Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

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Karthik S
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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Karthik S » 18 Nov 2019 10:52

Sachin wrote:If it is in Hyderabad, Telengana then off course this would be an attempt by Shri. Owaisi brothers. Remenants of the old Razakkars would be there even today. And in a way it is good to see such "protests". Because this is only going to solidify the majority community with the demand to build a temple really quick getting more prominence. Think about it; is there any thing new in what they were saying? This has always been the mindset. Now it is just coming out in the open, that is all.


This is something desperately required for southern states.

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Cain Marko » 18 Nov 2019 11:16

Amber G. wrote:Meanwhile this is beyond belief ... Where in India this is taking place?
"todege todege ram mandir todege" "lathi goli khayenge Masjid vahi banyage" ..



If the video is not doctored, I'm guessing it is somewhere in south india judging by some of the writing on billboards after the ninja womens' sloganeering. But looking at the compound and the few wimmens present there with carefully orchestrated blackout of any background clues as to the whereabouts of the compound itself, my guess is that this is a setup - a video designed to draw reactions and foment trouble. Could even be paki creation. Very suspicious. In either case, it is outrageous.

On second thought - my estimation was partly wrong, here is the writeup below the video title on YT:
Maulana Nasiruddin, President of Wahdat A Islami Founding, said that the Babri Masjid will be built on the site of demolition. He said the Supreme Court had ruled against the sentiments of Muslims. Special prayers were held amid police blockade at Ujalesha Eidga under Saidabad police station under Muslim women's command. He demanded that the Supreme Court verdict be placed on the review petition Muslim Personal Law Board.


here is a link about the said organization - definitely fringe and likely with ties to SIMI - all in all a pathetic, lonely voice that even Owaisi will probly publically stay away from:
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chennai/We-are-a-religious-body-Wahdat-e-Islami/articleshow/8766448.cms

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby UlanBatori » 18 Nov 2019 19:56

^^ Is he donating State money? How does a citizen who has been in Public Service his whole life, have 116 crores to donate just like that?
Tiruppati loot no doubt?

Hope EyeTea Dept is not just watching?

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Amber G. » 18 Nov 2019 22:22

More on:
Amber G. wrote:Meanwhile this is beyond belief ... Where in India this is taking place?
"todege todege ram mandir todege" "lathi goli khayenge Masjid vahi banyage" ..


[youtube>>TtASWAEhQv4


Hyderabad cleric's daughter holds meet against Ayodhya verdict, booked for sedition
A leading Muslim cleric's daughter was on Friday booked for sedition, a day after she led a gathering of Muslim women to hold prayers against the Supreme Court judgment in the Ayodhya title suit.

A case was registered against Maulana Abdul Aleem Islahi's daughter Zilla Huma alias Huma Islahi at Saeedabad police station in the old city for organising the prayer and allegedly making provocative statement at Eidgah Ujale Shah.

About 100 women of Saeedabad area had offered the prayers called "Qunoot-e-Nazila".

The case was registered under Indian Penal Code's Sections 124A (sedition), 153A (promoting enmity among groups on grounds of religion), 295 (Deliberate and malicious acts intended to outrage religious feelings of a class by insulting its religion or beliefs).

Police Inspector K. Srinivas said no arrests were made in the case yet. "We are examining the video, and other technical evidences to identify the other accused," he said.

Speaking to media after the gathering, Huma said they prayed for restoration of Babri Masjid. She said the Supreme Court judgment was based on faith and not on evidence and facts.

The programme had triggered tension in the area as the police had imposed restrictions to prevent the gathering. The police later allowed a limited number of women to hold the prayers subject to certain conditions.

The gathering was led by Huma, daughter of Maulana Islahi, who is associated with religious group "Wahdat-e-Islami" headed by Maulana Mohammed Naseeruddin.

Maulana Islahi's son Mujahid Saleem was killed in 2004 when a team of Gujarat Police in Hyderabad opened fire to disperse a mob opposing the arrest of Maulana Naseeruddin in the case relating to murder of former Gujarat minister Haren Pandya.

Maulana Naseeruddin and others were later acquitted in the case.

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby ShyamSP » 18 Nov 2019 22:51

OmkarC wrote:Meanwhile..

YS Jagan, Andhra's Christian CM, is apparently donating 116 Crores towards the construction of Ayodhya Ram Mandir !

He's playing this double game of pro/anti Hindu, but supporting BJP national leadership on key issues at least.


I'm not sure exactly but looks like he is paying from Devadaya Sakha/Hindu Endowments ministry so it is temple money collected from various Hindu temples under AP Government control. They can rob temple money and donate and get credit for their political Party.

If Central government works to free temples from Government control in Southern states they can fund rebuilding of many, if not all, North Indian temples that got destroyed during Islamic era.

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby achit » 19 Nov 2019 03:20

Cain Marko wrote:
chetak wrote:twitter



"All we learnt was the Mughal empire"

This seems rather exaggerated and incomplete. I remember getting a solid dose of mauryan and gupta history. Not to mention loads of Maratha history. The vijayanagar empire too go lots of pages. Less so with the Cholas. Not so much the others though. Could it have something to do with not having adequate historical records or as in the case of the ahoms, being geographically limited? I mean there is only so much you can stuff into a kids brain.

And maybe it depends upon who fixes your syllabus. The cbse is more likely to be guilty than state boards in guessing

I agree with Cain, in Late 80s/Early 90s (7-10 grade) UP Board books had lot of information on Mauryan, Gupta, Harshvardhan etc. We even have chapters on Vijyanagar empire, Cholas etc. Sadly that has changed, schools in UP too are following CBSE/ICSE board and not teaching much history.

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby nachiket » 19 Nov 2019 03:44

Cain Marko wrote:"All we learnt was the Mughal empire"

This seems rather exaggerated and incomplete. I remember getting a solid dose of mauryan and gupta history. Not to mention loads of Maratha history. The vijayanagar empire too go lots of pages. Less so with the Cholas. Not so much the others though. Could it have something to do with not having adequate historical records or as in the case of the ahoms, being geographically limited? I mean there is only so much you can stuff into a kids brain.

And maybe it depends upon who fixes your syllabus. The cbse is more likely to be guilty than state boards in guessing

Yes it depends on which board your school follows. From your post I will guess MH SSC board, same as me. Unfortunately, the ICSE and CBSE board History curriculum is very different. I wonder if the Marathas get even a passing mention in the midst of the Thaparite Aurangzeb hagiography.

Even in SSC, if you remember (I am assuming we went to school around the same time period. It might be different now) we learnt Mughal Empire and Independence struggle multiple times in different years. Maratha history was in only 4th Standard and all the other Indic kingdoms (Guptas, Mauryas, Satavahanas, Cholas, Pandyas, Vijaynagara etc.) in 6th Standard. It is like they ran out of history to teach and decided, lets teach them Gandhi-Nehru or Akbar-Jahangir yet again. And of course, history stops the moment we get Independence. As a result we have legions of kids who grow up not knowing anything about the 1965 and 71 wars for example.

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby OmkarC » 19 Nov 2019 03:48

UlanBatori wrote:^^ Is he donating State money? How does a citizen who has been in Public Service his whole life, have 116 crores to donate just like that?
Tiruppati loot no doubt?

Hope EyeTea Dept is not just watching?


Not his own, of course state's money, most likely from Tirumala temple funds.. still better than DMK, congress & other anti-Hindu gangs.. there is a budding Hindu consolidation happening in Andhra, fueled by TDP and this is one attempt to thwart it.


ShyamSP wrote:
I'm not sure exactly but looks like he is paying from Devadaya Sakha/Hindu Endowments ministry so it is temple money collected from various Hindu temples under AP Government control. They can rob temple money and donate and get credit for their political Party.

If Central government works to free temples from Government control in Southern states they can fund rebuilding of many, if not all, North Indian temples that got destroyed during Islamic era.


Ya, that's a good suggestion in ideal world, but in reality could lead to a "we pay for Naarth when we dint even get special status.." argument..

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby SriKumar » 19 Nov 2019 06:48

Cain Marko wrote: If the video is not doctored, I'm guessing it is somewhere in south india judging by some of the writing on billboards after the ninja womens' sloganeering. But looking at the compound and the few wimmens present there with carefully orchestrated blackout of any background clues as to the whereabouts of the compound itself, my guess is that this is a setup - a video designed to draw reactions and foment trouble. Could even be paki creation. Very suspicious. In either case, it is outrageous.
There were enough indications (not clues but clear indications) in the original video that it was in Hyderabad, Telangana. I had posted in a post earlier. Some of the protagonists in the video would likely be descendents of the razakaars (or their neighbours) that may have heard of. Some things have not changed.

Sachin,
Shri Owasi brothers have remained remarkably calm, with just one brief statement from one brother to the effect that 'we accept the judgement but the SCI is 'not infalliable'. The other brother (one who said 'take police off the streets for 15 minutes and they would show 100 crore Hindus who is more powerful' (or something very similar) has not said anything. They are being very measured.

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby UlanBatori » 19 Nov 2019 07:30

^^ U can c y. MAD are serious: in desh, it is Behave Or Else. Whether you are One Community or Another Community. I think NaMoji has been making too many trips to Singapore?

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Kashi » 19 Nov 2019 10:01

SriKumar wrote:Sachin,
Shri Owasi brothers have remained remarkably calm, with just one brief statement from one brother to the effect that 'we accept the judgement but the SCI is 'not infalliable'. The other brother (one who said 'take police off the streets for 15 minutes and they would show 100 crore Hindus who is more powerful' (or something very similar) has not said anything. They are being very measured.


Not really, saw a video where the Older duratma was mocking the SC verdict and he said something like "masjid kya aapke abba khairaat mein le ke aaye the?"

See the video clip in the tweet.

https://twitter.com/iAnkurSingh/status/ ... 2485568514

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Amber G. » 21 Nov 2019 03:06

I put some nice posts in physics dhaga dealing with Hindu calendars. These may help to understand various calendars used and interpret historically. They may make a good reference.

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Amber G. » 21 Nov 2019 04:23

OmkarC wrote:Meanwhile..

YS Jagan, Andhra's Christian CM, is apparently donating 116 Crores towards the construction of Ayodhya Ram Mandir !

He's playing this double game of pro/anti Hindu, but supporting BJP national leadership on key issues at least.

This looks like a fake news..
In reply to your email, above message is truly false. As of now, TTD doesn’t t[ake any official decision for donating amount to Ram Mandir in Ayodhya],” the Trirupati PRO was quoted as saying by Boom Live on question of the Rs 100 crore donation.

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby OmkarC » 21 Nov 2019 06:50

Amber G. wrote:
OmkarC wrote:Meanwhile..

YS Jagan, Andhra's Christian CM, is apparently donating 116 Crores towards the construction of Ayodhya Ram Mandir !

He's playing this double game of pro/anti Hindu, but supporting BJP national leadership on key issues at least.

This looks like a fake news..
In reply to your email, above message is truly false. As of now, TTD doesn’t t[ake any official decision for donating amount to Ram Mandir in Ayodhya],” the Trirupati PRO was quoted as saying by Boom Live on question of the Rs 100 crore donation.


Journalist Sai mentioned this in his video below, usually find him trustworthy on all Nationalist Issues, but it looks like he himself said in the end "let wait and see if whether this will happen or not..":


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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby pankajs » 21 Nov 2019 18:04

THIS ..

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 151900.cms
Razing doesn’t end idol’s property rights: SC
NEW DELHI: Within the landmark Ayodhya verdict, the Supreme Court ruled that Hindu idols have an indestructible legal persona and that an idol’s destruction does not end its rights over properties dedicated to it by devotees, worshippers and believers.

“The idol constitutes the embodiment or expression of the pious purpose upon which legal personality is conferred. Destruction of the idol does not result in termination of the pious purpose and consequently the endowment,” a bench of then CJI Ranjan Gogoi and Justices S A Bobde (now CJI), D Y Chandrachud, Ashok Bhushan and S Abdul Nazeer said in its Ayodhya judgment. “The idol as an embodiment of a pious or benevolent purpose is recognised by the law as a juristic entity. The state will therefore protect property which stands vested in the idol even absent the establishment of a specific or express trust,” it added.

In what could encourage religious bodies, which exercise authority over temple endowment properties, to dig into the past to find whether invasions had led to destruction of idols and consequent confiscation of endowed properties, the SC said, “Even where the idol is destroyed, or the presence of the idol itself is intermittent or entirely absent, the legal personality created by the endowment continues to subsist.”

The court was referring to properties attached to temples without idols, or the funds raised in the name of various puja committees across India, which according to the festivals worship Ganesh, Durga and other idols and then immerse them in water.

“In our country, idols are routinely submerged in water as a matter of religious practice. It cannot be said that the pious purpose is also extinguished due to such submersion. The establishment of the image of the idol is the manner in which the pious purpose is fulfilled,” the bench said.

“A conferral of legal personality on the idol is, in effect, a recognition of the pious purpose itself and not the method through which that pious purpose is usually personified. The pious purpose may also be fulfilled where the presence of idol is intermittent or there exists a temple absent an idol depending on the deed of dedication. In all such cases, the pious purpose on which legal personality is conferred continues to subsist,” it said.

Upon making an endowment, the donor relinquishes all claims to the endowed property. The property now vests in the pious purpose at the heart of endowment, which is recognised as a legal person. The idol forms the material manifestation of the pious purpose and the consequent centre of jural relations,” it added.

The door was slammed shut on the rest of the encroachment via the PVNR era law BUT it seems another crack has been opened. I am not a lawyer but this seems encouraging.

Mover over, IF the endowment creates "non-transferable" right "at the heart of endowment", then, in theory, all land/property ever endowed in the name of deities can can be recovered even after being sold and re-sold by government itself what to talk of encroachment. This understanding can lead to some very interesting possibilities!

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby pankajs » 24 Nov 2019 00:12

K. Parasaran -- AV 30 MNTS CAPSULE [Ram Lalla Lawyers’ Team lead]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZdDJibpMro


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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby chetak » 24 Nov 2019 01:39

cry baby beedi aunty, unwanted "guest", entitled, ungrateful and opinionated, insisting on "staying" in India despite holding a valid european passport. Very islamic of her, to abuse her long suffering hosts.

taslima nasreen Verified account @taslimanasreen

If I were a judge, I would have given Ayodhya's 2.77 acres of land to govt in order to build a modern science school where students would study free. And I would also have given 5 acres of land to govt in order to build a modern hospital where patients will get free treatment.

11:35 AM - 9 Nov 2019

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Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Peregrine » 27 Nov 2019 00:46

Ayodhya issue could have been resolved earlier but for vote bank politics of some parties : Modi

The Prime Minister also said that Article 370 that gave special status to Jammu and Kashmir was a temporary provision in the Constitution but due to "some families", it was considered as permanent.

NEW DELHI : The Ayodhya matter could have been resolved much before but political parties which were in power earlier did not show the will to settle it as they saw it as a "vote bank" issue, Prime Minister Narendra Modi said Tuesday in an apparent swipe at the Congress. He also said that Article 370 that gave special status to Jammu and Kashmir was a temporary provision in the Constitution but due to "some families", it was considered as permanent.

"You know what India has suffered because of Articles 370 and 35A and you have also seen how this challenge has been resolved," Modi said at the Republic TV summit, referring to his government's abrogation of Article 370 in Jammu and Kashmir and bifurcation of the state into two Union territories.

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Anujan » 27 Nov 2019 00:59

chetak wrote:cry baby beedi aunty, unwanted "guest", entitled, ungrateful and opinionated, insisting on "staying" in India despite holding a valid european passport. Very islamic of her, to abuse her long suffering hosts.

taslima nasreen Verified account @taslimanasreen

If I were a judge, I would have given Ayodhya's 2.77 acres of land to govt in order to build a modern science school where students would study free. And I would also have given 5 acres of land to govt in order to build a modern hospital where patients will get free treatment.

11:35 AM - 9 Nov 2019


These are the kind of statements that gets my goat.

Liberals are supposed to respect other people's beliefs even if they are different from their own and tolerate and accept other people's lifestyles even if they do not live that lifestyle.

This is what they'd argue for men supporting women's rights, or for straight people supporting the right of homosexuals or for the majority to support the rights of the minority.

Except

When it comes to hinduism. Ayodhya is holy to many hindus. Yes, some do not believe in religion, some are not religious and some might not subscribe that Lord Rama was born there. But from liberal principles, liberals are supposed to respect and understand the sentiments of the religious. Except its liberalism card to wave if you wanted a school instead of a temple.

Why dont we have a parking lot instead of the mosque in Mecca? I heard traffic is pretty bad there. How about building a homeless shelter after demolishing the vatican. The catholic church, after all, has been involved in genocide, witch burning, numerous wars, pedophilia and general corruption. How about we demolish the temple mount and build a grand museum for Israel Palestine peace? While we are at it, I think all the holy places of indigenous tribes should be burnt and magnificent car factories and call centers to be built there. After all their backward beliefs are holding them from progress.

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Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Peregrine » 28 Nov 2019 01:34

Give us 5-acre plot if Sunniboard doesn't want it: Shia Waqf Board

HIGHLIGHTS

- The board said it could use the land for setting up a hospital and not a mosque

- The board added it will not approach the court but would request the government for the land

- Though the court did not recognise the Shia claim on the disputed site, the board reiterated that it should get the alternative plot if the Sunni board doesn't want it


LUCKNOW: The Uttar Pradesh Shia Central Waqf Board on Wednesday said it would ask the government to give it the five-acre plot that the Supreme Court ordered should be allotted for building a mosque, if the Sunni board rejects the offer.

But the board could use the land for setting up a hospital and not a mosque, its chairman Waseem Rizvi said.

He added that the board will not approach the court but would request the government for the land.

The Sunni Waqf Board, a main litigant in the Ram Janmabhoomi-Babri Masjid land case, is yet to decide whether to accept any alternative plot.

A five-judge bench had ruled on November 9 that a temple should be built through a trust set up the government on the disputed site in Ayodhya, where the mosque was demolished in 1992.

The Muslims, represented by the Sunni Waqf Board, should be allotted an alternative five-acre plot of land elsewhere in Ayodhya to build a mosque, it ordered.

Though the court did not recognise the Shia claim on the disputed site, Rizvi reiterated it while arguing that it should get the alternative plot if the Sunni board doesn't want it.

"We will request the government to give it to us as the Supreme Court has also accepted that the Babri mosque was built by Mir Baqi, a Shia commander, and therefore the Shias have a claim over it," he said.

The Shia Board could bring a proposal for setting up a hospital there for the welfare of all sections of society, Rizvi said, suggesting that this will end the dispute forever.

At its meeting on Wednesday, the Shia Board also decided that filing a review petition against the Supreme Court verdict could vitiate the atmosphere and Muslims should accept the judgment.

Rizvi said the board feels that the Supreme Court verdict for a Ram temple ends the Janmabhoomi-Babri Masjid dispute and is in the national interest.

The Sunni Waqf Board on Tuesday announced that it will not file a review petition against the SC verdict that went in favour of a temple at the disputed site. But it is yet to decide whether to accept the alternative five-acre plot.

The All India Personal Law Board (AIMPLB), which was not a party to the law suit, has said it will file a review petition by December 9, challenging the apex court's verdict.

In Video : Shia Central Waqf Board to build hospital, if Sunni Waqf Board refuses to accept land in Ayodhya

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby chetak » 28 Nov 2019 02:35

@Peregrine saar, ^^^^^^^

the sunnis expected large cash based + huge compensatory lands settlements and political privileges (reservations + govt jobs ityadi) for themselves and their community to be lifelong administered by a lucky few in the manner of trusts.

All this was dashed when the SC stepped in and came out with a judicial opinion.

Like jinnah, they have overplayed their hand and wound up with a "motheaten" result.

They are now trying to walk it back using the threat of reopening the case and are desperately hoping to revive that cash based+ huge compensatory lands + trust and achieve an out of court settlement.

that's why they are continuously harping on the "meager 5 acres" given by the SC as a beggarly pittance and also as a grave insult to their religion.

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Peregrine » 28 Nov 2019 03:45

chetak wrote:@Peregrine saar, ^^^^^^^

the sunnis expected large cash based + huge compensatory lands settlements and political privileges (reservations + govt jobs ityadi) for themselves and their community to be lifelong administered by a lucky few in the manner of trusts.

All this was dashed when the SC stepped in and came out with a judicial opinion.

Like jinnah, they have overplayed their hand and wound up with a "motheaten" result.

They are now trying to walk it back using the threat of reopening the case and are desperately hoping to revive that cash based+ huge compensatory lands + trust and achieve an out of court settlement.

that's why they are continuously harping on the "meager 5 acres" given by the SC as a beggarly pittance and also as a grave insult to their religion.
chetak Ji :

It could - might be - that if the Sunnis get too big for their boots then the Indian Government would seriously consider agreeing to the solution proposed by the Shias!

I would rather wait and see how the cocoon spins / how the ball bounces!

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby vishvak » 28 Nov 2019 07:57

When Rajiv Gandhi opened locks of makeshift temple after UP HC allowed it then it was called pro quo against another progressive judgement(Shah Bano vs Mullah). Hopefully this govt doesn't have do such antics for votebanks and kick the can down for others to pay, while propaganda keeps going blind to judgement.

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Sachin » 28 Nov 2019 10:29

chetak wrote:the sunnis expected large cash based + huge compensatory lands settlements and political privileges (reservations + govt jobs ityadi) for themselves and their community to be lifelong administered by a lucky few in the manner of trusts.

A Sunni v/s Shia slug fest would actually help a lot of people. It would keep both these groups occupied in fighting each other, and others can focus on actually taking the country forward. Allow these groups to fight and encourage "secular progressive forces" (!?) to mediate in their fights. Keeps every one busy.

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby chetak » 28 Nov 2019 10:59

Sachin wrote:
chetak wrote:the sunnis expected large cash based + huge compensatory lands settlements and political privileges (reservations + govt jobs ityadi) for themselves and their community to be lifelong administered by a lucky few in the manner of trusts.

A Sunni v/s Shia slug fest would actually help a lot of people. It would keep both these groups occupied in fighting each other, and others can focus on actually taking the country forward. Allow these groups to fight and encourage "secular progressive forces" (!?) to mediate in their fights. Keeps every one busy.


The shias are quiet because the business and geopolitical interests of the iranian mullahs are currently best served in this way. With the saudis business interests slowly beginning to dominate the sectarian narrative in India, the sunnis will also be gradually made to quieten down. Right now, the main instigators of the narrative are the saudi kattarpanthi NGOs and the virulent paki hate filled narrative drivers fuelled by the niazi + bajwa combo.

some urdu press, over the years, gave credence to this long game of the sunnis because the sunni muslims knew that one day they would be forced to let go, come what may.

What did the sunnis do in spain when the xtians took the land back and booted them all out. A few isolated and lonely cries in the wilderness are all that remain of "andalucia".

The same thing but on a smaller scale is playing out in India. The long suppressed truth of the horrendous and genocidal islamic invasions/rule, as well as the genocidal rule/inquisitions of the other, is now out in the public domain, forget the school curriculums and the so called rewriting of history books.

The internet, as well as SM, have ensured that this is how it is going to be and it's here to stay.

The twin genies of the Hindu awakening, as well as the outing of the deliberately concealed abrahamic onslaughts, just cannot be put back in the bottle anymore.

A lot of HINOs are in play and the narrative is being pushed from deeply vested off shore interests, the false ganga jamuni tehzeeb may have lost its lustre.

The new weapons of mass instruction are institutions like the NYT and the WAPO and the ever venomous FFNGOs.

If all this is not dealt with a very firm hand, a mass movement for further partitions will start in the mid term future with near term demands for the imposition of the sharia in "their" areas.

The results are already there for all to see in the NE.

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby chetak » 28 Nov 2019 21:13

The perfidious commies/naxals/congis have been the insidious agents of off shore BIF interests since before independence, praying, as they have always been, to the vile gods of stalin, lenin and mao.



‘Left Historians Misled Indian Muslims on Ayodhya’



‘Left Historians Misled Indian Muslims on Ayodhya’

“Hindu-Muslim relations over Ayodhya would not have deteriorated to this point if the left historians had not misled and misguided the Muslim group,” says historian Meenakshi Jain

Rahul Pandita | 15 Nov, 2019




Image

Historian Meenakshi Jain (Photo: Ashish Sharma)

In her two books on the Ayodhya issue (Rama and Ayodhya and The Battle for Rama: Case of the Temple at Ayodhya), historian Meenakshi Jain uses religious texts and judicial and land records from British India along with accounts of foreign travellers to put forth a case that Ayodhya has been a sacred site for Hindus for much longer than a group of left historians would like us to believe. Jain uses extensive court records and archaeological reports to put together a comprehensive argument that Ayodhya is not only sacred for Hindus because of faith but also for the historical evidence left behind. She speaks about the relevance of Ram in Indian thought and the “left’s convenient overlooking” of the vast corpus of evidence

Open: When does Ram first appear in Indian consciousness? What is the evidence we have—textual or otherwise?

Meenakshi Jain: Long before Valmiki Ramayana, there was this tradition of oral recitation which is called Ram Katha. This was recited orally by people specially trained in this craft. They would go from village to village reciting the story of Ram. According to scholars, Valmiki was aware of these kathas and compiled them and created that great narrative called the Ramayana. Earlier versions of these kathas have not survived. So the first evidence we have of the existence of Ram is Valmiki Ramayana.

But the left historians have argued that Ram worship is an 18th century phenomenon.

That is because they very conveniently overlook the vast corpus of evidence—literary, sculptor, archaeological, epigraphic, which show how deeply ingrained Ram was in the Indian psyche. There is a terracotta piece of second-first century BCE and it shows Ravan carrying away Sita and she is shown throwing away her ornaments so that it will help someone find her. This is a single piece. Now why would any artist depict a single piece! It is not the complete story of the Ramayana. That is how we can interpret that everybody was familiar with the story. After that we have a Ram terracotta, which is now in a museum in America, with his bow and arrow and with the word ‘Ram’ written in Brahmi on his dhoti. Terracotta is the most accessible medium of art. It can be moulded by anybody.

So why would anybody prepare such an art if they did not know that anybody could relate to it?

There is reference to public recitation of Ram’s story around second century CE. Also, if you go to temples, especially in the north, whole scenes from the Ramayana have been depicted on temple walls. So that again speaks of the public popularity of the Ramayana. And then in the 12th century, three important temples were built in honour of Ram and each had an inscription that we are creating this temple in honour of Ram. Two of those are still there, in Madhya Pradesh, and the third was the temple in Ayodhya at the disputed structure from which the inscription fell from the walls of the Masjid in 1992.

In many temple inscriptions, the rulers of those times say we are descendants of Ram. It may not be a reality because it is difficult to verify. But the fact that they related themselves to Ram shows that Ram’s story had a place in the lives of kings as much as commoners.

We will come back to the inscription you mentioned. But before that, tell us a little about the accounts of foreign travellers you have mentioned in your book as evidence of Ayodhya’s importance for Hindus.


There are several accounts that talk about the Hindu presence at the site and Hindus coming to the site, but they do not mention Muslims or namaaz. The first account is in 1608 CE by William Finch. He was travelling all over India. He said that he has been to Ayodhya and that there were Hindus there. He writes about the presence of Brahmins at Ramkot who he says record the names of Hindus who come to take a dip in the nearby river. For us, what is important is that he does not mention Muslims or namaaz. That is the point. It is very unlikely that he knows about the history of that place; he is just an observer. He had no idea that centuries later, his account will be so important in reconstructing the history of that period.

‘Left Historians Misled Indian Muslims on Ayodhya’


Image

The Treta ka Thakur inscription


The second account is by an Austrian Jesuit Joseph Tieffenthaler. He is an important source because he lived in India for 40 years and toured the Awadh area for seven-eight years. And he also died in India. He has written a lot and some of his papers were presented at science bodies abroad. He said that the Hindus have constructed a vedi, which is a cradle for a newborn. He also witnesses large gatherings of Hindus on the occasion of Ram Navami. It does not say that Muslims are also there and they are offering namaaz and that Hindus are coming and doing parikrama. So these two accounts, by what we would call neutral observers, raise a question: Did Babur just do a smash and grab job? In the sense that he demolished that temple and occupied that site.

But how can we conclude that there used to be a temple at the site?

As far as actual evidence of demolition is concerned, that has been given to us by excavations carried out by the Archaeological Survey of India [ASI] under the orders of the Allahabad High Court. The ASI carried out these under very stringent conditions set by the court. The court said that every day excavations will take place in the presence of representatives of both sides and the day’s findings will be recorded in a register signed by both sides. The excavation shows continuous occupation of that site since the second millennium BCE. And that site was never used for habitational purposes. No houses were built there. It was always a sacred site and a series of sacred structures have been found there, including the remnants of the 12th century temple.

So, when do we hear Muslim voices from Ayodhya?

In 1822, a judicial officer from the Faizabad court, Hafizullah, gives a statement that the mosque founded by Babur is situated at the birthplace of Ram. The first actual voice of a Muslim that we get from that site is only in 1858. So, from 1528 till 1858, we do not get a Muslim voice from that site. In 1856, the British annexed Awadh. But in 1857, there was the great revolt. So, they began looking after Awadh in 1858. They establish their system: judicial, revenue and law and order. It is a miracle that all these reports, complaints, counter-complaints were filed at the Faizabad district court, and they are preserved till today. No special attempt was made to preserve them. They could have fallen prey to rats, termites, rain. All these papers are from 1858 till 1947.

And we can write a book just on these. They came to light when Allahabad High Court began hearing the case. It called for all the evidence. These are all in its possession now, along with some diaries which certain officials maintained. This is the period when we get a profusion of Muslim voices.

And when does the first contestation at the site happen?

In 1858. It is a complaint which the thanedaar of Awadh [Sheetal Dubey] files. He reports that 25 Nihang Sikhs have come from Punjab and they have entered the Masjid. Masjid means the main structure, not the compound. And he reports that they have started havan and puja. Two days later, Mohammed Asghar, the muezzin of the Babri Masjid, makes a representation to the authorities, saying, ‘Please help me because these Sikhs have entered and they have created chinh [symbol] of Bhagwan, and with charcoal they have written ‘Ram Ram’ all over the walls of the Masjid.’

I must also tell you about one document which has not received the attention it deserves. In 1600, Akbar was the emperor. And he gave six bighas of land to Hanumangarhi, which is just next to the site. And this land was given for a particular duration. That grant had to be renewed in 1723. So, the priest applied for renewal to the emperor of that time. And the emperor renews that grant. What is interesting is that the scribe who records its renewal, and that is available to us, writes: ‘I am writing, I am the scribe… I am writing and recording the renewal by the present emperor and I am writing from the birthplace of Ram.’

“We have not got any concrete evidence by way of inscriptions, histories, memoirs of any kind from the party supporting the Babri group to strengthen their case”

But the pro-Babri mosque party must have also provided some evidence from their side?

All little bits of evidence tell a story and that story is only pointing in one direction. What I find very interesting is that from the modern times, when this conflict entered our lives—1989, till now—we have not got any concrete evidence by way of inscriptions, histories, memoirs of any kind from the party supporting the Babri group to strengthen their case. There is no evidence presented by the opposite side. Except to counter the evidence presented by the temple party. And that is surprising because the Masjid party had so many eminent historians.

But didn’t they also claim at one point that there was an idgah beneath the structure?

All of them said it was built on vacant land. In fact, Syed Shahabuddin [a pro-Babri Muslim leader], in a series of interviews, said that building a mosque on the site of a sacred site of another religion is banned in Islam and if proved that way, we will voluntarily hand over the site. So, this was their constant claim. Often, when they were levelling ground, pieces of temple parts would come up. But even before demolition, they never entertained the possibility that it could be built on the site of a temple.

They formulated the idgah theory when the ASI excavations began to reveal that there definitely is a structure below Babri. When that possibility became definite, then they began to say that it is not a temple but an idgah. And the Allahabad High Court asked them, ‘Till this time, you said that it was built on vacant land. Now you say it is an idgah.’ Their position kept on changing as per the evidence coming up from the other side.

Let’s talk about the excavations. They happened twice: in the 1970s under BB Lal and then in 2003. What was found in the first excavation and what changed in 2003?

In the first excavation, BB Lal was not excavating inside the Masjid but outside the boundary wall. He came across pillar bases. They stopped at the boundary wall and then reappeared. So Lal was convinced that the bases are going under the Masjid as well. So he said that he is certain there is a temple under Babri Masjid. He also said it was possible to excavate without demolishing the mosque.

‘Left Historians Misled Indian Muslims on Ayodhya’

Image

A report of the thanedaar of Awadh dated November 28, 1858

But the most extensive excavation happened in 2003 under the orders of the Allahabad High Court. This excavation threw up several articles, like animal and human figurines, a circular brick shrine.
Though damaged, its northern wall still retained provision for pranaala [water chute] and then it was found that the Babri Masjid had no foundation of its own. It was built on the walls of the temple.
According to the ASI report, there was not even a layer of air that separated the Masjid from the temple walls.

Let us come back to the inscription that you say fell from one of the walls of the Masjid when it was being demolished in 1992. What was the controversy around that?

This inscription, five-by-two feet, fell from the walls of the Masjid in 1992 and broke into two. But because it had been embedded in the wall, it was in an excellent state of preservation. You could read it very easily. The whole media was there and so many kar sevaks. I could not have put it in my pocket and planted it there. Irfan Habib [one of the prominent left historians in the pro-Babri group] must have realised the implication of this inscription. So his first instinct was to discredit it. He said it was a plant. But a plant from where? Okay, the kar sevaks planted it. But where did it come from? So he said private collection. But how come no one saw it before? Then Habib backtracked and said that the inscription had been stolen from the Lucknow museum. It was the Vishnu Hari inscription and was read by ASI’s chief epigraphist on court’s orders. It says this person who was a vassal of this king in this year built the temple for the person who destroyed the 10-headed Ravan. It is all there.

Now, another temple which Aurangzeb destroyed, Treta ka Thakur temple, is also in Ayodhya. From there, another inscription was recovered by British archaeologist A Führer, who sent it to Faizabad, and was then sent to the Lucknow museum. Kunal Kishore, who was OSD of Ayodhya cell during VP Singh’s Government, visited the Lucknow museum and took pictures of that inscription. It is badly damaged and shows only a few letters. And, of course, it was very much in place at the museum and not stolen.

One would have expected Habib to come forward and present his final opinion on this subject. He has not said a word. At the end of the day, when we can see closure, we have not heard a word from any of them. It is because every argument of theirs has been found untrue. But where is the accountability!

What role have left historians played in this whole episode?

Very negative. Their role has only poisoned the relationship between the two communities. And relations over this issue would not have deteriorated to this point if the left historians had not misled and misguided the Muslim group. And if I can add: the archaeologist KK Muhammed has in his book [Njan Enna Bharatiyan (I, an Indian)], because he was present as student of archaeology when BB Lal was excavating, said that when this controversy came up in a big way from 1989 onwards, there was a serious debate in the Muslim community that this site does not mean much to them. And that they have not offered namaaz [at the site] for decades, and it is so important for the Hindus. This is when the left stepped in.

It is a very harsh thing to say but their only role is the reason why there could be no understanding between the two communities. It is because the left has a very negative view of Hindu religion and they are also very negative about what we loosely call the Hindu civilisation. The established names have not produced one evidence.

chetak
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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby chetak » 29 Nov 2019 06:04

twitter




Check this extract from Frontline who carried this story in 2 parts. Papers submitted to Justice Liberhan Commission by agencies clearly highlights the role of Shiv Sena
Check the highlighted paragraph right on top Sounds familiar?
https://frontline.thehindu.com/static/h ... 160270.htm


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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby chetak » 29 Nov 2019 06:06

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Cain Marko
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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Cain Marko » 29 Nov 2019 07:59

chetak wrote:The perfidious commies/naxals/congis have been the insidious agents of off shore BIF interests since before independence, praying, as they have always been, to the vile gods of stalin, lenin and mao.
]

KK Muhammad says there same thing. Their role should be thoroughly investigated and legal measures should be taken as needed. It is not a bloody joke to whip up communal tensions which can cost millions of lives. First, the academic community should ostracize these rascals.

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Rony » 29 Nov 2019 10:38

No hospital or mosque or church or Gurudwara or any other structure near Ram temple please

Shias offer to build hospital in Ram’s name on 5-acre Ayodhya plot if Sunnis don’t want it

“If Sunni Waqf Board and the AIMPLB don’t want to take the 5 acres land, then it should give it to Shia Waqf Board. We will build a hospital in the name of Lord Ram. We will also build a mosque, temple, Gurudwara and a Church at the same place,” Rizvi told ANI.

“There is no dispute on Lord Ram’s name in the entire world. According to Islamic belief, any great who was born earlier than Prophet Mohammad is an ancestor of the Prophet. People of Saudi Arabia are proud because Prophet Mohammad was born there. Every Indian should be proud because thousands of years ago Lord Ram was born here,” he added.

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby chetak » 29 Nov 2019 11:15

Cain Marko wrote:
chetak wrote:The perfidious commies/naxals/congis have been the insidious agents of off shore BIF interests since before independence, praying, as they have always been, to the vile gods of stalin, lenin and mao.
]

KK Muhammad says there same thing. Their role should be thoroughly investigated and legal measures should be taken as needed. It is not a bloody joke to whip up communal tensions which can cost millions of lives. First, the academic community should ostracize these rascals.


Cain Marko ji,

That's exactly where all these termites have bored into the woodwork since independence when cha cha che che made the commies in charge of the education portfolio and the subsequent state sponsored racket the muslims turned it into by falsifying our history and creating a self perpetuating patronage network entirely supported by the gullible taxpaying Hindus. The other equally sly abrahamic cult took this racket very much further and entrenched themselves much deeper into the deep state woodwork.

The fruits of this poisonous tree are seen today in the print media, electronic media, academia, judiciary, minority run schools, and colleges, various separatist movements, dravidian cults and the entrenched congi/commie baboo(n)s laying waste to the efforts of people like Modi.

Surely, the labor party and Atlee's govt had a huge but subterranean role to play in all this, and given idiot nehru's dalliance with the commies and his fascination of all things non Hindu, it would have been a very easy slam dunk for them.

Edwina played her part to perfection.

The role of the Attlee's labor govt of the time cannot be overlooked in installing the commie/naxal termites into the Indian deep state of the time as he was the PM when the very slyly named "transfer of power" took place.

In actual fact, the britshits , in a panic, (they were mortally afraid of another 1857 which would, the second time around, given the atrocities committed by the britshits, while butchering the natives, actually have been ten times worse than the first) actually ran for their lives when they allegedly "transferred power" to the Indian state but it is cleverly portrayed as the "transfer of power" and nothing could be further from the truth. Even Goebbels would have been mightly impressed on the sheer scale of the fraud that was perpetrated on the Indians.

This "transfer of power" was a deliberate fraud played on the Indian state by the britshits and their Indian collaborators in India to keep the britshit colonial infrastructure of India and also their macaulayan human resources intact and thriving.

If indeed, we had "won" our freedom, in the true sense, there would have been a clearly defined victor and a vanquished.

The very first act of a victor is to obliterate all traces of the vanquished and start out with a clean slate. That we did not do this speaks volumes of the origins of the BIF and other deep state organs that the britshits had left embedded in the body politic of India.

Especially when the traitorous and treacherous brown baboo(n) ICS was converted overnight into the IAS without a single person being screened or scrutinized for suitability.

Around the time this "transfer of power" took place so benignly, 50 odd other colonial states also gained their independence without a single solitary gandhi to lead them.

Then how come only India needed a gandhi and 50 odd others did not need a local version of their gandhi for them to "win" their freedom.

The second fraud was the cunning creation of the commonwealth.

It gave the britshit queen the image of still being the overarching mai baap that the ignorant multitudes of India could look up to. The all powerful white rani from across the seas to whom even their president and PM kowtowed to in servile deference.

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Cain Marko » 29 Nov 2019 13:32

chetak wrote:
Cain Marko wrote:KK Muhammad says there same thing. Their role should be thoroughly investigated and legal measures should be taken as needed. It is not a bloody joke to whip up communal tensions which can cost millions of lives. First, the academic community should ostracize these rascals.


Cain Marko ji,

That's exactly where all these termites have bored into the woodwork since independence when cha cha che che made the commies in charge of the education portfolio and the subsequent state sponsored racket the muslims turned it into by falsifying our history and creating a self perpetuating patronage network entirely supported by the gullible taxpaying Hindus. The other equally sly abrahamic cult took this racket very much further and entrenched themselves much deeper into the deep state woodwork.

The fruits of this poisonous tree are seen today in the print media, electronic media, academia, judiciary, minority run schools, and colleges, various separatist movements, dravidian cults and the entrenched congi/commie baboo(n)s laying waste to the efforts of people like Modi.

Surely, the labor party and Atlee's govt had a huge but subterranean role to play in all this, and given idiot nehru's dalliance with the commies and his fascination of all things non Hindu, it would have been a very easy slam dunk for them.

Edwina played her part to perfection.

The role of the Attlee's labor govt of the time cannot be overlooked in installing the commie/naxal termites into the Indian deep state of the time as he was the PM when the very slyly named "transfer of power" took place.

In actual fact, the britshits , in a panic, (they were mortally afraid of another 1857 which would, the second time around, given the atrocities committed by the britshits, while butchering the natives, actually have been ten times worse than the first) actually ran for their lives when they allegedly "transferred power" to the Indian state but it is cleverly portrayed as the "transfer of power" and nothing could be further from the truth. Even Goebbels would have been mightly impressed on the sheer scale of the fraud that was perpetrated on the Indians.

This "transfer of power" was a deliberate fraud played on the Indian state by the britshits and their Indian collaborators in India to keep the britshit colonial infrastructure of India and also their macaulayan human resources intact and thriving.

If indeed, we had "won" our freedom, in the true sense, there would have been a clearly defined victor and a vanquished.

The very first act of a victor is to obliterate all traces of the vanquished and start out with a clean slate. That we did not do this speaks volumes of the origins of the BIF and other deep state organs that the britshits had left embedded in the body politic of India.

Especially when the traitorous and treacherous brown baboo(n) ICS was converted overnight into the IAS without a single person being screened or scrutinized for suitability.

Around the time this "transfer of power" took place so benignly, 50 odd other colonial states also gained their independence without a single solitary gandhi to lead them.

Then how come only India needed a gandhi and 50 odd others did not need a local version of their gandhi for them to "win" their freedom.

The second fraud was the cunning creation of the commonwealth.

It gave the britshit queen the image of still being the overarching mai baap that the ignorant multitudes of India could look up to. The all powerful white rani from across the seas to whom even their president and PM kowtowed to in servile deference.


Jeez sir, this is some seriously deep shit that needs proper pondering. I will read it again - I think you should take some time and elaborate on the role of Atlee Gov's role in undermining the Bhartiya identity through the above points. Should make a great title and perhaps connected folks on BRF could get it printed in something like Swarayja. Very important points for the awakening and education of all youngsters edumacated in colonial /post colonial system

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussio

Postby Vayutuvan » 30 Nov 2019 11:20

Rony wrote:No hospital or mosque or church or Gurudwara or any other structure near Ram temple please.


rony gaaru, I think it is a good proposal. Let them build a well equipped multi super speciality shree raamachandra vaidyaalaya and nothing else. I am sure Nilofer and her progeny will donate USD 100 million to establish a great research facility where ayatollahs can get rejuvenating treatments that extend their life span to 200 years or more.

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Vayutuvan » 30 Nov 2019 11:23

Cain Marko ji, please quote less. pretty please.

chetak
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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby chetak » 30 Nov 2019 15:40

Cain Marko wrote:
chetak wrote:
Cain Marko ji,

That's exactly where all these termites have bored into the woodwork since independence when cha cha che che made the commies in charge of the education portfolio and the subsequent state sponsored racket the muslims turned it into by falsifying our history and creating a self perpetuating patronage network entirely supported by the gullible taxpaying Hindus. The other equally sly abrahamic cult took this racket very much further and entrenched themselves much deeper into the deep state woodwork.

The fruits of this poisonous tree are seen today in the print media, electronic media, academia, judiciary, minority run schools, and colleges, various separatist movements, dravidian cults and the entrenched congi/commie baboo(n)s laying waste to the efforts of people like Modi.

Surely, the labor party and Atlee's govt had a huge but subterranean role to play in all this, and given idiot nehru's dalliance with the commies and his fascination of all things non Hindu, it would have been a very easy slam dunk for them.

Edwina played her part to perfection.

The role of the Attlee's labor govt of the time cannot be overlooked in installing the commie/naxal termites into the Indian deep state of the time as he was the PM when the very slyly named "transfer of power" took place.

In actual fact, the britshits , in a panic, (they were mortally afraid of another 1857 which would, the second time around, given the atrocities committed by the britshits, while butchering the natives, actually have been ten times worse than the first) actually ran for their lives when they allegedly "transferred power" to the Indian state but it is cleverly portrayed as the "transfer of power" and nothing could be further from the truth. Even Goebbels would have been mightly impressed on the sheer scale of the fraud that was perpetrated on the Indians.

This "transfer of power" was a deliberate fraud played on the Indian state by the britshits and their Indian collaborators in India to keep the britshit colonial infrastructure of India and also their macaulayan human resources intact and thriving.

If indeed, we had "won" our freedom, in the true sense, there would have been a clearly defined victor and a vanquished.

The very first act of a victor is to obliterate all traces of the vanquished and start out with a clean slate. That we did not do this speaks volumes of the origins of the BIF and other deep state organs that the britshits had left embedded in the body politic of India.

Especially when the traitorous and treacherous brown baboo(n) ICS was converted overnight into the IAS without a single person being screened or scrutinized for suitability.

Around the time this "transfer of power" took place so benignly, 50 odd other colonial states also gained their independence without a single solitary gandhi to lead them.

Then how come only India needed a gandhi and 50 odd others did not need a local version of their gandhi for them to "win" their freedom.

The second fraud was the cunning creation of the commonwealth.

It gave the britshit queen the image of still being the overarching mai baap that the ignorant multitudes of India could look up to. The all powerful white rani from across the seas to whom even their president and PM kowtowed to in servile deference.


Jeez sir, this is some seriously deep shit that needs proper pondering. I will read it again - I think you should take some time and elaborate on the role of Atlee Gov's role in undermining the Bhartiya identity through the above points. Should make a great title and perhaps connected folks on BRF could get it printed in something like Swarayja. Very important points for the awakening and education of all youngsters edumacated in colonial /post colonial system


Cain Marko ji,

I don't think that this is a mere coincidence

wasn't this the exact britshit view.

why would the commies/naxals feel compelled to push this particular narrative.

and whose interests were they hellbent on serving with this mischief

Is bose viewed as a traitor by any Indian today

twitter

In the Bombay Party Congress held of the Communist Party of India, on 23rd May 1942, a resolution was adopted by the Communist leadership officially declaring Netaji Shubhas Chandra Bose as the 'traitor' and the 'Enemy of the People'.


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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby chetak » 30 Nov 2019 16:03

Easier to convince a dacoit than a communist: Read what Dr KK Muhammad said at Mangaluru Lit Fest


Easier to convince a dacoit than a communist: Read what Dr KK Muhammad said at Mangaluru Lit Fest


Easier to convince a dacoit than a communist: Read what Dr KK Muhammad said at Mangaluru Lit Fest

KK Muhammad also stated that even the BJP government has not done enough to preserve the culture and heritage of the nation. He added that Lord Ram should also be a part of Muslim culture in India.

OPINDIA STAFF
NOVEMBER 29, 2019

KK Muhammad stated that it is easier to reason with a dacoit than with a communist

Image
Archaeologist KK Muhammed at Mangaluru Lit Fest


On Friday, Dr KK Muhammed, the former regional director of Archaeological Survey of India (ASI), who was one of the archaeologists who had unearthed a temple beneath the controversial Babri Masjid stated that it was easy to convince a dacoit but it is impossible to convince a communist.

The BJP govt was of no help. I then convinced the dreaded dacoit Nirbhay Gujjar to respect our heritage & allow me to protect it. He relented, and I was able to reconstruct as many as 80 temples. You can convince a dacoit but never a communist, says Dr KK Muhammed at @mlrlitfest. pic.twitter.com/l8RG78yiYN

— Anand Ranganathan (@ARanganathan72) November 29, 2019

Speaking at the second edition of the Mangaluru Literature Festival on the ‘Idea of Bharat’, former archaeologist Dr KK Muhammad shared his anecdotes during his days at the Archaeological Survey of India. Dr KK Muhammed spoke about how he was successful in convincing a dreaded dacoit of the Chambal valley to not only allow him to rebuild temples but also how he motivated the dacoit to take up the cause of temple restoration.

“During one of our projects to restore temples in the Chambal valley that had been ravaged in the past, I came across a dreaded dacoit named Nirbhay Singh Gujjar, who helped me to rebuild around 80 temples in areas around Bhatukeshwar and Bhojpur in Madhya Pradesh,” said Muhammed.

He added, “The BJP govt was of no help. I then convinced the dreaded dacoit Nirbhay Gujjar to respect our heritage and allow me to protect it. He relented, and I was able to reconstruct as many as 80 temples. You can convince a dacoit but never a communist.”

Narrating the incident, Muhammed also said how he was successful in convincing the dreaded dacoit of the Chambal valley to take up the cause of restoration of dozens of temples in the area built during the reign of Gurjara Pratiharas.

Dr KK Muhammed’s statements came as a response to the continuous interference of the left-wing ideologues and self-proclaimed communist historians in the Ram Mandir case. The left-wing historians had time and again attempted to debunk the ASI reports that had suggested that there was a temple beneath the controversial mosque at Ayodhya.

Even several times in the past, the former archaeologist had alleged that Left historians like Irfan Habib and Romila Thapar had thwarted attempts to arrive at a resolution to the Babri Masjid issue.

KK Muhammed was a part of the team of archaeologists which had carried out the first excavation at the site in 1976-77 that had unearthed 12 pillars of a Hindu temple at Babri Masjid site.

Dr Mohammed had said that communists did not want the Ayodhya issue to be settled and it was they who stopped Muslim organisations from handing over the disputed land to Hindus.

“The Babri issue would have been settled long ago if the Muslim intelligentsia had not fallen prey to the brainwashing by the Leftist historians. A set of historians including Romila Thapar, Bipin Chandra and S Gopal argued that there was no mention of the dismantling of the temple before 19th century and Ayodhya is Bhudhist-Jain centre. They were supported by historians Irfan Habib, RS Sharma, DN Jha, Suraj Ben and Akthar Ali,” Dr KK Muhammed had stated in the past.

Dr KK Muhammed also expressed his disappointment over the reluctance of the BJP government in conserving and promoting Indian culture and heritage. “We expected so much from the nationalist BJP govt when it came to power, but it has been six years and they have not done anything. So much of our culture and heritage lies in utter neglect. In fact, Congress was better because at least they didn’t interfere,” said Dr KK Muhammed.

“If after giving away Pakistan, India is still secular it’s because of the tolerance of the Hindu majority!”, KK Muhammad pic.twitter.com/2YDQq4x6Zd

— MALAVIKA AVINASH (@MALAVIKAAVINASH) November 29, 2019

Speaking at the literature festival, KK Muhammed also said that if Lord Rama is not part of Muslims culture in the country, he was not a perfect Muslim. “Let me be clear, India is secular only because it is a Hindu majority nation, said Dr KK Muhammed.

vishvak
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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby vishvak » 30 Nov 2019 20:16

. He relented, and I was able to reconstruct as many as 80 temples. You can convince a dacoit but never a communist

Yes, why not build a school in Afghanistan over 5 acre land since innocent muslim intellectuals have no fear of being brainwashed by communists there. They defeated USSR there.
So much of our culture and heritage lies in utter neglect. In fact, Congress was better because at least they didn’t interfere

Remember how institutions were subverted one after another simply because who was behind all that?? Not phoren educated Manmohan sir, so who was. Why complain now and blame this govt for everything - including centuries of 'neglect' etc.

Rony
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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussio

Postby Rony » 30 Nov 2019 20:39

Vayutuvan wrote:
Rony wrote:No hospital or mosque or church or Gurudwara or any other structure near Ram temple please.


rony gaaru, I think it is a good proposal. Let them build a well equipped multi super speciality shree raamachandra vaidyaalaya and nothing else. I am sure Nilofer and her progeny will donate USD 100 million to establish a great research facility where ayatollahs can get rejuvenating treatments that extend their life span to 200 years or more.


I agree that as an idea having a hospital near temple is appealing but in practical day to day life, not sure how it will turn out to be. Imagine a Apollo hospital in the same land and adjacent to Tirumala temple.

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Sachin » 30 Nov 2019 22:30

chetak wrote:why would the commies/naxals feel compelled to push this particular narrative.

Thank you for the cartoon. The communists (especially the KL & WB variety) is now desperate in hiding many of their past stances. In Kerala, the commies-socialists had called Subhash Bose "ജപ്പാൻ കാരുടെ ചെരിപ്പ് നക്കി” (literal meaning: chappal licker of the Japanese). The commies of India too seems to be a creation of the British, perhaps to help Nehru & gang have a token "secular" opposition. Think about it? The leader for the poor & down trodden, Prakash Karat had his father working for a British company in Burma who could even afford to send the son to UK. Another well off "Brahmin", Sitaram Yechuri also could lead the communist parties when he has not even won a Panchayath level election.

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby vishvak » 01 Dec 2019 06:31

Apollo hospital

What is so appealing to have a hospital next to a temple as a practice?! Where are such practices observed strictly unless a taqiya at other's religious places.


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