J&K Union Territory-2019

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
sudeepj
BRFite
Posts: 1698
Joined: 27 Nov 2008 11:25

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby sudeepj » 01 Oct 2019 22:36

Can Indians be just stone throwers? Thats how we come across when we talk of 'black listing rutgers'. There is an old marwari saying, 'zor kamti, gussa ghana' - injurious to health. i.e. No strength and much anger is injurious to health.

Tucchi is a nutcase. But she is a very skilled nutcase. For the most part, she dances just on the other side of what will be considered racist and declared a foul by the culture gatekeepers. To 'get' people like this needs some sustained work to define the standard anew, document the transgressions over a period of time, build up a case and then no platforming a few people. Rest will learn the lesson and use the new 'guard rails' for their scholarship and activism.

But doing all this is really hard work. So yeah.. "HURR DURR... LETS BLACK LIST RUTGERS.. WE ARE BIG CONSUMERS OF THEIR EDUCATION.. THEY MUST DO EXACTLY WHAT WE DEMAND".

Its great that someone has taken the initiative to set up a petition and listed the Rutgers complaints number. But what are we going to complain about? That she called Modi or Hindutva fascist? When a very large percentage of Humanities professors are calling Trump and the republicans fascists, why would the university find this objectionable? The nearest thing that can count as hate speech would be her abusing Lord Rama, but even here, there are people (such as Christine Fair) who are abusive towards Christianity, so what exactly is the complaint? She will easily make this a free speech thing and come out as a free speech champion against ill prepared 'Fascist Hindus'.

These things are not a game. These culture fights are for your self perception.. How your children will think about their heritage.. Whether they become mindless drones serving their ideology or they become defenders of their own traditions and narrative. Tuchhis of the world are well prepared to play completely underhanded/dishonest games. Saam, daam, dand, bhed. Our side is so unprepared, that its rather funny in a dark sort of way.

schinnas
BRFite
Posts: 1443
Joined: 11 Jun 2009 09:44

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby schinnas » 01 Oct 2019 23:03

Sudeepj, what you say used to be true but not anymore. Things have changed and US univ admins have learned to take note of cultural sensitivies especially when it could impact their financial standing.

For example, no academic scholar bad mouths China now and US humanities departments have literally stopped speaking bad about Chinese HR violations, etc. There were even some article about it as Chinese account for a large portion of full out of state tuition paying students and research scholars whose monetary contributions sustain US universities and university administrators are petrified of stopping the gravy train and the erring academics are quietly told to behave. For Rutgers, it is true of Indian students.

While some Hindu organizations in US should do what you suggest, Indian govt shouldn't shy away from subtly exerting its hard power. The whole thing can be silently orchestrated with deniability. All it takes is for Indian banks to reduce the student loans given to those going to Rutgers. No externally talked about "blacklist" is actually needed. That was to just drive home to point.

sudeepj
BRFite
Posts: 1698
Joined: 27 Nov 2008 11:25

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby sudeepj » 01 Oct 2019 23:38

US univ admins have learned to take note of cultural sensitivies especially when it could impact their financial standing.


This has happened more with Australian universities than in the US. Rutgers is a pretty big university and a blatant/open push using financial incentives is simply not going to work.

As for cultural sensitivities, the sensitivity towards these came from organized, on the ground political strength from the various 'African Studies/AfAm studies/Hispanic/Native American studies' departments. Not from the number of students harboring a general feeling of disgust towards the goings-on. For Indians, this is uniquely challenging because Marxists who dominate these 'studies' departments are uniformly hostile towards Hindus and Indians.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13060
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby UlanBatori » 02 Oct 2019 00:19

Back in 2004 $4B Emory University had to come down a few pegs despite claiming Academic Phreedom for its child p0rnography vendor "Limp Phaullus" Courtwrong. Its just a question of whether the Indian/Hindu community has people with spine. Clearly in NJ the answer is "Do they?" if not "yawn".

I do not see why a university admin would get up in the morning (or evening, given their presumed habits) and say:
Bubble bubble toil and trouble
Whom shall I biss off needlessly today?


I do not see any compelling interest for any US university to dump on India. But they keep doing it because there is no consequence. One example, and a good amount of deterrence will be achieved. This is how the J***** community won some protection for their rights - not by any Mass Movement, but by carefully targeted monetary and eventually, legal pressure.

The univ admins may not like Indians or Hindus but they all like money, so money is the only language they understand.

Vayutuvan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10253
Joined: 20 Jun 2011 04:36

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Vayutuvan » 02 Oct 2019 00:56

sudeepj wrote:There is an old marwari saying, 'zor kamti, gussa ghana' - injurious to health. i.e. No strength and much anger is injurious to health.


In Telugu, there is an equivelnt saying pEdavaaNi kOpam pedaviki chETu - A poor/weak man's anger is causes injury to his lip.

But we - the well educated, well-heeled NRIs and Indians alike - are neither poor nor weak.

sudeepj wrote:She will easily make this a free speech thing and come out as a free speech champion against ill prepared 'Fascist Hindus'.


Bingo. The whole point of "The Tenure System" is to protect researchers from retribution the church can wreak on them AKA "prevent a recurrence of incidents like the burning of Giordano Bruno and incarceration of Galileo"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giordano_Bruno

Starting in 1593, Bruno was tried for heresy by the Roman Inquisition on charges of denial of several core Catholic doctrines, including eternal damnation, the Trinity, the divinity of Christ, the virginity of Mary, and transubstantiation. Bruno's pantheism was also a matter of grave concern,[5] as was his teaching of the transmigration of the soul. The Inquisition found him guilty, and he was burned at the stake in Rome's Campo de' Fiori in 1600. After his death, he gained considerable fame, being particularly celebrated by 19th- and early 20th-century commentators who regarded him as a martyr for science,[6] although historians agree that his heresy trial was not a response to his astronomical views but rather a response to his philosophical and religious views.[7][8][9][10][11] Bruno's case is still considered a landmark in the history of free thought and the emerging sciences.[12][13]


That is the exact problem we will run into when countering the likes of Prof. Wendy Doniger (who is tenured, meaning it is well niegh impossible to get her fired) and the tenure track Asst. Prof. Truschke
Last edited by Vayutuvan on 02 Oct 2019 05:12, edited 2 times in total.

Anujan
Forum Moderator
Posts: 6944
Joined: 27 May 2007 03:55

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Anujan » 02 Oct 2019 01:00

Kugelman is like ESPN trying to drive excitement into a boring game one side has scored 100 and the other side does not know which side the goal is:

Announcer 1: Its happening Jim!! The losing side appears to have gotten its stride, there is still 10 minutes on the clock anything could happen!!!
Announcer 2: Yes dave!! If the losing side manage to score 101, they will surely win this game!!!
Announcer 1: Look at the captain of the losing side!! He is adjusting his shoe, is rubbing his hands together, he means business!!
Announcer 2: Yes dave!! He does not look happy, there is a glint of anger and determination in his face. Anything can happen now. What an exciting game!!

This whole ESPN-ifying boring news is what drives viewership to pundits in cable news. Now think tankers in social media have learned the lesson too.

Pakistan's economy is in Pakistan. They have no international support. Talks with Taliban is going badly, Donald Duck is caught without his chaddi on in an internal political crisis. Cheen has Xingjiang and Hong kong. Saudi's got their oil field bombed and is ready to invest 100B$ in India. The four fathers are otherwise busy or occupied. Nobody cares.

Dimran is going to get his lamp-post soon as soon as Pakistan's dekhonomoney goes a bit more into Pakistan.

Nobody cares. There is no excitement in this game. Ignore Kugleman.

Amber G.
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6721
Joined: 17 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Amber G. » 02 Oct 2019 01:22

....countering the likes of Prof. Wendy Doniger

Don't know if people here know it but Prof Audrey Truschke' is "offspring (academically)" of two of the most Hinduphobic American "academicians" - Sheldon Pollock and Wendy Doniger. Both of these "scholars" have been thoroughly exposed as bigots... And like her profs, Truschke has also done quite a vulgar/crude "scholarly" interpretation" of Ramayana - about lust of Laxman for Sita and such other things. They come from the same mold .. she might have stayed under radar but looks like she is making name for herself as a bigot.

Also, okay she may (or may not) get tenured but do stupid schools and other idiots and politicians in India have to invite her for lectures? (She has been visiting some Indian Schools in past and gave public lectures..Some (IIRC Hyderabad was one place which booted her out after people complained - and the story made TOI or some other newspaper).

BTW, per her tweet: " #Aurangzeb: The Life and Legacy of India's Most Controversial King is now available i...Yes. Published by Oxford University Press-Karachi as "Aurangzeb: The Man and The Myth."

Vayutuvan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10253
Joined: 20 Jun 2011 04:36

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Vayutuvan » 02 Oct 2019 01:57

Amber G. wrote:Also, okay she may (or may not) get tenured but do stupid schools and other idiots and politicians in India have to invite her for lectures?


"I have seen the enemy - it is us" - Somebody (I don't remember the name)
Something like this ---

Pogo said, in a parody of U.S. Navy Commodore Oliver Hazard Perry's famous message to General William Henry Harrison in 1813 ("We have met the enemy and they are ours"), "We have met the enemy and he is us."

Peregrine
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8177
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Peregrine » 02 Oct 2019 02:15

X Posted on the Terroristan Thread

India's stand clear on Kashmir, won't accept third party mediation: Jaishankar – PTI

HIGHLIGHTS

- "India has been clear for 40 odd years that we would not accept mediation... and that whatever has to be discussed has to be discussed bilaterally,"

- US President Donald Trump in the recent past has offered mediation between India and Pakistan on the Kashmir issue


WASHINGTON: Categorically rejecting any scope for third party mediation between India and Pakistan on Kashmir, external affairs minister S Jaishankar has said India's stand has been clear for decades and the two countries can discuss the
issue bilaterally.

Jaishankar arrived here on Sunday night from New York after attending the annual General Assembly session of the United Nations along with Prime Minister Narendra Modi.

On the sidelines of the UN General Assembly session, the two leaders held bilateral meetings with dozens of world leaders.

"India has been clear for 40 odd years that we would not accept mediation... and that whatever has to be discussed has to be discussed bilaterally," Jaishankar told a group of Indian reporters on Tuesday when asked about US President Donald
Trump's mediation remarks on Kashmir.

Trump in the recent past has offered mediationbetween India and Pakistan on the Kashmir issue

"I'm clear in my mind as far as I'm concerned. That's what it's about. My point is very simple. Whose issue (is this?). Mine. Who has to take the call? Me. If it is my issue and I have to take the call; I will decide whether I want somebody's
mediation or not. You can offer anything you like, but if I decide it is not relevant to me then it does not happen," Jaishankar said.

"I am very clear in my mind. When people speak of it has gone up and down, where has it gone up and down? India has been very clear about it," he said when asked about the frequent offer of mediation by President Trump.

The External Affairs Minister said in half of his meetings on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly session, the issue of recent developments in Jammu and Kashmir popped up.

"In terms of (issue of) Article 370, I would find it hard to quantify, but I would say may be in about half my meetings it came up and may be in half of my meetings it didn't come up. It wasn't that every guy who came to me came with that burning question," he said.

Frankly, most of them were focused on the bilateral relations, he said, adding that even those who raised it, it was not necessarily the first issue of interest to them.

"I think in the case of people who showed interest, it was more like, we have read about developments on Kashmir and it would be useful for us to hear from you," he said.

Jaishankar said he apprised the leaders about what was happening and why it was happening in Kashmir.

The External Affairs Minister said that in many cases a lot of what he said was new to them.

"When you explain to them that Article 370 was temporary, when you tell them that it was part of the Constitution of India in which delegates from Jammu and Kashmir also took part, when you tell them that there was a provision within the
Article for the modification which took place, and you explain to them that today major source of concern was the fact that Jammu and Kashmir is really not aligned with the rest of India on a whole set of issues and so therefore, how do you really
run a country where one large state is misaligned with rest of the country.

"It's a very basic governance issue which people have ducked in the past. But because they ducked in the past doesn't mean that everybody keeps ducking in the future. I think, once you walked them (world leaders) through this, most of them
understood it and got it," he said.

When specifically asked about the position of two countries – Malaysia andTurkey – on Kashmir, the minister said "obviously they have been given an understanding which clearly is very different from the facts on the ground".

Prime Minister Modi and Jaishankar's meeting came against the backdrop of the Indian government revoking the special status to Jammu and Kashmir and bifurcating the state into two Union Territories on August 5

Tensions between India and Pakistan spiked after India abrogated provisions of Article 370 of the Constitution, evoking strong reactions from Pakistan.

India has categorically told the international community that the scrapping of Article 370 was an internal matter and also advised Pakistan to accept the reality.

CheersImage

Amber G.
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6721
Joined: 17 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Amber G. » 02 Oct 2019 02:25

Vayutuvan wrote:

But we - the well educated, well-heeled NRIs and Indians alike - are neither poor nor weak.


It should not prevent, for those who think it is serious, to file a formal complaint -- actually a formal complaint has been filed and Office of Employment Equity, University Human Resources are looking for more "evidence" and investigating this.. More evidence has been submitted there. She is feeling some heat. (Hate speech is not protected, especially spoken outside the classrooms/academic environment)

rahulm
BRFite
Posts: 1126
Joined: 19 Jun 2000 11:31

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby rahulm » 02 Oct 2019 03:18

INDIAN-OCCUPIED KASHMIR: A NEW AMERICAN DILEMMA

A vitriolic attack by Motorham Qanta Ahmed. While Ahmed is a Brit Paki what’s up with Jerusalem Post for publishing this under its mast head ?

She seems to be a defender of Israel and is touted as a ‘Islam reformist ‘.

My friends in israel are telling me there is anti India stuff in relation to JK even on TV.

Rudradev
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3510
Joined: 06 Apr 2003 12:31

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Rudradev » 02 Oct 2019 03:52

Amber G. wrote:
Also, okay she may (or may not) get tenured but do stupid schools and other idiots and politicians in India have to invite her for lectures? (She has been visiting some Indian Schools in past and gave public lectures..Some (IIRC Hyderabad was one place which booted her out after people complained - and the story made TOI or some other newspaper).

"


This is precisely the point.

Audrey Truschke does not have tenure. She is an "Assistant Professor" of South Asian History.

If you've spent any time with US academics you would know that Tenure is everything for them. It's the difference between a life of comfort and security vs. a life of wandering from one low-paying job to another, dealing with thankless undergraduate classes and grading endless papers without knowing if your position will be renewed the next semester. Especially true in the Social Sciences and Humanities where merit really doesn't count for much anyway, and student enrollment figures continue to dwindle year after year.

So this is how China does it. You are an Adjunct/Associate/Assistant Professor of China Studies? Well, congratulations! Now it would seem that your entire career arc is pretty well founded on your ability to research and write about China, no? Of course, you are an academic in these Great United States, and "academic freedom" is important.

But it would be a shame if something adversely, permanently impacted your ability to visit, research, and gain access to primary sources of information about your chosen field of study... no? Especially in this competitive environment where many others would like that chance at achieving tenure.

This is the one weapon we have. GOI needs to be firmly on board, of course. But if GOI effectively bans her from entering the geographical space which she claims is her "area of expertise", while at the same time we (on the ground) continue to expose her as an intellectually dishonest broker who dispenses Islamist and Hinduphobic propaganda at Pakistan's behest... goodbye tenure. At Rutgers or anywhere else.

Rishirishi
BRFite
Posts: 1109
Joined: 12 Mar 2005 02:30

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Rishirishi » 02 Oct 2019 03:53

I have been following Dawn (TSP newspaper)

Initially they have massive reports daily on the front page. Gradually this has come down to less and less. So far very good media management.

The question; is this strategy working? Seems like it is so far.

3 golden rules

1 Lockdown of communications.
2 Tight control on movement.
3 Purge the ones who are creating trouble.

But this will have to be maintained at least for 2-3 years, before people finally come to terms.

nachiket
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7226
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 10:49

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby nachiket » 02 Oct 2019 04:03

Rudradev wrote: But it would be a shame if something adversely, permanently impacted your ability to visit, research, and gain access to primary sources of information about your chosen field of study... no? Especially in this competitive environment where many others would like that chance at achieving tenure.

This is the one weapon we have. GOI needs to be firmly on board, of course. But if GOI effectively bans her from entering the geographical space which she claims is her "area of expertise", while at the same time we (on the ground) continue to expose her as an intellectually dishonest broker who dispenses Islamist and Hinduphobic propaganda at Pakistan's behest... goodbye tenure. At Rutgers or anywhere else.

I am afraid this might have the exact opposite effect of what you intend. Real scholarship and research counts for very little in the cesspool of American humanities academia when it comes to researching "heathen" cultures as evidenced by the likes of Pollock and Doniger. Any implicit or explicit ban on Trushke by the GOI will only enhance her stature in this group of lowlives and hasten her tenure.

Rudradev
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3510
Joined: 06 Apr 2003 12:31

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Rudradev » 02 Oct 2019 04:04

Nachiket ji, you should read Rajiv Malhotra on this topic. China uses this technique regularly and it has exactly the type of result I specified.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13060
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby UlanBatori » 02 Oct 2019 04:06

Vayutuvan wrote:Bruno etc

I don't want to insult anyone, but please read what I wrote about Emory University, and kindly do some research so that you don't get me banned. That was 2004. CE. I think that was after Bruno etc.

If u think tenured profs can't be hurt, :rotfl:
Univ. Admins are carefully selected on criteria VERY similar to those used by the National Socialists of 1930s Germany, used to select the Youth version (HJ). Then they are sent to a special Indoctrination Camp. HJ Tests included :
Shoot Your Pet Dog As It Sits Up To Beg. Arrest Your GrandParents And Dump Them In the Truck To the Concentration Camp.
That is nothing compared to what they train univ. admins to do.

Then they put them in a pit with assorted vipers, anacondas, cobras etc. Those that come out happy and patting their tummies after eating those get appointed as Associate Deans, Deans, Provosts, Associate Provosts, Assistant to Associate Provosts etc. Sometimes it's the vipers that come out: those get appointed HR Experts and School Chairs and Associate Chairs.
They HATE tenured faculty, just as much as the HJ hated the Jarnails of the Wehrmacht. And look what happened to those Jarnails.

nachiket
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7226
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 10:49

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby nachiket » 02 Oct 2019 04:12

Rudradev wrote:Nachiket ji, you should read Rajiv Malhotra on this topic. China uses this technique regularly and it has exactly the type of result I specified.

Please, no ji for me. I will read what RM has to say on this topic. As of now I am skeptical of this approach. China's situation is different because of their absolute state control over the narrative and discourse within. They don't have a huge internal fifth column of cultural marxists (quite ironic considering they are a commie country :lol:) unlike our pseudo-lib brigade who will vehemently support Trushke et al in her anti-Hindu tirades and propaganda. Besides there are plenty of people outside China writing and speaking against them including academics I'm sure, but no one inside China will ever hear them or see what they write.

Vayutuvan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10253
Joined: 20 Jun 2011 04:36

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Vayutuvan » 02 Oct 2019 05:21

UlanBatori wrote:I don't want to insult anyone, but please read what I wrote about Emory University, and kindly do some research so that you don't get me banned. That was 2004. CE. I think that was after Bruno etc.


Saar, I am well aware of your sixth cousin twice removed's taking down of Courtwright/Nussbaum/Doniger and assorted ***** peddlers. That said, it does require certain amount of time and standing in the acdemic community like Tenure to pull that off without suffering financially or career-wise. My oiint is that not all have the same luxury as your zixth cuzzin and Rajiv Malhotra have. Also there is the question of intellect. I. most assuredly, am not at the same level as the aforementioned intellectual kshatriya.

CRamS
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6505
Joined: 07 Oct 2006 20:54
Contact:

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby CRamS » 02 Oct 2019 06:08

rahulm wrote:INDIAN-OCCUPIED KASHMIR: A NEW AMERICAN DILEMMA

A vitriolic attack by Motorham Qanta Ahmed. While Ahmed is a Brit Paki what’s up with Jerusalem Post for publishing this under its mast head ?

She seems to be a defender of Israel and is touted as a ‘Islam reformist ‘.

My friends in israel are telling me there is anti India stuff in relation to JK even on TV.


She is in the mold of Ayaan Hirsi Ali saying all the wonderful things that goras love to hear from a 'moderate' Muslim, except that she is a shudh TSP RAPE. In other words, while Ayaan has ideologically transformed herself away from Islam, this chic is a Jihadi to the core like all Paki RAPE except that she shows her Jihadi prowess only against India. This makes her quite dangerous.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13060
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby UlanBatori » 02 Oct 2019 06:33

Vayutuvan wrote:
UlanBatori wrote:I don't want to insult anyone, but please read what I wrote about Emory University, and kindly do some research so that you don't get me banned. That was 2004. CE. I think that was after Bruno etc.


does require certain amount of time and standing in the acdemic community like Tenure to pull that off without suffering financially or career-wise. .


Sorry wrong on all 3 counts. (a) It just needs lack of sense, clear aim and steady hands. (b) No, there is no protection IF one uses the protection etc. (c) Yes, there is retaliation of the sort described under "vipers" above.
Incidentally, said 6th coujin's article is referenced in at least one MS Thesis from Florida. Pls kindly google "Protestant Pedagogues Peeved At Protests Against P)rn Peddling". I guess that makes it a Beer-Reviewed Bublication and counts in the Citation Index per madarssa tradition. :rotfl:
Predictably the slimeball mentioned the profession etc of 6th coujin, presumably to hurt said coujin. They always do that. A Paki long ago quoted E6C saying "HINDU professor" etc. E6C never uses/used any mention of affiliation/religion/profession. For good reason.
The only protection is the Rite 2 Free Sbeech enshrined in the Mongolian Constitution/ Bill of Rites.
Also my point is that tenure does **NOT** protect anyone today in the age of SocMedia mobs. There is no "doo brojej". See above re: Hitler Jugend/ kangaroo courts. Courtwrong was not fired, nor did the Conjarned Citjens demand anything of the sort. The Dept. Chair was removed from under his butt, the whole Department was scrapped and merged into something else. Years later when Su Swamy went there and poked them about their Born Beddling, they said: "PLEASE Don't bring that up, it was traumatic". :mrgreen: Effective, obviously.
Same or worse can befall this Audrey trash. All we want is for Rutgers faculty to quit being liars/biased. That is an eminently fair request to make of a university.

NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16405
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby NRao » 02 Oct 2019 08:26


VikramA
BRFite
Posts: 168
Joined: 29 Aug 2018 15:41

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby VikramA » 02 Oct 2019 08:34

^^^ the amount of nonsense these people are able to regurgitate is truly awe inspiring. It's like these old dinosaurs live in the 90s when their words went unchallenged and thus became the dominant narrative. Truly delusional lot

schinnas
BRFite
Posts: 1443
Joined: 11 Jun 2009 09:44

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby schinnas » 02 Oct 2019 12:21

Audrey is not yet tenured and indulges in hateful attacks on Hindus. She calling Lord Ram as misogynistic pig on Twitter is a classic case that makes Hindu Rutgers students unwelcome and has no place in an educational institutions.

If Su Swamy could be booted out of Harvard for something lot less hateful, why can't Audrey. I don't buy these excuses. Just Indian student and staff community in Rutgers itself should be enough to boot out Audrey who isn't tenured.

Kashi
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3610
Joined: 06 May 2011 13:53

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Kashi » 02 Oct 2019 12:53

schinnas wrote:Just Indian student and staff community in Rutgers itself should be enough to boot out Audrey who isn't tenured.


Do you believe they care?

schinnas
BRFite
Posts: 1443
Joined: 11 Jun 2009 09:44

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby schinnas » 02 Oct 2019 13:23

They can be made to care. There are enough patriotic students at Rutgers .

Even otherwise, a very silent (so she cannot claim martyrship) and totally deniable shadow ban on student loans to Rutgers will do the trick. Word can be spread that Indians are avoiding Rutgers thanks to virulent anti Hindu and anti India atmosphere created by people like Audrey with ISI connections.

If there is a will, there is a way.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13060
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby UlanBatori » 02 Oct 2019 17:20

Another Paki report from the Associated Pakis (AP)
The sum total is that some Paki terrorist sympathizers agitated briefly in Kargil before seeing the wisdom of not throwing stones.
Please retain the name for future tabulation. Several obviously biased statements there - like that the Northern Flight Infantry was "locals".


CRamS
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6505
Joined: 07 Oct 2006 20:54
Contact:

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby CRamS » 02 Oct 2019 20:40

NRao, that Wajaat dude is another bloody slime ball who hides his contempt for India under the guise of smooth constitutional talk.

I lost complete respect for him, when while spending time in some US think tank, he recommended that US increase military aid and F-solas to TSP to assuage their 'insecurity' visa vi India. Translated into Jihadis speak, this means arm TSP so it can 'liberate' Muslim dominate Kashmir and integrate with the land of pure.

That bloody zero-IQ Jythi can't ask some tough questions because she herself is a ModiJI/BJP hater.

And WTF does he mean by KMs must be made to feel they are Indian by rest of India. We have to bend down on our knees and beg them? And what is their obligation? Throw stones and Indian army? Give aid and succor to Paki pigLeTs? Abuse India in international fora and newspapers? Thats how you build rapprochement? First and foremost, KMs must give up their religious, ethnic, racial superiority complex over us SDREs and want to live like everybody else. Of course, they can be turned around but for TSP.

This brings me to our erudite EAM saying development in J&K will be key

https://www.financialexpress.com/india- ... r/1724034/


Once growth starts in Jammu and Kashmir, Pakistan’s 70 year’s plans will collapse: S Jaishankar



But sir, as an ordinary bloke, I want to understand from you on what is India's game-plan to deal with the crux of the issue: TSP? Is the gentle EAM telling us that as India pours money, manpower, and goodwill to earn the trust and love and respect of KMs, TSP and its Islamist proxies in the valley are going to sit by and watch?

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12424
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby pankajs » 02 Oct 2019 20:45

cross post
--
Everyone know that the pressure on Dimran and TSPA is increasing by the day AND everyone is trying to impress upon them to pull back from the brink. Bakis BUT don't have much choice before their apduls

https://twitter.com/sidhant/status/1179315531016544256
Sidhant Sibal @sidhant

Pakistan has to "keep a lid on militant groups" says Assistant Secretary of Defense for Indo Pacific Security Affairs, Randall Shriver which "might conduct cross-border activities as a result of the Kashmir decisions"

sivab
BRFite
Posts: 935
Joined: 22 Feb 2006 07:56

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby sivab » 02 Oct 2019 20:49

https://www.aninews.in/news/world/asia/ ... 002151205/

Saudi Arabia endorses Indias actions in Kashmir

Saudi Arabia has told India that it understands "India's approach and actions in Jammu and Kashmir".The Saudi stance on the issue was conveyed to India in a two-hour meeting between National Security Advisor Ajit Doval and Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman in Riyadh on Wednesday, sources told ANI. Highly placed sources said a wide range of issues were discussed on various aspects of bilateral relations in the meeting between Doval and the Saudi crown prince. "The issue of Jammu and Kashmir also figured in the discussion which Saudi crown Prince expressed understanding about India's approach and actions in Jammu and Kashmir," they said.

KLNMurthy
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3879
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 13:06

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby KLNMurthy » 02 Oct 2019 20:58

nachiket wrote:
Rudradev wrote:Nachiket ji, you should read Rajiv Malhotra on this topic. China uses this technique regularly and it has exactly the type of result I specified.

Please, no ji for me. I will read what RM has to say on this topic. As of now I am skeptical of this approach. China's situation is different because of their absolute state control over the narrative and discourse within. They don't have a huge internal fifth column of cultural marxists (quite ironic considering they are a commie country :lol:) unlike our pseudo-lib brigade who will vehemently support Trushke et al in her anti-Hindu tirades and propaganda. Besides there are plenty of people outside China writing and speaking against them including academics I'm sure, but no one inside China will ever hear them or see what they write.


Indian government has lots of control over universities. Both formal / legal and informal. They exercise it all the time. It is a question of choosing to exercise it in favor of an Indian POV.

We keep talking about having spine, ecosystems, levers of power etc. But the basic problem is that we don't have convictions. It takes years of motivated self-study for an average Hindu to even overcome the indoctrinated belief that Hinduism is not a sound and reasonable way to view, and act in, the world. What we receive during formative years is a mixed bag--just learning cultural and religious practices on a pro forma basis, questions and doubts being shut down or mumbled past, etc. Some institutions have done good work in this area in recent times, but mostly the generation that makes decisions today is unconvinced that Hinduism is any good.

The most that you get is, "other religions have bad stuff, so we don't want Hinduism to be treated worse than them." This is so-called right wing Hindu extremist position. But even they want Hindus to see themselves as good guys, which means they can't really fight Christian / Islamic imperialism, and their "academically free" agents, because tolerance is a good thing--maybe the only good thing in Hinduism--and academic freedom is sacred.

This is the nature of the mountain that has to be moved.

titash
BRFite
Posts: 359
Joined: 26 Aug 2011 18:44

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby titash » 02 Oct 2019 20:59

CRamS wrote:NRao, that Wajaat dude is another bloody slime ball who hides his contempt for India under the guise of smooth constitutional talk.

I lost complete respect for him, when while spending time in some US think tank, he recommended that US increase military aid and F-solas to TSP to assuage their 'insecurity' visa vi India. Translated into Jihadis speak, this means arm TSP so it can 'liberate' Muslim dominate Kashmir and integrate with the land of pure.

That bloody zero-IQ Jythi can't ask some tough questions because she herself is a ModiJI/BJP hater.

And WTF does he mean by KMs must be made to feel they are Indian by rest of India. We have to bend down on our knees and beg them? And what is their obligation? Throw stones and Indian army? Give aid and succor to Paki pigLeTs? Abuse India in international fora and newspapers? Thats how you build rapprochement? First and foremost, KMs must give up their religious, ethnic, racial superiority complex over us SDREs and want to live like everybody else. Of course, they can be turned around but for TSP.

This brings me to our erudite EAM saying development in J&K will be key

https://www.financialexpress.com/india- ... r/1724034/


Once growth starts in Jammu and Kashmir, Pakistan’s 70 year’s plans will collapse: S Jaishankar



But sir, as an ordinary bloke, I want to understand from you on what is India's game-plan to deal with the crux of the issue: TSP? Is the gentle EAM telling us that as India pours money, manpower, and goodwill to earn the trust and love and respect of KMs, TSP and its Islamist proxies in the valley are going to sit by and watch?


No Sirjee - it means we are very willing to indulge in realpolitik and doublespeak.

Hard Truths:
1) A large number of KMs are not very patriotic to put it mildly
2) A large number of KMs are malsi extremists and would love to live in an independent (malsi republic) Cashmore
3) A large number of KMs actively participated or aided & abetted the ethic cleansing of KHs. They have done the crime but haven't done the time
4) There are only 2 hindu nations in the world with 2 UN votes and there are 50+ muslim nations with 50+ UN votes and seats on HRC committees

So what should we do?
1) Keep emphasizing that malsi is ROP, secular, and inclusive; that KMs are our bros; that growth will solve all problems. No one said we have to believe a word of what we say
2) Make peace with China and remind them continually that they are a Dharmic nation at the core - none of the 100s of Chinese I've met in person show any signs of Hindu hating behavior
3) Undermine the UN and make it irrelevant, except when it suites our interests
4) Become a full fledged nuclear power with *reliable* triad
5) Become a $10 Trillion economy
6) Develop a MIC that rivals the ones the Russians, Americans, and Chinese have
7) Expedite the 3-stage nuclear power program
8) Expedite ISRO's space programs
9) Expedite R&D in Hypersonics, Cyberweapons, Lasers

Vayutuvan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10253
Joined: 20 Jun 2011 04:36

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Vayutuvan » 02 Oct 2019 21:08

VikramA wrote:^^^ the amount of nonsense these people are able to regurgitate is truly awe inspiring. It's like these old dinosaurs live in the 90s when their words went unchallenged and thus became the dominant narrative. Truly delusional lot


satyagraha only on October 2nd, 150 mahatma era. they engage in stone throwing and suicide/homicide terrorism on naarmal days. The Mahatma sinned serval times too, you see.

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12424
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby pankajs » 02 Oct 2019 21:46

Watch the embedded video
https://twitter.com/TimesNow/status/1179330879627386880
TIMES NOW @TimesNow

TIMES NOW SUPER #EXCLUSIVE | Sensational scandal in J&K.
Have a look at how Article 370 shielded treachery.
The Babu-Neta terror nexus excavated.
TIMES NOW’s Pradeep Dutta with details. Listen in.

https://twitter.com/Shatrughnakate/stat ... 2140174336
Shatrughna Kate @Shatrughnakate
Terrorists responsible for killing RSS and BJP leaders in Kashmir were given shelter by kin of Congress leaders. This is the same congress which had supported Afzal Guru and had called his execution wrong.

KLNMurthy
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3879
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 13:06

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby KLNMurthy » 02 Oct 2019 21:49

CRamS wrote:...
But sir, as an ordinary bloke, I want to understand from you on what is India's game-plan to deal with the crux of the issue: TSP? Is the gentle EAM telling us that as India pours money, manpower, and goodwill to earn the trust and love and respect of KMs, TSP and its Islamist proxies in the valley are going to sit by and watch?

Mahodaya, all you have to do is to please re-read Jaishankar's words, the game plan is spelled out clearly. Break the corrupt elite nexus, generate entrepreneurial opportunity, empower & support grassroots-level politicians and promote democracy. Oh, and keep massive amounts of repression on hand "as needed." That's it.

And yes, you have a right to be skeptical, or, if you prefer, terrified. So am I. The plan has at least as good a chance of failing as it does of succeeding.

A_Gupta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11602
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31
Contact:

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby A_Gupta » 02 Oct 2019 22:36

^^^ The key question is - If the plan fails, will India be worse off than it was on August 4, 2019?

There was Thomas Marks in the US War College who noted, around 2004, that the intensity of violence in J&K in the 1990s-2000s was less than that of many large US inner cities at that time (since then, the situation in the US has improved). So his answer to why the violence is so significant is that it is because it causes the frequent disruption of everyday life. IMO, GoI has traded some social media and communications freedoms for keeping the level of violence down.

If all this succeeds, then the success will justify the means used; and if it fails, well, then the world is going to hell anyway, so it won't matter.

schinnas
BRFite
Posts: 1443
Joined: 11 Jun 2009 09:44

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby schinnas » 02 Oct 2019 22:42

rahulm wrote:INDIAN-OCCUPIED KASHMIR: A NEW AMERICAN DILEMMA

A vitriolic attack by Motorham Qanta Ahmed. While Ahmed is a Brit Paki what’s up with Jerusalem Post for publishing this under its mast head ?

She seems to be a defender of Israel and is touted as a ‘Islam reformist ‘.

My friends in israel are telling me there is anti India stuff in relation to JK even on TV.


Many Israeli liberals harbour a sub-conscious guilt complex given their own harsh treatment of Palestinians. So they want to jump at any opportunity to do virtue signaling when they come across perceived atrocities on Muslims far away such as Rohingya issue or the falsehood propoganda on Kashmir.

This is exacerbated by the overall ignorance and poor image of India and Hinduism in Israel and Western societies outside of open minded Spiritual circles.

India should invest in cultivating influence in global media and in academia in every major nation in the world, west or east.

Despite the many defence, and govt to govt collaboration between Israel and India there is very little people to people exchange or interaction between Israeli civil society and India's. I hope NaMo sarkar works to change that.

The current sorry state is open invitation for pathological liars like IK Niazi to paint a false picture of RSS being a neo Nazis organization. Nobody is correcting that perspective in Western media.

ArjunPandit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3028
Joined: 29 Mar 2017 06:37

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby ArjunPandit » 02 Oct 2019 22:46

pankajs wrote:TIMES NOW’s Pradeep Dutta with details. Listen in.

https://twitter.com/Shatrughnakate/stat ... 2140174336
Shatrughna Kate @Shatrughnakate
Terrorists responsible for killing RSS and BJP leaders in Kashmir were given shelter by kin of Congress leaders. This is the same congress which had supported Afzal Guru and had called his execution wrong.
[/quote]

modi is ensuring that congress doesnt come up in elections for 2029..

CRamS
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6505
Joined: 07 Oct 2006 20:54
Contact:

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby CRamS » 02 Oct 2019 22:47

KLNMurthy wrote:Mahodaya, all you have to do is to please re-read Jaishankar's words, the game plan is spelled out clearly. Break the corrupt elite nexus, generate entrepreneurial opportunity, empower & support grassroots-level politicians and promote democracy. Oh, and keep massive amounts of repression on hand "as needed." That's it.

And yes, you have a right to be skeptical, or, if you prefer, terrified. So am I. The plan has at least as good a chance of failing as it does of succeeding.


On the same exact page.

With the additional caveat that there is another force multiplier to the Paki & valley Islamist combine. And that is India's opposition. Now, sorry to cross the Lakshman Rekha if you call it that, but unlike US democrats who might berate Trump but are staunch US nationalists, our opposition consist of a bunch of sell out outs who will do anything for power. As we speak, there is a coalition of Congoons and leftist traitors who are in cahoots with TSP. As Taliban showed at the UN, there is a common playbook between TSP and our traitors: RSS are the demons.

We are safe for next 4.5 years under BJP, but if this opposition cabal gains traction among Indian masses, all bets are off. Economy at large is key. I am sure ModiJi is aware of that even though its not as bad as the traitors want it to be.

schinnas
BRFite
Posts: 1443
Joined: 11 Jun 2009 09:44

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby schinnas » 02 Oct 2019 22:48

[quote="ArjunPandit"
modi is ensuring that congress doesnt come up in elections for 2029..[/quote]

Actually, Congress is busy ensuring it. Modi and Shah are cleverly acting as catalysts to Congi self destruction.


Return to “Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Dumal, VikramA and 51 guests