J&K Union Territory-2019

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UlanBatori
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby UlanBatori » 20 Aug 2019 17:08


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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Aditya_V » 20 Aug 2019 17:13

UlanBatori wrote:Per Al jazeera, the terrorists of Soura district in Srinagar have barricaded themselves in to "guard the LOC" and prevent Indian Army from entering.
I think IA should build a Wall around Soura and keep them there till they rot.
But my pooch is this: in the pic showing them "standing guard" they show a couple of dudes in shorts. Their legs are most clearly not TFTA: they are short and dark.
Tell me, has the pure TFTA Kashmiri/Pakjabi blood already got contaminated this much, hain?


When has Al Jazeera ever spoken the truth- these are all moral booster stories for BIF- not truth.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Mollick.R » 20 Aug 2019 17:18

chetak wrote:
Yagnasri wrote:After almost 2 weeks, other than BIF and their but boys (and girls) of MSM there is no one else has supported the 370 provision. Even those MSM entities which have take some hard opposition to NM on this now started publishing supporting articles. As per some reports new and young politicos of J&K realised that there is no going back and it would be better to join regularly political ideas of the nation and take part in elections.

In the next elections, PDP and NC will be in a catch 22 situation. If they take part then it amounts to support the removal of 370 etc, if they dont take part some one else including people form their own party may take part and get power and they will be sidelined forever. No slogans like special status etc etc is going to be heard by people as almost every one knows there is a rats ass that is going to happen.

BJP is going to have a good number of votes and seats. After delimitation and regular residents becoming voters will result in 100% polling in favor BJP. PDP or NC can not promise anything. They can not take part in the elections or have to accept voting rights to people. Lot of fun.


Before the next elections, the powers that be will make sure that much dirt is raked up about most of the politically active local families and their shady doings for decades including the acquisition of huge properties when they have no visible means of support/can not show the source of their ill gotten wealth.

that alone should get many of the sharia voters to realign against them, not to mention the many cases that will now surface against these "established" players after being wilfully suppressed for so long in the pre 370 era.


I think behind the scene MAD trio (NM+ AS+ AD) can arm twist two Dynasties of nationalising their huge land parcels and other immovable properties or threat of ED, Benami Properties Act etc may come handy. I was reading somewhere that in last 30-40 years those dynasties have accumulated huge amount of prime real estate in valley and have other unaccounted investments.

After watching resolve of MAD trio on 370 those they will definitely not take the threat lightly and tow the Delhi line as required.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby UlanBatori » 20 Aug 2019 17:25

Point is, searching for "Kashmir", one finds **NOTHING** other than the Al Jazeera cra* as "news". The rest are recycling stuff. DDM are amazingly quiet, which says there is nothing to say. I mean, only J&K/Ladakh has gag orders of any kind. During the 1977 Emergency all of India was under censorship, and that did not keep IE and others from being pretty blunt.

**NOTHING** of the sort now. Are the modern-din desi papparazzi such meek paper-tigers? I doubt it. Therefore there is nothing to report. Resolve of govt in re-clamping the lid on places where they try exercising their pelting arm, is very educational.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Bart S » 20 Aug 2019 17:47

vijayk wrote:She first time noticed this language from Pakis in her life ... She heard it from respected sources too


This is the issue with people like Lutyens type people and those who have engaged with Pakis at track two etc. They consider Paki RAPEs their friends and feel very hesitant/guilty to call them out and stand with their country.

Shekhar Gupta is or was (if you want to give him the benefit of the doubt) like that as well, he worked as a journalist in Pakistan and had close friendships with Maleeha Lodhi and Mushaid whatshisname (PMLN politician) who by his own admission helped him out with his stories etc. It looks like he is now seeing their true colours, though that might just be him changing his own colours like a chameleon.

End result of this thinking is that these people see fascinating admirable creatures in what the average Indian would consider to be a vile cockroach.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby IndraD » 20 Aug 2019 18:21

So, Shah Faesal was going to Boston when he was stopped at Delhi airport.

He has moved HC (through a friend) against detention saying, “I am doing Master’s in public administration from Harvard and was going to attend the last semester.” https://twitter.com/manakgupta/status/1 ... 1490107392

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby UlanBatori » 20 Aug 2019 19:09

That actually may be proveable because the Fall semester starts around now or maybe September. What ELSE he was going to do there is a different pooch. Was he going by Turkish Airlines by way of Idlib, Syria etc I wonder.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby KLNMurthy » 20 Aug 2019 19:21

sanjaykumar wrote:Maharaja Ranjit Singh, after the Dogra general Zorawar Singh's conquest, is said to have wanted reconversion of KM but the KP were against the idea.

Source?

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby mmasand » 20 Aug 2019 19:46

UlanBatori wrote:That actually may be proveable because the Fall semester starts around now or maybe September. What ELSE he was going to do there is a different pooch. Was he going by Turkish Airlines by way of Idlib, Syria etc I wonder.


Don't look into the tiny details, the larger picture looms in front of our eyes. Playing good cop - bad cop will help keep the pot less than simmering in the valley once restrictions are lifted. Here's a hint, Faesal gave an interview to Barkha the preceding evening, only to show up at SXR on a flight the next morning. A couple of days later, Barkha clarified he was on the same flight. (make your own deductions)

He was not stopped from leaving the country at IGIA, but inside the domestic terminal by J&KP CID, not an agency under MHA (until 31 Oct). On what basis was he 'sent' back? Was he sent back, or adviced against travelling abroad? If you think he is being prepped up to be a soft alternative to replace the Mufti and Abdullahs, then think again. Remember his buddy Rashid Engineer is still in custody of the NIA.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby KLNMurthy » 20 Aug 2019 19:57

UlanBatori wrote:WSJ can't stand it:
Gulf States Shrug as India Seizes Kashmir
New Delhi is a major trading partner and powerful friend in a dangerous region.

What is fascinating is the entire mainstream US media, ideological spectrum ranging from Democracy Now! to NPF to fox & WSJ are of one voice on thos topic. There is not even the pretense of presenting both sides, not even, "we left a voicemail 2 minutes before air time with GOI but no one got back to us" kind of thing. Opinion pieces are one thing, but even news reports are openly one-sided. And none of the usual "watchdogs " of whatever political stripe, utters so much as a yip.

All this is a kind of mirror-image of the open anti-Indian-people messaging going on India-side, tempered by the sedition laws and the need to live daily life among their target population.

Overall, looks to me like Modi-fied India has ripped off the naqab of principle and virtue from a powerful establishment worldwide. This is how it always has been, and we have been willingly hoodwinked all along. After all, who wants to have the ground removed from under his feet?

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Rajeev » 20 Aug 2019 20:46

Does ICJ have any locus standi on internal sovereign right of another state ???




Pakistan to approach ICJ over Kashmir issue: Shah Mehmood Qureshi


https://www.livemint.com/news/world/pak ... 85004.html

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby darshan » 20 Aug 2019 20:56

KLNMurthy wrote:
UlanBatori wrote:WSJ can't stand it:

What is fascinating is the entire mainstream US media, ideological spectrum ranging from Democracy Now! to NPF to fox & WSJ are of one voice on thos topic. There is not even the pretense of presenting both sides, not even, "we left a voicemail 2 minutes before air time with GOI but no one got back to us" kind of thing. Opinion pieces are one thing, but even news reports are openly one-sided. And none of the usual "watchdogs " of whatever political stripe, utters so much as a yip.

IIRC, weren't they all the same during malegaon to 26/11 period till the piglet was caught alive? I vaguely remember npr making jokes about beef and Hindus around the same time frame and had to revise the article after lot of Hindus calling in.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Rudradev » 20 Aug 2019 21:10

KLNMurthy wrote:
UlanBatori wrote:WSJ can't stand it:

What is fascinating is the entire mainstream US media, ideological spectrum ranging from Democracy Now! to NPF to fox & WSJ are of one voice on thos topic. There is not even the pretense of presenting both sides, not even, "we left a voicemail 2 minutes before air time with GOI but no one got back to us" kind of thing. Opinion pieces are one thing, but even news reports are openly one-sided. And none of the usual "watchdogs " of whatever political stripe, utters so much as a yip.
...


To me this suggests that their outrage is not on Pakistan's behalf at all. It is entirely their own. THEY saw J&K as an embryonic client state of their own, albeit enclosed for the time being within the amniotic sac of a "disputed territory". THEY have themselves been affronted (and thwarted) by the A370 abrogation. This makes them furious.

This rampant one-sidedness of coverage, with opinion masquerading as "news", is exactly how Khanland discourse sounds when a threat to its own interests is perceived. Be it Iraqi "WMD" or Assad's "chemical weapons strikes" or Chavez/Maduro's Venezuela or whatever. There's no question of balance at all.

Consider this. Khanland saw exactly two potential locales where it hoped to grab and retain a territorial foothold in the Asian heartland. One is Afghanistan. Which is the other?

All that's happened is that, while earlier GOIs let the delusion fester through mumbling inaction, the current GOI has openly told them "in your dreams".

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby yensoy » 20 Aug 2019 21:23

Unkil Sam doesn't like complexity. In his opinion, countries borders would be straight lines, with countries arranged like pieces of barfi on a plate. Each country or barfi would be wholly composed of the same race, speaking the same language and having the same religion. With that world view, "muslim-majority Kashmir" would most certainly be a legitimate claim of Pakistan since partition divided the region into "muslim Pakistan" and "hindu India".

Anything that needs understanding of complex, layered history or the subtlety of reasoning (where Pakistan is the land of "muslim 2 nation theory believers" and India is the nation of "2 nation theory disbelievers from all religions") would be hard to explain to the audience which has the attention span as long as the time to sip a cup of coffee (or take a dump). After that, the paper is discarded. So if you can't explain it in simple language, you are toast.

And there are other angles. Don't rock the boat. Don't distract from Afghanistan. Don't let India sort out its remaining problems. Yes sure, those too.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby KLNMurthy » 20 Aug 2019 21:32

pankajs wrote:.


...
Everyone seems to be placing their last hope on the valley Kashmiri revolting.



And the Supreme Court.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby schinnas » 20 Aug 2019 21:37

KLNMurthy wrote:
pankajs wrote:.


...
Everyone seems to be placing their last hope on the valley Kashmiri revolting.



And the Supreme Court.


Despite his Congress ancestry and activist judge streak, the current CJI is both patriotic and honest (with impeccable financial integrity). I think his brother was ex Air Chief. However, he is about to retire in couple of months and it is important that judgement on 370 happens before Justice Chandrachud (judicial naxal) assumes role as CJI.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby KLNMurthy » 20 Aug 2019 21:47

Sandrokottos wrote:
Vikas wrote:KP's are no different from rest of the Hindus when it comes to 'Never Forgive Never Forget'. They were happily living and smoking peace pipe when Sikh/Dogra rulers threw away the yoke of Islamic persecution but instead of securing themselves better future, They just continued to drift along the history till 1990 struck. We had Nehru and Indira and MK Dhar and many others ever after 1947 but look where it landed them.
There still are few jokers which I come across during weddings or other social occasions who still think that Islamists would not harm them once they go back and things will go back to being normal.

I too have heard the stories about KP's not allowing Ghar-Wapasi and I am willing to accept them though there are no official proofs. Sad but reality of life.
Anyways as per my back of the envelope calculations, KP community will get subsumed in next 50-75 years and then only Kashmiri we will have is mostly treacherous Sunni Muslims.


^Have hope. The muslims themselves will be absorbed into the Sanatana dharma eventually (next 50-75 years being instrumental). The days of oil money making arabs and by extension muslims a power to reckon with is passing faster than one could have imagined. The plans for rechargeable battery manufacturing in India alone puts this in perspective (with the likes of an otherwise tarrif-averse Elon Musk salivating at the possibility). The world (and the USA/China/India in particular) have decided to make oil irrelevant and the arabs with it. Being a resident of Kerala, I know that the main reason local muslims hold arabs and their intolerant creed in such high esteem is their affluence (and percieved sophistication, even if skin deep). Once they are reduced to penury that has been their fate for most of human history, having to rely on peddling mecca tourism, these very same muslims (with their maulavis not getting bakshish form gelf) will wonder where to cast their lot, with the rising and prosperous Bharatvarsh or the sinking stinkhole of strife and poverty that will be the middle-east. I know they will not be as stupid as their arab coreligionists, after all, if porkistan had been an arab nation, it would have been a nulcear wasteland by now.

I love the picture you are painting. However, reality is that there won't be an overnight collapse of the petro-sheikhdoms. The process will be more complicated than that. Some may collapse rapidly due to some global economic calamity (would that leave a globalized India untouched?), some will diversify, with mixed success.

Point is, I don't think it is realistic to expect Kerala (or Telangana or Tamil Nadu) to get reclaimed due to global economic trends. The reclamation fight is something that has to be fought in its own right.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby sanjaykumar » 20 Aug 2019 21:58

KLNMurthy wrote:
sanjaykumar wrote:Maharaja Ranjit Singh, after the Dogra general Zorawar Singh's conquest, is said to have wanted reconversion of KM but the KP were against the idea.

Source?




This is part of the legends of Maharaja Ranjit Singh. Perhaps SBajwa can provide scholarly confirmation.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby KLNMurthy » 20 Aug 2019 22:18

Rudradev wrote:
KLNMurthy wrote:What is fascinating is the entire mainstream US media, ideological spectrum ranging from Democracy Now! to NPF to fox & WSJ are of one voice on thos topic. There is not even the pretense of presenting both sides, not even, "we left a voicemail 2 minutes before air time with GOI but no one got back to us" kind of thing. Opinion pieces are one thing, but even news reports are openly one-sided. And none of the usual "watchdogs " of whatever political stripe, utters so much as a yip.
...


To me this suggests that their outrage is not on Pakistan's behalf at all. It is entirely their own. THEY saw J&K as an embryonic client state of their own, albeit enclosed for the time being within the amniotic sac of a "disputed territory". THEY have themselves been affronted (and thwarted) by the A370 abrogation. This makes them furious.

This rampant one-sidedness of coverage, with opinion masquerading as "news", is exactly how Khanland discourse sounds when a threat to its own interests is perceived. Be it Iraqi "WMD" or Assad's "chemical weapons strikes" or Chavez/Maduro's Venezuela or whatever. There's no question of balance at all.

Consider this. Khanland saw exactly two potential locales where it hoped to grab and retain a territorial foothold in the Asian heartland. One is Afghanistan. Which is the other?

All that's happened is that, while earlier GOIs let the delusion fester through mumbling inaction, the current GOI has openly told them "in your dreams".


I'd mostly buy that. Open defiance (as they perceive it) brings out the knives and the civilized mask is flung aside. Muslim ruling classes do the same thing, e.g., razakars in Hyderabad.

Where I have difficulty is with the claim that "West" has always coveted Kashmir. It makes sense for them to covet it, but how do we know that they have?

I am more inclined to believe that it is 100% about the perceived defiance to which they have no answer and against which they are powerless. What Modi represents is inherently a deep affront and insult to their sense of order. And the breadth of the response/ reporting in this matter indicates a civilizational-level knee-jerk response.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby KLNMurthy » 20 Aug 2019 22:27

yensoy wrote:Unkil Sam doesn't like complexity. In his opinion, countries borders would be straight lines, with countries arranged like pieces of barfi on a plate. Each country or barfi would be wholly composed of the same race, speaking the same language and having the same religion. With that world view, "muslim-majority Kashmir" would most certainly be a legitimate claim of Pakistan since partition divided the region into "muslim Pakistan" and "hindu India".

Anything that needs understanding of complex, layered history or the subtlety of reasoning (where Pakistan is the land of "muslim 2 nation theory believers" and India is the nation of "2 nation theory disbelievers from all religions") would be hard to explain to the audience which has the attention span as long as the time to sip a cup of coffee (or take a dump). After that, the paper is discarded. So if you can't explain it in simple language, you are toast.

And there are other angles. Don't rock the boat. Don't distract from Afghanistan. Don't let India sort out its remaining problems. Yes sure, those too.


All good points, make perfect sense. But it doesn't explain the sheer unanimity of the chorus, not a single random blip, in the vast ecosystem, of someone asking, "wait a minute, how come Indians are do overwhelmingly in support of this move?" Even for form's sake, they didn't even try to ask "the other side " which happens to be practically everyone.

Even in the run-up to Iraq war,(may have been the first one, which was, oddly, more justifiable) they did a sit-down interview with Saddam.

Even when "hitler" Modi was about to win in 2014, they (fareed z) did an interview with Modi.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby RajD » 20 Aug 2019 23:10

Impotent Rage of assorted pakis and anal..ysts - Enjoy...( hope that its not posted before)
https://youtu.be/jMFIXhrdkbA

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby banrjeer » 20 Aug 2019 23:13

Advertisement revenue to current media orgs are deflating India’s brand and essentially devaluing all India based assets.

That’s problem identification.

If some of that revenue could start shifting to media houses that are not anti India it would be nice.

There’s a vacuum. There’s tagtv mostly talk shows?

How is Wion ?

On their own these orgs won’t scale to the task

If there was a desi mutdoch with funds
Perhaps arnab can lend/invest some funds not his voice please!

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby V_Raman » 20 Aug 2019 23:20

We need mota bhai to enter the media in India on India's side.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby DharmaB » 20 Aug 2019 23:22

schinnas wrote:
KLNMurthy wrote:
And the Supreme Court.


Despite his Congress ancestry and activist judge streak, the current CJI is both patriotic and honest (with impeccable financial integrity). I think his brother was ex Air Chief. However, he is about to retire in couple of months and it is important that judgement on 370 happens before Justice Chandrachud (judicial naxal) assumes role as CJI.


Before Justice Chandrachud (will be CJI in Nov 2022), Justice Bobde, Justice N.V.Ramana, Justice Lalit are next in line.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby chetak » 20 Aug 2019 23:26

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOrIeThfA-c



ये है महबूबा की असलियत || This is the reality of #MehboobaMufti #Jammu-Kashmir




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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Sandrokottos » 20 Aug 2019 23:35

KLNMurthy wrote:I love the picture you are painting. However, reality is that there won't be an overnight collapse of the petro-sheikhdoms. The process will be more complicated than that. Some may collapse rapidly due to some global economic calamity (would that leave a globalized India untouched?), some will diversify, with mixed success.

Point is, I don't think it is realistic to expect Kerala (or Telangana or Tamil Nadu) to get reclaimed due to global economic trends. The reclamation fight is something that has to be fought in its own right.


I agree, but I think it will help a lot. In a reclamation fight, it is important that the adversary does not have someone to run to, a sanctuary, a source of power and inspiration. I see global/middle-east trends in this regard. They will help, even if we will have to fight to win in the end.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby banrjeer » 20 Aug 2019 23:49

Sandrokottos wrote:
KLNMurthy wrote:I love the picture you are painting. However, reality is that there won't be an overnight collapse of the petro-sheikhdoms. The process will be more complicated than that. Some may collapse rapidly due to some global economic calamity (would that leave a globalized India untouched?), some will diversify, with mixed success.

Point is, I don't think it is realistic to expect Kerala (or Telangana or Tamil Nadu) to get reclaimed due to global economic trends. The reclamation fight is something that has to be fought in its own right.


I agree, but I think it will help a lot. In a reclamation fight, it is important that the adversary does not have someone to run to, a sanctuary, a source of power and inspiration. I see global/middle-east trends in this regard. They will help, even if we will have to fight to win in the end.


Aggregation of Oil and gas demand is what gives India leverage. In the future the demand demand can be hedged realigned with different suppliers, switched to renewables etc to play games. Demand always trumps supplier. Only China has greater leverage.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby banrjeer » 20 Aug 2019 23:50

Also on the oil and gas extraction technology, US and Europe are the real players, I don't think Arabs(using western tech) or China are in the same league.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby disha » 20 Aug 2019 23:51

KLNMurthy wrote:Where I have difficulty is with the claim that "West" has always coveted Kashmir. It makes sense for them to covet it, but how do we know that they have?


Check how West always coveted Gilgit and how their OBE honoured soldier killed his own regiment members and the true ruler of Gilgit to offer Gilgit on a plate to Bakistan.

With Bakis ceding Shaksgam to China, Ladakh became coveted too.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby NRao » 20 Aug 2019 23:58

In any future Kashmir discussions in the UN, both China and the UK need to recuse themselves.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby ShyamSP » 21 Aug 2019 00:16

NRao wrote:In any future Kashmir discussions in the UN, both China and the UK need to recuse themselves.


To say differently, if JK's legitimate instrument of accession is not good enough, India should table proposals/discussion in UN on Tibet, Taiwan, Hong kong, Xinjiang/other western regions, Ireland, Scotland, Falk Islands, Bradford?, etc.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby g.sarkar » 21 Aug 2019 00:23

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-49414213
Kashmir: Pakistan to seek International Court of Justice ruling
Pakistan has said it will take the Kashmir dispute to the International Court of Justice.
The move comes after India revoked the special autonomous status of the part of Kashmir that it administers.
Pakistan reacted to that decision by cutting trade and transport links, and expelling India's ambassador.
Kashmir - which both countries claim in full but rule in part - has been the site of decades of sporadic conflict.
"We have decided to take the Kashmir case to the International Court of Justice," Pakistan's Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi told ARY News TV on Tuesday.
"The decision was taken after considering all legal aspects."
.....
Gautam

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby pankajs » 21 Aug 2019 00:55

https://twitter.com/IndianAmbAnkara/sta ... 2351724545
Sanjay Bhattacharyya @IndianAmbAnkara

73000 of 93000 lines in Srinagar restored, rest in few days; Ladakh & Jammu fully restored. No daytime curfews in 136 of 197 police stations, Ladakh & Jammu fully restored. There has been gradual easing of restrictions. Local administration in control. Extraordinary situation

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby nachiket » 21 Aug 2019 00:56

Vikas wrote:
sanjaykumar wrote:Maharaja Ranjit Singh, after the Dogra general Zorawar Singh's conquest, is said to have wanted reconversion of KM but the KP were against the idea.


This was just a fanatasy by opponents of Kashmiris.Maharaja Ranjit Singh could have tried converting PM's first. But did he or could he ?

The story about KM Ghar-wapasi is actually related to Maharaja Ranbir Singh and the people who wanted to reconvert were not from Kashmir but from Poonch and surrounding region which as per the legend was opposed by Kashmiri's. The reason being, where do you place them in the caste hierarchy once a Muslim converts back to Hinduism. On top, there was no concept of ghar-wapasi during that period. Call it lack of vision, but not many were allowed to reconvert anywhere in Bharat till Swami Shradanand appeared on the horizon..
Heck even a local ex-Hindu ruler in Kashmir turned more Jehadi once he was refused reconversion.

Even assuming the stories are true KP's would hardly be the only ones among Hindus to indulge in this kind of "shoot oneself in the foot" behavior. There are stories like this from everywhere. Otherwise after years of Maratha and Sikh rule various parts of India (and even Pakistan) would have seen large scale reconversions, but did not.

Hell, as a Maharasthtrian, I cannot forget or forgive the infamous episode of Peshwa Bajirao's own son from Mastani being forced to be raised as a Muslim because the brain dead priests who refused to allow Bajirao to raise him as a Hindu Brahmin. Bear in mind that at this time Bajirao was quite possibly the most powerful man in all of India and these idiot priests might have been chanting La illaha il allah if not for Bajirao and his predecessors of the Maratha empire. If Bajirao could not do ghar-wapasi for his own son, doing it for regular people was impossible thanks to the ossified Hindu mentality of that period.

vijayk
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby vijayk » 21 Aug 2019 00:57

https://www.dailyo.in/politics/article- ... 31946.html
Article 370 scrapped: How Modi 2.0 is moving with a timetable and it looks unstoppable
From managing internal dissent to international criticism, the Modi-Shah duo left nothing to chance. Its swiftness and energy has thrown Pakistan completely off ground.

The Modi government is out to change the rules of engagement with Pakistan.

Two very telling messages to that effect have come, somewhat unexpectedly, from Rajnath Singh in his new avatar of Defence Minister.

First was his statement in Pokhran that India reserves its right to reconsider the "No First Use Policy" on the nuclear button based on the situation.

The second, coming in quick succession, was two days later in Panchkula. There he said emphatically that future dialogue with Pakistan on Kashmir, if any, will be only about Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (POK). A politician of Rajnath Singh's maturity would not make a cavalier statement unlike other motormouth BJP leaders. It would certainly have the endorsement of the Prime Minister.

India has now upped its game and moved above the league of Pakistan. Modi clearly envisages a much bigger role for India in the new world order, with a plan to sit at the global high table. So, he cannot afford to remain bogged down with Kashmir. As some discerning foreign policy commentators have pointed out, going forward, it is China that India needs to focus upon — rather than be distracted by Pakistan's mischief.

However, the ground has really shifted beneath the feet of the so-called 'mainstream' leaders. Coming out of confinement, they may cry hoarse about the reinstatement of Article 370 — but the size of their pie has been reduced for good by the bifurcation of the state. Whatever strategy they might adopt — whether covertly aligning with separatists or invoking support from across the border — their playground is now restricted to the Valley.

The writ of Omar Abdullah and Mehbooba Mufti, or even Shah Faesal, will not run in Jammu or Ladakh.

Their fiefdom has now been irreversibly truncated.

Therefore, in rooting for the old political royalty of Kashmir, their journalist friends are probably backing the wrong horses


Going forward, they will bet on the new generation of leadership which has come to the fore with the Panchayat elections that the mainstream parties boycotted out of arrogance and over-confidence. It is conceivable that sensing an opportunity, leaders like Sajad Lone will join the mainstreaming process, carrying along the second or third rung of National Conference (NC) and People's Democratic Party (PDP) leaders.

Modi's genius has been in capturing the imagination of the youth. He has been one of the first to understand that today's youngsters, who are much more aware of how the world is progressing, are unwilling to barter their present for the promise of a utopian future. They believe in the here and now.

If Modi can deliver some quick wins, then this generation can switch loyalties en masse. After all, they are able to see how their contemporaries are faring in Pakistan vis-à-vis youngsters of the same age group in mainland India.

As far as the old dynasts are concerned, they have enough sins to atone for and skeletons tumbling out each passing day. They would be well advised to cut their losses and seek am

UlanBatori
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby UlanBatori » 21 Aug 2019 02:16


UlanBatori
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby UlanBatori » 21 Aug 2019 02:19

Another day gone: Nothing to report. Situation Naarmal in ISRO-speak

KLNMurthy
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby KLNMurthy » 21 Aug 2019 02:29

Ghar wapasi is a huge thing. If St. Vidyaranya has not done gw for Harihara & Bukka, India would have gone the way of Iran in the 1300s itself.

Even now, I have been told that one obstacle to gw is that the returnees have difficulty finding matches for their children due to considerations of jati etc.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby NRao » 21 Aug 2019 03:04

ShyamSP wrote:
NRao wrote:In any future Kashmir discussions in the UN, both China and the UK need to recuse themselves.


To say differently, if JK's legitimate instrument of accession is not good enough, India should table proposals/discussion in UN on Tibet, Taiwan, Hong kong, Xinjiang/other western regions, Ireland, Scotland, Falk Islands, Bradford?, etc.


WaPo seems to be reporting that the EU is demanding a 370 for Northern Ireland!!!

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Rudradev » 21 Aug 2019 03:04

KLNMurthy wrote:I'd mostly buy that. Open defiance (as they perceive it) brings out the knives and the civilized mask is flung aside. Muslim ruling classes do the same thing, e.g., razakars in Hyderabad.

Where I have difficulty is with the claim that "West" has always coveted Kashmir. It makes sense for them to covet it, but how do we know that they have?

I am more inclined to believe that it is 100% about the perceived defiance to which they have no answer and against which they are powerless. What Modi represents is inherently a deep affront and insult to their sense of order. And the breadth of the response/ reporting in this matter indicates a civilizational-level knee-jerk response.


There's another angle to consider, too. RamaY had hinted at this when he still used to post here.

If you consider every move made by Wilsonian policymakers who dominated the US Foreign Policy Establishment upto 2016, one common theme emerges.

Following the "Arab Spring", there was no obvious reason for the West to back an intervention into Libya (Gaddafi had been mostly quiescent for a couple of decades). They had even less cause to back overtly Islamist groups attempting to overthrow Assad in Syria. Both interventions took place under the aegis of "human rights"... but that's what the West always says. Even at that time I couldn't fully understand what core interests the Wilsonian imperialists were pursuing through these designs.

Some people blame Israeli influence, at least for the Syria intervention... but even that is probably only partially true at best (despite the headaches of Assad-Hezbollah-Iran coziness, would Tel Aviv really want an ISIS-type Caliphate sitting on its northern border?)

Hypothesis: it is possible that both the Libya and the Syria interventions were intended to cause exactly the type of disruption that they overwhelmingly inflicted on previously stable countries from Turkey to the UK... by loading them up with literally millions of peaceful refugees.

This has been the most debilitating blow to the EU's stability in the last decade, or possibly at any time. Vast influxes of peacefuls from the hinterlands of North Africa and the Levant have led directly to the rise of far-right nativist parties from Italy to Germany to the Netherlands to France, and concomitantly a thorough weakening of EU political and economic unity. This has happened even as the previously dominant social-democratic parties in these countries have foundered under the weight of their own reflexive dhimmitude. It has also led to a vast spate of terrorist incidents, from the German Christmas-Market truck assault to the Paris nightclub massacre to the Brussels airport bombing to the Manchester concert-hall attack... all with predictable effects on the political situations in these countries.

To continue the hypothesis: in fact, the Wilsonian backing of Islamist-fomented turmoil, leading to large movements of migrant populations and subsequent political disruption has not been limited to Europe.

Why is it that the Philippines and Thailand have been hectored and threatened for strong action against Islamist separatists on their turf? Why is it that Myanmar has been relentlessly condemned (including its leader, the former favourite of Western capitals, Aung San Suu Kyi) over its actions against the terrorist Rohingya group ARSA?

Why was India then reviled in the Western MSM for its reluctance to accept Rohingya (even though Arakan state, where they hail from, shares no border with us), and for-- of all things-- the move to formalize the NRC? Headlines in the Western MSM, particularly left-of-center outlets, screamed bloody murder with accusations that India was planning to "disenfranchise 4 million Muslims in the northeast" (completely obscuring the fact that they were never entitled to citizenship rights in the first place). Even this week, Jeffrey Gutterman of the NYTimes has come out with a hit piece entitled "India Plans Large Detention Centers for Migrants. Muslims Worry".

Even the Sri Lanka bombings, after the initial shock and sympathy, were followed up with NYT and WaPo articles "explaining" how both Muslims and Christians have been "marginalized" by Buddhist fundamentalists in Sri Lanka and Myanmar, and obligatorily, by Hindu Nationalists in Modi's India.

Do we recognize the consistent contours of the global narrative being engineered here, from Western Europe to Southeast Asia?

What is it all for? What is the plan? I still can't put it all together in my head. The effects of political disruption in the EU were perhaps intended by the Clinton-Kerry-Biden cabal to pressurize EU social-democrat governments, like Merkel and Hollande; the resulting instability would increase their compulsion to comply with Washington's diktats rather than asserting independence (as in trade deals with Russia, for example). However, their ultimate consequence was to strengthen the far-right in Europe even as Trump won a completely unplanned electoral victory in the US itself.

But this much is clear. The Wilsonian imperialists in the US... whose interests the MSM (NYT, WaPo, CNN, you know the rest) unstintingly serve... appear to have hit upon a plan of reversing the legacy of the 9/11 era. Throughout the 1990s and 2000s, the US was the Great Satan for Sunni Islamists... the number one enemy that had to be destroyed at all costs. This culminated in the 9/11 attacks. The initial (Neocon) American response to these attacks was military invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq... both of which drained the treasury and produced no satisfactory strategic outcome.

I believe the Wilsonian remedy has been this: stir the Islamic pot more, empower militant fundamentalists wherever possible... but make sure they are directed against everybody else but America, or at least against everybody else as much as America.

The Wilsonians have essentially internalized the idea that Islamism cannot be quelled by wars and invasion, as the Neocons had hoped... these societies will not welcome "liberators" and become democracies singing paeans of gratitude to Washington, no matter how much American blood & treasure is spent on their behalf. The next-best idea is to make sure they become much bigger problems for everybody else. Washington can then play the great benevolent mediator by triangulating Islamists against the regimes they oppose in local conflicts. This is why Hillary Clinton (and her hatchet-girl Abedin) imposed the Islamist Morsi upon Egypt; this is why they knocked over Gaddafi and tried to depose Assad; this is why their MSM mouthpieces relentlessly propagandize on behalf of Islamists throughout the Indian subcontinent and Southeast Asia.

J&K was very much in the sights of the Wilsonians as another potential focus of this kind of activity. Obama himself was never quite on board with the plan (it is documented that he actively resisted the Wilsonians' demands to fully back the "Free Syrian Army" for example). But had Clinton won the 2016 election, we would have seen J&K go up in flames just as Arakan, Mindanao, and Patani have.

This is the opportunity they may have been salivating to exploit if Joe Biden becomes the next President in 2020. Their outrage is at seeing India move to defuse the IED pre-emptively. There is nothing they want more than to see the people of Kashmir, Arakan, Syria, Libya and elsewhere suffocate themselves with the identitarian garb of Islamist sub-nationalism... this makes them useful pawns to the Wilsonian design. If these very same people become politically, socially, and economically integrated into the nation-states of which they are also citizens, then not only do they cease to be pawns, but they add to the strengths of the sovereign nations who integrate them. A double-whammy to Wilsonian internationalists, whose only "natural" ally has always been the global, transnational Sunni ummah.
Last edited by Rudradev on 21 Aug 2019 03:18, edited 3 times in total.


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