J&K Union Territory-2019

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KL Dubey
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by KL Dubey »

Supratik wrote:Separating J&K into Jammu state and Kashmir UT will be good from many angles. The insurgency problem is restricted to the Kashmir valley. The security establishment can now focus on Kashmir and let Jammu, Ladakh become normal states/UT. In any case Jammu and Kashmir are as different as Bihar and Bengal. No point in keeping them together as it does not serve any purpose.
No, it is a crazy idea. The security setup doesn't follow the political/administrative boundaries anyway. The separation of Ladakh from J&K was for the economic and democratic progress of that UT. There is absolutely no sense in undertaking a delimitation exercise in J&K and at the same time planning to bifurcate it.

This idea is simply not real, it just exists in the panicked minds of parasites like Muftis, Abdullahs etc who were left bare naked after Aug 5, 2019 and now brown their bare-assed behinds at the mere sight of BSF trucks coming back in.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 444832.cms
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by chetak »

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by rsingh »

This guy is a liability to Nation, congress and himself.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by Rishirishi »

Supratik wrote:Separating J&K into Jammu state and Kashmir UT will be good from many angles. The insurgency problem is restricted to the Kashmir valley. The security establishment can now focus on Kashmir and let Jammu, Ladakh become normal states/UT. In any case Jammu and Kashmir are as different as Bihar and Bengal. No point in keeping them together as it does not serve any purpose.

There are a lot of things that can not be expressed openly. I think the people who abolished the 370 must also have the mind to plan further actions. There is only 1 way to solve the issue permanently, but it can't be openly expressed. Everyone knows what it is. Kashmiri's had a very good deal, but got greedy.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by g.sarkar »

rsingh wrote:This guy is a liability to Nation, congress and himself.
Nope. Diggiraja is just taking care of Number 1. Read the history of India and the expansion of European powers in India. It full of people like Diggiraja in ruling positions. For decades India spent zillions on the development of J&K that went straight into the pockets of politicians. Now this badmash Modiji has come from nowhere and made that gravy train kaput. You know how much money that was? You think Diggiraja will take that lying down? Earlier they said that by procedure it was not possible to abolish 370. Now they say they will bring it back.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by g.sarkar »

KL Dubey wrote: No, it is a crazy idea. The security setup doesn't follow the political/administrative boundaries anyway. The separation of Ladakh from J&K was for the economic and democratic progress of that UT. There is absolutely no sense in undertaking a delimitation exercise in J&K and at the same time planning to bifurcate it.
This idea is simply not real, it just exists in the panicked minds of parasites like Muftis, Abdullahs etc who were left bare naked after Aug 5, 2019 and now brown their bare-assed behinds at the mere sight of BSF trucks coming back in.
It is certainly not a crazy idea. But it one of the ideas for J&K. I do not think bringing back a small number Pandits will make a difference. J&K needs a lot of Indians coming in and settling there. For that we need better connectivity, better industries, better infrastructure and peace. I think Modiji is working on those. After the takeover of Hyderabad, there was still a large Muslim elite entrenched there. These were the nobles in the Nizam's court, and those days wielded influence. They were made irrelevant by establishing modern industries, that brought in a huge number of outsiders. Jagirdar types lose influence in a modern society. Modiji might try that and bring J&K into the Indian mainstream.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by KL Dubey »

You said a lot in one post. Almost all of it makes perfect sense. But really, the bifurcation idea seems crazy. Why on earth start delimitation exercise for J&K as a whole if the idea is to bifurcate it further? And why create inconveniences for people from Jammu area who can help Kashmir develop and settle there?

Kashmiri Hindus returning would be great, but really at this point any Hindus settling in Kashmir will be just fine. Jammu Hindus are right next door and in the same UT.

Kashmir valley is very very small (basically an oversize district) compared to erstwhile Hyderabad state. Its population is probably less than that of just Hyd-Sec twin cities. The mainstreaming can happen much sooner save for the jihadi menace. Jammu is mainstreaming already at a very fast pace.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by V_Raman »

We are scoring self-goals here - Diggy did not say that 370 will be restored - all he said was statehood will be looked at...
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by shravanp »

First those Rohingyas must be evicted from Jammu. More news came up that Rohingyas were being settled in UP to offset popular vote (Yogiadityanath).
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by RajaRudra »

https://www.dawn.com/news/1629881/pakis ... ions-peace

^^^harami link

Pakistan on Thursday warned India against taking any further steps regarding Indian-occupied Kashmir (IOK), saying it could “imperil regional peace and security”.

------------------------------
Tiger Coming, Tiger Coming Story is in motion. When we really making moves, no one is going to listen this panicky guys. This Panickistanis done a similar rona dhona last week also. :rotfl:
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by chetak »

V_Raman wrote:We are scoring self-goals here - Diggy did not say that 370 will be restored - all he said was statehood will be looked at...
It means the same thing.

A false hope for their jehadi vote banks.

They will need considerable political firepower and parliamentary seat numbers in both houses to follow through on such "promises", numbers which are very unlikely to materialize in a hurry


BTW, why are we not publicly and regularly pointing out the long on going demographic changes which the pakis have bought about in POK by settling pakjabis and others there in large numbers
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by jamwal »

I am in favour of Jammu as a separate state or a part of Himachal. Delimitation with or without split of state is long overdue anyway.

Special settlement for KPs in Kashmir require the inhabitants to have mental fortitude like Israelis have. Most Hindus, and KPs most of all lack such will. Majority of them lack the guts to even call out the bigotry of their muslim neighbours and friends. It's foolish to expect anything from them except demand for freebies, quotas and jobs. Better to get ex-servicemen or civilian non-muslims from other parts of country get cheap lands in Srinagar and adjoining areas.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by KL Dubey »

jamwal wrote:I am in favour of Jammu as a separate state or a part of Himachal. Delimitation with or without split of state is long overdue anyway.
Why on earth foist Jammu and its border issues on HP and fawk another state ?

And no, nothing in J & K right now can/should proceed without direct supervision/control by the Union government without complications of state governments.
Special settlement for KPs in Kashmir require the inhabitants to have mental fortitude like Israelis have. Most Hindus, and KPs most of all lack such will. Majority of them lack the guts to even call out the bigotry of their muslim neighbours and friends. It's foolish to expect anything from them except demand for freebies, quotas and jobs. Better to get ex-servicemen or civilian non-muslims from other parts of country get cheap lands in Srinagar and adjoining areas.
Things are changing. Any Hindus should be welcome to settle in Kashmir. There is a trickle of returnees already which will increase. And yes the civilian government population is also a part of the picture. They are being given employment by Modi sarkar. A few thousand more Kashmiri Hindus had returned in the years before Art 370 got scrapped.

https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... e-7233306/

Again, direct control as a single UT is key until the demographics are stabilized irreversibly and the UT is fully integrated with India. It is a long way to restore a Hindu population back to 0.5-1 million levels. We have to accept that the fact that it cannot be accomplished only with Kashmiri Hindus.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by jamwal »

Jammu and Himachal have similar cultures, languages and people. Also I am a card carrying citizen of the state and it is something that a lot of Dogras will prefer than being a slave to muslim kashmir. Our demand was to split the state in to 3 and make Jammu free of yoke of Islamist Kashmiris.

Kashmiri Hindus which can be a part of solution don't exist. Like I said earlier, we need Hindus, Jains, Buddhists from rest of India to balance demographics of Kashmir. Sikhs in the state are too much of khalistani and appan Hinduan nu bachaya si supremacist type who claim to have much in common with Islam than Hinduism. So they will be a liability against us if they increase in numbers.
There is a trickle of returnees already which will increase. And yes the civilian government population is also a part of the picture. They are being given employment by Modi sarkar. A few thousand more Kashmiri Hindus had returned in the years before Art 370 got scrapped.
:rotfl:
Was it published in whatsapp university?
Only Hindus in Kashmir are those of sarkari job type who are posted there. They are all from different parts of state. My friends and family get posted there every now and then and have to live in sarkari quarters or safe areas. Local Hindus have not returned apart from 2-3 politicians and even they are being killed by kashmiriyat following namazis.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by sanjaykumar »

Interesting, then there is no need to include Sikhs in the citizenship amendment act. Their great leader in panjab is against the CAA.

Perhaps disaffected Sikhs from Delhi can move to the Kashmir valley. Perhaps they can move back to Pakistan.

Inquiring minds want to know.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by KL Dubey »

jamwal wrote:Was it published in whatsapp university?
Can you look and tell me? I dont use whatsapp.
Only Hindus in Kashmir are those of sarkari job type who are posted there. They are all from different parts of state. My friends and family get posted there every now and then and have to live in sarkari quarters or safe areas. Local Hindus
[/quote]

Thats what i just said, and posted a news item. Not sure what you are going on about.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by ArjunPandit »

jamwal wrote:Jammu and Himachal have similar cultures, languages and people. Also I am a card carrying citizen of the state and it is something that a lot of Dogras will prefer than being a slave to muslim kashmir. Our demand was to split the state in to 3 and make Jammu free of yoke of Islamist Kashmiris.

Kashmiri Hindus which can be a part of solution don't exist. Like I said earlier, we need Hindus, Jains, Buddhists from rest of India to balance demographics of Kashmir. Sikhs in the state are too much of khalistani and appan Hinduan nu bachaya si supremacist type who claim to have much in common with Islam than Hinduism. So they will be a liability against us if they increase in numbers.
There is a trickle of returnees already which will increase. And yes the civilian government population is also a part of the picture. They are being given employment by Modi sarkar. A few thousand more Kashmiri Hindus had returned in the years before Art 370 got scrapped.
:rotfl:
Was it published in whatsapp university?
Only Hindus in Kashmir are those of sarkari job type who are posted there. They are all from different parts of state. My friends and family get posted there every now and then and have to live in sarkari quarters or safe areas. Local Hindus have not returned apart from 2-3 politicians and even they are being killed by kashmiriyat following namazis.
jamwal my biggest fear is that HP will face already increase of influx...HP also has kinda 35 that doesnt let non locals buy land. However, malsis and love jihads are using these as a way. I havent been to HP in ages so cant comment only sharing what i heard.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by jamwal »

Dubey ji
Only time when non-Muslims were not getting posted to Kashmir was in 90s when terrorism was at its peak. Darbar Move didn't happen normally and all Hindu and other non-Muslim staff stayed in Jammu instead of moving to kashmir for summers. Once things got under control Hindu sarkari workers were getting posted there and moving with summer secretariat and other departments.

I am not sure what exactly are these new jobs but it is unlikely to be anything new. It is pointless unless Kashmiri Hindus can go back to their ancestral homes without muslims being able to be threaten them and facing very serious consequences. Go and check how many of Hindus have gone back with families. Perhaps 2 if you are lucky. Unless movement happens in large scale with families, all this is pointless.
Taking back their homes requires returning Hindus to have some spine and willingness to kill for defence of their homes and families. Like I keep on saying, Hindus lack this spirit in general. Only VDCs set up in certain parts of Jammu managed to defend themselves from muslims and their terrorists, but they were woefully equipped with ancient 303 rifles. Even this present govt is too much hungry for approval to protect Hindus like it's needed.

People read 4-5 flawed articles a month and have strong opinions about hugely complex issues. Reality is quite different most of the time.


Himachal landlaws don't allow sale of land, but outsiders can buy flats. You can take land on lease for business or a house. Himachalis in general are pretty redpilled and don't take this one sided secularism seriously. My first preference for Jammu is to be a separate state or UT, but if that's not possible then merger with Himachal will be good. Most Jammu residents are fed up of muslims from Kashmir and surrounding areas in north stealing all jobs, lands and the state support they get. Local politicians are not liked much either. So any of above will be a good improvement.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by KL Dubey »

jamwal wrote:Himachal landlaws don't allow sale of land, but outsiders can buy flats. You can take land on lease for business or a house. Himachalis in general are pretty redpilled and don't take this one sided secularism seriously. My first preference for Jammu is to be a separate state or UT, but if that's not possible then merger with Himachal will be good. Most Jammu residents are fed up of muslims from Kashmir and surrounding areas in north stealing all jobs, lands and the state support they get. Local politicians are not liked much either. So any of above will be a good improvement.
Makes no sense. As I understand, 6 of the 10 districts in Jammu are green majority, and only 4 saffron majority. About 35% population of Jammu districts is green, i.e. about 2.5 million out of 7 million.

Why on earth would anybody want to foist this population on another small state that itself has only about 8 million people and is 90+% saffron ? Why do you want this relatively serene place to get infested with jihadis and get exposed to the LOC (as if the Chinese border wasn't enough of a pain-in-the-Xi). It seems a highly effective way to screw the state of Himachal Pradesh.

All this "Jammu joining HP" or "separate Jammu state" is pure fantasy. The J&K LG had already scotched these fake rumors a week ago. The high-level meeting to be held by NaMo (late next week?) is likely to be about introducing some assembly-level electoral process in J&K. It is a UT with a legislature, so I reckon Modi feels it's nearing the time to think about warming those seats. It will be interesting to know the delimitation of the seats.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by jamwal »

If Himachalis don't want it, it will not happen. I just want my homeland to have indpendence from islamists. Why are you getting so worked up about it? This place is just for idle discussions. If you think my wishlist typed here will be taken seriously by govt, then ofcourse it is a different matter.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by ramana »

V_Raman wrote:We are scoring self-goals here - Diggy did not say that 370 will be restored - all he said was statehood will be looked at...
I guess you know Diggy's mind better than him?
He openly is saying will bring back Art 370.
And he is saying to Pakis who have no say in J&K.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by ramana »

KLD, Why you keep saying crazy idea? Discuss if you want without name-calling the proposal.
As the Taliban takes over Afghanistan, need to detach Jammu from Kashmir.
So only thing to discuss is the POK merger with Kashmir.

Kashmir medieval history runs through Afghanistan.
Not Pakjab.
So let us be clear.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by g.sarkar »

https://www.freepressjournal.in/india/j ... ne-24-meet
Jammu and Kashmir parties in huddle after PM Modi’s invite for June 24 meet
By FPJ News Service, June 20, 2021

SRINAGAR/NEW DELHI: Mainstream regional parties in Jammu and Kashmir, including the National Conference (NC) and the People’s Democratic Party went into a huddle on Sunday over the all-party meeting called by Prime Minister Narendra Modi on June 24, while the Congress raised the pitch for immediate restoration of statehood to J-K.
The deliberations came ahead of a joint meeting of the People's Alliance for Gupkar Declaration (PAGD), an amalgam of six political parties including the NC, PDP, CPM, Awami National Conference, CPI and JK People's Movement, to be held on Tuesday to discuss their stand on the Centre's invite.
According to media reports, the meeting on June 24 will entail a discussion on the delimitation exercise with the avowed aim of eventual restoration of Jammu and Kashmir’s statehood, the last step in its political integration with the Indian Union.The delimitation commission seeks to redraw the electoral map of Jammu and Kashmir by creating more constituencies – a long-pending demand of parties in Jammu, where the Bharatiya Janata Party is strong. The NC and the PDP are opposed to the delimitation exercise.
A two-hour-long political affairs committee meeting of Mehbooba Mufti’s PDP was held on Sunday. Mehbooba Mufti has stressed on a collective fight for the restoration of statehood and Article 370 (a no-no with Centre). Mufti chaired a meeting of the party Sunday afternoon in Srinagar, hours after receiving a formal invitation from Union Home Secretary Ajay Bhalla for an All-Party meeting on June 24 which will be chaired by Prime Minister Narendra Modi.
.....
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by jamwal »

What we call Pak Occupied Kashmir hardly has any Kashmir in it. It has parts of Rajauri and Punch which are Jammu Provinces along with a small portion of Uri which is Kashmir. Gilgit and Baltistan were sparsely populated enclaves which have been independent and parts of different Indian empires over the years. Maharaja Gulab Singh managed to capture and assimilate them which was a huge achievement for him considering the age and size of Dogra empire then.
PoK can be granted status of a special UT territory if govt is thinking about taking any steps in this direction. MLAs and MPs can be chosen from Hindu refugees living in Jammu. I know some who received financial aid in last 3-4 years which was supposed to given to all refugees from 1947-48.

Special status accorded to J&K can be removed. Jammu should be given the status of a normal hill state like Himachal or a UT. Kashmir should be kept as UT like Laddakh. K should be under direct central control and non-muslims, ex-servicemen type people should be given land and sarkari jobs to balance out Kashmiri demographics. At the same time, any mischief by KM should be crushed with ruthless violence.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by RajaRudra »

Twitter is trending Black*Dar*for*Jammu( don't want to add to the trend so giving *)

Why this is trending, any decision made on today meeting on jk? i searched in the google news links..not found any..
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by jamwal »

Vidhwa vilaap by viraat Dogra types. They keep on hibernating for most important issues and wake up periodically to whine against anything that center (and BJP) does in the state. Quite a few of them have political ambitions too. They can't hope to get muslim and sikh votes, so they try their best to divide Hindus who support BJP by being noisy.

Image
Concerning thing is that many people will take this trash seriously.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by RajaRudra »

^^^
Thanks for the crisp information about the twitter trend. Only hope for JK non Muslims is BJP.
Hope the better sense prevails.

(This picture, i thought will burn something in Islamabad for some reason. not expected from Jammu) :rotfl:

Now expecting, a similar session(talks) with the Arthis leader in few months. After they realized tenting in the delhi is not going to be of any more use.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by ArjunPandit »

jamwal wrote:What we call Pak Occupied Kashmir hardly has any Kashmir in it. It has parts of Rajauri and Punch which are Jammu Provinces along with a small portion of Uri which is Kashmir. Gilgit and Baltistan were sparsely populated enclaves which have been independent and parts of different Indian empires over the years. Maharaja Gulab Singh managed to capture and assimilate them which was a huge achievement for him considering the age and size of Dogra empire then.
PoK can be granted status of a special UT territory if govt is thinking about taking any steps in this direction. MLAs and MPs can be chosen from Hindu refugees living in Jammu. I know some who received financial aid in last 3-4 years which was supposed to given to all refugees from 1947-48.

Special status accorded to J&K can be removed. Jammu should be given the status of a normal hill state like Himachal or a UT. Kashmir should be kept as UT like Laddakh. K should be under direct central control and non-muslims, ex-servicemen type people should be given land and sarkari jobs to balance out Kashmiri demographics. At the same time, any mischief by KM should be crushed with ruthless violence.
so nothing new is emerging ..another chai biskut session where PM heard everyone...
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by shravanp »

I think its aptly clear. First delimitation. Only after that will be state government (and elections). Rest all talk or speculation by mediaramkhors is rhetoric
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by ArjunPandit »

wasnt that the plan always..what was the point of this chai biskoot? that is why nothing new is emerging...
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by chetak »

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by chetak »

ArjunPandit wrote:wasnt that the plan always..what was the point of this chai biskoot? that is why nothing new is emerging...
what they wanted and didn’t get: early elections + statehood

what they didn't want but got: 370 never, delimitation, defanged and delay

the pakis will be more upset at Modi's chutzpah than the local leeches who will no longer will have the Indian taxpayer funded public trough to gleefully gorge from.

jizziya days seem to have ended, and hopefully, the delimitation will be done before the next general elections.

all that begging Modi to talk to the pakis, has had no effect at all on the proceedings.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by rsingh »

Usual suspects are not leaking any tit-bits? I wonder if samuhik dhulai was administerd?
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by ArjunPandit »

well said chetak.....I think modi ji just called everyone for chai biskoot session..and played the role of agony aunt and thats it....called them in delhi summers to show its quite hot in here..
where i will disagree with you is that NRPs, including hurriyat will seething more than actual pakistanis..now even talking to them seems like a concession..
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by KL Dubey »

shravanp wrote:I think its aptly clear. First delimitation. Only after that will be state government (and elections). Rest all talk or speculation by mediaramkhors is rhetoric
Not even that. First delimitation, then assembly election under UT status, then behavior-based movement to state status. Anything else would be naive. This was the original plan stated clearly by Amit Shah in parliament. I see no change to that, and nothing else seems to have been outlined by Modi in the meeting. Otherwise Abdullah et al would have been giving press conferences about their "successful demand for early statehood".

All the other talk of impending state formation, another bifurcation, infecting himachal with abdullah and mufti, etc is all just rumors and people's personal desires having their day.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by Varoon Shekhar »

Lest we forget- Ghazi Baba, mastermind of the Indian parliament attack. Wouldn't be surprising if some Indians remember a terror attack in the US, but not this one, or the individual who planned it. BSF sacrificed to capture the terrorist.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/hom ... 680974.cms
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by chetak »

Those who said Article 370 cannot be abrogated, and that there will be no one available who would unfurl the tricolor in cashmere, are now meeting Modi, with five Indian Flags facing them


Image


मोदी है तो मुमकिन है
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by shravanp »

I think, more than Modi factor, it simply showed how the Cashmiri hyenas (hurrirats, pdp, nc) are. Full of cowardice, and if you whack them just a little bit, they will cow down meekly. Its just that all these years these hyenas were emboldened, encouraged, richly fed by GoI (mainly Congressi). All their shrieking, shouting, crying their lungs out in past was because GoI stayed either complicit or silent towards the corrupt leadership in Cashmere. Even history shows the same. After Afghan rule in Kashmir, Dogras and Sikhs could easily take over the Kashmir valley and rule over them. And here we are talking about a strong might of GoI headed by a strong leader i.e NaMo. The hyenas have no way to be other than tuck tails behind their legs and meekly surrender.
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by Cyrano »

I find it nauseating to see Modi sharing the discussion table and photo opps with anti national looters like Farookh Abdullah and Mehbooba Mufti. Sab ka saath, sab ka vishwaas must not mean re-legitimising these rats, which will only lead to stifling the fledgling independent and honest political forces that have started to emerge in the past couple of years.

I really wonder what he is up to sometimes, and where does he draw a line in terms of acceptable conduct to merit inclusion in his famous slogan.
ramana
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Post by ramana »

Please Don't whine on good news.
Can't tell what was discussed but it's all great.
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