Terroristan - November 11, 2019

[vishal]

Reality is beginning to set in.

The World Is Taking Pity on Us

“The United States reacted like Pakistan or Belarus, like a country with a shoddy infrastructure and a dysfunctional government whose leaders were too corrupt or stupid to head off mass suffering.” That’s the indictment of The Atlantic’s George Packer, calling the United States a failed state.

[Mort Walker]

This accuweather map shows entire Kashmir (including POK and Gilgit) as part of India
What am I missing?
Accuweather

They're not the only ones:

Weather Underground: https://www.wunderground.com/wundermap? ... mm=0&hur=0

[Rohit_K]

Online vermin kid in the west wants a Pakistan in North America now.

https://reddit.com/r/pakistan/comments/ ... stani_sub/

I know this is just a dream, but seeing how successful and modern western Pakistanis are here in Canada (and America), it is such a shame to see how people in Pakistan are literally the opposite. Never have I seen so much misogyny, bigotry, hateful and disgusting comments on Pakistani social media pages. These comments are a reflection of how backwards the society is. And of course on top of this, Pakistan is heavily corrupt from top to bottom, with a major extremism problem (i.e. blasphemy brigade, power hungry mullahs, and Taliban terrorists)
....
..
Every time I interact with people from Pakistan on social media, and every time my mom puts on Pakistani news on TV, it's like we live in two completely different worlds. We are NOT the same. We have the opposite views on everything. Western Pakistani culture and eastern Pakistani culture clash with one another. The only common factor would be religion, but even then so, we would be different. Islam for people in Pakistan is very rigid and conservative, ESPECIALLY when it comes to the subject of women. Western Pakistanis are more open minded when it comes to Islam.

Just saying, it would be great if major Pakistani organizations in America and Canada would come together and get us our own country. With our highly skilled and educated population, and the fact we have more kids than the average western family, we could easily be given some territory from Canada or the US. Seeing how low the density population is in these two countries (especially in places like Alaska; there is so much beauty, so many islands, and a very, very low population), it always fascinated me with the idea we could have our own modern and progressive state.

Just think about it, there is a small population crisis in Canada and America because people are having less and less kids. This impacts a lot of areas in life (that is why European countries have to bring in immigrants to fill those empty spots). We western Pakistanis, with our highly educated and skilled population, and the fact we have more kids, could easily send in an application for our own place. We might not be given our own totally independent country, but probably be a special territory of Canada or the US. And that would be great too. It would be a win-win situation. We could be like a Hong Kong to Canada or the US, both sides benefit.

[Aditya_V]

I would say make Canada population 15% with Pakis, they will display enough Pakistaniat in USA and Canada that the whole North American population will become anti Pakistan. Unlike BIF who have secured bases in foreign lands, the people of North America will ensure no one there will support Pakistan. In fact Pakistanis must display a high degree of Pakistanyat in the West and put this Mask thinking they are at risk.

Come to think of it guys like this asking for partition of Canada must be encouraged, let's see what the Goverments of Canada and USA think about it.

[sanjaykumar]

Whoa. Exclusivity, partition, you can take the Pakistani out of Pakistan but you cannot take Pakistan out of the Pakistani.

Actually Pakistanis are not particularly successful here compared to Indians or Chinese. In Canada and britain they hold jobs similar to the sikhs. Only the Sikhs are liberal to the extant that the females may work and so the household income is higher than Pakistanis. Some sikhs are also focussed on education now.

[SRajesh]

Online vermin kid in the west wants a Pakistan in North America now. We might not be given our own totally independent country, but probably be a special territory of Canada or the US. And that would be great too. It would be a win-win situation. We could be like a Hong Kong to Canada or the US, both sides benefit.

[/quote]
Just wonder what they would be exporting to(or barter trade)US and Canada: IED'S, drugs from Afghan, low skilled labour!!
Of course it will be win-win situation!!!

[Sumair]

Whoa. Exclusivity, partition, you can take the Pakistani out of Pakistan but you cannot take Pakistan out of the Pakistani.

Actually Pakistanis are not particularly successful here compared to Indians or Chinese. In Canada and britain they hold jobs similar to the sikhs. Only the Sikhs are liberal to the extant that the females may work and so the household income is higher than Pakistanis. Some sikhs are also focussed on education now.

No sir, just because Sikhs speak the same language they are not equal to pukis anywhere in the world; especially so in Canada. Just look at the upward mobility of sikh community and its political representation in Canada

[sanjaykumar]

I hope what you say is true.

[Rony]

Iran pushed 5,000 Pakistanis through border despite requests to wait — FM Qureshi

Iran has pushed around 5,000 Pakistani nationals through the border in Balochistan despite Islamabad’s request to wait until coronavirus quarantine facilities were ready for them, Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi said during a National Assembly session on Monday.

“I spoke with Iranian foreign minister and requested for a time to make arrangements (for the pilgrims), but they couldn’t do it due to economic sanctions,” Qureshi said while addressing the parliament sitting which was convened after a gap of two months.

He said Pakistan had no option but to receive its nationals.

Iran, a popular destination for Shia pilgrims, is one of the countries that have been worst affected by the pandemic and Pakistan has been blaming it for the virus spread as the neighbor is forcefully sending the pilgrims back without COVID-19 screening. In late March, the prime minister’s special assistant on public health, Dr. Zafar Mirza, said, “Eighty percent of the COVID-19-confirmed patients in Pakistan originated from Iran, which lacked the capacity to deal with an international public health emergency.”

[Philip]

Great gesture from the Iranians; take back your infected pigs!

[Aditya_V]

NDTV, Sardesai and others say play cricket with Pakistan, Ack too

Fearing Pakistan might have to give away ‘atom bomb’, Javed Miandad appeals citizens to contribute funds

He has appealed all Pakistani citizens and NRIs to contribute funds on a monthly basis

Are their traitorous NRI's who will contribute to Pakistan?

[kit]

NDTV, Sardesai and others say play cricket with Pakistan, Ack too

Fearing Pakistan might have to give away ‘atom bomb’, Javed Miandad appeals citizens to contribute funds

He has appealed all Pakistani citizens and NRIs to contribute funds on a monthly basis

Are their traitorous NRI's who will contribute to Pakistan?

i guess he is talking about NRP s .. you need to forgive their english or lack of it , besides maybe its for his fund ..after all no cricket, guy has to live

[nam]

So Minadad opened a account under his name, with a promise not to let "anyone else touch it" and asked Pakistanis to pay monthly

What a wonderful pension plan

[SSridhar]

^ He has taken a leaf out of former CJP who collected funds for the Diamar-Basha dam and swallowed it.

[Vips]

Some Gems from Terrorist Miandad asking for funds:

i) Aap ise Bhikh naa samjho Charity Samjhe

and the Best

ii) Humne issi tarah se Dam ke liye fund jamaa kiye

[mappunni]

Whoa. Exclusivity, partition, you can take the Pakistani out of Pakistan but you cannot take Pakistan out of Pakistani.

Actually Pakistanis are not particularly successful here compared to Indians or Chinese. In Canada and Britain, they hold jobs similar to the Sikhs. Only the Sikhs are liberal to the extent that the females may work and so the household income is higher than Pakistanis. Some Sikhs are also focussed on education now.

The news is that Pakistaniyat has started showing off in the big clusters of Pakistani population in Chicago, New Jersey/New York & Houston. Cousin marriages and bringing them on Visa to Khanland is very common.

A good percentage of Pakis usually pull out girls right after high school and get them married. There are quite a large number of single mothers of Pakistani origin in these areas dumped by their Cousins after they get their GC. The percentage of Pakistani women in Universities is very low compared to that of the second-generation Indian Americans.

[sanjaykumar]

Unfortunately, this also describes our own people. Sikhs in Vancouver, for example.

[ManSingh]

Unfortunately, this also describes our own people. Sikhs in Vancouver, for example.

Wonder what made you come to the above conclusion. Any specific examples of young girls pulled out of college and married off?

I have yet to see any of my cousins married off after being pulled from studies or abandoned after GC( PR ).

[sanjaykumar]

I did one of my degrees in Vancouver. I noticed that there were very few of the local community in the major university I attended. Specially so with females. I was informed that their schooling ended after high school.

[ManSingh]

I did one of my degrees in Vancouver. I noticed that there were very few of the local community in the major university I attended. Specially so with females. I was informed that their schooling ended after high school.

I have lived in Vancouver. I am a sikh with extensive family in Vancouver. Many of my and my wife's cousin( females ) hold degree(s) from SFU, BCIT and UBC etc.

Sorry to say sir, your impressions are formed by the very few exceptions that you have come across. Same with the low mobility opinion of yours. The minister of Science and Industries in Canada is a sikh.

[ArjunPandit]

i am very surprised with this impression of sikh community...based on my limited interaction, they are as progressive if not more than many of hindu communities..in fact during my stint in NYC i met a NYC based sikh cab driver...i got his no... and ended up fixing him for my all trips to JFK...the guy settled in US ~20 years back and had her daughter study through aeronautics eng..i know its just one data point..but I my sister studied in SGTB khalsa..and the the student distribution was very consistent.. even in my interactions with my few sikh friends i have never ever i found them regressive but that is on a handful of cases..again these are my own personal experiences...in any case i would not do the mistake of putting them in the same bucket as papis..

[Vivek K]

Agree with Arjun. Please do not score self goals. The Sikhs are some of the most dynamic people in India and because of their progressiveness, they have been leaders thoughout including in the freedom struggle. Hindus and Sikhs are inseparable - in Hindu families in Punjab it was a tradition that the eldest son was made a sardar. I hope this still continues. Hindus visit Gurudwaras in large numbers and Sikhs visit Hindu shrines like Vaishno Devi. The biggest difference between Sikhs and Pakistanis is that Sikhs have fought to maintain unity while Pakistanis have done their best to fragment India like in 1947. Now it seems that their (Pakistani) progressives don't like what they created by rape, loot and murder and want to start afresh!

[saip]

So Minadad opened a account under his name, with a promise not to let "anyone else touch it" and asked Pakistanis to pay monthly

What a wonderful pension plan

Isn't this guy's son married to daughter of that terrorist Dawood? Suppose he comes calling, will he refuse to give him access?

[sanjaykumar]

I am not sure why this defensiveness and need to assuage a particular community.

The Canadian minister for science and innovation is actually a business graduate. Vintage politics.

Anecdotal reports are no substitute for wider experience. Part of my job takes me up close and personal with Sikhs. They are comfortable with me as I am with them. They live some of my ideals such as a vegetarian diet and being fluent in the mother tongue. Although I do sense a defensiveness about issues such as drug and alcohol abuse etc. I don’t know why they feel they have to explain these things to me. We are on the same side.


Anyway there is no need to inflate anyone’s self esteem when it is not needed. I have a certain admiration for South Indians who speak Sanskrit and lead austere, academic lives. They don’t need me to appreciate or praise them. It is only patronising.

[nachiket]

sanjaykumar, this is the Pakistan thread. What has the Indian community in Canada have to do with this thread? Please stop the OT.

[Rony]

Coronavirus Fallout Will Test the China-Pakistan Relationship More than Ever Before

Pakistan had already been nearly a year into an onerous International Monetary Fund structural adjustment program when the coronavirus hit the world. While it’s too early to tell how the country will fare from a public health perspective, the consensus view of the multilaterals and Pakistan’s state bank is that the lockdown will drive economic growth into negative territory this year for the first time in the country’s history.

Unlike many other emerging markets, a significant post-pandemic economic bounce is not expected in Pakistan. Growth in the years that follow is projected to be in the two percent range. This low growth trap, combined with escalating U.S.-China tensions, will test relations between Beijing and Islamabad unlike ever before.

Chinese officials have described CPEC as a “flagship project” of the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI), but they don’t quite explain how exactly CPEC fits into BRI—which has become an amorphous behemoth anyway. The details of CPEC—at least in the public realm—are left to the imagination of fast-talking Pakistani officials as well as semi-official spokesmen channeling their inner Robert Kaplan. Few discuss what is being developed on the Chinese side of the border.

CPEC suffered from a paucity of planning. It is far from the “game-changer” Pakistani officials claim it to be. Astonishingly, the chief economist of the previous Pakistani government told Reuters in 2017 that CPEC would result in $6-8 billion in annual tax and toll revenue for Pakistan. And while overland trade between China and Pakistan has grown steadily in recent years, the Gwadar port—portrayed as the lynchpin of CPEC—remains more or less idle.

There is little evidence that CPEC is part of a Chinese “debt trap.” But the fundamental nature of the program has been flawed. It is heavily weighted toward debt-driven investments. And little has been asked of Pakistan (as well as other BRI countries) in terms of sustainable reform.

While the government of Pakistan power sector liabilities to China grow, so too does its debt to China. Roughly a third of Pakistan’s $28 billion in external debt repayment obligations over the next three fiscal years are to China (mainly short-term, non-CPEC loans).

Pakistan has requested that Beijing forgive or reprofile its debt and allow for the renegotiation of power purchase agreements (PPAs). Islamabad appears to be building its case. It just released a lengthy report alleging rampant fraud among independent power producers, including Chinese project sponsors that inflated their costs. The Pakistani government report claims that a high-voltage transmission line being built by a Chinese state-owned company was more than twice as expensive as a similar line constructed in India by a European company.

China has made clear that it is disinclined to forgive the debt. And it will likely resist renegotiating PPAs, which form the heart of CPEC today.

The vast majority of CPEC projects are commercial electric power plants, which have been as expensive or more expensive than projects in other regional countries. CPEC is by no means a gift to Pakistan. It has been a boon for Chinese state-owned enterprises as well as segments of the Pakistani elite.

Pakistan is learning the hard way that business between friends is still business. Beijing has intervened on behalf of Chinese state-owned companies locked into disputes with Pakistani regulators in tariff negotiations. If improving Pakistan’s export competitiveness was a priority for China, then it would not insist on exorbitant PPAs. But CPEC, on the whole, is not aid. Beijing wants to get paid. Indeed, for years, Beijing pressed Islamabad to establish a “revolving fund” that would guarantee payment to Chinese electric power producers by ensuring liquidity. Providing such a privilege for Chinese investors alone comes at the cost of reforming the power sector and disincentivizes investment from other countries.

The sovereign debt portion of CPEC would more than double should Beijing and Islamabad move forward with the $9 billion revamping of Pakistan’s main railway line, the ML-1. Already, Pakistan will struggle to repay loans for a municipal railway line in the city of Lahore, which had been delayed for years and was set to launch this March until the coronavirus hit. Should the train begin operations, social-distancing requirements might lower ridership, depressing revenue.

China and Pakistan are due for a tough discussion on debt repayment, power sector reform, and the future of CPEC. Pakistanis see their ties with China as a “special relationship.” But they are due for a disappointment.

Beijing clearly does not see CPEC as an act of charity. Chinese state-owned companies have proven to be tough negotiators, even with an “all-weather friend” like Pakistan. And Beijing has backed its firms, in part because the Belt and Road has so far been a stimulus for its “white elephant” state-owned enterprises.

If China does indeed budge, then will it ask for concessions from Pakistan in return? As U.S.-China tensions escalate, the implications of this question are far broader than they would have been months ago.

Pakistan has been a net beneficiary of multipolarity. The 2011 bin Laden raid propelled it to diversify ties, strengthen its relations with China and begin a partnership with Russia. In the multipolar era, Pakistan had maneuverability. It could pivot. But in a bipolar era, whether it is in the economic, security, or technological spaces, it may be forced to choose.

The elite discourse in Pakistan, however, is ill-equipped to address the challenge. Beijing has pulled a page out of its playbook. It knows that money talks. China has its own equivalents of the International Visitor Leadership Program and Fulbright scholarship. It funds Pakistani think tanks and pays for foreign junkets for Pakistani journalists. The Pakistani military has a growing technical relationship with its Chinese counterparts. The partnership in logistics and telecommunications is also strengthening. China is also absolutely essential in Pakistan’s efforts to counter India’s increasingly aggressive Hindu nationalist government.[/strike]

Due to rent and realpolitik, Pakistan’s elite tends not to deviate too far from official talking points when it comes to CPEC. Some Pakistanis have become evangelists for “Xi Jinping Thought” and even serve as apologists for China’s cultural genocide on Uighur Muslims, over a million of whom have been put into concentration camps. And many more Pakistanis believe in Chinese exceptionalism and see their country as betting on the right horse in the next cold war.

For much of the past generation, Pakistan was a frontline state in the U.S.-led war on terror, losing tens of thousands of its own people. It could soon emerge as a frontline state in the U.S.-China Cold War. A storm may be on its way, but Pakistan’s elite has its heads in the sand.

[nam]

So Minadad opened a account under his name, with a promise not to let "anyone else touch it" and asked Pakistanis to pay monthly

What a wonderful pension plan

Isn't this guy's son married to daughter of that terrorist Dawood? Suppose he comes calling, will he refuse to give him access?

May be the money is running out. Obviously this dude is jealous of the dimmer getting all the power, fame and unlimited marriages..

[Karan M]

Anecdotal reports are no substitute for wider experience. Part of my job takes me up close and personal with Sikhs.

You do realize its beyond ironic that you are dismissing others opinions as anecdotal while relying on anecdotal reports, i.e. your own, stating the latter to be evidence? As Nachiket said, no need for further replies, but just pointing out that your claims are not evidence.

[sanjaykumar]

How do you know I don’t look at survey data for education crime domestic abuse and alcohol dependence as part of this job.

Yes it is ironic.

[Aditya_V]

I think most of us have a completely different experience with Sikhs than this 1 poster.

[SRajesh]

https://youtu.be/CqE46j6ex20
More Rhona Dhona!!!

[vishvak]

I think most of us have a completely different experience with Sikhs than this 1 poster.

Let's not finger point or generalize either since it is pakis who are pretenders. For example,

No sir, just because Sikhs speak the same language they are not equal to pukis anywhere

Yes it is nice to be polite though reality is the other way ie just because pakis speak same language .. etc. See how araps call them miskeen and what shyt .. or such crude accusations within pakilands ie muhajir nomenclature.

[Karan M]

How do you know I don’t look at survey data for education crime domestic abuse and alcohol dependence as part of this job.

Yes it is ironic.

Did you post any of that to back up your claims, though? Nobody here is a telepath, all we could see where your constant references to your own anecdotal experience while decrying others experiences, which is what was ironic.

Eitherways, Sikhs in Canada or China or wherever are OT for this thread unless linked to TSP.

[SRajesh]

https://youtu.be/CqE46j6ex20
More Rhona Dhona!!!

If U listen to the esteemed Prof: Even the English quoted a figure of upto six Hindu/Sikh for every Peaceful killed during riots in March '47.
And he goes on to claim that Muslims were completely wiped out in East Punjab and if so what was the Hindu count.
Did Djinnah promise all sorts to Sikhs to prevent partition of Punjab!!!
Interesting titbit is he claims that if the partition were of today then the Peacefuls will have claim over all of India
The perfidious Goras should be held accountable for the biggest Genocide in human hstory!!
Interesting that US wanted the end of British Raj and forced their hand!!
Anyone has links to corroborate this claim??

[Mort Walker]

https://youtu.be/CqE46j6ex20
More Rhona Dhona!!!

If U listen to the esteemed Prof: Even the English quoted a figure of upto six Hindu/Sikh for every Peaceful killed during riots in March '47.
And he goes on to claim that Muslims were completely wiped out in East Punjab and if so what was the Hindu count.
Did Djinnah promise all sorts to Sikhs to prevent partition of Punjab!!!
Interesting titbit is he claims that if the partition were of today then the Peacefuls will have claim over all of India
The perfidious Goras should be held accountable for the biggest Genocide in human hstory!!
Interesting that US wanted the end of British Raj and forced their hand!!
Anyone has links to corroborate this claim??

You have to back up in history a bit. The British Empire under control of Churchill instituted the biggest massacre by inducing the Bengal famine from 1941-1944, with more than 4 million killed. At this time INC leaders including Gandhi were jailed but not Jinnah in order to groom him for creating a Pakiland. After Churchill lost the election in 1945, the Attlee government looked the other way during 1946 Jinnah's Direct Action progrom killing thousands of Hindus. So there remains a whole pattern of genocide by the British, which was direct and indirect, from 1941-1947.

[Sumair]

Professor seems to be telling the facts on the lines of what we heard from our elders about the partition. Such as Sikhs had the option of choice and chose India, muslims on our side were only killed as retaliation to the massacre on their side, and then they were wiped out, and British could have prevented the bloodshed if they wanted. Many other details too sound about right.
And yes if not for partition the combined muslim population of India Pakistan and Bangladesh probably be on par with Hindu population if not more. So he is not wrong in stating that muslims would have had the claim to whole of India.
As for accepting the LOC as international border, that opportunity has passed them by

[SBajwa]

Professor seems to be telling the facts on the lines of what we heard from our elders about the partition. Such as Sikhs had the option of choice and chose India, muslims on our side were only killed as retaliation to the massacre on their side, and then they were wiped out, and British could have prevented the bloodshed if they wanted. Many other details too sound about right.
And yes if not for partition the combined muslim population of India Pakistan and Bangladesh probably be on par with Hindu population if not more. So he is not wrong in stating that muslims would have had the claim to whole of India.
As for accepting the LOC as international border, that opportunity has passed them by

In Punjab Muslims started riots in March of 1947 while riots in East Punjab (Amritsar - Delhi) was only after August of 1947. Non-muslims from across the border were looking to revenge their near and dear ones they lost earlier.

My own relatives murdered many in order to get house, land, etc that they had lost in West Punjab.

[sanjaykumar]

Those were terrible terrible days. I hope your relatives found a better life in India.

[SBajwa]

yep! I had 6 uncles., 4 of them joined Armed forces and participated in wars till 1971. Same was the story across many other relatives., most of their children became officers in Armed forces.

[darshan]

What's up with onslaught of very well curated ads of Shan on YouTube?

Gotta give pukes about always knowing how to use PR to punch above their weight.