Terroristan - November 11, 2019

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 13 Aug 2020 02:50

Remember the old joke even among pakis that "Islamabad is 200 kms away from Pakistan" . So yes, Isloo is not the true representation of Pakistan's infrastructure nor its abysmal quality of life.

RCase · Post by **RCase** » 13 Aug 2020 02:53

kvraghav wrote:
Rohit_K wrote:Pakistani awaam at work. Happened in Bara, a suburb of Peshawar

https://mobile.twitter.com/pioneersaad/ ... 9247655938
Is this Imran Khans Million trees scheme?

How dare anyone interfere in Medina-i-riyasat? Bakistan needs to be a desert like Saudi Barbaria. (It 'started in the dejert').

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 13 Aug 2020 04:23

‘Imran Khan should remember I was his captain’: Javed Miandad announces entry in politics, says Pak PM lost his way.

Legendary batsman Javed Miandad on Wednesday said that he was the captain of current Prime Minister Imran Khan and will join politics to “challenge” him. Miandad said on his YouTube channel that he was the driving force for Khan, also a former captain, in cricket. Miandad said he will join politics and tell people what real politics is all about. He said after joining politics he will call a spade a spade.

Not only in the affairs of sports, I will also challenge him (Khan) in the field of politics. Imran should remember I was his captain, he said in an angry tone. The former captain claimed that he made Khan the prime minister. He went on to say that Khan lost his way and was not running the country properly. He said Khan’s appointments in the Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB) were questionable.

Miandad said Pakistani people were capable of managing the PCB and the practice of hiring people from abroad should stop. Please do not bring people from abroad to manage our cricket. Look for deserving people in Pakistan. Believe in people of Pakistan, he said.

Charsi Imran's days look numbered otherwise how can Miandad a relative of Global Terrorist and ISI/Pakjabi Army protected Dawood Ibrahim make such an open challenge to him?

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 13 Aug 2020 04:40

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 13 Aug 2020 13:07

Okay enough of praising team BHP and roads of Pakistan. Move on folks.

Analysing Pakistan as it hits newer bottoms hitherto unknown to mankind has to be a serious business. BRF has to stay ahead of the curve and this frivolous downward spiral to analysing Team BHP and praising Paki toll gates is not how we are going to stay ahead.

I think at this point their economic capacities (despite excellent toll booths), military capacities, social cohesiveness capacities and abject failure of any logical chain of thought or action for the past 73 years should be part of our discussions. Terrorism is their primary business and their revenue downfall is directly linked to reduced capabilities in doing terror attacks by Paki based terror industry Mughals can be exciting point of discussion. But certainly not Team BHP and Toll booths of I(s)loo

bharathp · Post by **bharathp** » 13 Aug 2020 21:26

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 499372.cms

Saudi Arabia has ended a loan and associated oil supply to Pakistan due to Islamabad’s criticism that Riyadh-dominated Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) is not doing enough on the Kashmir issue, signalling further deterioration in relations between the two allies.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 14 Aug 2020 03:18

https://www.rediff.com/news/column/paki ... 200813.htm
Pakistan is playing with fire
By Colonel ANIL A ATHALE (retd), August 13, 2020
Come August 14, 2020 and our Western neighbour will be entering the 74th year! Even after over seven decades, the breakaway province of India is in search of identity other than 'Not India'. In choosing to celebrate 'independence day' one day before the mother country, the urge to be one up on India has never left the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. In its search for 'not India', it embarked upon pretending to be Arabs. Currently Turkey is the flavour. The Turkish historical series, Ertugrul, has captured not just the popular imagination, but also acquired political, cultural and identity overtones in Pakistan. In a way it is a return to the past as the original Pan Islam movement began with the Khilafat movement in the 1920s when restoration of the Turkish sultan was taken up. For a very long time, the typically Turkish fez was the preferred headgear in the subcontinent as mark of religious identity. Even today the father of the Pakistani nation, Mohammad Ali Jinnah's portrait adorning the Pakistani mind and wall space is never without his fez. The elevation of Arabs to role models came with the oil boom and petro dollars after 1973. Then onwards, the Arab dress became fashionable and the skull cap became ubiquitous.
Indians obsessed with COVID-19, Chinese actions in Ladakh and the suicide drama in Bollywood have missed out the significance of a major development in Pakistan. Possibly for the first time ever, a Pakistani foreign minister criticised the Organisation of Islamic Countries in general and Saudi Arabia and other Arab countries in particular for their lack of support to Pakistan's position on Kashmir. This development came on the back of the new found bonhomie between Pakistan and Iran. The seeming shift in stance has a clear China linkage as it has stitched an anti-West alliance with Iran. If this happens, then it will mean a reversal of the Pakistani position of the last four decades of 'Arabisation' of the country. The process of Arbabisation of Pakistan was begun by Pakistan military dictator General Zia-ul Haq in the 1980s. The most visible (and ridiculous) sign of this is the planting of date palm trees along the main road in Islamabad in a mountainous area that otherwise has pine and deodar as native trees! The sight of desert palm trees on the slopes of the Himalayan foothills was indeed a signature of that era. On a more serious note, Pakistan has over the years been purging the Urdu language of its Persian influence. It must be remembered that Persian was the language of Muslim rulers in India, not Arabic.
Common expressions like 'khuda hafiz' were replaced with 'Allah Hafiz' and even Ramzan began to be called Ramadan in sync with Arab practice.
Saudi funds flowed into thousands of Pakisyani madrasas during this period with a corresponding rise in anti-Shia and anti-Iran sentiments that gave rise to frequent attacks and pogroms against the minority Shia community. Anti-Shia extremist organisations like the Sipah I Sahaba, Lashkar e Janghvi and Ahle Hadis received State patronage and help from Pakistan's armed forces. In reaction, the Shias of Pakistan formed the Tehrik e Jafaria that indulged in violence.
.....
Gautam

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 14 Aug 2020 06:03

What’s Pakistan without Saudi loan, oil and free royal jet rides for Imran Khan?

If only Pakistani diplomacy was like Ertugrul drama series. Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi is definitely not playing a warrior who can conquer nations with a sword. Or in his case, with words. Just ask the Pakistani Army Chief Qamar Javed Bajwa who now has to pick up the pieces and fix the mess Quereshi has created with Saudi Arabia.

There is loan, there is oil. And what is Pakistan without Saudi loans and oil? Well, there is always Kashmir, of course.

In a charged Kashmir-lost-and-not-found atmosphere on 5 August 2020, Quereshi threatened Saudi Arabia-led Organisation of Islamic Countries (OIC) that if Kashmir is not taken up at the ministerial level, then Pakistan will move forward “with or without” the Saudis. He was hinting at the Malaysian-Iranian-Turkish Muslim bloc that has been vocal on Kashmir post abrogation of Article 370 by India last year. His statement was a result of a year-long Pakistani frustration at not getting its way on Kashmir in the OIC because of India’s economic clout.

Pakistan was asked to repay $1billion of the Saudi loan, which it did by borrowing from China, but before Qureshi called it an economic favour to Saudi Arabia in the Covid-19 pandemic. Really? Pakistan donating money to Saudi Arabia is a bigger insult to the desert kingdom than forging another OIC without them. And, what’s worse, ARY News channel and its social media platforms censored foreign minister Qureshi by taking his comments down.

Pakistan, leader of Islamic ummah?
Pakistan nurses the grand delusion of being a self-proclaimed leader of Islamic ummah because it is a nuclear power. Pakistan believes it can mediate between Iran and Saudi Arabia, or can even smooth things up between the US and Iran, or end the war in Yemen. Like how? When you don’t have a penny in the pocket but you want to take up others’ causes instead of fixing your own house.

But after Quereshi’s outburst against Saudi Arabia, will the free rides in the Saudi crown prince Mohammed bin Salman’s personal jet come to an end for Pakistan Prime Minister Imran Khan? Or will this incident be another slap on the wrist, like one in Kuala Lumpur last year for trying to be part of an Islamic coalition?
But the more important question is: will the other Islamic brother-countries, like Turkey or Malaysia, pick up the tab for self-styled leader of Muslim world, Pakistan, the way Saudis did?

The Pakistan-Saudi bonding
It was in 2018 that the cash-strapped government of Imran Khan was extended a $6.2 billion package by Saudi Arabia. This included $3 billion in loans and oil on deferred payments worth $3.2 billion. These deals were sealed during the much-hyped visit of Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman to Pakistan last February. Now, Saudi Arabia has stopped the oil supply after the deferred payments deal expired.

For decades, Pakistan relied on Saudi Arabia financially and it used the religious and cultural front to boost those ties. During the February 2019 visit when the Imran-MBS bromance was peaking, PM himself had driven the crown prince from the airport. Khan had told MBS that he was so popular in Pakistan that he could win an election here. Lucky us. Not holding back in niceties, the Crown Prince declared himself an ambassador of Pakistan in Saudi Arabia. Couldn’t believe the nation’s luck. Later, both were seen in a horse-drawn carriage, giving an image of happily-ever-afters. But then, there are no happily-ever-afters in real life.

The Pakistani journalists who had put up the photo of slain Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi as their Twitter display pictures to show solidarity were hounded by the Pakistani government agencies for leading a social media campaign against the royal Saudi guest. Those were the days. Pakistan couldn’t tolerate such insult to the Kingdom. PM Imran Khan had his priorities clear: Pakistan was desperate and the government needed Saudi loans to avoid defaulting. Khan had attended the 2018 Riyadh investment summit even when several others had dropped out.

Every country watches its own political and economic interests first, but for some strange reason, Pakistan thinks every country should put their ‘Kashmir banega Pakistan’ interest first.

Muslim lives matter, but not in China
Imran Khan and his government stays silent over the persecution of Uighurs Muslims in China. Khan chooses to turn the other way saying: ‘Frankly, I don’t know much about it’. The reason for Pakistan’s silence over Uighurs is simple: China is a benefactor, you cannot offend China. Pakistan is indebted to China so the passion for ‘Muslim lives matter’ doesn’t apply here. Unfortunately, that is how human rights issues work.

Similarly, Saudi Arabia has economic interests in India. For Saudis, India is a viable economic partner, not a country that depends on it for bailout packages. And that Saudi Arabia is India’s fourth-largest trade partner doesn’t help Pakistan’s cause either. Same applies to Gulf countries, like the United Arab Emirates and Qatar, who also by the way, have generously extended loans to Pakistan. But the claims that Imran Khan would never ask for bheek and prefer to commit suicide over it never stand because that is exactly what Pakistan has done for survival. Beggars can’t be equal partners.

The author is a freelance journalist from Pakistan. Her Twitter handle is @nailainayat. Views are personal.

Qureshi has basically created a giant mess with SA just by opening his big mouth, and Bajwa has to now beg the Saudis for forgiveness on bent knees to fix it. Won't be surprised if Qureshi gets the boot after this.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 14 Aug 2020 06:39

It is popcorn time!!

Apparently Bajwa has gone to Saudi to smooth ruffled features. They are going to demand a head.

Interesting to see if it is SMQ's head or Dimmy's head.

CalvinH · Post by **CalvinH** » 14 Aug 2020 09:34

If Querishi isnt booted out than SA should realize that Bajwa's visit is just Taqqiya and Pakis are firmly aligned with Iran-Turkey axis against SA.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 14 Aug 2020 11:58

Booted out is cheap, Wajob ul Kattle should be minimum, along with Paki rupee touching 180 and acceptance of F-16 loss, JEm causualties and no SU 30 Kill truth.

Lohit · Post by **Lohit** » 14 Aug 2020 17:58

The UAE-Israeli pact has great potential to destabilize Pak.

Political dispensation and Mullah class will never approve of any reconciliation with Israel.

Military on the other hand will be put under a lot of pressure considering that all those cushy assignments as well as billions in property invested in the ME.

The shriller the pitch and more the tension between these two, the more destabilize Pak will get and more cut off from the Middle East. A big opportunity for our agencies".

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 14 Aug 2020 18:33

There is some times debate on Puki Talk shows on why Pakistan should not look for its own self interest and establish Diplomatic relations with Isreal. If Turkey, Jordan and Egypt can have them then why cant we? They have argued if we establish relations with Israel then we can convince them not to give latest arms to India

. Now with UAE recognising Israel this debate will start again. I am sure there will be some AOA incidents by the mullahs to make sure that does not happen.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 14 Aug 2020 21:48

Musharraf floated the idea of having relations with Israel.

Remember that international relations are based on hard nosed assessments of costs and benefits. Israel has an outreach to Pakistan, just like Russia does.

Musharraf had to downhill ski when Mullahs went all AoA on him, there was even a bomb attack on his convoy, which Ashphuck investigated and rooted out radicals within the airforce, which had placed a bomb on a bridge. Thats why bandicoot promoted Ashphuck, who would later on go to bandicoot and remove him from office. Wheels within wheels.

But I digress. Pakistan passport has the line "valid for all countries except israel". Normalizing diplomatic ties means removing that line. Removing that line means everyone is wajibull cutlet.

CalvinH · Post by **CalvinH** » 15 Aug 2020 05:16

Jordan and Egypt also were not established in the name of Islam. Pakistan will have to go against the very principle it was founded on if they move ahead with normalization of relationships with Israel.

PA leadership definitely would like to have a normal relationship but who will initiate such a dialogue in Pukistan?

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 15 Aug 2020 06:36

Paki BS on Gurdaspur district

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 15 Aug 2020 07:48

https://twitter.com/Gloeschi/status/129 ... 10571?s=20

SRajesh · Post by **SRajesh** » 15 Aug 2020 14:14

Prem wrote:Paki BS on Gurdaspur district

Premji
Here 's more BS this time by Peerzada
https://youtu.be/E6R2PexWDjs

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 16 Aug 2020 02:22

https://theprint.in/opinion/bajwa-going ... ld/481107/
Bajwa may be trying to smooth things with Saudis, but Imran Khan dreams of Neo-Ottoman world
Saudi Arabia has always bailed out Pakistan and given job opportunities. But now Imran Khan’s government is giving it ultimatums and living in a fantasy world.
HUSAIN HAQQANI 14 August, 2020
Pakistan’s army chief, General Qamar Javed Bajwa, is set to visit Saudi Arabia in an effort to end the recent tiff between the partner countries. Foreign minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi had brought disagreements between Riyadh and Islamabad out in the open by issuing an ultimatum demanding the Saudis call a meeting of the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation on the Kashmir issue.
Pakistan has been dependent on Saudi Arabia for years, seeking economic bailouts and jobs for unskilled workers whose remittances help Islamabad’s perennial balance of payments difficulties. But now, miffed Saudis are asking for the immediate return of short-term loans and have dragged their feet over completing an oil deal that ensures flow of oil to Pakistan on concessional terms.
General Bajwa’s intervention to stop the drift in ties affirms the realisation that Pakistan simply can’t afford to alienate the Saudis. Why, then, did Qureshi engage in anti-Saudi rhetoric that was unsustainable? To understand that requires an examination of the overly simplistic populism of Prime Minister Imran Khan and his backers, and the fantasy of many Pakistanis about an altered global order, with Pakistan at its centre.Another Great Game
For decades, especially since the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, retired Pakistani generals and civilian writers on strategic issues have spoken about a ‘new Great Game’ in South and Central Asia that would make Pakistan a geopolitical ‘pivot’.
This was an adaptation of British geographer Halford Mackinder’s heartland theory, submitted in 1904 when Pakistan did not exist, the United States was not yet a superpower, and airpower or the military applications of satellite and cyber technologies could not be imagined.
Pakistan’s pre-9/11 involvement in Afghanistan, its support for jihadi militants as an instrument of asymmetric warfare, and its close ties with China were all explained as part of the grand strategy to capitalise on Pakistan’s strategic location and make it a bigger player on the world stage.
Some Americans dismissed it as ‘a grand illusion’, especially in the immediate aftermath of 9/11, which forced Pakistan to seek an alliance with the United States once again. But the theory of Pakistan’s inevitable greatness, notwithstanding its economic problems and its constant dependence on outside powers, has persisted among Pakistanis.
.....
Gautam

Mukesh.Kumar · Post by **Mukesh.Kumar** » 16 Aug 2020 03:09

Very interesting take on Pakistan's Central Asia Play in the 90's. Tempted to say " Strategically Brilliant, but Tactically Disastrous"

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 16 Aug 2020 13:54

https://thediplomat.com/2020/08/is-paki ... di-arabia/
Is Pakistan Losing Saudi Arabia?
By attempting to arm-twist Riyadh on the Kashmir issue, Islamabad is undermining relations with a long-time patron.
By Sudha Ramachandran, August 13, 2020
Pakistan’s relationship with Saudi Arabia, which has been its friend and benefactor for decades, is in trouble. Last week, Pakistani Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi warned the Saudi-led Organization of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) that if it didn’t convene a meeting of the OIC’s Council of Foreign Ministers to discuss India’s abrogation of autonomy to Jammu and Kashmir on August 5 last year, Pakistan would go ahead to call a meeting of Islamic countries that would stand by it on the Kashmir issue.
In effect, Qureshi was threatening the OIC and the Saudis that Pakistan would go outside the OIC to convene a session on Kashmir.
The Saudis didn’t take kindly to Pakistan’s hectoring and have cracked the whip. They forced Pakistan to return $1 billion recently, which Islamabad repaid after Beijing came to its rescue. The two sides are now locked in tough negotiations for repayment of the rest of the debt.
In 2018, with Islamabad facing a current accounts crisis, the Saudis had extended Pakistan a $6.2 billion package, which included $3 billion in loans and oil on deferred payments worth $3.2 billion. In addition to calling in the loans, Riyadh has frozen the oil credit facility.
........
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
https://theprint.in/opinion/global-prin ... er/479353/
Oil to Kashmir — Why China, not Saudi Arabia, is Pakistan’s only Big Brother now
China has again been Pakistan’s friend — bailing it out of Saudi loans and raising the Kashmir at UNSC. But Islamabad is fast losing other friends in Islamic world.
JYOTI MALHOTRA, 11 August, 2020
It has been a good week for China and Pakistan, with Big Brother helping out its poor cousin at the UN Security Council on the Kashmir issue and even paying off its ‘EMI’ with Saudi Arabia. But the question Islamabad should be asking itself this week is, ‘Is its obsession with Jammu and Kashmir losing it both friends and influence?’
Certainly, there was little left of J&K’s special status under Article 370 even before 5 August 2019, except the fig leaf that it was somehow exceptional – although the diminishing of the state’s obligations to its citizens ever since are both immoral and unconstitutional. But of that, another time.
This week also belongs to External Affairs Minister S. Jaishankar, who on the first anniversary of the scrapping of Article 370, tweeted that “a transformation is underway” in J&K and in Ladakh, in the “application of progressive laws, delivery of social justice, advancement of women’s rights and empowerment and support for vulnerable sections”.
Sometimes it seems like the good minister has outsourced his Twitter handle to someone who lives in the Land of Gup. Salman Rushdie surely needs a sequel to his brilliant novel Haroun and the Sea of Stories to properly explain the inversion of reality where everything is somehow the opposite of what it is supposed to be, at least in the Kashmir valley.
‘Youm-e-Istehal’
Significantly, the inversion of reality has long been a hallmark of the Pakistani state, which has believed its own stories of planting the crescent moon on Srinagar’s Lal Chowk over the decades, from Operation Gibraltar in 1965 to Kargil in 1999.
Since that is never going to happen – whatever India’s own multiplicity of views on what’s happening inside J&K – it was interesting to see Pakistan foreign minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi marching down Islamabad’s main avenue on 5 August marking ‘Youm-e-Istehsal’ or Kashmir Siege Day.
Only days before, Pakistan’s infamous Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) media wing, ISPR, had asked Shafqat Amanat Ali, the Pakistani singer who has sung dozens of Bollywood songs in better times (Mitwa to Manchala), to sing about the continuing atrocities in J&K. He is said to have been paid Rs 3.8 crore for his efforts.
In fact, nothing illustrates the massive change in India-Pakistan relations than Ali’s superlative performance of Gandhi’s favourite bhajan, ‘Vaishnava jan toh”, in 2018, commissioned by then High Commissioner in Islamabad Ajay Bisaria in the hope that culture could join at least a few hearts and minds, despite surgical strikes and cross-LoC infiltrations.
Saudi closes tap, on Kashmir too
We don’t know if Ali was finally paid or not by ISPR, but Pakistan has increasingly been reduced to paying lip-service to a cause its own establishment knows is increasingly hopeless. None other than Qureshi admitted that the Organisation of Islamic Countries (OIC) was not paying heed to the Muslim world’s pain on Kashmir and not even convening a meeting, which would rap India on its knuckles.
The enormous irony of this statement cannot be underestimated. The OIC is headquartered in Saudi Arabia, which has remained the foremost and fiercest Muslim brother of Pakistan these past several decades. From bustard hunting in Pakistan’s Thar desert to setting up the 39-nation Islamic Military Counter-Terrorism Coalition in 2015, first headed by former Pakistan army chief Gen. Raheel Sharif, the Saudi-Pakistani relationship has been a thick bond. Ironically, most nations part of this Islamic military coalition are members of the OIC.
......
Gautam

nam · Post by **nam** » 16 Aug 2020 14:01

Quershi is trying to undermine the Dimmer for the PM post, positioning himself as the leader of "kashmir" narrative. Dimmer's sidekick lady is now gunning for Quershi's "foreign affairs" department.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 16 Aug 2020 14:09

nam wrote:Quershi is trying to undermine the Dimmer for the PM post, positioning himself as the leader of "kashmir" narrative. Dimmer's sidekick lady is now gunning for Quershi's "foreign affairs" department.

Sirji, the only person that matters is Pirni. She controls the Djinns. Do you know where she stands?
Gautam

nam · Post by **nam** » 16 Aug 2020 14:11

The real Pirnni, I believe is on his way to Saudi. To ask for money and lubricants. So kureshi might get the lamp post.

SRajesh · Post by **SRajesh** » 16 Aug 2020 14:32

How the unwashed abduls were taken for the ride with the dream of 'TAPI' and 'Risat-e-Medina' and land of Hoors!!!
https://youtu.be/LK4RqiV-7mc
https://propakistani.pk/2020/08/13/supr ... gidc-case/
All plans to loot the public in the name of infra structure cess!!
And Sheikh Joker
https://youtu.be/3pHzzfZ1oiM
on money laundering and Bajwa on begging trip

yensoy · Post by **yensoy** » 16 Aug 2020 15:04

Mukesh.Kumar wrote:Very interesting take on Pakistan's Central Asia Play in the 90's. Tempted to say " Strategically Brilliant, but Tactically Disastrous"
xipS91mvXEE

So like many here on BRF, I thought I knew everything about Pakistan there is to know, and was quite humbled when I watched this video. No wonder we are so committed to Afghanistan. It's not just to put pressure on Pakis. It is to ensure they don't expand further outwards and become a central Asian powerhouse. This is a game of Go. Clearly, our foreign office is well aware of this game...

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 16 Aug 2020 15:10

Initial action of Saudi visit?

Corona virus has done what cosmetic surgery couldn't do.... make Jalebi madam less scary

Yawn link - Minister says FO let down Kashmiris

Federal Minister for Human Rights Dr Shireen Mazari on Saturday expressed her disappointment over the Ministry of Foreign Affairs for “letting down the Kashmiris and (Prime Minister) Imran Khan” by not taking his nuanced narrative forward and merely resorting to traditional diplomacy.

Holding the Ministry of Foreign Affairs responsible for the country’s failure so far in internationalising the Kashmir issue in an effective manner, Dr Mazari regretted that the FO was still following ‘obsolete and uni-dimensional’ approach towards the Kashmir issue that according to her would not work in the present age of modern technology and social media.

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 16 Aug 2020 18:13

yensoy wrote:
Mukesh.Kumar wrote:Very interesting take on Pakistan's Central Asia Play in the 90's. Tempted to say " Strategically Brilliant, but Tactically Disastrous"
xipS91mvXEE
So like many here on BRF, I thought I knew everything about Pakistan there is to know, and was quite humbled when I watched this video. No wonder we are so committed to Afghanistan. It's not just to put pressure on Pakis. It is to ensure they don't expand further outwards and become a central Asian powerhouse. This is a game of Go. Clearly, our foreign office is well aware of this game...

Pakistan can become a Central Asian pest or nuisance but never powerhouse. Historically the regions occupied by Pakistan might have had flourishing links and influence in Central Asia but that was Indian Civilization not the retarded lot that Pakis are now.

Mukesh.Kumar · Post by **Mukesh.Kumar** » 16 Aug 2020 22:21

Bart S wrote:
yensoy wrote: So like many here on BRF, I thought I knew everything about Pakistan there is to know, and was quite humbled when I watched this video. No wonder we are so committed to Afghanistan. It's not just to put pressure on Pakis. It is to ensure they don't expand further outwards and become a central Asian powerhouse. This is a game of Go. Clearly, our foreign office is well aware of this game...
Pakistan can become a Central Asian pest or nuisance but never powerhouse. Historically the regions occupied by Pakistan might have had flourishing links and influence in Central Asia but that was Indian Civilization not the retarded lot that Pakis are now.

Bart S ji- Let's not fall prey to the sane bad habits as the Pakis and underestimate the enemy. Can you deny that whatever they have messed up with the Pak establishment have lobbied US, run a pretty successful asymmetric terror campaign, infiltrated using Indian Mafia and influenced through Bollywood. Acknowledgement of your enemies wins and strengths does not weaken you. It teaches us to be objective and become stronger.

SriKumar · Post by **SriKumar** » 16 Aug 2020 22:32

^^^ interesting video. THe graphics and the (literal) perspective of the presentation of 3D maps makes it more clear and impactful.
However the approach described is not that different from what was known earlier. I read an interview of M.A. Jinnah in Life magazine (circa 1947) when Margaret Burke White photographed and interview him for Life magazine. When asked about hte viability of the Pakistan state, he mentioned things about 'gateway to central asia' and 'access to somethig (ports?)'. SO this was there right from before they got independence. Sometime back poster 'Rudradev had posited the kabila model (control of territory to collect tolls/rent for access). It is the same play here- offer of transit rights and collect tolls to provide a pipiline to their ports. And they will push this 'economic model' for it as long as they can. Thanks to the video, the importance of PoK is now clear in my mind. It has less to do with water rights than it is to deny India a land route to central asia (via Afghanistan). And this also tells me that it will be China who will oppose PoK coming to India more strongly than Pakistan.

Added later: I found the article- part of it, may not be the full article. It does not specifically reference central asia (as I had stated above). Rather Jinnah pointed to a threat from Russia, with PAkistan being a bulwark against it. However, more recent history does support the thesis that PAkistan is trying to 'expand' in central asia and at the same time deny India's access to it, and IMHO, a land access to Afghanistan is key there.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 16 Aug 2020 22:34

Its not a minor tiff between Saudis & Pak. Saudis need India & USA in its Camp to tackle China. They can't have Pakis behaving like Mad dogs, aligning with China (hence Iran) while living on their Money. If India has cut off oil trading with Iran, then Saudis would have promised some quid pro quo to India. Therefore Saudis will not tolerate Bhikaris spitting on them. It "might" have very serious consequences to Pak. Pak is underestimating the problem. Saudi survival is at stake here. Saudis will hold tight to USA, India, Israel while opening channels to Russia & China. They "might" roll back radical Sunni Islam as they face Qatar led Sunnis & Iran led Shias. They need to to curb support to Iran from powerful nations. Pak better start eating Grass.

yensoy · Post by **yensoy** » 16 Aug 2020 22:59

So maybe we are looking at CPEC all wrong. Maybe the use of Gwadar for defence purposes is the minor aim (and trade being a non-aim). Maybe the unstated real purpose of CPEC is to channel a route into Afghanistan and an alternative route into land-locked Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and (over the Caspian) Azerbaijan that does not depend on Russia and Kazakhstan.

Having control of overland routes to landlocked countries is like grabbing them by the nuts. Yes there are UN protocols giving them unimpeded access but they have to deal with ground realities. If China builds and operates a grand central Asian ring road starting in Xinjiang, thru Kirgizstan, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Afghanistan, Pakistan, PoK and back to Xinjiang, they own central Asia.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 16 Aug 2020 23:40

Interesting Read, on whats at play here.

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... uit-claims.

Unfortunately the strong arm of Indian Diplomacy ie Military is too weak due to import addiction

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 17 Aug 2020 00:08

This is an interesting article by good Haqqani about what might be afoot

https://theprint.in/opinion/bajwa-going ... ld/481107/

For decades, especially since the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, retired Pakistani generals and civilian writers on strategic issues have spoken about a ‘new Great Game’ in South and Central Asia that would make Pakistan a geopolitical ‘pivot’......The impending withdrawal of US forces from Afghanistan, the prospect of a return to power of the Taliban, and the commitment of an economically stronger China, have all played a role in cementing the view that Pakistan would emerge as a key player in a new global order....Believers in Pakistan’s inevitable strategic salience expect that after Afghanistan, the US will also withdraw gradually from the Middle East. In their imagination, Pakistan would then be China’s link to the Middle East, making it Beijing’s go-to satrap in tapping Middle East oil and securing Gulf shipping lanes.....These days, Pakistan’s television commentators frequently talk about the country’s forthcoming grand role in a China-Russia-Turkey-Iran-Pakistan alliance that is destined to defeat the US-Israel-India partnership.

kit · Post by **kit** » 17 Aug 2020 00:42

RCase wrote:
kvraghav wrote: Is this Imran Khans Million trees scheme?
How dare anyone interfere in Medina-i-riyasat? Bakistan needs to be a desert like Saudi Barbaria. (It 'started in the dejert').

The buggers would have reformed long back if they did not have "aatomii taakat "

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 17 Aug 2020 12:45

Statutory warning: Contains Madam Jalebi's pictures, avoid if you are a minor, with a weak heart, stomach or with other strange medical problems:
Shah Mehmood Qureshi all set to be sacrificed on the political altar of Prime Minister Imran Khan

Gautam

rajsunder · Post by **rajsunder** » 18 Aug 2020 02:58

Gyan wrote:Its not a minor tiff between Saudis & Pak. Saudis need India & USA in its Camp to tackle China. They can't have Pakis behaving like Mad dogs, aligning with China (hence Iran) while living on their Money. If India has cut off oil trading with Iran, then Saudis would have promised some quid pro quo to India. Therefore Saudis will not tolerate Bhikaris spitting on them. It "might" have very serious consequences to Pak. Pak is underestimating the problem. Saudi survival is at stake here. Saudis will hold tight to USA, India, Israel while opening channels to Russia & China. They "might" roll back radical Sunni Islam as they face Qatar led Sunnis & Iran led Shias. They need to to curb support to Iran from powerful nations. Pak better start eating Grass.

Also remember that US us more or less a self sufficient nation with respect to crude oil. That leaves India and China as major consumers of crude.

I think China gets a major portion of its crude from sources other than middle east. Saudi is in no way going to make its biggest customer, India feel bad.

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 18 Aug 2020 08:59

China is buying Russian oil in greater quantities and is also committing to buy oil from Iran over the next 20 years. So Saudi Arabia is now left only with India and Japan as the major buyers. India is by far going to be the biggest customer for Oil with its ever growing demand and hence Saudi Arabia will need to treat India with kid gloves. For large countries it will be like a Buyers Market to leverage its size for Geo-Political gains and other concessions.

Factor in the increasing flow of Shale oil and the electric car gaining traction in the coming years and the scramble for market for oil by the GCC countries will be much more intense.

So all the Paki lurkers here just SUCK it Up. The real fun is yet to begin.

srin · Post by **srin** » 18 Aug 2020 15:09

If the Baki-Saudi breakup is true and persists (and reading it with UAE-Israel detente), then it'd be one of the biggest strategic wins for us. I like to think that it is due to Modi cultivating close relationship with Gulf states. There is a huge potential to create an axis of chors and dacoits with Bakis, Iran, China and North Korea on one side, and the rest of the world on the other.

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 18 Aug 2020 17:29

Before taking out Terroristan, its four father's need to be taken care.

Ever since UK waned, Turkey has taken its place:
1. China
2. Saudi Arabia and UAE
3. USA (just namesake under Trump and even that only because of Afghan equation). Also once a much demanded source of GC and student visas for Fauji children but not anymore.
4. Turkey

Of these, Turks are mostly providing moral support and some tech/ defence support but no moolah. If Saudi and UAE pull the plug on aid and their post covid economy naturally reduces the remittances to Pak, it will be just be left at the mercy of Cheen. Knowing the ham handed and anti muslim approach of Cheen aam zhou, and Paki perfidity, it's just a matter of time before fissures develop there.

Its very important that US does not restart the gravy train for next two years either directly or through IMF, WB.

Masha Allah!