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J&K Union Territory-2019

Posted: 09 Aug 2019 10:52
by arshyam
Opening per ramana sir's request.

Continuing from the previous J&K State thread: viewtopic.php?p=2370691#p2370691

Will add some introductory content in the evening, please fill in the meantime if anyone else has the time.

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Posted: 09 Aug 2019 11:29
by A_Gupta

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Posted: 09 Aug 2019 11:48
by syam
Next step should be making gilgit baltistan as a seperate UT. It will be perfect. And we can add remaining PoK to J&k .

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Posted: 09 Aug 2019 12:11
by srin
syam wrote:Next step should be making gilgit baltistan as a seperate UT. It will be perfect. And we can add Azad to J&k .


What is this Azad ? We shouldn't be using Baki propaganda language.

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Posted: 09 Aug 2019 12:14
by nandakumar
Mint has a piece by Hasseb Drabu on Kashmir. His contention is J&K is well developed compared to so many other States. So the argument that abolition of Article 370 is needed for economic development is wrong.

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Posted: 09 Aug 2019 13:25
by syam
srin wrote: We shouldn't be using Baki propaganda language.

I was referring to the map in previous post. edited the post. :)

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Posted: 09 Aug 2019 14:30
by ArjunPandit
can we edit the maps that show the entire kashmir valley and jammu as one UT, along with other indian UTs e.g., GB and Ladakh

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Posted: 09 Aug 2019 14:33
by yensoy
nandakumar wrote:Mint has a piece by Hasseb Drabu on Kashmir. His contention is J&K is well developed compared to so many other States. So the argument that abolition of Article 370 is needed for economic development is wrong.


Yeah, with a ton of GoI funds pumped in, and almost zero taxation. Were it not for the handouts, they would be piss poor like Nepal (apologies to Nepali brothers, just an observation not judgment).

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Posted: 09 Aug 2019 15:19
by UlanBatori
srin wrote:What is this Azad ? We shouldn't be using Baki propaganda language.

Of course we should be:
Azad Balwaristan. Azad Baluchistan. Azad Pakhtoonistan. Azad Sindh

Please consider using these in any future maps. Different terminology applies for Patinjare Ladakh, Vadakkan Arunachal etc

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Posted: 09 Aug 2019 15:22
by UlanBatori
The UN advice to
Jeet lo man ko
Path kar Shimla..

is particularly cutting. Someone should go dig it up: AFAIK Bhutto make Solom Bromij never to mention Kash.. again. I didn't think the UN had even read it. :((

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Posted: 09 Aug 2019 15:25
by Yagnasri
First we need to look at the subsidies people are getting as on today. What is the price or rice, wheat and so on in J&K? We need to get the details.

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 506264.ece

https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-subs ... from-India

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Posted: 09 Aug 2019 15:30
by UlanBatori
OK! Match is on. Rules relaxed, schools re-open, Doval visits downtown Srinagar.
I have a feeling that quite a few have gone on vacation and Infrastructure Skills Training to UP, Arunachal, etc. Maybe to Gujarat. :mrgreen:
With Dovalji & Co. there, I doubt whether those pictures of polis standing around relaxing with guns pointed down, was all that they used the past 4 days for.

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Posted: 09 Aug 2019 15:34
by UlanBatori

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Posted: 09 Aug 2019 15:35
by pankajs
UlanBatori wrote:Where is Kathua? Jammu I presume? There is an Indian flag above the school door, can't be KV. Yet.

Hindu majority like 90% +
Not a surprise.

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Posted: 09 Aug 2019 15:38
by UlanBatori
From same source as above: Srinagar streets teeming with activity first time since Sunday as Centre relaxes curfew for Friday prayers.
Brave of Shri Doval. I presume that they don't have buses in Srinagar on Fridin afternoon, unlike Bengaluru?

Now that I look at the Srinagar pic, clear that every one is a raa agint. 8)

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Posted: 09 Aug 2019 15:42
by UlanBatori
Education in Kashmir JNU is certainly not lagging: it is on par with Pakistan

Aejaz Ahmad Rather, Jawaharlal Nehru Students' Union general secretary said, "They are saying that it has been done with an agenda to bring development. But according to figures, Gujarat is lacking in development as opposed to Jammu and Kashmir in many indices".


Fact: KV has more soosai bummers per (de)capita than any nation except Bilayat.

And if u wondered why Sitaram Yechury was stopped at the airport:

A Delhi-based university student from Jammu, said, she thought the revoking of the article and its repercussions are debatable, but the way in which it was scrapped is "extremely undemocratic".
"Besides, the environmental impact on the state of such a move would be catastrophic. Moreover, if this is seen as a gateway to development, it would only be beneficial to the capital-owning bourgeoisie, who can buy land and open up their businesses, and would not really benefit the common masses. The gap between the rich and the poor would increase," she alleged.

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Posted: 09 Aug 2019 15:49
by nandakumar
yensoy wrote:
nandakumar wrote:Mint has a piece by Hasseb Drabu on Kashmir. His contention is J&K is well developed compared to so many other States. So the argument that abolition of Article 370 is needed for economic development is wrong.


Yeah, with a ton of GoI funds pumped in, and almost zero taxation. Were it not for the handouts, they would be piss poor like Nepal (apologies to Nepali brothers, just an observation not judgment).

True. The amount of money pumped in should have put Kashmir on par with Switzerland. Here they are reduced to saying "look we are better than Bihar".

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Posted: 09 Aug 2019 15:53
by UlanBatori
ramanaji, And NOW it comes!!
(Firstpost.com)

Indian Navy puts all warships, naval bases on high alert
Indian Navy has put all its bases and warships on high alert. Measures taken after Article 370 was revoked by the government and also due to possibility of Pakistan-backed terrorists carrying out any attack


There is no truth to the rumor that pictures of Karachi waterfront towers owned by Pakistani generals, are being mass-printed and distributed to IN gunners and missile-targeters.

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Posted: 09 Aug 2019 16:00
by syam
After all Karachi is the safest place on earth right now. :P

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Posted: 09 Aug 2019 16:07
by pankajs
Never for a moment underestimate the bakiness of the bakis. They have worked to destroy their society, their country and their future just to revenge the "fall of Dakha".

Thought the current situation is not similar to 1971, the way they have been outplayed and made to look like fools now would be equally painful. It is very likely that they will take the same line on Kashmir and make some play to revenge loss of H&D.

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Posted: 09 Aug 2019 17:42
by UlanBatori
Per Al Jazeera, which I am not going to cite with link here, protestors (translation: stone-throwers) are chased into houses, softened up pacified and taken away. Also pellet-guns and tear gas used of course, to target innocent sweet children going about their usual bissful stone-throwing.

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Posted: 09 Aug 2019 17:51
by UlanBatori
Kashmir News LIVE Updates: Section 144 withdrawn from Jammu municipal limits; schools, colleges to reopen tomorrow

Meanwhile, BBC is hopeful:
Saw some stone-throwers. In the past, violence has followed Fridin Brayers

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Posted: 09 Aug 2019 18:55
by Dileep
Corrected the map. We can't have paki name on BRF! Source attributed to mapsofindia. Posted under fair use principle onlee.

Image

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Posted: 09 Aug 2019 19:18
by KJo
syam wrote:Next step should be making gilgit baltistan as a seperate UT. It will be perfect. And we can add remaining PoK to J&k .


While I would love for the land of PORK (formerly called PoK) to integrate back into Bharat, I am worried about the fallout too. Keeping aside the challenge of actually taking it over, we will be saddled with lakhs of paki-ised Peacefools who are full of hate for Hindus and other varieties of Kafirs. They will now gain citizenship to India and have a free rein to travel all over to cause their usual trouble.

How do we handle this?

My other question is why wasn't Jammu separated from Kashmir and the entire state made into 3 UTs? Jammu is mostly peaceful so the focus for cleanup would be Kashmir UT.

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Posted: 09 Aug 2019 19:46
by yensoy
KJo wrote:My other question is why wasn't Jammu separated from Kashmir and the entire state made into 3 UTs? Jammu is mostly peaceful so the focus for cleanup would be Kashmir UT.


To keep Kashmir in check, of course. Once the reallocation of seats is done, and Jammu gets more seats assigned to them, expect to see the political clout of Kashmiris come down to realistic (in terms of population) levels. J&K bifurcation could have also had other ramifications.

Ladakh, OTOH, was all goodness - UTization was always called for; it would be nearly impossible to argue against it (and impossible now with JTN's eloquent LS testimony).

They did the minimum necessary to further the national goals. Kudos.

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Posted: 09 Aug 2019 19:50
by shravanp
Lets worry about the aftermath, and normalizing if existing Kashmir valley. I see folks talking about Pok, Aksai Chin and Balochistan " the Mudi sud get them all" type of requests, but I am quite nervous about BIF closing on this opportunity to create further ruckus. Hopefully new laws should prevent that, but still KM majority region can be restive. That needs to be quelled brutally especially if the mosques/masjids revert back to their old ways of spewing venom on Fridin brayers. Lets see how things shape up. Lets digest the meal in peacemeal fashion

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Posted: 09 Aug 2019 19:55
by srin
As someone mentioned above, taking over GB should be the highest priority. PORK can come later. GB has lesser population, and we can also disconnect Bakistan from the Cheen and also establish direct connection with Afghanistan and hence Central Asia.

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Posted: 09 Aug 2019 20:07
by Supratik
KJo, the population of GB and AJK has a lot of settlers from Pak Punjab and NWFP pushed in by their army. Real population will be much less. Once it comes under Indian control we can ask all settlers to leave using a NRC update like excercise.

IMO another shocker is coming. IMO, the population of J&K cannot be what it is stated as with the kind of TFR they have since census was reinitiated in 2001 you cannot have that kind of growth in population. I will not be surprised if the M and non-M pop is 60:40 or 55:45. This is corroborated by the fact that the average number of voters in Kashmir assembly constituencies is much less than in Jammu. The PDP/NC, etc claim it is because of people not registering to vote but I think even then actual pop may be 15-20% less. We will find out once the national NRC and Adhaar are introduced in J&K. We will get an indication when the delimitation happens.

Next couple of years are needed to stabilize the new J&K UT. Unless Pak does some mischief before that we have to think of ways to make a move on AJK and GB which is now legally Indian territory. But my guess is Pak will give India the opportunity just like Balakot.

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Posted: 09 Aug 2019 20:10
by UlanBatori
I do complain, though, about a picture I saw: "Lockdown left trucks stranded on the Jammu-Srinagar highway". Isn't that a bit too much paki? Who is the administrator under whose jurisdiction that happened? Why not send the trucks back to wherever they can rest in a parking lot, not blocking the road? Arent' the drivers human, let alone Indians?

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Posted: 09 Aug 2019 20:11
by UlanBatori
What happened after Fridin prayers? Clearly, nothing because it is long after that now. OK, EconCrimes has a report: minor stone-offerings by Sopore Mango-Downing Team, but promptly dealt-with. ***NOTHING*** more to report. :(( :((

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Posted: 09 Aug 2019 20:28
by yensoy
UlanBatori wrote:What happened after Fridin prayers? Clearly, nothing because it is long after that now. OK, EconCrimes has a report: minor stone-offerings by Sopore Mango-Downing Team, but promptly dealt-with. ***NOTHING*** more to report. :(( :((


Evidently the big mosque was closed and the small ones open, enabling prayers to happen in a distributed peer-to-peer fashion instead of on a central server https://www.dawn.com/news/1498954/indian-forces-on-high-alert-after-kashmir-friday-prayers. I am sure we are learning fast from the Chinese in these matters. Next will be declaring downtown Srinagar an earthquake hazard and resettling everyone in multistorey units outside the city like the Chinese did in Kashgar https://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/06/world/asia/china-remodels-an-ancient-silk-road-city-and-an-ethnic-rift-widens.html. Sorry for the napak links.

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Posted: 09 Aug 2019 21:39
by UlanBatori
More vacations to Taj Mahal
20 more 'troublemakers' shifted from Kashmir to Agra
The Jammu and Kashmir authorities airlifted a fresh batch of 20 "potential troublemakers" from Srinagar to Agra, officials told PTI on Friday.

The people, who have a history of being involved in separatist activities, were taken out of Kashmir in a special Indian Air Force plane, they said. They are alleged to be active members of separatist groups in Kashmir.

They were taken in a special IAF plane to Uttar Pradesh and lodged in Agra Central Jail. This comes a day after the authorities airlifted about 25 to 70 people as a precautionary measure in the wake of constitutional changes made by the government.


Do they use those cargo nets like the US C130s "renditioning" direct from Bagaram AFB to Guano Bay?

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Posted: 09 Aug 2019 21:49
by KL Dubey
UlanBatori wrote:More vacations to Taj Mahal
20 more 'troublemakers' shifted from Kashmir to Agra
The Jammu and Kashmir authorities airlifted a fresh batch of 20 "potential troublemakers" from Srinagar to Agra, officials told PTI on Friday.

The people, who have a history of being involved in separatist activities, were taken out of Kashmir in a special Indian Air Force plane, they said. They are alleged to be active members of separatist groups in Kashmir.

They were taken in a special IAF plane to Uttar Pradesh and lodged in Agra Central Jail. This comes a day after the authorities airlifted about 25 to 70 people as a precautionary measure in the wake of constitutional changes made by the government.


Do they use those cargo nets like the US C130s "renditioning" direct from Bagaram AFB to Guano Bay?


All these rascals have together accumulated tens of thousands of crores/billions of dollars in assets by siphoning off GoI money and also getting money from external forces.

To recover all costs of maintaining these freeloaders over the years (security cover et al) and to pay the costs of their house arrests/transfers outside J&K, I would strongly urge Amit Shah to attach and transfer all their assets into the J& K UT treasury.

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Posted: 09 Aug 2019 21:55
by Anujan
We should pass a law that property of even "reformed" terrorists should be attached to pay compensation for the victims.

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Posted: 09 Aug 2019 22:00
by UlanBatori
Oh! Now the Raa agints have their hands full: listening in on thousands of conversations ISI-KV;
Phone Services, Internet Partially Restored, Sitaram Yechury Detained At Srinagar Airport
Over 300 political leaders, including former chief ministers Mehbooba Mufti and Omar Abdullah, remain in custody.

Also: Scenes of normalcy, support for end of 370

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Posted: 09 Aug 2019 22:10
by A_Gupta
nandakumar wrote:Mint has a piece by Hasseb Drabu on Kashmir. His contention is J&K is well developed compared to so many other States. So the argument that abolition of Article 370 is needed for economic development is wrong.


Quote: Have this fact-Checked. Kashmir contribute roughly 0.63% to entire GDP, has 1% of the whole population but receives around 10% of Central Funds!

Then you have some retards lecturing on Kashmir doing better on specific Socio-Economic Indicators than Hindi-Belt.

By Rohit Kumar Jha @blackholesmerge

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Posted: 09 Aug 2019 22:20
by A_Gupta
KJo wrote:My other question is why wasn't Jammu separated from Kashmir and the entire state made into 3 UTs? Jammu is mostly peaceful so the focus for cleanup would be Kashmir UT.


IMO, one of the reasons was not to make the division by religion, because that is Two Nation Theory after all.
Second, the people first most likely to move into Kashmir are in Jammu; many of the Kashmiri Pandits are in Jammu, I think. Perhaps best if J&K are in one admin unit.
Third, much anti-India mischief is feasible if K valley is on its own.

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Posted: 09 Aug 2019 22:25
by A_Gupta
Jammu and Kashmir Budget Analysis 2018-19
http://www.prsindia.org/parliamenttrack ... is-2018-19

Industrial Development & Economic Growth In Jammu & Kashmir
https://www.ibef.org/states/jammu-and-k ... esentation

Perhaps there is sufficient data to understand J&K economics and see how the new UT will fare.

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Posted: 09 Aug 2019 22:27
by Sachin
President Kovind gives assent to Jammu and Kashmir bifurcation, two UTs to come into existence on October 31
I think there would be more drama-bazi till the end of October. But just like in the case of De.Mo this too will pass.

Re: J&K Union Territory-2019

Posted: 10 Aug 2019 02:17
by UlanBatori
What do they mean "come into existence October 31". So what happens from now till then? President's rule for State of J&K?