J&K Union Territory-2019

[Gerard]

Is it only 2? I thought the KV would be one all by itself so it can reduce itself to a pakistan. They are still allowed to drag Jammu down with them?

Why BJP Did Not Trifurcate Jammu and Kashmir

[Gerard]

ARTICLE 370 IS REALLY GONE!!! LADAKH IS FREED FROM ISLAMIC RULE!

talaq, talaq, talaq

and just like that 58.3% of the area of the former state removed in divorce proceedings. No alimony.

[UlanBatori]

^ (the previous post about why not trifurcate). Makes sense, as negative as the bissant is. The other narrative is that Jammu can conceivably go zooming forward in development - and population growth by influx of non-moos from rest of India. This will bring pressure on the Valley which can then choose between ghettoization or assimilation. The wealthy and productive citizens from the warmer, lower-level Jammu will move northwards for pleasure and then for profit. Best way to shift the demographics towards a more productive and sensible citizenry.

The fact to be faced is what Sheikh Abdullah drove home in his "Flames of The Chinar": that the KV moos will bellyache and agitate no matter who is ruling, and are genetically self-destructive. Trait of Hill People everywhere: hardy, obnoxious. They are not going to change to Gujaratis overnight. So they have to become a minority, for the place to progress. The majority has to have the danda in hand, to keep the terrorist inclinations of the minority also down. No other choice.

Which is why the assimilation has to be completed b4 POrK is assimilated. Until then it has to be kept reduced to a non-mans-land with frequent strikes on the terror camps (which is the whole of that region).

[Deans]

^ The other narrative is that Jammu can conceivably go zooming forward in development - and population growth by influx of non-moos from rest of India. This will bring pressure on the Valley which can then choose between ghettoization or assimilation. The wealthy and productive citizens from the warmer, lower-level Jammu will move northwards for pleasure and then for profit. Best way to shift the demographics towards a more productive and sensible citizenry.

The fact to be faced is what Sheikh Abdullah drove home in his "Flames of The Chinar": that the KV moos will bellyache and agitate no matter who is ruling, and are genetically self-destructive. Trait of Hill People everywhere: hardy, obnoxious. They are not going to change to Gujaratis overnight. So they have to become a minority, for the place to progress. The majority has to have the danda in hand, to keep the terrorist inclinations of the minority also down. No other choice.
.

KM's have a choice of becoming like POK or like the rest of India. The best way that we can influence that choie is why demonstrating better development - without throwing money at the problem. That goes against the narrative they have believed so far, which is that they are halfway to Azadi and if they agitate more, GOI will pamper them further.
I must disagree however with equating KM's with `all hill people'. Himachal is a good example of what Kashmir can be - far higher incomes and social indicators and a huge contribution to the armed forces. KM's aren't even hill people - they are valley people.

[Vikas]

In the long run, Jammu will get separated from K. The 2 regions are as different as chalk and cheese and nothing in common.
Kashmir has no future in the short run except for stone pelting, Govt jobs and doles. Long run would define who is in power in Delhi in a decade from now. Ultimate solution would lie in Demography, and till demographics favor stone palters and leeches, the problem will simmer forever.
Separating Jammu from KV would also localize the events of terrorism in and around Srinagar. Instead of hitting the core directly, destroy this edifice of terrorism and pseudo-secularism from the periphery. Kashmir in the end will be a puny UT landlocked from all sides with only tourism to boast of. How long the party would last for them.

PS: Happy Independence day to all Ladakhi friends.

[A_Gupta]

In the New Indian Express, Wajahat Habibullah opines:
J&K, the Union Territory: What now?
The Centre should restore democratic liberties to Kashmiris and ensure that the truncated region receives statehood soon.
http://www.newindianexpress.com/opinion ... 55005.html

It has been contended by no less than Prime Minister Narendra Modi that the state’s special status had impeded development. But with just around 12% below the poverty line, J&K should be the envy of states that are considered developed, including Gujarat.

The state enacted and successfully enforced the Big Landed Estates Abolition Act, 1950, under its first prime minister Sheikh Abdullah. Even the bitterest critic will concede this was the most progressive land reform effected anywhere in India. The law helped expropriate 4.5 lakh hectares of cultivable land held in excess of 22.75 acres (excluding orchards) from 9,000 absentee landlords and redistribute it among the landless peasantry. This is one of the main reasons for the low levels of poverty in Kashmir now. Under Abdullah, J&K was also the first to provide free education to all children up to high school. Today young men and women educated in Kashmir are leading contenders in all-India service exams. The Rhodes scholar of 2018 was a Kashmiri.

But by imposing a total lockdown in the state to back the tearing away of what was no more than a fig leaf, detaining those who had always been loyalists of the Indian state and participants in governments that had readily acted under the diktat of the Intelligence Bureau, the Union government has administered a mortal blow to any pretensions of democratic freedom in Kashmir. Srinagar’s cathedral mosque has been sealed, its compound fencing laced with concertina wire. But in Srinagar’s mohallas, neighbourhood mosques are a live conduit for communication in the absence of instruments such as simple cell phone messaging.

The UT of J&K will now be led into its future by youth, educated, talented and consumed with hatred, 12,000 of whom have been detained under the draconian Public Safety Act, to be held indefinitely in locations undisclosed even to their families, without trial, including juveniles as defined under India’s Juvenile Justice Act.

There has been no widespread violence but Kashmiris have responded with a totally silent but exhaustive shutdown of their own, with markets opening only early morning and late evening to allow homes to continue functioning.

To my mind, full statehood alone will get Kashmiri support, even if only tacitly from the separatists.

[A_Gupta]

https://www.dailyexcelsior.com/thousand ... -killings/
Thousands of labourers flee Kashmir after killings

Srinagar, Oct 30: Thousands of migrant labourers have fled Kashmir during past two weeks after the killing of 11 truckers and labourers in South Kashmir.

According to an official, there were around 50,000 non-Kashmiri labourers working here in mid October this year when the first trucker from Rajasthan was killed two weeks ago. The killing was followed by gunning down of a fruit merchant and then two more truckers that led to panic among non-Kashmiri labourers.
The official said that around 25,000 labourers have fled during last one week and last night’s killing of 5 West Bengali labourers have led to more panic and exodus of these workers.

[A_Gupta]

Moved to Ladakh thread.

[manjgu]

IMHO , as a UT J&K will not get as much financial aid as in the past ( in the long term). this will result in J&K youth having to seek oppurtunities outside J&K which will be a good thing. even now many kashmiris have set up businesses/working outside of J&K . the brother of my houseboat frnd owns a shop in dharamshala and works in goa during winters. i think the larger the economic bonds between J&K resident and outside states , the better it is . so abrogation is a step in the right direction, even though it will take time for things to change.

[Vikas]

^ Until now it has been a 1-way street where KM wanted whole of India to welcome them with open arms while they in turn would throw stones at any outsiders and bray if anyone tried to corner any economic opportunity.
I don't know about KV but Jammu and Ladakh will prosper without shackles of local KM rulers.

[Vikas]

In the New Indian Express, Wajahat Habibullah opines:
J&K, the Union Territory: What now?
The Centre should restore democratic liberties to Kashmiris and ensure that the truncated region receives statehood soon.
http://www.newindianexpress.com/opinion ... 55005.html

The state enacted and successfully enforced the Big Landed Estates Abolition Act, 1950, under its first prime minister Sheikh Abdullah. Even the bitterest critic will concede this was the most progressive land reform effected anywhere in India. The law helped expropriate 4.5 lakh hectares of cultivable land held in excess of 22.75 acres (excluding orchards) from 9,000 absentee landlords and redistribute it among the landless peasantry. This is one of the main reasons for the low levels of poverty in Kashmir now. separatists.

For those who do not know, This was the biggest fraud committed by Abdullah senior where Land from owners was forcibly taken away and redistributed among Muslims of the state in the garb of the new law. This was the first of many Islam-pasand actions of Muslims of Kashmir.
Anyone who would give out their land for tilling was considered absentee Landlord, land confiscated and handed over to Muslims. Many Hindu families were destroyed and reduced to poverty by such communal act.

[UlanBatori]

must disagree however with equating KM's with `all hill people'. Himachal is a good example of what Kashmir can be - far higher incomes and social indicators and a huge contribution to the armed forces. KM's aren't even hill people - they are valley people.

Good point. I was trying to be non-judgemental about the genetically implanted inclinations of the KV Muslims as declared by their own neta Sheikh Abdullah's autobiography - I was shocked to read that, but he didn't mince words. The "Peaceful Sufi" characterization by Christianne Amanpour was very very far off the mark, not just about Pakis in Muridke but KVMs as well. He called them absolutely lazy as well, which must be the Valley part.

I was thinking of the general love for "Revenuers" and other Govt reps and Regulations in the hills of Tennessee, W. Virginia, Montana, Idaho, California, the Balkans, and Mongolia, and reasoning that the realities of mountain existence was a contributor to that attitude.

Himachal is a very good example. Locals have profited but much of the development has come from lowlanders moving there plus the military vets deciding to stay, isn't that right?

[SSridhar]

Happened to see a report on NHK TV by its Delhi Correspondent, a certain Abhishek Dhulia. While saying that the situation was not what it was as claimed by GoI, this guy said Pakistan was providing 'moral & diplomatic' support to Kashmiris. He can't get himself around to mention about terrorism, but he freely criticizes Indian Govt. These cowards think that 'appearing neutral' involves criticizing India and absolving the terrorists and their supporters. What a moron!

[Bart S]

I have never come across this lady before and I don't know who she is, but her responses to questions on J&K and explanations were very impressive.

[Varoon Shekhar]

On discussion show after discussion show, Kashmiri Moslems and non-Kashmiris alike, keep on parroting the line that these terrorist attacks on labourers and truck drivers et al, are fully the responsibility of the "government". Meaning that it's the government's duty to protect the people of Kashmir, and so if people die in terrorist attacks, it's the government's negligence, intelligence failure or outright ineptitude.

What's interesting is nobody on the programmes makes the obvious retort that, duh, the Indian 'government' can't be everywhere, all the time, in every city, town and village in Kashmir. Terrorist attacks are the responsibility of the terrorist scum who commit them, period. Of course, there's considerable scope for improving intelligence and patrolling in all areas. But even then, you can't guarantee absolutely zero terrorism. It's so easy for these critics to hit out at the government, while simultaneously making a bland, indefinite condemnation of "all violence". All except the Islamic terrorists, with names of the groups, and Pakistan.

[Philip]

We now have to do two basic things.Get down to business of governance and step up anti- terror ops.

[UlanBatori]

I think this was the point of the MEU vijit. That to bring peace, POrK must be cooked. A few test shots have been fired already.

[Sachin]

On discussion show after discussion show, Kashmiri Moslems and non-Kashmiris alike, keep on parroting the line that these terrorist attacks on labourers and truck drivers et al, are fully the responsibility of the "government". Meaning that it's the government's duty to protect the people of Kashmir, and so if people die in terrorist attacks, it's the government's negligence, intelligence failure or outright ineptitude.

The sad joke is that the same logic did NOT apply when there were elected governments within J&K state (now not existing). No body asked such questions to Mehbooba Mufti or the Abdullahs what was the government doing then? The current attempt to blame the "government" on the terror attacks is just the usual "secular" gimmick to show that J&K state's balkanisation was a wrong move. The main stream media and "seculars" would do this till eternity.

[Kashi]

The sad joke is that the same logic did NOT apply when there were elected governments within J&K state (now not existing).

It did. The only difference being that the elected governments were called "Indian puppets" that the "people of Kashmir" had "wholly rejected".

I have to dig out the link, but didn't Tihar PC once said that stone-pelting and other unrest were "justified and understandable" because BJP was a part of the coalition in J&K and that was wholly "unacceptable" to the "Kashmiris".

The cold-blooded murder of migrant workers is just another iteration of "How's the Jaish?!" or the "56 inch" before that or "bhookha nanga hindoostan" before that and... you get the drift.

[CRamS]

^^^ Its even more sinister. Read today NYT crap on kids not going to school in J&K. The insinuation is that both Indian forces and 'militants' are guilty. In other words, the poor sooooo innocent KMs are being 'terrorized' by Indian army and 'militants' and 'both' should leave them alone. Translate further: KMs demand for 'azaadi' must be met. This is also pretty much the insinuation that disgusting Lutyenite woman with a silly Brit accent Radha Kumar was making.

But that said, Indian army has to do what it takes to see that killings of truck drivers and other poor blokes by Pakis and KM louts does not sky rocket. Only because, in the eyes of the f!king India haters (KMs, most westerners, Chincoms, 'seculars'), anything and everything will be blamed on India. There is simply no support to India or any sympathy on the savage Islamic terror that India is confronted with from this somewhat influential court of opinion. Even Kanwal Sibal, seasoned and erudite diplomat made this observation while supporting ModiJi's decision to allow that EU MEP delegation visit to the valley.

[Vikas]

The painful reality of life is that random people will get killed in Kashmir by terrorists. No govt can provide complete security. We need to accept it, find way to fix this and move on. As long as we can bring the number closer to zero while raising the number of pigs killed to 300-400, we are on the right track.
Yes it gives masala to lot many Paki-lovers to blame India but aren't they the same crowd which is crying hoarse over lack of telecom coverage in certain areas, consequences be damned.

[A_Gupta]

The “benefits” of “azaadi” are in clear view in Afghanistan. Keep hammering that in. (Pakistan too, but then any Indian statement of such is supposedly tainted with bias. )

[chetak]

The painful reality of life is that random people will get killed in Kashmir by terrorists. No govt can provide complete security. We need to accept it, find way to fix this and move on. As long as we can bring the number closer to zero while raising the number of pigs killed to 300-400, we are on the right track.
Yes it gives masala to lot many Paki-lovers to blame India but aren't they the same crowd which is crying hoarse over lack of telecom coverage in certain areas, consequences be damned.

this is a tactic by the pakis to prevent Indians from other states from coming into cashmere. They will play up the "outsiders coming to steal your land" meme.

Cashmere uses a lot of seasonal migrant labor for the harvest of the apple, walnut and other perishable crops and agricultural produce and these are the first targets both for effect as well as warnings to the local populace and the Indian public at large.

They will not touch the tourists for some time yet as they badly need the money.

With CAG and other auditing services now becoming eligible to operate in cashmere, post the 370 removal, the local politicians and baboo(n)s will not be able to so easily steal the money coming from the center.

One has to wait and see how the elected sarpanches work out. I suspect that a lot of them, on the quiet, are jehadi backed and controlled.

These sarpanch guys have been mightily energized by the promise of money directly coming into their grubby hands.

Time will tell, but knowing the character of these entitled types of taqiya jehadis, they are looking to clean up on the govt funds, just like the politicos were all doing earlier under the cover of 370.

BTW, many are crying hoarse over lack of telecom coverage in certain areas because the cellular communication channels and the internet are the mainstays of the jehadi networks and paki coordination and control.

[A_Gupta]

J&K to have own GST, common HC for both UTs; UPSC to serve Ladakh
https://www.dailyexcelsior.com/j-upsc-to-serve-ladakh/

A gazette notification approved by President Ram Nath Kovind said the Judges of the High Court of Jammu and Kashmir of the erstwhile State of J&K holding office will become Judges of the common High Court for the Union Territory of Jammu and Kashmir and Union Territory of Ladakh and all the provisions of the Constitution of India including provisions relating to appointment of Judges of the High Court will be applicable to the Judges of the common High Court.

“The Union Public Service Commission (UPSC), with the approval of President, will serve needs of the Union Territory of Ladakh. However, the UPSC will make recruitments only for Group “A” and Group “B” (Gazetted) posts,” the MHA order said.

It added that the Union Territory of Jammu and Kashmir, being a UT with Legislature, will have its own Goods and Services Tax whereas the Union Territory of Ladakh, being a UT without Legislature, will be governed by the Union Territory Goods and Services Act, 2017.

“Those Central Laws, Ordinance and Rules which are applicable to the whole of India except the erstwhile State of Jammu and Kashmir, will be made applicable to the Union Territories of Jammu and Kashmir and Ladakh,” the Order said, adding that certain Central Laws and Rules which were already applicable to erstwhile State of Jammu and Kashmir will remain in force in the two new Union Territories.
While the Legislative Council has been abolished, the reference to the State ‘Legislature shall be construed as the ‘Legislative Assembly of the Union Territory of Jammu and Kashmir’, the Centre order said. It may be mentioned here that the Centre has granted 90-seat Assembly to Jammu and Kashmir Union Territory while the UT of Ladakh hasn’t been granted the Assembly but its two districts of Leh and Kargil will continue to have Autonomous Hill Development Councils.

The Home Ministry also announced omission of “permanent residents or hereditary State Subjects”.

“… there are references in the State laws that have been applied to the Union Territory of Jammu and Kashmir, and the Union Territory of Ladakh to the expressions ‘permanent residents’ or ‘hereditary State Subjects’…, wherever they occur, shall be omitted,” it said.
The references, by whatever form of words, to the “State of Jammu and Kashmir” or “Jammu and Kashmir” or “State” shall from October 31 be construed as “Union Territory of Jammu and Kashmir” or “Union Territory of Ladakh”, as the case may be, it said.
Those who were residents of the princely State of Jammu and Kashmir at the time of the State’s merger with the Union of India and their descendants are called State Subjects and they used to get privileges over land and jobs in the erstwhile State of Jammu and Kashmir due to Article 370 and Article 35A.

[UlanBatori]

What does "own GST" mean? I thought the point of GST was One Nation One Baksheesh?

[mmasand]

What does "own GST" mean? I thought the point of GST was One Nation One Baksheesh?

4 different types of GST I know CGST (Central), IGST (Integrated), SGST(State levied), and UTGST(UT). Since J&K will have a legislature, SGST will be levied. The rates don't necessarily differ but the recipient and how the tax is levied and treated varies.

[vishvak]

We now have to do two basic things.Get down to business of governance and step up anti- terror ops.

Ladakh needs much more elaborate efforts (smart planning)
* State benefits only per family, not number of individuals
* No scope of paki long term relationship via cashmere by planning local level register ing and community level divisions making to avoid ghettos
So on

Long term views that can help India is the outline here.

[chetak]

twitter

Like bin Laden’s body, the U.S. dumps al-Baghdadi’s body in the sea. Contrast this with India’s practice of allowing public funerals for slain terrorists. This turns terrorists’ burial sites into jihadist shrines, making dead terrorists more potent than terrorists that are alive.

[CRamS]

German Chancellor in Delhi has issued a pretty strong statement on Kashmir on eve of her meeting with ModiJi. Now, of course this is DDM reporting, so can't be sure of the spin, but she is supposed to have said "Kashmir situation is not tenable and people's lives must be improved, and she wants to hear ModiJi's plan". I find it so thoroughly condescending. Similar statement from Alice Wells as well the other day.

Of course, in an ideal world, India could say f!ck off, take care of Syrian refugees first, and India would like to hear Merkel's plan. But SDRE India is too weak to play on such an even footing, but be that as it may, what all these busy body interference does is that it perpetuates the conflict India has with KMs. They are going to hold out under the illusion that outside world will deliver them 'azaadi'.

Also, as I said in my earlier post, killing innocent people, especially non J&K residents is a very high-value, zero cost option for TSP and separatist KMs. Everyone and sundry will blame India. India, and by India, I mean BJP govt and its nationalist base, simply has no friends when it comes to the reality of Kashmir.

The dominant theme is that India's 'repression' is leading to this 'violence' (note the politically correct narrative to describe terror by Pakis). And while India is being savaged, TSP will achieve its aim of scaring the shit out on non J&K residents to come on. So this is were Indian army must thwart TSP game plan or else nothing would have been achieved post 370. Its the same old wine in a new bottle.

Anybody, most of all our elite ass holes who think Kashmir is such a magic bullet that simply by releasing all the detained traitors like Farooq Abdullah, Mufti etc will solve the problem show their utter ignorance or more likely, they are partaking in the grand conspiracy by TSP and its friends to keep India from succeeding. One only needs to look under the hood to understand to the reality, but sadly for India, nobody who counts is willing to do so.

[CRamS]

twitter

Like bin Laden’s body, the U.S. dumps al-Baghdadi’s body in the sea. Contrast this with India’s practice of allowing public funerals for slain terrorists. This turns terrorists’ burial sites into jihadist shrines, making dead terrorists more potent than terrorists that are alive.

Forget that, just recall what US did to Iraqis, bombing to the stone age, debilitating sanctions hurting women and children, and destroying whole societies. And India is mercilessly badgered for denying Internet to prevent Muslims traitors from colluding with Pakis in gory acts of terror against the India to dismember J&K from India.

[UlanBatori]

Of course, in an ideal world, India could say f!ck off,

In a real world also, Indian govt should say the same. VERY poor form to say this, esp, in Delhi. I fault the Modi govt. for not sending her baggage to Tanzania. By container ship.
BUT... CRAMSji, isn't this a case of interpretation by undieTV? I too would agree with the statement that she actually made:

"As the situation at this moment (in Kashmir) is not sustainable and not good, this has to change for sure," Ms Merkel was quoted as having said by German sources.

That is correct, and that is exactly why the Indian govt has done what it has done. The present situation is one of living in fear of terrorist Pakistan. That does have to change. So why dh*-shi***, hain?
GOI should welcome German support for positive change. Indian troops cannot be standing around there: they should be freed to operate farm equipment sweeping across from Srinagar to Islamabad.

[ramana]

The painful reality of life is that random people will get killed in Kashmir by terrorists. No govt can provide complete security. We need to accept it, find way to fix this and move on. As long as we can bring the number closer to zero while raising the number of pigs killed to 300-400, we are on the right track.
Yes it gives masala to lot many Paki-lovers to blame India but aren't they the same crowd which is crying hoarse over lack of telecom coverage in certain areas, consequences be damned.

Since 1947 Pakistan has been waging asymmetric war on India over Kashmir. Other times when flush with external weapons they waged regular war twice and got beaten.

Now after Pulwama terror attack and Balakot retaliation, India has removed the disputed status of the issue.

All measures you see in combating asymmetric war from TSP backed by Liberal West.

As a first step in understanding the battle lines would like to line up TSP and its supporters of all hues.

CRS since you do a lot of DIDI watching I nominate you to start the process.

[Vayutuvan]

Separating Jammu from KV would also localize the events of terrorism in and around Srinagar. Instead of hitting the core directly, destroy this edifice of terrorism and pseudo-secularism from the periphery.

I think that is the plan. Bifurcation first, let that sink in, and then make Kashmir valley into a UT and the two UTs into two states. It is an incremental optional step to be executed if Kashmiri valley people remain intransigent. Salami slicing.

[UlanBatori]

No need to do any more cutting. KVstanis in the previous (pbuh) K&K were the Majority playing their usual game. Soon with "development", I think Jammu part will overtake the other in population, and there won't be this requirement that incoming workers/developers be One Community. Once they are minoritized, they will have to behave: they always do. Look at Gujarat. Model citizens. Patriots. Probably even allow tricolor to be hoisted in Godhra on Aug. 15 instead of green flag on Aug. 14. Hearts & minds have been won over by "development".

[A_Gupta]

The next round of “it isn’t normal”.
https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEB ... id=IN%3Aen

[A_Gupta]

India, Germany slam nations backing terror
https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEH ... id=IN%3Aen

[UlanBatori]

The next round of “it isn’t normal”.
https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEB ... id=IN%3Aen

LOOK for links to U. Cal Berkeley, Haas School of Business.

[UlanBatori]

India, Germany slam nations backing terror
https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEH ... id=IN%3Aen

So, CRAMSji, the UBCN reading of Merkel bb's comment was accurate. {yawn!} The dimbulbs are still reporting in shock like "but but but she said... "

[A_Gupta]

Merkel did say what was reported, pretty much.

https://twitter.com/dwnews/status/11903 ... 01377?s=21

[CRamS]

The next round of “it isn’t normal”.
https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEB ... id=IN%3Aen

LOOK for links to U. Cal Berkeley, Haas School of Business.

Indeed. And those pompous Hindu SDRE shit heads in that photo, if they think they are sooooo moralistic by p!ssing on Indian govt, they better think again. The likes of KMs demanding "azaadi" on whose behalf they are throwing these silly headline-grabbing tantrums will be the ones who will rape, eat, and slaughter them (Hindu SDREs). Just ask them to recall 1990s.