J&K Union Territory-2019

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A_Gupta
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby A_Gupta » 27 Nov 2019 13:48

https://www.dailyexcelsior.com/naked-da ... at-mirpur/
Every year November 25 is remembered as Mirpur Day. On this day in 1947 a curse descended on Mirpur, now in Pakistan occupied Kashmir. Out of a total 25,000 about 18,000 Hindus and Sikhs were killed and about 3,500 were wounded.
Soon after India’s independence a rebellion occurred in Poonch and Mirpur districts, and the Pakistan Army conceived a military plan to invade Jammu and Kashmir. The military campaign was code-named “Operation Gulmarg”, which was said to be assisted and guided by British military.

Before the Kashmir War in 1947, the Mirpur District had Hindus and Sikhs, comprised 20 percent of the population. A great majority of them lived in the principal towns of Mirpur, Kotli and Bhimber. Refugees from Jhelum in western Punjab had taken refuge in Mirpur town, causing the non-Muslim population to increase to 25,000.

During the War, raiders entered the city on the morning of November 25 and set several parts of the city on fire, causing chaos and turmoil across the city. Large-scale rioting took place. Of the minority population, only about 2,000 Hindus and 2,000 Sikh escaped to Jammu along with the state troops. The remainder were marched to Alibaig, where a Gurdwara was converted into a prison camp, but the raiders killed 10,000 of the captives along the way and abducted 5,000 women. Only about 5,000 made it to Ali Baig, but they continued to be killed at a gradual pace by the captors. Hindu and Sikh women were raped and abducted. Many women committed suicide by consuming poison before falling into the hands of the raiders, to avoid rape and abduction. Many men also committed suicide. The total death toll was over 20,000.

Temples and Gurdwaras were demolished, the aim of the Pakistan Army and raiders was to destroy and kill Hindus and Sikhs and bring the district to a clear Muslim majority area with ease. Local Muslims also played a dirty part in driving out the Sikhs and Hindus. RSS and other organizations helped as foot soldiers to bring back the remaining Sikhs and Hindus safely to Jammu. Today no Hindu or Sikh population has survived in this region, old temples and gurdwaras have been destroyed and the land has been grabbed to build homes and madarsas for the Muslims. Many areas named after Hindu saints and Sikh saints have been renamed.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby sivab » 27 Nov 2019 15:06

https://twitter.com/republic/status/1199571732664741896

Republic‏
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@republic
3h3 hours ago
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#ShahAtRepublicSummit | Plan of action and its time - I don't believe it should be openly discussed - as they're matters of security. At the right time, like Article 370, it should be executed: Union Home Minister @AmitShah at #RepublicSummit
https://republicworld.com/livetv.html


Watch the video. AS says PoK should be taken back just like 370. :lol:

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby pankajs » 27 Nov 2019 16:02

https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1199485190638202880
ANI @ANI

Satya Pal Malik,Governor of Goa: People who were elected democratically there (Jammu&Kashmir).Two generations earlier their grandfathers were school teachers but today they have houses in Srinagar,Delhi,Dubai, London&France. They also have partnerships in many hotels. 1/2 (26.11)

https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1199485339179470848
ANI @ANI
Satya Pal Malik, Governor of Goa: I have seen so much abuse of democracy. But it's cure is also available in democracy. Investigations are underway against them, some of them will go to prison. 2/2 (26.11)

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Vikas » 27 Nov 2019 16:48

pankajs wrote:https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1199485190638202880
ANI @ANI

Satya Pal Malik,Governor of Goa: People who were elected democratically there (Jammu&Kashmir).Two generations earlier their grandfathers were school teachers but today they have houses in Srinagar,Delhi,Dubai, London&France. They also have partnerships in many hotels. 1/2 (26.11)

https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1199485339179470848
ANI @ANI
Satya Pal Malik, Governor of Goa: I have seen so much abuse of democracy. But it's cure is also available in democracy. Investigations are underway against them, some of them will go to prison. 2/2 (26.11)


From personal experience, Almost whole of J&K is built on ill gotten money and corruption.
Cement bags meant for Salal hydro electric project was consumed by Engineers building independent houses in and around Jammu.
Junior teachers who would get posting in far flung places but would take tuition classes in Jammu city 25 out of 30 days.
The list in unending..

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J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Peregrine » 27 Nov 2019 18:03

X Posted on the Terroristan Thread

PM Imran denounces India's call for Israeli model in occupied Kashmir - News Desk

Prime Minister Imran Khan on Wednesday denounced India’s call for an “Israeli model” in occupied Kashmir, terming it a depiction of “the fascist mindset of the Indian govt’s RSS ideology that has continued the siege of IOJK for over 100 days”.

He also called out “powerful countries” for their silence over the gross human rights violation in occupied Kashmir because of their “own trading interests”.

Imran’s comments came in a tweet on Wednesday morning in which he linked a report by Middle East Eye on a senior Indian diplomat’s controversial remarks at an event in the United States.

As per the report, Sandeep Chakravorty, the Indian consul general in New York, told “Kashmiri Hindus [known as Kashmiri Pandits] and Indian nationals that New Delhi will build settlements modelled after Israel for the return of the Hindu population to Kashmir.”

He asked those present “to give the [Indian] government some time to implement its plans in the [occupied] valley”.

“I believe the security situation will improve, it will allow the refugees to go back, and in your lifetime, you will be able to go back … and you will be able to find security, because we already have a model in the world.

‘Is their humanity dead’, PM questions world’s silence on Indian atrocities in IOK

“I don’t know why we don’t follow it. It has happened in the Middle East. If the Israeli people can do it, we can also do it,” the report quoted Chakravorty as saying.

He also spoke against international condemnation and interference into the matter. “[The issue is) getting pulled into the [UN] Human Rights Council. It’s getting pulled into the US Congress.

“A delegation wants to go. But go to other places. Go to Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan. No one is talking about taking photos there. So why do they want to come to our place? They don’t like it now that we are now asserting ourselves,” Chakravorty was quoted as saying.

A return of the Hindu minority to Indian Occupied Kashmir has been one of the main premises for New Delhi’s move to scarp Articles 370 and Article 35A of the Indian Constitution, which barred outsiders from buying land in the occupied territory.

The Middle East Eye report described the event where the Indian diplomat spoke as “one of a number of events held at the behest of India’s right-wing government in its attempt to wrestle back control of the narrative in the face of the immense grassroots mobilisation against its actions in Kashmir.”

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby manjgu » 27 Nov 2019 20:07

Cement bags from dul hasti were similarly sold off by the locals and the French company who was building the dam quit the project after suffering huge losses. A fake kidnapping of its enginner was staged and the French on the pretext of insecurity excited the project.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby UlanBatori » 27 Nov 2019 21:28

Best encouragement that one could have got, on 11/26, 11th anniversary of MMS doing nothing to retaliate and bring the perps to justice, except for terrorist Imran Kasab, (Rot.I.Hell.)
The CGI (NY) ACTUALLY SAID THESE???? :eek:
Has the new CGI been announced? Or, fess up, CGI (NY) and Videsh Karyalay baaboonlog spending time on PeeAref? :mrgreen:
Last edited by UlanBatori on 27 Nov 2019 21:37, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby agupta » 27 Nov 2019 21:35

UlanBatori wrote:Best encouragement that one could have got, on 11/26, 11th anniversary of MMS doing nothing to retaliate and bring the perps to justice, except for terrorist Imran Kasab, (Rot.I.Hell.)
The CGI (NY) ACTUALLY SAID THESE???? :eek:
Has the new CGI been announced? Or, fess up, CGI (NY) and Videsh Karyalay baaboonlog spending time on PeeAref? :mrgreen:


Its not an accident... there's a new crop/generation of officers from "our" generation - who've seen J&K "evolve" with our peers growing up.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Cain Marko » 28 Nov 2019 00:52

Peregrine wrote:X Posted on the Terroristan Thread

PM Imran denounces India's call for Israeli model in occupied Kashmir - News Desk

Prime Minister Imran Khan on Wednesday denounced India’s call for an “Israeli model” in occupied Kashmir, terming it a depiction of “the fascist mindset of the Indian govt’s RSS ideology that has continued the siege of IOJK for over 100 days”.

He also called out “powerful countries” for their silence over the gross human rights violation in occupied Kashmir because of their “own trading interests”.

Imran’s comments came in a tweet on Wednesday morning in which he linked a report by Middle East Eye on a senior Indian diplomat’s controversial remarks at an event in the United States.

As per the report, Sandeep Chakravorty, the Indian consul general in New York, told “Kashmiri Hindus [known as Kashmiri Pandits] and Indian nationals that New Delhi will build settlements modelled after Israel for the return of the Hindu population to Kashmir.”

He asked those present “to give the [Indian] government some time to implement its plans in the [occupied] valley”.

“I believe the security situation will improve, it will allow the refugees to go back, and in your lifetime, you will be able to go back … and you will be able to find security, because we already have a model in the world.

‘Is their humanity dead’, PM questions world’s silence on Indian atrocities in IOK

“I don’t know why we don’t follow it. It has happened in the Middle East. If the Israeli people can do it, we can also do it,” the report quoted Chakravorty as saying.

He also spoke against international condemnation and interference into the matter. “[The issue is) getting pulled into the [UN] Human Rights Council. It’s getting pulled into the US Congress.

“A delegation wants to go. But go to other places. Go to Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan. No one is talking about taking photos there. So why do they want to come to our place? They don’t like it now that we are now asserting ourselves,” Chakravorty was quoted as saying.

A return of the Hindu minority to Indian Occupied Kashmir has been one of the main premises for New Delhi’s move to scarp Articles 370 and Article 35A of the Indian Constitution, which barred outsiders from buying land in the occupied territory.

The Middle East Eye report described the event where the Indian diplomat spoke as “one of a number of events held at the behest of India’s right-wing government in its attempt to wrestle back control of the narrative in the face of the immense grassroots mobilisation against its actions in Kashmir.”

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Did he actually say this. The Pakis are well known for posting rubbish. But if he did say this, I wonder why he would do so. We all know that the Israeli occupation is not well liked by many in the West, moreover the Israeli model has little in commonality with the Indian situation, strategically or morally. Kashmir and its Hindus are victims of egregious Pakistani aggression. This is not exactly the case with Israel. No need to equate with them. It is like frittering away India's moral high ground in this matter.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby UlanBatori » 28 Nov 2019 02:32

^^ That argument is too complex and would not play well in NYC. Stand up and yell "V DO NOT WANT 2 B EQUATED 2 ......" and you have committed soosai.
OTOH, the argument made by the CGI essentially sticks it right in the face of the NYT: Attacking India's JKL policy is == attacking Israel's efforts to ensure security. Brilliant. Beats the heck out of 100,000 Letters To The Editors in perfect King's Angreji with Terminological exactitude.

"Settlement" is not equal to "West Bank Settlements". All of Israel, particularly the kibbutzes, only survive(d) because the area was protected by trained men and women.. The danger of death, and far worse, was always there. Today there is relative peace precisely because massive retaliation is guaranteed for any attack.
At the start, like today in the KV, those who dared to stay there were **NOT** so powerful. In fact even in 1967 no one seemed to expect Israel to survive Gamal Abdel Nasser's threat to commit genocide.

Let's not repeat the Nehruvian era error of sticking our moralizing noses in the polluted air of Dilli saying "OUR case is not like YOUR case, WE are so PURE!"

The enemy is essentially the same. The danger is worse. The cure, therefore is something we can learn from those who have had to adopt the cure for survival.

The netas sitting in Dilli, and all the Lutyens and Baboon living in luxury with their ill-gotten riches, have survived all these decades **ONLY** because the villagers of the border areas, Indian citizens as much as Narenda Modi is an Indian citizen, have lived in danger every single second. As the CGI said (i HOPE he said that! Kudos to Pakis if they made that up!) I don't know and cannot explain, either, why India, 7 times as large as Pakistan, has allowed this &^%*( nonsense to go on for 70+ years.

Give Peace a Chance. Destroy Pakistan.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Cain Marko » 28 Nov 2019 04:00

^I think resettlements of KPs is a far better cause than Israel ever had wrt to Gaza or Palestine. The situation there is actually not comparable to the KP genocide and bringing Israel into the picture just hurts a true humanitarian cause by obufuscating the actual reality involved. Go ahead and do what is necessary just like in the case of 370 but no need to talk big and put one's foot in the kisser after having first shot it.

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J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Peregrine » 28 Nov 2019 05:08

Peregrine wrote:X Posted on the Terroristan Thread
PM Imran denounces India's call for Israeli model in occupied Kashmir - News Desk
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Cain Marko wrote:Did he actually say this. The Pakis are well known for posting rubbish. But if he did say this, I wonder why he would do so. We all know that the Israeli occupation is not well liked by many in the West, moreover the Israeli model has little in commonality with the Indian situation, strategically or morally. Kashmir and its Hindus are victims of egregious Pakistani aggression. This is not exactly the case with Israel. No need to equate with them. It is like frittering away India's moral high ground in this matter.
Cain Marko Ji :

Its from a Lebanese Rag : India consul general in United States calls for 'Israeli model' in Kashmir

It seems to have a couple of Terroristanis staff members!
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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Gerard » 28 Nov 2019 06:44

‘It has happened in the Middle East’: Row over Indian diplomat’s J&K remarks
In the video, Chakravorty, who spoke in a mixture of Hindi and English, is shown saying he would express some personal views and then give the “government’s position” on the issue of Jammu & Kashmir.


He described the government’s August 5 decision to revoke Jammu & Kashmir’s special status and to split the state into two Union territories as a “big international risk” that could have led to “international opprobrium”. He added that India had “successfully stalled” an “international diplomatic struggle” on the Kashmir issue and the Kashmiri Pandit refugees will be able to return with time.

“I believe the security conditions in Jammu & Kashmir will improve, it will allow the refugees to go back, and in your lifetime you will be able to go back and you will be able to visit your villages... and you will find security because we already have a model in the world,” he said.

“I don’t know why we don’t follow it. It has happened in the Middle East... if the Israeli people can do it, we can also do it. I think we should just follow from them and push our leadership. We have to push our leadership to do that, otherwise what is the benefit?” he added.


He further said: “Somebody spoke about the Jewish issue and the Israel issue. They kept their culture alive for 2,000 years outside their land and they went back. I think we all have to keep the Kashmiri culture alive. The Kashmiri culture is the Indian culture, it is the Hindu culture...”

Experts noted these remarks went against the Indian government’s official position that the situation in Kashmir cannot be compared to that in Palestine.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Cain Marko » 28 Nov 2019 07:01

Peregrine wrote:
Peregrine wrote:X Posted on the Terroristan Thread
PM Imran denounces India's call for Israeli model in occupied Kashmir - News Desk
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Cain Marko wrote:Did he actually say this. The Pakis are well known for posting rubbish. But if he did say this, I wonder why he would do so. We all know that the Israeli occupation is not well liked by many in the West, moreover the Israeli model has little in commonality with the Indian situation, strategically or morally. Kashmir and its Hindus are victims of egregious Pakistani aggression. This is not exactly the case with Israel. No need to equate with them. It is like frittering away India's moral high ground in this matter.
Cain Marko Ji :

Its from a Lebanese Rag : India consul general in United States calls for 'Israeli model' in Kashmir

It seems to have a couple of Terroristanis staff members!
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Peregrine Garu seems like there is a video going around... From the article Gerardji posted below yours.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby ShauryaT » 28 Nov 2019 08:50

Politically incorrect it maybe, but he said the right thing. A demographic change is the right solution here and the only workable one. Not just Israel, China has done the same to Xinjiang and Tibet. Definitely better than what the Europeans did in the Americas. In our case, we would be taking control of our own land and seek to decimate the two nation theory, which we have never accepted. I would argue it is the most just and workable solution to this vexed issue.

BTW: A fait accompli is how you do this. The US has just changed positions on Israeli settlements as not necessarily violative of international law. What it means is, Using the same principle, we could occupy say, Chitral? We should stop our pusillanimity and say what we desire and can make happen. Dreams are the first step to a future reality :)

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby UlanBatori » 28 Nov 2019 09:20

The difference is that this time the Hindus returning to Kashmir must be trained, armed and "loaded for bear" as they say.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby vishvak » 28 Nov 2019 09:40

Hopefully such an arrangement will factor in interference from all others, thereby freeing resources in future otherwise it will be just same thing again. Excuse s will be different.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Cain Marko » 28 Nov 2019 09:51

ShauryaT wrote:Politically incorrect it maybe, but he said the right thing. A demographic change is the right solution here and the only workable one. Not just Israel, China has done the same to Xinjiang and Tibet. Definitely better than what the Europeans did in the Americas. In our case, we would be taking control of our own land and seek to decimate the two nation theory, which we have never accepted. I would argue it is the most just and workable solution to this vexed issue.

BTW: A fait accompli is how you do this. The US has just changed positions on Israeli settlements as not necessarily violative of international law. What it means is, Using the same principle, we could occupy say, Chitral? We should stop our pusillanimity and say what we desire and can make happen. Dreams are the first step to a future reality :)

India can say what it wants to but suggesting that we are trying to follow the example of either China or Israel is a poor idea. Especially coming from a country which has for the longest time been such a patron of international law. No point squandering away all that hard earned reputation. And giving talking points to liberal fascists and pakis.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby dada » 28 Nov 2019 13:41

# ShauryaT
Relatively autonomous townships with CBSE schools complete with Compulsory NCC Training(Semi-Army Schools) is the way to go into the Kashmir Valley. First Begin with Ladakh & Jammu in a Big way. Every Soldier serving in JK must have his family living in JK in one of these autonomous townships. Keep the local kashmiris at the border of these townships for all business dealings. Entry must be strictly controlled. The townships can be made economically independent by promoting lodging-boarding for tourists.

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J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Peregrine » 28 Nov 2019 16:28

Peregrine wrote:Cain Marko Ji :

Its from a Lebanese Rag : India consul general in United States calls for 'Israeli model' in Kashmir

It seems to have a couple of Terroristanis staff members!
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Cain Marko wrote:Peregrine Garu seems like there is a video going around... From the article Gerardji posted below yours.
Cain Marko Ji :

AAP KI SEVA MEIN PRUSTOOT KARTAY HAIN :



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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby SriKumar » 28 Nov 2019 19:46

^^^ If the minute-long clip of statements by the diplomat in the above video is the sum total of the 'controversial remarks' then there is definitely some misunderstanding. All he said is that "the refugees will go back". And he said 'in your lifetime, you will be able to go back'. I see nothing controversial, incorrect or illiberal about this statement. It is all about righting a wrong; it is not specific to any Israeli model.

He is addressing people who were driven out under the threat of murder and rape (and in some cases raped and murdered, ref. Sunanda Vashist video). These people still own the title to the land and property that was forcibly taken from them. These are KAshmiris and have every right under any democratic/liberal tradition or political system to (i) return to their ancient land, (ii) have security after their return, and (iii) dare I say, compensation. His audience, as I understand it, were Kashmiris. Their plight is actually the same as that of Palestinians, not Israeli settlers, who were forcibly pushed out from their land to which they held their titles and now languish as refugees in Jordan, Lebanon etc. This might be a case of terminological inexactitude. It is surprising for a diplomat to have this confusion in his mind.

And if the implication by the diplomat was that people from rest of India can settle there, that is also clearly NOT the Israeli model. India has a specific legal system in place to purchase property and transfer property rights. It is not a case of going and forcibly occupying land at gun-point- which is what the terrorists did in 1991. A process will be followed that involves purchase and sale under established law. I call it the 'Win-Win desi bania model' where both the seller and the buyer benefit from the real estate transaction.

Added later:
Saw the video again. He said 'you will be able to go back to your villages'....he was clearly addressing Kashmiri Hindus. There is zero controversy about saying something like that. Even Kashmiri terrorists like Yasin Mailk have said that Hindus can come back. This diplomat said the same thing. His mistake was in calling it 'Israeli model'.
Last edited by SriKumar on 29 Nov 2019 00:13, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby vishvak » 28 Nov 2019 20:26

'in your lifetime, you will be able to go back'.

That's a while compared to genocide that has occurred already. He also says 'why can't we' .. etc. Surely taken out of context and ignoring past.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby UlanBatori » 28 Nov 2019 21:26

A pity. I think GOI should clearly come and say what was reported in Paki press. Yes, India has been Taking The High Road and the MOHAWG, and what the &&&&&& good has it done per NYT, CNN, Al Jazeera, Times of India, Hundistan Crimes, the Chindu, etc etc etc?

So I would interpret the statement as "OK, remember that we CAN..... and our people are asking why we DON'T..: It's not like we cannot cite precedent that is accepted by US, UK, NATO, etc if not UN.."

That should send some chills down Paki and CashMore spines. I don't think CGI cited China as example, but China's treatment of HK protestors (who are obviously supported by Seeayyeh types) and Xinjiang Muslims, is what should come to mind as what India CAN do it India chooses to.

So anyone who Feels Da Pain of the CashMoris should advise them to quit :(( and :evil: :evil: Before it is too late.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby SriKumar » 28 Nov 2019 22:03

My reference to China/Uighurs was in response to a post by ShauryaT who brought in the analogy. The CGI did not make any refence to China, and maybe I should edit my (twice-edited) post to avoid this confusion.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby UlanBatori » 28 Nov 2019 22:34

How the KV can be modernized

The 18-year-old was kidnapped and stabbed multiple times in August.

OF COURSE, being 400% Non-Violent, Panchsheelic, Gandian etc I am not recommending anything of the sort! :eek: But it's one way...
"Unfortunately, we cannot guarantee that there will be no more terror, but we must charge a heavy price to anyone who raises his hand against Israel's citizens. Jewish blood is not forsaken"


That's the other thing. No 20-year dragged-out case. Kill the terrorists, raze their nests. Put relatives and friends of the terrorists who don't want to stay and abide by the law, on the next container train to Pakjab. Via Rajasthan, Sindh and Balochistan.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby UlanBatori » 28 Nov 2019 22:40


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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby ShauryaT » 29 Nov 2019 02:17

SriKumar wrote:My reference to China/Uighurs was in response to a post by ShauryaT who brought in the analogy. The CGI did not make any refence to China, and maybe I should edit my (twice-edited) post to avoid this confusion.
Forget China. Kashmiri Hindus underwent a genocide in a democratic India, the shame of that act has to be avenged and this retribution should be in our lifetimes. The extent to which it would be just to force the issue is just short of doing the reverse to the muslim population of the valley.

The only reason I gave China as an example was there are nations, our neighbors who are getting away with murder and we out here are fretting about log kya kahenge?

Also, the CGI was clearly talking about Hindus as a "majority" asserting ourselves and not just Kashmiris. He further said, I feel as much a Kashmiri like anyone else. Let us give this speech the correct mileage and take it to its logical conclusion. A demographic change in Kashmir is inevitable. Let the world deal with it.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby ShauryaT » 29 Nov 2019 02:40

Also, a big fat shame on the NRI's here, myself included. In the state I live in saw a billboard advertisement against India on Kashmir, right on the main highway. NRI's please double up the effort to shut the Pakis out, on SM, MSM, with money and our numbers.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Rishirishi » 29 Nov 2019 03:28

ShauryaT wrote:Also, a big fat shame on the NRI's here, myself included. In the state I live in saw a billboard advertisement against India on Kashmir, right on the main highway. NRI's please double up the effort to shut the Pakis out, on SM, MSM, with money and our numbers.


They aslo did a demo our town. Hardly any bothered take notice. Nothing in the local news, no attention. Much of it is TSP/ISI sponsored. Even the Pakistanis do not really care.

Pakistanis are actually a bit puzled. If abolition of 370 was so bad, then the Kashmiris must have had many privlages. Most are actually surprised to know of the rights Kashmiris had. Then the next logical question that everyone will ask them self, but not say in public. What was the 70 year conflict with india about?

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby SriKumar » 29 Nov 2019 03:48

ShauryaT wrote:
SriKumar wrote:My reference to China/Uighurs was in response to a post by ShauryaT who brought in the analogy. The CGI did not make any refence to China, and maybe I should edit my (twice-edited) post to avoid this confusion.
Forget China. Kashmiri Hindus underwent a genocide in a democratic India, the shame of that act has to be avenged and this retribution should be in our lifetimes. The extent to which it would be just to force the issue is just short of doing the reverse to the muslim population of the valley.

The only reason I gave China as an example was there are nations, our neighbors who are getting away with murder and we out here are fretting about log kya kahenge?

Also, the CGI was clearly talking about Hindus as a "majority" asserting ourselves and not just Kashmiris. He further said, I feel as much a Kashmiri like anyone else. Let us give this speech the correct mileage and take it to its logical conclusion. A demographic change in Kashmir is inevitable. Let the world deal with it.
THe post is all over the place, assigning (unstated) positions to me, and to the CGI. Feel free to pursue your interpretation of what the diplomat said, I have no quibble. All I am saying is that GOI has done nothing *remotely* comparable to China actions in UIghur-land, in Kashmir, and in fact, it is the opposite ...i.e the Kashmiri Hindus are the aggrieved party and GOI has done not even 0.1% of what China did. The diplomat said a lot of things and it was about returning Kashmiris to Kashmir, quite specifically. Some statements were a bit more generic. If you want to read that as 'clearly.....making Hindus a majority', feel free.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby chetak » 29 Nov 2019 03:59

twitter

Classic example of cognitive dissonance: On one hand ask for Kashmir’s secession from Indian Republic at an LBGT pride parade. On the other hand, boast that gay sex is legal in Kashmir because of an order by Supreme Court of India, an institution of Indian Republic. Yey, genius!

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby UlanBatori » 29 Nov 2019 08:26

Rishirishi wrote:Pakistanis are actually a bit puzled. If abolition of 370 was so bad, then the Kashmiris must have had many privlages. Most are actually surprised to know of the rights Kashmiris had. Then the next logical question that everyone will ask them self, but not say in public. What was the 70 year conflict with india about?


Surely that's not how a 400% Paki would think? More like
How can I get the same rights that (Io)Kashmiris had?


This is Dimran's real existential problem. With Nawaz S. heading out one way to the West or out of the dunia, the Prime Ministerial pre-hanging suite is open at Attock military prison.


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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby ShauryaT » 29 Nov 2019 10:02

SriKumar wrote:THe post is all over the place, assigning (unstated) positions to me, and to the CGI. Feel free to pursue your interpretation of what the diplomat said, I have no quibble. All I am saying is that GOI has done nothing *remotely* comparable to China actions in UIghur-land, in Kashmir, and in fact, it is the opposite ...i.e the Kashmiri Hindus are the aggrieved party and GOI has done not even 0.1% of what China did. The diplomat said a lot of things and it was about returning Kashmiris to Kashmir, quite specifically. Some statements were a bit more generic. If you want to read that as 'clearly.....making Hindus a majority', feel free.


I am not assigning any positions to you. Also, the CGI is a diplomat. Even if one catches his tongue with prongs, the guy will not say what we want him to! To me kudos that he referenced the jews and Israel as a testament to their tenacity and will. Kudos that he stated that Kashmiri culture is Hindu culture.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby SriKumar » 29 Nov 2019 20:46

ShauryaT wrote:
SriKumar wrote:THe post is all over the place, assigning (unstated) positions to me, and to the CGI. Feel free to pursue your interpretation of what the diplomat said, I have no quibble. All I am saying is that GOI has done nothing *remotely* comparable to China actions in UIghur-land, in Kashmir, and in fact, it is the opposite ...i.e the Kashmiri Hindus are the aggrieved party and GOI has done not even 0.1% of what China did. The diplomat said a lot of things and it was about returning Kashmiris to Kashmir, quite specifically. Some statements were a bit more generic. If you want to read that as 'clearly.....making Hindus a majority', feel free.


I am not assigning any positions to you. Also, the CGI is a diplomat. Even if one catches his tongue with prongs, the guy will not say what we want him to! To me kudos that he referenced the jews and Israel as a testament to their tenacity and will. Kudos that he stated that Kashmiri culture is Hindu culture.
I do not see any benefit in linking it with the Israeli situation. The downside is that it causes needles controversy which is a distraction from the diplomatic tasks at hand. Clearly, the GOI can do whatever it wants (and more) on the ground, without having to reference up other countries with problems that have some similarity. The implication is that similar tactics and methods could be used to solve it- which may or- more likely- may not be true. India has more options. (To my mind, the bigger issue is how can security be provided to Hindus if the governments change after some time, and a new dispensation has a different perspective).

This seemed to be an informal gathering...his mode of speech and cadence reflected this. So I am not sure that this reflects some change in an official position of the GOI. So I would not give it the same weightage as a public statement. There might be an element of chaankiaan-ness, possibly. And finally, yes, Hinduism is a part of Kashmiri culture- a historical reality that is undeniable. Hindus, and their culture, were ethnically cleansed out of that region and any official sources stating this point is, to my mind, the truth, and hence non-controversial.
My last on this.


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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby UlanBatori » 02 Dec 2019 04:27

Part2 of that:
Le Neuj Bojitive de Les Poliz Oiropeanne
Oiropean Police are SOOOOOO HyoooManEater-ian in dealing with old folks!
WATCH Frogistani riot polis knock down elderly woman… during rally for 80yo who died after getting hit by tear gas grenade


Apparently Le Morale de Finest les Francaise is down deeper than that of Inspecteur Clouseau and his Superior The Chief Inspector.
Zineb Redouane. A resident of the city and of Algerian origins, she died in hospital last December at the age of 80 – a day after she was hit in the face by a tear gas grenade, launched by riot police during a turbulent Yellow Vests rally

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby UlanBatori » 02 Dec 2019 07:39

From "The Print"

Modi govt set to turn Mughal Road connecting Jammu to Kashmir into an all-weather route
The Mughal road now operates only in the summer months. The tunnel will make it a yearlong route and reduce the traffic pressure on the Srinagar-Jammu national highway.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby UlanBatori » 02 Dec 2019 19:19

Cross-posting: The Stark Contrast between the Cruel Oppression in "Indian Kashmir" and the Freedom of Expression in the Land of the Pure & Peaceful

Musharraf to be in company of La-Houris

Pakistani police charge hundreds of protesters with treason
Pakistan’s police say it has charged around 300 students and activists with sedition for making insulting remarks against its military, at a protest that was held to demand the lifting of a ban on political activity at universities


This time they are not waiting like they did with Lal Masjid. The Polis decided to have the fun before the PA took them away.

Pakistan’s police say it has charged hundreds of students and activists with sedition for making insulting remarks against its military :shock: at a protest demanding the lifting of a ban on political activity at universities.

Sunday’s move by police in the city of Lahore to pursue treason cases against the demonstrators came hours before a tweet from Prime Minister Imran Khan suggesting he would end the 1984 ban on student unions.

Amnesty International condemned the move in a statement Sunday. It asked Pakistan to drop any charges and release those arrested following Friday’s rally in Lahore.

Police said the protesters had chanted against “state institutions,” a term referring to the country’s powerful military. They said the rally was attended by between 250 and 300 people, all of whom would be charged.

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Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Postby Sanju » 04 Dec 2019 09:08

Twitter

Former Ambassador to the US Ashraf Qazi: Pakistan should use nuclear weapons to provide cover for jihad in Kashmir


And the article by Despo Ashraf Jehangir Qazi (ex Pamby to Ind, US & China)

Whatever it takes

THE Indian lockdown of nine million Muslims in the Kashmir Valley is a third of a year old. Has India made a ‘major strategic blunder’ or has it pulled off a major fait accompli? In other words, is there a greater likelihood of India having to reverse its Aug 5 decision or is it effectively irreversible despite Pakistan’s vigorous diplomacy and the unprecedented international criticisms of India’s action?

This depends on (i) the durability of the Kashmiri resistance in India-held Kashmir under extreme Indian repression including the comprehensive and relentless targeting of the civilian population of the Valley; (ii) whether any significant political opposition to Modi’s Aug 5 decision develops in India; (iii) the response of the international community — particularly the major powers and especially the US — to the hideous human rights situation in the Valley which threatens to reach genocidal proportions as defined by the Genocide Convention of 1948; and (iv) the response of Pakistan to such a scenario which Genocide Watch says is already under way. Just read Arundhati Roy to know the monstrosity India is becoming under Modi!

The current assumptions and indications suggest:

the Kashmiri resistance cannot be eliminated short of genocidal measures against the people of the Valley who regard and support the resistance as their own;


(ii) there is no prospect of any politically significant opposition in India to Modi’s decision of Aug 5;

(iii) the international community may condemn, embarrass and annoy India because of its atrocities, but it will not halt and reverse the trend towards genocide because the major powers see Kashmir in the context of a much larger Eurasian struggle in which India strategically counts for more than Pakistan; and

(iv) apart from bellicose statements and some heating up of the Line of Control, Pakistan will by and large avoid military confrontation with India even if a full-blown genocide develops. Instead, it will intensify its diplomatic campaign in the hope of arousing the conscience of the international community sufficiently for it to take effective measures to restrain India.

Aug 5 has transformed Kashmir from a longer-term diplomatic challenge to an existential challenge for Pakistan.

Inside Pakistan, the government will be primarily concerned to pacify its own public opinion and counter charges of a dishonourable and shameful betrayal of the Kashmir cause which could seriously destabilise the country. It will be reduced to saving Azad Jammu & Kashmir, Gilgit-Baltistan and Pakistan itself from further Indian designs. India will massively interfere in AJK and GB to force a final settlement along or even beyond the LoC with the understanding if not approval of the US and the Western powers. China will provide diplomatic support to Pakistan while counselling ‘moderation’, the need to adopt a longer-term perspective on Kashmir, and ensuring continued territorial contiguity between Pakistan and China.

Inside IHK, India will seek to wipe out the entire Muslim leadership, or strike a deal with the previous puppet Muslim leadership, or craft a new puppet Muslim leadership, possibly with people like Muzzafar Baig and Altaf Bukhari, who may be persuaded to accept the fig leaf of a hollow restoration of Article 370 as a final settlement. The All Parties Hurriyat Conference will be targeted for liquidation. No matter how outrageous the human rights situation in Kashmir gets, the major powers, including China, will not tolerate the prospect of nuclear conflict.

Pakistan has described Kashmir as its ‘jugular vein’ without which it is incomplete and cannot survive. It has pledged its last breath and drop of blood in defence of the Kashmiri people. It has always said any stoppage of Pakistan’s waters would be a casus belli. Moreover, in the name of the freedom struggle or jihad for Kashmir the people of Pakistan have had to live in a security rather than development state. This has deprived them of the benefits of democracy, good governance, peace and development. The results of this political degeneration are today evident in the wretched daily news every day.

The honest choice before the prime minister of Pakistan is stark: either he tells the nation that the costs of stopping India from perpetrating genocide in the Valley are more than Pakistan can bear and, therefore, he has no option but to ‘accept the unacceptable’ for Pakistan to survive. Or he asserts that the costs of a disgraceful betrayal of the Kashmir cause, especially after the loss of the majority of Pakistan’s population in 1971, will render the country a failed state without meaning, purpose, a moral foundation and a future worth having. Accordingly, while he is ready to go the extra mile for peace with India and to negotiate an acceptable, just and principled Kashmir settlement, he will never countenance genocide in Kashmir no matter what the cost may be.

For such resolve to be credible it must also be part of a comprehensive national transformation of Pakistan from an elitist, corrupt and incoherent state that, despite its verbal jihad, is unwilling and unable to take any risks for any cause, to a functioning democratic, development and human rights state that is able to develop options and take risks to ensure freedom and justice for Kashmir and to chart a course for peaceful coexistence with India. Progress towards such a national transformation will itself generate the narratives and project the images required for the views of Pakistan, regarding the plight of the Kashmiris, to register internationally.

There are no risk-free options to stop genocide, save Kashmir, and avoid war with India. Pakistan’s nuclear deterrent is meant to deter war not pursue war. But if the people of the Valley are threatened with genocide, as indeed they are, Pakistan’s deterrent must cover them. If this is rejected as wishful thinking there will be both genocide in the Valley and a slide towards war between India and Pakistan.

Aug 5, 2019 has transformed Kashmir from a longer-term diplomatic challenge to an existential challenge for Pakistan. Modi’s ‘Anschluss’ does not allow for incremental strategies. The prime minister must now do whatever it takes to ensure Pakistan no longer remains an irresolute and self-imprisoned soft state that surrenders its raison d’être.

The writer is a former ambassador to the US, India and China and head of UN missions in Iraq and Sudan.

ashrafjqazi@gmail.com

http://www.ashrafjqazi.com

Published in Dawn, December 2nd, 2019



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