Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

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Vips
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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Vips » 08 Aug 2020 07:02

Suraj wrote:Watching Modi sit there at the center of the Bhumi Pujan made me realize again how much a closer connection he has with the culture of the land than any prior Indian leader. He's familiar with the rituals, norms and cultural knowledge of the country, and can speak about it in a universal language that the entire country can understand and nod along to, as if he's one of them.

Any prior leader I could see attending this in the following manner - shows up with SPG retinue, does folded hand greeting of the priesthood, then gets ushered to VVVVIP area from where he/she can watch. Maybe a token offering at the ceremony itself, but firm orders given to 'not make it very hard for the boss - send us prior notes on what you'll be chanting so he knows what to do next and doesn't look silly on live camera, even if it's a 10 second ritual'. Not even someone like ABV or PVNR, I can't picture carrying the gravitas of the moment the same way. Definitely not any past or present member of the Never-who clan - it would be clear their presence is to assert 'it's because of me that you can see this. vote for me! Oh btw, this place is being called Indira Gandhi memorial Ram Temple, ok thanks bye bye!'


Surajji, i have a WhatsApp clip of 20 seconds of Kamal Nath doing Pooja on Photo of Shri Ram on August 5th. His expressions were like - how soon can i complete this formality. No feelings of reverence at all. Shockingly after applying Tilak on Lord Ram you can see how he cleans the wet kum kum from his fingers by wiping them on the flowers of the garland on Shri Ram!!! Seeing the clip i felt like the shit faced joker needs to be dispatched to Hell to service his congress bosses there.

I do not know how to post the clip here or would have posted it.

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby KLNMurthy » 08 Aug 2020 07:22

Vips wrote:...
Surajji, i have a WhatsApp clip of 20 seconds of Kamal Nath doing Pooja on Photo of Shri Ram on August 5th. His expressions were like - how soon can i complete this formality. No feelings of reverence at all. Shockingly after applying Tilak on Lord Ram you can see how he cleans the wet kum kum from his fingers by wiping them on the flowers of the garland on Shri Ram!!! Seeing the clip i felt like the shit faced joker needs to be dispatched to Hell to service his congress bosses there.

I do not know how to post the clip here or would have posted it.


Maybe that's not something we need to see?

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Suraj » 08 Aug 2020 07:59

That sort of behavior is totally expected. We know that by default most political creatures are just that - political creatures. Standing in front of pujaris spouting janeu with an awkward sh*tfaced grin like RaGa, or whatever KamalNath was doing, is something we are used to. But... quite a few people aren't necessarily offended. Here's why:

Even some of us may have felt similarly awkward, without being so irreverent. Many folks hardly know the meaning and detail of the rituals we are required to be part of. They just know that they are the eldest son, some-other-status and thus are entrusted with some part of some ritual. You're standing there suitably attired while being instructed to say and do certain things, and you stand there somewhat mildly terrified of screwing up and are relieved when it's over. Phew, dhoti didn't fall off mid ritual! phamily echandee saved! Some folks here may be very knowledgeable and dignified through these. More power to you. I don't claim any great ritual knowledge myself.

However, when we see someone we immediately recognize as a natural in this act, we know that. The original point I made is that Modi is there in a manner like no prior PM ever - to such an extent that he doesn't look like the visiting dignitary. He has no security with visible distance (none of the pujaris looked like SPG in disguise), he's keeping a reverent low key presence, accurately doing everything, and very clearly the priesthood treats him as the cultural leader they approve as the one leading benedictions for this momentous occasion, not some clown they are required to suffer briefly because he happens to be some politician of consequence.

The whole country gets this too. We all know how to tell truly sincere and knowledgeable participation in Vedic rituals we are duty-bound to do, from just being compelled to do it and going through the motions with insincerity. Many people are themselves awkward at this , so they don't openly penalize people like RaGa for something they themselves are bad at. But on the other hand, someone whom the whole country can associate as everything from a modern day Shivaji, to the left urban naxals derisively mocking as 'saffron clad Hindu king' during this ceremony ? The latter would love to claim Modi is just being an insincere opportunist like Kamal Nath here, but the whole country recognizes otherwise.

Tl;dr : Kamal Nath behaving like that doesn't really penalize him too much, and he knows it. But Modi is a completely different creature and everyone knows that about him - that's why he Kamal Nath is a 20 second whatapp video, RaGa thread ceremony is a photo, and Modi at Ayodhya is an hour long live streamed thing with billion+ viewership.

You can't fake these things. We all respect and admire someone who respects and understands his culture to such an extent beyond what most of us ourselves can - we implicitly trust him as the paramount leader then. KLNMurthy recently asked for help with a thread to 'deconstruct the Modi phenomenon'. I told him I don't know why Modi is so popular, and don't have enough sense to figure it out. Perhaps the above puja was a moment of clarity and tells me a little of why - he just understands our country, culture and history so much and expresses it to such an extent that we all admire and let him lead. You cannot get that from a script, and most certainly cannot fake it.

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Sachin » 08 Aug 2020 20:34

Suraj wrote:Many folks hardly know the meaning and detail of the rituals we are required to be part of. They just know that they are the eldest son, some-other-status and thus are entrusted with some part of some ritual.

OT from the Ram Janmabhoomi topic per se; but this aspect is also a bane of Hindu society. X'ians have a ceremony known as 'holy communion'. It is generally done for kids, and is a kind of 'coming of age' ceremony. It is at this stage the child accepts X'tianity after understanding the religion. I have not seen a similar system among Hindus. From what I have observed even among the Brahmins etc there are very lengthy drawn out ceremonies, but pretty much none knowing why a certain task is done or not. At least on two occasions where I witnessed the janeu wearing ceremony for kids, both of them were totally knocked out by the smoke, chanting of mantras and the chief priest making them do some activities (without knowing what it was meant for). When compared to this my drill NCO/ustaad actually could explain the requirement of drill and certain ceremonies and the relevance of them (at least during the olden days).

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Rsatchi » 08 Aug 2020 20:46

Sachin wrote:
Suraj wrote:Many folks hardly know the meaning and detail of the rituals we are required to be part of. They just know that they are the eldest son, some-other-status and thus are entrusted with some part of some ritual.

OT from the Ram Janmabhoomi topic per se; but this aspect is also a bane of Hindu society. X'ians have a ceremony known as 'holy communion'. It is generally done for kids, and is a kind of 'coming of age' ceremony. It is at this stage the child accepts X'tianity after understanding the religion. I have not seen a similar system among Hindus. From what I have observed even among the Brahmins etc there are very lengthy drawn out ceremonies, but pretty much none knowing why a certain task is done or not. At least on two occasions where I witnessed the janeu wearing ceremony for kids, both of them were totally knocked out by the smoke, chanting of mantras and the chief priest making them do some activities (without knowing what it was meant for). When compared to this my drill NCO/ustaad actually could explain the requirement of drill and certain ceremonies and the relevance of them (at least during the olden days).

Sachinji
More closer to Janeeu ceremony is ?? Bar Mitzvah for the jewish boy coming of age ?? answering the elders
But agree kids are either too young and knocked out by fire and smoke or too old to give a toss! and nobody interested to explaining why it is necessary :D

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Yayavar » 10 Aug 2020 11:41

Primus wrote:What a historic day, and what an amazing leader we have in Modi Ji. Agree completely with what has been said here already. Yet there are those that hate him for just being who he is, a natural born leader who has the greatest following in India of anybody since Gandhi - who I dare say would not have been as popular today, in this information age when every body knows everything.

Ambedkar said it best in his interview to the BBC all those years ago: Gandhi is a saint to the average man because they don't know him. They see only the 'mahatma' because of the external appearance he has put up. I've seen his real fangs.


Primus-ji agree. Modi is phenomenal. He stated shauchalaya before devalaya and he has done both. In fact, I was inclined to call it 2nd Indian Republic last year with the removal of article 370 and thereby unifying the country under common set of rules. But maybe this is the 2nd republic as it rights a wrong from 500 years back with agreement and full participation of those with opposite view initially (waqf board and Iqbal ansari) and unified hindu support. Supreme court oversaw it but the environment has changed over time and under Modi.

Wonder which event Ambedkar was referring to but this moment demonstrating Hindu unity is more in line with Gandhi's view in the famous Ambedkar-Gandhi agreement (poona pact). Gandhi was against separate set of electorates within the Hindu community for depressed classes which Ambedkar wanted. In the end Gandhi forced Ambedkar through his influence with others and a fast unto death to come to an agreement allowing reserved seats within the same electorate.

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Rsatchi » 10 Aug 2020 12:24

https://thewire.in/religion/eid-ul-zuha ... fice-islam
'No resurrection of a beleaguered community is possible until they begin to take pride in the identity that is under fire and embrace it. Until you take pride in who you are, you cannot command the respect of others. The Jews remained a scattered persecuted lot while they were trying to be invisible. The Sikhs could emerge from the vilification they faced in public discourse during the heyday of the Khalistan movement only because of the pride they take in their Sikh identity. Today, the Muslim identity is under attack more than ever before. A lot of Muslims who have been through the western education system react by expending their efforts in trying to become invisible and effacing whatever makes them stick out. Unfortunately, it seems to take very little for us to start believing that we have risen above our shariyat and are living in times that God did not contemplate when revealing the last verse of the Quran “This day I have perfected your religion for you”.'
If I take pride in my identity I immediately hailed a Bhakt/communal/majoritarianism!!! :lol: :lol:

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby RajaRudra » 10 Aug 2020 14:33

https://national.janamtv.com/kp-oli-mul ... ple-27657/

Kathmandu: Prime Minister KP Sharma Oli who had sparked controversy over the birth place of Lord Ram as being in Nepal and not in Ayodhya, is now mulling over developing areas under the Madi municipality in Chitwan district as ‘Ayodhyapuri’, where he thinks Lord Ram was actually born.

--------------

Nepal can be called an original clone of India.
Also came to know and surprised that, some people in Indonesia and Thailand has belief that Ayodhya is in their country..

Good!

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby schinnas » 10 Aug 2020 15:36

More countries staking claim over Ram is to be encouraged. It makes Ram and Ramayana global in popular discourse. It would make the Ayodhya in UP even more popular.

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby yensoy » 10 Aug 2020 16:52

schinnas wrote:More countries staking claim over Ram is to be encouraged. It makes Ram and Ramayana global in popular discourse. It would make the Ayodhya in UP even more popular.

There is an Ayodhya 80km north of Bangkok too. We need an Ayodhya sister city club.

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Adrija » 10 Aug 2020 16:58

There is an Ayodhya 80km north of Bangkok too. We need an Ayodhya sister city club.


Ayuthaya is the name of the older capital city....... and the Kings of Thailand style themselves as Rama... current one is Rama X

Incidentally his sister, Princess Angel MahaChakri Sirindhorn is a very fluent Samskrut scholar

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Mukesh.Kumar » 10 Aug 2020 17:28

schinnas wrote:More countries staking claim over Ram is to be encouraged. It makes Ram and Ramayana global in popular discourse. It would make the Ayodhya in UP even more popular.


Absolutely. Indic civilisation had deep roots and its embedded in the cultures and consciousness of many peoples around the IOR, even deep within China and as far afield as Korea.

Centuries of Abrahamic faiths pilloring this has weakened these bounds but they lie deep and dormant.

As the homeland, India arises, the other nodes will take courage and start discovering their identity. Our success will pave the way for people to embrace our ideas again.

To reestablish the Bharatiya identity our focus should be on developing these four strengths:
  1. Economy: Without artha you are nowhere. The day we eschewed the pursuit of wealth and meritrocratic models, we became weak. Unlike other religions Indic religions did not grown up on wealth generation, only up on exploitation.
  2. Military: Needless to say, if you are weak and wealthy you are like a fattened sheep to be slaughtered. We have to slowly remove this poison of ahisma from our thought processes. Only a strong India will inspire others to stand up for their own Indic rediscovery.
  3. Knowledge: We are not Abrahamic faiths. We don't have a strong unitary head/ need for faith/ need for blind belief/ written book. Our strength is discourse and debate. Our strength is our ability to live with ambiguity. But we also need to realize that to live with ambiguity requires being able to ask hard questions. That is something we need to open our society up to. We definitely need to uproot charlatans. We need to teach not only the next generation but also make all of the country aware of what is the essence of Hinduism. Knowledge gives us strength to withstand the attacks of others.
  4. Social: Finally, I strongly believe that as a society we're need to reform. We need to our society inclusive. Just and fair. We can rail and rant against rice bag conversions but till the time we take ownership and address these issues ourselves. Address this inequality we will always be open to attacks. That is why I am so happy to see that RJB temple had soil from all over.

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Rsatchi » 10 Aug 2020 17:47

Mukesh.Kumar wrote:
schinnas wrote:More countries staking claim over Ram is to be encouraged. It makes Ram and Ramayana global in popular discourse. It would make the Ayodhya in UP even more popular.


[*][b]Military: Needless to say, if you are weak and wealthy you are like a fattened sheep to be slaughtered. We have to slowly remove this poison of ahisma from our thought processes. Only a strong India will inspire others to stand up for their own Indic rediscovery[/b].

Mukeshji
The concept of Ahimsa is very deep rooted in our culture: Take the example of Mahaveera(why he gave up his throne) or Buddha or Ashoka
But they were in a particular situation (some personal or created by themselves) that made them to give up the arms.
Why even Krishna during Mahabharatha advices ? Arjuna or ?one of the other Pandavas that Non-violence is a noble act but he says that when faced with a war or for the establishment of 'Dharma' if you follow Non-violence then it is 'Cowardice'
We have been so much into this concept of Ahimsa that we blindly keep repeating it without even thinking in what context it is better for the society.
Post Gandhi this has become a 'Mill-Stone' our neck and the BIF's and the Abrahamic folks use this selectively to keep us subjugated and dissing us when we take up arms for having done so!!
With hopefully reintroduction of our heritage especially to our younger gen as well as the future Civil Service entrants (These are the most important one as the present Cabal setting exams/selecting candidates are totally left oriented deracinated BIF's, sorry to use the epithets) they realise in what context the ahimsa should be followed and not always!!
Did not the 'Mahatma' once say if the mussalman wants to rape our women and kills us we should not resist!! :shock:
What examples are we setting for the future gen with such mindless verbal incontinence!! :P

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby pandyan » 10 Aug 2020 18:11

On the topic of ahimsa and ashoka.

True indology on twitter:
https://twitter.com/TIinExile/status/12 ... 9761490945
When Ashoka became Buddhist: 4th year of his rule.

When he invaded Kalinga: 8th year.

Ashoka was a BUDDHIST when he waged Kalinga war.

After war,he killεd 18,000 Non-Buddhists who allegedly "insulted Buddhism".

Whom do they finally blame? Yes, Hindus and Hinduism


Yes, the great Buddhist emperor Ashoka killɛd 18,000 Ajivikas & Jains because a Nirgrantha Jain of Pundravardhana (Bengal) named Jnatiputra drew a picture of Buddha prostrating at the feet of Mahavira.

Worse, this information comes from a Buddhist source.


Those asking for source should read Mahavamsa, Ashoka's pillar edicts and Divyavadana. The information given out by me in this thread comes from these sources.


Image

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Rsatchi » 10 Aug 2020 18:28

^^^
Pandyanji
But what we are fed constantly is he gave war and followed ahimsa!!We should correct that in the history books. But will the left historians agree as that will destroy their augments against the indic folks
And blithely told that we in fact later destroyed all the Buddhist monasteries and sinned hence we should always follow ahimsa

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Mukesh.Kumar » 10 Aug 2020 18:38

Absolutely Rsatchiji and Pandyanji. We are brain washed ad nauseam with What without the Why? Actually in a way it related back to the point of Knowledge.

We need fresh fact based analysis of our history. Today we swing between self loathing and crazy claims of building atomic weapons 5000 years ago.

Even if we discover we had lacunae that knowledge will also free us from this uncertainty and empower us to not repeat mistakes from past.

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby sudarshan » 10 Aug 2020 19:19

Hsuan Tsang, in his memoirs, has many stories about Ashoka. At no point does he mention this story of Ashoka supposedly renouncing violence after the Kalinga war. There is no mention of the Kalinga war in Tsang's work, there is even no mention of Ashoka renouncing violence. Ashoka is portrayed as an emperor who indulged in cruelty for cruelty's sake.

There is also absolutely no mention of this other canard perpetrated by the BIF's - that Buddhism was some kind of "rebellion against casteist Hinduism." But that's a different story.

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Suraj » 10 Aug 2020 21:13

Mod Note

This is NOT a general religion thread. Please don't turn it into one. Stay on specific topic.

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby bharathp » 11 Aug 2020 01:53

if you read the full sloka on ahimsa:

अहिंसा परमो धर्मः
धर्म हिंसा तथीव च

Non-violence is the ultimate dharma. So too is violence in service of Dharma.

It is part of our teachings to take up arms in service of Dharma.

this selective teaching and even more problematic selective learning from half slokas has been a big problem

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby KLNMurthy » 11 Aug 2020 05:29

Rsatchi wrote:...
Sachinji
More closer to Janeeu ceremony is ?? Bar Mitzvah for the jewish boy coming of age ?? answering the elders
But agree kids are either too young and knocked out by fire and smoke or too old to give a toss! and nobody interested to explaining why it is necessary :D


may be still OT but I think Bar Mitzvah more closely approximates the Snatakam or graduation ceremony. Upanayanam is the beginning of studies, so they are not expected to know anything at that point (age 6 or 7).

Traditionally of course Snatakam could only happen after the student passes the test given by the Guru and the Guru gives his assent, that's what graduation is.

What happened is that we are (more or less, at least among brahmin community) keeping to the rituals (samskaras) , but stripped them of all meaning in the name of expediency. (I should say the aam brahmin, that too in my circle, shouldn't generalize). We keep the sequence: Upanayanam, Snatakam, Vivaham, [Sanyasam or Vanaprastham], followed by Dahanam (cremation), but about the only one I have seen being taken seriously at all is the last samskara, Dahanam. I have seen the wedding date being fixed, then Upanayanam done hurriedly the day before the wedding, and Snatakam on the morning of the wedding, so that the Vivaham (marriage) the man is all synced-up for the Vivaham, and after that, essentially nothing till the dahanam.

To my understanding, priests do have some kind of sangham based on the school or master that taught them. So, when the priest graduates from priest school, it should be made a rule for practicing his profession that no priest will perform Snatakam unless the brahmachari has actually passed a traditional knowledge test to the priest's satisfaction. They also need to make Snatakam compulsory for all Hindus, not just brahmins. And for both men and women. (And bloody well eliminate the pre-wedding part that expiates the "sin" of having ever accidentally touched a Sudra).

Thus, if you want a Hindu wedding ceremony, you had better demonstrate knowledge of your religion and make an affirmation that you will uphold it (this affirmation is actually part of the vivaham or wedding ceremony, but again, the bride & groom are just mindlessly repeating what the priest tells them to, so they have no idea what they are pledging. Sometimes, the priest takes the time to explain to them what is going on, but most of the time not).

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby suryag » 11 Aug 2020 05:41

May be this is OT

Sir just for my knowledge can/should non-brahmins perform upanayanam for their sons ? Additionally, I read somewhere that at some point of time upanayanam was also done for girls but was later abandoned not sure why.

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby KLNMurthy » 11 Aug 2020 06:10

suryag wrote:May be this is OT

Sir just for my knowledge can/should non-brahmins perform upanayanam for their sons ? Additionally, I read somewhere that at some point of time upanayanam was also done for girls but was later abandoned not sure why.


There is a famous speech by Vivekananda given in then-Madras on Marina beach where he urged all Hindus to perform Upanayanam regardless of caste / varna whatever, he said it is key to the survival of Hinduism.

There is no reason that I can see for excluding girls from Upanayanam. Arya Samaj performs Upanayanam for boys as well as girls, and AS women have the right to officiate as priests in yagnas that are performed by AS. I believe Maharshi Dayananda Saraswati found that there was no prohibition for girls; it is just that people didn't do it, and then it became a custom.

I have seen news a couple of years ago that the Tirupati temple priest school was graduating its first batch of so-called SC/ST priests. They definitely had to have received the thread when they started their studies, so obviously it follows that there is no longer (if there ever was) a caste barrier to receiving the thread.

I am not knowledgeable at all in the sastras, but I was once told by a senior family member that a lot of the time, what we think of as exclusions (for example, women don't attend the dahana-samskara) are more a matter of convention and practice than sastric injunction. For example, sastra may say, "make sure your son gets the thread" because by default their thinking was that sons are the ones who get the thread, and no one asked them, "does it mean my daughter should not get the thread" (just an example only, again I am not claiming any knowledge), so they never said yes or no to that question.

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby KLNMurthy » 11 Aug 2020 06:20

Suraj wrote:Mod Note

This is NOT a general religion thread. Please don't turn it into one. Stay on specific topic.

What's an appropriate thread? The Bharatiya one? I could move my posts there, but I don't know how.

(Looks like what our "liberal" friends feared is happening here on this thread itself: the Ramalayam construction has caused a spike of interest in Hindu religion among the unwashed. :D )

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby nachiket » 11 Aug 2020 06:44

KLNMurthy wrote:
Suraj wrote:Mod Note

This is NOT a general religion thread. Please don't turn it into one. Stay on specific topic.

What's an appropriate thread? The Bharatiya one? I could move my posts there, but I don't know how.

(Looks like what our "liberal" friends feared is happening here on this thread itself: the Ramalayam construction has caused a spike of interest in Hindu religion among the unwashed. :D )

We don't have a generic religion thread anymore. You will find the old ones from years ago in the Religion Discussion Archive.

Closest I could find now is this: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7200&start=440

But I don't know if even that one is appropriate for this sort of discussion. There were good reasons for the old Religion thread to get canned and religion related discussion to be discouraged here. That policy has not changed to my knowledge.

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Suraj » 11 Aug 2020 08:52

KLNMurthy wrote:
Suraj wrote:Mod Note

This is NOT a general religion thread. Please don't turn it into one. Stay on specific topic.

What's an appropriate thread? The Bharatiya one? I could move my posts there, but I don't know how.

(Looks like what our "liberal" friends feared is happening here on this thread itself: the Ramalayam construction has caused a spike of interest in Hindu religion among the unwashed. :D )

Nachiket already covered this. A general religion thread is going to be a moderation time sink. A much more restrictive one suggesting forward looking reforms that ensure Hinduism also has a 'structured set of rituals', like the posts above ? Sure, if you have the motivation to drive that and keep it on track, that might work.

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Suraj » 11 Aug 2020 09:01

Now that the Ram Temple at Ayodhya is a done deal after 492 long years, the focus moves towards Kashi and Mathura. The 1991 Places of Worship Act currently keeps that situation as it is.

However there's another issue that keeps those places quiet - the ad hoc restrictions against photography. This Malloostani can tell you he had NO idea about Kashi and Mathura situation until he saw one firsthand and the other from a rarely seen picture: clicky.

The issue remains largely quiet partly because a large number of people literally do not know how egregiously invasive these structures are - the latter in particular. Both these could use a widely circulated 4K resolution video from a drone showing the true extend of the encroachment upon the original structure.

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Cyrano » 11 Aug 2020 17:34

I visited the Mathura Sri Krishna Janmasthan temple in 2002 IIRC, the mosque is there, encroaching on the pre-existing temple, like a forcibly attached Siamese twin. No reason to build a mosque there in that manner (instead of building it elsewhere or by destroying the temple completely and only letting the mosque remain visible) except as an affront and a constant reminder of Muslim domination over Hindus.

There is another ISKON temple nearby, recently constructed, quite pleasant and peaceful.

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Rsatchi » 11 Aug 2020 19:15

amar_p wrote:I visited the Mathura Sri Krishna Janmasthan temple in 2002 IIRC, the mosque is there, encroaching on the pre-existing temple, like a forcibly attached Siamese twin. No reason to build a mosque there in that manner (instead of building it elsewhere or by destroying the temple completely and only letting the mosque remain visible) except as an affront and a constant reminder of Muslim domination over Hindus.

There is another ISKON temple nearby, recently constructed, quite pleasant and peaceful.

Amarji
Or to convert that Mathura temple into a 'Archealogical visitor site' 'Tourist site' with no murthy pooja just a board to indicate that the temple destroyed to build a mosque. A new temple built nearby should attract both 'Shradaaslu's ' and the 'Touristy' types.
I think there is a place in Karnataka of Hoysala period partly destroyed by the Muslim invaders but no Pooja happens only as a tourist attraction!!
Will that shame the 'Peacefuls' enough to voluntarily give up the site!! Just a noob pooch!! :wink:

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby chetak » 11 Aug 2020 19:40

Raghu@IndiaTales7 · 10h

No one remembers the girl baby born on the same day who was interchanged with Krishna, a boy baby, to save his life. The boy's life was precious but the girl was born to sacrifice her life. Today is not only the birthday of Shri Krishna but also of Yogamaya.
#HappyJanmashtami

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby chetak » 11 Aug 2020 20:16

amar_p wrote:I visited the Mathura Sri Krishna Janmasthan temple in 2002 IIRC, the mosque is there, encroaching on the pre-existing temple, like a forcibly attached Siamese twin. No reason to build a mosque there in that manner (instead of building it elsewhere or by destroying the temple completely and only letting the mosque remain visible) except as an affront and a constant reminder of Muslim domination over Hindus.

There is another ISKON temple nearby, recently constructed, quite pleasant and peaceful.


reclaim

why should we be the only ones to show understsnding, compromise and cooperation

that's how we lost everything after independence.

when Somnath was rebuilt, everyone except neverwho and his commie, islamofacist ilk kept quiet. we should have taken everything back at that time.

because we did not, there are renewed cries of jinnahwalli azaadi once again today

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Cyrano » 11 Aug 2020 21:55

Rsatchi,
Not sure what you mean re Mathura.

The place you are referring to in Karnataka is perhaps Hampi. One of the most enjoyable sites to visit in India. A must see weekend trip, very accessible from Bangalore. There are hundreds of tiny, small and big temples spread over several sq km, most have been defaced by invading muslim armies and therefore no puja happens in them. Every human and animal shaped carving on thousands of pillars and temple walls has been systematically mutilated, since such representation is haraam. How the magnificent Virupaksha temple escaped the destruction is a mystery to me. Need to refresh my history re Hampi.

Chetak, reclaiming Mathura/Kashi will not by itself eliminate cries of jinnahwalli azaadi. Rounding up such scoundrels and paradropping them over Pakistan will.

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby chetak » 11 Aug 2020 22:04

amar_p wrote:Rsatchi,
Not sure what you mean re Mathura.

The place you are referring to in Karnataka is perhaps Hampi. One of the most enjoyable sites to visit in India. A must see weekend trip, very accessible from Bangalore. There are hundreds of tiny, small and big temples spread over several sq km, most have been defaced by invading muslim armies and therefore no puja happens in them. Every human and animal shaped carving on thousands of pillars and temple walls has been systematically mutilated, since such representation is haraam. How the magnificent Virupaksha temple escaped the destruction is a mystery to me. Need to refresh my history re Hampi.

Chetak, reclaiming Mathura/Kashi will not by itself eliminate cries of jinnahwalli azaadi. Rounding up such scoundrels and paradropping them over Pakistan will.



yes, I know that.

cries of jinnahwalli azaadi will not stop.

its just another way for them to show us that they are not part of us. just like the rabid insistence on cow slaughter when there is no real need.

wonder why they were allowed to stay back and what motivated mohandas to plant such a landmine before he departed. IWT also happened and we knew all the facts before we so fooishly gave it away to the pakis.

or can that also be traced back to the cunning britshits/amerikis

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby saip » 11 Aug 2020 23:05

I visited Lepakshi in AP (actually I went there from Bangalore, Kerala) few years ago and what do you know? A mosque abutting the sixteenth century temple! I would like to know when that mosque was built.

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Rsatchi » 11 Aug 2020 23:21

amar_p wrote:Rsatchi,
Not sure what you mean re Mathura.

The place you are referring to in Karnataka is perhaps Hampi. One of the most enjoyable sites to visit in India. A must see weekend trip, very accessible from Bangalore. There are hundreds of tiny, small and big temples spread over several sq km, most have been defaced by invading muslim armies and therefore no puja happens in them. Every human and animal shaped carving on thousands of pillars and temple walls has been systematically mutilated, since such representation is haraam. How the magnificent Virupaksha temple escaped the destruction is a mystery to me. Need to refresh my history re Hampi.

Chetak, reclaiming Mathura/Kashi will not by itself eliminate cries of jinnahwalli azaadi. Rounding up such scoundrels and paradropping them over Pakistan will.

Hampi is Vijayanagara empire capital noting to do with Hoyasala(They predated Vijayanara) as well Hampi temple is still has Murthi pooja.
I was referring to Somanathapura which predated Belur Chennakeshava temple. The murthi in Somanathapura temple is missing!
I was only thinking if you could shame the 'Peacefuls' in returning the place and the Liberandus to shut up as well but I suppose that is not going to happen

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Cyrano » 12 Aug 2020 00:38

When I think about it, the encroachment/abutment instead of razing to the ground and building on top of it (or not) is quite perverse and insidious. Like stabbing someone and keeping the knife in there as a reminder, as a tool against future resurgence, an act of continued visual and spiritual defilement.

At lots of places in India, especially in small towns, in close proximity to Hindu temples and Gurudwaras, you will regularly find big or small Muslim structures adorned with green flags. Often encroaching on to the road as well so that you can't miss or ignore it. You are forced to look at them as you go to your own place of worship. These structures are set up purposefully act as a trigger for a communal flare up when any expansion/road widening etc are planned around the temple area.

What is the need to show so much petulance? My guess is inferiority complex stemming from cutting oneself off from history and cultural heritage, jealousy of the freedom and joyfulness other faiths offer, a need to keep its own flock together by seeking to create tense situations with others, strengthen grip on ignorant followers by provoking others and seeking societal and legal exceptions...

Happens in India, happens in Europe, happens everywhere if left unchallenged.

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby sum » 12 Aug 2020 09:04

^^^ +1

Is just a show of defiance and "up yours" more than any other reasons.
Similar to the beef eating and cow slaughtering in common areas and claiming it is a integral part of religion when it never was

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby darshan » 14 Aug 2020 10:01

DD’s live coverage of Ram Mandir Bhoomi Pujan watched by over 160 million people, garnered over 7 billion viewing minutes across channels in India
https://www.opindia.com/2020/08/bhoomi- ... harti-ceo/
The Bhoomi Pujan event that laid the foundation of the majestic Ram Mandir in Ayodhya on August 5 was historic. On Friday, Shashi S Vempati, the CEO of Prasar Bharti, informed that estimates suggest that the event had recorded massive viewership.

He said that preliminary viewership data suggest that more than 160 million people watched the live broadcast of the ‘Bhoomi Pujan’ event that took place at Ayodhya on August 5. He further added that about 200 channels carried the live coverage by Doordarshan between 10:45 am and 2 pm.

Want ban on cow-slaughter, liberation of Kashi and Mathura temples as Dakshina: Ram Mandir Bhoomi Pujan priest Gangadhar Pathak
https://www.opindia.com/2020/08/ram-man ... slaughter/
The chief priest of the Ram Mandir Bhoomi Pujan Gangadhar Pathak, who had returned to Vrindavan after duly completing the foundation laying ceremony of the Ram Mandir in Ayodhya has sought ‘dakshina’ from PM Modi.

Calling PM Modi his ‘yajman’, Pathak has asked him for the abolition of cow-slaughter and liberation of Kashi Vishwanath temple and Lord Krishna’s temple in Mathura as his ‘dakshina’.

Search for ‘Burnol’ saw a huge spike during Ram Mandir Bhoomi Pujan, people from Northeast appeared most interested

https://www.opindia.com/2020/08/ram-man ... rnol-peak/

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby chetak » 14 Aug 2020 12:40

sum wrote:^^^ +1

Is just a show of defiance and "up yours" more than any other reasons.
Similar to the beef eating and cow slaughtering in common areas and claiming it is a integral part of religion when it never was


In bangalore, kj george openly attempted to hijack some land right next to the ISKON temple in north Bangalore and when that failed spectacularly due to huge resistance on the ground, he again made many forceful attempts to take over the same ISKON temple using the murzai department of the KAR govt to gain control so that the congi govt would then legally aid him in his nefarious design by supressing dissent via a govt order enforced by the police.

When rightfully and legally challenged, the courts intervened to stop this blatantly jehadi communal creep after the massive protests by the Hindus of the area.

these tactics of close proximate co location of churches/masjids are increasingly being used to block off access to Hindu temples, malevolently interfere in Hindu rituals and customs by drowning out temple prayers by use of illegal and very high decibel loudspeakers and finally, the ropers and rolers wilfully, spitefully and conspicuously schedule church/masjid "programs" on the very same days as important Hindu festivals and use that as an excuse to block roads and access pathways to the temples.

This tactical location is very often also used to ambush, lure and subtly denigrate Hinduism then convert unwary brainwashed Hindus of the lower socio economic strata who are waylaid on their way to the temples. The ladies of the families are the first to be targeted for conversion and the jehadis thereafter use them to influence all the other members of their families to convert by providing cash incentives on a per head basis.

One just has merely to see the preponderance of "churches" as well as "masjids" built in close proximity and "in your face" juxtaposition to prominent historic Hindu temples in sickular TN to verify this tactic.

These conversion mafia guys are virtually out of control and are virulently on the offensive.

CAA, UCC, population control and RTE ammendments will hit these guys so hard when an equal playing field is legally made available to all.

They are fearful of the sickular bogey that has been maliciously planted in them by the retreating britshits and a nightmare scenario that has needlessly haunted them since before independence coming true.

That a long repressed Hindu revival, a naturally justified aspiration of the Hindus after a brutal partition but one that so far has been cunningly, stealthily and artfully repressed by the BIF in a Hindu majority country using anti India and anti Hindu commie and leftshyte HINO "historians" who falsified "history" and changed the narrative to portray a false benevolence allegedly shown by venomous invaders past to brutalize and subdue a peaceful Hindu civilization, be it by the rolers or the ropers.

Yes, there have been some collaborators and traitors among the Hindus who used the situation to push their own agendas and garner power and fortune but that does not justify the wholesale whitewashing of our ancient Hindu heritage to forcibly impose alien and exclusivistic abrahamic desert cults while forcibly excluding the fundamental native ancestry and civilizational inheritance.

This wanton suppression of the majority by the so called "minorities" has never ever happened in any country in the world before and what's more, will never be allowed to happen in any other country.

Its only in India where the majority has been conned into a sullen silence and resigned indifference to tamely accept being muzzled by domineering minorities except perhaps in a brutal dictatorship like iraq under saddam.

One is not talking of wars, conquests and invasions but of happenings in the modern world and what is happening in India today (and the past tens of decades) has no parallel anywhere

The BIF is now feeling cornered but loathe to cede defeat and so new tactics like shaheenbagh have been unleashed to regain control over the old narrative that worked so well for them all these tens of decades.

Apparently, even after tens of centuries, India still remains a wet dream for these salivating, slobbering and greedy abrahamic desert cults and it is certainly not the spices of an oriental India that are now driving them but the vast potential of its human and natural resources, its huge capacity for growing food that is as yet incompletely realized especially when scientifically exploited using methods of farming and animal husbandry that have been in use in other countries for decades now and its very strategic location and finally, not to mention the crazily massive market it represents .

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Mollick.R » 14 Aug 2020 20:09

Request to mods, please highlight this post (donation details) suitably.

The UPI ID Method & UPI QR scan code method didn't worked for me, tried multiple times it was showing errors.

Finally got the website of SRI RAM JANMABHOOMI TRUST & donated from there.
Getting the website at first was tiresome,Google didn't thrown up any result even on page 2 of search results.
May be its shadow banned :!: :?: or may be the Google bot yet to crawl it properly & index it :-?


https://srjbtkshetra.org/



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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby darshan » 14 Aug 2020 21:52

Mollick.R wrote:The UPI ID Method & UPI QR scan code method didn't worked for me, tried multiple times it was showing errors.

Finally got the website of SRI RAM JANMABHOOMI TRUST & donated from there.
Getting the website at first was tiresome,Google didn't thrown up any result even on page 2 of search results.
May be its shadow banned :!: :?: or may be the Google bot yet to crawl it properly & index it :-?


Did you try searching BRF?

The trust's execution so far has been very disappointing. It was formed months ago but they didn't get anything right in terms of online presence. Donation collecting efforts were also not up to par. Multitude of overseas mandirs, trusts, organizations, individuals, etc. had requested facilities for donations as soon as the trust was formed but they failed to get on with it. And with date constantly being moved due to virus and China issues, they had more than enough time to get the campaign rolling. Heck, I even noticed them quoting BBC articles. Left me disgusted seeing the crew assembled that runs this show.


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