Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

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Pulikeshi
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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Pulikeshi » 06 Aug 2019 10:34

A_Gupta wrote:The danger is if the Supreme Court issued a stay order while it listens to arguments, deliberates, etc.


The SC can do no such thing - they will be going against the President of India (who would not have made this move without judicial review)
What was defacto has now been made dejure with the UT modi-fication :mrgreen:

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Suraj » 06 Aug 2019 10:40

The political state of J&K, where most of the Indian constitution already applies - is a direct result of repeated Presidential dilutions of their original terms of autonomy.
By the Presidential Order of 1954, almost the entire Constitution (including most constitutional amendments) was extended to Jammu and Kashmir. Ninety-four out of the 97 entries in the Union List are today applicable to Jammu and Kashmir as to any other state. Two hundred and sixty out of the 395 Articles of the Constitution have been extended to the state. Seven out of the 12 Schedules of the Constitution of India too, have been extended to Jammu and Kashmir.

Over the years, the central government has used Article 370 to amend a number of provisions of the Jammu and Kashmir constitution, even though that was not the power given to it under this Article of the Constitution of India. Article 370 had a limited mandate to extend the applicability of the Constitution of India to Jammu and Kashmir.

Thus, Article 356 (on the imposition of President’s Rule in the states) was extended to Jammu and Kashmir, even though a similar provision was already there in Article 92 of Jammu and Kashmir’s constitution. To change the provision in the Jammu and Kashmir constitution regarding the Governor being elected by the state Assembly, Article 370 was used to convert the position into a nominee of the President.

Governors have proved to be the Centre’s agents in the state. Monday’s Order has now extended the remaining Articles of the Constitution after withdrawing all the earlier Orders.

link
Therefore, presidential actions to dilute Art 370 have never been legally challenged. The central basis of this move is not a legislative action but a Presidential Order annulling prior Presidential Orders.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby KLNMurthy » 06 Aug 2019 10:44

pankajs wrote:Folks how does one directly link to the embedded twitter videos here.

DO WATCH this piece from Bakistan of their previous High commissioner to India.
https://twitter.com/centerofright/statu ... 5142591493
Vijay @centerofright
Most Interesting observation by Pak news channel on perils of Trump’s mediation

And here we had folks on full RR mode on Trumps "mediation" offer.

Love it!

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby KLNMurthy » 06 Aug 2019 10:54

g.sarkar wrote:In this commotion where is Pappuji? Where is Pujya Damadji? Where is Rajmataji? Pappuji is most probably in Thailand, but where is everyone else? There is not a peep from them. Come back I miss you.
Gautam

We should thank la Familia for existing and hence making this day possible.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Pulikeshi » 06 Aug 2019 11:11

@arun - if u ignore the silly anchors and their fundamentals Congi-fusion - Sri. Salve has sane explanation of what Surat posted above:


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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Pulikeshi » 06 Aug 2019 11:13

KLNMurthy wrote:
g.sarkar wrote:In this commotion where is Pappuji? Where is Pujya Damadji? Where is Rajmataji? Pappuji is most probably in Thailand, but where is everyone else? There is not a peep from them. Come back I miss you.
Gautam

We should thank la Familia for existing and hence making this day possible.


Sri. Pappu will return and ask if 370 was set aside with ❤ :rotfl:

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby g.sarkar » 06 Aug 2019 11:44

Pulikeshi wrote:
A_Gupta wrote:The danger is if the Supreme Court issued a stay order while it listens to arguments, deliberates, etc.

The SC can do no such thing - they will be going against the President of India (who would not have made this move without judicial review)
What was defacto has now been made dejure with the UT modi-fication :mrgreen:

I too do not think the SC will do anything against the president and his order. The protests in Loksabha will be minor and token, as those against this move will be rejected in the next election. 370 was never popular anywhere in India, except Kashmir. Parties against the removal of 370 are: Congress, Samajwadi party, RJD, DMK, Muslim League, TMC, and the Communist parties. All declining under the onslaught of BJP. Frankly, the Djinn is out of the bottle, and all the king's horses and all the king's men will not be able to put Humpty together again. It will be impossible to bring back article 370 again even if the Congress wins a super majority in the next election. The only thing that the militants and their backers in Pakistan can do is cause more violence in Kashmir. But they have played this card and it did not have any effect on India's grip over there. What more can they do that they have not already tried? In a direct war with India, Pakistan will go out of gas and ammo in maximum 5-6 days. Most probably they will make some noise, send some terrorists to get killed and then keep quiet.
Gautam

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby pankajs » 06 Aug 2019 11:45

The gift that keeps on giving

https://twitter.com/ShivAroor/status/11 ... 5700250624
Shiv Aroor @ShivAroor

Cong’s LS leader Adhir Ranjan Choudhury makes mortifying gaffe, asks: ‘If Indira did Shimla Agreement & Vajpayee did Lahore declaration, then how is #Article370 internal issue, when #UNMOGIP monitoring?” @AmitShah retorts, “Please confirm if that’s @INCIndia’s official position.”

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby VikramA » 06 Aug 2019 12:02

Congress party is committing hara kiri live on TV. Says j&k not an internal matter

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Amber G. » 06 Aug 2019 12:09

Revoking of Article 370 | Always on the cards, but Donald Trump supplied a quick trigger
The Union government’s moves to extend all provisions of the Indian Constitution to Jammu and Kashmir, stripping away certain special privileges of the State and reorganising it into two Union Territories, were dictated by domestic and international situations.

According to senior sources in the government, the BJP’s ideological imperative of doing away with Article 370 has been always there, but the impetus for it was provided first by Union Home Minister Amit Shah’s determination to change the status quo in the State and also events in the past two weeks, after U.S. President Donald Trump publicly said that Prime Minister Narendra Modi had approached him to play mediator for the dispute in the State.

The Union government, of course, denied any such conversation with Mr. Trump, but the realisation in government circles was to do something that would demonstrate that it was irrevocably opposed to U.S. mediation.

“Ever since the BJP withdrew support to the Mehbooba Mufti government and Governor’ Rule and then President’s rule were imposed in the State, the government took many measures to make a change in the status quo, including setting up an Anti-Corruption Bureau and the raids on Jammu and Kashmir Bank. The biggest move was the conduct of the panchayat elections in the State. There was always a thinking that Article 35A needed to be done away with and a delimitation exercise had to be conducted for the State, something that had been done for the rest of the country,” said a senior Minister.

It was, however, Mr. Trump’s statement that added a certain urgency to the matter. Government floor managers were told by Mr. Shah to explore how to get a majority in the Upper House, where the NDA does not otherwise have one. The creeping acquisition of a majority in the Rajya Sabha was under way with the merger of the Telugu Desam parliamentary group in the Rajya Sabha into the BJP (with four out of its six MPs joining the BJP) and the merger of the Indian National Lok Dal group (one MP) and the resignation of two Samajwadi Party MPs, Neeraj Shekhar and Surendra Nagar.

Parliamentary Affairs Minister Pralhad Joshi, and Union Ministers Dharmendra Pradhan and Piyush Goyal and Rajya Sabha MP Bhupendra Yadav then worked the phones in the last four days to persuade parties whose ideological position was close to that of the BJP on the issue. Some were told that the matter was about Jammu and Kashmir. NDA allies were also spoken to and whips issued. The weekend saw Law Minister Ravi Shankar Prasad getting ready the drafts of the Bills that were passed on Monday. The Bills were carried with a two-thirds majority in the Rajya Sabha. “There were credible threats to security as well, which is why everything was kept hush-hush,” a Minister said. The underlying principle behind all this was to shake the post-Independence status quo.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby pankajs » 06 Aug 2019 12:19

Moved here ... from the other thread
---------------
Coupta will always remain Coupta for me BUT got to give credit where it is due ... I did finally get there on my own but not so early.

https://twitter.com/ShekharGupta/status ... 7335060480
Shekhar Gupta @ShekharGupta
I’m sure Trump may be too ‘cool’ to be bothered..

But he may have unleashed a bunch of unintended consequences...

Like giving Modi Govt impetus for its thinking on repealing Article 370, 35-A and other precipitate steps in Kashmir...
12:14 AM · Jul 23, 2019·Twitter for iPad

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby pankajs » 06 Aug 2019 12:23

njoy ....

https://twitter.com/HamidMirPAK/status/ ... 6090171393
Hamid Mir @HamidMirPAK
Indian Govt declared an open war against @UN by trying to remove article 370 from its constitution @narendramodi imposed Martial Law in Jammu & Kashmir and behaving like Micheal Dyer who ordered bloodshed in Jalianwala Bagh in 1919 mark ny words he will become Gorbachev of India

Looks like they know Frump will not keep his words. Now trying to invoke the "H&D" of the UN hoping that would make them act! :rotfl:

Arre Bhai saahab, UN is not so focused on H&D as you bakis. You can't shame them into acting with such useless rants. Get on with life dude.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby williams » 06 Aug 2019 12:41

https://youtu.be/xRVei1GszXA

Legal aspects explained very clearly.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Shaktimaan » 06 Aug 2019 12:59

Pappu ji has finally tweeted his opinion on this event.

@RahulGandhi
National integration isn’t furthered by unilaterally tearing apart J&K, imprisoning elected representatives and violating our Constitution. This nation is made by its people, not plots of land.

This abuse of executive power has grave implications for our national security.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Yagnasri » 06 Aug 2019 13:01

There was judicial review on these issues earlier and always help in favor of the powers of the parliament. BJP played a carefully managed legal act which will be very difficult to set aside for SC. So far they have not decided anything about AP division. They even refused to stay in case of AP and can not therefore give stay for J&K just like that. J&K is far more emotional that AP division in which rest of the nation is almost indifferent.

But BIF has a lot at stake here than in case of AP. They will press hard in SC and we have to see how the litigation in SC will be managed by GoI.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Yagnasri » 06 Aug 2019 13:04

Shaktimaan wrote:Pappu ji has finally tweeted his opinion on this event.

@RahulGandhi
National integration isn’t furthered by unilaterally tearing apart J&K, imprisoning elected representatives and violating our Constitution.


Funny he did not bothered when he kicked out MPs of AP from LS, closed the doors, cut live Tv coverage and divided AP.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby jaysimha » 06 Aug 2019 13:20

watched the HM speech.. I remembered this,,,,
You can see ravan also singing ram kirtan in the end..



in the end even congoons were nodding there head in confirmation/affirmation when HM was speaking. :)

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Aditya_V » 06 Aug 2019 13:33

Yagnasri wrote:
Shaktimaan wrote:Pappu ji has finally tweeted his opinion on this event.

@RahulGandhi
National integration isn’t furthered by unilaterally tearing apart J&K, imprisoning elected representatives and violating our Constitution.


Funny he did not bothered when he kicked out MPs of AP from LS, closed the doors, cut live Tv coverage and divided AP.


You left the most important part

This nation is made by its people, not plots of land.


So No instution or person should own or control land or are they generous with Indian land.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby pankajs » 06 Aug 2019 14:42

I don't care what the US/SD/Frump say on J&K especially on the current moves BUT for those who care ...

https://twitter.com/YusufDFI/status/1158581091977949184
Yusuf Unjhawala @YusufDFI
US State Dept statement on #Article370Scrapped
Takes note of India’s actions. Understands it’s India’s internal matter. No adverse comment. Concern for detentions

Image

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby JayS » 06 Aug 2019 15:05

pankajs wrote:I don't care what the US/SD/Frump say on J&K especially on the current moves BUT for those who care ...

https://twitter.com/YusufDFI/status/1158581091977949184
Yusuf Unjhawala @YusufDFI
US State Dept statement on #Article370Scrapped
Takes note of India’s actions. Understands it’s India’s internal matter. No adverse comment. Concern for detentions

Image

This is as good as turning a blind eye. I am pretty sure US was kept in the loop.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Lisa » 06 Aug 2019 15:10

pankajs wrote:The gift that keeps on giving

https://twitter.com/ShivAroor/status/11 ... 5700250624
Shiv Aroor @ShivAroor

Cong’s LS leader Adhir Ranjan Choudhury makes mortifying gaffe, asks: ‘If Indira did Shimla Agreement & Vajpayee did Lahore declaration, then how is #Article370 internal issue, when #UNMOGIP monitoring?” @AmitShah retorts, “Please confirm if that’s @INCIndia’s official position.”


They have not yet asked INC the most important question, if the repeal of 370 goes through, would they reverse it if they ever acceded to power?

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby chetak » 06 Aug 2019 15:18

twitter


Now @INCIndia's Adhir Ranjan in Lok Sabha says "Kashmir Is Not India's Internal Matter, It's International Issue"

#ShameOnCongress


watch video

https://twitter.com/Humor_Silly/status/1158622830558232577

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby darshan » 06 Aug 2019 15:36

Hopefully, all nehru clan is asked about their opinions on everything related to 370 round the clock. They seem to be staying quiet in hopes of next generation of vadras coming to power.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby ArjunPandit » 06 Aug 2019 15:42

our kancha had shared a tweetline which summarized how bjp assidously waited for all these pieces to fall in place by chipping in rough edges, one edge at a time..

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Bart S » 06 Aug 2019 15:46

VikramA wrote:Congress party is committing hara kiri live on TV. Says j&k not an internal matter


This is the end result of the last few decades when the Congress has been completely bereft of any morals or ideological principles/mooring, and just focused on opportunistic and parasitic leaching of resources to enrich themselves.

To quote from Sucker Punch: If you stand for nothing, you will fall for everything.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Bart S » 06 Aug 2019 15:51

pankajs wrote:njoy ....

https://twitter.com/HamidMirPAK/status/ ... 6090171393
Hamid Mir @HamidMirPAK
Indian Govt declared an open war against @UN by trying to remove article 370 from its constitution @narendramodi imposed Martial Law in Jammu & Kashmir and behaving like Micheal Dyer who ordered bloodshed in Jalianwala Bagh in 1919 mark ny words he will become Gorbachev of India

Looks like they know Frump will not keep his words. Now trying to invoke the "H&D" of the UN hoping that would make them act! :rotfl:

Arre Bhai saahab, UN is not so focused on H&D as you bakis. You can't shame them into acting with such useless rants. Get on with life dude.


Probably was given the same briefing/talking points from ISPR that the congress morons got.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby pankajs » 06 Aug 2019 16:00

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7240&start=2920#p2369301
pankajs wrote:Let me throw in a Chanyakan ...

Suppose India wanted to ask Trump/USA to put up or shut up on Kashmir but without being overtly antagonistic or bombastic, how would one go about it?

I would do something in Kashmir, not to the Kashmiri people but the status quo in Kashmir, that would make the Bakis squeal and ask for Trump/US intervention. So now the US either comes batting for the Baki line or stays quite.

<snip>

So by my Chanakyan theory, this was ALSO a question put up to US/Trump/Bakis AND to ALL political parties in India! Never underestimate Modi/Shah. Every party in Indian is indirectly being asked to makes its stand clear. Make no mistake.

And now this is being recognized by others too ... Listen to Hajam Sethi.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby pankajs » 06 Aug 2019 16:01

The Ladakh MP is on fire! ... Watch on Indian Today TV.

BTW, I don't think this speech was prepared overnight. Someone worked on the talking points for days perhaps months and kept it ready to be delivered.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Muppalla » 06 Aug 2019 16:22

ShyamSP wrote:AP split has been template for any narrative against JK split. They drove it with such emotion and confusion, this JK reorg or any other future reorgs became easy. PDP MPs noise was flat compared to pepper spray noise of AP MPs. In Rajyasabha they used AP guys to put against Chidu/Azad/Congi guys. They can use how AP constitutional provisions annulled without courts entertaining suits.

JK reorg complete and permanent with AP providing counter against any opposition to it. Only exceptions are terrorism, Pak, POK which are not in immediate control.

Since they got 2/3 majorities for the bills, they should permanently seal with generic bill that any provisions that block authority of parliament and its approved constitution are null and void to erase any fine prints in any non-fundamental articles and provisions.


India is a federal structure but not "federated structure". This difference was once very clearly explained by Jaitley in one of the India Today type conclaves. The states has all the power to develop an empower themselves. But when there is a conflict or national security issues, the centre has massive power to just erase in a whisker. Else we would have been victims of a plot like Soviet Union disintegration.

Right now they have a very good template to anyone who engages in blackmail using demographics. Watchout Kerala !!!!

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby manjgu » 06 Aug 2019 16:24

whats on UNMOGIP..it should be expelled post haste.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Muppalla » 06 Aug 2019 16:27



Complete BS. Take every coincidence of who went to tatti when type stuff and write an article. That is what "The Hindu" is famous for. Whether Trump did talk or not, India has been on this path since the time of Doklam to assert itself against powers.


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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Ashokk » 06 Aug 2019 16:43

Jammu & Kashmir news live
"Many have talked about equality in this debate on Article 370. When government grants funds for Jammu, Kashmir and Ladakh, all fund for Ladakh is used for Kashmir. Is this your idea of equality?," says Ladakh MP Jamyang Tsering Namgyal

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Karthik S » 06 Aug 2019 16:53

Some people in twitter are indicating pakis may do something stupid. But babaji says any such action will be repeat of 1971.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Bart S » 06 Aug 2019 16:54

pankajs wrote:The Ladakh MP is on fire! ... Watch on Indian Today TV.

BTW, I don't think this speech was prepared overnight. Someone worked on the talking points for days perhaps months and kept it ready to be delivered.



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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby pankajs » 06 Aug 2019 16:54

Those who care about UN

https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1158460013792452610
ANI @ANI

Stéphane Dujarric, Spokesman for the UN Secretary-General: We are following with concern the tense situation in the region, we are aware of reports of restrictions on the Indian side of Kashmir, we urge all parties to exercise restraint.

Bland.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby pankajs » 06 Aug 2019 16:55

Karthik S wrote:Some people in twitter are indicating pakis may do something stupid. But babaji says any such action will be repeat of 1971.

India will reply without doubt BUT I don't think AS is interested to act on POK just yet. His first priority will be to stabilize the situation within J&K.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby Karthik S » 06 Aug 2019 17:02

pankajs wrote:
Karthik S wrote:Some people in twitter are indicating pakis may do something stupid. But babaji says any such action will be repeat of 1971.

India will reply without doubt BUT I don't think AS is interested to act on POK just yet. His first priority will be to stabilize the situation within J&K.


Not talking about PoK. Pakis reaction just to 370 and creation of 2 UTs.

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby pankajs » 06 Aug 2019 17:35

Gazwa-e-pindi! Gazwa-e-pindi!

DO WATCH the embedded video
https://twitter.com/pokershash/status/1 ... 2215899136
Shash @pokershash

Maha Bharat poster in Islamabad

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Re: Articles 370 and 35A Repealed, J&K and Ladakh to be Separate Union Territories

Postby pankajs » 06 Aug 2019 17:42

CON has put its own leader and supporters on Agony pareeksha ... Sample

https://twitter.com/iAnkurSingh/status/ ... 2021043200
Ankur Singh @iAnkurSingh
Even Congress MLA from Raebareli @AditiSinghINC
supports Modi govt on removal of Article 370.

But Congress opposing it for its politics. No lesson learnt from Lok Sabha defeat.

https://twitter.com/iAnkurSingh/status/ ... 6983112704
Ankur Singh @iAnkurSingh

Rajasthan Congress president of Professional Congress supporting removal of Article 370.

Most Congress workers celebrating this historic decision but top Congress Leadership still doesn't want to see the reality.

https://twitter.com/iAnkurSingh/status/ ... 3330776064
Ankur Singh @iAnkurSingh

Now Congress leader Ranjeet Ranjan says removal of Article 370 is the right decision.

Rahul Gandhi would lose even if he conducts voting within his party too


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