Ladakh Union Territory- 2019

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Re: Ladakh Union Territory- 2019

Postby Sachin » 31 Oct 2019 10:32

ArjunPandit wrote:Ladkah has small population over a very large area

True. During my road trip way back in 2006, I was surprised to see boards like "Nearest police station - Drass, 100kms 8). I was just wondering how people could even inform the police of about some crime. But later I also came to know that crime rate is low, and petty crimes generally get resolved through intervention of elders in the community etc.

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Re: Ladakh Union Territory- 2019

Postby A_Gupta » 31 Oct 2019 13:32

A voice from Kargil:
https://caravanmagazine.in/politics/kar ... ritory-370
“In J&K’s reorganisation, Kargil is the biggest loser”: Asgar Ali Karbalai

We need an equal share in development, but Leh gets everything. We fought hard for Ladakh [as an administrative] division and it was granted in 2019. The majority of Ladakhi people, at 46.4 percent [according to the 2011 census], are Muslims. The Buddhists of Leh feel that they are dominated by Muslims in the J&K state. But Kargilis feel the same discrimination. The state government thinks we are Muslims, but Shias. The centre thinks we are Ladakhis, but Muslims. For instance, till 2002, not even 0.1 percent of the Muslims of Ladakh were recruited in the Ladakh Scouts [an infantry regiment of the Indian Army, which specializes in mountain warfare and recruits from the Ladakhi communities]. After the formation of 14 Corps [formed in 1999, it is responsible for military deployment along Kargil and Leh], Lieutenant General Arjun Rai recruited Muslims for the first time, after the Kargil war. It’s the same with the SSB [Sashastra Seema Bal] and the ITBP [Indo-Tibetan Border Police] as well. They have trained only Buddhist people in villages with mixed population. They openly say that they do not want to train Muslims.

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Re: Ladakh Union Territory- 2019

Postby A_Gupta » 31 Oct 2019 13:57

https://thefederal.com/ladakh/2019/10/3 ... al-strike/

Shia tribespeople of Kargil usher in new UT of Ladakh with strike

“Kargil has a population of 1.4 lakh people and nearly 90% of its people belong to extremely marginalized Shia Muslim Scheduled Tribes such as the Baltis and the Gujjar-Bakerwals. We have been completely left out of the development plans for the new UT,” he told The Federal.

He said the demand that the administrative headquarters be shifted every six months has been completely ignored. “We have to travel 200 kilometers for the smallest work with the government, for healthcare, for education, even to play cricket. Imagine making this journey in the height of the Himalayan winter,” he said.

The agitation in Kargil broke out after the failure of talks between leaders of the JAC and the recently relieved interim governor of Jammu and Kashmir Satya Pal Malik. The JAC had presented a charter of 14 demands during the talks which collapsed after Malik was abruptly replaced with two Lt. Governors, one for J&K and the other for Ladakh.

One of the prime demands of the JAC is that the legislative powers of the hill development council of Kargil be restored. The council, which had the power to legislate on local issues under the previous state government, was reduced to a lame-duck body when the new UT was inaugurated on Thursday.

“Our only elected representative with some nominal power will now be the Member of Parliament from Ladakh. The people’s right to local self-governance has been completely suppressed by the BJP government,” said Hanifa Jaan, JAC member and president of the Kargil unit of the National Conference party.


Youth activist and scholar Zakir Zaidi said that to understand the unrest in Kargil over the UT it is important to understand the political history of its people since 1947. “We have always been pro-India, unlike Kashmiris. We believed in Indian secularism and the Indian Constitution. We not just supported but fought alongside the Indian army in all three wars against Pakistan.”


He said that the union government’s snub is all the more surprising given nothing in the 14-point manifesto of the JAC is anti-India. “What this shows is that the BJP wants to strengthen its support base in Leh by polarizing the electorate. It is using the same divide-and-rule tactics that have paid it dividends in the rest of India,” he said.

He told The Federal that the tragedy of the people of Kargil is that they have been traditionally discriminated by both Indian nationalists and Kashmiri nationalists. “The Sunni Kashmiris can’t look beyond our Shia and tribal identity and for the Hindus of mainland India we are merely Muslims,” he said.

A major worry for the tribal people of Kargil is that the creation of the UT will drastically reduce their job and educational opportunities under the ST category. Nasir Munshi explained that now the STs of Kargil would only be able to apply for central government jobs as the state government of J&K has ceased to exist.

“Our only chance of getting a government job now is through the UPSC selection process. All the government jobs in Ladakh UT have now become central government jobs. Meaning, we cannot apply for local jobs. We will be competing with STs all over the country for the 7.2% that’s reserved for STs in central government jobs,” Munshi said.

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Re: Ladakh Union Territory- 2019

Postby Sachin » 31 Oct 2019 14:42

A_Gupta wrote:Our only chance of getting a government job now is through the UPSC selection process. All the government jobs in Ladakh UT have now become central government jobs. Meaning, we cannot apply for local jobs.

I don't think this is factually true. Even UTs will have machinery staffed with local people, especially in areas like health care, law enforcement, revenue department etc. The UT cannot be run efficiently if a situation arises that even the low level clerk, or the local head constable are all people from other parts of India who have no clue on the UT geography and life style. Pondicherry is a UT which have been having its own police force, fire & rescue and civil administration apparatus for quite some time (even before the state having an elected CM). They were all staffed by people from Pondicherry UT area only. The top brasses (the IAS,IPS-wallahs) came from the AGMUT cadre.

Zakir Zaidi wrote:“We have always been pro-India, unlike Kashmiris.

I liked this statement though 8) :D

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Re: Ladakh Union Territory- 2019

Postby UlanBatori » 31 Oct 2019 18:27

Sachin wrote:
ArjunPandit wrote:Ladkah has small population over a very large area

True. During my road trip way back in 2006, I was surprised to see boards like "Nearest police station - Drass, 100kms 8). I was just wondering how people could even inform the police of about some crime. But later I also came to know that crime rate is low, and petty crimes generally get resolved through intervention of elders in the community etc.


How do they implement the NaMo EC diktat of "walk no more than 1 km to nearest polling booth"?

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Re: Ladakh Union Territory- 2019

Postby KJo » 31 Oct 2019 19:49

I am thinking maybe the GoI should have a new Ministry to fast track development in such areas which need to be urgently brought into the mainstream. We don't want projects to be delayed by some lazy babu. A ministry like this would have more value than some other ones.

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Re: Ladakh Union Territory- 2019

Postby UlanBatori » 31 Oct 2019 20:48

People, the word "development" sounds very grand but HTH do you do "development" when people are being lined up and shot by terrorists? This is the big Pig In The Room, isn't it? Right now, the shops are shuttered, the kids are staying home, in Kashmir, not because they want to, nor because of Silent Protest, but because they are terrified for their lives.

I don't see the end game here, just a long attrition war - unless the region is really FLOODED with people from all over India - along with heavy armed Polis protection by something under better control than the JK Polis has been all these years. People have to be pretty sure that terrorists are not coming calling at their homes, or on the roads, when the security forces are not looking.

Sober but dire fact.

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Re: Ladakh Union Territory- 2019

Postby Sachin » 31 Oct 2019 21:26

UlanBatori wrote:along with heavy armed Polis protection by something under better control than the JK Polis has been all these years. People have to be pretty sure that terrorists are not coming calling at their homes, or on the roads, when the security forces are not looking.

Terrorism is not a problem in Ladakh (i.e the topic of this thread). If we can keep the Shias at Drass a bit amused then Islamic Jihad is not going to be a problem in Ladakh. And most likely Ladakh UT may have its own state police force with local men & officers.

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Re: Ladakh Union Territory- 2019

Postby UlanBatori » 31 Oct 2019 22:35

How will the Jaish resist the temptation to inflate a market or two, is my concern. No answer I know except the obvious:
GIVE PEACE A CHANCE.... etc.

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Re: Ladakh Union Territory- 2019

Postby ramana » 02 Nov 2019 02:30

KJo wrote:I am thinking maybe the GoI should have a new Ministry to fast track development in such areas which need to be urgently brought into the mainstream. We don't want projects to be delayed by some lazy babu. A ministry like this would have more value than some other ones.



the whole UT with out legislature is that only. Lt Gov is the chief administrator of this ministry.

And don't throw stones at lazy babus or ministers for its they who came up with this surgical plan.

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Re: Ladakh Union Territory- 2019

Postby Cain Marko » 02 Nov 2019 02:45

UlanBatori wrote:People, the word "development" sounds very grand but HTH do you do "development" when people are being lined up and shot by terrorists? This is the big Pig In The Room, isn't it? Right now, the shops are shuttered, the kids are staying home, in Kashmir, not because they want to, nor because of Silent Protest, but because they are terrified for their lives.

I don't see the end game here, just a long attrition war - unless the region is really FLOODED with people from all over India - along with heavy armed Polis protection by something under better control than the JK Polis has been all these years. People have to be pretty sure that terrorists are not coming calling at their homes, or on the roads, when the security forces are not looking.

Sober but dire fact.


How did they fix Punjab? Perhaps a KPS Gill is needed in JK?

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Re: Ladakh Union Territory- 2019

Postby UlanBatori » 02 Nov 2019 03:06

They r already doing part of that. Hence the undie-knotting. Not so many permanent disappearages yet. I HOPE it does not get to that. In the 80s India was in no position to do what had to be done: Give Peace A Chance. Instead of killing (nominal) Indians, kill Pakis. In PakJab.

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Re: Ladakh Union Territory- 2019

Postby Rony » 02 Nov 2019 19:16

Gilgit-Baltistan comes under Ladakh

The new maps of the Union Territory of Jammu and Kashmir & Union Territory of Ladakh

Image



No longer Kashmir to Kanyakumari phrase. It should be Ladakh to Kanyakumari ??

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Re: Ladakh Union Territory- 2019

Postby Rsatchi » 02 Nov 2019 21:48

Rony wrote:Gilgit-Baltistan comes under Ladakh

The new maps of the Union Territory of Jammu and Kashmir & Union Territory of Ladakh

Image



No longer Kashmir to Kanyakumari phrase. It should be Ladakh to Kanyakumari ??

Sir
There is definitely a message being sent across: ?Gilgit-Baltistan(Balwaristan) and ?Buddhist in Aksai-Chin meaning if and when the reunification happens Ladakh may be get full statehood earlier and also may not have a 'peacful' majority? I mean looking at the present day populations in these regions can that happen.
Also the 'pious' ones will have majority J&K but would have long wait for statehood!!

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Re: Ladakh Union Territory- 2019

Postby Rony » 02 Nov 2019 22:00

Kargil is shia. Gilgit-Baltistan is majority Muslim. Together muslims will be a majority in Ladakh post liberation.

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Re: Ladakh Union Territory- 2019

Postby Amber G. » 02 Nov 2019 22:14

Nice Map above. Here is of the whole India:
Image

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Re: Ladakh Union Territory- 2019

Postby Aditya_V » 03 Nov 2019 12:30

Rony wrote:Kargil is shia. Gilgit-Baltistan is majority Muslim. Together muslims will be a majority in Ladakh post liberation.

See the Kargil district, Kargil+ Gilgit Baltistan will become a separate state.

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Re: Ladakh Union Territory- 2019

Postby Rsatchi » 03 Nov 2019 13:54

Aditya_V wrote:
Rony wrote:Kargil is shia. Gilgit-Baltistan is majority Muslim. Together muslims will be a majority in Ladakh post liberation.

[b]See the Kargil district, Kargil+ Gilgit Baltistan will become a separate state.

Meaning Kargil+Gilgit a shia state, Ladakh a buddhist UT, J&K ???Equal=Equal UT/State?

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Re: Ladakh Union Territory- 2019

Postby SBajwa » 03 Nov 2019 15:37

Supratik wrote:Lahore city had a Hindu-Sikh majority but Lahore district had a M majority.

In Ladakh there will be a build-up but nothing will happen soon until Mission Kashmir on the Pak front is complete. The time for Aksai Chin has not come.


Yep. But 80% of the property was owned and managed by non muslims. All educational institutions all engineering firms and even movie industry was owned by non muslims at Lahore. Sir Gangaram was civil engineer who created many canals and help establish new cities of Lyallpur (faisalabad) and Montgomery (Sahiwal). He was a philanthropist who created orphanages, hospitals and colleges for women.

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Re: Ladakh Union Territory- 2019

Postby SriKumar » 03 Nov 2019 17:02

SBajwa wrote:
Supratik wrote:Lahore city had a Hindu-Sikh majority but Lahore district had a M majority.

In Ladakh there will be a build-up but nothing will happen soon until Mission Kashmir on the Pak front is complete. The time for Aksai Chin has not come.


Yep. But 80% of the property was owned and managed by non muslims. .
This is a very interesting statistic and I had no idea about it. Is there a hidden lesson behind this statistic- that education, hardwork and industriousness will not matter (at some point) if the demographics are not in your favor. I always thought, and still do, that education and hardwork is the way to raise future generations.

But there is a weakness to this viewpoint, borne out by your statistic. Getting a good education, good job ....a good economy is not enough, from a long term perspective. You could lose it all in a second to someone else less educated, less interested in development, education etc.

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Re: Ladakh Union Territory- 2019

Postby Primus » 03 Nov 2019 17:42

SriKumar wrote:
SBajwa wrote:
Yep. But 80% of the property was owned and managed by non muslims. .
This is a very interesting statistic and I had no idea about it. Is there a hidden lesson behind this statistic- that education, hardwork and industriousness will not matter (at some point) if the demographics are not in your favor. I always thought, and still do, that education and hardwork is the way to raise future generations.

But there is a weakness to this viewpoint, borne out by your statistic. Getting a good education, good job ....a good economy is not enough, from a long term perspective. You could lose it all in a second.


Happened to the Jews in Europe. It appears that when a minority, following the laws of society laid down by the majority rises above that majority in terms of economic and intellectual wealth, it gets blamed for the 'misfortunes' of the society as a whole and becomes the target for retribution.

Another way to ask this question would be, despite being the rulers of Northern India for so long, and in equal or larger numbers in the population, why were the muslims less educated and less well-off overall? Or perhaps the question answers itself......

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Re: Ladakh Union Territory- 2019

Postby UlanBatori » 03 Nov 2019 17:46

when a minority, following the laws of society laid down by the majority rises above that majority in terms of economic and intellectual wealth, it gets blamed for the 'misfortunes' of the society as a whole and becomes the target for retribution.

Or just becomes an e-z target. Should cross-post in india-us dhaga.

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Re: Ladakh Union Territory- 2019

Postby SriKumar » 03 Nov 2019 18:09

Primus wrote:Happened to the Jews in Europe. It appears that when a minority, following the laws of society laid down by the majority rises above that majority in terms of economic and intellectual wealth, it gets blamed for the 'misfortunes' of the society as a whole and becomes the target for retribution.

Another way to ask this question would be, despite being the rulers of Northern India for so long, and in equal or larger numbers in the population, why were the muslims less educated and less well-off overall? Or perhaps the question answers itself......

I think the analogy of Jews in Europe does not apply here. Jews were always in a minority. This analogy muddles the Lahore situation and the lessons to be obtained. I can see some tangential similarities of Lahore siutation with some towns/cities in India.

In Lahore, Hindus+ Sikhs were majority, not a minority. In other places where Hindus+Sikhs were a minority, well....at some point in the past, they were a majority and over time slowly became a minority. They went about their business (figuratively and literally) building businesses, hospitals etc. not minding, and I frankly believe, working closely with their Muslim friends and neighbours as own brothers/sisters. They worked in a spirit of bhai-chara and did not care about religion. But all the focus on development, economy, entreprenuership came to nought and many left with only the clothes they wore, and many did not get out alive-notwithstanding the 80% ownership of the economy (this floors me frankly).

I think the message here is that raising educated, productive citizens for the next generation does not guarantee anything, including their staying alive. Economic status of individuals can go poof overnight and the people can be literally running for their lives the next day. There isn't a more emphatic example than the city of Lahore (if SBajwa 80% number is to be believed, even 50% is a large number).

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Re: Ladakh Union Territory- 2019

Postby Aditya_V » 03 Nov 2019 18:46

Primus wrote:
SriKumar wrote:This is a very interesting statistic and I had no idea about it. Is there a hidden lesson behind this statistic- that education, hardwork and industriousness will not matter (at some point) if the demographics are not in your favor. I always thought, and still do, that education and hardwork is the way to raise future generations.

But there is a weakness to this viewpoint, borne out by your statistic. Getting a good education, good job ....a good economy is not enough, from a long term perspective. You could lose it all in a second.


Happened to the Jews in Europe. It appears that when a minority, following the laws of society laid down by the majority rises above that majority in terms of economic and intellectual wealth, it gets blamed for the 'misfortunes' of the society as a whole and becomes the target for retribution.

Another way to ask this question would be, despite being the rulers of Northern India for so long, and in equal or larger numbers in the population, why were the muslims less educated and less well-off overall? Or perhaps the question answers itself......


Closer to home same thing happens to Tamil Brahmins as well

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Re: Ladakh Union Territory- 2019

Postby sanjaykumar » 03 Nov 2019 21:45

The bhai chara only went so far. Sikhs and Hindus would share their cooking, literally, but would not eat the Muslims’ cooked food. Of course sikhs have religious injunctions against halal.

The only people pak panjabis hate more than Hindus are the Sikhs. Their hatred of ahmediya, Shia is much tamer.

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Re: Ladakh Union Territory- 2019

Postby sanjaykumar » 03 Nov 2019 21:51

One reason is of course maharaja Ranjit Singh. He committed the unpardonable act of breaking Islamic suzerainty. This goes against their book.

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Re: Ladakh Union Territory- 2019

Postby DharmaB » 03 Nov 2019 22:42

Rsatchi wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:

[b]See the Kargil district, Kargil+ Gilgit Baltistan will become a separate state.

Meaning Kargil+Gilgit a shia state, Ladakh a buddhist UT, J&K ???Equal=Equal UT/State?


After all this settles down sooner or later, and when peace prevails, there will (should) be four States/UTs out of pre-independence J&K princely state.
1) Jammu (Hindu majority)
2) Kashmir (Valley + POK - M majority)
3) Ladhak (Buddhist majority)
4) GB +Kargil (Shia majority ??)

to prove that India can sustain and have states with non-hindu majority population and disproving two nation theory.

OR

Change the demographics to make it Hindu majority J&K state and Buddhist-Hindu majority Ladakh UT to make it like rest of India ?? (Politically very difficult unless we act like China, and ultimately decide to become a primarily Hindu nation-state with secular credentials)

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Re: Ladakh Union Territory- 2019

Postby vishvak » 03 Nov 2019 23:21

ultimately decide to become a primarily Hindu nation-state with secular credentials

and otherwise? Just trying to know the otherwise part. And in case things don't go as planned in peaceful Buddhists majority state, what will be the cost of corrections of mistakes and who will do the cost calculations.

Not to overlook that Ladakh is geographically more challenging location than Kashmir valley.

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Re: Ladakh Union Territory- 2019

Postby DharmaB » 03 Nov 2019 23:50

vishvak wrote:
ultimately decide to become a primarily Hindu nation-state with secular credentials

and otherwise? Just trying to know the otherwise part. And in case things don't go as planned in peaceful Buddhists majority state, what will be the cost of corrections of mistakes and who will do the cost calculations.


Honestly speaking there is always serious risks with every option and it is up to the planners to workout on possible fall outs. Inaction is not an option. It is worth taking the steps despite short term serous risks in view of long term gains. Because our civilization is at stake anyway.

In my opinion first option is the near term best possible solution if and when re-unification happens. But still there may be same problems with those M majority states which need a long term solution, only that the problem area shrinks to KV & GB.

What if stars are favoring us and napak breaks into 4 or 5 parts in near future ? Then who cares if KV & GB want azadi and want to live like their neighboring birathers ?

In the long term this problem could repeat in other parts of India as well until one day we decide to become a Hindu Nation (in Civilization point of view) with secular credentials with the checks and balances like UCC and population control laws in place. Otherwise imagine what else can happen in next 30 to 40 years ?

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Re: Ladakh Union Territory- 2019

Postby g.sarkar » 04 Nov 2019 01:04

Primus wrote:
SriKumar wrote:This is a very interesting statistic and I had no idea about it. Is there a hidden lesson behind this statistic- that education, hardwork and industriousness will not matter (at some point) if the demographics are not in your favor. I always thought, and still do, that education and hardwork is the way to raise future generations.
But there is a weakness to this viewpoint, borne out by your statistic. Getting a good education, good job ....a good economy is not enough, from a long term perspective. You could lose it all in a second.

Happened to the Jews in Europe. It appears that when a minority, following the laws of society laid down by the majority rises above that majority in terms of economic and intellectual wealth, it gets blamed for the 'misfortunes' of the society as a whole and becomes the target for retribution.
Another way to ask this question would be, despite being the rulers of Northern India for so long, and in equal or larger numbers in the population, why were the muslims less educated and less well-off overall? Or perhaps the question answers itself......


Sirji,
I would like to mention a few points; hopefully it will not be too much OT:
Jews came to Europe after Rome destroyed the Temple in Jerusalem in 70 BC. The Jewish population was enslaved and scattered. Looking for a better home they came to Europe. They were accepted by the local population of that time. Many of the local people in the countries they settled in were influenced by the Judaic religion and some even converted to Judaism. Genetic studies of Ashkenazi Jews done recently show this intermarriage clearly. However, things changed dramatically when Christianity came to Europe just about a thousand years ago. When the local population converted to Christianity, often in a group, following the conversion of a king, within one generation the local population turned against the Jews. That is when you read that Jews were Christ killers. Jews by that time were well settled in Europe and had intermarried into the society. Jews have never thrived in Christian or Muslim countries. They have thrived in India, China and in pre-Christian Europe. Yes, the hatred of the Jews was encouraged by the ruling class and the clergy, but that was not the only reason. The main reason was the arrival of Christianity. Jews thrived in trade and commerce because most other professions were not open to them. The European Jews got some of their rights back when the Christian states declined and state secularism became common. then came the Nazis. But that is another story.
The second point about Muslims being less educated and less well-off over all: when the Muslims ruled India, they were certainly not less well off as a society. Jobs were reserved for them in the army, and other administrative positions. Many doors were opened to Hindus who converted. Often land was granted to them after conversion. The court language was Persian, and a good number of Muslim immigrants came to India spoke that language. Hindus who wanted to advance had to learn Farsi first. The situation changed after the English took over. They displaced the Muslims from their high positions, imposed English as the primary language, and opened jobs to Hindus and Muslims alike. The Muslims took some time to accept these changes and that caused their backwardness.
Gautam

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Re: Ladakh Union Territory- 2019

Postby Luxtor » 04 Nov 2019 05:25

People of Ladakh have been loyal, peaceful within the Union of India. So even after this conversion to UT, we need to hear their grievances and concerns and make things right for them. We should have Gov't offices nearby so they don't have to travel long distances for gov't services. We should also reward them for their loyalty by developing the region as needed for the benefit of the populace.

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Re: Ladakh Union Territory- 2019

Postby Sachin » 04 Nov 2019 10:17

Luxtor wrote:We should also reward them for their loyalty by developing the region as needed for the benefit of the populace.

+1. To be frank, I do feel that there is merit in the Ladakhi's worry that people from the plains would over-whelm them. Making the area into a union territory should not lead to a situation where the bullys from the plains land up with their money bags, big vehicles and then throwing their weight around. My concern comes from some incidents which happed 3-4 years back. Many people in Leh-Ladakh make their living by being cab drivers who drive around the tourists. And then they find a rush of the rented cars landing up from Delhi side with spoilt brats eager to pick up fights. Not only such boorish behaviour alienate the locals, it is also actually harming the unique culture of the place in the long run. The same may happen in J&K UT as well, but knowing the attitude of KMs I feel that is justified 8).

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Re: Ladakh Union Territory- 2019

Postby dsreedhar » 18 Nov 2019 10:22



The guy in the video is requesting Modi to give 'Tribal area' status to Ladakh at the earliest. Says that people are getting really anxious about it and spreading rumours. They will be dejected if the tribal status and special protection does not happen.
So what is the plan for Ladakh? Is that being considered?

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Re: Ladakh Union Territory- 2019

Postby ramana » 18 Nov 2019 11:35

Pakistan Occupied Ladakh (POL)
A new term coined by Mr. @SengeHSering during the seminar conducted by Indica @IndicAcademy in the suburbs of Washington DC. @bhpgouda
#PakOccupiedLadakh
1/n https://t.co/Q9j1BspAi8

ramana
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Re: Ladakh Union Territory- 2019

Postby ramana » 18 Nov 2019 11:36

Please read the series of tweets by Muppala on Gilgit Baltistan

g.sarkar
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Re: Ladakh Union Territory- 2019

Postby g.sarkar » 20 Nov 2019 08:39

I just came across some stuff that Shri Sonam Wangchuk has been doing. If every one at BRF knows about it, I apologise. I was not aware:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... f-himalaya
The ice stupas of Ladakh: solving water crisis in the high desert of Himalaya
Solutions and innovations Glaciers

An ingenious idea to build artificial glaciers at lower altitudes using pipes, gravity and night temperatures could transform an arid landscape into an oasis
The idea crystallised in his mind one morning as Sonam Wangchuk was crossing a bridge in the Indian Himalayas.
The engineer from Ladakh, in the Jammu region of north India, was already a famous problem solver: a Bollywood film loosely based on his life had grossed a billion rupees in its first four days.
But addressing the water shortages that threatened life in his mountainous home had started to feel like an intractable problem until he saw the chunk of ice: still hanging, improbably, beneath the bridge, long after the shards around it had melted.
In that moment, he says, “I understood that it was not the warmth of the sun that was melting the ice on the ground. It was direct sunlight.”
What Wangchuck saw reflected in the ice that day was realised four years ago, when he unveiled his first “ice stupa”, an artificial glacier that towered surreally over the otherwise arid landscape, and for which in December he received a prestigious £80,000 innovation prize.
......
_________________________________________________________________
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWOJQ6kb9SQ
लद्दाख में भारतीय इंजीनियर सोनम वांगचुक का कमाल [Sonam Wangchuk: Unique water stupa in ladakh]
......
Gautam

UlanBatori
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Re: Ladakh Union Territory- 2019

Postby UlanBatori » 24 Nov 2019 02:24

Apologies if posted already.

Bonanza of power projects for Ladakh

By
Daily Excelsior -
21/11/2019

A cluster of hydro electric and solar power projects with intent to ensure production of power in ‘profusion’ in the Union Territory of Ladakh, at a cost of Rs.50000 crores, was going to be completed in a record period of four years which only reiterates the commitment of the Central Government to see an economic turnaround of Ladakh. In fact, a sort of autonomy in matters of having benefits accrued to this otherwise comparatively neglected region of the erstwhile state of Jammu and Kashmir, was going to be both felt and exercised by the people here. That the Union Home Minister made this important decision of the Government fairly known, proves that the difficulties faced by the people during long winter months when the region reels under sub-zero temperatures, were fully realised with all seriousness by the Government to devise policies and for tailoring different viable schemes.
It must look soothing to ears and a feast to eyes to read and watch that 7500 MW power was going to be produced all by 2023 in the region and it could be imagined that during the currency of the projects under construction, how much employment avenues shall get opened up not only right at the core projects but for the ancillary endowments supplying different inputs , material , equipment and the like to these projects. Since the problem of unemployment which is universal and not confined to some selected parts of the country only , such infrastructural projects not only provide solutions by creating periodic employment avenues but post completion , many hands get work and avenues to earn livelihood on a regular basis.
Prime Minister’s development package of Rs.80000 crore plus, announced for the entire state of Jammu and Kashmir four years back , say in November 2015 had many projects to be covered there – under in Ladakh region and it was observed that the work on most of them was going at snail’s pace about which ‘Excelsior’, through these columns , brought the same into the attention of the administration which , however, with Ladakh becoming a union territory shall not only get expedited but new power projects shall result in fast development of the vast area of Ladakh. Srinagar Leh transmission line for distribution of power, 14 solar projects for Leh and Kargil, Ladakh University, new tourist circuits and tracks for tourists are a few developmental steps taken by the NDA Government headed by Narendra Modi for Ladakh , Leh and Kargil which shall go a long way in bringing about much desired results in this region, marching ahead on the road of progress.
Let there be no mincing of words that the ongoing Pakistan sponsored militancy in Jammu and Kashmir especially in Kashmir valley for more than three decades, did cast its evil shadow on the pace of development, engulfing all the three regions of the erstwhile State. However, the fact remains that all the Central Governments during the period, especially the NDA Government, laid stress on development picking its speed along with fighting ongoing militancy. However, the fact remains that with Ladakh becoming a separate Union Territory directly administered by the Central Government, of course through the Lieutenant Governor as an administrator, there will no longer be any adverse impact on projects like delays etc generally experienced before. In fact, Ladakh region will be hopefully getting an enhanced budget which will pave the way for speedy and even development of this hitherto neglected region. Besides, newly introduced provisions of local taxation was going to augment its financial resources. As the Union Home Minister rightly hoped that Leh- Ladakh Region was on fast anvil to be at par with rest of the country.
]Bonanza of power projects for Ladakh

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Re: Ladakh Union Territory- 2019

Postby SBajwa » 24 Nov 2019 12:55

SriKumar wrote:
Primus wrote:Happened to the Jews in Europe. It appears that when a minority, following the laws of society laid down by the majority rises above that majority in terms of economic and intellectual wealth, it gets blamed for the 'misfortunes' of the society as a whole and becomes the target for retribution.

Another way to ask this question would be, despite being the rulers of Northern India for so long, and in equal or larger numbers in the population, why were the muslims less educated and less well-off overall? Or perhaps the question answers itself......

I think the analogy of Jews in Europe does not apply here. Jews were always in a minority. This analogy muddles the Lahore situation and the lessons to be obtained. I can see some tangential similarities of Lahore siutation with some towns/cities in India.

In Lahore, Hindus+ Sikhs were majority, not a minority. In other places where Hindus+Sikhs were a minority, well....at some point in the past, they were a majority and over time slowly became a minority. They went about their business (figuratively and literally) building businesses, hospitals etc. not minding, and I frankly believe, working closely with their Muslim friends and neighbours as own brothers/sisters. They worked in a spirit of bhai-chara and did not care about religion. But all the focus on development, economy, entreprenuership came to nought and many left with only the clothes they wore, and many did not get out alive-notwithstanding the 80% ownership of the economy (this floors me frankly).

I think the message here is that raising educated, productive citizens for the next generation does not guarantee anything, including their staying alive. Economic status of individuals can go poof overnight and the people can be literally running for their lives the next day. There isn't a more emphatic example than the city of Lahore (if SBajwa 80% number is to be believed, even 50% is a large number).


Please check my reply in the partition thread (a look back at partition)

vishvak
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Re: Ladakh Union Territory- 2019

Postby vishvak » 24 Nov 2019 23:29

The goi has let international forces get in punjab where local youth get to phoren and join police etc as per their requirement s. A bunch of sardarji at Rutgers, for example, would be better for sake of teenager students facing propaganda.

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Re: Ladakh Union Territory- 2019

Postby Rony » 29 Nov 2019 11:02

The truth about Ladakh’s Shaksgam: Correcting historical wrongs in J&K

Soon after India reorganized the former state of Jammu & Kashmir (J&K) into the new Union Territories (UT) of Jammu and Kashmir and Ladakh, China went ballistic.

Geng Shuang, a spokesman of China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs told the media: "China deplores and firmly opposes this. This is unlawful and void and this is not effective in any way and will not change the fact that the area is under Chinese actual control." He urged India to "earnestly respect Chinese territorial sovereignty and uphold peace and tranquillity in the border areas.”

China’s territorial ‘integrity’ refers not only to Beijing’s claims over the Aksai Chin and some other places up to (and in some cases beyond) the Line of Actual Control (LAC), but to the areas illegally ceded by Pakistan to China in 1963.

The Indian Ministry of External Affairs answered sharply: "We do not expect other countries, including China, to comment on matters that are internal to India, just as India refrains from commenting on the internal issues of other countries," declared the Ministry’s spokesman. Referring to the Shaksgam Valley, he pointed out that China had 'illegally' acquired Indian territories.

One understands why the new maps released by the Government irritate China, as this virtually opens up another sector to be negotiated along the Indo-Chinese disputed boundary.

In the new maps, the Leh district of Ladakh includes the districts of Gilgit, Gilgit Wazarat, Chilhas and Tribal Territory of 1947, in addition to the known areas of Leh and of course the Aksai Chin, occupied by China since the mid-1950s.

Why is the mention of Shaksgam an issue for Beijing?

An agreement was signed on March 2, 1963 between Pakistan and China about portions of Kashmir’s boundary with Xinjiang.

A secret Note prepared by the MEA’s Historical Division mentioned that “any such agreement will be ab initio illegal and invalid and will not bind India in any respect.” The Note observed that the preamble states that the parties have agreed to formally delimit and demarcate the boundary between Xinjiang and the contiguous areas of Pakistan; the latter based her right on the fact that these areas were under her ‘actual control’.
However as the Indian note explained: “Under international law, the right of entering into treaties and agreements is an attribute of sovereignty. Furthermore, a sovereign cannot presume to exercise sovereign functions in respect of territory other than its own. Having regard to the UN resolutions of 17 January 1948 and 13 August 1948 and 5 January 1949 (UNCIP Resolutions) it is clear that Pakistan cannot (and does not) claim to exercise sovereignty in respect of J&K.”

The 1963 MEA note clarified that according to the term of the UN Resolutions, “Pakistan cannot purport to exercise even ‘actual control’ over the defence of these areas.”

It quoted a statement of the United Nations Commission for India and Pakistan (UNCIP): “The Commission did not ignore India’s claim to the right to safeguard the security of the State, nor did it put into question the legality of the Jammu and Kashmir Government” (UN Doc S/1430). In other words, the UN acknowledged the Instrument of Accession signed by Maharaja Hari Singh.

The legal conclusion was that “Pakistan’s claim to the ‘actual control’ ….can only mean that she has had recourse to a line of action which is illegal and inconsistent with the UN Resolutions,[it was] reaffirmed by her as late as 2 May 1962.” Occupying a land by force or war does not give the titles of that land to the occupiers.

The Historical Division commented further on Pakistan’s mala fides: “the conclusion of this ‘Agreement’ amounts to compromising the sovereignty of the state of J&K, which Pakistan has no business to do; even though Article 6 of the agreement includes provision for its renegotiation after the final settlement of the Kashmir question.”

It is strange that the Governments of China and Pakistan announced the agreement on the eve of important Indo-Pakistan talks on Kashmir.
On March 5, 1963, speaking about China during a Calling Attention Motion in the Lok Sabha, the Indian Prime Minister stated: “If one goes by these maps, Pakistan has obviously surrendered over 13,000 square miles of territory.”

Nehru rightly remarked: “The agreement claims to be provisional, and yet so much haste has been shown in concluding it. It is significant that it is not subject to ratification. Thus, the National Assembly, the press and the public of Pakistan have been given and will be given no opportunity to examine the terms of this agreement.”

About China, he added that: “in spite of its professions that it has never involved itself in the dispute over Kashmir or its absurd claim that the boundary negotiations have promoted friendship between the Chinese and Pakistani people and are in the interests of Asia and world peace, is directly interfering in Indo-Pakistan relations. By doing this, China, is seeking to exploit differences between India and Pakistan …to further its own expansionist policy.”

Unfortunately, India did not have the wisdom to break the negotiations with Pakistan at that time, though the note pointed out that Delhi objected to Article 1 which said that the boundary in this region “has never been formally limited”; already on May 10, 1962, Delhi had clarified that “the international boundary alignment in the sector west of the Karakoram Pass of the boundary of J&K State of India follows well-known natural features, has been recognized in history for all these years.”

Interestingly, the joint China-Pakistan survey of the ‘donated’ areas was conducted in1987 only, 24 years after the territory was offered to China; it means that in 1963, Pakistan did not even know the exact magnitude of her gift.


The traditional boundary runs along the watershed dividing the tributaries of the Yarkand river and that of the Hunza river; then it continues to the Kilik, Mintaka, Karchanai, Parpik and Khunjerab Passes. It later crossed the Shaksgam river and after passing the Aghil mountains, it follows the Aghil, Marpo and Shaksgam Passes up to the Karakoram Pass.

It was observed that no Chinese authority had ever reached these areas, “the Mir of Hunza (in Kashmir) exercised authority in this region and maintained posts and collected revenue.”


The conclusion was that Pakistan, by her own admission as well as by the UN resolutions, “has no right to act on behalf of any part of J&K. The UNCIP has clearly recognized the legality of the J&K Government and the right of India to safeguard the security of the State;” it was just an attempt by Pakistan to formally legalize her control over the northern areas of J&K. Sir Owen Dixon, who in 1950 had been nominated by the UN as the official mediator between India and Pakistan for Kashmir, had termed Pakistan’s action as “inconsistent with international law”.
The Historical Division concluded: “Since the basis of her claim to control over these areas has itself originated in illegalities, it is clear that she cannot use this illegal basis in order to substantiate her claims to negotiate on behalf of these areas.”


It is this historical wrong that the new maps published by the Government are trying to rectify …at least on paper.


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