J&K Union Territory-2019

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
vijayk
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3972
Joined: 22 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby vijayk » 21 Aug 2019 03:10

Rudradev wrote:
KLNMurthy wrote:.



This is the opportunity they may have been salivating to exploit if Joe Biden becomes the next President in 2020. Their outrage is at seeing India move to defuse the IED pre-emptively. There is nothing they want more than to see the people of Kashmir, Arakan, Syria, Libya and elsewhere suffocate themselves with the identitarian garb of Islamist sub-nationalism... this makes them useful pawns to the Wilsonian design. If these very same people become politically, socially, and economically integrated into the nation-states of which they are also citizens, then not only do they cease to be pawns, but they add to the strengths of the sovereign nations who integrate them. A double-whammy to Wilsonian internationalists, whose only "natural" ally has always been the global, transnational Sunni ummah.


Excellent analysis.

Several of Clinton foundation clique and camapaign managers are part of think tanks that push these progressive ideas and Islamophobia is their tool

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53299
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby ramana » 21 Aug 2019 03:14

vijayk, I called it Operational Art in statecraft.

Moving so fast that the OODA loop is overwhelmed.

For years in future, they Kennedy School of Govt will study this and make case studies.

Basically by making it UTJK the original accession is preserved and the question to debate is when POJK will be integrated.


Even Crimea is not this smooth.

krithivas
BRFite
Posts: 421
Joined: 20 Oct 2002 11:31
Location: Offline

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby krithivas » 21 Aug 2019 03:15

Side note - Dravidianism would not have occupied mainstream in Tamil Nadu IF ONLY the Kasi Temple had fed him one meal just one meal - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periyar_E._V._Ramasamy
The point is arrogance always has a price to pay later.

KLNMurthy wrote:Ghar wapasi is a huge thing. If St. Vidyaranya has not done gw for Harihara & Bukka, India would have gone the way of Iran in the 1300s itself.

Even now, I have been told that one obstacle to gw is that the returnees have difficulty finding matches for their children due to considerations of jati etc.

Vips
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2103
Joined: 14 Apr 2017 18:23

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Vips » 21 Aug 2019 03:17

banrjeer wrote:
Sandrokottos wrote:
I agree, but I think it will help a lot. In a reclamation fight, it is important that the adversary does not have someone to run to, a sanctuary, a source of power and inspiration. I see global/middle-east trends in this regard. They will help, even if we will have to fight to win in the end.


Aggregation of Oil and gas demand is what gives India leverage. In the future the demand demand can be hedged realigned with different suppliers, switched to renewables etc to play games. Demand always trumps supplier. Only China has greater leverage.


China has big plans to import Oil from Russia and hence you see Russia becoming its lackey. China cannot import oil both from Gulf and Russia (atleast in the quantity that india does) and hence loses the leverage which India can capitalize on.

vijayk
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3972
Joined: 22 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby vijayk » 21 Aug 2019 03:20

ramana wrote:vijayk, I called it Operational Art in statecraft.

Moving so fast that the OODA loop is overwhelmed.

For years in future, they Kennedy School of Govt will study this and make case studies.

Basically by making it UTJK the original accession is preserved and the question to debate is when POJK will be integrated.


Even Crimea is not this smooth.


Yes.

BTW ... what is OODA?


Another angle to Joe Biden ... He was heading Foreign Relations committee that investigated India's nuclear tests. I read somewhere he lamnted the fact that human intelligence was missing when we succeded in doing nuclear tests and he vowed to fill that gaps.

Fortunately for them, $onia won in 2004 and they have now left/NGOs/vatican agents all sitting in every position to leak, control every center of power

Vips
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2103
Joined: 14 Apr 2017 18:23

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Vips » 21 Aug 2019 03:22

g.sarkar wrote:https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-49414213
Kashmir: Pakistan to seek International Court of Justice ruling
Pakistan has said it will take the Kashmir dispute to the International Court of Justice.
The move comes after India revoked the special autonomous status of the part of Kashmir that it administers.
Pakistan reacted to that decision by cutting trade and transport links, and expelling India's ambassador.
Kashmir - which both countries claim in full but rule in part - has been the site of decades of sporadic conflict.
"We have decided to take the Kashmir case to the International Court of Justice," Pakistan's Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi told ARY News TV on Tuesday.
"The decision was taken after considering all legal aspects."
.....
Gautam


As usual it will cut a very sorry figure at the ICJ.
It is itself guilty of changing the status quo of Kashmir by creating Northern area(Gilgit -Baltistan).
It has changed the demography in POK and Gilgit Baltistan.
It illegally ceded a chunk of Kashmir to China.
It has systematically carried out a genocide of Hazara Shias in the Northern area.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53299
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby ramana » 21 Aug 2019 03:26

Rudradev wrote:....
Do we recognize the consistent contours of the global narrative being engineered here, from Western Europe to Southeast Asia?

What is it all for? What is the plan?
I still can't put it all together in my head. The effects of political disruption in the EU were perhaps intended by the Clinton-Kerry-Biden cabal to pressurize EU social-democrat governments, like Merkel and Hollande, and increase their compulsion to comply with Washington's diktats rather than asserting independence (as in trade deals with Russia, for example). However, their ultimate consequence was to strengthen the far-right in Europe even as Trump won a completely unplanned electoral victory in the US itself.

But this much is clear. The Wilsonian imperialists in the US... whose interests the MSM (NYT, WaPo, CNN, you know the rest) unstintingly serve... appear to have hit upon a plan of reversing the legacy of the 9/11 era. Throughout the 1990s and 2000s, the US was the Great Satan for Sunni Islamists... the number one enemy that had to be destroyed at all costs. This culminated in the 9/11 attacks. The initial (Neocon) American response to these attacks was military invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq... both of which drained the treasury and produced no satisfactory strategic outcome.

I believe the Wilsonian remedy has been this: stir the Islamic pot more, empower militant fundamentalists wherever possible... but make sure they are directed against everybody else but America, or at least against everybody else as much as America.

The Wilsonians have essentially internalized the idea that Islamism cannot be quelled by wars and invasion, as the Neocons had hoped... these societies will not welcome "liberators" and become democracies singing paeans of gratitude to Washington, no matter how much American blood & treasure is spent on their behalf. The next-best idea is to make sure they become much bigger problems for everybody else. Washington can then play the great benevolent mediator by triangulating Islamists against the regimes they oppose in local conflicts. This is why Hillary Clinton (and her hatchet-girl Abedin) imposed the Islamist Morsi upon Egypt; this is why they knocked over Gaddafi and tried to depose Assad; this is why their MSM mouthpieces relentlessly propagandize on behalf of Islamists throughout the Indian subcontinent and Southeast Asia.

J&K was very much in the sights of the Wilsonians as another potential focus of this kind of activity. Obama himself was never quite on board with the plan (it is documented that he actively resisted the Wilsonians' demands to fully back the "Free Syrian Army" for example). But had Clinton won the 2016 election, we would have seen J&K go up in flames just as Arakan, Mindanao, and Patani have.


....


I see it differently.
The end of Cold War and collapse of FSU, for there was no reason for FSU once Cold War ended, leads to the giant world island Eurasia emerging.

Since end of Cold War we saw China reach out to Eurasia with BRI the new Silk route and bypassing the ocean trade routes created during the Age of Sail.

All these three choke points: Ukraine to prevent harmony between Russia and EU, Syria to prevent oil pipelines to Mediterranean, and Afghan-Kashmir region to attack BRI with peace-fools and destabilize ensures Mahan's strategy is still relevant.

I submit these three turmoiled regions are to prevent the Rabbit from rising and casting the two Palm Leaves back to pre-history.

Aka to prevent the Mackinder nightmare.

Rudradev
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3485
Joined: 06 Apr 2003 12:31

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Rudradev » 21 Aug 2019 03:38

ramana wrote:
All these three choke points: Ukraine to prevent harmony between Russia and EU, Syria to prevent oil pipelines to Mediterranean, and Afghan-Kashmir region to attack BRI with peace-fools and destabilize ensures Mahan's strategy is still relevant.

I submit these three turmoiled regions are to prevent the Rabbit from rising and casting the two Palm Leaves back to pre-history.

Aka to prevent the Mackinder nightmare.


These are the specific locations involved but the common theme is that other powers must be denied the *agency* to act independently.

So- tie down the Social Democrats in EU by destabilizing them with Syrian/Libyan/other peaceful refugees.

Tie down Syria/Egypt/Levant with post "Arab-spring" maneuvers.

Tie down India from asserting its own sovereignty over J&K and acquiring an overland route to Afghanistan.

Tie down SE Asian states from becoming too closely integrated with PRC's OBOR initiative, by propping up Rohingyas and similar groups in Thailand/Philippines. Sri Lanka too.

Ultimately, if possible, tie down Cheen itself in Xinjiang by instigating the Uighurs (Beijing has moved, however crudely, to forestall exactly this intitiative).

So what is the "rope" that, in each and every case, is used to tie down sovereign powers in all these strategically relevant locales, and prevent them from acting independently?

Sole exceptions being Ukraine and Hong Kong... but the proxies employed there will never have the transnational Ummah's staying-power or potential to inflict persistent, crippling harm.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12479
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby UlanBatori » 21 Aug 2019 03:58

In this tamasha, what is needed is to get entertainers to speak with sympathy for the nationalist pov. You or I saying "Abrogation of 370 was good!" is not the same as say, Amitabh Baachan saying it or Madhuri Dixit crooning it. All sympathy I may have for Kashmiris comes from remembering Mumtazji in "Roti Kapda Aur Makaan". I see that Anupam Kher has come with something on the genocide against the KH. Good! Much more needed along these lines.

Indian movie-going/TV-watching public need to get the message across to the entertainers (Bollywood etc) that they need to be seen as coming on board at this critical time (or face irrelevance and disdain). I wonder how to accomplish this - the only domain where "we" have any clout is Teetar: not even fB.

I am not just :(( . I am seeking some brainshtaarming and acshun.
Last edited by UlanBatori on 21 Aug 2019 04:00, edited 1 time in total.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53299
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby ramana » 21 Aug 2019 03:58

First come strategy and then tactics.
The rope is tactics and can be defeated once the strategy is understood.

The rope is fear and dissension among these powers.

disha
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 7167
Joined: 03 Dec 2006 04:17
Location: gaganaviharin

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby disha » 21 Aug 2019 04:10

rudra'ji and raman'ji - excellent analysis.

I do see contours of both wilsonian intervention and mackinder nightmare. But have a separate and a little simplistic viewpoint.

So rudradev'ji, I wholeheartedly agree the following:

J&K was very much in the sights of the Wilsonians as another potential focus of this kind of activity. Obama himself was never quite on board with the plan (it is documented that he actively resisted the Wilsonians' demands to fully back the "Free Syrian Army" for example). But had Clinton won the 2016 election, we would have seen J&K go up in flames just as Arakan, Mindanao, and Patani have.


Ombama was very much co-opted into it by the Nobull Piss Prize.

Here is what the wilsonian intervention posits (from wiki)

Emphasis on self-determination of peoples
Advocacy of the spread of democracy
Advocacy of the spread of capitalism
Opposition to isolationism and non-interventionism
In favor of intervention.


And here is what the Mackinder hypothesis is (from wiki)

"Who rules East Europe commands the Heartland;
who rules the Heartland commands the World-Island;
who rules the World-Island commands the world."


While Mackinder also assumed that any western country superior in "virility, equipment and organization" can rule the east europe and command the world island. Enabled in 20th century using rail road and motor ways.

German attack on Soviet Union should be seen in that context as well.

However both of the above theories are after thought. The theories are to explain their existing power position.

That is, the theories are advanced to support Imperialism (or Neo-Colonialism)

Once one is in a powerful situation using various means, the power has to be propagated. Better that it is perpetuated. Reducing Libya to a neo-colony should be considered thus as a goal. It helps perpetuate power and two, Libya was always a colony - since middle-ages. Ottomans followed by Italians and now western countries.

Propagating power has further benefits, including keeping the competitors from not arising or keeping them engaged from within, cornering their resources (human, energy, fiscal, political etc) or making them spend it wastefully or pulling them into their orbit of influence or various combinations of all of the above (think Cashmere!)

For the countries or states propagating their power to corner influence and resources, all the theories including liberal theories come to good use. I call it hypocritical liberalism.

At dawn of 21st century, America was the sole super power. Its national interests were intertwined with its corporate interests. Its needs satiated, its greed for power kept on growing and thus the "interventions".

Islamo-fascism just became a tool for neo-colonialism or rather colonialism under the garb of liberalism. Remember, Islamo-fascism was successfully used and discarded as a condom once to bring an entire empire down. Hence it is a great tool to bring down several entities.

Islamo-fascism is nothing but a condom on hypocritical liberalism.

disha
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 7167
Joined: 03 Dec 2006 04:17
Location: gaganaviharin

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby disha » 21 Aug 2019 04:14

Added later:

EU was a blowback. Some of it was expected, not in the scale seen

Defeat in Crimea and Syria was not anticipated.

Weakening of S. Barbaria and its own disastrous war in Yemen and slump in global economy and slump in oil production was not foreseen

Rise of technology to move ideas and create efficiencies was not understood.

banrjeer
BRFite
Posts: 230
Joined: 21 Dec 2008 14:39

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby banrjeer » 21 Aug 2019 04:25

I don't agree with this notion of a masterful "Wilsonian strategy". It's just a haphazard/accidental plan B ..a kind of organic chaos that ensues with a geographically challenged empire who never really understood the world and are trying their best to manage/disengage.

Hillary's meddling in Ukraine and Kushner's efforts can't be called great strategy and coherent power projection. Hopefully they get better at this.??

Others pointed out:
Jinnah was an unwitting RAA Agint and ensured a modicum of unification/de-balkanization of the non pissfuls enough to amalgamate Indic idiots to a critical mass. A nucleus necessary to start the eventual balkanization and engulfment/autophagy of pissfulls.

Tarek Fatah and Tahir Gora are vehemently pro-Modi. No need for Wapasi there. They are not the only ones. The tide will grow.
As for finding matches for Wapasi kids .... Lets not be too fretful , I think they will manage in this day and age !

Anujan
Forum Moderator
Posts: 6936
Joined: 27 May 2007 03:55

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Anujan » 21 Aug 2019 06:15

I think formally the arrest and deportation of every terrorist in JK and Pakistan paying reparations for the terrorism victims should be a core part of any discussion about JK with Pakistan.

This issue frequently takes the back burner in "talks" between India/Pak which invariably centers around soft borders, free movement etc etc.

Roop
BRFite
Posts: 246
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Roop » 21 Aug 2019 06:44

vijayk wrote:BTW ... what is OODA?



The acronym means "Observe - Orient - Decide - Act". Rather than trying to explain it here, I would suggest you look it up on Wikipedia.

krishna_krishna
BRFite
Posts: 789
Joined: 23 Oct 2006 04:14

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby krishna_krishna » 21 Aug 2019 07:07

Rudradev wrote:
KLNMurthy wrote:
If you consider every move made by Wilsonian policymakers who dominated the US Foreign Policy Establishment upto 2016, one common theme emerges.

Following the "Arab Spring", there was no obvious reason for the West to back an intervention into Libya (Gaddafi had been mostly quiescent for a couple of decades). They had even less cause to back overtly Islamist groups attempting to overthrow Assad in Syria. Both interventions took place under the aegis of "human rights"... but that's what the West always says. Even at that time I couldn't fully understand what core interests the Wilsonian imperialists were pursuing through these designs.


Hypothesis: it is possible that both the Libya and the Syria interventions were intended to cause exactly the type of disruption that they overwhelmingly inflicted on previously stable countries from Turkey to the UK... by loading them up with literally millions of peaceful refugees.

This has been the most debilitating blow to the EU's stability in the last decade, or possibly at any time. Vast influxes of peacefuls from the hinterlands of North Africa and the Levant have led directly to the rise of far-right nativist parties from Italy to Germany to the Netherlands to France, and concomitantly a thorough weakening of EU political and economic unity. This has happened even as the previously dominant social-democratic parties in these countries have foundered under the weight of their own reflexive dhimmitude. It has also led to a vast spate of terrorist incidents, from the German Christmas-Market truck assault to the Paris nightclub massacre to the Brussels airport bombing to the Manchester concert-hall attack... all with predictable effects on the political situations in these countries.

To continue the hypothesis: in fact, the Wilsonian backing of Islamist-fomented turmoil, leading to large movements of migrant populations and subsequent political disruption has not been limited to Europe.

Why is it that the Philippines and Thailand have been hectored and threatened for strong action against Islamist separatists on their turf? Why is it that Myanmar has been relentlessly condemned (including its leader, the former favourite of Western capitals, Aung San Suu Kyi) over its actions against the terrorist Rohingya group ARSA?

Why was India then reviled in the Western MSM for its reluctance to accept Rohingya (even though Arakan state, where they hail from, shares no border with us), and for-- of all things-- the move to formalize the NRC? Headlines in the Western MSM, particularly left-of-center outlets, screamed bloody murder with accusations that India was planning to "disenfranchise 4 million Muslims in the northeast" (completely obscuring the fact that they were never entitled to citizenship rights in the first place). Even this week, Jeffrey Gutterman of the NYTimes has come out with a hit piece entitled "India Plans Large Detention Centers for Migrants. Muslims Worry".

Even the Sri Lanka bombings, after the initial shock and sympathy, were followed up with NYT and WaPo articles "explaining" how both Muslims and Christians have been "marginalized" by Buddhist fundamentalists in Sri Lanka and Myanmar, and obligatorily, by Hindu Nationalists in Modi's India.

Do we recognize the consistent contours of the global narrative being engineered here, from Western Europe to Southeast Asia?

What is it all for? What is the plan? I still can't put it all together in my head.

But this much is clear. The Wilsonian imperialists in the US... whose interests the MSM (NYT, WaPo, CNN, you know the rest) unstintingly serve... appear to have hit upon a plan of reversing the legacy of the 9/11 era. Throughout the 1990s and 2000s, the US was the Great Satan for Sunni Islamists... the number one enemy that had to be destroyed at all costs. This culminated in the 9/11 attacks. The initial (Neocon) American response to these attacks was military invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq... both of which drained the treasury and produced no satisfactory strategic outcome.

I believe the Wilsonian remedy has been this: stir the Islamic pot more, empower militant fundamentalists wherever possible... but make sure they are directed against everybody else but America, or at least against everybody else as much as America.

The Wilsonians have essentially internalized the idea that Islamism cannot be quelled by wars and invasion, as the Neocons had hoped... these societies will not welcome "liberators" and become democracies singing paeans of gratitude to Washington, no matter how much American blood & treasure is spent on their behalf. The next-best idea is to make sure they become much bigger problems for everybody else. Washington can then play the great benevolent mediator by triangulating Islamists against the regimes they oppose in local conflicts. This is why Hillary Clinton (and her hatchet-girl Abedin) imposed the Islamist Morsi upon Egypt; this is why they knocked over Gaddafi and tried to depose Assad; this is why their MSM mouthpieces relentlessly propagandize on behalf of Islamists throughout the Indian subcontinent and Southeast Asia.



Deep as usual, I can add few points which might be relevant :

This is follow on Kissinger's policy of Domino Theory, if you read now what is happening is in essence a "reverse" domino theory effect after collapse of Soviet Union. From wiki as per speech from us president Eisenhower :
==========================================================================================================
Finally, you have broader considerations that might follow what you would call the "falling domino" principle. You have a row of dominoes set up, you knock over the first one, and what will happen to the last one is the certainty that it will go over very quickly. So you could have a beginning of a disintegration that would have the most profound influences.
===========================================================================================================
At the time of end of WW II it was communism the was the common enemy that was threat to , massa and western imperial trade routes and geopolitical control. The domino theory was used used many times during Cold War to justify American intervention for precisely this thing from Vietnam to Iraq.

Idea was that any spread of influence of communism to outside buffer zone of USSR is a threat to US national security (Even if it happened via elections). Now fast forward we come to present times, even after Gaddafi gave up its Nucler program , same with Saddam was defeated there was no need or I should say threat to US to pursue the military campaigns but still they went ahead.

The real threat now is spread of Iran's radical theocracy throughout the region. Shia's who are 10 times more channelized to perform vs. sunni counterparts. IF this sreads outside the buffer zones, the control is gone for the geostrategic locations and strategic resources in that area. Same reasons for Kashmir, it is the holy grail to contain India , China, Afghanistan and Russia.

From historic perspective Mahraja ranjit Singh did conquer and rule Afghanistan and Kashmir.

==========================================================================================================

Another trick that my mind plays is with Game theory, the plan is to have less players so that in the end it is easy for one to rule at the end. How this happens :

If you see porkis and western media they are all sponsoring and igniting fuel to the fire of Sikh separatism, they are good hindus are bad. Porkis love the Sikh brother nowadays, don't you think that is Irony given Sikhism was created and fought all the wars against Islam for violence , torture and killings of dharmics and non muslims.

Why now lost love simple if hinduism recedes it would be easy mop up the rest after fall of hinduism. Buddhists, Jains , Sikh are all game and easy to wind up.

Same way if islam is given space its hindus who take the brunt, so if Islam and Evangelists can team up to destroy pagans the better it is for both and then in the end its Islam vs. christianity. IF you talk to any Syrians or Iraqis lately you will see that there is a quantum jump is number of Christiaan believe followers from these places in recent times. So if they both can work something out while poaching (conversions) on non abrahmics better for them.

Shubham Astu

============================================================================================================

Thakur_B
BRFite
Posts: 1431
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Thakur_B » 21 Aug 2019 08:19

https://mobile.twitter.com/rahulpandita ... 9732395008

^^ Rahul Pandita suggests that separatist leaders will be released soon, lead to a few angry opeds and the drama will die a natural death.

CRamS
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6427
Joined: 07 Oct 2006 20:54
Contact:

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby CRamS » 21 Aug 2019 09:27

On face of it, its India TSP equal equal from Trump bahadur, but if the upcoming meeting between ModiJi and Trump at G-7 results in some tough posture against TSP, not a bad thing.

https://www.rediff.com/news/report/trum ... 190821.htm

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11912
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby pankajs » 21 Aug 2019 09:49

CRamS wrote:On face of it, its India TSP equal equal from Trump bahadur, but if the upcoming meeting between ModiJi and Trump at G-7 results in some tough posture against TSP, not a bad thing.

https://www.rediff.com/news/report/trum ... 190821.htm

A colonized mind hangs on every word of the "gora colonizer" and sets up an impossible condition to invalidate his theory and will do rudali when it is not met. Bhai wah!

1. G-7 is not to discuss bakistan
2. India has moved beyond Bakistan

https://twitter.com/KanchanGupta/status ... 6114447360
Kanchan Gupta @KanchanGupta

The rehyphenation is a doing of the Commentariat and analysts in #India -- they can't pen a sentence without mentioning #Pakistan.

Kanchan Gupta is wrong to the extent that "rehyphenation" or "equal equal" is also a doing of folks who are still in thralls of the "gora colonizer".

Yagnasri
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9514
Joined: 29 May 2007 18:03

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Yagnasri » 21 Aug 2019 10:00

Trump may not be too eager to involve himself. After all he is a business man and there is no profit or advantage to help a beggar nation link Pak at the cost of angering a very profitable relationship India. Having said that I am very sure the US SD establishment will press for it.

Anujan
Forum Moderator
Posts: 6936
Joined: 27 May 2007 03:55

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Anujan » 21 Aug 2019 10:03

He's busy buying Greenland

wig
BRFite
Posts: 1731
Joined: 09 Feb 2009 16:58

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby wig » 21 Aug 2019 10:27

https://www.financialexpress.com/india- ... r/1681520/

US pres will meet our PM at the G7 meet in France
extracts
US President Donald Trump on Tuesday said he would discuss the tense situation in Kashmir with Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi when they meet at the G7 Summit in France during this weekend. “I will be with Prime Minister Modi…I’ll be with him over the weekend in France. I think, we are helping (resolve the tense) situation (between India and Pakistan),” Trump told reporters in the Oval Office of the White House.

The development came a day after Trump spoke separately to Prime Minister Narendra Modi and his Pakistani counterpart Imran Khan in his bid to ease fresh Indo-Pak tensions after India revoked the special status of Jammu and Kashmir.


and


Trump said that there are “tremendous problems” between the two countries and offered to do the best, including mediate or anything. “I will do the best I can to mediate or do something. (I have) great relationship with both of them, but they (India and Pakistan) are not exactly friends at this moment,” Trump said.

this is
Trump said the tensed situation also has a lot to do with religion. “It’s a complicated situation. A lot has to do with religion. Religion is a complicated subject,” he said. Trump said that the subcontinent is having “these talks for hundreds (sic) of years, even under different names,” he said responding to a question on Kashmir, which he said is a very complicated place.

“You have the Hindus. And you have the Muslims. I wouldn’t say they get along so great. That’s what you have right now,” he said adding that the two countries haven’t got along for a long time.

KLNMurthy
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3827
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 13:06

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby KLNMurthy » 21 Aug 2019 10:27

@Rudradev, I am probably running dangerously close to Bredator range by continuing this strand, fascinating while it certainly is. I'll take a last run at this, before I attract a mizl strike.

What if, there is really no grand plan as such, only reflexive responses based on very sketchy and superficial knowledge coupled with civilizationally impaired ratiocinative powers? Is it possible that it is all just so much white noise + knee-jerk aversion when the idolatrous Hindu doesn't stay in his place + credibility instinctively afforded to a civilization (Islamic) that had, over the centuries, done battle with the West, often very very successfully?

You mentioned a Wilsonian outlook leading to the infamous "we came, we saw and he died" outcome in Libya. But Libya was primarily and originally a european initiative, was it not, with US "leading from behind" and all? And wasn't Europe deeply enmeshed in the dog's breakfast they made of Syria? If the goal was to throw Europe in turmoil, does it make sense that Europeans themselves were mostly involved in, and even driving, the project?

Back to India & JnK. I have reluctantly come to believe that there is widespread and deeply-seated anti-Hindu prejudice worldwide, not least among Hindus themselves. I have an idea or two about why this is the case. Due to a very peculiar kind of civilizational blindness, Hindus have not learned to see themselves as the sub-human enemies of Muslims and Christians, as the latter see them. Even now, Hindus mostly view all conflict with their sworn enemies as something of an extraordinarily intense sporting encounter. (I suppose it speaks to the core abilities and skills of Hindus as a whole that, despite this cavalier attitude on their part, they still managed to prevail enough to still have a fighting chance after all these centuries).

I think Hindus became "trained" to be the civilization that offers token "sporting" resistance and then carries on. In turn, they "trained" the Muslim and Christian (generally Western) world to expect this kind of sporting attitude on the Hindus' part.

I think what broke this mold is again a civilizational element. Modi and Shah are both Gujaratis and Vaishyas (the first a de facto Vaishya and I believe the second is a honest-to-goodness Vaishya, who used to be a stockbroker even). They are not Brahmins, Kshatriyas or "sacchudras"--high-born glorified Shudras and quasi-Shudras like Yadavs, Kammas and Reddys that are de facto Kshatriya. In effect, they all have a kind of unwritten "rule book" that has driven this "sporting" approach to conflict.

As vaishyas, I believe Modi and Shah's instincts run to making money, growing wealth, and defending that wealth. And accounting for it. I don't really have concrete evidence for all of this, except for a notoriously unreliable "gut." I listened to Shah's LS speech on the JnK reorg, and was struck by how much emphasis he placed on the failure of the old J&K regime to account for the billions that the Indian State sent them. Maybe I am fanciful, but I thought I sensed the rage of a Chartered Accountant who runs an audit to discover that the books are a mess. This is different from any leader of India or any other country I had observed.

You might say, as serious vaishyas, Modi & Shah neither indulge in BS nor do they tolerate BS. (Modi keeps stating this in fact, but, as might be expected of a culture dominated by unearned rentier wealth which is by implication unvalued--like the zamindars in the movie Sahib, Bibi & Ghulam--the high and might of yesterday's India can't even hear him, let alone believe him)

To sum up this somewhat incoherent exposition:

- What we have is a Vaishya revolution, run by a coterie that is committed to native-born business ethics that were grown and refined in India, specifically in Gujarat.

- Modi et al's acceptance, and even popularity by some Muslim regimes (like the UAE) can perhaps be understood as the businessman element of Muslim culture recognizing a fellow businessman.

- Indian ancien regime's virulence is similarly explainable--the Ashraf-Brahmin-Kshatriya-ElevatedShudra coalition is upset at being displaced, for the first time in time immemorial.

- Western media? On the surface, yes, they are businesspeople, and might be expected to accept Modi. However, as a class, these businesspeople have long striven to avoid genuine marketplace competition. From colonialism to plantation slavery to 20th and 21st century militarized mercantilism and corporate-controlled elected representatives who rig regulations for them, they had cultivated habits that alienated them from true international competition where everyone plays by the same rules. (a bit of broadbrushing here, but not much, emphasis here on the 'international.'). After China--which the West foolishly enriched by underestimating its civilization and people, it is India that could potentially crush, in business competition, a flabby Western corporate culture that has got out of the habit of actually working for its profits instead of rigging the rules. And India has far more freedom of maneuvering in business than China, being entwined far less than the latter in the Western system.

- The JnK reorg is a signal that Modi & co are not unaware of their strength and power and are not hesitant to wield it.

- Modi is a threat, a very dangerous one at that, but for all that, he is only a precursor for what can come. It is illogical that 1.3 Billion Indians, a large percentage of whom, it now turns out, have retained their connection to their ancient culture, while being completely at home in the modern globalized world, contain only one Modi or one Shah. Even at 1%, there are 13 million Modi-Shahs waiting to take their place, and not all of them struggling chaiwallahs who were obliged to complete their degrees by corresponsence.

I seem to have written myself into admitting that if I were in an adversarial position to Modi, and something of my father will go due to the Modi revolution, I would be out there screaming about Hitler and Fascism as well.
Last edited by KLNMurthy on 21 Aug 2019 10:54, edited 3 times in total.

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11912
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby pankajs » 21 Aug 2019 10:33

wig wrote:https://www.financialexpress.com/india-news/its-a-very-explosive-situation-donald-trump-again-offers-to-mediate-on-kashmir/1681520/

US pres will meet our PM at the G7 meet in France
Trump said that there are “tremendous problems” between the two countries and offered to do the best, including mediate or anything. “I will do the best I can to mediate or do something. (I have) great relationship with both of them, but they (India and Pakistan) are not exactly friends at this moment,” Trump said.

I especially like this line. :wink:

I welcome Frumps' offer to mediate between India and Bakistan to ensure that the LOC remains calm and without any attempt at infiltration for the next 2 years at least so that India can fully focus and implements it's plans for J&K. :rotfl:

Frump is a great guy .. a great friend of India. IF he is able to do the above I will personally recommend him for Bharat Ratna. Besides I will also recommend Dimran and Frump for the "no-ball" prize. Not Mudi mind you he is a waar monger!

KLNMurthy
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3827
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 13:06

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby KLNMurthy » 21 Aug 2019 10:50

Yagnasri wrote:Trump may not be too eager to involve himself. After all he is a business man and there is no profit or advantage to help a beggar nation link Pak at the cost of angering a very profitable relationship India. Having said that I am very sure the US SD establishment will press for it.

Right now, Trump is convinced that he needs the Pakis for help in getting his troops out of Afghanistan. He thinks Pakis have him at a negotiating disadvantage. He will pay the price, no matter how high. There is nothing in Trump's life history to suggest that he is all that good at negotiating when he feels he is at a disadvantage. (To be fair, few people are). Unfortunately, while he can give Pak $$$$ and military hardware, he can't give them what they really, really, want, namely a subdued India.

The only open question is how much moolah Pak can squeeze out of Trump--more accurately US taxpayers.

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11912
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby pankajs » 21 Aug 2019 11:08

^^
At the very least, Bakis need Indian decision on A.370/35A to be rolled back. Forget getting it rolled back, has the US admin spoken of the need for a rollback yet?
Failing that, at least they should have worked for a face saving official statement out of UNSC criticizing (Not asking for a rollback) the Indian move. Did they do that?
Failing that, they should at least have come out with a China like statement on the Indian move. Did anyone hear any such statement?
Failing that, they should at least have release an "off the record" / anonymous quote to say that US admin is unhappy with the Indian move. Did we read about any such?

All we heard at first was "US notes India has stated that it is an Internal matter" followed by the latest off the record "It is an Internal matter for India" and folks are unable to digest an US president flopping around.

Are we this insecure?

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 20023
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby chetak » 21 Aug 2019 11:42

pankajs wrote:
wig wrote:https://www.financialexpress.com/india-news/its-a-very-explosive-situation-donald-trump-again-offers-to-mediate-on-kashmir/1681520/

US pres will meet our PM at the G7 meet in France

I especially like this line. :wink:

I welcome Frumps' offer to mediate between India and Bakistan to ensure that the LOC remains calm and without any attempt at infiltration for the next 2 years at least so that India can fully focus and implements it's plans for J&K. :rotfl:

Frump is a great guy .. a great friend of India. IF he is able to do the above I will personally recommend him for Bharat Ratna. Besides I will also recommend Dimran and Frump for the "no-ball" prize. Not Mudi mind you he is a waar monger!

trump is trump's friend onlee.

the amerikis currently have shared interests in the region not only with us but with almost all surrounding countries and in their limited view, India is their best bet to squeeze, extract concessions and ultimately throw under the bus.

the hans, pakis, afghans and the iranians including the russians are not going to help out trump. and all of them don't really give a damn about "Hindu" India.


the US will never be a friend, at best it can only be a fellow traveler for very limited parts of our journey as our mutual interests partially align from time to time so as to enable the momentary and temporary shared travel itineraries.

trump is a bigger bania and a more obsessed control freak than even our Modi and so every time our mutual interests partially align as they do from time to time so as to enable the momentary and temporary shared travel itineraries, he will try and sell India useless weapon systems at great cost and extract commercial/trade concessions hugely benefitting to them.

Our mutual interests are now slowly starting to diverge because of the intricacies and complexities of afpak and the very different perceptions each has of the fallout thereof.

trump is sweating profusely because his testimonials are getting fried in afpak and he badly needs the perfidious pakis to extricate the said testimonials 'HONORABLY" and the pakis want cashmere in return to do the deal with him so the transactional trump thinks that he is going to make a deal with us to vacate said cashmere and hand it over to the pakis.

Incidentally, getting India to vacate cashmere has been a particularly desired wet dream of the amerikis for many decades now. They don't see junagadh and hyderabad and siachin as the pakis do because the consequences don't impact them.

had the mafia been in control, we would have lost cashmere by now.

whatever has been envisaged in this "deal" was known to the hurryrats, muftis, abdullahs and the like for quite some time and MAD have struck peremptorily to take the proposition off the table. jaishankar is also part of the team because he is best suited to manage the international ramifications.

banrjeer
BRFite
Posts: 230
Joined: 21 Dec 2008 14:39

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby banrjeer » 21 Aug 2019 11:45

https://www.wionews.com/world/indonesia ... ion-244505

As a thought exercise whose side would we be on in the above case the Indonesian side or Papuan side.

Let's remember that at one point Trump made a statement that India should do more in Afghanistan. So forget about even mediating they wanted India to step in Afghanistan ! They want out of this part of the world.

They have nothing of interest except making sure that Something unlikely like 9-11 does not happen again.... They don't care about gas pipelines anymore.

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 20023
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby chetak » 21 Aug 2019 12:02

Image

V_Raman
BRFite
Posts: 525
Joined: 04 Sep 2008 22:25

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby V_Raman » 21 Aug 2019 12:46

What if there is some kind of adverse ruling from ICJ? What are the chances? If yes, what is the impact?

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11912
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby pankajs » 21 Aug 2019 12:50

V_Raman wrote:What if there is some kind of adverse ruling from ICJ? What are the chances? If yes, what is the impact?

ICJ? What kind of an animal is that?

Sumeet
BRFite
Posts: 1437
Joined: 22 May 2002 11:31

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Sumeet » 21 Aug 2019 13:27

Who cares about them ? This is India's internal matter not subject to any foreign country/institution intervention.

Vikas
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6097
Joined: 03 Dec 2005 02:40
Location: Where DST doesn't bother me
Contact:

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Vikas » 21 Aug 2019 13:43

Pa_is have gone to ICJ so that India can reject ICJ interference and then they can hang KJ without any adverse reaction - Atleast that's what I think Bajawala is plotting. Some revenge they can extract !!!

PS: What are Papis going to complaint about ? That India has changed its constitution and altered the instrument of accession which By the way Papis themselves claimed was bogus and sham.

yensoy
BRFite
Posts: 1461
Joined: 29 May 2002 11:31
Location: USA

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby yensoy » 21 Aug 2019 14:07

In Bakistan you don't amend the constitution. You replace it with a new one.

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11912
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby pankajs » 21 Aug 2019 14:53

https://twitter.com/HamidMirPAK/status/ ... 6375784451
Hamid Mir @HamidMirPAK

Three former ambassadors Ashraf Jahangir Qazi,Abdul Basit and Shahid Malik agreed on a point that whole world must support armed resistance of Kashmiris because it is legitimate according to the international law
To which a honorary baki wrote
https://twitter.com/suhasinih/status/11 ... 9427251200
Suhasini Haidar @suhasinih

Quite outrageous for anyone in Pakistan to speak of "armed resistance", given the misery wreaked on Kashmiris for 3 decades. Hearing this from respected diplomats, even more shocking.

The real reason why this is "outrageous" and "shocking" for the honorary baki is not because of what was said but becuase that it was said so openly, recorded and put out on to the interweb to live for ever reminding the Indians of what the bakis really are at all levels.

Till date this honorary baki and other like her used to lull the gubile but sincerely peaceful Indians into sleep with rhetoric like "bakis are just like us", "want peace", etc and whitewash their many crimes.

Now with this video it will no longer possible to whitewash the baki crimes. These are not even jihadis nor ordinary folks talking amongst themselves at a chai adda. These are THREE former highly educated former diplomats who are talking of "armed resistance" with one of the top baki anchor on live TV! It further proves that every baki is a jihadi. The honorary baki is frustrated that the old rhetoric will no longer work with the internet generations with this video.

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11912
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby pankajs » 21 Aug 2019 17:17

pankajs wrote:I especially like this line. :wink:

I welcome Frumps' offer to mediate between India and Bakistan to ensure that the LOC remains calm and without any attempt at infiltration for the next 2 years at least so that India can fully focus and implements it's plans for J&K. :rotfl:

Frump is a great guy .. a great friend of India. IF he is able to do the above I will personally recommend him for Bharat Ratna. Besides I will also recommend Dimran and Frump for the "no-ball" prize. Not Mudi mind you he is a waar monger!

Given the outcome following Frump's last offer to mediate between India and bakistan, will the bakis celebrate this latest offer or will they smell another "sazis" by YYY. :rotfl:

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12479
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby UlanBatori » 21 Aug 2019 17:22

With all respect, I suggest that the "re-HiFi-nation" is happening partly because of ppl's khulji on this thread. This is **NOT**** the India-Terroristan thread. It is the JAMMU & KASHMIR UNION TERRITORY thread.

So what is happening in J&K?
Answer: **NOTHING*** :((

Look at the sad plight of the UQ Guardian:
Kashmir: suspected militant killed in Indian security operation
Incident is believed to be first clash with insurgents since revocation of special status


OK, they can't help lying, they are British. This is **NOT** the first clash with terrorists: that has been happening practically every day at the LOC. This appears to be the first time that terrorists managed to sneak far inside and THEN get pest-e-sha'eeded. IOW, cockroaches have always been trying to get into the house through the a/c vents etc, but this is the first time one got as far as the dining room before receiving the Heavenly Chappal Welcome (HCW).

The real news: SITUATION NAARMAL. Day 15 done. Restrictions relaxed in most areas **NOT** infested with terrorists.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12479
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby UlanBatori » 21 Aug 2019 17:25

So the Guardian went and found someone to open an aperture:
Kashmir police said a man who they said was affiliated with Lashkar-e-Taiba, a Pakistan-based militant group, was killed in an operation by security teams in Baramulla, northern Kashmir. One officer was also killed and another was receiving hospital treatment.
The suspected militant is not believed to have been a prominent figure in LeT, which is designated a terrorist organisation by the UN and has been blamed by the US and India for the Mumbai attacks in 2008, which killed more than 160 people.

Khalid Shah, an associate fellow at the Observer Research Foundation, an Indian-based thinktank, said it was unlikely officials would pursue high-profile militants as their deaths would risk attracting large funeral crowds. {?? Why not cremate the body and scatter the ashes in the nearest pakistan? If a policeman was killed and another wounded, it was clearly an ARMED terrorist not a "suspected militant"}

Clashes are common between Indian security forces and militants in Kashmir, where an insurgency has been fought against Indian rule for decades. However, such actions appeared to have halted after the revocation of Kashmir’s special status, and officials were focused on maintaining law and order by enforcing a strict curfew.

“For two weeks the government deliberately didn’t conduct any operations and now there is a clear indication that they want to have an aggressive security stance against the militant groups and to make sure they are on the defensive,” Shah said.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12479
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby UlanBatori » 21 Aug 2019 17:32

IOW, the spin now is that the violence is not occurring because of Indian polis inaction!!!
Same in Punjab after Khalistan, no doubt?

DharmaB
BRFite
Posts: 106
Joined: 23 Feb 2019 19:21

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby DharmaB » 21 Aug 2019 17:33

Rudradev wrote:
KLNMurthy wrote:What is fascinating is the entire mainstream US media, ideological spectrum ranging from Democracy Now! to NPF to fox & WSJ are of one voice on thos topic. There is not even the pretense of presenting both sides, not even, "we left a voicemail 2 minutes before air time with GOI but no one got back to us" kind of thing. Opinion pieces are one thing, but even news reports are openly one-sided. And none of the usual "watchdogs " of whatever political stripe, utters so much as a yip.
...


To me this suggests that their outrage is not on Pakistan's behalf at all. It is entirely their own. THEY saw J&K as an embryonic client state of their own, albeit enclosed for the time being within the amniotic sac of a "disputed territory". THEY have themselves been affronted (and thwarted) by the A370 abrogation. This makes them furious.

This rampant one-sidedness of coverage, with opinion masquerading as "news", is exactly how Khanland discourse sounds when a threat to its own interests is perceived. Be it Iraqi "WMD" or Assad's "chemical weapons strikes" or Chavez/Maduro's Venezuela or whatever. There's no question of balance at all.

Consider this. Khanland saw exactly two potential locales where it hoped to grab and retain a territorial foothold in the Asian heartland. One is Afghanistan. Which is the other?

All that's happened is that, while earlier GOIs let the delusion fester through mumbling inaction, the current GOI has openly told them "in your dreams".


When we talk about the policies of America, Russia, Europe etc. we tend to generalize the actions of those governments as the actions of those Nations. But IMO, behind them there are various factions (which change from time to time) involved with their vested interests and may be at most any larger than life agendas which govern their policies on world impacting matters such as arab spring, afg, iraq etc. Now the J&K has also for sure one such matter fallen into that club as a shock. It may be against those vested interests and hence all the noise. It may not represent the policy of their current government, but of the deep state which control the media, defense, economy, and other important aspects of state. It is evident form how much opposition Trump faces from his own media on his other policy issues. In a way Trump may be a lucky coincidence for NM to implement his JK plan.

While trying to rationalize the behavior of those govts and media, looking at them from the prism of our limited, local perspectives may not be sufficient to understand the big picture of the reality. It is mostly a guess work with many un-connected dots for us lesser mortals. If one has come across all the crazy stuff on different conspiracy theories about secret societies Illuminati, Freemasons etc. and their NWO agenda, it is very difficult to strike them away altogether as bogus. And it is also very difficult to believe or prove them as right since they run into a very unusual long periods of time into the history, for any one individual or society to keep track of their goals and pursue them in continuity.

Here is an excerpt from wiki...

Although skeptical of New World Order conspiracism, political scientist David Rothkopf argues, in the 2008 book Superclass: The Global Power Elite and the World They Are Making, that the world population of 6 billion people is governed by an elite of 6,000 individuals. Until the late 20th century, governments of the great powers provided most of the superclass, accompanied by a few heads of international movements (i.e., the Pope of the Catholic Church) and entrepreneurs (Rothschilds, Rockefellers). According to Rothkopf, in the early 21st century, economic clout—fueled by the explosive expansion of international trade, travel and communication—rules; the nation-state's power has diminished shrinking politicians to minority power broker status; leaders in international business, finance and the defense industry not only dominate the superclass, they move freely into high positions in their nations' governments and back to private life largely beyond the notice of elected legislatures (including the U.S. Congress), which remain abysmally ignorant of affairs beyond their borders. He asserts that the superclass' disproportionate influence over national policy is constructive but always self-interested, and that across the world, few object to corruption and oppressive governments provided they can do business in these countries.[92]

Viewing the history of the world as the history of warfare between secret societies, conspiracy theorists go further than Rothkopf, and other scholars who have studied the global power elite, by claiming that established upper-class families with "old money" who founded and finance the Bilderberg Group, Bohemian Club, Club of Rome, Council on Foreign Relations, Rhodes Trust, Skull and Bones, Trilateral Commission, and similar think tanks and private clubs, are illuminated conspirators plotting to impose a totalitarian New World Order—the implementation of an authoritarian world government controlled by the United Nations and a global central bank, which maintains political power through the financialization of the economy, regulation and restriction of speech through the concentration of media ownership, mass surveillance, widespread use of state terrorism, and an all-encompassing propaganda that creates a cult of personality around a puppet world leader and ideologizes world government as the culmination of history's progress


Return to “Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], morem, pattnayak, rakeshp and 36 guests