Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

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chetak
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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby chetak » 01 Dec 2019 06:34

vishvak wrote:
Apollo hospital

What is so appealing to have a hospital next to a temple as a practice?! Where are such practices observed strictly unless a taqiya at other's religious places.


and cater almost exclusively non dahrmic patients who will congregate there out of sheer spite

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby chetak » 01 Dec 2019 19:42

The role of the commies/naxals in undermining the organs of the Indian state, weakening the pillars of her democracy and sowing the seeds of communal dissension and being instrumental in arousing sectarian discord and rivalry and encouraging separatist tendencies in multiple regions has to be understood.

Singlehandedly, the commies have delayed by many decades, the resolution of the RJB simply to tire out the Hindus and to keep the pot boiling and to not so subtly influence the state and judiciary to accept a position that supports the age old colonial constructs that favor the islamic appropriation of Indian history, civilization and culture.

unfortunately for them, the dharmic blowback this time was too powerful to be contained by a set of unwashed and sullen BIF losers.

The judicial verdict has also taken the wind out of many a BIF sail.

equally, it has to be understood why the congis encouraged, nurtured and tolerated such a venomous bunch of anti national traitors who openly rooted for the destruction of the Indian state.

The NAC set up by the eyetalian gang is a case in point.


How the Communists betrayed India to China


How the Communists betrayed India to China

Source : SIFY
By : RSN Singh
Fri, Oct 10, 2014

The decade of 50s was characterized by romanticisation of communism in India. Such was the romance that many leaders of the post-Independence dispensation, most of who claimed to have made huge sacrifices for India's Independence, hailed the Communist takeover of China. It may be underscored that India was the first non-communist country to accord diplomatic recognition in January 1950 to China consequent to the establishment of Mao's rule.

Amongst the exceptions, who did not romanticize and saw the writing on the wall very clearly, was Sardar Patel. In his letter dated 7 November 1950 to Pt Jawaharlal Nehru, Sardar Patel wrote: "...outside the Russian Camp, we have practically been alone in championing the cause of Chinese entry into the UNO... it (China) continues to regard us with suspicion and the whole psychology is one, at least outwardly of skepticism perhaps mixed with little hostility... it looks as though it is not a friend speaking in that language but a potential enemy..."



Further Sardar Patel warned of a two-front situation after the disappearance of Tibet as a buffer country. He said: "Thus, for the first time after centuries, India's defence has to concentrate itself on two fronts simultaneously. Our defence measures have so far been based on the calculations of superiority over Pakistan. In our calculations, we shall now have to reckon with Communist China..."

How prescient!

Why did the dispensation ignore Sardar Patel's warning? Why did the dispensation, which prided itself in having achieved independence only by Satyagraha, did not find it abominable that the Communism was foreign ideology and had travelled from Russia to China after murder of more than three million and two million people in the respective countries.

Finally, when it arrived in India, the same worshipers of non-violence were so indulgent with the Communism and the Communists!

The communist leadership in India were not ideologically and physically bred in underground manner. Nor did they go through the hardship of jungles. Most of them were privileged lot, who received their education in Oxford and Cambridge in UK. It is here that they were indoctrinated by the erstwhile British masters and returned to India as diehard communists.

These so-called Communists were perfectly married to the British agenda in the pre-colonial period. Left-liberalism was the perfect tool to legitimize the colonial rule as it robbed Indians of any sense of pride in India's past. This phenomenon was not confined to India alone.

Post Cold War the mantle of patronage to left wing extremisms has gradually shifted to European countries which are using it as leverage to pursue their economic and religious agenda.

Later, these very communists , who abused Indian history, religion and Indian social structure captured academic institutions and intellectual space in India. Educational institutions in Bengal, which at one time produced such brilliant scientists, began to churn out purposeless graduates steeped in denial and negativity.


Communism, in fact, robbed Bengal of its scientific and productive temper and intellectual capital. Such was the momentum of communists that hardly any university in India was left un-impacted by their diabolical onslaught.

Even a newly established university like the JNU, far from promoting pioneering research, sunk into leftist cynicism and sterile pseudo -intellectualism.

The 50s, therefore also witnessed massive inroads by Communists in all spheres of activity and governance in India. The then government had its share of Communists or Communist sympathizers. VK Krishna Menon was more than just left leaning. Some of the declassified documents of that period are not very charitable about his international linkages. This period was also characterized by great Soviet-China communist bonhomie, and bitter and fierce Cold War.

Concomitant with the communist (ideological as well as physical) and Pakistan threat was a concerted move by the Indian dispensation to humiliate and degrade the armed forces. There were defining geopolitical developments during the period. Pakistan had joined the CENTO and SEATO, whose architect was none other than the US. The ideological fissures in the subcontinent became deep and sharp.

It had military manifestations as well. The two-front situation - further exacerbated. But the left oriented leadership continued to treat the Indian Army as colonial instrument. It is another matter that they themselves had been nurtured as colonial instruments to serve British interests. The Soviet Union which spearheaded the international communist movement therefore did not find it difficult to subvert and recruit the Indian leadership. Indian Generals during this period were trifled with. An Army Chief was told that it was none of his business to bother about China.

A Prime Minister went to the extent of saying that he does not need the Army and could do without it. Discussions were held in parliament about employment of Army in agriculture. Those who supported these moves in the parliament include some unthinkable names. With little effort these names can be ascertained.

In the 50s the ruling party did not have any insecurity on account of political opposition. There were however unfounded rather purely imagined suspicions vis-à-vis the Indian Army. No geopolitical development and no threat were strong enough to outweigh these apprehensions of the ruling class.

During that period, Ayub Khan in Pakistan, Sukarno in Indonesia and King Mahendra in Nepal, abandoned Western pattern of multi-party democracy and opted for 'grassroots democracy'. The victim of the insecurity of the Indian leadership was the Indian Army.

It was perceived as a potential villain, a perception no less fueled by the bureaucrats, who still basked in colonial hangover, wherein Oxford and Cambridge became the ultimate destination for their loved children, only to be replaced by the US later.

This sin perpetrated by the leaders on their own army, was bound to recoil, and it did in 1962.

The myopia of these thankless leaders did not extend beyond exigencies of office'. They undermined the role of INA and the Naval Mutiny in securing India's Independence, a fact authenticated by Clement Atlee. They deliberately ignored that the India, they were presiding over, was put together by none other than the Indian Army – if 1947-48 war in J&K, if Operation Polo in September 1948 and if the Liberation of Goa in 1961, was of any consideration.

Pakistan, meanwhile, had bridged the Cold War fissures with China. Our leaders bereft of strategic sense failed to realize the significance of 1947 Indo-Pak war towards creating geographical contiguity between the PoK and China. By managing to retain a certain portion of occupied territory (PoK) in Kashmir after the ceasefire, Pakistan became a direct geographic interlocutor with China.

Pakistan without the PoK would have had little strategic value for China. It would not have been able to cede 5000 sq km territory of PoK to China and 1300 Km Karakoram Highway that connects Islamabad with Kashgar in Xinjiang. Without this territory the envisaged 'Economic Corridor' linking China with Gwadar port would have also not been possible.

The fact that border negotiations between Pakistan and China had begun in 1961 and the broad principals were agreed upon within months after Indo-China war in 1962 does raise suspicion about some sort of understanding between the leadership of Pakistan and China about the Indo-China War.

These geopolitical developments when seen through the Communist or left – liberal prism in India, was not a matter of concern and priority. The nexus between Pakistan and China meant nothing to them.

India therefore deserved the rude blow from China. But for this, let us consider what would have happened.

• The destruction of the Indian Armed Forces from within would have continued and by 1965 may have rendered a situation by which there would have been nothing to stop Pak forces to Delhi.

• The Communists, who had infiltrated every organ of the State, would have in all probability taken over major portion of India. The 1962 War did politically contain them but yet they managed to retain their influence in West Bengal and Kerala. The Indian communists remained a force despite some of them openly siding with China in the 1962 War.

These communists had no qualms about China even as it supported the Naxalites and the insurgents in India's northeast. They had no qualms about the strategic partnership between Pakistan and China. Their heart continued to bleed for both these countries.

• The Indian Armed Forces, despite 1965, 1971, 1999 and years of counterinsurgency, is still struggling to find its place of honour and dignity. But for 1962, its condition by now would have been pathetic, a condition that many left liberals and bureaucrats wanted it to be in.

• But for 1962, there would have been unbridled propensity to couch criminalization as political revolution. Even now, communists use all their leverages in India and abroad to dub their criminal and anti-national activities as 'revolution'. The Indian romance about the 'Red Flag' at the cost of all other flags of productivity and progress though waning, is far from over.

• But for 1962, left-liberals would have promoted jihadi terrorism as 'revolution' with uninhibited fervor.

• But for 1962, China's Cultural Revolution would have served as an exemplar for our expanding communists.

• But for 1962, 'Binayak Sens' would have been ubiquitous.

• But for 1962 communist takeover of India was a distinct possibility. The closest India came to that was by way of an extra-constitutional authority called the National Advisory Council (packed with communists)whose principal effort was to further the communist agenda of their benefactor. This benefactor had acquired communist ideology by upbringing. There were however opposing forces capable of extracting their own price. It seemed as if Cold War had re-invented itself within the Indian ruling establishment.

Despite 1962 there has been steady supply of elements within the Indian polity, policy-makers and academia whose agenda has been to allow China to steal the march and dwarf India in international stature and prowess. It is this lobby that sabotages indigenous defence production and ensures that our foreign policy becomes hostage to vicissitudes of arms imports.

It is this lobby that that advocates that talks with China's client Pakistan continues at all costs. This lobby rather thrives on India's adversarial relationship with China. This lobby is loathe to any equal cooperative mechanisms between the countries.

But for 1962, this lobby would have placed this country under "one party rule". 1962 may as well have prevented communist takeover of India

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby pankajs » 02 Dec 2019 14:42

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 302426.cms
UP ropes in PwC to recreate Ram’s Treta Yug Ayodhya
LUCKNOW: After the Supreme Court verdict paved way for a Ram temple in Ayodhya, grandiose plans are afoot to catapult Hinduism’s most revered city to the glory of Lord Ram’s ‘treta yuga’ and surpass the Vatican and Mecca in annual footfall. And the blueprint for this magnificent makeover has been hammered out by the prestigious London-based consultancy firm, Price waterhouse Coopers (PwC).

While recreating the era of Ram at a sprawling Vedic village on Saryu banks, the PwC layout buttresses the temple town with modern infrastructure. Sources said the state government gave an “in-principle nod” to PwC’s plan earlier this week after the Sangh Parivar green flagged the mega project. The cost outlay would be worked out after every detail in the blueprint is finalized by the consultancy firm, developers and the state government.

LUCKNOW: After the Supreme Court verdict paved way for a Ram temple in Ayodhya, grandiose plans are afoot to catapult Hinduism’s most revered city to the glory of Lord Ram’s ‘treta yuga’ and surpass the Vatican and Mecca in annual footfall. And the blueprint for this magnificent makeover has been hammered out by the prestigious London-based consultancy firm, Price waterhouse Coopers (PwC).

While recreating the era of Ram at a sprawling Vedic village on Saryu banks, the PwC layout buttresses the temple town with modern infrastructure. Sources said the state government gave an “in-principle nod” to PwC’s plan earlier this week after the Sangh Parivar green flagged the mega project. The cost outlay would be worked out after every detail in the blueprint is finalized by the consultancy firm, developers and the state government.

While recreating the era of Ram at a sprawling Vedic village on Saryu banks, the PwC layout buttresses the temple town with modern infrastructure
Senior officials of the culture, tourism and other departments gave a three-hour presentation of the PwC blueprint before the Sangh brass at a closed-door meeting in Varanasi on November.

The meeting was convened to review development of Kashi, but the agenda was Ayodhya. Chief Minister Yogi Adityanath also attended the key meeting with senior government officers and there was a unanimity that Ayodhya would be transformed into a top religious destination for Hindus from across the world with worldclass infrastructure, hospitality services, renovated mutts and mandirs that would draw more pilgrims than Mecca or Vatican.

PwC, which recommended a complete revamp of infrastructure, logistics, services and ambience of the existing town, also stated that once the Ram temple is constructed, the footfalls is expected to spiral to around 2 crore annually and could outpace pilgrim count at Amritsar’s Golden Temple, which clocks 1.2 crore devotees annually. Currently, the Golden Temple draws the largest number of pilgrims at one place in India, the PwC said.

“To cater to swelling crowds to Ayodhya, the infrastructure has to be bolstered to cater to not just the wealthy, but also those from humble background,” said a senior officer, who attended the meeting. And the government plans to construct at least six 5-star hotels, seven 3-star hotels and 4,000 “dharamshalas” (inns).

Also, mutts, mandirs and lanes of Ayodhya would be renovated and beautified. Five RoBs would straddle the temple town and all roads leading to the city from Sultanpur, Basti, Prayagraj and Varanasi would be widened into six-lane for seamless traffic movement.
A couple of things to note ..
1. Don't compare out heritage with x or y. It stand on its own and that is all.
2. Preserve the soul of the city and not create concrete jungle just to compete with Singapore or any other city.
3. Keep the modern development to the periphery. Crate a ring/ringroad with the heritage Ayodhya on the inside.
4. Heritage part of the city should be built according to local aesthetics and with local materials. Clean/Repair/streamline/spruce it up but don't replace anything in the name of development.
5. Keep adequate land in reserve for future development in the periphery.
6. Good to see some focus on different state needs. With food other region focused facilities should also be made available/allowed to come up.

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby ArjunPandit » 02 Dec 2019 18:15

^actually on the other side, the city has been left to ruins by everyone..this is a welcome opportunity to undo the inaction of close to 1000 years..one thing that i find most north indian hindu places is crowd management and discipline perhaps they would do better to learn from Tirupati balaji and kerela mandirs to maintain discipline and order (not that they are perfect, but way better )

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby UlanBatori » 02 Dec 2019 18:36

...and the blueprint for this has been handed over to LONDON-BASED Price Waterhouse Coopers colonialist imperialists who will hire noble Mughal descendants from Pakistan to reap the mega-profit from this...


Will they install Churchillian gold pakistans there I wonder Those would be only 18-karat. I think we should have 24-carat. Call them "Model Brinda" for Brinda Karat.

The more things change the more they remain the same. Kaliyugam. :roll:

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby ArjunPandit » 02 Dec 2019 18:48

doesnt PWC have a strong india team? Which practice within PWC has been roped is not very clear..nevertheless it should make it truly 'secular' and RoP, RoL certified...london does have the creativity in case of buildings...afterall who doesnt like the modern day shivling ...gherkin

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby ArjunPandit » 02 Dec 2019 20:26

UlanBatori wrote:Will they install Churchillian gold pakistans there I wonder Those would be only 18-karat. I think we should have 24-carat. Call them "Model Brinda" for Brinda Karat.

interestingly its called america.
https://news.sky.com/story/solid-gold-toilet-stolen-from-winston-chuchill-birthplace-blenheim-palace-11809266
that reminds me of hitler who named a train america, inspired from the fact that they took land from natives...but then churchil was only capable of making pakistans on his own..so each one to his own capacity...

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby fanne » 02 Dec 2019 20:38

the one thing I do not like is the concrete build up that NAMO govt is doing around religious places. KV corridor looks similar, the 'Ancient Hindu' character is lost replaced by some modern jazzy look (whatever the inspiration for that is). Granted, the old one is shabby, narrow lanes, encroachment, but to replace it with something 'modern' is stooopid. Kashi, Ayodhya, Mathura, Badrinath …. are eternal cities, the design that we are imposing now, is only a fad for now (even if now is a period of 1000 years). It has to be distinctly Hindu, our unique characters. I don't think any PwC or any IT/BITY English educated Indian can do justice with it (let alone any foreigner or foreign own company). I would resurrect the city of the old, before they were sacked and before Mughal/British/Cong admin made a mess, research that (it will take modern approach to finding the old texts and interpreting them, and then building on top of that. It will take time and patience. We have until 2024 (before the next election, where SS supported parties may decide to go all secular), or few years sooner to figure and start building this out.
Wow, looking back what I have myself written, a very big task, very big undertaking. It will take a lot to get it right, and very less to get it wrong.

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Lekhraj » 02 Dec 2019 21:06

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... VsGMN.html

Review Ayodhya verdict plea reaches Supreme Court, challenges on 14 points

The petition clarified that it was seeking a review of the verdict on 14 points, not the judgment in its entirety. It argued that the court could not treat the deity as a perpetual minor for the purposes of limitation, could not correct historical wrongs and could not treat historical accounts as conclusive. It also stressed that a finding on title could not be based on archaeological findings.

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby disha » 03 Dec 2019 05:30

fanne wrote:the one thing I do not like is the concrete build up that NAMO govt is doing around religious places. KV corridor looks similar, the 'Ancient Hindu' character is lost replaced by some modern jazzy look (whatever the inspiration for that is). ...
Wow, looking back what I have myself written, a very big task, very big undertaking. It will take a lot to get it right, and very less to get it wrong.


Please read this on ground account https://swarajyamag.com/heritage/kashipath-2019-day-11-finally-in-the-colour-and-chaos-of-kashi-and-mesmerised-for-all-time-to-come

BTW, I have been asking but 'Modiji sunte nahin' (ModiJi is not listening).

1. Upto 50 lashes for people who dirty places (like spit tobacco, urinate publicly, throw dirt in public places ...)
2. 50 lashes to people who do not follow civic rules including traffic rules.

More importantly, Indians need to stop whining. KV corridor is extremely ambitious. Freeing up the temples itself was a major task. Things may not be perfect. But whining about things not being ideal and true to one's imagination is just plain wrong.

Do read the above article.

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby vishvak » 04 Dec 2019 11:31

--del--
Last edited by vishvak on 04 Dec 2019 18:00, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Sachin » 04 Dec 2019 11:48

Lekhraj wrote:The petition clarified that it was seeking a review of the verdict on 14 points, not the judgment in its entirety. It argued that the court could not treat the deity as a perpetual minor for the purposes of limitation, could not correct historical wrongs and could not treat historical accounts as conclusive. It also stressed that a finding on title could not be based on archaeological findings.

So basically; any aggression shown by the Islamic invaders should be allowed to remain in perpetuality. But thankfully they admit that building a mosque over a temple was a "historical wrong".

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Re: Ram Janmbhoomi Post-SCI Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Lekhraj » 04 Dec 2019 17:09

Sachin wrote:
Lekhraj wrote:The petition clarified that it was seeking a review of the verdict on 14 points, not the judgment in its entirety. It argued that the court could not treat the deity as a perpetual minor for the purposes of limitation, could not correct historical wrongs and could not treat historical accounts as conclusive. It also stressed that a finding on title could not be based on archaeological findings.

So basically; any aggression shown by the Islamic invaders should be allowed to remain in perpetuality. But thankfully they admit that building a mosque over a temple was a "historical wrong".


If it is wrong, then justice has to be done. So making it right is justice only. :D


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