J&K Union Territory-2019

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chetak
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby chetak » 13 Sep 2019 01:32

KJo wrote:
Bart S wrote:We have enough on our hands right now. Nevertheless the POK statements are nice to keep the Pakis on edge and paranoid.

Actual recovery of POK can happen at a time of our choosing, after a gradual tightening of the screws over time. Slowly slowly catchee Paki!


Yes, this seems most likely to me, and I think it is a good strategy also. Keep up the leaks that GoI is looking to take back PoRK and it will keep the pakis scared. They know big bad Modi and Shah actually have the guts to pull it off if they wanted to unlike MMS. Turn the discussion from JK to PoRK which has not been done until now.


this is calculated psyops and the master play at this time.

This entire cashmere imbroglio is a searing hot and much debated topic on paki channels and press.

It is also the best time for the phata pyjama abduls to be rudely jolted and schooled about POK and India's claim on it.

There has always been a sneaking admiration for Modi among the paki awam who often wish that they had someone like him, a powerful leader who is honest, decisive and truly concerned for the country and the people, running the affairs of the paki state.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Manu » 13 Sep 2019 01:43

On the articles in the US Press. That is also courtesy https://www.hklaw.com/en

This is the Lobbying Firm that the Pakis have hired. What they have achieved:
(a) Farticles in the NYT and WaPo
(b) The "Curfew Clock" in the UN
(c) Reaching out to the Socialist minded Senators/Congressmen to "issue statements"

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby ramana » 13 Sep 2019 02:20

All those guys would have done for free as its their nature to scream about India.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Atmavik » 13 Sep 2019 03:57

here is an interview of Moosa Raza (former chief secretary of J&K) with burkha Dutt. this is an interesting interview and the former IAS looks like an SDRE.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qNnGNcxNg0

@ 15:20 he speaks about the kidnapping of Rubaiya Sayeed.

@ 25:00 speaks of the corruption under bakshi gulam md.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby UlanBatori » 13 Sep 2019 07:25


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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby g.sarkar » 13 Sep 2019 15:07

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... qIj1L.html
39 days after lockdown, restrictions lifted from Jammu and Kashmir
Since August 5, large sections of Srinagar and other cities have been barricaded with barbed wires, streets deserted and shops shuttered.

Sep 13, 2019
Restrictions on movement have been lifted from entire Jammu and Kashmir and landline phones restored, 39 days after the state was put under a security and communication lockdown on August 5 after constitutional provisions that gave the state special status and its permanent residents special privileges were removed and it was divided into two union territories.
“Restrictions lifted from all areas, traffic movement has increased manifold. Landlines fully functional, mobile phones considerably working in Kupwara and Handwara,” said Department of Information and Public Relations, Government of Jammu and Kashmir, reports ANI.
.....
Gautam

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby UlanBatori » 13 Sep 2019 17:16

Holding breath...

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby banrjeer » 13 Sep 2019 18:03

Atmavik wrote:here is an interview of Moosa Raza (former chief secretary of J&K) with burkha Dutt. this is an interesting interview and the former IAS looks like an SDRE.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qNnGNcxNg0

@ 15:20 he speaks about the kidnapping of Rubaiya Sayeed.

@ 25:00 speaks of the corruption under bakshi gulam md.


According to another account Hari Singh was ready with accession but Nehru dithered and put conditions on the release of Sheikh Abdullah before he would agree to such an accession. Giving some benefit of doubt to Nehru it was maybe because he needed the Sheikh for a potential plebiscite?

But he does seem like a short sighted man dithering man who did not learn from the rapid developments of direct action day and the formation of Pakistan. He also stopped Indian troops from retaking more parts of Kashmir.

He kept on giving and losing. Needs to be studied further.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Anujan » 14 Sep 2019 00:27

We can go round and round debating omissions and commissions. One of the reasons JN wanted Sheikh Abdullah's support, was because he wanted a "popular muslim" leader's endorsement for accession.

Signing and sealing the deal based on Hari Singh would have given Pakis an opening. Somewhat similar thing happened in Junagadh. Hindu majority state ruled by a Muslim. Shah Nawaz Bhutto played shenanigans with the ruler and made it accede to Pakistan (Shah Nawaz Bhutto was Zulfi Bhutto's father and Botox Bhutto's grandfather, the entire family is quite adept at scheming it seems). The population revolted, subsequent plebicite showed 91% support to India. Sure, JK is different with Jammu, but imagine what would have happened if the deed was done unilaterally with Hari Singh over a majority muslim population.

The biggest mistake was letting GB go & PoK go and going to the UN for ceasefire (dont get me started on the 370 fiasco). Even the ceasefire has some nuance: It was soon after the partition bloodshed and Pakis were preparing to attack across the international border in Punjab. Nobody knew how that would turn out. Plus British had divided loyalty with wheels within wheels and it was not clear how well the british would fight against the british.

Either we should have gone all out on "might is right" principle and annexed all the states or gone in the direction of "everyone gets to vote". We did neither. It was quite early days of India. Was not clear if democracy would survive, army would take over, British would meddle, constitution acceptable to all states could be written, states could be demarcated, ityadi....

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby A_Gupta » 14 Sep 2019 00:54

Anujan wrote: Even the ceasefire has some nuance: It was soon after the partition bloodshed and Pakis were preparing to attack across the international border in Punjab. Nobody knew how that would turn out. Plus British had divided loyalty with wheels within wheels and it was not clear how well the british would fight against the british.


Actually, per
Towards a Ceasefire in Kashmir: British Official Reports from South Asia, 18 September – 31 December 1948
edited by Lionel Carter

after Nov 15, 1948, India had positive momentum in taking back J&K. So much so that the Pakistanis denuded their Punjab defenses and were prepared to attack Indian supply lines at the most vulnerable points. Per the secret, official reports, the British were worried that India's riposte to such an attack would be to walk into West Punjab (kind of like what did happen in 1965). Then there would be general war, which the British wanted to avoid. Pakistan held back because British assurances that they would obtain a cease-fire. And the British exercised their influence mightily in India and obtained said cease-fire.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby ramana » 14 Sep 2019 01:43

GB had a revolt by a British major whose Muslim troops killed the Jammu Kashmir troops and raided Paki flag.
Later that British guy was given many honors by TSP and UK.
and Nehru offered ceasefire when Indian Army was preparing to take Skardu.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby UlanBatori » 14 Sep 2019 02:40

Day 39 over. Situation NAAAAAAAAAAARMAL.

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J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Peregrine » 14 Sep 2019 02:55

Understanding the Kashmir dispute

Shakil Chaudhary urges the prime minister to steer clear of emotional slogans

Relations between Pakistan and India are tense over Kashmir. Tensions between these two nuclear-capable countries scare decent human beings in both countries. I was heartened when on August 14, Prime Minister Imran Khan in a nationally televised speech said that he did not believe in wars and that he was a pacifist. I was also heartened when in November 2011, in an interview with CNN-IBN, he said his hatred of India disappeared after he had visited India to play cricket. In an admirable display of candour, he accepted the fact that one grows up hating India due to the bloodshed and violence associated with the Partition. “As time passed, I realised that there’s so much we have in common. We have similar history, there is so much in culture that is so similar compared to Western countries. Above all, there is so much the people of two countries can benefit from if we have a civilised relationship.”

At the time he said that if he came to power, he would do his utmost to improve relations between the two countries. He said he would work for better India-Pakistan relations because he had “received so much love in India.” He also said, “Absolutely, I have no prejudice against any country, and more specifically, India.”

He is not alone. Nearly all Pakistanis grow up hating India, but, unlike Imran Khan, they don’t get an opportunity to unlearn their prejudices. From an early age, Pakistani children are indoctrinated into believing that India is an eternal and cunning enemy because it is dominated by despicable and wily Hindus. Hating India has long been the litmus test of patriotism in Pakistan. The guiding principle of Pakistani historiography is: “Muslims are good guys, Hindus are bad guys.” Pakistani newspapers reinforce this message day in day out.

Here is an example. Nawa-i-Waqt wrote in its issue of February 22, 2004: “Our youngsters take Hindus for human beings because of their appearance. They have no idea that these human-looking creatures are, in fact, bloodthirsty beasts, dreadful crocodiles, dragons and cunning foxes.” The fondest wish of the editor of this newspaper was to be tied to a nuclear missile and get dropped on India (Nawa-i-Waqt, November 5, 2008).

Honestly, I was not so heartened when Imran Khan described Prime Minister Narendra Modi as a racist and fascist leader because of his association with the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS). Likening India to Nazi Germany, he called Modi a modern-day Hitler who was determined to subject Indian Muslims to a holocaust. World leaders don’t use such strong language against each other, least of all against a leader who has been elected twice. Fascist leaders are elected only once, if elected at all. Someone might ask him: Didn’t you know his background when you called on him in New Delhi on December 11, 2015? And why on April 9, 2019, during a meeting with senior journalists, did you pin all your hopes on his electoral victory for the resolution of the Kashmir issue? Asadullah Ghalib, a highly patriotic columnist, has written in Nawa-i-Waqt (August 31, 2019) that the anti-RSS narrative will not fly – at least internationally.

In his August 14, 2019 speech, the prime minister spoke highly of the two-nation theory (TNT). On one hand he declared that the RSS ideology was responsible for Gandhi’s murder, on the other he showered praise on Jinnah for pitting Muslims against Gandhi’s ideology of pluralism. On March 30, 1941, Jinnah had described the Congress as a purely Hindu and a fascist organization.

Khan calls himself a student of history. If he had read at least Pathway to Pakistan by Choudhry Khaliquzzaman, a founding father of Pakistan and the first president of the Pakistan Muslim League, he would not have talked in such a facile manner.

Khaliquzzaman writes: “The two-nation theory, which we had used in the fight for Pakistan, had created not only bad blood against the Muslims of the minority provinces, but also an ideological wedge, between them and the Hindus of India.”

He further writes that H.S. Suhrawardy, who later served as Pakistan’s prime minister, doubted the utility of the TNT, which to my mind also had never paid any dividends to us, but after the partition, it proved positively injurious to the Muslims of India. According to him, Jinnah bade farewell to it in his famous speech of August 11, 1947.

However, Sardar Masood Khan, the AJK president, has said that the Kashmiris want to join Pakistan on the basis of the TNT, which is founded on Islam (Dunya, July 10, 2019). Syed Ali Geelani, the most admired Kashmiri leader in Pakistan, has said: “It is as difficult for a Muslim to live in a non-Muslim society as it is for a fish to live in a desert.” He also said: “India has a secular system, which we can under no condition accept” (Outlook, October 28, 2010). This line of reasoning raises the question: If seven million Kashmiri Muslims cannot live in India, what about the 200 million Muslims who live in different parts of India?

Let me draw the attention of readers to some facts, which are not widely known in Pakistan. According to Lt. Col. (r) Sikandar Baloch, the biggest reason for Kashmir’s accession to India was the October 1947 invasion of Kashmir by tribesmen who engaged in indiscriminate loot and plunder (Nawa-i-Waqt, July 24, 2013). Even afterward, Sardar Patel, India’s deputy prime minister, offered to swap Kashmir for non-interference in Hyderabad Deccan, but Pakistan refused. In his memoirs, Sardar Shaukat Hayat, a leader of the Pakistan movement, says that Pakistani Prime Minister Liaqat Ali Khan’s response to this offer was: Am I mad enough to trade a big state like Hyderabad for a few hills of Kashmir? A.G. Noorani, one of the best experts on the Kashmir issue, has written in his magnum opus The Kashmir Dispute 1947-2012: “On November 1, 1947, Lord Mountbatten, India’s governor general, offered Jinnah plebiscite in all the three states: Kashmir, Junagardh, and Hyderabad, but he refused.”

There are many Pakistanis who argue that Modi wants to establish Akhand Bharat (reunited India) by undoing the 1947 partition. They need to be informed of the fact that in an interview with Nai Duniya (August 5, 2012), a Delhi-based weekly Urdu magazine, Modi unequivocally opposed the idea of Akhand Bharat, arguing that it would eventually turn India into a Muslim-majority state. I am happy with India’s current borders, he had said.

M.B. Naqvi, one of the most respected Pakistani journalists, wrote a highly enlightening article for Herald of July 1988. According to him, Pakistan exercised the last option to acquire Kashmir by going to war in 1965. “But while militarily the war was more or less a drawn match, politically it was a disaster. As a consequence of the war, Pakistan finally lost Kashmir.” He advised Pakistan to make friends with India and organize friendly cooperation with it in as many fields as possible. Unfortunately, this sane and sensible advice fell on deaf ears.

Asar Chauhan, a senior columnist, has written that immediately after assuming office as president of Pakistan, Asif Zardari had proposed freezing the Kashmir issue for 30 years (Nawa-i-Waqt, July 24, 2013). However, he couldn’t put this proposal into practice.

I would humbly request the prime minister to steer clear of emotional slogans. He needs to beware of those Kashmiri leaders who are pushing their followers into a head-on collision with the military. The last 30 years have proven that these leaders are not capable of achieving their goals. They have brought the Kashmiris into a dead-end street. They have no realization that militancy has inflicted incalculable harm on the Kashmiris. The hapless Kashmiris deserve better.

The writer is a journalist based in Islamabad and is the author of Handbook of Functional English (Ferozsons)
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby ramana » 14 Sep 2019 03:08

UlanBatori wrote:Day 39 over. Situation NAAAAAAAAAAARMAL.


Not a single bullet fired since 5 August.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby MurthyB » 14 Sep 2019 03:22

UlanBatori wrote:Pssssst! Small pooch.
"Pakistan, Cash More, Geneva, Hyooman Rites".

What is missing in this picture?
ANGANA CHATTERJI.
Any sightings? aka "Mary" cited by the Free Biscuits in the Federal Indictment of the Abdul G Whatzit of the CashMore Conference, who went to make chappatis for a couple of years as an Undeclared Pakistani Agint before being let out with an FBI mike up his musharraf.

Same for all the other "CashMore Researchers": Akhila Ra(h)man, Stalini Gera, Girish Agarwal? etc. All this ruckus about CashMore and these piglets are not out there at the trough?


Giritings birader! AoA! She has been spotted being very generous (a full $50 for cashmere phreedom!) only:

Image
https://imgur.com/lVsPpY3

BTW, this "news freedom initiative" was launched by this vicious turd babaglocal back on august 15 for that other set of turds headed by some suchitra vijayan of project polis or some such and nearly a month later the tukde tukdes have mustered up a grand total of two hajjar, of which 500 was extorted from some sanghi who send lascivious messages to a lol salaam motorhama.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby jash_p » 14 Sep 2019 04:19

Imran said in todays Jalsha that when he will come back from UNGA meeting on 27 september then I will tell you that time cross the LOC. It means POK citizen will try to cross LOC Will Indian army fire at them? if yes then kill many civilian can that will create big International crisis?

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby UlanBatori » 14 Sep 2019 05:17

They tried that b4 in 1999, and now again last week. Both times JKLF (no public comment please) turned it into a Kashmir Banega Azad which ended with the PA shooting at them. "Crossing the LOC" may be very prescient: the "CashMore Leaders" when released from the Rat-Ville Towers where they are now enjoying Govt. hospitality along with hundreds of genuine rats, will probably have no other place where they are welcome.
Also, given Gen. Rawat's statement (very strange for an Indian GOC-in-C to make any such statement!) I have a feeling IA has been told to treat the LOC like Ulan Bator drivers treat red lights: as a suggestion, not a rule.

My comment on Gen. Rawat's statement is that it may have been calculated to induce some serious "use it or lose it" sentiments in Pindi/Isloo HQ. If they sit quiet all their Karachi and LaHore real estate titles that are now given to PA senior jarnails, will evaporate. If OTOH they can get those places bombed by India they can collect insurance maybe and settle in Bilayat and Los Angeles like Ayub and Yahya did and Musharraf is doing.

So there is a high likelihood of another attack across Chaamb-Jaurian or wherever their favored places are. NH-1 is probably out since the Kargil misadventure though that is also likely.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby UlanBatori » 14 Sep 2019 05:27

But today much more likely is IMO a "decapitation strike". Not to give them ideas but how can India retaliate? Take out the political netas of Pakistan? :rotfl: PA would probably provide the precise target coordinates with their best wishes.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby NRao » 14 Sep 2019 06:46

jash_p wrote:Imran said in todays Jalsha that when he will come back from UNGA meeting on 27 september then I will tell you that time cross the LOC. It means POK citizen will try to cross LOC Will Indian army fire at them? if yes then kill many civilian can that will create big International crisis?


The last time that happened - granted in a way diff way - a Niazi lost the East. One cannot compare the two outside of the human burden placed on India.

If this Niazi wants to lose the West it just may make Amit Shah's and Gen. Rawat's decision relatively easy, both being on record what their goals are.

Will not be pretty, but Hit Wicket Imran may lay the foundation for giving peace a chance and making BR immortal.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Atmavik » 14 Sep 2019 06:53

POK residents greet Imran with Go Niazi Go chants.

https://twitter.com/arifaajakia/status/ ... 1313285126

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby g.sarkar » 14 Sep 2019 14:29

https://theprint.in/opinion/the-factivi ... on/290832/
Modi has finished Pakistan’s ‘unfinished business’ of Partition
Article 370 is gone, now it’s time to fight the good fight — for rights of Kashmiris as fellow Indians and restoration of commerce & political activity in J&K.
SHEKHAR GUPTA Updated: 13 September, 2019
Here is a somewhat different way of looking at Jammu and Kashmir today.
One side in the conflict had used one description for the Kashmir issue for 70 years, as if it was cast in a Pir Panjal rock: It is the unfinished business of Partition.
That side was Pakistan.
India never agreed. Not even by way of emphasising its claim on Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK). India’s view was, Partition ended in 1947. We have moved on, so should you. It wasn’t stated, but unambiguously implied.
Pakistan disagreed. In the decade of the 1950s, it waited to strengthen its armed forces by joining US-led military pacts. That achieved, in the 1960s, it launched a full-fledged military campaign to take Kashmir by force to settle that “unfinished business”, but failed.
It spent the 1970s recuperating from defeat and the dismemberment of 1971. Zulfikar Ali Bhutto turned its attention westwards, towards Islamic countries, especially the Arabs, and sought solace in the Ummah. The “unfinished business” wasn’t forgotten. The Pakistani establishment was biding its time. The time came in the late 1980s. By 1989-90, Pakistan believed it now had a proven strategy. It was the one used to defeat the Soviets in Afghanistan. It also had the nuclear umbrella. The asymmetric war launched in Kashmir at that time is now in its 30th year.
In the 1990s, it waned (after P.V. Narasimha Rao crushed the insurgency). It rose again with pan-Islamisation of the insurgency as foreign mujahideen surfaced. The intrusion in Kargil was the next gambit. That failed because of India’s resolute response and Pakistan’s non-existent international leverage.
After Musharraf’s coup in 1999, the insurgency was fully revived, now manned entirely by Pakistani jihadis. As it peaked, the Vajpayee government accepted a Pakistani overture for a summit. But the imperious manner in which Musharraf conducted himself at Agra shocked even an incorrigible peacenik like former prime minister I.K. Gujral. He said Musharraf was behaving as if he was visiting a “defeated country”.
The Agra summit failed. Pakistan’s global leverage also returned soon with 9/11. From being an expendable old ally-turned-nuisance, Pakistan emerged as a “stalwart ally” (Bush’s description) yet again. Bloodshed in Kashmir peaked. You want to know how strong Pakistan’s hold on the Americans was in this year? When Kashmir’s first suicide bomber blew up its state assembly, then Secretary of State Colin Powell infamously described it as an attack on an Indian government “facility”. The attack on Parliament, a near-war following it, and then the long peace process with Musharraf during the tenures of Vajpayee and Manmohan Singh are relatively recent history. Regrettably, the Pakistani establishment was again only buying time. Keeping pace with all the peacemaking efforts was pro-active asymmetric warfare. India was hit with something big the moment the ISI calculated India had had “too long” a period of respite. There were many train bombings, attacks here and there in mainland India (besides routinely in Kashmir) and then the Mumbai massacres of 2008.
The pattern continued in the following decade. Every thaw was followed by a kick in India’s shin. Gurdaspur, Pathankot, Pulwama, keep counting.
India responded in a variety of ways: From counter-insurgency in Kashmir, a localised fight back (Kargil), coercive diplomacy (after the Parliament attack) and strategic restraint (26/11). The initiative was always with Pakistan. For 70 years, Pakistan had brainwashed itself into believing that if it kept bleeding India, India would one day give in.
.....
Gautam
Not really. PM Modi's business is unfinished. India has to get back POK and the Sikh holy sites. On the way it will break up Pak into smaller manageable pieces a la Bangla Desh.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby g.sarkar » 14 Sep 2019 15:14

https://www.indiatoday.in/mail-today/st ... 2019-09-12
1990 IAF personnel killing case: Yasin Malik's trial resumes in Jammu
After a delay of almost 3 decades, the trial of Yasin Malik in 1990 Indian Air Force personnel killing case resumed on Wednesday at the TADA court in Jammu.

Sunil Bhat, Jammu, September 12, 2019
HIGHLIGHTS
The TADA court resumed the trial of Yasin Malik in IAF personnel killing case
The judge issued a fresh production warrant to Malik
Yasin Malik is currently lodged in Delhi's Tihar jail

The law finally seems to be catching up with former terror commander and JKLF chief Yasin Malik in 1990 Indian Air Force personnel killing case.
After a delay of almost 3 decades, the trial resumed on Wednesday at the TADA (Terrorism & antidisruptive act) court in Jammu. But Malik who is currently lodged in Delhi's Tihar jail in terror funding case wasn't produced before the TADA court. The judge issued a fresh production warrant to Malik and asked the Tihar jail authorities to produce the former terror commander in the court on the next date of hearing on October 1.
Speaking to India Today, special public prosecutor in the case Pavitar Singh Bhardwaj expressed hope that the cases against Yasin Malik will now be taken to logical conclusion. He added that there was no political will on part of successive governments earlier to bring Yasin Malik to justice. "The accused used delaying tactics to stall the trial in last 29 years. The government also failed to provide adequate security to TADA court's Presiding Officers. Yasin Malik was also enjoying political patronage. All these factors stalled the trial," said Pavitar Singh Bhardwaj.
.....
Gautam

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J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Peregrine » 14 Sep 2019 15:32

X Posted on the Terroristan Thread

Going to ICJ on IOK not possible: Farogh Naseem - Saqib Virk

ISLAMABAD: Federal Law Minister Farogh Naseem has said the Kashmir issue cannot be taken to the International Court of Justice (ICJ) – as the government had earlier hinted – because Pakistan and India have not signed any agreement in this regard.

After India’s August, 5 illegal move to strip the Occupied Kashmir (IOK) of its special status, Prime Minister Imran Khan had hinted at taking the Kashmir issue to the ICJ.

Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi had also announced formally during his talk with senior journalists at the Foreign Office that Pakistan will take the issue to the ICJ. However, after that there has been a complete silence on part of the government on the issue.

The Express Tribune asked Farogh Naseem as to why Pakistan has not approached the ICJ. Is Pakistan still in the process of consultations or there is any legal hindrance? Is there any way that the Kashmir issue can be solved sans interference of the United Nations (UN)?

“A single party cannot go to the ICJ directly unless both the parties agree. However, the United Nations Security Council (UNSC) or the General Assembly (UNGA) can refer the issue to the ICJ. And they can refer the case to the ICJ as an issue of human rights violations,” Naseem said

The minister claimed that legally Pakistan is no way on the back foot in case of Kashmir. “The way prime minister raised the issue has made the world support us,” he said.

To a question about the legal and political options available to Pakistan, the law minister said the UN also has political courts. “The issue will be further raised in UNSC and UNGA. We hope that the amount of hard work put in by the ministries of law and foreign affairs will make it a success,” he said.

Elaborating on strengths of the case, he said the UNSC has its resolutions on Kashmir issue and India is not accepting them. India has committed many human rights violations including use of pallet guns and now Pakistan has a strong case.

“We are just saying that Kashmiris should be given right to self-determination in accordance to the UN resolutions. India has been violating human rights in Kashmir for decades.

He said India is no longer a secular country. “It is India of RSS [Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh]. India’s unconstitutional step is a test case for the Indian Supreme Court as its judgment will show how much independent Indian judiciary is.

Prime Minister Azad Kashmir Raja Farooq Haider Khan told The Express Tribune that his government had decided to go to the ICJ but it was not possible until the other party agrees. “Consultations are under way on this issue in the Kashmir committee. [b]It is a sensitive issue and we would not act in haste.”

Jamaat-e-Islami chief Senator Sirajul Haq was also asked to comment on the situation. He said the government had promised to go to the ICJ but now it is taking U-turn. “This government thinks that taking U-turns is a specialisation. We should not expect much from this government,” he added.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby mmasand » 14 Sep 2019 17:23

Some rather bojiteeve newj from Muzaffarabad. Kashmiris chanting Go Niazi Go yesterday.

https://twitter.com/MirchandaniYana/sta ... 79234?s=09

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby UlanBatori » 14 Sep 2019 19:03



chetak
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby chetak » 15 Sep 2019 12:31

twitter


You can bet your last Pakistani rupee that ⁦@nytimes⁩, ⁦@guardian⁩ & ⁦@BBC⁩ won’t report this.


Image

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Narad » 15 Sep 2019 12:45

No news of youm-e-jumma ul rundi rona-e-cashmere celebration this week? :(

chetak
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby chetak » 15 Sep 2019 13:14

this is more true of cashmeri muslims than anyone else

twitter


I love India--when u get down from an intln flight and enter our Airports --u r welcomed by massive "Duty Free " boards--Country where only rights flourish and no need for any duties.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Deans » 15 Sep 2019 13:29

chetak wrote:twitter


You can bet your last Pakistani rupee that ⁦@nytimes⁩, ⁦@guardian⁩ & ⁦@BBC⁩ won’t report this.


Image


I'm even willing to bet an Indian Rupee.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Dileep » 15 Sep 2019 13:50

All these talk about taking PORK back is to give the Pakis an exit route, something similar to the Yuck Chager argument of "Pak won 1971 war because Yindia didn't take Isloo onlee". We keep the "Get PORK" stance active long enough to let that be the new status quo, and let the Pakis claim victory because we "failed to achieve that objective".

Jingo mind notwithstanding, this yindoo bania don't want his tax money wasted to take back the cancer that was once surgically removed.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Karthik S » 15 Sep 2019 14:12

Dileep wrote:this yindoo bania don't want his tax money wasted to take back the cancer that was once surgically removed.


Aren't you a steak loving mallu?
BTW PoK will provide direct access to Afghanistan and beyond. I know the terrain is very treacherous, but let L&T guys worry about that. Right now we are dependent on Iran route to gain access to central Asia. Getting back PoK will reduce our dependency on Iran.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Supratik » 15 Sep 2019 15:09

The geo-political position is right. Pak economy tanking, Trump not pro-Islamist and China facing serious economic issues with the trade war.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Supratik » 15 Sep 2019 15:11

Even a month long naval siege and no-fly-zone will capitulate Pak. That is how desperate the situation is for Pak.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Rsatchi » 15 Sep 2019 16:09

https://twitter.com/DostKhan_Jammu/stat ... 31168?s=20
‘Slave of pissbeuponhim’ wants to hand J&K joint control to TSP :eek:
Need to ask Mafia Queen if she approved his verbal diarrhoea :twisted:

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Dileep » 15 Sep 2019 20:24

Karthik S wrote:
Dileep wrote:this yindoo bania don't want his tax money wasted to take back the cancer that was once surgically removed.


Aren't you a steak loving mallu?
BTW PoK will provide direct access to Afghanistan and beyond. I know the terrain is very treacherous, but let L&T guys worry about that. Right now we are dependent on Iran route to gain access to central Asia. Getting back PoK will reduce our dependency on Iran.


Mallu by nativity, Steak lover by food choice, Bania by economics onlee saar. Many more such attributes too.

What I feel is, any amount of geopolitical benefit ain't worth for the trouble of handling the p**s

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby SBajwa » 15 Sep 2019 21:09

https://www.telegraphindia.com/opinion/ ... id/1027015

I am beholden to P.V. Rawal of Jammu for sending me a photograph of Allama Iqbal’s Kashmiri Brahmin family taken in Sialkot in 1931. At this time Iqbal was in his mid-fifties. He had already risen to the top as the greatest Urdu poet, at par with Mirza Asadullah Khan Ghalib. Although he was proud of his Brahmin descent, he had nothing to say about his Hindu relations. In this picture, the elderly lady seated in the middle is his grandmother, Indirani Sapru, nicknamed Poshi, wife of Pandit Kanhaya Lal Sapru. The man standing on the left in a shawl is Iqbal’s cousin, Amarnath Sapru; note the close resemblance to the poet.

The family traces its origin to one Birbal. They lived in the village of Saprain (hence, the surname Sapru) on Shopian-Kulgam road. Then the family moved to Srinagar where Iqbal and most of his cousins were born. Birbal had five sons and a daughter. The third one, Kanhaya Lal, and his wife, Indirani, had three sons and five daughters. Kanhaya Lal was Iqbal’s grandfather. His son, Rattan Lal, converted to Islam and was given the name Nur Mohammad. He married a Muslim woman — Imam Bibi. The Saprus disowned Rattan Lal and severed all connections with him. There are different versions of Rattan Lal’s conversion. The one given to me by Syeda Hameed, who has translated some of Iqbal’s poetry into English, maintains that Rattan Lal was the revenue collector of the Afghan governor of Kashmir. He was caught embezzling money. The governor offered him a choice: he should either convert to Islam or be hanged. Rattan Lal chose to stay alive. When the Afghan governor fled from Kashmir to escape its takeover by the Sikhs, Rattan Lal migrated to Sialkot. Imam Bibi was evidently a Sialkoti Punjabi. Iqbal was born in Sialkot on November 9, 1877. As often happens, the first generation of converts are more kattar than others. Iqbal thus grew up to be a devout Muslim. It is believed that once he called on his Hindu grandmother, then living in Amritsar. But there is no hard evidence of their meeting and of what passed between them; Iqbal did not write about it. Though he had many Hindu and Sikh friends and admirers, he felt that the future of Indian Muslims lay in having a separate state of their own. Iqbal was the principal ideologue of what later become Pakistan. Iqbal’s mother-tongue was Punjabi but he never wrote in it. He used only Persian and Urdu, as did many Urdu poets before him.

There are many aspects of Iqbal’s personal life which have not been fully researched by his biographers. We know he married two or three times and that his favourite son was Javed, who became a judge of the Lahore high court. Iqbal’s affair with Atia Faizi of Bombay when they met in London is well-known. There must have been some correspondence between them to show the kind of relationship they had. When in Heidelberg, he was taken up by his young German tutor, Emma Veganast. This secret was divulged by the mayor of Heidelberg in a speech in which he named a part of the bank of the river Neckar after him — Iqbal Weg. The Pakistani ambassador to Germany had the mayor’s speech mentioning the girl’s name suppressed. Iqbal and Emma continued to write to each other till the end of his life. The correspondence should be available in archives in Lahore and Heidelberg. Lovers of Iqbal, among whom I count myself, deserve to be presented with a fuller picture of their idol. We have biographies of Rabindranath Tagore revealing all his love affairs but none of the Allama telling us of the kind of man he was.

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Cleansing the system

A couple of lines by Guru Nanak which I often recite to myself to preserve my mental balance run as follows:

Haumain deerag rog hai

Daaroo bhee iss maahen

Ego is a foul disease

Its cure also lies in itself.

I agree with every word of the Guru’s advice. Egoism or self-esteem is a disease like cancer. If not nipped in the bud, it infects other parts of the body and ultimately makes a person a deadly bore who loves talking about himself and wants others to praise him. Every one of us is prone to catch it and must evolve his own methods of fighting it.

Since I get more than my share of flattery from men and women who want me to write about them in my columns, I have to battle against them in different ways. Most tell me how they have read everything I have written and how much they liked it. I know it is not true; so I try to put it out of my mind. Others lay it on thick, that is, makkhan lagoing, when they come to see me. I do my best to change the subject. Despite that some of it sticks because later I find I am pleased with myself. I have found a more effective antidote: it is to make fun of myself. I narrate incidents in which I have made an ass of myself. I did that so many times. Everyone has a hearty laugh at my expense and thinks I must be the kind of fool I make out myself to be. It has a cathartic effect. It purges a lot of ego-poison out of my system.

Try out this purgative

Recently, I had to undergo an endoscopy to clear or confirm cancer in my belly. Needless to say, I wanted everyone to show concern for my health. It is another form of feeding one’s ego. As I had calculated, I got exaggerated shows of affection for me. After it was over, I felt I should restore my ego-balance to its earlier level. I wrote about it in lurid detail. Since I had to use a lot of indelicate vocabulary, which I feared publishers of my columns would find unacceptable, I sent the copy to Vinod Mehta, editor of Outlook. He is the only man I know who would understand what I wanted to say without censuring how I said it. In that piece I have written in detail about the humiliation and loss of esteem an endoscopy entails. Writing about it did cleanse my system of the false notions I had about myself. I felt much better.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby CRamS » 15 Sep 2019 22:17

Rsatchi wrote:https://twitter.com/DostKhan_Jammu/status/1172938125905031168?s=20
‘Slave of pissbeuponhim’ wants to hand J&K joint control to TSP :eek:
Need to ask Mafia Queen if she approved his verbal diarrhoea :twisted:


Guys, I have told you guys this aeons ago. The 'solution' if you want to call it that, in the eyes of Pappu slaves and assorted Hindu hating 'intellectuals' is 'joint sovereignty'. This is also the plan of the colonial gangsters in collusion with Indian traitors, both NRI and RNIs. So basically, TSP is holding on till they can achieve this. Only BJP/ModiJi stand between this sell out.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Philip » 16 Sep 2019 08:10

British Bullshit Corp. about to telecast a news report ," Kashmir in ferment" right now.We should kick out the BBC from India ek thum! Their perverted pro- Paki propaganda is nauseating in the extreme and riddled with deliberate inaccuracies. Why are there no reports about demos in POK? B* stards. As a first, Beeb bullshitters should be picked up from J&K and sent to Tihar for a welcome holiday.Then they can "Quit India", like their erstwhile forbears with extreme prejudice.Look how Iran have arrested their spies masquerading as teachers, etc.Does Russia tolerate western media bullshit?

The Chins are taking a cue from BRF! I've said for years that we should use colour dyes on Kashmiri quisling stonethrowers, to identify them and pick them up later.
Finally, the Chins are doing just that, spraying the Hong Kong demonstrators with a blue dye to pick them up later.
Our dynamic HM should work on this asap.After picking them up, incarcerate them in special "resorts" in the Pokharan desert ,preferably close to our firing ranges!

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby chetak » 16 Sep 2019 08:40

a whatsapp forward.



Now, Ex-Foreign Secretary Sends letter to New York Times, demolishes Imran Khan’s slanderous op-ed


Dear Mr Baquet and Mr Bennett,




I have seen Pakistan Prime Minister Imran Khan’s Op-Ed in your paper (August 30). That NYT should publish such a slanderous propaganda piece that not only distorts facts but even manufactures threm does not reflect well on standards that you apply when accepting to publish opinion pieces by foreign leaders. It does not seem normal by any yardstick that any serious publication should lend its columns to one foreign leader to attack another country and its leader with such malice. The NYT or any publication with an international reputation should not, I believe, allow itself to be used as a propaganda tool by one country against another. When a foreign leader is invited to state his position on issues of concern to his country, it should be made sure, in my view, that he does so in a measured and dignified manner and not use the opportunity given to him to vilify the leader of a third country. The NYT has failed in this regard.




What is Imran Khan’s credibility in denouncing Bharat and PM Modi the way he has? He has been put in position by the Pakistani military, which explains his allergy to barbs within Pakistan that he is a “selected” Prime Minister. This contrasts with Modi’s election as Prime Minister through the largest democratic exercise ever in human history, with a voting electorate of over 600 million, virtually two times the entire population of the United States.




It is the same Imran Khan who has put in prison all the major leaders of opposition – former Prime Ministers and Presidents included. He is the one who, with his refrain in Urdu that he who was a friend of Bharat was a traitor, castigated Nawaz Sharif for reaching out to Bharat. And today he vaunts his own offers of peace to Bharat.




NYT would recall that Imran Khan was called ‘Taliban Khan’ because of his support for the Taliban and opposition to US/NATO operations in Afghanistan. He supported the extremist Islamic organisation Tehreek-e-Labaik to blockade Islamabad in a bid to bring down Nawaz Sharif.

His Islamist leanings are apparent from his speeches in which he repeatedly evokes his obsessive vision of creating a welfare state in Pakistan, not a modern welfare state based on contemporary values of democratic, liberal societies, but one based on Mohammed’s fourteen centuries old Medina model. How is this different in essence to what the Islamic State and other extremist Islamic organisations advocate for Muslim countries- a reversion to the golden age of Islam of Mohammed’s era marked by justice, equality and the Sharia to overcome the political, economic and social problems they face today. Please think about this.

Imran Khan’s so-called peaceful overtures to Bharat have been accompanied from day one by a call to resolve the Kashmir issue as a pre-condition. He talks about Bharat and Pakistan needing to address shared problems of poverty as a priority, but makes any step towards normalisation of relations, including in trade, dependent on a resolution of the Kashmir problem.




He does not spell out the solution, except to call for self-determination for the people of Kashmir as per the UN resolutions. For one, in adopting this position he violates the 1972 Simla Agreement which stipulates clearly that the issue will be decided bilaterally by Bharat and Pakistan alone. Even if, theoretically, the UN resolutions were to be the basis, Pakistan has violated them by not withdrawing its irregular and regular forces from Jammu and Kashmir (J&K) as a pre-requisite before other steps could be taken to hold a plebiscite. Please look at these resolutions.




It is important to underline also that the UN resolutions were not based on Article 1 of the UN Charter and do not make any allusion to self-determination – the word is mentioned nowhere in the texts. The consent of Bharat and Pakistan to hold a plebiscite was only to decide the issue of J&K’s accession either to Bharat and Pakistan, with no third choice- that of independence- that any true exercise of self-determination under the UN Charter would have involved.

Bharat and Pakistan have discussed the Kashmir issue numerous times since independence, with attempts also at mediation by the UN and third countries. Since the mid-1990s the two countries have had a structured dialogue, including on Kashmir. Both sides are fully aware of each other’s position.

Imran Khan should be asked in his new avatar as a peace-maker what fresh ideas he has to propose to break the impasse. As things are, Pakistan is in illegal occupation of large parts of the erstwhile State of Jammu and Kashmir (J&K) that acceded to Bharat in its entirety. Pakistan has gained enormously geo-politically from this occupation, as it now has contiguity with China and Bharat has no contiguity with Afghanistan.




Imagine a situation in which Pakistan had no land link with China – the whole geo-politics of the sub-continent would have been different. What more does Pakistan want? More Bharatiya territory on the basis that what it has illegally occupied belongs to it, but what Bharat possesses legally must also be shared with Pakistan? Pakistan behaves as if the Kashmiris are Pakistani citizens and that Pakistan is responsible for them. J&K is a composite state like other Bharatiya states, with people belonging to Muslim, Hindu and Buddhist faiths. Pakistan’s concern is sectarian, as it is limited to the Muslims. The whole of Bharat with 180 million Muslims has almost as many Muslims as Pakistan has.




Bharat does not accept any right of Pakistan to speak on behalf of the Muslims of Kashmir, or the Muslims of Bharat. Pakistan maintains that Kashmir is an unfinished agenda of Bharat’s partition, which means that its objective is to divide Bharat once again on religious grounds, with all the horrors that the first partition produced.




The NYT editors should contrast Bharat’s treatment of the Muslims of Kashmir with China’s treatment of Tibetans and the Muslim Uighurs next door. Bharat has not interfered in the religious practices of Muslims in J&K, destroyed their religious sites, brought about demographic changes, or imposed a language on them that is not their own.. It hasn’t done ideology-based social engineering as China is doing in Sinkiang.Bharat has not incarcerated a million Muslims in re-education camps as the Chinese have done. Pakistan’s attitude towards the Uighurs is mercenary as it is dictated by its economic dependence on China. Imran Khan recently supported China’s treatment of the Uighur Muslims in the Human Rights Council at Geneva. His Muslim solidarity is selective.




Imran Khan is raising the issue of human rights violations in J&K and shedding tears over curfew in Kashmir and cutting off communications there. He should be careful in taking this propaganda line. He is the leader of a country that has used its air force and heavy weaponry against its own Muslims in South and North Waziristan, internally displaced a million of its own citizens to facilitate military operations.

Pakistan has used heavy artillery to kill Baloch leaders. Its blasphemy laws terrorise its minorities. The jihadi organisations that populate its territory such as the Sipahi-e-Sahiba kill Shias, attack Christian churches and Sufi mosques. The Lashkar-e-Taiba and Jaish-e-Mohammed have been declared international terrorist organisations by the relevant UN Security council committee.




The United States and France, amongst others, have declared the PoJK (Pakistan occupied Jammu & Kashmir) based Hizbul Mujaheddin as a terrorist organisation. Bharat, by contrast, does not have a domestic version of jihadi organisations perpetrating terrorism in Pakistan; it is not using its air force or heavy weaponry against its own population. It has not displaced a million Kashmiris from their villages.




On the contrary, Muslim extremists chased out about 450,000 indigenous Kashmiri Hindus from Kashmir in 1990 with threats of violence against them, in an act of ethnic cleansing. The Bharatiya authorities have dealt with the Kashmir problem fuelled by a foreign power with great restraint because democracies act differently than military dominated states like Pakistan.




For Bharat, Pakistani state sponsored terrorism is a core issue and unless Pakistan ends this, the basis of any productive dialogue does not exist. The Bharat-Pakistan dialogue has broken down periodically because of major terrorist attacks against Bharat sponsored by Pakistani agencies.

Imran Khan claims he seeks a dialogue but is unwilling to acknowledge that jihadi terrorism is an issue that he needs to address. His line is that Pakistan is not involved in terrorism against Bharat, that Pakistan itself is a victim of terrorism, that Bharat must provide proof, and that Bharat unnecessarily blames Pakistan for home-grown terrorism in Kashmir provoked by the human rights violations of Kashmiris by Bharat’s repressive policies.

How does this denial square up with actual acts of terror sourced to Pakistan, the most reprehensible being the attack on Bharat’s parliament in 2001 and in Mumbai in 2008 that killed 166 people. Bharat has suffered other attacks in and outside Kashmir over the years. The list is long and includes cities, religious, scientific, economic and military targets in J&K and across Bharat.




Even the U.S. is exhorting Pakistan to end cross-border terrorism against Bharat. To build deniability, Pakistan has, over the years, also developed local assets in Kashmir to commit acts of terror so that it can purvey the argument that it is not involved. Does this mean that the eruption of Al Qaida and Islamic State elements in various Muslim countries has nothing to do with the core custodians of this ideology that spread their message across the Ummah and obtain receptive recruits?




Imran Khan’s protestation of innocence on the issue of terrorism is spurious. Pakistan has provided safe havens to the Taliban leadership while denying its presence on its soil. It sheltered Osama bin Laden for years near its military cantonment. It has refused to act against the Haqqani group despite American prodding. The Afghan Taliban and the Haqqani group have killed thousands of American/NATO soldiers in Afghanistan. The former U.S. Chairman of the Joints Chiefs of Staff, in a testimony to the U.S. Congress, called the Haqqani group an extension of Pakistan’s ISI.




During his recent visit to the United States, Imran Khan admitted that Pakistan had 30,000 to 40,000 militants on its soil who had fought in Afghanistan and Kashmir. The NYT editors could well have asked him where they have disappeared before publishing his diatribe against Bharat. If Pakistani agencies have been complicit in Taliban/ Haqqani group terrorist attacks in Afghanistan when Pakistan has no religious differences or territorial claims on Afghanistan, to think that it is not deeply involved in terrorism against Bharat in pursuance of both religious and territorial objectives is to deny reality.




If Imran Khan was genuine about making peace with Bharat he should have gone beyond statements of intent and taken some concrete steps on the ground. He could have tried and punished those responsible for the 2008 Mumbai terrorist carnage in which six Americans were also killed. He could have put away Hafiz Saeed for good, particularly as he has a $ 10 million U.S. bounty on his head.




He could have done the same with regard to Jaish-e-Mohammed chief Masood Azhar responsible, amongst others, for the Pathankot and Pulwama attacks. Instead, Pakistan worked with China for years to prevent his designation as an international terrorist by the UN, until it became untenable for China to do so.

Imran Khan could have repatriated Kulbhushan Jadhav after the adverse judgment of the International Court of Justice against Pakistan. If Pakistan is not guilty of promoting infiltration of terrorists into J&K, it could alert Bharat’s agencies about possible infiltration attempts so that they could be prevented by Bharatiya security forces. This would conform to counter-terrorism cooperation between civilised states.




In short, Imran Khan could show his sincerity by taking credible and irreversible steps to curb the jihadi groups in Pakistan targeting Bharat.

Some of Imran Khan’s key advisers have been applauding his peace talk as a calculated strategy to contrast him as a peace maker with Modi-led Bharat’s intransigence. His Foreign Minister Qureshi has referred to the Kartarpur Corridor as a “googly”. One of Pakistan’s retired generals has said the other day on Pakistan TV that the Kartarpur Corridor is intended to promote the Khalistan movement. Qureshi has made the astonishing statement that Pakistan is ready for a dialogue with Bharat provided Bharat reverses its decision on Article 370, releases the detained Kashmiri leaders and allows him to meet them. This non-seriousness shows the reality of Imran Khan’s bogus pretensions about seeking dialogue and peace with Bharat.

Under cover of its nuclear capability Pakistan has been promoting terrorism in Bharat with a sense of impunity. Bharat has been hesitant to retaliate because of escalation concerns, until 2016 when Bharat conducted limited surgical strikes against terrorist camps across the Line of Control and in 2019 struck at Balakot in the Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa province of Pakistan after the Pulwama suicide attack that the UN Security Council too condemned.




No other Pakistani leader has spoken so frequently about a nuclear stand-off with Bharat, threatening Bharat implicitly with use of nuclear weapons, as Imran Khan. Pakistan, unlike Bharat, does not subscribe to a No-First-Use(NFU) nuclear posture. It is in this background, to deter Imran Khan’s adventurism and loose talk about nuclear weapons that the Bharatiya Defense Minister has stated that no change is envisaged in Bharat’s NFU policy, but that any change will depend on future developments. Imran Khan is going to town on this, including in his Op-Ed in your paper, ignoring his own nuclear transgressions that, regrettably, have been overlooked by the U.S. all along.




Imran Khan is behaving as if Pakistan was sparing Bharat terrorist mayhem because of the existence of Article 370 of the Bharatiya Constitution. In actual fact, right from 1989 Pakistan has sponsored terrorist attacks against Bharat even when this Article was in force. Not only that, this article was no insurance against Pakistan’s aggression against J&K in 1965, in 1971 and in 1999 in Kargil. What is then the value and relevance of Imran Khan’s argument that the nullifying of Article 370 is a provocative new step that will invite violence? He is, in fact, openly instigating violence in J&K with his statements as and when the current restrictions there are progressively lifted.

Much is being made by Imran Khan about the change in status quo in J&K. Bharat has made it clear that the change in the constitutional status of J&K within the Bharatiya Union does not change Bharat’s present external borders or affects the Line of Control with Pakistan in J&K and the Line of Actual Control with China in Ladakh.

In fact, Pakistan and China have collaborated to change the status quo in J&K much more materially. In 1963, Pakistan ceded the Shaksgam Valley of Pakistan occupied J&K (PoJK) to China. China then constructed the Karakoram Highway through PoJK. Pakistan has changed


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