J&K Union Territory-2019

[Aditya_V]

Also it's malicious to label those heinous events of 1984 as Hindu-Sikh riots. They were INC/Congress (I)-organised attacks on the Sikhs of Delhi.

Conveniently forgetting INC being a Very Secular Party had quite a number of seculars doing rioting for their leaders as well. It should Peace with Pakistan supporting and Sikh riots.

[kittoo]

The IAS, IPS and IFS recruitment process seems to be pretty corrupted and in need of a Broom-e--AmitShah. Recently as u may have seen, Kerala Polis exam top-rankers were found to be also those who had the question papers and answer papers in their homes: may have done the grading by themselves too. All CPI(M)/ SFI/ DYFI. That Kannan bugger also does not cast Malloostani IAS in a very good light, his herrowic doings in the Flood of 2018 may have been also CPI(M) scam.
Some of the diplos that they send abroad also don't come through looking that great, though that has improved a bit.

Oh that whole apparatus is infected deeply. I've seen my own friends change and become leftist,atheists,hindu-hating Islamopasand idiots even while coaching for UPSC. From the curriculum to teachers to exam to interviewers, the whole system is designed to weed out any pro-India element in the centre right sense. Interesting to note that Muslims preparing for UPSC dont become atheist. They become even more hardcore and get supported by Hindus around them. They post pukeworthy anti-India posts and get cheered on by others. The whole system is rotten.

[Deans]

If India gets POk and unites Kashmir - there will be permanent peace. Kashmiris will be grateful eternally.

I don't think getting back POK is either possible (in an immediate conventional war) or desirable. In military terms we only have marginal superiority along the LOC, where PA is well dug in. The population of POK is virulently opposed to India (except perhaps in GB).
Instead it should become Pakistan's Kashmir - by which I mean civil disturbances and cross LOC actions should serve to bleed the Pak state. In specific terms our objectives should be:

Military: Recapture the Haji Pir bulge. Do a reverse Kargil (creeping occupation of important peaks between the Gurez Valley and Siachen, if nothing else, forces Pak army to permanently occupy the area.
Battle of attrition along the LOC, An artillery division and perhaps another infantry division can move to the LOC, without upsetting our posture anywhere else. We will then have the capacity to inflict higher casualties (and incur more expenditure on firepower) than PA. The density of civilians along the LOC is higher on the POK side than ours, so they incur higher civilian casualties in cross border fire (I would take a cynical view that our casualties would matter less, if they are from the population with anti-India sentiments, being killed by a country they supposedly admire.

Political - Constantly highlight the plight of the original population of POK, where demographic change has taken place (Punjabis outnumbering Kashmiris in Azad Kashmir and Sunni Pathans outnumbering the Shia population of GB). Start water wars. If we complete the Tulbul barrage, the Jhelum valley can be flooded. Start tinkering with the IWT.

[SRajesh]

I have pooch for legal-eagles on the Forum
1. What is the legal option of Kashmiri Pandit who were either forced to sell land for pittance on duress or has been illegally occupied by KM
Can the full force IPC both civil and criminal laws be enforced to evict the illegal occupation.
Also can they expect any compensation for having been forced to sell for pittance
2. I am sure just like the temples in rest of India the Kashmiri temples also must have had land and property endowed to them
So what is the status of the property of the temples either destroyed or in ruins
If there are illegal occupation can they be evicted legally and the property returned to the temple committe
3. Also was there Mujrai department as per J&K constitution
Do you reckon that th illegal occupiers are worried that they will be caught
God knows what the KM dominated revenue department have made numerous ‘Ghotala’
And any of this have any bearing on the so called ‘non cooperation ‘movement of the local
And lastly a docu-drama by friendly TV be detrimental to the on going efforts to normalise the conditions
Eager for any Gyan in this matter

Yes, item #1 can be pursued. The law is behind you.

Same with item #2. However it will go into religio-political discussions.

Item #3 will scream like crazies and feed into Item #2. There are enough lootyens #mediapimps supported by CONgoons who would love to feed at that trough.

I watched Ashish Dhar program
Hence questions I believe are quite pertinent
And some where I believe the Local KM are worried that illegal occupation of property will go
Also maybe more revenue and land record manipulation may come to light
Why can’t we hold up a mirror to the so called moderate KM and show them what they are
I know it maybe a double edged sword but I think this will show that it is not just TSP but the local KM are equally culpable and there was an economic angle/avarice involved in their actions and not just religion

[Kashi]

So SC issues notices over communication restrictions and refers Article 370 to a five member bench.

Also allows Yechury to meet party colleague (and nothing else..)

[disha]

^RSatchi'ji, please get on twitter. There are several legal eagles on twitter who would be ready to fight for a cause. Maybe pro-bono. In fact Kashmiri Pandits should create a legal grievance cell, pool their resources and sue Hurriyat, NC, PDP and KM individuals.

Both civil and criminal cases can be brought against them. At least against the murders of the KPs https://ikashmir.net/atrocities/11.html

Further cases can be brought against the media houses who are supporting the Cashmere cause and justified atrocities on Kashmiri Pandits.

All it requires is a lawyer to stand up in the J&K court. A lawyer well versed in IPC and also knows the local scene including the local Kashmiri Police who can identify the perpetrators or at least register appropriate FIRs.

[manjgu]

were the kashmiri pandits only in the valley or even in areas known as POK, GB at the time of independence??

[pankajs]

So SC issues notices over communication restrictions and refers Article 370 to a five member bench.

Also allows Yechury to meet party colleague (and nothing else..)

Very reasonable.

1. Communication has started being restored in patched. By the time SC gets to the end of the hearing most restriction would have been lifted. However Internet has to be kept shut for an extended period.
2. A.370 with the constitutional bench will take its own time. After the things have settled the case can be dismissed with a lot of pompous sweet nothings.
3. GOI is already allowing access for family and friends to the detained folks. The most recent report indicate that the detainees are down from ~2050 to ~350 with ~300 being held outside the state.

Works reasonable well for GOI.

[Sachin]

Politics live | Kashmir is India’s internal issue, no room for Pakistan to intervene, says Rahul Gandhi
Hear..hear..hear!! What more is required?? Even the Yuvraj of Indian politics Shri. Rahul Ghandi has now clearly stated that Kashmir is India's internal affair and Pakistan can do a quick march to else where. . At this rate it would only be CPI(M), CPI and Pakistan who would be still saying that Kashmir is a disputed territory.

[chetak]

So SC issues notices over communication restrictions and refers Article 370 to a five member bench.

Also allows Yechury to meet party colleague (and nothing else..)

Very reasonable.

1. Communication has started being restored in patched. By the time SC gets to the end of the hearing most restriction would have been lifted. However Internet has to be kept shut for an extended period.
2. A.370 with the constitutional bench will take its own time. After the things have settled the case can be dismissed with a lot of pompous sweet nothings.
3. GOI is already allowing access for family and friends to the detained folks. The most recent report indicate that the detainees are down from ~2050 to ~350 with ~300 being held outside the state.

Works reasonable well for GOI.

I don't trust these guys.

they march to the tune of a different drummer.

[banrjeer]

were the kashmiri pandits only in the valley or even in areas known as POK, GB at the time of independence??

Many Sikhs and Hindus were forced to flee from POK gilgit baltistan in 1947.

Apparently the reverse also happened in Jammu?
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/11/ ... 26930.html

Sikhs were also targeted by militants but some stayed back.
https://www.news18.com/news/politics/si ... 30193.html

[chetak]

Politics live | Kashmir is India’s internal issue, no room for Pakistan to intervene, says Rahul Gandhi
Hear..hear..hear!! What more is required?? Even the Yuvraj of Indian politics Shri. Rahul Ghandi has now clearly stated that Kashmir is India's internal affair and Pakistan can do a quick march to else where. . At this rate it would only be CPI(M), CPI and Pakistan who would be still saying that Kashmir is a disputed territory.

when there is a grave danger of the family testimonials being slow roasted over an open flame, discretion is the best part of imagined valor.

a "tiger" whose stripes washes off in the first light showers of summer is nothing more than a lootyens painted masquerading goat.

sur mein sur was milaoed with the pakis ever since art 370 went up in ceremonial smoke but the mere thought of being quoted at the UNGA by an enemy state, despite what the lootyens lobby may think, is doubly daunting and traitorous and its also something that this moron and the mafia will never live down for generations to come.

[manjgu]

were the kashmiri pandits only in the valley or even in areas known as POK, GB at the time of independence??

Many Sikhs and Hindus were forced to flee from POK gilgit baltistan in 1947.

Apparently the reverse also happened in Jammu?
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/11/ ... 26930.html

Sikhs were also targeted by militants but some stayed back.
https://www.news18.com/news/politics/si ... 30193.html

i am talking of kashmir pandits onlee.. I know dogras did flee from other parts of J&K state ( 1947)

[chetak]

So SC issues notices over communication restrictions and refers Article 370 to a five member bench.

Also allows Yechury to meet party colleague (and nothing else..)

uncle yech is not one to be deterred by the courts.

He will precipitate a crisis and try to make it go viral.

[Sachin]

uncle yech is not one to be deterred by the courts.
He will precipitate a crisis and try to make it go viral.

Jobless Yechuri will try to make a scene in Kashmir, that is the whole reason for his existence. But what can be done is to bring Tarigami to the airport, give both of them tea & biscuits allow them to talk and send Yechuri back. Or else a few 'disgruntled youth' can be arranged near the airport to welcome Yechuri by stone throwing .

[Aditya_V]

were the kashmiri pandits only in the valley or even in areas known as POK, GB at the time of independence??

Many Sikhs and Hindus were forced to flee from POK gilgit baltistan in 1947.

Apparently the reverse also happened in Jammu?
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/11/ ... 26930.html

Sikhs were also targeted by militants but some stayed back.
https://www.news18.com/news/politics/si ... 30193.html

Al Jazeera is doing creative History here, Pathans invaded Kashmir to evil Hindus massacring Muslims onlee

[Yagnasri]

https://www.news18.com/news/india/kashm ... 86831.html

SC is hearing the case in Oct 2019.

[pankajs]

https://twitter.com/sidhant/status/1166595736735236097

Sidhant Sibal @sidhant

Russian envoy to India Nikolay Kudashev, speaking to reporters in Delhi, today reiterated Moscow's stance on Kashmir & said abrogation of article 370 is India's internal matter

[Primus]

Also it's malicious to label those heinous events of 1984 as Hindu-Sikh riots. They were INC/Congress (I)-organised attacks on the Sikhs of Delhi.

Yes, one must question the intent of the poster.

I was there during those terrible days. My family spent several nights locked up in the last bedroom in the house, armed with nothing but mirchi powder in case the miscreants broke into our home. All night long there were shouts and cries coming from the basti behind our home which was near a railway line, the basti had many Sikh residents. We were just as terrified of these goons as the Sikhs were.

The Congress had shipped in truck loads of Muslims from neighboring UP towns to do the dirty work. Hindus actually went around patrolling the streets at night, safeguarding the Sikhs in our neighborhood, one cousin even sheltered their neighbors in their own home. I have a huge family in Delhi and many of them did this.

So please stop spreading these kind of lies. It is a painful memory for so many of us already.

[Gautam_2]

Another hitjob article by Bezos owned WaPoo

India must stop weaponizing the pain of Kashmiri Pandits

written by a bleeding heart pandit, born and raised american, because her grandparents got kicked out by KMs from the valley.

irony died many deaths today.

We need to counter propagandus

[Varoon Shekhar]

^
What one popular TV host called a $50 piece written for US newspapers, to denigrate India. So much that is wrong with it, it's hard to begin. At least should mention Pulwamma and the deaths of 40+ Indians there. Cross border infiltration of Jihadis, stone and rock pelting, indigenous militancy, the slaughter of anyone who's sympathetic or well disposed to India, POK, amount and type of weaponry captured, the arguments for and against abrogation...

What is wrong with these people.

[UlanBatori]

Day 22. Situation NAAAAAAAAAAAAARmal

Too early to celebrate saar. Am sure anger is building up in everyone there. Wasn't there news of killing a truck driver by stone pelters who assumed the driver to be from the army.

We celebrate when we can. This is by far the most bissfool summer that CashMore has experienced since 780CE.
Yes, the bissful will want to exercise their long-suppressed throwing arms - but the numbers of star fielders are being reduced (I hope!) with Arunachal Express running regular service thrice daily, with Amit's Friendly Couriers filling the train on the return trip.

The message is being driven home: wanna throw stones? Stay inside your micro-pakistan. Come out and never return. These areas should be driven to slum-ness, and encroached by bulldozing offenders' homes and taking the land through punitive monetary awards to injured policemen/ vehicle-owners. Totally legal. In any case where stone-throwers confess to being incited, the punitive awards should reach out to the ORGANIZATIONS of the inciters, like what happened to Ku Klux Klan in Al Obama. Their HQ building is now the HQ of the Southern Poverty Law Center who drove the lawsuit home and got the judgements enforced - I think the case was the lynching of a US Army soldier who was home on leave. Think about that:

Kashmir Center for National Integration, Building Donated By Generous (involuntary) Benevolence of Lashkar-e-Toiba, KV branch

In the long term, this is the only way to beat the Violence Strategy that seems unbeatable in India in overthrowing governments (Protest march, stone-throwing to incite tear gas, more stone-throwing to force lathi-charge, pictures of bleeding and hospitalized Innocents, more protests someone fires at polis, 10 Innocents killed in Police Firing, massive Funeral Procession with protests.... govt falls. In CashMore, International Condomnashun.

Sue the rioters and track down the leaders who incited. Drive their organizations broke. Invite Sitaram Yechury to watch the re-dedication of the reconstructed village, as a lesson for Malloostan.

[UlanBatori]

Day 23. Situation Naaaaaaarmaaal. {yawn}
Main protests seem to be at Bloomberg, Wall Street Journal etc.
RaGa's U-turn reads pathetic.

[arshyam]

The Congress had shipped in truck loads of Muslims from neighboring UP towns to do the dirty work. Hindus actually went around patrolling the streets at night, safeguarding the Sikhs in our neighborhood, one cousin even sheltered their neighbors in their own home. I have a huge family in Delhi and many of them did this.

Despite being from the far south, I can proudly claim to know a few folks who also did this.

[yensoy]

were the kashmiri pandits only in the valley or even in areas known as POK, GB at the time of independence??

I know this doesn't answer your question, but there were Sikhs in the PoK area in plenty and some of them were very well off. See this BBC article https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-42820910 The Kashmiri property rows that date back to British India. Synopsis of story - wealthy Sikh family in PoK, invaders, Sikh male members disappear/killed, females "embrace" (rather contract) islam and remarry, now their progeny is stuck in legal battles because the properties are identified as evacuee property.

[UlanBatori]

At the risk of re-opening wounds:

Thapa asked for permission to withdraw from Skardu on August 4, but this ... Most of the personnel were captured and killed. Thapa became a prisoner of war (POW) and survived courtesy CinC Pakistan Army – Lieutenant General Gracey – with ... commander's report to his headquarters: “All Sikhs shot, all women raped!"

What an achievement for Paki "Army" Mijjile Traditions!
Yes, there are a few scores to be settled, I hope by opening the doors to LaHore and 'Pindi to the "Pathan Tribesmen" from Pakhtoonistan again. This time minus PA "leadership"

[chetak]

The Congress had shipped in truck loads of Muslims from neighboring UP towns to do the dirty work. Hindus actually went around patrolling the streets at night, safeguarding the Sikhs in our neighborhood, one cousin even sheltered their neighbors in their own home. I have a huge family in Delhi and many of them did this.

Despite being from the far south, I can proudly claim to know a few folks who also did this.

so @Primus ji, how come those muslims were not tracked down or penalized in any way.

can't something be done even now

just asking onlee, not disputing your statement.

[SBajwa]

That was an informative presentation of a civilisational battle.

I hope SBajwa can relate the history of Guru Teg Bahadur in the civilisational misunderstanding.

I myself don’t know much about it. But i know it is time other Indians especially from the east and the south learn a bit more.

Like! I have been saying!!! Kashmir problem did not started with 1947 and Maharaja Hari Singh. It started with Jahangir(opium) the charsi, Shahjehan (20+ kids) the tharki and Aurungzeb the mazhabi. Aurungzeb (1618-1707) ruled from 1658-1707 got Kashmir converted to Sunni Hanafi Islam through force. It was then that it became a huge problem for Kashmiris that a delegation was led by Bhai Kirpa Ram Dutt to the 9th Guru Guru Tegh Bahadur ji., culminating in the shaheedi of brothers Bhai Mati Dass and Bhai Sati Dass, Bhai Dyal Dass and then finally Guru Tegh Bahadur. Guru had earlier declared that if they can convert him then all Kashmiris will convert but Mughals resorted to the murder of the whole party of 4.

Kashmir problem is problem of civilization and not a problem between India-Pakistan!!! Aurungzeb's followers (Pakistan) must be defeated and lots of blood has been shed to defeat them since 1670s.

Aurungzeb also murdered lots of Jats, Satnamis (Sect around Haryana at that time) and various other sampardya followers who refused to be converted!!

JNU with Romilla Thapar and other leftists have done very wrong with our history!

[SBajwa]

Sir the 84 riots were not organic in nature. They were organized mostly by youth congress leaders who hired Bajrang Dal to do what they do best.

There is no evidence to your statement that Bajrang Dal was involved in this. There is in fact lot of incidents wherein RSS people saved Sikhs in Delhi. Had Bajrang Dal was involved in any way they would have been hanged by Media first and they by the Congress Government.

This idea of blaming RSS and its pariwar organisations for 1984 is the recent ploy of INC gangs. Bajrang Dal people do not hate Sikhs and not goon for hire as you are making out here.

I doubt if Bajrang dal was even there in 1984. I do not remember any religious organizations murdering Sikhs in 1984 it was all congress workers (many Muslims).

In 1985, Salman Khurshid wrote a book in which he says that "Muslims were happy that Sikhs got murdered and they thought of this as a revenge for 1947 riots".

[vera_k]

This idea of blaming RSS and its pariwar organisations for 1984 is the recent ploy of INC gangs.

Not that recent. The first I saw this was in a Human Rights Watch report ~2006 during the UPA-1 days. I think it started as part of the effort to club rioting with BJP after 2002.

[A_Gupta]

I doubt if Bajrang dal was even there in 1984. I do not remember any religious organizations murdering Sikhs in 1984 it was all congress workers (many Muslims).

Bajrang Dal was founded October 7 or 8, 1984, just a few weeks before Indira Gandhi's assassination (October 31, 1984) and subsequent riots. Bajrang Dal was formed to support the VHP's Ayodhya movement. It is next to impossible that it was involved.

[banrjeer]

^RSatchi'ji, please get on twitter. There are several legal eagles on twitter who would be ready to fight for a cause. Maybe pro-bono. In fact Kashmiri Pandits should create a legal grievance cell, pool their resources and sue Hurriyat, NC, PDP and KM individuals.

Both civil and criminal cases can be brought against them. At least against the murders of the KPs https://ikashmir.net/atrocities/11.html

Further cases can be brought against the media houses who are supporting the Cashmere cause and justified atrocities on Kashmiri Pandits.

All it requires is a lawyer to stand up in the J&K court. A lawyer well versed in IPC and also knows the local scene including the local Kashmiri Police who can identify the perpetrators or at least register appropriate FIRs.

KP should club themselves with Sikhs and KM who have been similarly murdered or displaced.

Then they will be less susceptible to politics.

[Jay]

We celebrate when we can. This is by far the most bissfool summer that CashMore has experienced since 780CE.
Yes, the bissful will want to exercise their long-suppressed throwing arms - but the numbers of star fielders are being reduced (I hope!) with Arunachal Express running regular service thrice daily, with Amit's Friendly Couriers filling the train on the return trip.

Absolutely agree with this. Valley can shoot itself in the foot while Jammu and Ladakh regions come out and participate in their democratic activities while also uplifting themselves up using full resources available to them, courtesy of Indian Republic. SDRE's should stop shivering about what something may happen if this goes on for 100 days. What will happen is that there will be no piling of bodies for 100 days and the Modi/Shaw government will be celebrated like a 100 day Telugu movie by superstar fans association.

The logic has gotten very simple. No stones/protests/violence = No curfew and open comm lines. Nothing else matters. Public support is so firm behind this move that they can lock this thing for a year if needed. To all the shivering SDRE's, say with me, WE GOT THIS AND THERE IS NO GOING BACK.

[Yagnasri]

Once there is some normalcy and seat reorganisation is over there will be elections to J&K UT assembly. I am sure of it. NC and PDP neither can contest the elections nor can keep out of elections and make BJP as rulers of the state. I think in the end they will not participate in election.

[UlanBatori]

There must be some way to use Open Internet as a cockroach-trap. Right now the beauty is that the Pakis will try to infiltrate Jammu and Ladakh to conduct their Internet operations. And become easy to surround and capture/pest-e-sha'eed.
But if KV is opened to Internet then, yest, it becomes more difficult. Govt has now bought time until Oct. at SC. Since it eej Sub-Judice no one can talk about it. Maybe they will get an adjournment from October till march?

[Sumair]

Deleted.
ramana

[chetak]

^^^^^^^

something doesn't sit right with this guy

[ArjunPandit]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/indias-kas ... 1566990962
behind paywall..i think it is sheer sensationalism, probably driven by folks mentored by ilk of Sadanand dhume ...although vibhuti is with WSJ for almost a decade.

[VikramA]

did not know where ask this ques so asking it here. does any one know how to superimpose LOC on live google maps?

[A_Gupta]

^^^^^^^

something doesn't sit right with this guy

This is likely where that cr*p is coming from.
http://sikhlionz.com/vhprssbjp.htm