Terroristan - November 11, 2019

[srikandan]

So called "Azad Kashmir" including Muzaffarabad is PoK only, not PoL.

So you agree with the paki govt. on how that territory should be recognized? Does mean that India is not allowed to reorganize the borders of its own states as it sees fit (it has certainly done so in the rest of India)? How does the above view reconcile with the reality that the occupied territory is Indian? If it is Indian territory, India gets to redraw its internal borders. The fact that pakis are currently occupying it is just a matter to be resolved by getting pakistan out of there. Clarity begins at home.

[srikandan]

Same Praveen "grandmother crossed the LoC" Swami -- one of those people that gets to write fiction about unverifiable events in Indian newspapers. This is not the first time he is spinning a yarn with "internal, highly placed sources", as if such folks would let the likes of him anywhere near them.

[Anujan]

Deeply placed sources revealed to me that the recent covid crisis also played a part in peace overtures from Pakistan. Under the condition of anonymity they revealed that

Keeping in mind social distancing considerations, instead of coming to madrassas to plot terror attack, ISI allowed the Jihadis to plot terror attacks from home through zoom. This was highlighted by the Pakistan side as a proof of goodwill and welcomed as a positive development on the indian side.

My sources also told me that Saudis played a key role in reducing tensions. They said

Mohammad Bin Salman, who was on a visit to UK to buy bombs to drop on Yemenis, stressed to indian and pakistani envoys about the necessity of peace between neighbors and the need for brotherly relationship.

The real push came after Brexit was finalized and the offices of Boris Johnson conveyed to his indian and pakistani counterparts about the need for international alliances.

[partha]

^


_/\_

Also proof of digital Pakistan really taking off. Even India has gone digital so why can't Pakistan? All terror classes have gone online. Not only that. According to sources, apparently Imran Khan, as instructed by Bajwa recently, secretly addressed all terrorist brothers on whatsapp video and took all physical copies of terror plans targeting India out of circulation with immediate effect. Long queues were seen outside madrassas for collecting digital copies of the plans in usb drives.

[Anujan]

Apparently turkey wants to lead UN peacekeeping force in afghanistan to guarantee that Taliban is adhering to their side of the deal.

Not sure how credible this rumor is.

US - Turkey relations aren't that great. But only islamic countries are acceptable to Taliban as part of peacekeeping forces. That, plus the recent Pakistan-turkey romance. Don't know what to make of it

[sum]

TFTA polo playing jernail forced to negotiate with polo eating SDRE from south India

[Sri]

a noob q ..Does India not make cotton products for high end gora market? why should india supply cotton to paki when they are our competitors in garmet sector?

The pakis and the beedis have the advantage of quotas in the EU and other big markets which gives them an edge over India.

The pakis, since independence, have always operated in the higher end of the cotton market while the beedis operate mostly in the lower end of the same market.

china and some other countries also flood these markets.

India does not have much room to maneuver. It mostly services our local and other smaller country markets

Sir, India dominates the home textile markets in EU and US (Towels, Bed sheets and rugs). Rather one Indian company claims to produce 1 out of every 4 towels sold in US. Besides Indian manufacturers are one of the largest importers of high-end Egyptian and SUPIMA (American) cotton in the world. Cost of spinning and conversion of raw cotton into yarn is lowest here because of massive investment in tech by people like Welspun and Trident.

It's in labor intensive processes like garments where Pakistan, Bangladesh and Vietnam have a definite edge.

[yensoy]

So called "Azad Kashmir" including Muzaffarabad is PoK only, not PoL.

So you agree with the paki govt. on how that territory should be recognized? Does mean that India is not allowed to reorganize the borders of its own states as it sees fit (it has certainly done so in the rest of India)? How does the above view reconcile with the reality that the occupied territory is Indian? If it is Indian territory, India gets to redraw its internal borders. The fact that pakis are currently occupying it is just a matter to be resolved by getting pakistan out of there. Clarity begins at home.

Huh? Calm down. Pick up a map.

[Shaktimaan]

I remember all the bogus "confidence-building measures" of the past 2 decades, each thaw interrupted by another Pakistan-sponsored terrorist attack on India. I learned a lesson : talk is cheap and Pakis are liars.

So I propose a real, irreversible confidence-building measure.

A small and cheap confidence building measure to show that the Pakis are serious this time

1. Release Kulbhushan Jadhav honourably.
2. Hand over the most wanted terrorists Dawood Ibrahim, Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi and Hafeez Sayeed to face justice in India

Then we will think of talking to them...

[Bart S]

I remember all the bogus "confidence-building measures" of the past 2 decades, each thaw interrupted by another Pakistan-sponsored terrorist attack on India. I learned a lesson : talk is cheap and Pakis are liars.

So I propose a real, irreversible confidence-building measure.

A small and cheap confidence building measure to show that the Pakis are serious this time

1. Release Kulbhushan Jadhav honourably.
2. Hand over the most wanted terrorists Dawood Ibrahim, Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi and Hafeez Sayeed to face justice in India

Then we will think of talking to them...

Makes too much sense, so no GOI/baboons are going to think along those lines.

[Manish_P]

...I learned a lesson : talk is cheap and Pakis are liars.

So I propose a real, irreversible confidence-building measure.

A small and cheap confidence building measure to show that the Pakis are serious this time

1. Release Kulbhushan Jadhav honourably.
2. Hand over the most wanted terrorists Dawood Ibrahim, Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi and Hafeez Sayeed to face justice in India

...

That talk is cheap and Pakis are liars was clear to me even before I joined BRF a decade ago.. what I have learned since is that for Islamists in general, and Pakis in particular, land (territory) matters above all else. And they will sell even their mothers for it. Dawood, Lakhvi, Hafeez are all for the chop as soon as their usefulness to the Jihad military ends.

The only CBM we should demand, and then demand more, is land. Period.

[darshan]

Decades? Ages. Hindus have short memory span. GoI needs to debate debacles of Hindus everyday on TV so people remember. As an enemy I'm plotting to screw you all the time. If you're confused then you deserve it. And the book clearly says kafir and ways of dealing with them.

[Bart S]

I remember all the bogus "confidence-building measures" of the past 2 decades, each thaw interrupted by another Pakistan-sponsored terrorist attack on India. I learned a lesson : talk is cheap and Pakis are liars.

So I propose a real, irreversible confidence-building measure.

A small and cheap confidence building measure to show that the Pakis are serious this time

1. Release Kulbhushan Jadhav honourably.
2. Hand over the most wanted terrorists Dawood Ibrahim, Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi and Hafeez Sayeed to face justice in India

Then we will think of talking to them...

Makes too much sense, so no GOI/baboons are going to think along those lines.

Thankfully, Paki stupidity has surpassed our own stupidity as usual, and resulted in rollback of these stupid rescue measures for the Paki economy.
https://twitter.com/sidhant/status/1377 ... 60358?s=20

[Aditya_V]

Its probably they got no response from India and took the H&D route

[putnanja]

Ah well, "We will eat grass but build a nuclear bum" thinking is till strong! More power to them. When the enemy is in the self-destruct mode, it's best to stay silent and pray he goes through it till the end!

Here I was unnecessarily worried that it will open doors to more "trade & people-to-people contacts" which in turn will lead to more terrorist attacks in India. Thankfully, the paki stupidity has brought relief! Hoping that they continue on their tantrums and make no effort to normalize relations with India!

[srikandan]

yensoy: Huh? Calm down. Pick up a map.

I am calm. You are not looking at the Current Indian Map of India, perhaps you do not realize that.

https://ldngardener.com/world/jammu-kas ... itical-map

Here is a current map of J&K and Ladakh. If one calls Ladakh as PoK, then the above map is not correct. Wouldn't you agree? India no longer refers to that region as Pakistan Occupied Kashmir -- you can go check GoI's statements since redrawing the boundaries. The GoI's redrawing of the map is a political statement that the area called Ladakh is not Kashmir and is therefore not "contested area". The matter of it not being completely under Indian control at this time is something to be rectified in due time.

[SRajesh]

TOIlet reporting another U-turn by 'Im the Dim'
No imports until 370 restored!!
Take that you evil yindoos and all those eagerly waiting for the 'Kebab/Biryani Circuit' to start!!(And maybe hoping for the Chinese beer in Napak )

[yensoy]

yensoy: Huh? Calm down. Pick up a map.

I am calm. You are not looking at the Current Indian Map of India, perhaps you do not realize that.
https://ldngardener.com/world/jammu-kas ... itical-map
Here is a current map of J&K and Ladakh. If one calls Ladakh as PoK, then the above map is not correct. Wouldn't you agree? India no longer refers to that region as Pakistan Occupied Kashmir -- you can go check GoI's statements since redrawing the boundaries. The GoI's redrawing of the map is a political statement that the area called Ladakh is not Kashmir and is therefore not "contested area". The matter of it not being completely under Indian control at this time is something to be rectified in due time.

You really need to hang around here for a while and learn to listen & read, and understand maps. Please use the same map you referenced, and look up "Muzaffarabad" in google maps and convince yourself that there is indeed a remaining so-called PoK that is not PoL. After the reorganization of erstwhile J&K, now there is a PoL covering area roughly Gilgit-Baltistan and PoK covering "Azad Kashmir".

[srikandan]

I have been reading this forum since 1999 or so, though stopped contributing for a while. Try this out to understand what i am saying: check out the newspapers to see when was the last time Reuters or API mentioned the boilerplate last paragraph that used to be there for decades: "India and Kashmir have both been fighting for the disputed territory of Kashmir since 1947. blah". Why does it not show up these days. would be interested to see if it still is, and who is doing it? And if they continue to refer to Kashmir as disputed territory then that does not include Ladakh.

western media cannot refer to Ladakh as disputed territory since 1947 and if theey did, it implies that they have accepted the Indian version of the map, and thus the Indian view that the area belongs to India. The redrawing of boundaries wiped out all the cashmere trope from western sources that pre-cast the issue in an unhelpful way.

GoI has changed the global narrative by redrawing boundaries is my basic point, and referring it to PoK is not or rather should not be narrative of any jingo. Making them union territories removed Terrorists like the mufti clan from running the state, and a smaller J&K removed the control of the pakis in Kashmir by fiat.

[rsingh]

Makes too much sense, so no GOI/baboons are going to think along those lines.

Thankfully, Paki stupidity has surpassed our own stupidity as usual, and resulted in rollback of these stupid rescue measures for the Paki economy.
https://twitter.com/sidhant/status/1377 ... 60358?s=20

OH Thnaks. That was expected. Garma garmi khatam. Go home, have a chilled Chinese piss.

[Manish_P]

Its probably they got no response from India and took the H&D route

+1 That's probably what has happened

[Lisa]

Srikandanji

Spot on. Seize the narrative, ie cannot discuss Kashmir as we have no such state....

[g.sarkar]

https://www.dawn.com/news/1615828/cabin ... ned-to-iok
Cabinet turns down ECC decision, says 'no trade with India' until autonomy returned to IOK
Dawn, April 1, 2021
The federal cabinet on Thursday deferred the Economic Coordination Committee's (ECC) decision to allow the import of sugar, cotton and cotton yarn from India through land and sea routes. The decision has been deferred until India reinstates Article 370 of its Constitution, which guaranteed a semi-autonomous status for Indian-occupied Kashmir. Pakistan had suspended all bilateral trade with Indian following New Delhi's decision to revoke Article 370 in August 2019. "Today Cabinet stated clearly NO trade with India," Minister for Human Rights Shireen Mazari tweeted. She said Prime Minister Imran Khan had made it clear that "there can be no normalisation of relations with India until they reverse their illegal actions" regarding occupied Kashmir taken on Aug 5, 2019.
Speaking to Geo News, Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi also said the cabinet had ruled that "normalising relations with India will not be possible" until it overturned the measures it took regarding occupied Kashmir's special status. "A perception was emerging that relations with India have moved towards normalisation and trade has been opened," Qureshi said. "There was an exchange of thoughts on this and there was a unanimous opinion on this and it was the prime minister's [opinion] as well that as long as India does not review the unilateral steps it took on August 5, 2019, normalising relations with India will not be possible." Earlier today, Mazari had stated that all ECC decisions "have to be approved by the federal cabinet". "Only then they can be seen as 'approved by government'," she said, adding that the "media should be aware of this at least".
......
Gautam

[anupmisra]

Does this mean the bakis are also officially retracting the two policy speeches made by Waist Bajwa and Im-duh-Dim? Hainji?

[Anujan]

Pakis were always a conglomeration of different attitudes towards India, which reflects the local power struggle going on there.

Zardari was in there to save his own skin, make a few coins while he is in power, and was probably the least hawkish of the lot, and the Khakhis did 26/11

Badmash was a businessman, saw the writing on the wall vis-a-vis the economy, wanted to make peace, TFTAs gave us Uri

Now Bajwa wants to stabilize the rag tag economy (look at my earlier post on how Pakistan could be in deep Pakistan over Chinese loans), and somehow prop up the deeply unpopular PM who is neither popular with the masses nor finds loyalty inside his party and SMQ and others smell blood and want to play spoiler.

The basic problem is this:
Pakistan is out of money and friends. It owes a lot of money to its "friend" China. Due to tactical brilliance, they have miffed Saudis. Massa is angry/uninterested in them (Kerry is traveling to UAE, India and Bangladesh and skipping Pakistan for climate talks). India is building a military industrial complex. Only friend is Turkey. Turkey can supply diplomatic support and arms, but only for hard cash. IMF is squeezing their testimonials for raising power tariffs = they need to do at least a year or two of Taqiyya.

Hence all the noises about peace in south asia, till the next largesse from US bears fruit.

But Dimran is unpopular, there is combined opposition and demonstrations. It is unclear if he can hang on. Unpopular decisions like power tariffs are yet to come. Which means that all the rent-a-netas are looking to their political future. SMQ is a turncoat. Supported Zia, Benazir Bhutto, Badmash, Ten Percenti, Groper and now Dimran. He senses the opportunity now and is issuing statements about Cashmere. Same with Sheikh Rasheed Ahmad. He is a Jihadi who used to run training camps and has worked for everyone from Zia to Badmash, Musharraf and now Dimran. He too is raking up Cashmere.

The old problem with Pakistan surfaces. You sign an agreement with someone, there are ten other jihadis in politics and military who feel left out and want to bomb India.

[Vips]

So what if you did not show any interest to our move to open up trade.

We (Na)mard-e-momins will not allow you Kafirs to export to us. By the grace of Arrah and under the guidance of Pakistani afwaaj, the aam abduls and ayeshas will eat grass and drink piss but no kafir goods from India.

Arrah has also allowed us to do Taqiya so we will allow you to send us the free Covid Vaccines.

[g.sarkar]

https://www.dawn.com/news/1615593/chine ... ion-in-hub
Chinese company starts beer production in Hub
Saleem Shahid, March 31, 2021
QUETTA: A Chinese liquor company, the Hui Coastal Brewery and Distillery Limited, which was granted a licence in 2018 for making beer, has formally started production at its plant in Balochistan’s industrial town of Hub.
An official of the provincial excise and taxation department confirmed on Tuesday that the company had been granted a licence which it had applied for in 2017. The company registered itself with the Securities and Exchange Commission of Pakistan (SECP) on April 30, 2020, after completing installation of liquor plant in Hub town.
“The company formally started its beer production last week, which product will be supplied to Chinese nationals working at various projects launched in different areas of Pakistan under the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor and mines and mineral projects in Balochistan,” Mohammad Zaman Khan, director general, Excise and Taxation South, told Dawn.
.....
Gautam

[yensoy]

^^^^ You kaffirs need any further proof that CPEC is a game changer?

[chetak]

Does this mean the bakis are also officially retracting the two policy speeches made by Waist Bajwa and Im-duh-Dim? Hainji?

the pakis expected a much more effusive reaction to their "peace" overtures which just did not happen.

after the very brief mention by the resident pakis among the paid Indian media of niazi khan's very generous offer of "allowing" trade with India, the unending antics of mumtaz bano is far more interesting and the paid media has moved on.

the pakis have no sense of timing, and nor do they have any clue as to what the current news cycle drivers in the media are.

It's election time and the pakis simply have no traction in the Indian media and the BIF is panicked about mumtaz bano and her pet prashant kishore who are, jointly and severally, just unable to counter Modi's onslaught

The commies in bengal have been told by their leadership to "defeat" the TMC, which is another way of saying chup chap, kamal chaap.

that prized jackass moeed piszada who is supposed to be "advising" niazi khan and seems clueless about which narrative(s) the BIF paid media in India are currently driving.

there is always the possibility that the irrepressible Jaishankar may have unburdened himself of a few home truths about the paki - cheenis at Dushanbe and that would have been "back channeled" to the pakis in unmistakable terms.

niazi khan + bajwa =0
Jaishankar =1

[V_Raman]

Ground truth is that India has well and truly moved on from Pak. Such is the state of the subcontinent now. Pakis have truly lost the plot. Worse - they have showed the world that even the mighty PA cannot control the narrative! Truly a failed state!!

[CalvinH]

But thats not the best part. Pakis believe that the only problem they have is of perception. And that there are no other real problems.

The whole establishment is focused on managing narratives to maintain a good perception. From controlling internal media to recruiting people like Moeed Yusuf to creating fake twitter profiles. I remember a talk from past DG ISPR (who btw is slated to become the next Army Chief after Bajwa retires) who sincerely requested everyone to stop criticizing Pakistan for 6 months and everything will be ok. And he was serious. He created a huge social media cell in ISPR to manage social media.

[Bart S]

https://www.dawn.com/news/1615593/chine ... ion-in-hub
Chinese company starts beer production in Hub
Saleem Shahid, March 31, 2021
QUETTA: A Chinese liquor company, the Hui Coastal Brewery and Distillery Limited, which was granted a licence in 2018 for making beer, has formally started production at its plant in Balochistan’s industrial town of Hub.
An official of the provincial excise and taxation department confirmed on Tuesday that the company had been granted a licence which it had applied for in 2017. The company registered itself with the Securities and Exchange Commission of Pakistan (SECP) on April 30, 2020, after completing installation of liquor plant in Hub town.
“The company formally started its beer production last week, which product will be supplied to Chinese nationals working at various projects launched in different areas of Pakistan under the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor and mines and mineral projects in Balochistan,” Mohammad Zaman Khan, director general, Excise and Taxation South, told Dawn.
.....
Gautam

Do note this glowing description of the company by Paki media:

Sources said the Hui Coastal Brewery and Distillery Limited, which is famous for producing some of the world’s most famous liquor brands, made an investment of Rs3 million for installing a modern liquor plant on a five-acre plot of land in Hub.

And then compare with the picture in the article:
https://i.dawn.com/primary/2021/03/6063e59c30a73.jpg


The company looks like a local goli soda level operator, at least from that pic.

[Bart S]

So what if you did not show any interest to our move to open up trade.

We (Na)mard-e-momins will not allow you Kafirs to export to us. By the grace of Arrah and under the guidance of Pakistani afwaaj, the aam abduls and ayeshas will eat grass and drink piss but no kafir goods from India.

Arrah has also allowed us to do Taqiya so we will allow you to send us the free Covid Vaccines.

Apart from the Pakis, it's the Anarkalis of Arrah and their ilk in India that are most disappointed.

[rsingh]

Investment of 15 INR lakh by Chinese company......Abdul Chacha (Dubai returned) filling battles with ANDAZA. Where there is a Baki news there is fun. QED.

[g.sarkar]

What is 3 million in Pak rupees? Less than US $20,000. You can make only goli soda with this amount of capital.
The name Hui, if it means Hui Chinese Muslims, is interesting.
Gautam

[kit]

I think we should all lose focus on the pukis, they are not. Worth even the bandwidth , as regards trade and whatever forget they even exist ! . Time better to focus on getting India upto speed wrt to the "developed" nations and on the national well being . Pakis will be that basket case no one wants to touch

[KJo]

But thats not the best part. Pakis believe that the only problem they have is of perception. And that there are no other real problems.

The whole establishment is focused on managing narratives to maintain a good perception. From controlling internal media to recruiting people like Moeed Yusuf to creating fake twitter profiles. I remember a talk from past DG ISPR (who btw is slated to become the next Army Chief after Bajwa retires) who sincerely requested everyone to stop criticizing Pakistan for 6 months and everything will be ok. And he was serious. He created a huge social media cell in ISPR to manage social media.

I agree with all the posts above.

Pakis thinking that their only problem is of perception comes from H&D origins. Which means that they can be rotten inside, but as long as they are able to maintain H&D from the outside, that is all that matters. Lip-istick on a peeg, ityaadi. They managed to pull it of for decades and get away with it.

No one today cares about Pakistan in India. They are not even a factor which gives them intense khujli. Modi and team have turned Pak into a non factor and steered the narrative in such a way that siding with Pakistan runs you into a lot of trouble (like that duffer Sidhu). Pakis on SM and other places still have delusions that they matter and that they can control things in India.

My only hope is that about Pak-occupied-Ladakh, India needs to be more pro-active. Put out a document on the GoI site clearly announcing the Govt position and stating that there will be no interaction until Pak leaves PoL. Past Govts were too wimpy, there is no reason for this Govt not to do so.

Even the world is moving on from Pak, including Saudi, UAE etc. They have only a couple of masters who may throw them a few bones.

[Atmavik]

Target practice on pakis at LOC. looks like the good old IFG was used in direct fire mode. no wonder the pakis asked for a cease fire.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFd5QnMJwMQ

[kit]

[quote="Atmavik"]Target practice on pakis at LOC. looks like the good old IFG was used in direct fire mode. no wonder the pakis asked for a cease fire.

ancient weapon !.. still in service ?! kind of reminds you of those diwali rockets where everyone scurries off after being lit ., anyway who/what is that guy standing behind doing reading a handout

[chetak]

What is 3 million in Pak rupees? Less than US $20,000. You can make only goli soda with this amount of capital.
The name Hui, if it means Hui Chinese Muslims, is interesting.
Gautam

looks like a condemned and disused cheeni factory that has been transplanted and resurrected in pukiland

maybe that's why it cost them just 3 million paki rupees to transport it and set it up

the low end cheeni workers will drink any alcoholic beverage that they can get their hands on, like similar workers anywhere else