the people in the local governance and will encourage further stability and peace,” he added.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby sudhan » 06 Aug 2019 18:23

pankajs wrote:https://twitter.com/HamidMirPAK/status/1158689560227909632
Hamid Mir @HamidMirPAK

Govt of Pakistan considering to call back High Commissioner from India

Unbelievable. The gift that keeps giving! More tactical maneuvering to fool their own public. To teach India a lesson and claim victory. Theek hai.


Oh dear! Those merciless monsters!! What do we do onree??

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :rotfl:

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Bart S » 06 Aug 2019 18:24

pankajs wrote:https://twitter.com/HamidMirPAK/status/1158689560227909632
Hamid Mir @HamidMirPAK

Govt of Pakistan considering to call back High Commissioner from India

Unbelievable. The gift that keeps giving! More tactical maneuvering to fool their own public. To teach India a lesson and claim victory. Theek hai.

The bakis had through that their tactical brilliance in DC will give them a win over India even if only on airwaves. That bleddy Mudi did not even allow that. Now they are in a bind. How to save their H&D infornt of their own mango apduls now that Indian has pulled their chaddis down and proved that the clown jewels are missing!


Well, there is NO Paki HC in India at the moment anyway, so it only proves how stupid he is. They really are clutching at straws.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Sanju » 06 Aug 2019 18:37

Guys this thread is only in its 4th page, so please read through. The video above is on the previous page and that too at its end.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby pankajs » 06 Aug 2019 18:41

Amit Shah is replying .. that man is prepared and brilliant as always.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Neela » 06 Aug 2019 18:45

A hat is thrown in the ring

https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/sta ... 1283545092

@globaltimesnews
China opposes #India putting Chinese territory in the western section of the border under its administration, which affects China's territorial integrity and sovereignty. It is "unacceptable and void:" FM (File photo: VCG) #Ladakh

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby darshan » 06 Aug 2019 19:11

Congress and TMC intolerance: 5 BJYM leaders arrested in Bengal, several detained in Punjab for celebrating dilution of Article 370
https://www.opindia.com/2019/08/congres ... ticle-370/

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby prasannasimha » 06 Aug 2019 19:19

351 Ayes 72 Noes and 1 abstains
J and K reorganization bill passed with 2/3rd (83%) majority in both LS and RS !

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Amber G. » 06 Aug 2019 19:21

Meanwhile in Paki Parliament...
...Human rights minister Shireen Mzazari said the opposition was there to make noise and not discuss the Kashmir issue.

... Railways minister Sheikh Rasheed highlighted the need to mention Article 370, which according to him was the most significant matter that needed to be discussed in the session...

But...
Turmoil in Pakistan parliament as Kashmir resolution fails to mention Article 370
The Speaker of the National Assembly or lower house of Parliament, Asad Qaiser, adjourned the session for 20 minutes after the opposition objected to the resolution, saying it did not mention Article 370 of India’s Constitution that accorded special status to the state.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Amber G. » 06 Aug 2019 19:27

Decades old photo of NaMo..."Promises Kept"
Image

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby shravanp » 06 Aug 2019 19:35

prasannasimha wrote:351 Ayes 72 Noes and 1 abstains
J and K reorganization bill passed with 2/3rd (83%) majority in both LS and RS !



That is huge! With 2/3rd majority, we could have sneaked in NJAC bill too :mrgreen:

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby darshan » 06 Aug 2019 19:37

How many percentage of the new generation even understand 370? Thinking about the congress meltdown. Seeing so many out there taking this as I can now tour Kashmir.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby pankajs » 06 Aug 2019 19:49

From Bakistan ... Not the usual rant.

Last edited by pankajs on 06 Aug 2019 19:49, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Anujan » 06 Aug 2019 19:49

I'd like to see a resolution in Pakistans parliament demanding article 370 be restored.

You know, the same article which states JK is a part of India.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby darshan » 06 Aug 2019 19:52

Hypocrisy and brainwashing on full display by BIF.

LGBT Rights Advocacy Group trolled by people from the LGBT community for celebrating the complete integration of JK
https://www.opindia.com/2019/08/lgbt-ri ... ion-of-jk/

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby nam » 06 Aug 2019 19:55

Thinking about this, PA has to do something overt to save the H&D.

There might be some frontal assault toward loc positions with PR of holy warriors driving towards the fight. Have the fight long enough to cause a crisis and try to have a ceasefire with the condition of 370.

They won't capture any land, but would make for PR and H&D among the awaam. Just like Feb fight get US and Saudi involved to prevent a large Indian response.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby pankajs » 06 Aug 2019 19:55

Another one of Hajam Sethi.


Ignore the usual baki spin

1. Pressure on Bakistan to do something form the Kashmiris.
2. India will heatup the LOC
3. Baki Jihadi will start their campaign again.
4. All of the above will put tremendous pressure of the Baki Government.

This at the time when Bakistan has given assurances to International community on Kashmir, Jihadis, etc. Bakis agenda will get derailed.

Hajam does make sense to an extent. FATF/IMF on one side, Broken economy, Kashmir sentiment amongst its own population, the Jihadi pressure for revenge and India to the other side. Dimran/Pajwa on the hot seat right now.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby pankajs » 06 Aug 2019 20:06

Perhaps Pajwa will sacrifice Dimran and preserve H&D.

Reality sinking in that Frump promised nothing.



Now will this impact the US/PAK AfPak deal?

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby pankajs » 06 Aug 2019 20:15

Another Agony pareeksha ...

https://twitter.com/JM_Scindia/status/1 ... 0507182080
Jyotiraditya M. Scindia @JM_Scindia

I support the move on #JammuAndKashmir & #Ladakh and its full integration into union of India.

Would have been better if constitutional process had been followed. No questions could have been raised then. Nevertheless, this is in our country’s interest and I support this.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby kit » 06 Aug 2019 20:25

pankajs wrote:Perhaps Pajwa will sacrifice Dimran and preserve H&D.

Reality sinking in that Frump promised nothing.



Now will this impact the US/PAK AfPak deal?


With no Kashmir to bargain with Pakistan has everything to lose, either way, the deeper and taller friend is sullen at the overtures to the Trumper, the UK trying to get rid of itself, and the Americans are left holding the trumpet :mrgreen:

I suspect India will deepen the engagement in Afghanistan and create a second front at the Pakis other end :mrgreen:

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby kit » 06 Aug 2019 20:29

nam wrote:Thinking about this, PA has to do something overt to save the H&D.

There might be some frontal assault toward loc positions with PR of holy warriors driving towards the fight. Have the fight long enough to cause a crisis and try to have a ceasefire with the condition of 370.

They won't capture any land, but would make for PR and H&D among the awaam. Just like Feb fight get US and Saudi involved to prevent a large Indian response.


i think the GOI has gamed their response to the extent they will pre-empt any such move, besides they will in all probability create more trouble for the pakis in a few other fronts, Baluchistan, Karachi, AfPak border, Iran/pak border, Sindh , the pakis will be roasted from multiple sides.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Pulikeshi » 06 Aug 2019 20:40

Im the Dim true to form:
"If the world does not act today... (if) the developed world does not uphold its own laws, then things will go to a place that we will not be responsible for," Khan added.


Amazing clarity of thought - if the US and UK do not fix law and order random shootings, etc. and clean Brexit,
Im the Dim and his Mai Baap Pakjabi Surrender Pigs Will not be responsible for things going to places!

So what did this famous Surrender Pigs claim:

"Pakistan Army firmly stands by the Kashmiris in their just struggle to the very end. We are prepared and shall go to any extent to fulfil our obligations in this regard," General Qamar Javed Bajwa said, in a tweet sent by a military spokesman after ...


The Surrender Pigs will fight to the last Kashmiri apple grower while securely ensconced in Pindi! :rotfl:

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby pankajs » 06 Aug 2019 20:41

Our man ....

Bakistan has to use its "trump" card to make Indian back off.


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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby pankajs » 06 Aug 2019 20:45

More ... "Bakistan has no choice" per the genius meaning it HAS to act.


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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Mollick.R » 06 Aug 2019 20:52

Neela wrote:A hat is thrown in the ring

https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/sta ... 1283545092

@globaltimesnews
China opposes #India putting Chinese territory in the western section of the border under its administration, which affects China's territorial integrity and sovereignty. It is "unacceptable and void:" FM (File photo: VCG) #Ladakh




For this kind of arrogance shown Lizard should pay the price.
Not immediately but in future definitely.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby pankajs » 06 Aug 2019 20:54

More Rudhali but also threat ...


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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby pankajs » 06 Aug 2019 21:20

More chest thumping plus Rudhali but no substance. Watch only if you have time to waste.


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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby ChanakyaM » 06 Aug 2019 21:36

sudeepj wrote:
khan wrote:
Does this mean if Modi (or a later Congress Government) wants to ram through any other substantial Constitutional Amendment dealing with say distribution of power between Center & States, they can:

1. Get it approved by 2/3 majority in Parliament.

2. Declare President rule in enough states so that 1/2 the state legislatures or Governors in states with Presidents rule rubber stamp the Amendment.

And viola voila - the constitution is changed. Does this seem right?

To me, these types of games are the difference between a serious country like India & a banana republic like Pakistan.


You cant just declare presidents rule in states without cause any more. Please see the established case law about use of 356 now.

370 itself had a provision that the president can promulgate any law related to 370 as applicable in concurrence with the state govt. 370 has not been repealed, but all of its provisions have been made infructuous or invalid. We still have a 370. :twisted:

Apropos the UT and division issue, Andhra was divided into two without the concurrence of the state assembly. Here, the govt. has gone farther and 'demoted' the state. We shall see what happens.

If one puts aside the complicated constitutional issues, prima facie, this step was long needed as the valley politicians had pissed in the punch bowl and ruined democracy there. How can one be part of a vast ethnic cleansing, deny all kinds of rights to minorities and historically oppressed, and still argue that they are doing it democratically? And any step to stop these things is actually undemocratic

The Kashmir boil long needed a lansing and I hope these steps by the union perform the requisite disinfection of the polity of that state.
trust the khangress to shoot itself in the foot by overlooking this clause. :D

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby SBajwa » 06 Aug 2019 21:59

A_Gupta wrote:The danger is if the Supreme Court issued a stay order while it listens to arguments, deliberates, etc.


Can supreme court issue a stay order on Presidential decree as well as passing of the bill by Rajya Sabha? I doubt if Supreme Court has authority to do so! Supreme Court and Parliament are independent and have equal rights.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Kati » 06 Aug 2019 22:37

SBajwa wrote:
A_Gupta wrote:The danger is if the Supreme Court issued a stay order while it listens to arguments, deliberates, etc.


Can supreme court issue a stay order on Presidential decree as well as passing of the bill by Rajya Sabha? I doubt if Supreme Court has authority to do so! Supreme Court and Parliament are independent and have equal rights.


Members of the Parliament are called the lawmakers, and SC can only interpret the laws within the framework of the Constitution, it can't scrap a law already passed by the Parliament.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Sachin » 06 Aug 2019 22:41

Kati wrote:Members of the Parliament are called the lawmakers, and SC can only interpret the laws within the framework of the Constitution, it can't scrap a law already passed by the Parliament.

The SC does interfere if the law made by the Parliament violates any fundamental rights enshrined in the Constituition. For example look how they dealt with NJAC law; which was directly hitting them.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby abhijitm » 06 Aug 2019 22:44

Neela wrote:A hat is thrown in the ring

https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/sta ... 1283545092

@globaltimesnews
China opposes #India putting Chinese territory in the western section of the border under its administration, which affects China's territorial integrity and sovereignty. It is "unacceptable and void:" FM (File photo: VCG) #Ladakh

They have to at least issue a customary statement as we are talking about a territory officially controlled by them and officially claimed by us.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby abhijitm » 06 Aug 2019 22:59

Kati wrote:
SBajwa wrote:
Can supreme court issue a stay order on Presidential decree as well as passing of the bill by Rajya Sabha? I doubt if Supreme Court has authority to do so! Supreme Court and Parliament are independent and have equal rights.


Members of the Parliament are called the lawmakers, and SC can only interpret the laws within the framework of the Constitution, it can't scrap a law already passed by the Parliament.

I think SC can if the law or the change breaks any constitutional framwork. But I could be wrong.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Suraj » 06 Aug 2019 23:01

SBajwa wrote:
A_Gupta wrote:The danger is if the Supreme Court issued a stay order while it listens to arguments, deliberates, etc.

Can supreme court issue a stay order on Presidential decree as well as passing of the bill by Rajya Sabha? I doubt if Supreme Court has authority to do so! Supreme Court and Parliament are independent and have equal rights.

Please read further back on this thread before repeating the same question. This applies to everyone.

On paper, only Article 1 and Article 370 applied to J&K. No other article / schedule / appendix of the Indian constitution did. However, Three major Presidential Orders were made between 1950-1954 broadening the reach of the Indian constitution to J&K. The Constituent Assembly of J&K dissolved in 1956. Between then and mid 1990s, nearly FIFTY Presidential Orders were passed amending the 1954.

The interesting part is this - all of these orders are potentially constitutionally unsound - because the letter of the article states that the contituent assembly's view is sought but the CA-JK itself doesn't exist - but none were ever challenged. The BJP arguably would not mind the new 2019 Presidential Order being challenged, because they would happily like for all the presidential orders to be challenged, and specifically for Art 35A to be therefore invalidated all over again.


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