Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Manu
BRFite
Posts: 765
Joined: 28 May 2003 11:31

Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Manu » 10 Aug 2019 03:18

CRamS wrote:I love Fair Didi's straight talking :-)

‏https://twitter.com/CChristineFair/status/1159781955489193984

@CChristineFair
Follow Follow @CChristineFair
More (((Christine Fair))) Retweeted varun reddy mothe
He has a penis.(((Christine Fair))) added,

@mothevarun
Replying to @CChristineFair
Why is kugelboy going around news channels talking rubbish in the US ?.you are million times smarter than him on every issue about South Asia
4:02 AM - 9 Aug 2019I

You are being charmed by a Nagin, beware. In my eyes, she loses all credibility when she starts wailing about 'White Nationalists' and Trump=Hitler.

syam
BRFite
Posts: 749
Joined: 31 Jan 2017 00:13

Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby syam » 10 Aug 2019 03:38

CRamS loves everything except what brf folks say. he is really tough crowd. more power to him.

kit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3948
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 18:16

Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby kit » 10 Aug 2019 04:15

UlanBatori wrote:Meanwhile, news media found something to report!


Kashmir: Fury and frustration in Islamabad as thousands turn out to protest
An estimated 8,000 demonstrators came out onto the streets of the capital despite a torrential downpour.
One young man told me: "Yes, we are angry here. We don't want to fight. The last option is to fight…but if we have to, we will get Kashmir by the sword, by ammunition and guns." These are worrying words.
{Oooooooo!!! Such PEACEFUL people getting angry!}


those poor souls were brain washed even before they were born., now lets see where they ll turn their ire on :mrgreen: .. the Paki armys a$$ is being cooked slowly

Manish_Sharma
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4542
Joined: 07 Sep 2009 16:17

Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Manish_Sharma » 10 Aug 2019 04:38

Manu wrote:
CRamS wrote:I love Fair Didi's straight talking :-)

‏https://twitter.com/CChristineFair/status/1159781955489193984

@CChristineFair
Follow Follow @CChristineFair
More (((Christine Fair))) Retweeted varun reddy mothe
He has a penis.(((Christine Fair))) added,

@mothevarun
Replying to @CChristineFair
Why is kugelboy going around news channels talking rubbish in the US ?.you are million times smarter than him on every issue about South Asia
4:02 AM - 9 Aug 2019I

You are being charmed by a Nagin, beware. In my eyes, she loses all credibility when she starts wailing about 'White Nationalists' and Trump=Hitler.


You are so right Manu ji, a year ago in a conference first she thrashed pakistan over kashmir then slimily sneaked in suggestion THAT CHINA SHOULD MEDIATE BETWEEN PAK AND INDIA ON KASHMIR ISSUE.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby UlanBatori » 10 Aug 2019 04:57

Manuji: Glad to see the interest in the Grand Solution. Yes, in my model, the days of KSA are numbered. It is an anachronism, inimical to open information and thought. Hooking long-term strategic alliance on them is not smart. The problem to solve is to reconcile Iran and Balochistan. I wasn't aware BTW that Baloch are mostly Sunni: have to think about that. If Baloch now in Pakistan are Sunni, how can KSA be supporting them?
Iran is shia today, but I feel that underlying Persian culture and tradition will one day get over the shia fundamentalism. Maybe the sunni-shia war will destroy the power of the Ummah overall and allow more ancient civilizations to emerge, say in Iraq and Iran and maybe even Azerbaijan. As for Arabia I don't know of any ancient civilization.

Arun.prabhu
BRFite
Posts: 445
Joined: 28 Aug 2016 19:26

Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Arun.prabhu » 10 Aug 2019 05:22

I have a tendency to sound impatient and rude. You’ll have to forgive me for that. It is unintentional. Do take your time to frame a response. As my post count and patterns show, I post when Something piques my interest or whenever I’m free. All of us have personal lives and that is more important most of the time than telling someone what’s what. :)

disha wrote:
Sir'ji., please calm down. I do want to put things objectively and dispassionately. The perfidious role of former-UK and US needs to be acknowledged. And so also the dumb mistakes of the Indian polity at least until the late 60s.

But all of the above will take a little bit more time for me to put together here and for me time is a constraint. So I do want to answer your queries patiently, just humbly request you to be little bit indulgent to me.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby UlanBatori » 10 Aug 2019 05:46

Fair didi is culinary institute, guaranteed.

Kashi
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3622
Joined: 06 May 2011 13:53

Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Kashi » 10 Aug 2019 05:51

Madam Unfair's uncanny ability to change colours would put a Chameleon to shame.

She's best kept at two arms length.

ldev
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2006
Joined: 06 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby ldev » 10 Aug 2019 05:55

Why go through all these convoluted efforts to get all these convoluted alliances going? The driver is the Yay-hoo-dee + New-con interests combined that are driving current U-Sam policy. All enemies of Yay-hoo-dee have been systemically destroyed since 2003. B Hussain tried to be even handed with Iran but even he succumbed on Syria. And the even handed approach to KSA vs Iran under B Hussain has been reversed under the current admin. Because Iran is the last anti Yay-hoo-dee nation standing. All others are destroyed/co-opted. Unless you have a strong enough lobby with U-Sam, forget about establishing far fetched alliances such as Iran-Afghanistan-India. Not going to happen.

Russia is strong enough and only interested enough in protecting it's immediate interests i.e. literally it's immediate boundaries. Syria while a brilliant victory is about the most what it can manage and what it is interested in.

Modi/Shah have done what is practical from India's standpoint i.e. made J&K non-negotiable. If that put's a spanner in Pakistan's ambition to take over Afghanistan, so be it.

Manu
BRFite
Posts: 765
Joined: 28 May 2003 11:31

Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Manu » 10 Aug 2019 06:05

https://openthemagazine.com/essays/politics-essays/kashmir-regained/
COVER STORY
Kashmir Regained

But the wounds inflicted over the last seven decades by three cliques who used and abused power will not be easily healed
MJ Akbar | 09 Aug, 2019

AT 1 PM ON DECEMBER 23rd, 1947 Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel, Deputy Prime Minister, sent his resignation to Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru, through a letter written in ‘considerable pain’. The reason was a sharp divergence on how to handle Kashmir.

The status of Jammu and Kashmir was fluid when India and Pakistan became independent. Like the Nizam of Hyderabad, Maharaja Hari Singh also imagined that he could wrench an independent state out of the chaos created by the formation of Pakistan. He had signed a Standstill Agreement with Pakistan, a self-evident term. The status quo would, thereby, be preserved until an agreement was evolved. Patel, as Home Minister, was more concerned, for the moment, with Hyderabad, whose Nizam was not only negotiating a separate Dominion status for his state with the British, but was also rapidly arming his mainly Muslim official troops and the communal force created for the subjugation of the local population and as a resistance force against the Indian Army. Jinnah was determined to add Hyderabad to Pakistan or keep it a Nizamate. This was not geographically impossible since East Pakistan was twice as far away from Karachi. Even a truncated Hyderabad would serve as a dagger in the heart of the Indian mainland.

Patel’s mind cleared on September 13th, 1947 when Jinnah accepted the accession of Junagadh, a Hindu-majority princely state adjoining Pakistan ruled by a Muslim Nawab. If Pakistan could ignore demographics, what stopped India from doing the same? Kashmir had a Hindu Maharaja ruling over a Muslim majority. If Hari Singh acceded to India, Delhi could always use the same logic and accept. Being practical and decisive, Patel immediately began to lay down what might be called the infrastructure of Kashmir’s accession. Wireless, telegraph and telephone links were immediately established between Amritsar and Jammu; and he virtually ordered Mehr Chand Mahajan to take eight months’ leave from the Punjab High Court and go to Srinagar as Hari Singh’s Prime Minister. On September 21st, he wrote to Hari Singh saying that ‘I have promised him [Mehr Chand] full support and cooperation on our behalf.’

Nehru, with his socialist views, had more difficulties in dealing with Hari Singh; his rapport was with Sheikh Abdullah, which was equally important in the fast-evolving scenario. In the last week of September, Nehru passed on to Patel information that Pakistan was preparing a military assault.

Nehru was as eager to keep Jammu and Kashmir within India, but on critical occasions he became vulnerable to British pressure. An early instance came on September 30th, 1947. Nehru during a meeting between him, Mountbatten and Pakistan Prime Minister Liaquat Ali Khan, agreed to honour the results of a plebiscite in Junagadh. Rajmohan Gandhi comments in his biography of Sardar Patel that ‘Patel would not have volunteered such a commitment’. Why? The answer lay in Mountbatten’s instant intervention. The last Viceroy and first Governor General of India jumped in to assure Liaquat that if need be Nehru would agree to a plebiscite in other disputed states as well. Writes HW Hodson in The Great Divide, ‘Pandit Nehru nodded his head sadly. Mr Liaquat Ali Khan’s eyes sparkled. There is no doubt that both of them were thinking of Kashmir.’

But Muslim League leaders, still heady with the success of their ‘Direct Action’ violence, thought that they could extend this strategy. Using the familiar, if fraying, veil of lies, they sent some 5,000 armed tribesmen in around 300 lorries, under the command of a Pakistan Army officer, Major General Akbar Khan [using the pseudonym ‘General Tariq’] on what would be the first state-sponsored jihad after the Second World War. The invasion began on October 22nd; Hari Singh’s forces were overwhelmed but he did not send a message to Delhi until the evening of October 24th.


At the Defence Committee meeting on the morning of October 25th, Nehru urged resistance and Patel advocated Delhi’s support. Mountbatten, who technically should not have had any executive role, chaired the Committee. While Nehru was initially hesitant about Indian military support, Patel never had any doubts. VP Menon, working for Patel, got Hari Singh’s signature on the document of accession. This received Britain’s formal approval through Mountbatten’s endorsement. On the morning of October 27th, 329 men of the Sikh Regiment, with arms and supplies, began to land at Srinagar airport just as it was on the point of falling into Pakistan’s clutches. The story of India’s success is well known.

So far, as the minister for home affairs, Patel was in charge of Kashmir. On December 2nd, 1947, however, Nehru sent Hari Singh a letter saying Abdullah should become Prime Minister, and took over the management of Kashmir affairs, and Patel had little option except to step aside.

Nehru then brought N Gopalaswami Ayyangar, a former Dewan of Hari Singh, as minister without portfolio in his Cabinet, without consulting Patel, and gave him responsibility for Kashmir, reporting to Nehru. When Patel was upset, Nehru rebuked his deputy in writing.

On December 23rd, Patel sent his resignation.


That night, Nehru apologised for the pain, but noted that “our approaches are different, however much we may respect each other.” But he insisted a prime minister’s liberty of direction could not be constrained, and offered his own resignation. The problem was resolved only when Gandhi agreed to arbitrate in any dispute between them.

These facts should put at rest the obfuscation deliberately created by political parties about who was responsible for what during the seminal phase of Jammu and Kashmir’s integration. As Deputy Prime Minister, Patel could not deny his place in collective responsibility, but the decisions were made by Nehru after December 1947. They included the momentous reference to the United Nations, a move that quickly became a bleeding ulcer.

I would prefer to quote Rajmohan Gandhi, who cannot be accused on any bias: ‘As far as Kashmir was concerned, Jawaharlal agreed, on Mountbatten’s persuasion, to refer the question to the United Nations… Patel was as strongly against the reference to the UN and preferred ‘timely action’ on the ground, but Kashmir was Jawaharlal’s baby by now and Vallabhbhai did not insist on his prescriptions when, at the end of December [1947], Nehru announced that he had decided to go to the UN.’

Indeed, Nehru was on the verge of committing a much bigger mistake. He consulted Gandhi, who gave his consent most reluctantly, and also, in the process, saved India from a huge blunder. Gandhi deleted a ‘reference to an independent Kashmir as a possible alternative to accession to either India or Pakistan.’

The United Nations turned India’s allegations of Pakistani aggression into an India-Pakistan dispute.

Nehru was in control of Kashmir affairs when on October 17th, 1949 his nominee Ayyangar moved Article 306A in the Constituent Assembly to give constitutional status to the conditions laid down by Maharaja Hari Singh. Even at the inception, it was widely recognised that this provision, which became Article 370 in the final Constitution, was temporary. No one has ever disputed this. Then how and why did it gradually attain a kind of political inviolability that turned it into something sacrosanct?

A GENERIC FLAW in its very conception enabled secessionists, quasi-secessionists and of course Pakistan, which had its own agenda, to slowly, almost imperceptibly, reposition Article 370. They managed to make it look as if the accession to India was temporary, when the provisional matters were the clauses designed to smoothen a transition process. And so, in public discourse, even experienced politicians argued, including in the just-concluded debate, that abolishing Article 370 would snap Jammu and Kashmir’s link with India, when in fact the truth was just the opposite.

Accession to India became legal and binding when Maharaja Hari Singh signed the treaty of October 1947. Mountbatten recognised its legitimacy by permitting British officers of the Indian Army to play their assigned leadership roles in the 1947-48 war started by Pakistan. It should be noted that British officers refused to obey Jinnah’s orders to send troops in uniform to the Kashmir theatre because Pakistan’s aggression was held to be illegal. It is remarkable how the narrative has been altered over the last seven decades behind the fog generated by Article 370. Islamabad exploited this effectively, and made Article 370 into its evidence of a dispute, rather than confirmation of Kashmir’s accession. This is the challenging paradox that our foreign policy has had to deal with for too long. Today, Pakistan has been blindsided by this historic move.

Home Minister Amit Shah raised a basic question while piloting, with authority and conviction, the legislation that abolished Article 370: how temporary is temporary? Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Amit Shah have answered the question. Temporary is limited. All limits have been crossed. Article 370 is, to use an appropriate phrase, history.

BUT THE WOUNDS inflicted upon Jammu and Kashmir over the last seven decades by three cliques who used and abused power will not be easily healed. Sheikh Abdullah, whose struggle for the people’s emancipation and solidarity against Pakistani aggression deserve praise, became a different person once he was seated in office by Nehru. He began to use the professed autonomy granted by Article 370 as a shield against accountability. He rigged the first elections, held in 1951, by a simple ruse. No one was permitted to contest against the National Conference. He won 75 seats out of 75. Nehru and the Congress not only indulged this, but subverted elections in their own ways when they got a chance after the dismissal and arrest of Sheikh Abdullah. It was the beginning of an ominous trend that destroyed the Kashmiri voters’ faith in democracy.

The first honest elections were held in 1977 when Morarji Desai was Prime Minister. In 1980, the Congress came back to power in Delhi and electoral corruption returned to Srinagar, reaching a dangerously corrosive high in 1987.

The ruling families of Kashmir, abetted by the Congress, became bounty hunters, trading adherence to accession for widespread corruption. There was hardly any semblance of governance. Moreover, Article 370 denied rights and reservations that had evolved within India’s democracy to the Kashmiri people.

It is unsurprising that the political cabals who milked Article 370 opposed its abolition so vehemently. The Congress even risked a rebellion that could see the beginnings of a split if it is not calmed by concession. The rebels saw the massive surge of popular support for Prime Minister Modi and found their party once again swimming towards a shipwreck. If Congress does not go into reverse gear, its future will move from dim to dark. The people of India know that PM Modi took this decision in the national interest, not for partisan reasons. If the BJP merely wanted votes, surely it would have abolished Article 370 before the General Election rather than after.
or Prime Minister Modi, conviction is the alchemy that transforms the seemingly impossible into the perfectly possible. That is his strength. He believes, therefore he acts.

A_Gupta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11638
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31
Contact:

Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby A_Gupta » 10 Aug 2019 06:33

Al Jazeera reports
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/08/indian-troops-fire-tear-gas-mass-protests-erupt-srinagar-190809151858216.html
Indian troops fire tear gas as mass protests erupt in Srinagar
Troops fire in the air as thousands rally in Indian-administered Kashmir's main city to denounce region's status change.

Manish_Sharma
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4542
Joined: 07 Sep 2009 16:17

Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Manish_Sharma » 10 Aug 2019 06:41

^please don't post al Jazeera's links here regarding Kashmir....

They're jihadis

Rishirishi
BRFite
Posts: 1258
Joined: 12 Mar 2005 02:30

Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Rishirishi » 10 Aug 2019 06:56

kit wrote:
UlanBatori wrote:Meanwhile, news media found something to report!


{Oooooooo!!! Such PEACEFUL people getting angry!}


those poor souls were brain washed even before they were born., now lets see where they ll turn their ire on :mrgreen: .. the Paki armys a$$ is being cooked slowly


Image

This image parks the discussion. The west, Russia or China does not want another Afganistan, Syria, Iraq or Lybia. No one wants another breeding-ground of terrorists. They are probably more then happy to see India take care of this, by what ever means required.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby UlanBatori » 10 Aug 2019 07:30

Manish_Sharma wrote:^please don't post al Jazeera's links here regarding Kashmir....
They're jihadis


Oh, REALLY? Wow! That is really deep!
Al Jazeera is based out of Qatar, which stands up to Saudi Arabia, the fount of jehad.
Al Jazeera is a heck of a lot more objective than Washington Post or New Yoik Crimes. Is it OK to post links from those rags? Why? Read the barkings of that Niha bibi, eating Delhi food, for starters.
How about NDTV? How about Rahul Gaundy?
How about YAWN?
If postors/readers can't make out truth from fiction that is their problem: perhaps there needs to be a mental age threshold to browse BRF?

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby UlanBatori » 10 Aug 2019 07:36

BTW, what Al Jazeera calls "exclusive footage obtained by Al Jazeera"is exactly the same as what WaPO (Niha bark) posted. Esteemed postors here may not have thought enough to make that fact out.

ONE photo of a few rabid women waving a Pakistani flag and a 100 rowdies marching. This is all they have got from "10,000 protestors"? :rotfl:

Hope all 120 have been sent to make roads in Arunachal. All actually look like JNU faculty.

The announcer is called Priyanka Gupta. No more than a talking face, can't blame her.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby UlanBatori » 10 Aug 2019 07:45

India Today:
NaMo to send more Couriers with Nimbu Pani to J&K to avert IED Mubarak at Eid.

Joint Terrorist Action Committee calls off strike ahead of Eid

sanjaykumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4473
Joined: 16 Oct 2005 05:51

Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby sanjaykumar » 10 Aug 2019 07:59

That photo of determined Pakistanis must cause, to misquote Batman as said to Catwoman, 'curious stirrings in the utility belt'.


I'm glad GOI saved the good women of Kashmir from them.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby UlanBatori » 10 Aug 2019 08:04

Breaks mah heart!

Hello, Abbu! Two Words That Ended Five Long Days of Misery :(( :(( for Akhtars in Srinagar, Delhi and Dhaka

News18 » India
2-min read
Kashmir Dispatch 2 | Hello, Abbu! Two Words That Ended Five Long Days of Misery for Akhtars in Srinagar, Delhi and Dhaka
A couple of phones in the DC office, Srinagar, are the only means of communication open to the people of Kashmir to speak to people outside; and for people outside the Valley to check up on their family and friends in Kashmir.

Aakash Hassan | News18.com@AakashhassanUpdated:August 9, 2019, 9:08 PM IST

Srinagar: Mohammad Ishaq and his wife Shabeena Akhtar begged before the paramilitary troopers guarding the Deputy Commissioner (DC) Srinagar’s office to allow them inside.

The troopers said they can only allow Ishaq. There is no female security guard at the gate who could frisk Akhtar. The couple have come to make a call to their daughter who is studying in Dhaka.

In Kashmir, there is an absolute ban on internet for last five days. Phone services, both landlines and mobiles, have been completely snapped. The communication gag in Kashmir was enforced from Sunday night as the Union government decided to scrap Article 370, which conferred special status onto Jammu and Kashmir, and divide the state into two Union Territories.

A couple of phones in the DC office, Srinagar, are the only means of communication open to the people of Kashmir to speak to people outside; and for people outside the Valley to check up on their family and friends in Kashmir.

Ishaq and Akhtar were desperately waiting for their turn to speak to their daughter on one of these phone lines.

Akhtar tries hard to convince the troops at the gate of DC office to allow her to go inside and let her talk to her daughter. “I have to talk to my daughter. I haven’t listened to her voice for five days. I don’t know how she has been,” she pleads, in vain.
The security doesn’t budge. Only Ishaq is let inside. {One terrorist at a time, pls!}
Also Read: Kashmir Dispatch 1 | Food and Fear a Struggle as Kashmiris Grapple With the New Normal on Day 4 of Lockdown
There is a small room on the top floor of the three-storey building where two cell phones are working. Inside the room chaos reigns as people struggle to get their names listed in the long queue. Ishaq manages to get close to the desk and register his name.
It is after half-an-hour of wait that his name is shouted and he finally dials the number of his daughter. But it doesn’t connect.
“You cannot make international calls,” he is told by the operator.
Bewildered, Ishaq struggles to find number of his niece who is studying in a Delhi college. He gets lucky this time. His niece picks up the phone.
Ingeniously, the niece gets hold of another mobile phone, dials Ishaq’s daughter’s number, and puts her through to him. Ishaq’s eyes are filled with tears as he listens to the voice of his daughter for the first time in five days. He is allowed to talk to her for five minutes.
His wife, Akhtar, was waiting outside at the gate all this while. When she sees her husband coming out, she grabs him by his arm and enquires about their daughter.
“She is all well and healthy,” Ishaq announces. Both of them feel a sense of relief. But they don’t know when they’ll get to talk to their daughter again. :((
As all communication is gagged in Kashmir, those whose children are studying or working outside are worried about the safety of their children. “We don’t know if they have money or if they need something,” said Mohammad Subhan, who has also come to call his son.
He says, “Our children, who are outside are worried about us. We are worried about them. We have no information about our loved ones. This is an unbearable situation.” :((
People in Valley have been requesting the administration to at least open some lines of communication


This is really tough ****, isn't it?

I remember being in Mongolia as an ishtudant, and I had NOOOOO way of calling anyone: my parents had no phone at all. Survived OK.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby UlanBatori » 10 Aug 2019 08:13

Village heads told to fly tricolor
Union Minister of State for Home, G Kishan Reddy said on Friday that village heads of all Gram Panchayats of Jammu & Kashmir have been advised to hoist the national flag on the Independence Day, August 15.
The separate flag of Jammu and Kashmir became defunct after Parliament annulled Article 370 that allowed Jammu and Kashmir to have a separate constitution and a flag.
Earlier on Friday, few students in Government Degree College in Kathua were reported by news agency ANI to have hoisted the national flag at the gates of the institution.
Former Indian cricket captain Mahendra Singh Dhoni is likely to unfurl the tricolour on Independence Day in Leh in the newly-created union territory of Ladakh. Dhoni, an honorary lieutenant colonel in the Indian Army, is at present stationed in Khrew in the Pulwama district of Jammu & Kashmir, along with members of his Territorial Army battalion.
The abrogation or Article 370 means that all laws applicable to people of India shall be applicable to people of J&K. Earlier on Wednesday, former J&K deputy chief minister Nirmal Singh had removed the J&K flag from his vehicle.


Incredible what these sh1ts have been getting away with, all these years!
What next? Tricolor in Godhra? :shock:

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby UlanBatori » 10 Aug 2019 08:15

I have been realizing that the "footage" of the "10,000 protestors" and the Grim Situation all come down to ONE footage, seen by WaPO and Al Jazeera. No Indian channel is showing anything of the sort. Censorship? Or is the demonstration footage taken in LaHore?

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby UlanBatori » 10 Aug 2019 08:19

And here is the Other Side: Those who were driven away from their homes by the terrorists of the Kashmir Valley

Blog: The ‘price’ of our home in Srinagar...
Why don’t we know the measurement of the land on which our great grandparents built a home? Why don’t we have the documents, the drawings that turn lines on paper into a real house?
Updated: Aug 09, 2019 14:38 IST
Smriti Kak Ramachandran
I asked my cousins on the family WhatsApp group, the dimensions of the piece of land our home in Srinagar stood on. Not one in that dozen has an exact idea. They threw guesstimates and we ribbed each other, for none of us knew the correct answer.

Why don’t we know the measurement of the land on which our great grandparents built a home? Why don’t we have the documents, the drawings that turn lines on paper into a real house?

Because for us it wasn’t land, a house, or real estate. It was just home.

Since Monday, I have been inundated with congratulatory messages, with questions about home.

While most think scrapping Article 370 means putting us on the next flight home; I have lost count of the number of people who had questions about my “property” in Kashmir.

“Is your house there... do you have land...how much land... have you sold it... will you take it back... how big is the house...there must be something...”questions I have no answers to.

For the first time in all these 29 years that we have been away from home, I have been compelled to think of home as real estate. For the first time I am I’m hunting for measurements of the house I still call home.
In that house I grew up in, I heard no conversations about acreage, even when it was burnt down and taken over years after we were forced out in March 1990 at a dreadful hour of the day.
I can tell the living room was large; and the room where my grandparents secured in muslin folds their son’s memories, was considerably small.

But I don’t know their measurements.
I don’t even know if I am going back. Since it is presumed that we are, I cling to hope.
And hope is where I stop.
I don’t have answers to where we will live if we go back, because our home is no longer ours. I have no answers to whether our neighbours will be happy to have us back. I have no answers to whether there will be peace or the simmering fear and mistrust that preceded the fasaad (turmoil).

I don’t know if people will listen to why a mere order on a piece of paper that morphed into a monster over the years, is better scrapped of. I don’t know whether the acrimony between communities will increase, or more blood will flow, or the so-called winning of hearts will ever happen.

I don’t have answers to so many questions, just as I don’t have an answer to the value of our home.
How does one put a price to a home?

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14045
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby UlanBatori » 10 Aug 2019 09:11

Terror camps re-established
08:20 AM IST
Posted by Shifa Naseer
As LoC tension mounts, over a dozen terror camps reactivated in PoK

As tension between India and Pakistan escalates over scrapping of special status to Jammu and Kashmir, Islamabad has hastily reactivated nearly a dozen terror camps in Pakistan occupied Kashmir (PoK) and close to the International Border along Jammu and Kashmir.

During the past week, hectic movement of terrorists has been seen around these camps which were almost shut in the wake of May 2019 deadline set up by Financial Action Task Force (FATF), an inter-governmental body based in Paris. Top intelligence sources said Indian security forces have been put on high alert as terror camps in Kotli, Rawalkot, Bagh and Muzzafrabad in PoK area, bordering Line of Control (LoC), have been reactivated with the ostensible backing of Pakistan army.

Two days back, Pakistan Prime Minister Imran Khan had stated in the joint session of Parliament that Islamabad would not be responsible if Pulwama type (or even bigger) terror attack is executed in India. The all important statement of Imran Khan has virtually granted liberty to terror outfits such as Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM) and Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) and their handlers in Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) agency of Pakistan, to reactivate training camps and launch pads.

Intelligence reports reveal that more than 150 cadres of JeM, LeT and veteran Taliban have reportedly gathered at Fagoosh and Kund camps near Kotli and Shavai Nallah, Abdullah Bin Masud camps in Muzaffarabad area. JeM's chief Maulana Masood Azhar's brother Ibrahim Athar was also spotted in the PoK area, intelligence reports said.

Highly placed sources in the security establishment said National Security Advisor Ajit Doval, who is currently in the Valley, had a high level meeting with senior officials which included Intelligence Bureau Director Arvind Kumar, Director General of Police, Jammu and Kashmir, Dilbagh Singh, and top Army brass. The NSA discussed security strategy and terror threat from across the border in the backdrop of government's bold decisions taken on Jammu and Kashmir.

(IANS)

Arun.prabhu
BRFite
Posts: 445
Joined: 28 Aug 2016 19:26

Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Arun.prabhu » 10 Aug 2019 10:04

kit wrote:
Not exactly sure whether Talibunnies running amock in Afghanistan is a good idea for anyone around including Russia, central Asian republics, KSA and Iran. The bunnies would increasingly target their benefactor Pakis first for the nukes , this will happen. America can find a suitcase nuke soon and come running back :mrgreen:



It's not a good idea, I completely agree, but it is where the situation is headed. The only friendly country to American interests that possibly stands a chance of subjugating and ruling Afghanistan is India. The IA is willing to shed a little blood, has plenty of experience in counter insurgency, is bloody minded when ordered to stack bodies, and has the numbers. Unfortunately, the tyranny of logistics ensured that America could never use us in Afghanistan - they'd have lost the Pakistani logistical lifeline - and our government at that time was also unwilling. Today, it's Pakistan via its proxy Taliban or China. China will bring in Han, imprison Afghanis in reeducation camps, use them for body parts, install complete surveillance and kill as many as needed to get their way, all the while pretending everything was roses.
Last edited by Arun.prabhu on 10 Aug 2019 10:37, edited 1 time in total.

Prem Kumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2449
Joined: 31 Mar 2009 00:10

Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Prem Kumar » 10 Aug 2019 10:15

UlanBatori wrote:As LoC tension mounts, over a dozen terror camps reactivated in PoK


Good opportunity for the M-A-D trio for a pre-emptive strike. Public is with them. Pakis cannot react because of FATF.

BSR Murthy
BRFite
Posts: 187
Joined: 02 Apr 2003 12:31
Location: Texas

Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby BSR Murthy » 10 Aug 2019 10:29

panduranghari wrote:Late Varsha Bhosle would have been pleased with abrogation of art.370

https://www.rediff.com/news/dec/04varsha.htm

What a fierce and fantastic writer and patriot she was! I remember eagerly looking forward to her column in Rediff. May her soul Rest In Peace.

Arun.prabhu
BRFite
Posts: 445
Joined: 28 Aug 2016 19:26

Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Arun.prabhu » 10 Aug 2019 10:36

Refusing reality does not make it go away as Steve Jobs' ghost can tell you. Pakistani resurgence in Afghanistan is a fait accompli. It is the reason why Taliban are being invited to the negotiating table and there is talk of including them in running the country. The best that India can do is lend what assistance we may to anti-Pakistani forces in Afghanistan and focus on POK so that we can regain our border with Afghanistan. Once we control a few passes, we can send as much materiel assistance we want to whomsoever we want and let the Afghanis kill themselves and Pakistanis in job lots for a few decades or install a strong man and have him dance to our tune.

I would recommend that you study the Syrian campaign in detail. There were pro-Assad regime infantry, there were Hezbollah fighters, there were Russian advisors, Russian regular infantry acting as mercy and Russian air cover. That Russia won isn't a big surprise. Obama had been bombing Assad's forces under the guise of fighting ISIS for a year - which is why we didn't see any worthwhile result from the American campaign. America, Turkey, KSA and a few others were also lending materiel and other support to ISIS. Google Toyota technicals used by ISIS - those trucks were all bought by I believe the US state department. Turkey was being used to treat ISIS wounded as well as R&R. Israel was selling ISIS oil on the international market. Erdogan's son, I believe, ran the oil trucking operation within Syria. ME sunni nations supplied money and rag heads. It tells you a great deal about how good the ISIS units were that they could not take out Assad backed by Hezbollah for spine with USAF ruling the skies and imposing whatever restrictions they chose to impose on Assad. Sure, they were bloody minded murdering thugs, but that does not make an effective fighting army. Enter Russia. Russia targeted fuel convoys that ISIS was using to earn cash, provided close air support - from very high in the air lol - and as is usual with Arab and Jihadi armies, resistance vanished. More importantly, America and Turkey, to name but two, tried to get Russia to back down - shooting down those Russian bombers was meant to get the Russians to restrict their use - but while Putin refused to escalate, he also refused to back down, America's one chin wonder Obama backed down. This is how Assad managed to stay in power. Against a determined foe who was willing to fight through air strikes, the Russian campaign would have failed horribly. It wouldn't have taken a great deal of determination for that matter - Russia did something like 60 strikes a day - say 30-60 tons of ordnance. That's so little that it is wrong to even call it a pittance.

I have faith in Pakistan. The Balochs are also Pakistanis, unfortunately. :) It is why I see us letting things cascade further before we slowly start taking control of a little territory here, a little territory there and so on and so forth.

UlanBatori wrote:I refuse to think that there is no outcome better than allowing Pakistan to win in Afghanistan - AGAIN! But then I have faith in Pakistan. They will find a way. To *uck up. Look at 1992 (when the Taliban won) to 2001: they managed to bring the Americans in and get 120,000 Pakis killed.

Prabhuji, AFAIK, Russians won in Syria, with an amazing small force and negligible casualties/losses. Probably the most impressive military victory I have ever seen, and done under impossible odds. I think they can easily win in Yemen if they so decide - or at least cause massive losses and takleef to KSA, enough to destabilize the monarchy.

The trouble in Balochistan is that Balochis hate the Iranians almost as much as they hate Pakis. This unfortunate equation has to change: after all both are Shia and right now Shia are under even worse threat of genocide than Hindus are. I think relations between the Hazara in Afghanistan, and Iran, have been pretty decent. If India can mediate a Baloch/Iran/Afghan deal, then Balochistan can become independent. True that in the final phases there will have to be organized military intervention, but that can be a multinational force (Iran-Afghan-Indian). Then again, as things become interesting, Pakjab will not be able to keep large forces in Balochistan - if Pakhtoonistan, Balwaristan and Sindh become uncooperative.

One has be altruistic and optimistic in these things. Have faith in the Pakis!

NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16814
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby NRao » 10 Aug 2019 10:44

AP ji,

With all due respect, I happen to think that Modi has rewritten the book on logic.

All that stuff about Pakistan and (Afghan) Taliban (and what is this about Syria, Russia and Turkey? Here? In this convo?) is all Mithya.

I mean anyone who wants to believe in that narrative is OK to follow it, but, honestly, it does not apply here. IMHO of course. Modi has given the rest a choice India or Pakistan. Your chal (that of other nations).

And, that is how it should be.

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5380
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Karthik S » 10 Aug 2019 10:53

Deleted.
Last edited by Karthik S on 10 Aug 2019 10:59, edited 1 time in total.

NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16814
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby NRao » 10 Aug 2019 10:57

Karthik S wrote:Someone was asking for this:

India asks UN team on Kashmir to leave Delhi premises


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-indi ... DH20140708



2014 story?

That is the date n that article.

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5380
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Karthik S » 10 Aug 2019 10:59

Oops yes, took from Prof RVaidya's timeline.

NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16814
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby NRao » 10 Aug 2019 11:01

OK. There is a button to "delete" (x) posts.

I will delete this post, and you/me work backward to delete our posts.

Sounds good?

Wait for me to delete THIS post.
Last edited by NRao on 10 Aug 2019 11:02, edited 1 time in total.

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5380
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Karthik S » 10 Aug 2019 11:02

The Spectator Index
@spectatorindex
·
1h
BREAKING: Russia says India's changes on Kashmir status are within the framework of the country's constitution.


Finally good sense from old ally.

NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16814
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby NRao » 10 Aug 2019 11:23

Cabinet Meeting to Discuss Abrogation of Article 370 Lasted Only 7 Minutes, Ended With Applause For Amit Shah

7 minutes!!!!!

If sources are to be believed, the cabinet meeting where the proposal for the abrogation of Article 370 was presented, lasted for only ‘seven minutes’ with Union Home Minister being greeted with applause in the end.

The Parliament earlier this week cleared the government’s proposal to strip Jammu and Kashmir of its special provisions- thereby carving the state into two Union Territories.

A report in the Hindustan Times read, “The moment Amit Shah referred to Article 370, ministers started thumping the desk. It was an emotional moment in the cabinet meeting,” the person mentioned said. “Most of those who are in Modi’s cabinet follow the ideology of Shyama Prasad Mookerjee, who gave his life for the integration of Kashmir with the rest of India.”

In a historic announcement in the Rajya Sabha on August 5, Amit Shah had said, “I am presenting the resolution to revoke Article 370 in Jammu and Kashmir except the first clause 370 (1).”


According to sources, a very close group of ministers were in the know of the Modi cabinet planning to move the bill in Rajya Sabha.

Moreover, the decision to bring the matter up in Rajya Sabha was to surprise the Opposition. The same HT report quoted a source, “The Opposition was caught off-guard, completely… That was our purpose.”

President Ram Nath Kovind on Friday gave his approval to the Jammu and Kashmir Reorganisation Act, 2019, which was passed by the Parliament in the recently concluded first session of the 17th Lok Sabha to bifurcate the state into two Union Territories — Jammu and Kashmir with an Assembly and Ladakh without one.

Notwithstanding the controversy, the Bill was passed in the Parliament on Tuesday with the Lok Sabha giving its nod after a little over seven hours discussion.

Rsatchi
BRFite
Posts: 715
Joined: 04 Aug 2019 22:03

Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Rsatchi » 10 Aug 2019 11:41

Now on BBC
Dissing India for cutting internet yadi yadi
How Pissful people are denied right
cut off from the world

NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16814
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby NRao » 10 Aug 2019 11:44

Rsatchi wrote:Now on BBC
Dissing India for cutting internet yadi yadi
How Pissful people are denied right
cut off from the world


Please ask the British to return the $72 Trillion (yes T) by today's count that the British stole from India.

Rsatchi
BRFite
Posts: 715
Joined: 04 Aug 2019 22:03

Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Rsatchi » 10 Aug 2019 11:53

NRao wrote:
Rsatchi wrote:Now on BBC
Dissing India for cutting internet yadi yadi
How Pissful people are denied right
cut off from the world


Please ask the British to return the $72 Trillion (yes T) by today's count that the British stole from India.

Saar staring at 'Brexit Alimony' + 'cradle to grave' so called social security will bankrupt all that :rotfl:
Where is the money to pay poor colonials saar :rotfl:

Rsatchi
BRFite
Posts: 715
Joined: 04 Aug 2019 22:03

Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Rsatchi » 10 Aug 2019 11:54

https://www.ndtv.com/video/shows/the-nd ... topstories
Good addition this guy to BJP should be sent out to debate with the 'emancipated liberal goras'

mmasand
BRFite
Posts: 675
Joined: 19 May 2009 23:46

Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby mmasand » 10 Aug 2019 11:57

UlanBatori wrote:Manuji: Glad to see the interest in the Grand Solution. Yes, in my model, the days of KSA are numbered. It is an anachronism, inimical to open information and thought. Hooking long-term strategic alliance on them is not smart. The problem to solve is to reconcile Iran and Balochistan. I wasn't aware BTW that Baloch are mostly Sunni: have to think about that. If Baloch now in Pakistan are Sunni, how can KSA be supporting them?


The relationship between the Baloch sunnis and GCC go back in time when 'Gwadar' was part of Oman, when the Sultan was desperate for funds prior to the discovery of oil, he sold parts of Balochistan to Pakistan in the late 50's. A good chunk of Omanis are of Baloch origin, the armed forces continue to recruit Sunni and Shias. Not relevant for this thread, but if MEA really wants to give a tight thappad to Jernails in Pindi, get the Oman MFA to issue a 'neutral' statement.

NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16814
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby NRao » 10 Aug 2019 12:10

Rsatchi wrote:https://www.ndtv.com/video/shows/the-ndtv-dialogues/kashmir-move-a-turning-point-in-history-shashi-tharoor-jay-panda-debate-523971?pfrom=home-topstories
Good addition this guy to BJP should be sent out to debate with the 'emancipated liberal goras'


I heard "argumentative tradition". Is that right? :rotfl: Shahi Tharoor (with all due respect?)

Has someone renamed it from "Intelectual masturbation"? (Shiv IIRC? Where is he? Must have attained Moksha. Peace.)





The community I come from there is a visual saying. You can eat this way (grasp food with hand and take it from plate to mouth) OR you can eat this way (take food with hand and take the hand around the HEAD to the mouth). It has to be demonstrated for the effect - not internet friendly.

That is what these TV shows are about.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54388
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby ramana » 10 Aug 2019 12:57

0

President Kovind gives assent to Jammu and Kashmir bifurcation, two UTs to come into existence on October 31
I think we can close this thread.

It's a done deed.


Return to “Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Anoop, uskumar and 39 guests