Terroristan - November 11, 2019

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Terroristan - November 11, 2019

Postby Peregrine » 02 Jan 2020 00:12

India reserves right to ‘preemptively strike’ at sources of terror: New Army Chief warns Pakistan

The government has stuck to the seniority principle in appointing Lt Gen Naravane as the next chief as he is the senior-most officer in the Army after Gen Rawat.

Giving a strong signal to Pakistan, new Army Chief Mukund Naravane on Tuesday targetted Pakistan saying their repeated denial on use of terrorism as state policy won’t last long.

“Our neighbour is trying to use terrorism as a tool of state policy, as a way of carrying out a proxy war against us. While maintaining deniability. However, this state can’t last long, as they say, you can’t fool all the people, all the time,” said Narvane in an interview to ANI, hours after taking charge as the Chief of Army Staff.

In a stern message to Pakistan, he also said “India reserves the right to preemptively strike at sources of terror threat” if the neighbouring country does not stop state-sponsored terrorism.

On a question about the abrogation of Article 370, Gen Naravane said the Pakistan Army’s all-out efforts to deflect attention from state-sponsored terrorism has been a total failure and that the “situation in Kashmir has improved significantly after the abrogation of Article 370”.

Asked how he will deal with Pakistan backed terrorism, he said, “Multiple options across the spectrum of conflict are on the table to respond to any act of terror sponsored or abetted by Pakistan.”

On security challenges along the 3,500 km border with China, Gen Naravane said the focus has shifted from the Western border to the Northern border as part of re-balancing priorities. “We will continue to improve capability building along the Northern border so we are prepared when the need arises,” he said.

Earlier in the day, Naravane took charge as the Chief of Army Staff, succeeding General Bipin Rawat.

The government has stuck to the seniority principle in appointing Lt. Gen. Naravane as the next chief as he is the senior-most officer in the Army after Gen. Rawat. He will serve till April 2022, when he turns 62.

General Naravane had taken charge as the Vice Chief on September 1; before that, he headed the Eastern Command of the Indian Army.

In his nearly four decades in the Army, Lt Gen Naravane has worked in key appointments in active counterinsurgency environments, both in the Northeast and in Jammu and Kashmir, according to the Army. He was also part of the Indian Peace Keeping Force in Sri Lanka during Operation PAWAN in 1987.



He has been decorated with the Param Vishisht Seva Medal and the Ati Vishisht Seva Medal during his career. He was also the Inspector General of Assam Rifles (North) in Nagaland. He also commanded a Rashtriya Rifles battalion in Jammu and Kashmir and an infantry brigade on the eastern front.

An alumnus of the National Defence Academy, Lt Gen Naravane was commissioned into the 7th Battalion of The Sikh Light Infantry Regiment in June 1980. Hailing from Pune, his father, Mukund Naravane, had retired from the Indian Air Force, and his mother, Sudha Naravane, was a writer and news broadcaster with All Indian Radio in Pune. She died last year.

Bipin Rawat, who retired on Tuesday as the Army chief, is set to take over as the first Chief of Defence Staff (CDS)

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Terroristan - November 11, 2019

Postby Peregrine » 02 Jan 2020 00:27

Guddu wrote:https://youtu.be/jnHIpQUyquY



Around 7 min onwards, Arif says Pak is planning to pass legislation within the next 3 months or so to incorporate POK in Pak. Perhaps we need a thread on Incorporating POK in India...
Guddu Ji :

POK is heavily populated with Potoharis - I believe they are Muslims form North Terroristani Punjab - and it is better that Terroristan incorporates POK and then India can settle down and live in Peace, as Jammu and Kashmir and Ladakh will become a Legal Part on India - No Ifs and No Buts about it!

What are your views?

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Re: Terroristan - November 11, 2019

Postby Gerard » 02 Jan 2020 03:10

VKumar wrote:There is a resolution in parliament, about 25 years ago saying that Pak occupied Kashmir, GB, are integral part of India. There are vacant seats in Assembly and Parliament awaiting the representatives of these occupied territories.


There is even a 2017 British parliament resolution on this

https://www.governancenow.com/news/regu ... tbaltistan

Here are five highlights of the resolution that was passed by the British parliament over Gilgit-Baltistan in Pakistan.

Read: Resolution in British parliament

That this House condemns the arbitrary announcement by Pakistan declaring Gilgit-Baltistan as its Fifth Frontier, implying its attempt to annex the already disputed area.

Notes that Gilgit-Baltistan is a legal and constitutional part of the state of Jammu and Kashmir, India.

It is illegally occupied by Pakistan since 1947, and where people are denied their fundamental rights including the right of freedom of expression.

Notes the attempts to change the demography of the region in violation of State Subject Ordinance.

Forcibly and illegally building the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor, which further aggravates and interferes with the disputed territory.

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Re: Terroristan - November 11, 2019

Postby Guddu » 02 Jan 2020 03:12

What you say might have been a reasonable option if the govt was unsupportive and the legal case was not in our favor. The Modi govt and Parliament have said that POK is a part of India. They have repeatedly said that, so there is likely a plan and something will be done. I am not too worried about settlers in POK, they can be driven out or offered Indian citizenship (which they will all prefer). The question is how do we capture back such a huge territory. We will have to literally have captured Islamabad and Pindi, abrogate the IWT and then exchange that for POK. I dont think we will send tanks in POK..even though some may think thats logical since it is disputed territory.

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Terroristan - November 11, 2019

Postby Peregrine » 02 Jan 2020 06:32

Qamar (Waist] Bajwa gets his Extension!

Govt takes the SC route on COAS extension - Rizwan Ghilzai / Saqib Virk

ISLAMABAD: Over a month after the apex court in a cliffhanger verdict allowed Gen Qamar Javed Bajwa to carry on as the army chief for six months until the government legislated and removed the legal lacunae in his reappointment or extension, the federal cabinet in an unexpected meeting on Wednesday approved amendments to the Army Act, pushing the age of retirement for all three services chief to 64 years.

The government’s move has caught many by surprise as only a few days ago it had challenged the Supreme Court’s judgment maintaining that there were “legal and constitutional faults” in it.

In a sudden shift of approach, the cabinet meeting, presided over by Prime Minister Imran Khan, approved the draft of an amendment bill, which proposed changes to Section 172 of the Army Act 1952.

Speaking to the media, Defence Minister Pervez Khattak confirmed that the cabinet had unanimously approved the amendments to the law.

The bill defines the service period of the army, air and naval chiefs and the chairman joint chiefs of staff committee (CJCSC) and lays out the procedure for an extension in their services.

According to sources, it has been suggested that the tenure of the CJCSC be extended by three years. The president will be able to extend the tenure of any service chief by three years on the advice of the prime minister.

The government has decided to table the bill in parliament on Friday (tomorrow) after taking the opposition on board.

The government formed a committee comprising Khattak, PTI MNA Amir Dogar, Federal Parliamentary Affairs Minister Azam Swati and Minister of State for Parliamentary Affairs Ali Muhammad Khan to hold consultations with the opposition on the proposed legislation.

On November 26, the Supreme Court headed by then-CJP Asif Saeed Khosa had suspended the government’s notification of Gen Qamar’s extension until November 2022 citing procedural loopholes.

PM Imran had recommended a three-year extension in the tenure of COAS Gen Qamar citing a worsening security situation in the region over its rivalry with India.

On November 28, after tumultuous three days of gruelling court proceedings and clerical gaffes and legal lacunae, [u]the apex court granted a temporary six-month extension to Gen Qamar’s tenure, which was due to end at midnight on the same day, with the direction that the government must pass legislation through parliament in that time to clarify the section of Constitution governing the armed forces.

The Supreme Court cited a series of irregularities and ordered the government and the army to produce legal provisions and detailed arguments on the reasoning behind the extension.

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Re: Terroristan - November 11, 2019

Postby Vips » 02 Jan 2020 08:07

So now generals will be army chiefs till 64 years of age and then someone will ask for want an extension and the whole circus will start again and the Imran of the day will have another rule change extending the retirement age to 67 years :rotfl:

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Re: Terroristan - November 11, 2019

Postby Vikas » 02 Jan 2020 10:27

Most of the Paki COAS these days don't leave before getting 3 years of extension. Since Mushy, They just had 4 COAS and it has been over 20 years so practically each chief had 5+ years and current one will go on for 3 more years.
Whosoever grabs the throne of Chief can enjoy the reign as de-facto ruler for 6 years with added bonus of conducting a coup anytime he wants. Soon it may become like Roman empire where victorious general would usurp the throne.
I wonder if there is any resentment at Crore Commander level as the glass ceiling just became concrete ceiling.

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Re: Terroristan - November 11, 2019

Postby manjgu » 02 Jan 2020 13:03

"victorious" general !!! victory over whom ??

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Re: Terroristan - November 11, 2019

Postby Manish_P » 02 Jan 2020 13:23

Vikas wrote:...
I wonder if there is any resentment at Crore Commander level as the glass ceiling just became concrete ceiling.


Resentment over Pak army chief's extension

As many as 17 three star generals will retire before General Bajwa hangs his boots, says Rana Banerji, who headed the Pakistan desk at the Research and Analysis Wing, India's external intelligence agency.

The army currently has some 177 generals in fighting arms (this does not include the doctors and engineers and other technical services). Two are four-star generals, some 27 three-star generals, of whom corps commanders and principal staff officers are the key advisors to the chief.

Another 148 are two-star major generals. Some of those would have moved up a notch if the chief had retired on time. Some 43 of these major generals have already been superseded. They will go home regardless.


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Re: Terroristan - November 11, 2019

Postby Vikas » 02 Jan 2020 13:28

manjgu wrote:"victorious" general !!! victory over whom ??


Victory in war with Politicians..
Victory in achieving target of selling Land
Victory in getting money from 3.5 4-fathers
Victory in killing few more in FATA
Victory in running transportation business
Victory in getting family settled in Western white country
Victory in Brown pant race

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Re: Terroristan - November 11, 2019

Postby souravB » 02 Jan 2020 15:16

Vikas wrote:

Janab, You have missed
--Victory in Textbooks
--Victory in Twitter

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Re: Terroristan - November 11, 2019

Postby Vikas » 02 Jan 2020 15:38

souravB wrote:
Vikas wrote:

Janab, You have missed
--Victory in Textbooks
--Victory in Twitter


Alhamdullillah!! You have captured the true spirit of Jehad :)

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Terroristan - November 11, 2019

Postby Peregrine » 02 Jan 2020 22:58

Anti-CAA protests: PM Modi dares opposition to speak against Pakistan; Congress responds with 'biryani' dig

NEW DELHI: Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Thursday hit out at the Congress for opposing Parliament and not speaking against Pakistan during the anti-CAA protests, evoking a sharp response from the opposition party.

Speaking at Sree Siddaganga Mutt in Karnataka's Tumakuru, PM Modi said: "Our government brought CAA, but Congress has opposed it. These people have started agitation against Constitution."

Strongly defending the CAA, PM said it was adopted by Parliament in a historic move, but the Congress and its allies and the ecosystem created by the rival parties were now against the very institution.

PM Modi also said the Congress and its allies do not speak against Pakistan but take out rallies against the refugees, who have been forced to come to India.

"Pakistan was founded on religious grounds due to which atrocities on minorities such as Hindus, Sikhs, Jains and Christians have increased. But Congress and its allies don't speak against Pakistan," he said.

The Congress responded to PM's charges on Twitter and said: "Modiji this agitation is not against Parliament, but to oppose your divisive actions. We will not let you divide the country."

Countering the PM's charges on opposition parties not protesting against Pakistan, the Congress said: "Pakistan is yet to emerge from the wounds inflicted by India in 1948, 1965, 1971 and in Kargil. If you are really keen to give a reply to Pakistan, stop the game of biryani and mangoes." The wounds were inflicted by the Brave Indian Defence Forces – Not by the Congress.

All Four Wars were Declared by Pakistan and Pakistan Lost all Four War

1. Air Marshal Asghar Khan Exposes Pakistan From 1947 to 1999 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCI3PGzFRsQ



2. Pakistan lost ALL 4 wars against India : Mr. Najam Sethi : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybioqLp7EVo



Earlier, speaking at the rally, PM Modi pointed out that the efforts of his government were directed at protecting the Dalits and tribals in Pakistan.

He said India cannot leave the Hindus, Christians and Sikhs apparently fleeing Pakistan to "their fate" and added it was the country's responsibility to protect them.

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Re: Terroristan - November 11, 2019

Postby CalvinH » 03 Jan 2020 02:55

Vikas wrote:Most of the Paki COAS these days don't leave before getting 3 years of extension. Since Mushy, They just had 4 COAS and it has been over 20 years so practically each chief had 5+ years and current one will go on for 3 more years.
Whosoever grabs the throne of Chief can enjoy the reign as de-facto ruler for 6 years with added bonus of conducting a coup anytime he wants. Soon it may become like Roman empire where victorious general would usurp the throne.
I wonder if there is any resentment at Crore Commander level as the glass ceiling just became concrete ceiling.


I think that the resentment at core commander or lower level is exaggerated. The ecosystem takes care of them and other generals well and it would be more of a personal resentment than a systemic issue.
- COAS staying longer doesn't impact 2 star to 3 star promotions so resentment at 2 star general level is not material.
- COAS calls major shots with politicians and at foreign policy (and now economic front) level but most decisions are collaborative and discussed with core commanders. This is why the core commander conferences are frequent and are considered major event by media
- Core commanders are kept happy with doles and other benefits including post retirement jobs at different places. The job distribution starts at 1 star level and creates a loyal and satisfied base.
- All ahem ahem activities of core commanders are overlooked including properties owned outside the country.

The good side of COAS extending their tenure is that COAS will have to continue to enhance the ecosystem provided to faujis and ex-faujis in return, which will consolidate the hold of this ecosystem on everything in Pakistan. In future no COAS can dare undo some of the facilities provided to the ecosystem and will have to provide more facilities to keep the ecosystem happy . This will continue to increase the economic and power divide between masses and faujis.

In future we may see a lower general doing a coup on a senior general. But this would be more at a personal level.

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Re: Terroristan - November 11, 2019

Postby Gerard » 03 Jan 2020 03:10

THOSE PERSONS DESCRIBED IN PARAGRAPH A BELOW ARE ADVISED TO EXERCISE CAUTION WHEN FLYING INTO, OUT OF, WITHIN, OR OVER THE TERRITORY AND AIRSPACE OF PAKISTAN DUE TO EXTREMIST/MILITANT ACTIVITY.

C. OPERATIONS. EXERCISE CAUTION DURING FLIGHT OPERATIONS. THERE IS A RISK TO U.S. CIVIL AVIATION OPERATING IN THE TERRITORY AND AIRSPACE OF PAKISTAN DUE TO EXTREMIST/MILITANT ACTIVITY. THERE CONTINUES TO BE A RISK TO U.S. CIVIL AVIATION FROM ATTACKS AGAINST AIRPORTS AND AIRCRAFT, PARTICULARLY FOR AIRCRAFT ON THE GROUND AND AIRCRAFT OPERATING AT LOW ALTITUDES, INCLUDING DURING THE ARRIVAL AND DEPARTURE PHASES OF FLIGHT. THE ONGOING PRESENCE OF EXTREMIST/MILITANT ELEMENTS OPERATING IN PAKISTAN POSES A CONTINUED RISK TO U.S. CIVIL AVIATION FROM SMALL-ARMS FIRE, COMPLEX ATTACKS AGAINST AIRPORTS, INDIRECT WEAPONS FIRE, AND ANTI-AIRCRAFT FIRE, ANY OF WHICH COULD OCCUR WITH LITTLE OR NO WARNING. WHILE, TO DATE, THERE HAVE BEEN NO REPORTS OF MAN- PORTABLE AIR DEFENSE SYSTEMS (MANPADS) BEING USED AGAINST CIVIL AVIATION IN PAKISTAN, SOME EXTREMIST/MILITANT GROUPS OPERATING IN PAKISTAN ARE SUSPECTED OF HAVING ACCESS TO MANPADS. AS A RESULT, THERE IS A POTENTIAL RISK FOR EXTREMISTS/MILITANTS TO TARGET CIVIL AVIATION IN PAKISTAN WITH MANPADS. THOSE PERSONS DESCRIBED IN PARAGRAPH A MUST REPORT SAFETY AND/OR SECURITY INCIDENTS TO THE FAA AT +1 202-267-3333.


https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publica ... kistan.pdf

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Re: Terroristan - November 11, 2019

Postby Vips » 03 Jan 2020 04:09

CalvinH wrote:
I think that the resentment at core commander or lower level is exaggerated. The ecosystem takes care of them and other generals well and it would be more of a personal resentment than a systemic issue.


Not true for the first part and correct for the second. I remember distinctly when Kayani was given his extension there was a lot of disquiet and rumblings for the loss of promotion chances by the next in command lot of officers and to assuage them there was major allocation of land holdings to all the officers upto Brigadier level.

If now every Army chief in pakistan were to ask for extension and stay in charge upto the age of 67 years (which will no doubt happen), while his juniors have to retire at 60 Years then there will be a major addition in the number of officers getting affected by it.

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Re: Terroristan - November 11, 2019

Postby g.sarkar » 03 Jan 2020 14:25

https://www.dawn.com/news/1526027/more-threats
More threats
Editorial, January 03, 2020

ANYONE who thought that a change of command in the Indian army would lead to fewer threats emanating from across the border should think again.
Taking a cue from his bellicose predecessor, India’s new army chief Lt Gen M.M. Naravane has said that conducting pre-emptive strikes across the LoC remained an option for India.
Pakistan’s Foreign Office has given the right response: “There should be no doubt about Pakistan’s resolve and readiness to thwart any aggressive Indian move inside its territory of AJ&K. No one should forget Pakistan’s befitting response to India’s Balakot misadventure.”
The previous army chief Bipin Rawat, now elevated to the post of chief of defence staff, had made a habit of issuing threatening statements against Pakistan that smacked of political posturing more than anything substantive. Much of this belligerence had led India into the Balakot misadventure with disastrous results both militarily and politically. Clearly, New Delhi has learnt no lessons.
......
Gautam

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Re: Terroristan - November 11, 2019

Postby SBajwa » 03 Jan 2020 21:16

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/dsgmc ... ahib-20998


Delhi Sikh Gurdwara Management Committee (DSGMC) President Manjinder Singh Sirsa on Friday condemned an alleged mob attack on Gurdwara Nankana Sahib.

In a statement he issued on Friday evening, Sirsa said a mob led by Mohammad Hassan, a person who has been accused of allegedly “abducting” a Sikh woman, Jagjit Kaur, the daughter of a Granthi at Gurdwara Nankana Sahib, tried to break down the gurdwara gate.

He also claimed Hassan had addressed a gathering before the attack saying they would not allow Sikhs to reside at Nankana Sahib—a shrine that Sikhs consider holy because it is the birthplace of their first guru, Guru Nanak—and even threatened to rename the holy city as Ghulam Ali Mustafa.

Sirsa asked Pakistan Prime Minister Imran Khan to take firm action in the case, and also said that he would take up the issue at the United Nations.

Sirsa also urged Prime Minister Narendra Modi to take strong note of the incident, a video of which has since been viral

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Re: Terroristan - November 11, 2019

Postby ArjunPandit » 03 Jan 2020 21:50

papistan is digging its own grave..with this coming out..hope that sane ones would realize what their brothers have to endure across the border..and their ancestors endured and sacrificed their lives for..
just for a second imagine sikh millitancy along with balochistan and other insurgencies..

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Re: Terroristan - November 11, 2019

Postby Shaktimaan » 03 Jan 2020 21:56

Pakis tried to use Nankana Saheb to drive a wedge between India and the Sikh community. But Pakis being Pakis, they could not keep their jihadi tendencies in check for more than a few days.

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Re: Terroristan - November 11, 2019

Postby Vikas » 03 Jan 2020 22:13

SBajwa wrote:https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/dsgmc-condemns-mob-attack-on-gurdwara-nankana-sahib-20998

Delhi Sikh Gurdwara Management Committee (DSGMC) President Manjinder Singh Sirsa on Friday condemned an alleged mob attack on Gurdwara Nankana Sahib.


Why Tribune thinks that this is an alleged attack ?
It is the civilizational fear of Sikhs in Punjabi - Pathan Muslim psyche that prevents them from overrunning Gurudwars in Pakhistan.

Meanwhile pressure tactics work..From Dawn,
In the evening, successful talks were held between the protesters and the PTI Nankana Sahib president Pir Sarwar Shah. Police subsequently released all arrested persons, following which the protesters ended their protest and dispersed from the site.
https://twitter.com/ShirazHassan/status ... 3173657603


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Re: Terroristan - November 11, 2019

Postby ArjunPandit » 03 Jan 2020 22:19

Vikas wrote:
SBajwa wrote:https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/dsgmc-condemns-mob-attack-on-gurdwara-nankana-sahib-20998

Delhi Sikh Gurdwara Management Committee (DSGMC) President Manjinder Singh Sirsa on Friday condemned an alleged mob attack on Gurdwara Nankana Sahib.


Why Tribune thinks that this is an alleged attack ?
It is the civilizational fear of Sikhs in Punjabi - Pathan Muslim psyche that prevents them from overrunning Gurudwars in Pakhistan.

that fear is well deserved
Image
their biggest defeat came at the hand of a hindu army led by a parsi (Sam bahadur was parsi IIRC) led by JS Aurora on that front. Even their western front plans were laid to rest by KS Chandpuri and company in Longewala with wing co bawa..perhaps only defeats by israel come close to their civilization when a puny nation defeated all major arab/islamic armies....

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Re: Terroristan - November 11, 2019

Postby Vikas » 03 Jan 2020 22:41

ArjunPandit wrote:
Vikas wrote:It is the civilizational fear of Sikhs in Punjabi - Pathan Muslim psyche that prevents them from overrunning Gurudwars in Pakhistan.

that fear is well deserved

their biggest defeat came at the hand of a hindu army led by a parsi (Sam bahadur was parsi IIRC) led by JS Aurora on that front. Even their western front plans were laid to rest by KS Chandpuri and company in Longewala with wing co bawa..perhaps only defeats by israel come close to their civilization when a puny nation defeated all major arab/islamic armies....


You missed Gen Jacob, a Yahudi by religion.

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Re: Terroristan - November 11, 2019

Postby ArjunPandit » 03 Jan 2020 22:44

^^oh yes..that reminds me of jesus is fighting for indian army in battle of assal uttar

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Terroristan - November 11, 2019

Postby Peregrine » 04 Jan 2020 02:30

^^^^^Arjun Pandit Ji and Vikas Ji

A Tribute to Lieut. General J. F. R. Jacobs :

1. Ep. 12: Documentary - Lt General JFR Jacob: The Indian JEWel!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMQct8-w170



2. We were about 3000, Pakistan Army were 26,000...our victory was a miracle: Lt Gen(Retd) Jacob

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_uD_OVQ-Lo



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Re: Terroristan - November 11, 2019

Postby ArjunPandit » 04 Jan 2020 04:38

https://www.facebook.com/ACEofPAF/videos/847386552275659/
Folks came across this on FB, compared to what iaf has done with drab press conferences... I'll give it to them for making such decent quality videos

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Re: Terroristan - November 11, 2019

Postby Gerard » 04 Jan 2020 04:59

Easy to do with the budget they have. The ISPR is headed by a Maj. General. It is very well funded, and finances movies, songs, tv shows. It basically controls Pakistani media now. A well oiled propaganda machine, it even recruits students to post on twitter with Fauji foundation jobs and contracts to the most effective.

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Re: Terroristan - November 11, 2019

Postby Atmavik » 04 Jan 2020 09:28

Gerard wrote:Easy to do with the budget they have. The ISPR is headed by a Maj. General. It is very well funded, and finances movies, songs, tv shows. It basically controls Pakistani media now. A well oiled propaganda machine, it even recruits students to post on twitter with Fauji foundation jobs and contracts to the most effective.


with all that funding the should by spell check software

https://twitter.com/nailainayat?ref_src ... r%5Eauthor

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Re: Terroristan - November 11, 2019

Postby mmasand » 04 Jan 2020 09:55

US State Dept : To strengthen mil2mil cooperation on shared priorities & advance US national security, @POTUS authorized the resumption of International Military Education and Training #IMET for Pakistan. The overall security assistance suspension for Pakistan remains in effect.

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Re: Terroristan - November 11, 2019

Postby Rsatchi » 04 Jan 2020 16:43

https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... n-6199049/
Scanned all Napak english dailes
No mention of Nankhana Sahib attack in any paper!!! :eek:
All about indian police brutality against pissfuls, Anti-CAA strike, SMQ castigating india for not giving viza for pissfuls for some urs!! (which I presume is un-pissful as per 3.5 4-fathers! :lol: :lol: )

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Terroristan - November 11, 2019

Postby Peregrine » 04 Jan 2020 18:15

X Posted on the P E S W Thread

Image

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Re: Terroristan - November 11, 2019

Postby sanjaykumar » 04 Jan 2020 19:56

The proposed name change of Nankana Sahib was given as ghulam e mustafa.

This means to refer to Guru Nanak as a slave of the prophet. Indians can draw their own conclusions.

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Re: Terroristan - November 11, 2019

Postby pankajs » 04 Jan 2020 22:39

Embedded video .. 100+ Bakis soldiers killed by BLA

https://twitter.com/bababanaras/status/ ... 1779806208
अर्ध-सन्यासी (Half Hermit) @bababanaras

After killing of 136 Pak soldiers by BRA, @OfficialDGISPR has a golden opportunity to add the name of all soldiers who killed along LoC in this list.Thus the sales of cornflakes will not fall and killed soldiers also will get respect.
2 target with 1 bullet.

Retweet if Agreed

Ashokk
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Re: Terroristan - November 11, 2019

Postby Ashokk » 04 Jan 2020 22:54

'If Iranian general can be droned for terrorism, why not a Pakistani general?'
Indeed, the assassination of general Suleimani opened a can of worms for the Trump administration with some Af-Pak experts asking why Washington should not target Pakistani generals who have a more established record of backing and carrying out terrorist attacks.
"Important point: why aren’t the Americans confronting the Taliban masters in Pakistan in a similar manner? The Taliban and their masters in Rawalpindi are responsible for the killing of 3500 US servicemen in Afghanistan," asked Saad Mohseni, a prominent Afghan entrepreneur.

Peregrine
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Terroristan - November 11, 2019

Postby Peregrine » 04 Jan 2020 23:04

Image

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CalvinH
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Re: Terroristan - November 11, 2019

Postby CalvinH » 04 Jan 2020 23:07

ArjunPandit wrote:https://www.facebook.com/ACEofPAF/videos/847386552275659/
Folks came across this on FB, compared to what iaf has done with drab press conferences... I'll give it to them for making such decent quality videos


Its a scene from a movie, not a video made by PAF.

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Re: Terroristan - November 11, 2019

Postby CalvinH » 04 Jan 2020 23:20

Gerard wrote:Easy to do with the budget they have. The ISPR is headed by a Maj. General. It is very well funded, and finances movies, songs, tv shows. It basically controls Pakistani media now. A well oiled propaganda machine, it even recruits students to post on twitter with Fauji foundation jobs and contracts to the most effective.


Well said. Its currently headed by a Maj Gen but it was previously headed by a Lt. Gen so its sanctioned for Lt. General rank. Gafoor will get his promotion soon. It remained under a Brig for a long time but since then Pak Army is investing significantly in it for winning the 10th generation warfare (or was it 7th generation warfare). A Social Media management company would be the next IT company from Fauji Foundation.

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Terroristan - November 11, 2019

Postby Peregrine » 05 Jan 2020 00:29

Strategy and sacrifice

The worst example of poor planning and execution comes from Kargil, writes Irfan Husain

It often takes a generation to change the strategic thinking of the military, much as it takes miles for a large cargo ship to alter course.

Consider the case of France’s top army leadership during the period 1870-1939. They fought three wars against Germany, all of which France lost before being bailed out by its allies in the First and Second World Wars. In each conflict, the French changed their defence strategy to counter innovations the Germans had introduced in the previous one. Each time, the Germans countered by switching plans again, wrong-footing their adversaries once more.

And each time, it was the young officers and troops who paid with their lives and limbs. This myopia among the top brass has cost the world much in blood and treasure, and yet the slaughter goes on. Of course the fog of war has served as an excuse for poor leadership throughout military history, but there are factors that could have been taken into account. This hubris and a refusal to learn has caused generations of brave young men to be killed.

Musharraf, on being appointed by Nawaz Sharif in 1998, began secretly looking at the possibilities of a bold, covert sally across the Line of Control

Our own brass has little to be proud of – having lost every conflict they have been involved in. After each defeat, they have blamed politicians for their multiple failings, while ignoring the most basic tactical and strategic missteps. For example, take the launch of an armoured strike by our newly acquired Patton tanks near Sialkot during the 1965 war. The Indians simply cut the canals in the area, thereby flooding the battlefield and causing our tanks to get completely stuck. You could almost hear our generals grumbling that this tactic wasn’t very sporting of the Indians.

But the worst example of poor planning and execution comes from Kargil, a conflict that caused more casualties than the 1965 and 1971 wars put together. General Musharraf, the architect of this harebrained operation, prided himself as a strategist. However, grand strategy does not demand just an awareness of the immediate battlefield, but a grasp of the global environment. Basically, the top commanders need to understand the decision-making processes and possible reactions in key world capitals. Above all, they need to be on the same page as their military colleagues and their political masters.

In the case of the Kargil conflict, as Nasim Zehra shows us in her brilliantly researched book From Kargil to the Coup: Events that Shook Pakistan, none of these basic preconditions were in place. This book should be required reading for all those who want to learn how and why we went to war, and perhaps more importantly, about the poisonous effects of the constant friction between the military and civilian leadership.

The Kargil operation was aimed primarily to cut the Indian supply route to the Siachen Glacier. But a subplot here was the search for vengeance for India grabbing the glacier in the first place. And then, of course, there was the desire to force India to negotiate a settlement to solve the Kashmir issue once and for all.

This high-risk, high-return operation had been put into cold storage earlier. But Musharraf, on being appointed by Nawaz Sharif in 1998, began secretly looking at the possibilities of a bold, covert sally across the Line of Control in the Drass region offered.

The fiction used as cover throughout the operation was that the intruders were freedom fighters over whom Pakistan had little control. The reality was that apart from being untrained in high-altitude operations, the Mujahideen were too undisciplined to sustain a long, arduous campaign at over 14,000 feet on some of the most inhospitable terrain in the world. The solution was to send in jawans of the Northern Light Infantry, and pretend they were freedom fighters. One result of this deceit was that for some time after the operation ended, Pakistan refused to accept the bodies of our martyred troops, causing great distress and anger among relatives and survivors.

When Bill Clinton imposed a pullout of our forces, fury in army messes and barracks exploded, and there was almost a mutiny against the top brass as well as the political leadership. Although Musharraf had given Sharif his “professional guarantee” that the operation could not possibly fail, it was now the PM who was facing the wrath of the opposition, the media and the military for selling out the victorious ‘Mujahideen.’

Musharraf and his co-plotters were sitting pretty, passing the blame to the elected government as earlier generals have done every time they have been defeated. The endgame resulted in Nawaz Sharif’s ouster. The military had won out – again – while politicians were taught not to mess with the establishment.

Neither Sharif nor Musharraf emerge well from this account: the former comes across as somebody with a limited attention span, easily amenable to flattery. The army chief appears to be shallow, and incapable of acknowledging his blunders. With this combination, it is small wonder that Kargil was such a disaster.
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Re: Terroristan - November 11, 2019

Postby nam » 05 Jan 2020 03:55

Pak's ops had one specific assumption. That is we will limit our response to J&K. 1965 & Kargil, this assumption was applied.

Interestingly enough Feb 27, showed to Pak that we really intend to control escalation. This has laid grounds for another round of assumption by Pak.

There will be another miscalculation by Pak. They will assume air action will be limited to J&K AND India is hesitant to cross in to PoK.

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Re: Terroristan - November 11, 2019

Postby Anujan » 05 Jan 2020 04:22

Two comments

First of all when Mushy has his back to the wall (remember for whatever reason Paki court has sentenced Mushy to death for treason), all these people crawl out of the woodwork and claim Mushy was all bad.

Secondly, what is striking is that Pakistan has repeatedly miscalculated India's response. First it was "once nice blow to hindus and they will run away from battlefield" in 65. Then it was 1 Paki == 8 SDREs in 71. And then there was an assumption that they occupy Indian territory and India will keep quiet in Kargil. And then it was terror attacks with impunity with the assumption that India will not retaliate because Pakis have Nukes.

Slowly but surely the elephant lurches forward, showing all assumptions by Pakis are wrong.


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